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Jack 1000
This thread is for our prefight discussion to Vargas-Mayorga. One of the more unusual things is that it is scheduled for a Friday night instead of on Saturday. What do you think is the reasoning for that? It's been a long time since we have had a Friday night boxing PPV. This fight really should be on HBO or Showtime. It is over-priced for $50 with the typical crappy undercard. But at least it figures to be entertaining. (Two former champion has beens with a punch, and bad chins!) No matter how long or short this fight is, the shit may hit the fan early. If the hype is at the level they are making it out to be, we could get a brawl during the staredown!

I see this fight either rounds 1-5 Mayorga Rounds 6-12 Vargas. If Vargas can avoid Mayorga's wild punches and his chin holds up, I think that he can win by a late stoppage. Mayorga is so much more "Wild Hype Man" than fighter. Shit, he was literally kissing Delahoya after getting manhandled by him, so I don't buy into the hype. On the basis of Vargas being a more "skilled" boxer, he should be able to win. Mayorga hasn't really been a "smart" fighter since the Vargas rematch. He talks all this shit and leavs his game plan in the locker room. Why shouldn't Vargas stop him late? All he has to do is be careful with his chin for the first 5 rounds and stay cool..............Vargas TKO 9.

When is the last time Mayorga won a big fight? Corey Spinks (Yes I thought he beat Mayorga, especially with the two point deductions, although one was BS.) If he and Vargas are loving each other after the fight, I will know that this fight was "all hype."

Jack

Administrator
gods son
Dj Necro will spank his mexicano monkey to this fight!!!

This will be played live free to the Uk peoples.

I have mayorga stopping vargass in mid rounds!
Tha Docta
no doubt that these two will be hugging and kissing at the end of this fight. i dont buy into mayorgas trash talk anymore, but the guy sure is hilarious.

if delahoya can stop mayorga in his tracks, then i have to believe that vargas can do the same. and since this fight is at this weight, i dont think mayorga is gonna hold up.

vargas wins KO 5
The CEO
I'm kinda hyped for this fight...rooting for Mayorga all the way...but I'm pretty sure Vargas is the less shot of the two.

Vargas by TKO (ref stoppage) in the 7th.
JD
Mayorga by stoppage.

In a battle of guys that cannot get out of the way of punches, give me the one with the better chin.
Byrd Man
both of these guys are embarrassments to the sport of Boxing and should just go away. That travesty at the weighin or whatever it was was just shameful. They put up a separator, and they're slamming on it and talking all this shit.

I wish both of them could get knocked out like in Rocky 2 (I think) when they both went down from a punch at the same time. Only in this dream scenario they would both stay down for the ten count and then they'd just go away from fighting altogether.

This kinda thing keeps Boxing away from the masses, because most common decency kinda people don't like this bullshit. Whether it's fake or not, that's going too far. You can have your little trash talk, and all, but when you take it far enough where you're trying to fight the other guy at a fucking promo for the fight, that's just too far.

It may all be a theatrical thing, but I don't care. If they never fought again I wouldn't shed a tear.
singletrack
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 20 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]366271[/snapback]
Mayorga by stoppage.

In a battle of guys that cannot get out of the way of punches, give me the one with the better chin.


LOL. What JD said.
BrutalBodyShots
I'm with single and JD on this one. At this stage of the game both can dish it out but IMO Mayorga is a little less shop worn and take it a little better. We know Mayorga can take bombs for a few rounds before submitting... Vargas on the other hand can't IMO.



Lil-lightsout
I am definately going with Mayorga, like others have already stated, he has the better chin. I don't see Vargas holding up to Mayorga's power. Early to mid round KO for the crazy one.
kidbazooka1
If Vargas can use his superior boxing skill to outbox Mayorga he'll be alright but if he stands and trades with him he'll get put to sleep.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(kidbazooka1 @ Nov 20 2007, 04:33 PM) [snapback]366316[/snapback]
If Vargas can use his superior boxing skill to outbox Mayorga he'll be alright but if he stands and trades with him he'll get put to sleep.



