Caught another good card on ESPN Classic the other night... the program info said it was Margarito vs Kamau but the entire card was as follows:

From some outdoor place in California on June 16, 2000 in 106 degree sun:

Antonio Margarito vs David Kamau
Julio Diaz vs Gustavo Cuello
Martin Castillo vs Jose Sarabia
Kelly Pavlik vs Eric Tzand

All of the name fighters won of course, and all by stoppage which was entertaining. It was also Pavlik's first pro fight, so it was cool seeing his debut. If any of you see this listed on ESPN Classic I suggest you check it out!

Who's margarito??

I think he's the guy Mayweather is afraid to fight even though he would beat him.

Castillo finished his opponent with a huge left hook to the body... Atlas didn't give Castillo any credit at all for the shot - simply said that the opponent didn't show up. Even when watching the replay, you can see it was a MONSTER body shot, perfectly placed and Atlas again was like "it was nothing special..." I thought he was way off on that call.

What's this about margherita pizza? Just cheese? Too boring IMO. I personally like hawian and capricciosa with anchovies.

the guy who will fight cotto next if it ain't PBF

LOL...

Someone Cotto fans will end up hating.

I dont think Margarito beats Cotto....Margarito looks like a monster against Shotgun Gomez and Golen Johnson, but come on dude those dudes are former lgithweights who got KOed by Mosley a decade ago. And come on, Golden Johnson? The only time Margarito looked like the monster everyone makes him out to be is against Kermit Cintron who is good but not elite. The two biggest fights of Margarito's career was the Williams fight and the Santos rematch. Both close losses. Margairto is slow with little defense, and I honestly dont think I'd favor him over a skilled, big puncher like Cotto. Both would have a chance to stop each other.

The Golden Johnson fight has nothing to do with my pick of Margarito over Cotto. I always thought he was wrong for Miguel Cotto...still do.

He is bigger, stronger, has better stamina, a better chin, a higher workrate, and heavier hands. No, he is not nearly as skilled, or tight with his shots, or crisp but in order for Cotto to land, he will have to get into the belly of the beast, and in doing so, I think he gets out worked and eventually stopped. As for the Williams and Santos fights...I am not really sure of the relevance here. Williams is 9 inches taller than Cotto, and Santos is a 6'0" southpaw who was fighting at home, and was being walked down and beaten when the ref decided to go to the cards because of the cut. In either case, the fights were extremely close, with most feeling he got jobbed against Santos.

Cotto cannot take it as well as Margarito, and that will be the difference in this fight in my opinion.

...LOL @ Big G with his new Miguel Cotto Avatar.

George - You've got to be kidding me with that avvy and the new found love. Unfucking believeable. LOL. The biggest sunshine soldier to ever hit the boards. What happened to your boy, Zaheer Rahim?

and if it "ain't" DLH.

This is not the first time I've had a Cotto avy. His one of the fighters I've basically followed since the beginning of his career. He has been molded into a P4P fighter...why not jhave him as my avy since my boys Morales, Hopkins are on the way out? And I've only constantly had a few guys as my avy (Cotto, Morales, Judah, Montie, Hopkins, Tyson). I just change alot



That's true....But then again, I don't know when Margarito has ever been in there with an accurate heavy handed puncher such as Cotto.

But Margarito's toughness can't be questioned.....the man took some bombs from Cintron.

All I know is, it would be a great night of boxing if Cotto-Margarito ever fight. Cotto right now, along with Juan Diaz, is the best young new star to watch.

Either way, who wouldn't love to see this fight?

Ummmm...what about the Clottey fight? A guy of comparable size to Cotto, weaker, less skilled, and he was able to make Margarito look like dogshit and drop his output. Expect Tony to look much worse against Cotto.

I would, I just want Cotto to fight PBF first.

It's cool man, you can even be an honorary Puerto Rican...I'll give you all the good curse words : P

G...read your last post...

In one breath you say this:

"I don't know when Margarito has ever been in there with an accurate heavy handed puncher such as Cotto."

In another you say this:

But Margarito's toughness can't be questioned.....the man took some bombs from Cintron.

There is no way Cotto punches as hard as Cintron. Yes, Cotto may be more accurate, but Cintron can flat out crack...and Margarito walked right through him.

