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Full Version: Vargas doesn't look as bad as I expected
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BrutalBodyShots
http://www.fightnews.com/vargas_bjm.jpg


Not that I expected him to still look like the fat ass that he was at the press conference when he removed his shirt like an idiot, but I didn't think he'd look very good at all especially considering the weight this fight is being fought at.

ROLL DEEP
Yeah, he looks in pretty good shape.


Can't beleive he took his shirt off when he did....hahaha, what a dumbass.
BigG
Fatnando looks decent.....I got feeling he might beat Mayorga. Then again he looked like crap vs. Mosley last time.....could easily see him going to sleep. Mayorga has looked like crap since moving up to face Tito....This should be a fun fight while it lasts.
singletrack
Yup, he looks better than I expected. But Mayorga is looking pretty good too.

Excellent coverage on the fight FH - THANKS!
thehype
Damn...ya'll can at least post some links to our own content.

laugh.gif

Here's more pics:

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content1347.html

Or better yet, here's video from his open workout:

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content1339.html
PUERTOROCKS
Vargas should will this fight based on his skills.
Method
Looks like a punch drunk Mexican...

BrutalBodyShots
He does look like he took down a good 7 or 8 shots of tequila before his workout.

JD
LOL...Mayorga is going to knock Paquita la Del Barrio out.
Douchebag
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 16 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]365480[/snapback]
LOL...Mayorga is going to knock Paquita la Del Barrio out.



Mayorga in 5.
singletrack
No man can lose a fight with a mustache that tough.
Tha Docta
mayorga could be in trouble at this weight. fernando can carry the weight better than mayorga. i cant imagine that either of these guys is gonna look good though.

i thought fernando used up all of his energy just trying to make weight against mosley.

i just wish mayorga was a better fighter cause that guy makes me laugh my ass off.
thehype
I'm taking Mayorga by stoppage.

I know Vargas says he's doing this one for pride, but from what I hear, the real reason why he's doing it is because his financial advisors informed him that it would be in his best interest to take at least one more fight. I just don't think Vargas has anymore fight left in him. Heck, even in those videos he's talking more about his "business ventures" and "investments" than he is talking about the fight. That's a bad sign.
BrutalBodyShots
I still think regardless of weight that Mayorga at this stage can take punishment better than Vargas can. They are both going to land clean punches, the question is who will fold first. I just think Mayorga has a little more left and is a hair fresher - but that isn't saying much.


Tha Docta
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 16 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]365494[/snapback]
I still think regardless of weight that Mayorga at this stage can take punishment better than Vargas can. They are both going to land clean punches, the question is who will fold first. I just think Mayorga has a little more left and is a hair fresher - but that isn't saying much.



i hear ya. but i just cant shake the image of mayorga getting completely rattled by delahoyas power. i cant remember the last time an opponent of delahoyas was knocked around like that. the man has decent power, but not the superhuman power he showed vs mayorga. makes me think mayorgas chin has been broken beyond repair.

i just dont think mayorga possesses any kind of power over 147 lbs. but this should be an interesting fight.
AussieLad
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Nov 16 2007, 09:37 PM) [snapback]365506[/snapback]
i hear ya. but i just cant shake the image of mayorga getting completely rattled by delahoyas power. i cant remember the last time an opponent of delahoyas was knocked around like that. the man has decent power, but not the superhuman power he showed vs mayorga. makes me think mayorgas chin has been broken beyond repair.

i just dont think mayorga possesses any kind of power over 147 lbs. but this should be an interesting fight.


I think a guy with a normally very good chin can be put on his ass if he leaves it hanging out exposed, and takes a flush shot from a decent puncher. Delahoyas left hook is his best punch. Reminds me a bit of when darchinyan got starched. Never been down in the amateurs or professional ranks, then takes a sweet hard shot flush on the jaw from a punch he didnt see coming and its goodnight sweetheart.

That being said, mayorga should have tried to resist moving up divisions He can no longer overwhelm his opponents, and he is the smaller man vs vargas. And i agree with tha docta that mayo doesnt really have the pop at this weight.

Its a case of both guyings being shot, neither having good defence. Its going to be a slugfest, and so i will go with the bigger man

Vargas by KO
X3_Bazooka_X3
Of course Vargas is going to look in shape, Why do you think they needed push the fight back? you dont really beleive that Vargas had legit Medical issues do you? I mean come one the man was comming down from 260 for this fight, to me he needed that extra time to make the weight properly, but lets see how he looks lately he has looked like shit, and while Mayorga hasnt looked his best lately he sure has looked alot better than Vargas
Nay_Sayer
What's the word out of Nando's camp?
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 16 2007, 07:40 PM) [snapback]365528[/snapback]
Of course Vargas is going to look in shape, Why do you think they needed push the fight back? you dont really beleive that Vargas had legit Medical issues do you? I mean come one the man was comming down from 260 for this fight, to me he needed that extra time to make the weight properly, but lets see how he looks lately he has looked like shit, and while Mayorga hasnt looked his best lately he sure has looked alot better than Vargas


260? Got a source to that number?

