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Method
QUOTE
"During this camp I spent a lot more personal time talking with him than I did before. A lot of personal time and he told me something which I never knew. He said during his training for the last two Bernard Hopkins fights his trainer had him going 15 rounds. I said “ What!?” He said they went 15 rounds sometimes with 5 different sparring partners. So what happened, that’s where he got the bad habits. He’d go five rounds hard and the bell would ring and he’d be like ”oh goddamn. I got 10 more rounds to go and 4 more sparring partners.” He’s tired. So you know what happens? You’re looking at the clock. You fight in spots. You go to the corners you rest. You understand?"

"He said that’s where he got into the habit. I said, I never understood. I always wondered how he started out such a consistent, move forward fighter. And then all of sudden, you fight t in spurts and then you rest. Not on the ropes but in the corners where it is more comfortable."-- Manny Steward


Does this guy EVER take ANY kind of responsibility? Blaming Pat Burns for Jermain's bad habits...in fights that, agreeable or not, JT got "W's" in?

I hate this guy.
Spyder
Allegedly, Manny also pocketed money raised to save the Kronk Gym.
Tha Docta
i wondered about that. there were all these people giving money to the gym to keep it open and then it just closed anyway.

its pretty obvious that manny is a highly paid cheerleader at this point. ive seen zero improvement in jermain since manny took over.
buford54
Manny's found a formula that works at this point in his career.
He gets abnormally tall fighters and teaches them a 1-2 grab.
When they face someone taller than them, they are either sol...or they hope that the guys crack easily (Michael Grant against Lewis).
pastor method
to play devil's advocate...

taylor seems worse than before because he's fighting world champions, not the william joppy's and nicholas cervera's of the world.

manny steward worked wonders for lennox (and he was not SOL every time he fought someone taller, that's ridiculous considering how he's unbeaten against fighters taller/as tall as him). if you think lennox just 1-2 grabbed, then watch him rip uppercuts and go body-head in combinations against ray mercer and box circles around rahman with his hands and feet in the rematch.

more recently, manny steward has made a HUGE difference for kermit cintron. the improvement hasn't been apparent in jermaine, but like i said, he's been fighting world champions, a blazing fast defensive wizard, a non-stop buzz saw punching machine, and of course, one all time great hall of famer.

and finally, method, whether you like it or not, taylor got those Ws against hopkins. in my opinion, the second fight was a draw. but i still am baffled at how people score the first fight for hopkins. he did NOTHING for the first 8 rounds, then he clearly won all of the last 4. that's a 116-112 fight for taylor every time i watch it.

manny steward says some dumb things in broadcasts on hbo and often re-negs comments and comes off as an idiot. but he's still one of the best trainers in the world, and has been for decades.

taylor is sort of an conundrum to me. the fact that he beat hopkins is amazing to me considering how bad he's looked since. but the fact remains that he DID beat hopkins and has edged out (in lacklustre fashion) some good fighters since then. while never looking any where near HOF calibre in big fights, he's still only lost one of them, and that was a heck of a fight.
Mean Mister Mustard
You know Method, I didn't agree with you before on your views that Manny is overrated and an asshole. But lately I've been seeing what you are talking about.

I was re-watching JMM-MAB theother day, I think it was that fight. Anyway in the first rounds MAB looked insanely quick and the broadcast team were admiring this newfound speed that MAB had. Then Steward said "He's very quick and boxing beautifully, he has even surprised me"

As if he's THE guy to impress and that you're not good unless Steward says so. I just thought it was interesting he said that.
Method
QUOTE
and finally, method, whether you like it or not, taylor got those Ws against hopkins. -- Pastor Method


Uhhhhh....I believe my comment specifically was, "Blaming Pat Burns for Jermain's bad habits...in fights that, agreeable or not, JT got "W's" in?"

Why you turning it around and throwing back at me?
BrutalBodyShots
I still want Manny "goin' down the stretch" Steward to define what the stretch is.

At first I thought it was the last few rounds of the fight, because 30 seconds into the first round he talks about "if the fight keeps going the way it's going goin' down the stretch such and such will happen" but then in the 11th round of a recent fight he said the same thing... and at that point I thought we were IN the stretch. Maybe the stretch is the last 30 seconds of the 12th round, and Manny is speculating 30 seconds into a fight what the last 30 seconds will look like?
pastor method
i was simply pointing out that it's obvious (given you're a huge b-hop fan) that you don't like it that taylor got those wins. and since taylor got those wins, maybe manny steward isn't as bad as you're saying he is, especially considering taylor has never looked like a complete boxer or athletic phenom who can do it all on his own.

i don't even necessarily agree with it, but like i said, just presenting the other side.
moscow bear
I agree that he has a tendency to blame his own fighters ex-post. But he did admit the fact that HE had underestimated Pavlik's speed and skills.
WolfishPromistah
Whatever happens, Jermaine should be training "right now." Fawk that! This is the truest chance to fight THE fight of his life.

