Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Pac afraid of Marquez?
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Thegreatequalizer
this seems ridiculous. he wants to fight juan diaz because he'll get a bigger percentage of the purse? it's sad when fighters ignore boxing significance for some money. it would be one thing if pac were poor, but he's rich. marquez is a way bigger ppv draw than diaz, so i don't see how it can be that huge of a difference as far as a payday. pac is running from marquez cause he knows he'll get outboxed. unfortunately for pac, i think diaz will knock him out.
Snoop
I honestly think Pac will lose to either one of em so get the bigger purse if you're going to lose anyways right?
X3_Bazooka_X3
I think Pac is making the right business choice here if he fights Marquez and losses he Marquez gets the fight with Diaz if he fights Diaz first and losses there he can cry it wasnt his weight class and come back down to make money with Marquez so to me its all about money here picking the fights in the correct order.
Snoop
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 11 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]364718[/snapback]
I think Pac is making the right business choice here if he fights Marquez and losses he Marquez gets the fight with Diaz if he fights Diaz first and losses there he can cry it wasnt his weight class and come back down to make money with Marquez so to me its all about money here picking the fights in the correct order.

Great point. I actually see this scenario playing out.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Nov 11 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]364722[/snapback]
Great point. I actually see this scenario playing out.



They have been very good at comming up with perfect excuses so this is just the way I see things right now.
BrutalBodyShots
Only problem with losing to Diaz first at 135 is that in doing so Pac will take a good beating. Who knows if that would alter the outcome of Pac-Marquez II?

Pac-Marquez II is more or less a tossup fight, but I give Marquez the slight edge and would take him by decision.

Pac-Diaz IMO would be competitive for the first 1/3 of the fight, but Diaz would take over and either stop Pac or give him a bad beating if it goes the distance.

I think if Pac-Diaz happens first, Marquez HAS to be favored against Pac if they meet after.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 11 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]364724[/snapback]
Only problem with losing to Diaz first at 135 is that in doing so Pac will take a good beating. Who knows if that would alter the outcome of Pac-Marquez II?


I dont think it would do anything to a rematch honestly did the loss Morales took from Raheem do anything to alter a rematch with Pacquiao?

I just think from a business perspective Roach will insist on Diaz first especially when you consider how sharp Marquez has looked lately.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 11 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]364726[/snapback]
I dont think it would do anything to a rematch honestly did the loss Morales took from Raheem do anything to alter a rematch with Pacquiao?


Diaz would put it on Pacquiao at 135 much worse than Raheem did to Morales IMO, so this isn't a fair comparison.

But, since you bring it up you actually make my point with your example. Morales beats Pacquiao the first time, moves to 135 and loses, then back at 130 for the rematch with Pacquiao loses what most felt was a pickem fight.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 11 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]364730[/snapback]
Diaz would put it on Pacquiao at 135 much worse than Raheem did to Morales IMO, so this isn't a fair comparison.

But, since you bring it up you actually make my point with your example. Morales beats Pacquiao the first time, moves to 135 and loses, then back at 130 for the rematch with Pacquiao loses what most felt was a pickem fight.


Diaz would put it on him and I agree, but like I said this is comming from a business perspective why not get both paychecks instead of just one? again I think its how this plays out though its just a thought, I think Marquez also ripps Manny in the rematch.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 11 2007, 06:30 PM) [snapback]364733[/snapback]
Diaz would put it on him and I agree, but like I said this is comming from a business perspective why not get both paychecks instead of just one? again I think its how this plays out though its just a thought, I think Marquez also ripps Manny in the rematch.


If Pacquiao was simply looking for 2 paychecks and then to call it a day I'd agree with you, but I have not seen or heard anything from Pacquiao suggesting he will be hanging them up any time soon.

That said, Pacquiao like most fighters should be looking to win fights... not just get 2 paychecks. The Marquez fight may be winnable for him now, but post-Diaz beating I think Marquez would have to be a solid 2-1 favorite over Pacquiao II. If they were to fight again at that point Pacquiao would be 0-2 in 2 fights, where if he faced Marquez first he'd at least have a shot at being 1-1 in those 2 fights. 0-2 doesn't bode well for Pacquiao's immediate future following those losses, and he'd have to take a few BS fights (low paychecks) to build himself back up.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 11 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]364739[/snapback]
If Pacquiao was simply looking for 2 paychecks and then to call it a day I'd agree with you, but I have not seen or heard anything from Pacquiao suggesting he will be hanging them up any time soon.

That said, Pacquiao like most fighters should be looking to win fights... not just get 2 paychecks. The Marquez fight may be winnable for him now, but post-Diaz beating I think Marquez would have to be a solid 2-1 favorite over Pacquiao II. If they were to fight again at that point Pacquiao would be 0-2 in 2 fights, where if he faced Marquez first he'd at least have a shot at being 1-1 in those 2 fights. 0-2 doesn't bode well for Pacquiao's immediate future following those losses, and he'd have to take a few BS fights (low paychecks) to build himself back up.



Pacquiao stated prior to his rematch with Barrera that he plans on retiring in the next 2 or three years
torvix2000
This is a paycheck radar.