Nonetheless we can agree it would be an awesome fight for the fans. I just do not see Cotto being able to box all night, and I do not see him being able to stand in the trenches with Margarito either. Skillwise it is clear who the better fighter is, but there is much more to look at here in my opinion.

What about the Clottey fight?

Clottey is noticeably bigger than Cotto. He is 2 1/2 inches taller, and he was a light heavy when he stepped in the right against Corrales...they are not all that comparable in size.

Further, Clottey is not weaker than Cotto at all, in fact, I would bet that he is stronger...and he has a much better chin, his defense is good, he has a good jab, his handspeed is better, he has a longer reach and he has terrific stamina. Before this fight, I actually thought that Clottey had a better than average chance of winning against Margarito and said as much. Clottey claims he hurt his hands, yet more than a few think he just folded under the pressure in there en route to a decision loss. So what exactly about Clottey? Again, not sure I see the parallel.

Cintron loads up the big right hand....Cotto throws punches in combinations and would be hitting Margarito alot more frequenlty. Yeah I forgot about Cintron...he is a monster puncher for sure, but that guy definitely lacks heart.

The way I see it, Cotto's style somewhat suits Margartio. I mean, it seems like it would take a very slick boxer to outpoint him..someone with quick hands, quick feet, solid skills. Or a freak like Paul Williams. Cotto is not all that fast, he has outside skills, decent D, and he will fight Margarito straight up on the inside. Cintron has no heart man. Aside from the right hand, the man had nothing that night and folded as soon as Margarito started doing his thing. Cotto will bang with Margrito and he will throw shots in combinations...and although Cotto might not be a big puncher like Cintron, he is heavy handed, and he usually gives opponents beatings.

Either way, it would be war...Chico-Castillo type shit. I could see both guys tasting canvas. Alot of punishment would be dished out.

I'd like to see Cotto fight Floyd next because I personally think Cotto is better then anyone PBF has ever beaten....

And on punching power, I'd give the edge to Cotto over Clottey. Clottey could not take out a SHOT ass Chico (RIP) after landing about 200 hundred flush shots. I believe that had Cotto OR Tony Margarito fought Chico that night, they would have had him out of there by 5.

Cintron lacks the fighting spirit Cotto has...no doubt. But Cintron can hit Margarito and be out of harms way, plus, what he hits usually ends up being wrecked. For Cotto to land in combination, he will hand to stand in front of Margarito - and as soon as he gets hit, he will want to get his.

Like I said, Cotto cannot back up all night, and he will want to fight...that will be the undoing in my opinion because of the stamina and the ability to take punishment. Margarito just seems to be above him in both cases. This is really a case of styles from my perspective.

Punching power and strength are two different things. Cotto is a better puncher than Clottey in all likelihood, but he is not physically stronger.

As for Floyd...I don't know what he will do next. He really is stuck, because there are good, important, marketable fights against real welters waiting for him - and the Cotto fight is on top of that list right now.

I think he can box all night and chose when to get in there with Margarito. The HUGE problems that Cotto presents for Tony is his solid output and quicker hands. Tony has shown time and time again that he has problems countering and his output drops seriously when his opponent is first and has good output. Secondly, he doesn't throw enough straight shots and uppercuts, which are the best weapons against Cotto. Cotto is not going to trade with Margarito, and he has much faster hands. You'll see them get in close, Cotto rattle off a 2-4 punch combo and then move, or keep piling it on while Margarito takes it. Tony waits for his opponent to stop throwing before he brings any offense. That was basically the recipe Paul Williams used and his punches don't do anywhere near the damage Cotto's do. Look at his face after that fight - he looked like he had been sparing.

Look for Cotto to be first all night, get in and out, move, and dominate Margarito. The damage to the body will also add up and affect Tony's output in the later rounds.

Even if this were a close fight, which I don't see happening, Tony needs a KO to win because he is not going to get the decision in PR. No way - period. My advice to Tony would be to come out wild and try everything to crush Cotto in the head, short of that I don't see him having a legitimate shot. He is in with a much more skilled, and intelligent fighter and it will be obvious right from the start.

Cotto does not have the stamina to do what you propose against Margarito all night, nor will his fighting spirit allow him to.

He has the skillset, but his stamina will be a problem. From the 9th round on against Mosley, Cotto was very, very tired regardless what he said - and Mosley did not put the same kind of pressure on him that Margarito would.