One minute, please, 'cause I'm goin' "astro" again.

Taylor = Leonian HORSE

Pavlik = Aries DOG

They're what I called mixed opposites, which means they are almost identical, except it's where the opposite astrologies (western and chinese) are equal by crossing one with the other -- opposed to if the opposition is direct (say, western against western -- in example, a Taurus against a Scorpio). Unlike what is seen normally, however, in their case the like-Aquarius -- DOG is up against its pseudo-opposite -- Leo.

Remember, this is all because of placement of signs on the astro wheel.

So that means, too, that Pavlik, as the Aries DOG, is up against his opposite in the HORSE, which is like-Libra; and of course Jermaine is -- again -- the Leo HORSE. Extremely well-matched, just as applies to Mayweather and Mosely. Either guy CAN win, but what's most important is we're guaranteed a good fight every time 'cause they are not gonna fail at bringing it to one another each and every time. Expect to enjoy the next fight as well.

But yeah, you'd best believe that Manny is still pointing fingers. What do we expect, when it's gonna be about reputation? He's gotta try and make himself look good so he can keep folks thinking he's the great trainer he's been touted as by many, like if anybody knows he would. He's is most likely just trying to look out for what may be his best intererests -- money and acclaim.
Method
QUOTE
i was simply pointing out that it's obvious (given you're a huge b-hop fan) that you don't like it that taylor got those wins. and since taylor got those wins, maybe manny steward isn't as bad as you're saying he is, especially considering taylor has never looked like a complete boxer or athletic phenom who can do it all on his own.


Dude, I said, like it or not, Taylor got the "W's", and then you come and and say, "Method, like it or not, Taylor got the "W's". What's your fucking point? Further more, You say, "Since Taylor got those W's against Hopkins, maybe Manny isn't as bad as you say he is". To that I respond, WHAT THE FUCK DOES MANNY HAVE TO DO WITH TAYLOR'S WINS OVER HOPKINS? He now blames Pat Burns for prepping Taylor the wrong way against Hopkins as being where all the flaws are coming from, yet, Taylor has looked the WORST under Steward's tuteledge.

I have no problem whatsoever with you trying to play the other side of the argument, but please know what the fuck it is you are saying.
Chi-Town
I think that Emmanuel is more of a strategic trainer than a developmental trainer. By and large I think that Manny has been giving him good advice in the corner and Jremain's stamina has been better under Steward. The problem is that Jermain was never taken out of the habit of keeping his hands low and generally has no defesive skills to speak of...both of which go back waaay before Steward. Second, as i said before, I think he gets solid advice, but has just ignored it in many instances.
Spyder
Honestly, I think that Taylor looked better in this last fight with Pavlik than he has since the Daniel Edouard fight. He came out like a man on a mission, hurt Pavlik early, and was putting his punches together. He was pumping his jab more than he had in his past few fights, and he looked good doing it. I don't blame him for this last defeat.

The only thing that I think he truly fucked up with was finishing Kelly when he had him hurt. He got excited and went head hunting with ridiculous disregard, rather than playing it cool and going to the body. Other than that, I think that Kelly was just too much for him. Too much power, too many punches, and too much heart. Taylor was well prepared, and in great shape. Both of which are a testament to the work he did with Manny in the Pocono's.

You can't blame this last fight on Manny.
Spyder
QUOTE(Fitz @ Oct 24 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]362226[/snapback]
I'm not sure he looked better, but he came out with the best attitude he has had in a while. Technically, he still did some horrible things.

That's par for the course with him though. He's always been technically flawed, but when he comes in with that attitude, it almost conceals the deficiencies in his defense. Shit, he could've had Kelly out of there in two!!

