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Full Version: Taylor wants rematch, not tune up
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stateofthegame
According to 103.7 The Buzz, Jermain Taylor has initiated his rematch clause to face new champ Kelly Pavlik in his next fight. The fight is said to take place in Feb or March. I guess this kills Pavlik v Duddy.
BigG
Nice....can't wait.
Jack 1000
The only thing I don't like is that it might be a non-title over the weight fight at #166. So would the title be vacant or would Pavlik still have it regardless of who wins?

Jack
Tha Docta
honestly, i could care less if this is for a title. i want both guys to be at their best fighting weights for this one. no need for them to kill themselves to make 160.
caneman
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Oct 23 2007, 02:17 PM) [snapback]362094[/snapback]
The only thing I don't like is that it might be a non-title over the weight fight at #166. So would the title be vacant or would Pavlik still have it regardless of who wins?

Jack



kelly keeps the belts unless he gets striped which could happen but shouldn't. i like the rematch & the weigh is fine with me too. i don't think it will matter...JT will drop his left hand & get KTFO again!
BigG
I'm picking Pavlik but I just can't count Jermain out.
Maxy
I heard it could be Feb 23rd but hasn't Pavlik got Duddy on Jan 26th? If that fight's still on
there won't be a rematch with Taylor 'til at least May.

If it is at 166 like Jack pointed out, I can't honestly see either of them ever boxing at 160 again.
singletrack
Nice! JT is getting KTFO again! woooot!

I almost feel bad for him.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(singletrack @ Oct 23 2007, 04:06 PM) [snapback]362112[/snapback]
Nice! JT is getting KTFO again! woooot!

I almost feel bad for him.



maybe, maybe not. i do remember pavlik doing the zab judah shuffle there in the 2nd round.
pastor method
i wonder why taylor would choose to fight at 166? i seem to remember less than 6 months ago him saying he had no problem making 160 and wasn't planning on going to 168. why not fight for the title? seems dumb to me.
Mean Mister Mustard
Good for Jermaine for getting in there with Pavlik right away. He can win this fight, some had him winning the fight up until the knockout.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Oct 23 2007, 08:26 PM) [snapback]362114[/snapback]
maybe, maybe not. i do remember pavlik doing the zab judah shuffle there in the 2nd round.


True but unlike Judah Pavlova got up, fought back & kicked Taylors arse all over the shop.
BrutalBodyShots
Pavlik would stop Taylor 9 times out of 10. In that 1 time out of 10 maybe Taylor catches Pavlik cold early and finishes him (forces a referee stoppage). I think 10 times out of 10 that these two get in the ring together it never goes the distance.

That said, IMO Taylor's BEST chance would be to go out there right at Pavlik and try to catch him early with his clear speed advantage. The longer the fight goes, the more it favors Pavlik and the more Taylor will slow down and take more punishment. Unfortunately for Taylor, Steward will NOT go with this game plan, but rather one that allows his fighter to pace himself and not waste energy. Basically I think Steward will send Taylor out there to do exactly what he did the first time... win some rounds, tire, and get knocked out.

Taylor is a sucker for straight right hands - he just can't get away from them. Hopkins landed them with ease, Pavlik landed them whenever he wanted to, etc. It's pretty clear at this point that Steward isn't going to be the guy to show Taylor how to get away from a straight right hand, and when it carries power such has Pavlik's it's only a matter of time before they add up and start hurting more and more.

WolfishPromistah
I so hope that JT wins this so there'll be a part 3. These guys are good together. And I just feel the chemistry's there for what's continually called "throwback," with the possibility under someone else that Jermaine has a few surprises left still. Most of all is that JT is truly trying to represent as a champion caliber-fighter; that's win, lose, or draw.

Besides, the more and more I watch it, the more I believe that JT has a damned good chance of beating Kelly in a rematch; mainly because I felt Kelly's beating him the first time was more of a threat to possibly happen because of where Jermaine could fall, and did fall, short, over any thing Kelly really did. And since Loew ain't goin' no where, I feel Kelly ain't likely to change and add too much head movement that could be important.

