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Big Slim Sweet
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...e=ESPNHeadlines

With the rematch already just three months away, is this a good thing or bad?
Lil-lightsout
Definately a good thing, I personally saw no improvement in JT with Emmanuel. I am curious who will take over training duties.
singletrack
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Nov 12 2007, 04:38 PM) [snapback]364913[/snapback]
With the rematch already just three months away, is this a good thing or bad?


Thanks for the link Slim.

I'd say in the short term, they could have anyone train Taylor and it won't make a difference. I think he is going to get KTFO again. In the long term, if they get the right guy, it will be good for Taylor. Working with Emmanuel obviously wasn't working for whatever reason. Although, with the exception of the twitching in the Pavlik fight, he looked much better than he had in previous fights.

Bottom line, I really think Taylor has shitty reflexes, suspect defense, and terrible conditioning. Anyone with a good jab and solid fundamentals is going to dominate him. Of course, the corrupt judges had him winning at the time of the stoppage, so what do I know.

I think Bernard just gave him, and the judges for that matter, way too much respect. If BHOP would have just gone after him from the beginning, he would have found him easy to hit and totally broken him down.
Big Slim Sweet
I have no doubt that theoretically at least, this is a good long term decision. Taylor and Steward just didn't mesh well at all. However, going with a new trainer into a do-or-die fight without perhaps taking a tune-up first could be dangerous, no? And in JT's case, despite him being relatively young still and seen for so long as one of the future cornerstones of the sport, he could realistically be one more KO away from the scrap heap. So if in the short term the move doesn't work, there might not be a long term.

I actually think there's a real chance Taylor has only one fight left in his career. He rematches Pavlik, gets KO'd again, and quits.
BrutalBodyShots
I guess it really depends on who the new trainer is for one, and what he plans on doing with Taylor in the next few months. Trying to make any drastic changes with him in such a short period of time I don't believe would be a smart move... not unless he was fighting a scrub just to get back in the winning column.

Method
Get back with Pat Burns.
namor
QUOTE(singletrack @ Nov 12 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]364919[/snapback]
Thanks for the link Slim.

I'd say in the short term, they could have anyone train Taylor and it won't make a difference. I think he is going to get KTFO again. In the long term, if they get the right guy, it will be good for Taylor. Working with Emmanuel obviously wasn't working for whatever reason. Although, with the exception of the twitching in the Pavlik fight, he looked much better than he had in previous fights.

Bottom line, I really think Taylor has shitty reflexes, suspect defense, and terrible conditioning. Anyone with a good jab and solid fundamentals is going to dominate him. Of course, the corrupt judges had him winning at the time of the stoppage, so what do I know.

I think Bernard just gave him, and the judges for that matter, way too much respect. If BHOP would have just gone after him from the beginning, he would have found him easy to hit and totally broken him down.








I think Jermaine Taylor is a bum,and Emmanuel Steward is a fat fraud.


That fat gorilla made his career on training fighters who are taller and rangier then their opponents who are bums.
(Don`t think im being racist Im black myself,I just can`t that fat idiot.)


Look what happened when Tayolor did`nt have the height and reach advantage.owned


Cintron better leave that gorrila before its too late.



The Original MrFactor
Best thing that could have happened to Taylor. I agree with one of the posters above in that he should go back to Pat Burns.
WolfishPromistah
All I was doing is just waiting for the word of "when." So it's done, as expected. Hey, when I found out about Steward's trying to get Pavlik as his trainee, as well as his telling Taylor he was down, whether true or not (I'm pretty confident was well intentioned, but because of what happened in the end it probably discourages trust from Taylor), I felt it was just a matter of time; and Manny would not likely be there the next go 'round.
Thegreatequalizer
yeah, they didn't seem to make a good team. taylor seemed to lose his jab after getting with steward, which, of course, was just about the only thing he really had going for him. i don't think taylor's natural style mixed very well with steward's training. he needs someone that will help him focus on what he can do well, instead of trying to make him a better boxer. or something. overall i don't think it will make too much of a difference, taylor, though very athletic, lacks some kind of coordination. and stamina.
WolfishPromistah
Either go back to Burns or get Freddie Roach and begin working on improving TOMORROW -- hell, even tonight! -- if he can. Come back and destroy a monster like Pavlik. With Jermain's natural athleticism, he's got so much goin' for 'em. And if he learns to really harness all his strength and energy, he can beat Kelly, with a few extra tricks inlcuded. I felt the ghost would win the first time, but I still think Jermaine can win the second.
singletrack
QUOTE(WolfishPromistah @ Nov 12 2007, 08:07 PM) [snapback]364971[/snapback]
Either go back to Burns or get Freddie Roach and begin working on improving TOMORROW -- hell, even tonight! -- if he can. Come back and destroy a monster like Pavlik. With Jermain's natural athleticism, he's got so much goin' for 'em. And if he learns to really harness all his strength and energy, he can beat Kelly, with a few extra tricks inlcuded. I felt the ghost would win the first time, but I still think Jermaine can win the second.