People would be singing a different tune if he was able to finish. I just think that he's on the right track, and has stopped taking steps backward, which is a wierd thing to say after a loss. But, the way he fought this last one showed signs of potential dominance. Signs that we haven't seen from him in a while.
BrutalBodyShots
Pavlik wouldn't be a hard guy to look good against if Taylor fought the fight fight, and at times he was able to do that. Against certain fighters like Hopkins for example, even in a winning (questionable) effort Taylor didn't look "good."
Lil-lightsout
I have come to the conclusion the Taylor is just not as good as he was marketed to be, regardless who trained him in the past or who trains him now. He has made zero progression coming off his two questionable wins against B-Hop. Sub-Par performances against Ouma, Wright, Spinks, and then getiing KO'd by Pavlik, maybe Jermaine was finally exposed. I do not think he will ever be a force in the Super middleweight division either. I think he was an overhyped fighter and was also a protected champion, and in the near future he will be KO'd again.
MarzB
I'm born and raised in Detroit and I not only totally agree with this thread but I think Manny is the most overrated,glorified trainer there is..

All he wants to do is take what someone else build and add a tweak here or there and then he gets all the credit for damn near developing the fighter. Did I forget to mention how it's like he has a lust strictly for tall, lanky fighters?? I wouldn't be surprised if he put a bug into Pavlik's ear during the announcement of the winner in the last fight.

buford54
QUOTE(pastor method @ Oct 23 2007, 06:30 PM) [snapback]362132[/snapback]
to play devil's advocate...

taylor seems worse than before because he's fighting world champions, not the william joppy's and nicholas cervera's of the world.

manny steward worked wonders for lennox (and he was not SOL every time he fought someone taller, that's ridiculous considering how he's unbeaten against fighters taller/as tall as him). if you think lennox just 1-2 grabbed, then watch him rip uppercuts and go body-head in combinations against ray mercer and box circles around rahman with his hands and feet in the rematch.

more recently, manny steward has made a HUGE difference for kermit cintron. the improvement hasn't been apparent in jermaine, but like i said, he's been fighting world champions, a blazing fast defensive wizard, a non-stop buzz saw punching machine, and of course, one all time great hall of famer.

and finally, method, whether you like it or not, taylor got those Ws against hopkins. in my opinion, the second fight was a draw. but i still am baffled at how people score the first fight for hopkins. he did NOTHING for the first 8 rounds, then he clearly won all of the last 4. that's a 116-112 fight for taylor every time i watch it.

manny steward says some dumb things in broadcasts on hbo and often re-negs comments and comes off as an idiot. but he's still one of the best trainers in the world, and has been for decades.

taylor is sort of an conundrum to me. the fact that he beat hopkins is amazing to me considering how bad he's looked since. but the fact remains that he DID beat hopkins and has edged out (in lacklustre fashion) some good fighters since then. while never looking any where near HOF calibre in big fights, he's still only lost one of them, and that was a heck of a fight.


I agree w/ what you said about Lewis. He was a cut above for sure and did have skill...as boring as he was. I guess what is frustrating is that Manny teaches fighters about grabbing for defensive purposes, and while it serves them well (Wlad/Peter), it takes away the excitement. Where Wlad almost always went for the kill before Manny, he fought a very timid fight against Peter. Byrd, he went all out against but that's because Byrd isn't going to knock anyone out.

I would never disrespect Manny...it just seems that he's found a formula at this point in his career...picking taller fighters in their divisions so that they automatically have the size/jab advantage...and it's a good formula. Teach a tall guy solid fundamentals, and he has natural advantages. Usually though, his formula for winning will be boring. Jab a lot....set up the big right, and tie the guy up when he tries to get inside. If you don't get the KO, you win a boring UD.
It works, but it's not fun to watch.

On another note, I'm beginning to think that Hopkins and Winky actually ruined Taylor. Manny even said that Hopkins showed that he was the better fighter in those fights.
Hopkins would let Taylor coast through rounds by not doing anything, but as soon as Hopkins would decide to fight, he would do whatever he wanted with Jermain. And while Jermain got the W's, I think he started to second guess himself. I think they took his confidence away.

He saw guys that he would land clean on, and they wouldn't budge. He would have the speed advantage, but they would slip/block his shots and come back with their own which would land.
He'd never seen that before. So that realization, coupled with the media talking about how over-hyped he had been, and how he had really lost those fights...had to have taken a toll on his self-confidence.














Big Slim Sweet
I find it ridiculous that people still criticize Taylor for getting two 'questionable' wins against Hopkins, or that he somehow looked 'subpar' fighting Winky Wright. When the fuck was the last time anyone looked better against either one of these two fighters than Taylor? Tito? Tarver? Oscar? Ike? Did Hopkins and Wright look good fighting each other? Shit, Roy Jones in his fucking prime didn't even look good fighting Hopkins. What's even more annoying is how all three fights have taken on this new mythology over the years, where people talk now like Taylor got his ass whipped all three times. The Wright fight in particular, because this was a fight in the immediate aftermath that most people thought was surprisingly entertaining and could have gone either way, but over time it's turned into this sluggish mismatch with Taylor in the role of Chavez to Winky's Sweet Pea.