True, Jermaine does need work, but it's not like the Ghost has this excellent game plan that could not be broken, even in places Jermaine showed he could do so already I feel. He could use much of what he did the first time, as a reminder, making it all the more easier for JT's future chances. There's so much he posses already that gives me the impression he's so close to where he needs to be right now anyway. But I do hope a little work is all he'll need to seal the deal this next way 'round.

Anyway, "fawk" the sentimental shyt I was gonna leave at the bottom of the post, I just hope he brings his A+ game the next ime to win, before setting up a third fight.
BrutalBodyShots
All of the planning and strategy that Steward and Taylor can come up with isn't going to allow him to take a puncher's power shots any better. Taylor never faced a puncher prior to Pavlik for a reason... when Pavlik lands that right hand again and again on Taylor we will see a repeat of the first fight.

WolfishPromistah
But I think it should be recalled that Taylor stood up pretty well to those shots for a fine extension of the night. It's not like Kelly just hit him once and he was KOd. So if Jermaine'd learn to defend better, and I'm not thinking to necessarily keep Steward, by the way, things could look up for him.

Using some more fluid combination throwing of shots, which gave gave Pavlik trouble throughout at points whenever JT would throw from varying angles (nothing major, but enough for me to conclude that KP gets a bit flustered when he's being controlled -- kept from his power being delt with), gives more opportunities to make Kelly pay dearly for his faults. See, from what I saw of Kelly, I really don't get the impression he's ready for a plan B. Maybe I'm too quick to judge as much. But I've seen a number of his fights and doubt that he's ever "really" had to feel he had to use one against a fast enough tactical fight against him. And Jermaine, from what he showed the first time, does appear to have the speed to collect the vast payment he wishes.

You know what it kinda reminds me of? When Rocky had to go up the second time in his movies against opposition, wherein he was always "so close" but needed that something extra to kick him into gear. And that's almost how I feel about Taylor against this guy -- he's so close to beating him because most every tool is there to...he just has to do that extra push up those high hills like the Stallone character in order to get to the next movie the winner.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(WolfishPromistah @ Oct 23 2007, 09:39 PM) [snapback]362149[/snapback]
But I think it should be recalled that Taylor stood up pretty well to those shots for a fine extension of the night. It's not like Kelly just hit him once and he was KOd. So if Jermaine'd learn to defend better, and I'm not thinking to necessarily keep Steward, by the way, things could look up for him.


Therein lies the problem however... had Taylor simply been the victim of a 1 punch KO it would be easy for him to go out there and avoid that one shot... but Taylor was hit more or less at will with the right hand of Pavlik. Yes it took a little time for them to add up, and Taylor could train to avoid getting hit with AS MANY in the rematch. Even if Taylor comes up with the perfect game plan in a rematch with Pavlik the problem not only is the execution of that game plan but sustaining it; Taylor's endurance has always been questionable. So IMO even if he DOES go out there and fight an extremely focused fight, it will only be a matter of time before he runs out of gas. When that happens, Pavlik will stop him again. For Taylor to win he'd have to accomplish two difficult things at the SAME time... 1 - overcome his stamina issues and 2 - execute a perfect game plan of fighting a fight that keeps him from taking as many Pavlik right hands. I personally think it would be more difficult to overcome #1 + #2 than to just go out there and throw caution to the wind, use his hand speed advantage and try to take Pavlik out in the first few rounds cold. Like I said however, Steward would never train him to do such a thing.

MarzB
Talk about the bandwagon shift. Ok, (and I'll comment in the Manny thread about this too) if Jermain was a smart fighter (what the allegedly GREAT Manny Stewart was supposed to teach him) the fight would have been over in the second round..

All Taylor had to do instead of stupid headhunting was go to a body attack after the knockdown which would have brought Pavlik's hands down and either come back to the head or Pavlik would have went down from the body shots.