Fitz
I just want to say how gay Fernando Vargas tattoo is.
Warlord
As much as I love Vargas, I just absolutely can't have any faith in him to win anymore. Physically he is not even a shell of the fighter he used to be. The image of him stumbling around the ring, trying desperately but vainly to rise up from the ground after his KO at the hands of Shane Mosely just keeps playing over and over in my mind. I'll root for Fernando whenver, wherever, but the truth of the matter is that everything he once was has been left behind in the ring after those brutal wars with Trinidad and De La Hoya.

Mayorga, on the other hand, is not exactly the freshest fighter in the world either. He's been fucked up by the best of them, maybe even more brutally than Vargas was. I think the best we can hope for is that these two guys can stay taped together and intact long enough to put up a good scrap, and then ride off into the sunset as two proud warriors who always fought the good fight, regardless of circumstance.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Fitz @ Nov 17 2007, 03:32 AM) [snapback]365556[/snapback]
I just want to say how gay Fernando Vargas tattoo is.


It looks like it should be around some chicks thigh at a wedding, not on his arm.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Warlord @ Nov 17 2007, 03:35 AM) [snapback]365557[/snapback]
As much as I love Vargas, I just absolutely can't have any faith in him to win anymore. Physically he is not even a shell of the fighter he used to be. The image of him stumbling around the ring, trying desperately but vainly to rise up from the ground after his KO at the hands of Shane Mosely just keeps playing over and over in my mind. I'll root for Fernando whenver, wherever, but the truth of the matter is that everything he once was has been left behind in the ring after those brutal wars with Trinidad and De La Hoya.

Mayorga, on the other hand, is not exactly the freshest fighter in the world either. He's been fucked up by the best of them, maybe even more brutally than Vargas was. I think the best we can hope for is that these two guys can stay taped together and intact long enough to put up a good scrap, and then ride off into the sunset as two proud warriors who always fought the good fight, regardless of circumstance.


I believe that Vargas sustained more punishment in his 22+ rounds against Trinidad and DLH than Mayorga did in his 13+ rounds against the same two guys.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 17 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]365565[/snapback]
I believe that Vargas sustained more punishment in his 22+ rounds against Trinidad and DLH than Mayorga did in his 13+ rounds against the same two guys.

True And that's not even including the 15+ rounds of punishment he took last year versus Mosley, getting his eye lumped up and then getting KTFO, whereas outside of the Tito/Oscar fights, Mayorga's been relatively unscathed the past few years. I mean, he may have gotten the L against Cory Spinks, but he sure didn't take any punishment.

In their primes, Vargas would have owned Mayorga, would have knocked him out and spat on him like he did Ross Thompson. And I would have loved to see it. But in 2007, I've got to go with Mayorga by mid round KO as well.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 17 2007, 12:20 AM) [snapback]365554[/snapback]
260? Got a source to that number?



Fightnews reported this a while back just before they announced this fight infact it was Vargas himself who told fightnews that he got as high as 264 in a interview, I cant find the column now but its true, and looking at those pictures of Vargas when he was huge it supports that idea that he was that fat, damn look at him in that picture wrapping his hands he still looks fat to me.
X3_Bazooka_X3
I would say this is around 264 right here if you dont think this is atleast in the 230s your fucking crazy
Snoop
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 17 2007, 04:50 PM) [snapback]365564[/snapback]
It looks like it should be around some chicks thigh at a wedding, not on his arm.

Oh for a second I thought he was talking about the one of his kids' faces. I was going to say "that's fucked up man". Unless you were Fitz...then that's fucked up man.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 17 2007, 12:20 AM) [snapback]365554[/snapback]
260? Got a source to that number?



here is another source
http://www.maxboxing.com/fischer/fischer082407.asp





Fernando Vargas and Sergio Mora don’t have much in common as far as their personalities are concerned, but the two Southern California-based middleweights who are both in action next month do share one thing (actually one person) in common when it comes to their training camps – Robert Ferguson.

The well-regarded weight-loss guru, who has recently made a name for himself in boxing as a nutritionist/strength and conditioning coach, is in charge of helping Vargas and Mora make their fighting weight in the healthiest manner possible while preparing their bodies for the physical rigors of the prize ring.