All this backlash just because people don't like the sound of Jim Lampley's voice when he gets excited.
Chi-Town
I think that it is unfair to place the blame for this fight completely on Steward....however, it was obvious that Jermain wasn't properly prpared on what to do if he gets the other fighter hurt or what to do when he himself got hurt for that matter.
BrutalBodyShots
The general feeling amongst fans about Taylor/Wright before that fight was that Taylor would handle Wright. Wright was moving up and Taylor just picked up 24 rounds of experience over one of the best in the biz in Hopkins, "winning" the fights as well. Most everyone was picking Taylor to clearly beat Wright or possibly even stop him. In that respect having fought to a draw (where more people feel Winky won it than Taylor) Taylor clearly didn't meet the general expectations. He showed that he didn't learn much and had not progressed.

Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Oct 25 2007, 11:13 AM) [snapback]362312[/snapback]
The general feeling amongst fans about Taylor/Wright before that fight was that Taylor would handle Wright. Wright was moving up and Taylor just picked up 24 rounds of experience over one of the best in the biz in Hopkins, "winning" the fights as well. Most everyone was picking Taylor to clearly beat Wright or possibly even stop him. In that respect having fought to a draw (where more people feel Winky won it than Taylor) Taylor clearly didn't meet the general expectations. He showed that he didn't learn much and had not progressed.

Honestly I don't remember that being the general feeling leading up to that fight at all. Wright had been at 160 for over a year and had recently beaten Trinidad in an even more one-sided fashion than Hopkins had. I remember a pretty even debate going in on who would win the fight, a lot of people thinking Winky would make Jermaine look bad and even more so, a lot of people being surprised immediately afterwards at how easily JT was able to land on Wink. Again I really feel this fight has taken on a new mythology over time, and I believe it's directly related to Taylor subsequently not living up to the HBO hype machine.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Oct 25 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]362317[/snapback]
Honestly I don't remember that being the general feeling leading up to that fight at all. Wright had been at 160 for over a year and had recently beaten Trinidad in an even more one-sided fashion than Hopkins had. I remember a pretty even debate going in on who would win the fight, a lot of people thinking Winky would make Jermaine look bad and even more so, a lot of people being surprised immediately afterwards at how easily JT was able to land on Wink. Again I really feel this fight has taken on a new mythology over time, and I believe it's directly related to Taylor subsequently not living up to the HBO hype machine.


Wright had just had a very rough fight in his previous fight against Soliman while Taylor had come off of the Hopkins "wins." The general feeling as I remember it was that Taylor was too big and strong considering how Wright had just struggled with Soliman more than expected.

Also, do you really believe that Wright beat Trinidad in more one-sided fashion than Hopkins did? IMO both pitched a shutout with the other man ARGUABLY taking one round at best, but either way a 11-1 or 12-0 fight... only that Hopkins punctuated his performance with a final round stoppage. Winky was more consistent and made the fight look easy by landing his jab repeatidly while Hopkins simply landed an abundance of power shots over 12 rounds. I would say they both put on an equally dominant performance, just that Hopkins was able to punctuate his with a stoppage which to me makes it more impressive overall.

Big Slim Sweet
I do think Wright beat Trinidad in more one-sided fashion than Hopkins did, though I'll concede that probably had as much to do with Trinidad being willing to go through much more at the time he fought Hopkins than when he fought Winky. Hopkins certainly lay a beating on Tito that was a hell of a lot worse than anything Winky did, but overall, yes I'd say the fight with Wright was absolutely more one-sided.

To stick with the baseball analogy, both Hop and Wink pitched shutouts. Hopkins' was more dominant, like a 3-hitter with 2 walks and 13 strikeouts, whereas Winky's was like a one-hitter with no walks and four strikeouts, and throwing far fewer pitches in the process.
BrutalBodyShots
I guess they were two completely different performances, so it's really tough to make an argument comparing the two.

hardhead
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Oct 25 2007, 03:48 AM) [snapback]362266[/snapback]
I have come to the conclusion the Taylor is just not as good as he was marketed to be, regardless who trained him in the past or who trains him now. He has made zero progression coming off his two questionable wins against B-Hop. Sub-Par performances against Ouma, Wright, Spinks, and then getiing KO'd by Pavlik, maybe Jermaine was finally exposed. I do not think he will ever be a force in the Super middleweight division either. I think he was an overhyped fighter and was also a protected champion, and in the near future he will be KO'd again.