This 9x's out of 10 Pavlik wins is just some ol cliche stuff. I'm convinced they'll have a trilogy because neither of them have anything resembling defense and since people want to see this rock'em sock'em style, it'll lead to a third fight, "IF" Jermain wins the next one..

Which leads me to strategy. Even if Taylor didn't go to the body, he punched himself out and dare I say underestimated Pavlik's power. I doubt the latter happens again so you'll have another barnstorming fight thats a "pick'em" fight.

But lets not act like Pavlik just totally owned Taylor the entire fight and I'm not a fan of neither guy...
BigG
Yeah the fight was competitive up until Pavlik got him in the 7th. That's why I'm not counting Taylor our in a rematch. Because the fact is, the man almost had Pavlik out in the 2nd round. Pavlik is not quick and is not a defensive genius...Taylor may very well catch him with another huge right hand and hurt him. What Taylor DOES need to do is stay of the ropes because Pavlik will kill him there. He needs to use his jab and stay in the middle of the ring.
The Original MrFactor
JT had to take this fight. He had nowhere else to go. Well... maybe he could have fought the Vargas/Mayorga winner... Seriously he had no choice, but to take this rematch. He badly needs to redeem himself. I think that KO was probably the most brutal I've seen this year. JT had alot of trouble dealing with Pav's length. I did see some subtle changes in the way JT moved his head to avoid some shots. He apparently didnt move his head enough though. Not sure what adjustments he will be willing to make for the rematch. Maybe he'll just slug it out and hope to catch Pav 1st. Should be another entertaining fight...
caneman
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 24 2007, 05:23 AM) [snapback]362176[/snapback]
Yeah the fight was competitive up until Pavlik got him in the 7th. That's why I'm not counting Taylor our in a rematch. Because the fact is, the man almost had Pavlik out in the 2nd round. Pavlik is not quick and is not a defensive genius...Taylor may very well catch him with another huge right hand and hurt him. What Taylor DOES need to do is stay of the ropes because Pavlik will kill him there. He needs to use his jab and stay in the middle of the ring.



2 things here big george, one, the problem is that JT drops his left hand to much & always has. hell 1/2 the time he doesn't only have it low but on a 90 degree angle across his body so if pavlik throws double jabs & str8 rights, it will just be a matter of time!!!!
the 2nd thing is pavlik isn't going to drop his hands & stick his chin out again, he will keep it tucked & his hands up high. not that JT won't have moments but he will get KOed again IMO. i think pavlik can & will improve while JT can't. if i was pavlik, i would invest to the body early, double jab with chin tucked & keep on with the right hand down the pipe! aggressive.gif
yuca
QUOTE(caneman @ Oct 24 2007, 07:38 AM) [snapback]362185[/snapback]
2 things here big george, one, the problem is that JT drops his left hand to much & always has. hell 1/2 the time he doesn't only have it low but on a 90 degree angle across his body so if pavlik throws double jabs & str8 rights, it will just be a matter of time!!!!

That is so true, Manny should make him train a couple of rounds with his left hand tied to his forehead. Should he make that sole adjustment, it could prove to be the difference in the rematch.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Fitz @ Oct 24 2007, 04:05 AM) [snapback]362175[/snapback]
Yep. I don't like either guy as well, but the fight was close up until the stoppage.

No. Taylor had a big 2nd round because Pavlik made a foolish mistake and dropped his hands then Taylor went to town. But, once Pavlik learned that he could land that long jab and follow it with the right hand - the fight was basically over. Taylor has ALWAYS been such the sucker for right hands and it's more than likely too late to do anything about it.

Pavlik KO4 in the rematch
Southeastpaw
Taylor has not had a good win in how many years now???

Taylor needs to hold off on a rematch and fight someone that he can beat, and look spectacular beating. Not a total bum, but someone that is a normal type fighter. Maybe two fights like that, then think about coming back. He needs a fight to really build his confidence up. I don't think he will evert beat Pavlik, but shit. He needs to do something positive for his psyche.
BigG
WOuldn't mind seeing Taylor fight Pantera....but I'm happy the rematch is on.