So if Vargas looks sluggish while slugging it out with Ricardo Mayorga on Sept. 8th or Mora peters out while duking it out with Kassim Ouma on Sept. 15th, you know who’s to blame – the one black guy in both the Mexican-American boxers’ teams. (Sorry Robert, you know I’m just kidding.)

Seriously, there won’t be any need for the blame game next month. Ferguson, who has also worked with Samuel Peter, Lucia Rijker, Steve Forbes and Alfonso Gomez, is damn good at what he does; and he’s more than proved himself and his worth to both Vargas and Mora.

Ferguson has been a member of ‘the Ferocious Squad’ since the camp for Vargas’s bout vs. Raymond Joval in early 2005. He joined Mora’s tightly knit ‘Snake Pit’ before Mora’s encounter with Archak TerMeliksetian last May.

Going into the Joval fight, Vargas had taken all of 2004 off to deal with a chronic back problem and thyroid disorder. As anyone who is familiar with ‘El Feroz’ can guess, the weight of the former two-time junior middleweight titlist had spiraled out of control. Ferguson got Vargas down to the contracted 162 pounds without “drying” him out and without compromising his stamina, which was needed to fend off the ultra-busy and naturally bigger Joval en route to a 10-round decision victory.

Going into the TerMeliksetian bout, Mora was known as a quick but punchless boxer who was prone to getting sick during his camps (so much so that his training and his bouts were often scheduled to factor in a missing week or two due to illness). Mora, who hadn’t scored a knockout in his past six bouts, brought Ferguson in to help increase his physical strength for grueling fights.

‘The Latin Snake’ got up from a second-round knockdown to stop TerMeliksetian in the seventh with a brutal barrage of punches, and not only gained stamina in the middle rounds of the bout but appeared to be the stronger of the two fighters.

“I also told Sergio that he would never get sick again before a fight,” Ferguson said proudly. “He was never a sickly person. He was just nutrient deficient like a lot of boxers.”

Ferguson, a doctoral candidate in sports psychology who holds certifications in performance nutrition and personal training AND is a former combat athlete, views boxers and watches the sport with a different eye than most of us.

For instance, where most observers will watch Jermain Taylor’s recent fights and assess (like a bunch of armchair Eddie Futches) that the middleweight champ’s technique has regressed, and where some wannabe psychologists (like one Freud Fischer) pontificate on how the Arkansas native may have lost his confidence, Ferguson only sees an athlete who has strained his body to make the 160-pound limit and is fighting accordingly in order to conserve his limited stamina over the 12-round distance.

He also has an interesting perspective of both Vargas and Mora.

Ferguson is somehow simultaneously coaching Vargas in Valencia and Mora in Montebello. Earlier this week, I sat down with him for lunch at the Simply Wholesome health food restaurant on West Slauson Avenue (which is thankfully within walking distance of Casa Del Fischer) to talk about his role and his take on both fighters whom he described as “totally different and extremely unique” individuals.

“Fernando is married with four kids; his mother lives close by and is over to the house a lot along with his many friends,” he said. “With Fernando, everything is about family. He loves to be surrounded by his family, and his team, the Squad, is family, too. His camp is an extension of his family.

“With Fernando, I work with him every day. I play a major role in the camp. I’m his friend, his full-time nutritionist, I’m his conditioning coach, I help with the sparring, etc.

“Sergio is different. He’s more independent and he’s more introverted. He’s definitely OK to sit by himself and read a book or watch a deep philosophical movie. He doesn’t have a big training team. He has ‘the Pit’. It’s just him, John [Montelongo] and Dean [Campos]. I’m the fourth wheel. I come in three days a week and do my thing and then get out. Those three have a special bond together that’s beautiful. They don’t do anything unless all three are 100% in agreement. The week of a fight they all go into the zone. They don’t even have to talk to communicate. I love that. They’re old school like that.”

With Mora, Ferguson’s work is focused on the physical strength and conditioning.

“Sergio wanted to be stronger and he didn’t want to worry about making weight,” he said.

“In the gym we work on building strength, but it has to be dynamic because that’s Sergio. He has a very particular, unorthodox style that works for him. Speed and footwork is important, so I have him doing stuff you would see a hockey player do – his workouts incorporate a lot of lateral movement. There’s a lot of focus on leg and hip strength, so we do a lot of Olympic lifts and power cleans.

“For the boxers I train, I look at the strengths of my client’s opponents and I get them ready for it with specific training. For Kassim Ouma, Sergio has to be ready for constant pressure and high volume punching. He’s going to need quick recovery time and he’s going to need to have his power down the stretch of the fight.

“There’s a workout I created for Sergio called ‘When the Fight’s Gone Bad’ and Sergio loves it. The purpose of the workout is to make you feel like a fighter does late in a tough fight; it mimics the grueling fight experience.