I'm thinking the same thing, and have been since a his last couple fights..
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Fitz @ Oct 25 2007, 09:29 PM) [snapback]362377[/snapback]
I like Hopkins win over Tito much more. I agree that the Winky fight was more one sided, but Winky took no risks. The Trinidad that Wright fought wasn't quite the same as the one Hopkins fought. Hopkins gave Tito a beating, was impressive and finished him in style. Winky took no chances, for the whole fucking fight all he did was use the 1,2 when he could have done so much more, he was too safe and didn't look nearly as impressive as Hopkins did IMO. Winky did it the easy and safe way, and kind of seen ways to beat Tito previously. Hopkins did things much better.
Though I agree, the Winky fight was more one sided, but he barely beat him up.


True. I didn't even factor in the fact that Hopkins' performance was against a 4 year closer to prime Trinidad.

Tha Docta
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Oct 24 2007, 11:48 PM) [snapback]362266[/snapback]
I have come to the conclusion the Taylor is just not as good as he was marketed to be, regardless who trained him in the past or who trains him now. He has made zero progression coming off his two questionable wins against B-Hop. Sub-Par performances against Ouma, Wright, Spinks, and then getiing KO'd by Pavlik, maybe Jermaine was finally exposed. I do not think he will ever be a force in the Super middleweight division either. I think he was an overhyped fighter and was also a protected champion, and in the near future he will be KO'd again.



i agree. i think jermaine can be exposed by just about any fighter that he does not hold a significant size advantage over. he was rather large for 160lbs and this helped him tremendously againsts hopkins and winky. pavlik just happens to be an even bigger middleweight.

i think jermaines move to 168 will officially end his career.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Oct 26 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]362414[/snapback]
i agree. i think jermaine can be exposed by just about any fighter that he does not hold a significant size advantage over. he was rather large for 160lbs and this helped him tremendously againsts hopkins and winky. pavlik just happens to be an even bigger middleweight.

i think jermaines move to 168 will officially end his career.


Taylor simply won't beat anyone that can punch. Generally speaking guys at 168 hit harder than guys at 160, so he's just going to have more problems taking punches if he decides to move to 168.

BigG
QUOTE
Taylor simply won't beat anyone that can punch.


Taylor can beat Pantera and Abraham..adn they CAN punch.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 26 2007, 11:28 AM) [snapback]362422[/snapback]
Taylor can beat Pantera and Abraham..adn they CAN punch.



personally, i wouldnt favor him to beat either of those guys.
Mean Mister Mustard
I'd pick him against Miranda. Abraham, not so sure.
jlupi
I think the pavlik fight was the best I have seen jermain. outside of that LOss he had def digressed under manny. I also don't agree at all about him having better stamina under manny.

He has tha athleticism to be a good boxer but somehow he has not learned any defense and his only chance of getting out of a corner is with overhand rights.
The CEO
Hair Helmet is on my shit list. That's all I know...

Ofcourse he don't want any part of the blame... he basically came over and said, "Great stuff. Holler at me, kid." to Pavlik after the KO...

and THEN he's NOT with JT at the post fight. These actions sealed his fate.

Dumb faced motherfucker.
PR316
Taylor's problem has always been mental. Its one thing to either win ccontroversial decisions against the likes of Hopkins and Wright(In Winky's case a draw).


But when you are the middleweight champion of the world and you lack the balls and ability to get smaller guys like Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks outta there, then there is definitely something wrong. Zab Judah who at best is a small welterweight, knocked out Cory Spinks in their 2nd fight, and knocked him down HARD in their first fight and had him nearly out.


When Taylor failed to score impressive KOs over those guys, thats when I really began to see that its all mental with this kid. He's always lacked craft. And thats probably never going to change. Its the MENTALITY that he has in the ring. Ouma and Spinks should NOT be backing Taylor up. Taylor should not be fighting DEFENSIVE fights against guys like this. And him doing so, makes me question his heart and guts.