Get out of here with that, Damn are you serious? anyways, back on topic lets not forget a blown up Jr Welter weight had Vargas on his ass and almost out with one shot, that was Rivera, the only thing Ricardo needs to do is land one bomb on Vargas and the fight is over, the only chance Vargas has is to use that bigger size advantage in the first four or five rounds to get Mayorga out of there, if he cant do that in the early rounds that bigger size will no longer Matter Vargas will not have anything left in him.
Food for Thought, my guess is Vargas doesnt make the contracted weight, I have a feeling he will be a few pounds over he looks heavy to me
Mayorga wins this fight by knock out.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 20 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]366319[/snapback]
Get out of here with that, Damn are you serious? anyways, back on topic lets not forget a blown up Jr Welter weight had Vargas on his ass and almost out with one shot, that was Rivera...


Shit, how about a blown up lightweight in Mosley?

kidbazooka1
Relax bro I never said Vargas was Ali but he does have superior boxing skill compared to Mayorga and that is IMO his only way to win the fight.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(kidbazooka1 @ Nov 20 2007, 04:56 PM) [snapback]366324[/snapback]
Relax bro I never said Vargas was Ali but he does have superior boxing skill compared to Mayorga and that is IMO his only way to win the fight.



Well Vargas would need the skills that Mayweather or Whitaker has in order to win this, the mans chin doesnt happen to exsist anymore, so when you refer to his skill please take note that even though his skills are or were much better than that of Mayorga the man still gets hit and hit alot, not a good thing going into this fight knowing how bad he might end up.
its over for Vargas I just pray he doesnt get seriously hurt.
kidbazooka1
If I had to bet it would be on Mayorga by TKO but I won't be suprised if Vargas pulls out a decision.
BigG
Prime for Prime I'd pick Vargas by wide decision or late stoppage.

Now I'll go with Mayorga....
The CEO
Man...y'all think Vargas is more shot than Mayorga...that surprises me...hope you're right.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Nov 21 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]366391[/snapback]
Man...y'all think Vargas is more shot than Mayorga...that surprises me...hope you're right.



im surprised as well. did everyone forget that mayorga made delahoya look like a devastating puncher?? i cant remember the last time a fighter reacted like that to delahoyas power. im not so sure that mayorga has more left in the tank than vargas.
singletrack
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Nov 21 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]366399[/snapback]
im surprised as well. did everyone forget that mayorga made delahoya look like a devastating puncher?? i cant remember the last time a fighter reacted like that to delahoyas power. im not so sure that mayorga has more left in the tank than vargas.


Yah but he took HUGE bombs from DLH and Tito before finally going down. Unless Mayorga is totally shot, and it wouldn't appear so from his interviews and workouts, I think he will be able to take more bombs from Vargas and dish out his own. I see Vargas possibly getting KOed with the first big shot Mayorga lands. I wish this weren't PPV, I'd actually like to watch it, but I'm not paying $50 for this.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(gods son @ Nov 20 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]366233[/snapback]
Dj Necro will spank his mexicano monkey to this fight!!!

This will be played live free to the Uk peoples.

I have mayorga stopping vargass in mid rounds!



What channel in the UK?
gods son
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Nov 21 2007, 11:51 AM) [snapback]366409[/snapback]
What channel in the UK?


Setanta!!

Tha Docta
QUOTE(singletrack @ Nov 21 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]366406[/snapback]
Yah but he took HUGE bombs from DLH and Tito before finally going down. Unless Mayorga is totally shot, and it wouldn't appear so from his interviews and workouts, I think he will be able to take more bombs from Vargas and dish out his own. I see Vargas possibly getting KOed with the first big shot Mayorga lands. I wish this weren't PPV, I'd actually like to watch it, but I'm not paying $50 for this.



i know that this fight shouldnt be on ppv, but i know i dont have the will power to stay away come fight night.

mayorga has shown zero power above 147lbs. he took a ton of shots from tito, but delahoya walked through him like he wasnt even there. seemed like the first punch delahoya landed put mayorga on queer street. delahoya couldnt even hurt vargas that bad when they fought each other.

delahoya is not a huge puncher. people keep talking about mayorgas chin, but his chin looked like it was made out of plastic against goldie.
Jack 1000
Yes,

I still feel the same way. Someone could go with the first big shot landed early. The earlier that happens, the better for Mayorga, the later it is, the better for Vargas. Would you agree in most of his fights that after about the 6th round, opponents have been able to withstand Mayorga's wild bull-like rushes that Mayorga becomes very beatable? I even think I am being generous to Mayo here. Oscar had Mayo dropped in the first round. Tito had Fernando down twice in the first. Anyone know who the ref is going to be? For California refs, Pat Russell would be my first choice or Marty Denkin. You don't want a quick stoppage ref in this one like Raul Caiz Sr. in the Walker-Wilson fight!