“People don’t think Sergio is a strong or powerful fighter. They’re wrong. You’re going to see more displays of power from him in future fights.”

Ferguson says Mora, The Ring magazine’s no. 10-rated middleweight, could easily make the junior middleweight limit of 154 pounds.

“Getting Sergio’s weight under control was easy,” he said. “I’m not very hands on with the nutritional side of his training because he follows that to a tee. I can tell him what to eat and when to eat it over the phone and he understands.”

Vargas is an entirely different story.

“Vargas likes to eat, man,” Ferguson says laughing.

[size="5"][/size]Following his second stoppage loss to Shane Mosley last year, the Oxnard native who now makes his home in Camarillo briefly retired and ballooned up to an unhealthy 264 pounds before deciding that he wanted to fight one more time.

“That was in January,” said Ferguson. “We knew it would be Mayorga because Fernando has had it out for him ever since the [Javier] Castillejo fight, but the fight wasn’t set and we didn’t even have a date yet.

“But it didn’t matter. Fernando had made up his mind that he was going to fight again, so we packed up and set up camp in Ojai, California, about 50 miles east of Ventura, and in two months we knocked off 40 pounds.”

The pre-camp wasn’t just about weight loss. Vargas, who had gone AWOL for a couple of weeks prior to his rematch with Mosley, had lost a lot of muscle.

“He weighed 184 pounds 24 days before the second fight with Shane,” Ferguson said. “We got him down to 154, but that was the fight right there, making the contracted weight. Thank God he’s fighting at 162 pounds for Mayorga. Still, the challenge at the start of the year was getting his muscle back.

“The first thing I had to do was get his food under control. I got him on a schedule of eating every three hours. He could eat his favorite foods, like lasagna and pizza, but he had to cut out the junk like candy and sweets.

“Then we started having fun. I had him playing basketball, hitting the track, doing hikes and even swimming. He said he hadn’t swam in years, but after a month he thought he was the Mexican Mark Spitz.

“I had him running the bleachers at the track, jogging three-quarter laps and sprinting the final 100 meters, before moving up to running two to four 200 meter and 400 meter intervals. He was 220 pounds and he was movin’!

“We did everything but boxing. We didn’t watch tapes and we didn’t talk boxing. We had a blast, and we laughed a lot.”

Vargas returned home in March and continued the gradual lifestyle change that enabled him to continue losing weight.

“We worked out of his home gym and a local 24-hour club, something he used to be against. It was more of the same but with a few more pleasures since he was back with his wife and kids. But we substituted Patrón for wine, and I did the recipes for all of his meals.”

Vargas’s camp for Mayorga began in earnest a couple of weeks before the kick-off press conference at the STAPLES Center on July 12th. His weight is currently around the low 170s, high 160s and he’s reportedly looking sharp in sparring.

“He’s got three guys that he’s sparring with right now; yesterday he did 10 rounds,” said Ferguson. “His resting heart rate is 39. A good marathon runner’s resting heart rate is around 45. Your average fit guy who goes to the gym every day is around 50. The average American’s is 80.

“From a cardio standpoint, Fernando is ready to go. It’s all boxing right now.”

He says Mora is getting great gym work from main sparring partner James Kirkland, an explosive 154-pound prospect from Texas with a 19-0 (16) record.

“They both have to be ready for war because both Mayorga and Ouma are going to come in shape and they’re going to bring it,” said Ferguson. “But that’s OK. As different as they are, Fernando and Sergio have something in common – the more you push them the harder they fight back. Putting pressure on them only helps them.

“Vargas always has that fire. He’s pissed off and pumped up at the press conference all the way to the ring. Sergio has the same fire, but he keeps it under wraps until the fight. Once the boxing match becomes a battle, the ‘East L.A.’ in him comes out quick.”

Ferguson knows something about a warrior’s fire in the belly.

The Anderson, Indiana native who spent five years in the Marine Corps., and is a ‘Desert Storm’ veteran, has practiced Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu since ’92 and competed in Mixed Martial Arts bouts.

“I compiled a 10-2-1 MMA record,” said Ferguson, who used to fight with the rather flamboyant nickname of ‘the Prince of Leglocks’. “My last fight was vs. Dave Menne, the former UFC middleweight champ. It was a draw, but it was controversial. Most folks thought I won it. He weighed 191 pounds. I was 174. I took that fight for my speaking career. It was a real-life David vs. Goliath scenario that I could talk about and it worked out.”

Ferguson, who has written two books on dieting, ‘Fat That Doesn’t Come Back’ and ‘Conquering the Munchie Monster’, has made a living as a motivational speaker and healthy weight-loss specialist (which includes an educational website www.dietfreelife.com).