He's athletic, but this is not the right sport for him. The nervous twitching is crazy, and his reaction times are shit man. He took so many jabs in the face, it was like watching a Rocky movie. I don't think I've ever seen him parry a punch.

BigG
I dont know if any trainer can help Jermain. But he might be better off WITHOUT Stewart.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(singletrack @ Nov 12 2007, 10:27 PM) [snapback]364995[/snapback]
I don't think I've ever seen him parry a punch.



Yes you have...he parries them with his face...
Snoop
Steward seemed to confuse the hell out of Taylor. Then he would blame Jermaine for losing afterwards. LOL.
torvix2000
Training Taylor to box is stupid. He should have used his athleticism and added some bit of boxing one fight at a time. Hell, the guy got confused.

He should go with Freddie Roach.
BigG
Man do you see Taylor in the corner? he doesnt even listen to his trainer....Its like he has a blank stare. Taylor will always be Taylor...He has the basic boxing tools...a quick, powerful jab. and he has his flaws but he gets by on will and pure athletic talent......I say get back with Pat Burns because they looked like they had chemstiry...or Roach because Roach seems like a calm nice easy to work with guy.
singletrack
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Nov 12 2007, 11:25 PM) [snapback]365017[/snapback]
Yes you have...he parries them with his face...


LOL!
singletrack
"Meaner than Tommy Hearns!"

hahahahaha - I think he lost all credibility when he said that.
Nobudius
Funny-they looked like father & son on the HBO special.
Chi-Town
Excellent point....I think the things Manny tried to teach him were just over his head. I hate to speak badly of anyone, especially a guy as nice as JT but he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer if you catch my drift.


QUOTE(snoopnick @ Nov 13 2007, 12:45 AM) [snapback]365031[/snapback]
Steward seemed to confuse the hell out of Taylor. Then he would blame Jermaine for losing afterwards. LOL.

stateofthegame
According to a news report here in Arkansas on tv last night, they said Nelson is considering taking on the head trainer role, but they were talking with Burns about possibly coming back on board.
X3_Bazooka_X3
Taylor made a good choice he should go back to his trainer that got him the championship ever since he picked up stewart he looked like shit and the only fight he looked good in with stewart was a fight he got knocked out in
Fitz
If I was Burns, I would be reluctant to go back to that guy.
WolfishPromistah
QUOTE(Fitz @ Nov 14 2007, 01:51 AM) [snapback]365129[/snapback]
If I was Burns, I would be reluctant to go back to that guy.


Speaking for myself -- Oh, I don't know, as long as no one first tries to now "pat" me over the head, but then "burns" me with their misunderstanding of my bid for a higher dollar amount this next time around, I think we could possibly work something out quickly enough.
JD
I read that Ozell is going to take the gig.

Pavlik is going to blast JT out of there inside of 5.
PR316
^^^^^ If that indeed happens in that sort of fashion, then Taylor's career is all but over.


I was never high on Taylor in the first place but I ask myself, what the hell happened to his JAB???... I NEVER see him use it anymore.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(PR316 @ Nov 14 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]365145[/snapback]
I was never high on Taylor in the first place but I ask myself, what the hell happened to his JAB???... I NEVER see him use it anymore.


Hopkins and Wright took it away from him.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 14 2007, 08:20 AM) [snapback]365141[/snapback]
Pavlik is going to blast JT out of there inside of 5.


I took think Pavlik will get it done a little quicker the second time around.

Nay_Sayer
What about Pavlik's injury? Does it have any impact on the rematch?
JD
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Nov 14 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]365200[/snapback]
What about Pavlik's injury? Does it have any impact on the rematch?


Negative.