Pac isn't afraid of Marquez. He was already in the US training for their rematch when Marquez "chickened" out, remember? Then Pac went back to the Philippines rested and moved up in weight to fight Erik Morales.

Then Erik Morales schooled him, chased him around the ring, absorbed his best shots, and handed him a loss. And Pac was still very eager for the rematch.

Pacquiao is a gambler. He isn't afraid of taking risks. He lost in a Philippine election, remember? And he always lose gambling. And I bet losing against the Diaz and Marquez is just a risk that he can take.

It's just a question of who he has to lose first to.
xxxxxx
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 11 2007, 07:40 PM) [snapback]364739[/snapback]
If Pacquiao was simply looking for 2 paychecks and then to call it a day I'd agree with you, but I have not seen or heard anything from Pacquiao suggesting he will be hanging them up any time soon.

That said, Pacquiao like most fighters should be looking to win fights... not just get 2 paychecks. The Marquez fight may be winnable for him now, but post-Diaz beating I think Marquez would have to be a solid 2-1 favorite over Pacquiao II. If they were to fight again at that point Pacquiao would be 0-2 in 2 fights, where if he faced Marquez first he'd at least have a shot at being 1-1 in those 2 fights. 0-2 doesn't bode well for Pacquiao's immediate future following those losses, and he'd have to take a few BS fights (low paychecks) to build himself back up.



I disagree.2-1 favorite over Pac if he loses to Diaz? Where do you get your odds? Who are you to determine what the odds are on a fight?I think Pac gives Diaz a solid fight and beats Marquez on his aggressive style.On Pac-J.Diaz. . . . I won't make my prediction until the fight is made.
BigG
I read in a few articles that Pacquiao wants to fight DAVID Diaz? David Diaz was getting his ass kicked all around the ring by Santa Cruz before he stopped him. In a rematch, I'd go with Santa Cruz easily. David Diaz could not even beat a shot Morales clearly. Thats a tune up fightf or Pacquiao.

He needs to fight Juan Manuel Marquez or Juan Diaz......or maybe the Guzman-Soto winner.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 11 2007, 07:42 PM) [snapback]364745[/snapback]
Pacquiao stated prior to his rematch with Barrera that he plans on retiring in the next 2 or three years


2-3 years at 2 fights a year is 4-6 fights... that's more than 2 more paychecks.

xxxxxx
QUOTE(Fitz @ Nov 11 2007, 10:27 PM) [snapback]364774[/snapback]
I would be VERY confident in laying down some money on Juan. I wouldn't think twice about this fight.

As of right now I would favor Juan Diaz over Pacman, but Pac would be a live underdog in my opinion.However, I think Pac beats Marquez in a close fight if they make their rematch.I will say this though, If Pac does fight Juan and pulls the upset he reaches Legendary status and you can't blame the guy for taking the fight.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(xxxxxx @ Nov 11 2007, 09:01 PM) [snapback]364765[/snapback]
I disagree.2-1 favorite over Pac if he loses to Diaz? Where do you get your odds? Who are you to determine what the odds are on a fight?I think Pac gives Diaz a solid fight and beats Marquez on his aggressive style.On Pac-J.Diaz. . . . I won't make my prediction until the fight is made.


If Pacquiao took a beating at 135 against Diaz and returned to 130 to face Marquez II, why would you find it hard to believe that Pac would be a 2-1 dog to Marquez coming off of that loss?

If Pac-Marquez II were made RIGHT NOW it would be an even money fight... and realistically it should be more like -120 Marquez. After a Diaz loss how can you not believe Marquez would be a solid favorite?

xxxxxx
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 11 2007, 11:21 PM) [snapback]364784[/snapback]
If Pacquiao took a beating at 135 against Diaz and returned to 130 to face Marquez II, why would you find it hard to believe that Pac would be a 2-1 dog to Marquez coming off of that loss?

If Pac-Marquez II were made RIGHT NOW it would be an even money fight... and realistically it should be more like -120 Marquez. After a Diaz loss how can you not believe Marquez would be a solid favorite?



A loss to Juan Diaz at 135 is no shame and shouldn't hurt Pacs odds if he fought Marquez after a Juan Diaz loss.Now, if Pac got knocked out sensless and taken away on a stretcher than maybe I could see him as a 2-1 dog if he fought Marquez next.Remember Brutal, Pac really should of won the first fight, but one of the Judges screwed up on the 1st round scoring.I understand Marquez was coming on in that fight and won a lot of rounds, but Pac has improved a lot sense that draw and Marquez has actually lost a step in my opinion.I would'nt be shocked if Marquez won a tight dec over Pac, but I'm sticking with Pac to win the rematch.I respect Marquez a lot, hes a good fighter with class.Did anybody see the Marquez-John fight awhile back, I seen the result, but I don't know much about John.Is John really that good?According to the scores he won fairly convincingly.You never hear much about him.
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Nov 11 2007, 07:52 PM) [snapback]364749[/snapback]
Pac isn't afraid of Marquez. He was already in the US training for their rematch when Marquez "chickened" out, remember? Then Pac went back to the Philippines rested and moved up in weight to fight Erik Morales.



well, marquez did turn down the rematch, but i think it was mainly that they lowballed him. and they did that because roach knows that marquez can shut pac down if he doesn't get careless. so roach wants to go with someone whose style he thinks pac will do better against. a guy he sees "getting hit a lot" in juan diaz.
kidbazooka1
I seriousley believe that Roach doesn't think Pac can beat Marquez nor Diaz so he's trying to get the biggest payday he can right now.
torvix2000
QUOTE(Thegreatequalizer @ Nov 12 2007, 05:16 AM) [snapback]364797[/snapback]
well, marquez did turn down the rematch, but i think it was mainly that they lowballed him.