“Vargas got wind of me because of my philosophy of eating the foods you love and still losing weight,” he said, laughing. “Still, it took him a couple of years to reach out even though I live and have offices in Ventura. I later found out that’s why he waited. He told his friends ‘If he’s that good, he wouldn’t be living in the 805’.

“The first meeting I had with Fernando was bizarre. It was like something out of ‘the Sopranos’. We met in this board room at night, like around 8:30 p.m. It was all of the Ferocious Squad sitting and staring at me and Fernando sitting at the end of the table all blinged out eating pineapple slices. He ranted for 30 or 40 minutes about his struggle with weight and food and then abruptly turned it over to me and said ‘So whatta you got to say!?’

“I told him to work with me for 30 days. ‘I won’t charge you’ I said. Let’s see what happens. He wound up dropping 20 pounds that month, but the first day we worked together I called him up in the morning and told him that I wanted him to eat a big breakfast, something he hadn’t done in years when in training. I told him to eat a huge veggie omelette with two slices of toast with peanut butter and jam and I’ll be over.

“Before I could leave my place I got a call from Rolando Arellano, his manager at the time, he was like ‘Are you sure about this?’ On my way over Joe Pecora, an advisor then and now his manager, called and asked the same thing. Before I got there, Martha, now his wife, called and asked me ‘Are you SURE want me to cook this for Fernando?’

“I recall having his trainer Eduardo Garcia freak out because I had him drinking a lot of water in the days before a fight.”

You would think they feared that Vargas was going to explode or something.

“The first camp I had with his former trainer Danny Smith, it was getting close to fight time and I had Fernando eat a big bowl of pasta and Danny approached me in private saying ‘Hey man, are you sure about this? I mean, that’s a lot of food.’

“It wasn’t just Fernando’s team, its most trainers and managers. I guess they don’t trust what they don’t know or they’ve had bad experiences with nutritionists and conditioning coaches in the past. But I took it personally at first. I’m thinking to myself ‘What’s with these boxing people? Can’t they just let me do my job!? I don’t tell them how to manage or how to train their fighters’.

“But you know what, I prayed about it. And I really felt like this was where I needed to be.

“I feel like I’m here to help the fighters
BrutalBodyShots
Thanks for the link. Vargas in that picture certainly doesn't look 264 pounds. MAYBE 220-230 but nothing more. I think it would be very difficult for Vargas to reach 264 pounds with his frame, that's over 100 pounds above the weight he's been fighting at.

There was only 5 months between the 2 Mosley fights. IMO there's no way Vargas weighed 153.5... shot up to 264 and was back at 154 all in 5 months. 220-230 maybe, but not 264. Again just my opinion. And even if Vargas himself states he was "264" I call BS on him - he would have every reason to artifically inflate his weight to strengthen his thesis that the weight loss for Mosley II was what did him in.
Imperius3
I also think Vargas has taken more punishment than Mayorga, but I find it hard to pick Mayorga since he doesn't really have any skill. Can he even work a speed bag?

I think Vargas is gonna box his way to a victory in this one. If a war happens, I still think Vargas can get his straight punches inside those wide looping shots first.
kidbazooka1
This is pick em fight IMO both guys could put each other to sleep.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 18 2007, 03:36 AM) [snapback]365696[/snapback]
I also think Vargas has taken more punishment than Mayorga, but I find it hard to pick Mayorga since he doesn't really have any skill. Can he even work a speed bag?

I think Vargas is gonna box his way to a victory in this one. If a war happens, I still think Vargas can get his straight punches inside those wide looping shots first.


But at this stage is skill really what is needed to beat Vargas? I think not, but rather just the ability to land some solid shots to his chin. While Mayorga doesn't have skill, he does throw awkward shots that more than likely will catch Vargas clean at some point.

Also when you say Vargas is going to box his way to victory, are you implying that this fight goes the distance? Both men having been knocked out in their most recent outings and further deterioration of both from their primes would support that this fight is going to end inside the distance. From a betting standpoint I'd set the under at about 8.5 rounds at about -150.

moscow bear
exactly brutal, the odds of mayorga's victory are too good, imo.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 17 2007, 11:57 PM) [snapback]365692[/snapback]
Thanks for the link. Vargas in that picture certainly doesn't look 264 pounds. MAYBE 220-230 but nothing more. I think it would be very difficult for Vargas to reach 264 pounds with his frame, that's over 100 pounds above the weight he's been fighting at.

There was only 5 months between the 2 Mosley fights. IMO there's no way Vargas weighed 153.5... shot up to 264 and was back at 154 all in 5 months. 220-230 maybe, but not 264. Again just my opinion. And even if Vargas himself states he was "264" I call BS on him - he would have every reason to artifically inflate his weight to strengthen his thesis that the weight loss for Mosley II was what did him in.