All wounds are totally superficial, and he will be back working out full force within two weeks of getting his stitches out...and they come out over the next week or so.
Akalabah
I don't see Taylor winning this one. He threw his best stuff in the first fight and when that didn't work, he lost confidence and slowed down, just like every Taylor fight. If he loses, he should move up to 168 like he said, beat up a bum then fight miranda.
Method
Hell, man, I dunno. I could see either guy going to sleep.
BrutalBodyShots
I think the mental aspect will be huge going into the rematch... I mean Taylor's first loss, but not only a loss he got brutally stopped. He KNOWS he cannot take Pavlik's punching power which has got to be a big weight on his mind. He'll most likely fight more tentative and once Pavlik clips him with a solid right hand or two he'll break down mentally even more when he feels a little wobble in his legs and remembers what happened the first time.

Pavlik on the other hand can get dropped, wobbled and moved around the ring like a rag doll and it won't do a thing to him mentally because he knows he can come back from that and know out his man.

All the advantages point to Pavlik.

stateofthegame
Another thing is that I do not believe Taylor's confidence is very good anyway because all everyone has ever told him was how great he was and anytime he gets criticized he acts like a kid that had his candy stolen. I firmly believe that if he gets crushed again by Pavlik, not only will his confidence be shattered even farther, but his career will be over as well.
Fitz
QUOTE(Akalabah @ Nov 16 2007, 02:38 AM) [snapback]365269[/snapback]
If he loses, he should move up to 168 like he said, beat up a bum then fight miranda.


Things would only get worse for him at 168. Unless you're implying he goes up for one last fight against Miranda and then call it a day if he loses.
BrutalBodyShots
If Taylor can't get past a puncher at 160 he will have a lot of trouble at 168.

PR316
QUOTE(Method @ Nov 15 2007, 03:54 PM) [snapback]365276[/snapback]
Hell, man, I dunno. I could see either guy going to sleep.



I said the same thing to be honest. And Pavlik fights in such a style that makes this possible.


But damn, there really is something wrong with Jermain. And this isn't even about the Pavlik fight, the Hopkins fights, or the Wright fight.

His fights against Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks really left me scratching my head. In those two fights, Taylor had guys who were smaller than him, not big punchers, and are known to have SUSPECT chins.


I'm sorry but thats just unacceptable to me. When your the MIDDLEWEIGHT champion and your fighting smaller guys coming up who can't punch and have been KO'd before, you HAVE to take those guys out.

Taylor just doesn't know who he is as a fighter. I don't know what it is. I guess Hopkins really took alot out of the guy mentally and emotionally because there is something there.

A real confidence issue if you ask me. And I sensed this before the Pavlik fight.
BrutalBodyShots
And if confidence was an issue prior to Pavlik, how is that confidence going to be after getting KTFO for the first time?

I think an immediate rematch with Pavlik is the wrong answer for Taylor at this stage.

Fitz
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 16 2007, 02:31 PM) [snapback]365359[/snapback]
And if confidence was an issue prior to Pavlik, how is that confidence going to be after getting KTFO for the first time?


It's a stretch and your scenario is the more likely, but Taylor could be fortunate enough to kind of get the KO out of the way. It could have always been in the back of his mind and something that he was always afraid of, now that he has experienced it, he might be a little more settled in the ring and now he has got it over and done with.
caneman
i heard freddie roach is in as JT's trainer! i still think that JT will always drop his lthand & it's a matter of time vs the ghost IMO
stateofthegame
Roach will not be good for Jermain IMO, he is too laid back and Taylor needs some one to get on his ass. That is why I think Joe Goossen would be the way to go. Joe will not baby Jermain and he will shoot him straight in between rounds,
singletrack
QUOTE(stateofthegame @ Nov 16 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]365429[/snapback]
Roach will not be good for Jermain IMO, he is too laid back and Taylor needs some one to get on his ass. That is why I think Joe Goossen would be the way to go. Joe will not baby Jermain and he will shoot him straight in between rounds,


Yah, but Manny did shoot him straight in the Ouma fight, as an example, and it had zero effect on his performance. I think he is limited by his conditioning and poor defense/reflexes. I think that dictates a lot of what he does in the ring, regardless of the advice he is receiving.
BrutalBodyShots
Yup, corner advice can only take you so far when other issues like stamina can prevent you from carrying it out.

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