Man, I just hope Jermain works on his defense and fights a more intelligent fight this time. Jermain has all the tools, he just doesn't deliver. And he doesn't know how to stay/fight of the ropes. Winky and Pavlik killed him there. He needs to use his quickness and just jab Pavlik.

But Pavlik keeps coming I and I'd expect Jermain to tire and get taken out again sometime in the 8th round.

I admit that Im really a Jermain fan and I want him to succeed and become great but I don't think he can.
BrutalBodyShots
I dunno Fitz I still see that clip completely different than you. Sure Pavlik is buzzed during that entire sequence and is doing pretty well at getting through it, but right as his hands go down and he makes that stupid face Taylor lands the left-right-left (the final left perfectly clean) that puts Pavlik down.

I'm not saying there's no chance Pavlik wouldn't have gone down otherwise, but his whole "you didn't hurt me" moment where he makes that face or whatever you want to call it certainly didn't help matters as the shots that put him down happened less than a second after that.

BrutalBodyShots
One big piece of advice that I'd give Pavlik in the rematch concerns the work he was doing when Taylor had his back on the ropes or to a corner. Pavlik did some of his best work within the 5 or so seconds of Taylor backing himself to the ropes or into a corner, landing big right hands and such. Taylor's natural instinct after taking 2 or 3 bombs was to fight back, and he would spring out of his defensive posture with fast shots that usually would catch Pavlik simply because of Taylor's superior speed.

If I'm Pavlik's trainer I'd tell him to let a good 5-6 punch combo go on Taylor when he backs himself to the ropes, but then take a big step back so when Taylor throws back he has nothing to hit. If Taylor doesn't throw back (possibly Pavlik hurt him) Pavlik can single or double jab/right hand his way right back in and throw another big combination.

I'd say that 40-50% of the damage that Pavlik took in the fight was during these times where Taylor would throw back after taking punishment, and Pavlik was there to be hit. If Pavlik were to do as I've illustrated above he'd get hit less and be more effective.

The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Oct 24 2007, 09:51 PM) [snapback]362254[/snapback]
One big piece of advice that I'd give Pavlik in the rematch concerns the work he was doing when Taylor had his back on the ropes or to a corner. Pavlik did some of his best work within the 5 or so seconds of Taylor backing himself to the ropes or into a corner, landing big right hands and such. Taylor's natural instinct after taking 2 or 3 bombs was to fight back, and he would spring out of his defensive posture with fast shots that usually would catch Pavlik simply because of Taylor's superior speed.

If I'm Pavlik's trainer I'd tell him to let a good 5-6 punch combo go on Taylor when he backs himself to the ropes, but then take a big step back so when Taylor throws back he has nothing to hit. If Taylor doesn't throw back (possibly Pavlik hurt him) Pavlik can single or double jab/right hand his way right back in and throw another big combination.

I'd say that 40-50% of the damage that Pavlik took in the fight was during these times where Taylor would throw back after taking punishment, and Pavlik was there to be hit. If Pavlik were to do as I've illustrated above he'd get hit less and be more effective.



You hit the nail on the head... I saw the same exact problem. Taylor did that ion the Wright fight too. He got backed up and then jumps up with a 1-2(maybe a 3) combo to get his opponent to stop hitting him. Rather than cover up, he throws punches. Thats ultimately what did him in. He doesnt know how to cover up effectively.
boxing.is.still.#1
Taylor deserves every ounce of a rematch with pavlick. Anyone with a record, and names under his belt like jermain should get a rematch. Jermain will win the next fight with pavlick,... easily... early knockout. I did'nt agree with the stop, i thought it was a bit premature,....im not a taylor fan either, actually he's not even on my top ten! But this slow, non agresive pavlick is'nt anywhere in my books,...he should fight some more big names. Jermain should have got the eight count.....I saw more fatigue than a beating....agree?.. Pavlick is nothing but a finisher....
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(boxing.is.still.#1 @ Oct 28 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]362603[/snapback]
Taylor deserves every ounce of a rematch with pavlick. Anyone with a record, and names under his belt like jermain should get a rematch. Jermain will win the next fight with pavlick,... easily... early knockout. I did'nt agree with the stop, i thought it was a bit premature,....im not a taylor fan either, actually he's not even on my top ten! But this slow, non agresive pavlick is'nt anywhere in my books,...he should fight some more big names. Jermain should have got the eight count.....I saw more fatigue than a beating....agree?.. Pavlick is nothing but a finisher....