I understand that its hard to beleive one could jump up that much in weight, but I dont doubt it at all, especially with Vargas notice how much weight he has put on after each loss he has took it seems that he gets depressed and likes to eat as a way of dealing with his depression.
That has been the biggest problem Vargas has had to deal with since his fight with Tito, he has put on huge ammounts of weight needing to take it off for another big fight, sooner or later that does catch up with you and it did in both Mosley fights especially the second fight of which to me Vargas didnt have anything on his shots and simply couldnt pull the trigger at all.
I beleive he was 264 I mean the article is right there for you to read I also beleive this is the reason the fight date was pushed back, they didnt have enough time to take off that kind of weight and be healthy enough to fight, it makes sense,However I still think even with the extra time its still an up hill battle for Vargas, how is he going to react when he gets hit? whats going to happen if he cant get Mayorga out of there early? the later rounds is a dangerous place for Vargas if he doesnt get Mayorga out of there early.
I think Mayorga stops him seriously, and potentially puts him in a hospital somewhere in LA, this is not a fight that should happen and in all honesty I fear for the well being of Vargas.
BrutalBodyShots
Anything is possible... I'd find it easier to believe if Vargas was 6' + tall but he's only about 5'10". You'd think if you went up to the 260's and back down on a frame like that the guy would have stretch marks on his skin and shit but everyone is different.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]365785[/snapback]
Anything is possible... I'd find it easier to believe if Vargas was 6' + tall but he's only about 5'10". You'd think if you went up to the 260's and back down on a frame like that the guy would have stretch marks on his skin and shit but everyone is different.



I know when you look at it along those terms sure its hard to beleive but I live in LA, Vargas is spotted every now and then in the night clubs well alot more so prior to his fight with DLH but take a look at James Toney he is about the same height as Vargas and then look at that fat picture of Fernando to me there really isnt much of a difference.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 18 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]365796[/snapback]
I know when you look at it along those terms sure its hard to beleive but I live in LA, Vargas is spotted every now and then in the night clubs well alot more so prior to his fight with DLH but take a look at James Toney he is about the same height as Vargas and then look at that fat picture of Fernando to me there really isnt much of a difference.


Toney is naturally a bigger guy than Vargas. Toney has much broader shoulders. They are very close in height, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vargas had greater reach (longer arms, less width across the shoulders). Toney's frame can support 260 pounds better than Vargas'. Obviously Toney is a fatass at 260, but Vargas would have to be downright obese. While I agree Vargas was fat in that picture, I wouldn't categorize him as obese. Again, just my opinion.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]365815[/snapback]
Toney is naturally a bigger guy than Vargas. Toney has much broader shoulders. They are very close in height, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vargas had greater reach (longer arms, less width across the shoulders). Toney's frame can support 260 pounds better than Vargas'. Obviously Toney is a fatass at 260, but Vargas would have to be downright obese. While I agree Vargas was fat in that picture, I wouldn't categorize him as obese. Again, just my opinion.



if you wouldnt categorize him as Obese something is wrong with you any medical Dr would say that in that picture Vargas is defently obese, my wife is a Dr and teaches at USC, and she does research in obesity so you can not sit back there and tell me that Vargas is not obese, his BMI would prove your entirely wrong Brutal.
Imperius3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]365768[/snapback]
But at this stage is skill really what is needed to beat Vargas? I think not, but rather just the ability to land some solid shots to his chin. While Mayorga doesn't have skill, he does throw awkward shots that more than likely will catch Vargas clean at some point.

Also when you say Vargas is going to box his way to victory, are you implying that this fight goes the distance? Both men having been knocked out in their most recent outings and further deterioration of both from their primes would support that this fight is going to end inside the distance. From a betting standpoint I'd set the under at about 8.5 rounds at about -150.


Yes, my official pick will be Vargas by a wide decision. Vargas boxes more than he brawls these days, and I don't think he will go to war when he knows he is capable of outboxing Mayorga. Even though there is bad blood, I bet Vargas knows he can teach Mayorga a lesson just by giving him a boxing lesson.

Vargas has been knocked out by three highly skilled fighters in Trinidad, DLH, and Mosley. All three are very fast and accurate. They don't stupidly come forward clubbing punches. They time and calculate their assault, which Mayorga doesn't really do. Mayorga has good power (although at this weight, maybe not), but from what we've seen it takes brutal punishment to take out Vargas. Mayorga will have to consistently land serious shots. However, I think Vargas can easily keep Mayorga at bay by simply using his jab and straight right hand.