This fight would be VERY entertaining, I just always thought Margarito's style, size, workrate, stamina, and ability to walk through punishment was wrong for Cotto. As for the decision, I think you are 100% correct, no way does Margarito get a close nod...and the odds are that Cotto would bank early rounds, but I do not see it going 12 - I see Cotto stopped late. Where I do disagree is the thought that Margarito has no shot - LOL...I saw Cotto on queer street from Chop Chop Corley and Ricardo Torres, Margarito can get him in the same place...or more likely, just wear him down.

Clottey does not have better hand speed than Cotto - no way based on what I've seen. As for the size difference, all I have to go off of is what is recorded in various locations - tale of the tape, boxrec, etc. I don't see anywhere that lists Clottey as being 2.5" taller than Cotto. So if that is true, than that is news to me. Cotto has a better jab than Clottey based on what I've seen as well, and he has shown great stamina as well.

The point is that Clottey, whom I consider to be an inferior fighter to Miguel in several areas, was able to significantly neutralize Margarito with a fairly simple formula. I expect Cotto to do a much better job. Cotto has shown he can brawl or box and that he will do whichever it takes to win against a particular opponent at a particular time in the fight. So I expect him and his team to do the right things to beat Margarito - always be first, high output, don't trade with a big puncher, etc.

Nah man I think Clottey has quicker hands then Cotto...slightly. Clottey doesn't really have big power, decent, but nothing big. his left hand is just really quick. And he has a good tight gaurd.

I don't see where you get the stamina thing from. I saw Cotto move very well in the later rounds of the fight against Mosley. It takes a lot of stamina to box the way he did. As for the fighting spirit, I think Cotto learned a big lesson in the Abdulaev fight, the Judah fight, and the Mosley fight...among others. He has said that he doesn't need to be better at "x y and z" vs. his opponent, he just needs to be smarter. I think he will use the right tools for the job. In this case, the right tools are not to stand in front of Margarito and give him space while they trade. He will end up on the canvas like in the Torres fight, and he and his team know this.

More importantly I do not see Tony doing the damage that Mosley did. Those were crushing body shots thrown at high speed. Tony will look like he is under water compared to Mosley.

As for the work rate, I think it will be way below his average as we saw in the Clottey fight and the Williams fight. Both guys neutralized Tony's high volume punching, and I expect Cotto to do the same thing and with MORE power than either of them. I'm also curious to see how the tall, EXTREMELY low bodyfat, Margarito deals with crushing shots to the liver.

LOL...Cotto is NOT 5'7", he is lucky if he is 5'6", look at him standing next to Zab Judah.



Clottey is a hair above 5'8"...and he DID weigh 170 pounds when he entered the ring against Corrales. This is not conjecture.

To say that Cotto has superior handspeed to Clottey is a little silly...have you seen much of Clottey? Clottey has quite fast hands, and a better reach, . Could it be similar or close...sure. But, Clottey is bigger, and has better stamina, better handspeed, and a better chin...have you ever seen Clottey tire at all? I haven't.

Size does matter you know.

As for where I get the stamina thing from...well...this past week, and a few fights at 140. Cotto was spent late in that fight, he had nothing in the tank in the 12th, and he fell off sharply in the 9th - everyone ringside noticed to it and commented on it. To his credit, he won the 11th on my card, but his stamina was not on the level of what you are proposing.

That's it.

Yah you guys are probably right about his hands actually...that statement I made isn't correct.

Also, Lovemore NDou had Cotto backing up ALOT more then Shane did....That was the undercard of Pac-Marquez. Watch that fight.

I didn't know Clottey came in at 170. Cotto routinely came in at 157-160 for his 140lb fights, so it wouldn't surprise me if he weighed 165-170 for his 147 fights.

I thought he was 5'7. It's hard to know because promoters play with the stats. Do you think Tony is really 5'11? You said 9" difference - where does that come from?



Yah you are right now that I go back and look at some other tape. And no, I've only seen a few of his fights.

That was a long ass time ago and at a different weight and maturity level. It's a data point, but I don't see how it is directly related here. I saw the fight, but it was a loooong time ago - I remember bits and pieces at best. Got a link? I should probably just bite the bullet and buy one of his disks with all his career fights...