Thats why it wasn't a surprise at all that Pavlik KO'd him. But now he goes demanding an INSTANT rematch. So I get mixed signals from him. I think mentally he just doesn't know who he is as a fighter. And if at this point he hasn't gotten that straight. I don't think he ever will.
BrutalBodyShots
I wouldn't pick Taylor over Miranda or Abraham until I see him face and beat a puncher. While Taylor would probably fare well for the first half of the fight against both of those guys, chances are he would get caught more and more by the mid and later rounds and with two guys that can punch it would be enough to stop him late. With Miranda he would have a chance of getting him out of there early, but then again Taylor hasn't stopped anyone early (or at all) recently. If Miranda gets through the tough going early I would pick him to catch Taylor in about round 8 or 9 when Taylor's tank was on about E.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(PR316 @ Oct 26 2007, 09:35 PM) [snapback]362478[/snapback]
Taylor's problem has always been mental. Its one thing to either win ccontroversial decisions against the likes of Hopkins and Wright(In Winky's case a draw).
But when you are the middleweight champion of the world and you lack the balls and ability to get smaller guys like Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks outta there, then there is definitely something wrong. Zab Judah who at best is a small welterweight, knocked out Cory Spinks in their 2nd fight, and knocked him down HARD in their first fight and had him nearly out.
When Taylor failed to score impressive KOs over those guys, thats when I really began to see that its all mental with this kid. He's always lacked craft. And thats probably never going to change. Its the MENTALITY that he has in the ring. Ouma and Spinks should NOT be backing Taylor up. Taylor should not be fighting DEFENSIVE fights against guys like this. And him doing so, makes me question his heart and guts.
Thats why it wasn't a surprise at all that Pavlik KO'd him. But now he goes demanding an INSTANT rematch. So I get mixed signals from him. I think mentally he just doesn't know who he is as a fighter. And if at this point he hasn't gotten that straight. I don't think he ever will.

Nice post. You make some good observations. These are some of the reasons why I was never high on Jermaine, and I do not think he will ever be a threat at 168lbs.
buford54
Agreed.
His lack of confidence stems back to Hopkins and Wright. He got the wins over Hopkins, but it wasn't so much because of anything he did, as much as what Hopkins didn't do.
I think that Hopkins took his confidence mentally. Even his trainer, Manny, said that Hopkins proved that he was the better fighter in those fights.
When Hopkins fought, he beat JT badly...even if for only 4 rounds per fight.
I think that when he saw that he ran out of gas against Hopkins he began to fight in spurts...which led to him looking bad against smaller guys. He began to lose his confidence after Hopkins took it from him.

It's been downhill ever since.
PR316
Looking back, I thought Hopkins won the first fight, and got either a draw in the 2nd or a narrow loss.


Hopkins lost those fights though because he is so damn defensive in his own right, and didn't show the energy to pick up the workrate in those early rounds. Taylor did hardly anything that was truly effective, but he was working and the crowd was ooing and aahhing. There wasn't much else to choose from.


What really gets me though is that both Ouma and Spinks are smaller, feather fisted fighters, that have suspect chins. Two guys that were made to order for Taylor prove himself a real champion and to see him fighting defensive fights against fighters with those attributes is really a sort of mental battle going on in there. Because its not like Ouma and Spinks' punches were exactly a health hazzard to Taylor.
BrutalBodyShots
I think it's pretty fair to say having seen how Taylor did against a puncher in Pavlik that his people were pretty selective in putting him in there with non-punchers in Spinks, Ouma and Wright for a reason. Let's also not forget about the talks of a potential fight against Mora for Taylor... another HUGE banger =)


BigG
Speaking of the Taylor-Hopkins fights.....

Hopkins-Taylor I:

Round 1: 10-9 Taylor
Round 2: 10-9 Taylor (the most eye catching thing of the round was a right hand that went over Hopkins head and Hopkins went off balance but that wasnt a clean shot and the replay clearly showed. It was a pretty even round but I'll give it to Taylor)
Round 3: 10-9 Taylor
Round 4: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 5: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 6: 10-9 Taylor
Round 7: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 8: 10-9 Taylor
Round 9: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 10: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 11: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 12: 10-9 Hopkins

Winner: 115-113 Hopkins

Hopkins-Taylor II:

Round 1: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 2: 10-9 Taylor
Round 3: 10-9 Taylor (VERY VERY close)
Round 4: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 5: 10-9 Taylor
Round 6: 10-9 Taylor
Round 7: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 8: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 9: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 10: 10-9 Hopkins
Round 11: 10-9 Taylor
Round 12: 10-9 Hopkins

Winner: 115-113 Hopkins.

I also thought Winky beat Taylor 7-5 and the Spinks fight was a draw....Taylor's only legit win in years is the Ouma win IMO..
BrutalBodyShots
Solid score cards George.

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