Vargas UD.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 18 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]365818[/snapback]
Yes, my official pick will be Vargas by a wide decision. Vargas boxes more than he brawls these days, and I don't think he will go to war when he knows he is capable of outboxing Mayorga. Even though there is bad blood, I bet Vargas knows he can teach Mayorga a lesson just by giving him a boxing lesson.

Vargas has been knocked out by three highly skilled fighters in Trinidad, DLH, and Mosley. All three are very fast and accurate. They don't stupidly come forward clubbing punches. They time and calculate their assault, which Mayorga doesn't really do. Mayorga has good power (although at this weight, maybe not), but from what we've seen it takes brutal punishment to take out Vargas. Mayorga will have to consistently land serious shots. However, I think Vargas can easily keep Mayorga at bay by simply using his jab and straight right hand.

Vargas UD.


Though it makes sense what your saying Forrest to is a highley skilled boxer and Mayorga was able to find a way to beat him twice, I think it pretty much boils down to Vargas keeping his emotions in check if he can he has a great chance but this also depends on his health did taking off nearly 100 pounds have any effect on him, and did those fights with Mosley take what he had left out of him? if the answer is yes to either one of those Mayorga is not the guy you want to be fighting under those circumstances, he should have took a easy tune up fight first, he should have so that he and his people could get a good look at whats left, to me its a dangerous fight for the health and well being of Fernando, but he is a grown man he makes his choices, I just hope it isnt at the expence of his health or his life.
I hope in ways I am all wrong about this fight, but I get that feeling that Vargas is going to get seriously hurt here I hope and pray that I am wrong beleive me I do, but Mayorga is not the guy you want to fight when you have these kinds of questions at hand.
Imperius3
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 18 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]365821[/snapback]
Though it makes sense what your saying Forrest to is a highley skilled boxer and Mayorga was able to find a way to beat him twice, I think it pretty much boils down to Vargas keeping his emotions in check if he can he has a great chance but this also depends on his health did taking off nearly 100 pounds have any effect on him, and did those fights with Mosley take what he had left out of him? if the answer is yes to either one of those Mayorga is not the guy you want to be fighting under those circumstances, he should have took a easy tune up fight first, he should have so that he and his people could get a good look at whats left, to me its a dangerous fight for the health and well being of Fernando, but he is a grown man he makes his choices, I just hope it isnt at the expence of his health or his life.
I hope in ways I am all wrong about this fight, but I get that feeling that Vargas is going to get seriously hurt here I hope and pray that I am wrong beleive me I do, but Mayorga is not the guy you want to fight when you have these kinds of questions at hand.


I had Forrest beating Mayorga about 8-4 in the rematch so IMO that's null and void.

I think whatever Vargas has left, it's enough to take care of Mayorga. How much does Mayorga have left anyway?

The weight could be a factor, but keep in mind Vargas has been losing fat and not muscle. He probably won't be weight drained like he was at the lower weights.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 18 2007, 02:23 PM) [snapback]365835[/snapback]
I had Forrest beating Mayorga about 8-4 in the rematch so IMO that's null and void.

I think whatever Vargas has left, it's enough to take care of Mayorga. How much does Mayorga have left anyway?

The weight could be a factor, but keep in mind Vargas has been losing fat and not muscle. He probably won't be weight drained like he was at the lower weights.



Doesnt matter if he is lossing fat or not, lossisng one hundred pounds that quickly is going to have an effect on you one way or another especially when you put your body through what he is going to put his body through on friday, the early rounds IMO are Key for Vargas he either has to knock this man out early or do big enough damage to make it a factor down the strech if he cant its over.
I dont think Mayorga has lost as much as Vargas has simply becuase Mayorga doesnt balloon up in between fights the way Vargas does and that does and will have an effect on the performance of Vargas, However Mayorgas Beer drinking and smoking might also be a factor and it might just be a wash between the two all together, but IMO, I really beleive that Vargas is done this is a accident waiting to happen I just hope after Mayorga stops Vargas that Vargas is okay in terms of his health and I also hope we dont get a ref in there who will consider the heart of Vargas being that Southern California is his turf it might get him hurt worse.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 18 2007, 05:23 PM) [snapback]365835[/snapback]
I had Forrest beating Mayorga about 8-4 in the rematch so IMO that's null and void.


Actually it's not null and void when no one else in the world other than you or another Forrest-biased spectator had it 8-4 Forrest.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 18 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]365817[/snapback]
if you wouldnt categorize him as Obese something is wrong with you any medical Dr would say that in that picture Vargas is defently obese, my wife is a Dr and teaches at USC, and she does research in obesity so you can not sit back there and tell me that Vargas is not obese, his BMI would prove your entirely wrong Brutal.