What a bad post for your first one.



caneman
QUOTE(boxing.is.still.#1 @ Oct 28 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]362603[/snapback]
Taylor deserves every ounce of a rematch with pavlick. Anyone with a record, and names under his belt like jermain should get a rematch. Jermain will win the next fight with pavlick,... easily... early knockout. I did'nt agree with the stop, i thought it was a bit premature,....im not a taylor fan either, actually he's not even on my top ten! But this slow, non agresive pavlick is'nt anywhere in my books,...he should fight some more big names. Jermain should have got the eight count.....I saw more fatigue than a beating....agree?.. Pavlick is nothing but a finisher....

8 count? he stayed on the floor over 30 seconds man laugh.gif then got up on a stool in pavlik's corner...and no it was more beating. most seemed to have missed it but JT was hurt before he even got caught on the ropes! it was a hard rthand 5 feet before he even hit the ropes & then a jab & a rthand he didn't even see & the ghost closed the show when he went to the corner.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(boxing.is.still.#1 @ Oct 28 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]362603[/snapback]
Taylor deserves every ounce of a rematch with pavlick. Anyone with a record, and names under his belt like jermain should get a rematch. Jermain will win the next fight with pavlick,... easily... early knockout. I did'nt agree with the stop, i thought it was a bit premature,....im not a taylor fan either, actually he's not even on my top ten! But this slow, non agresive pavlick is'nt anywhere in my books,...he should fight some more big names. Jermain should have got the eight count.....I saw more fatigue than a beating....agree?.. Pavlick is nothing but a finisher....

laugh.gif Are you joking? If not, you have not been following boxing too long. Why would Jermaine win the rematch "easily" as you say? You think the stoppage was premature, thats hilarious!!! You also say Pavlik is "slow and non aggressive", what the hell are you smoking? So you also think Jermaine lost due to fatigue, I guess those shots Kelly bounced off the head of JT had nothing to do with the KO. You also say "Pavlik is nothing but a finisher", well did Pavlik finish off Taylor or did Taylor lose by fatigue? Make up your mind. This post has got to be a joke, there is no way you are serious. I am no English major, and by no means am i a good writer, but your writing and punctuation is terrible.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Oct 28 2007, 12:44 PM) [snapback]362628[/snapback]
What a bad post for your first one.
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
torvix2000
It's so nice seeing a "1-dimensional" fighter putting a more talented fighter down cold. Everybody shouldn't complain about the rematch happening immediately. It would be fun.
WolfishPromistah
"it was a hard rthand 5 feet before he even hit the ropes..."

That's what we know, caneman; I caught that same approximate "minute point" in the fight, which was seconds before Jermaine was out of there. It was a simple jab and 1, 2 combination (twice thrown) before Kelly hit him with the final shots to take him down. Jermain was hurtin' TWO TIMES before he even got to the ropes for the final stanza. I think that he even may have "tried" to play it off in order to attempt to gather himself after the first time he was hurt near the end -- the first jab and combination I mean.

Within those final seconds before being knocked to the ropes, JT attempted to throw against Kelly (Oh, but that didn't work well at all), and you could see him get sorta stopped in his tracks when he went to throw against the first firey combination from the Ghost. Funny, too, 'cause I immediately think compliments to JT's holding his left too low yet again. Anyway, after that, it was just one repetition, before bombs away from various punches (uppercuts, hooks -- all short short shots up close).

Kelly was onto him. He indeed does have a sharp eye, and is a great finisher.
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