Clottey has not fought at 140 in what, 9 years? And that was as a prospect, he has really always settled in at 147...and probably belongs at 154. And yeah...he did weight 170 the night of the Corrales fight, he is a real big welter...

http://www.maxboxing.com/Fischer/Fischer0408a07.asp
Not that Corrales was worried about it. Despite the fact that Clottey put on 21 pounds after the Friday weigh-in (going from 149 to 170 pounds on fight night)

As for Cotto, I thought he weighed under 160 for the Judah fight...I just do not see his frame sustaining an additional 20 pounds over night, you know? The 9 inch difference was Paul Williams to Cotto...and that is a rough guess; figure what...8 0r 9 inches sounds about right.

I would think that Margarito is a little over 5'10". I just happen to know with Cotto and Judah because I stood next to Zab Judah, and I am a little under 6'0", and the dude was 5 inches shorter than me, and when standing next to Cotto, he was noticeably taller.

Understand, I don't think your crazy for thinking Cotto wins here...I just do not agree. I just think you are crazy for thinking it would be a walk over.

I think both Clottey and Margarito would give Cotto a hell of a fight.

I'd take Margarito over Cotto but Cotto over Clottey - but both would be very competitive, action fights.

Gotcha - thanks for the info/clarification. As for Cotto, I think he puts on a ton of weight. Look at the weigh in at the Mosley fight vs. how he looked IN the fight. It looked like his arms grew 2-3"! I think the carb depletion/loading just blow him up dramatically; the same must be true for Clottey. I know he came into the Corley fight at 157. Considering how much more muscular he is now, and that he is a welter now, 160+ seems very reasonable to me.

I'm 6'4, so when I do get close to welterweights, all I can determine is that they are reallyfuckingsmall in comparison.

I'm part crazy Puerto Rican so that may explain the disconnect ; ) I don't think it will be a total cake walk, Margarito will have his moments, but I think Cotto will beat him convincingly and Tony will not "look himself".

See, I didn't think Cotto looked that much different for the Mosley fight...not like his days at 140. I mean, yeah, he gained weight, but not like night and day. I certainly think entering the ring at 160...161...162 is reasonable, just not the 170 we spoke about earlier - I really do not think he frame could handle it like Cottey's could, you know? I think now he is not as dried out when he weighs-in, so he may only be a few pounds heavier on fight night. I mean, 2 weeks before the Mosley fight he was at something like 152 or so from what I recall.

And nah man...you are not crazy Puerto Rican at all...you aee just a dude supporting your fighter who happens to be Puerto Rican as well. The crazy Puerto Rican dudes seemed to gravitate more to Tito...they were called Trinididiots, and they were freaking looped.

I'll settle on low 160s with you ; ) Clottey is a MUSCULAR guy, so he definitely has the ability to gain a lot more water and carb weight, so it makes sense.



HAHAHAHA. That's funny. There were these Trinidiots (yes, I'll use that from now on) sitting in front of us at the Mosley fight. They were just totally out of control - standing whenever they felt like it, blocking our view with the flag, calling Mosley a "pato" (fag), and other assorted bullshit. I don't look Puerto Rican at all, but I speak Puerto Rican Spanish (big difference vs. any other kind) very well. So I say to the guy in Spanish, "hey friend, do you think you could sit down because my brother and father can't see, thanks!". He looked at me like I was a fucking alien. I don't think you need to speak the local language to be proud of your heritage, but when you act like an asshole and all you know is how to call someone a "fag", then you deserve to get bitch slapped. He sat down like a dog with its tail between its legs.

I'm kinda thinking this as well. However, Cotto has surprised me on many occasions, so I would not be surprised if he were able to actually hurt and stop Margarito. The way Cotto holds his guard up and his head down makes it hard for punchers like Margarito to get through. Fast straight shots are the one's most likely to penetrate Cotto. But if you are right, and Cotto's shots have little to no affect on Margarito, then Margarito will pressure Cotto to a stoppage I am thinking. But I am not sure. Margarito is slow and I can see Cotto working effectively off the ropes as well. But the way Margarito has been looking, I would edge him to win this one. I can see this going a few ways. I really hope this one comes to fruition. It should, cause Cotto will not duck anyone and Margarito wants anyone and everyone, so as long as the promoters don't fuck this up, I believe we will be able to see this one soon.

I think Margarito would KO Cotto. Clottey would beat him something like 116-112 or wider.

I watched this card also. Hardly recognized Pavlik with hair!!!

Boxingjunkie