I wouldn't say anything is wrong with me, just that our definitions of obese are different. No where in the definition of obese do I see it quantified; it would see that it is open to interpretation. Even if it were quantified in a more detailed definition, which I'm sure it is somewhere, there is no way to determine from a picture where Vargas falls.

o-bese (o-bes)adj. Extremely fat; grossly overweight.

MY interpretation is that Vargas is a fat 225-230 pounds in that pic, NOT obese. If you want to argue the other way that's fine.

Regardless I still maintain that Vargas wasn't 264 pounds in that picture, either way.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]365843[/snapback]
I wouldn't say anything is wrong with me, just that our definitions of obese are different. No where in the definition of obese do I see it quantified; it would see that it is open to interpretation. Even if it were quantified in a more detailed definition, which I'm sure it is somewhere, there is no way to determine from a picture where Vargas falls.

o-bese (o-bes)adj. Extremely fat; grossly overweight.

MY interpretation is that Vargas is a fat 225-230 pounds in that pic, NOT obese. If you want to argue the other way that's fine.

Regardless I still maintain that Vargas wasn't 264 pounds in that picture, either way.



and you just know this by looking at the picture? I cant say in that Picture he was either, but when his own conditioning coach and he himself admits as much how can you be in denial about it? either way about your definition of Obese from a medical stand point you are way off, that picture there clearly shows a very obese Vargas.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 18 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]365844[/snapback]
and you just know this by looking at the picture? I cant say in that Picture he was either, but when his own conditioning coach and he himself admits as much how can you be in denial about it? either way about your definition of Obese from a medical stand point you are way off, that picture there clearly shows a very obese Vargas.


No, I don't "know" by looking at the picture but I would hope that from looking at a picture I could roughly estimate the weight of an individual. I would estimate him to be 225-230 in that picture not 264. Maybe we should make a poll and see how many people think he's 264 in that pic. I think most would agree with my estimate more than 264. And I'm not in denial about anything, just giving my opinion.

IMO Vargas did not gain 110 pounds and lose 110 pounds (220 pounds of fluctuation) in 5 months. 5 months is roughly 150 days. So 220/150 = approx 1.5 pounds a day, or over 10 pounds a week. Short of being bed ridden for 5 months and unable to burn any calories at all while eating constantly I would find it very hard to believe someone would change their weight by greater than 10 pounds per week.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]365850[/snapback]
No, I don't "know" by looking at the picture but I would hope that from looking at a picture I could roughly estimate the weight of an individual. I would estimate him to be 225-230 in that picture not 264. Maybe we should make a poll and see how many people think he's 264 in that pic. I think most would agree with my estimate more than 264. And I'm not in denial about anything, just giving my opinion.

IMO Vargas did not gain 110 pounds and lose 110 pounds (220 pounds of fluctuation) in 5 months. 5 months is roughly 150 days. So 220/150 = approx 1.5 pounds a day, or over 10 pounds a week. Short of being bed ridden for 5 months and unable to burn any calories at all while eating constantly I would find it very hard to believe someone would change their weight by greater than 10 pounds per week.



But it does happen people do put on that kind of weight weather or not this is the case with Vargas the truth is no matter what his weight was in that picture he is clearly Obese and it can not help his situation at all any I am being truthful here, that doesnt mean Vargas is going to lose that just means its not going to help him one bit.
like I said I have doubted the medical issues with his internal bleeding from the get, I truely beleive he was having trouble lossing the weight so he bought himself more time.
Imperius3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]365842[/snapback]
Actually it's not null and void when no one else in the world other than you or another Forrest-biased spectator had it 8-4 Forrest.


No one else in the world? You might want to edit that. That fight was considered a robbery in many peoples' eyes. I don't know if the majority had it for Forrest or not. All I know is I scored that fight like I saw it.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 18 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]365857[/snapback]
No one else in the world? You might want to edit that. That fight was considered a robbery in many peoples' eyes. I don't know if the majority had it for Forrest or not. All I know is I scored that fight like I saw it.



I dont think anybody cried robbery after that fight, some felt Forrest should have gotten better on the cards the fight was close, but lets face is at that point Mayorga did a great job selling himself and his bad boy image to the public and the judges went for boxings newest bad boy in a close fight I cant argue the decison but the fight was close close enough to tilt the other way but I am not crying robbery both guys fought their fight.
Imperius3
No not highway robbery anyway. I thought Forrest was a clear winner though, as did many others. If memory serves me correctly I had it 8-4 or maybe 7-5.

You're right about the Mayorga hype at the time though. HBO was already on Mayorga's side. I remember Lampley saying something like, "Well Mayorga is 29 whereas Forrest is already on the dark side at the age of 32..." Almost as if they were hoping for a new young brawler to take over.
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