Low balled? Hmm... if that's what you call low balling then what do you call what happened to him in Indonesia then?
BigG
I agree, Marquez was asking for too much when they were in discussions for the rematch. But the time is right for them to fight. Marquez is willing to fight and has called Pacman out. The first fight was a classic....the rematch is a 50-50 fight that MUST happen next year.
STANGMOZ
hE HAS to fight somebody............. dntknw.gif
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Nov 12 2007, 01:07 AM) [snapback]364810[/snapback]
Low balled? Hmm... if that's what you call low balling then what do you call what happened to him in Indonesia then?


i call that fighting a no name. when the money is there, a top p4p fighter expects to get a reasonable cut.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(xxxxxx @ Nov 11 2007, 10:38 PM) [snapback]364789[/snapback]
A loss to Juan Diaz at 135 is no shame and shouldn't hurt Pacs odds if he fought Marquez after a Juan Diaz loss.


Pacquiao stands a great chance against Diaz of taking career-changing punishment... that type of punishment makes your chances of winning a pickem fight prior all that much tougher, hence the reason I say Marquez would be favored over Pac following a loss to Diaz.

torvix2000
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 12 2007, 10:39 AM) [snapback]364843[/snapback]
Pacquiao stands a great chance against Diaz of taking career-changing punishment... that type of punishment makes your chances of winning a pickem fight prior all that much tougher, hence the reason I say Marquez would be favored over Pac following a loss to Diaz.


I don't know, Brutal. There is no way Pac takes a career-changing punishment. He doesn't have a granite chin. If he takes a medium amount of punches from Diaz he'll get knocked out without much damage. And if Diaz prolonged the fight, then I assume that he also received tremendous amount of punches from Pacquiao.
torvix2000
QUOTE(Thegreatequalizer @ Nov 12 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]364835[/snapback]
i call that fighting a no name. when the money is there, a top p4p fighter expects to get a reasonable cut.


He turned down $750,000. Pac should have received $900,000. I think that was a reasonable cut.
buford54
Marquez learned from getting careless and won't make the same mistakes he made in the first fight.
Pac has improved somewhat, but not enough to beat Marquez. If you remember the first fight...other than the first 2 rounds, Marquez pretty much shut Manny out.
I predict Marquez by fairly uneventful UD.
That's why Pac doesn't want it. I actually do see the earlier mentioned scenario playing out. Pac goes up to fight Diaz, loses, crys about the weight, and then comes back down to fight Marquez.
xxxxxx
QUOTE(buford54 @ Nov 12 2007, 10:52 AM) [snapback]364856[/snapback]
Marquez learned from getting careless and won't make the same mistakes he made in the first fight.
Pac has improved somewhat, but not enough to beat Marquez. If you remember the first fight...other than the first 2 rounds, Marquez pretty much shut Manny out.
I predict Marquez by fairly uneventful UD.
That's why Pac doesn't want it. I actually do see the earlier mentioned scenario playing out. Pac goes up to fight Diaz, loses, crys about the weight, and then comes back down to fight Marquez.



I disagree, Pac won't cry about the weight if he fought and lost to Diaz.In my opinion, If Pac moves up he will stay at 135 and if Marquez still wants him after Diaz fight he will fight him at 135.
buford54
That's certainly a possibility...but the way that Pac and Roach wouldn't allow the rematches w/ Morales to take place at 132, because they wanted Morales to have to drain himself completely, leads me to believe that his natural weight is 130, and if he fails at 135, they'll be quick to point that out.

If he wins at 135, he'll make Marquez chase him up in weight for sure, because he'll have already fought at that weight and will be a bit more comfortable there.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Nov 12 2007, 06:33 AM) [snapback]364846[/snapback]
I don't know, Brutal. There is no way Pac takes a career-changing punishment. He doesn't have a granite chin. If he takes a medium amount of punches from Diaz he'll get knocked out without much damage. And if Diaz prolonged the fight, then I assume that he also received tremendous amount of punches from Pacquiao.


The punches Diaz takes from Pacquiao has no bearing on Pacquiao-Marquez II should it happen after Pacquiao-Diaz. Diaz doesn't have numbing 1 punch power, so he would break Pacquiao down over the course of many rounds. I think he'd put a beating on him personally.

torvix2000
Hehehe!
BrutalBodyShots
Congratulations to Pac for taking this fight now instead of after Diaz. At least now he has a chance, although I'm not picking him to win.

Marquez by CLEAR decision.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.