Jack
JD
Caiz Sr. got the gig.
Jack 1000
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 21 2007, 04:14 PM) [snapback]366463[/snapback]
Caiz Sr. got the gig.


NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Well, whoever gets the other guy in the corner and lands about 8 unanswered punches wins. This could be quick. rtfm.gif

Caiz Sr.= The California Athletic Commission's own Richard Steele! laugh.gif (i.e Tyson-Ruddock I)
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Nov 21 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]366399[/snapback]
im surprised as well. did everyone forget that mayorga made delahoya look like a devastating puncher?? i cant remember the last time a fighter reacted like that to delahoyas power. im not so sure that mayorga has more left in the tank than vargas.


I don't think he reacted to DLH's power so much as he did his volume. It wasn't like a single shot put away Mayorga or anything. Chin wise Mayorga took DLH's shots fairly well, he just took too many. Vargas won't match the speed nor the output (landed punches) that DLH did against Mayorga.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Nov 21 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]366421[/snapback]
mayorga has shown zero power above 147lbs. he took a ton of shots from tito, but delahoya walked through him like he wasnt even there. seemed like the first punch delahoya landed put mayorga on queer street. delahoya couldnt even hurt vargas that bad when they fought each other.

delahoya is not a huge puncher. people keep talking about mayorgas chin, but his chin looked like it was made out of plastic against goldie.


I think part of the issue in the DLH fight is that Mayorga was caught cold in the first round and never really recovered. Much the way Vargas was caught against Trinidad. DLH's speed was able to catch Mayorga early - Vargas has a much slimmer chance of doing that. Also as far as punching power goes, Mayorga has more than enough to get Vargas out of there if he lands some clean shots. Let's not forget some of the lesser punches that have hurt Vargas. Mosley is not a banger at or above 147 either and he was able to wax Vargas.

If either one of these guys is to get starched by a shot or two it's going to be Vargas, not Mayorga. Mayorga would be more likely between the two of getting stopped from cumulative damage after a few rounds, but not with just a few punches.

Imperius3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 20 2007, 06:55 PM) [snapback]366321[/snapback]
Shit, how about a blown up lightweight in Mosley?


Mosley ain't no powderpuff though. That Mosley left hook was killer, and sometimes a well placed punch is all it takes. Keep in mind, timing and accuracy is something Mayorga doesn't have.

Also, in all of Vargas' losses he has taken a lot of punishment before being stopped. I don't think Vargas will be starched by a single shot.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 22 2007, 12:47 AM) [snapback]366509[/snapback]
Mosley ain't no powderpuff though. That Mosley left hook was killer, and sometimes a well placed punch is all it takes. Keep in mind, timing and accuracy is something Mayorga doesn't have.

Also, in all of Vargas' losses he has taken a lot of punishment before being stopped. I don't think Vargas will be starched by a single shot.


True, but with Mayorga's unorthodox style and throwing punches from crazy angles he stands a good chance of catching Vargas with something just as good as Mosley did, just in a different way. Also I agree with what you are saying for the most part about Vargas' losses... EXCEPT his most recent to Mosley. Yes against Trinidad and DLH when he was younger/nearer his prime he took a lot of punishment before being stopped. In the first Mosley fight he took a ton of right hands. In the second Mosley fight however, although Vargas took some punishment it was really one shot that put him away.

I just look at the pattern of the 4 times he's been stopped. 12th round, 11th round, 10th round, 6th round - clearly it's getting easier to stop Vargas as time goes on and he is not able to take it the way he could when he was in/nearer his prime. His most recent KO loss tells me all I need to know about him at this stage.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 22 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]366545[/snapback]
True, but with Mayorga's unorthodox style and throwing punches from crazy angles he stands a good chance of catching Vargas with something just as good as Mosley did, just in a different way. Also I agree with what you are saying for the most part about Vargas' losses... EXCEPT his most recent to Mosley. Yes against Trinidad and DLH when he was younger/nearer his prime he took a lot of punishment before being stopped. In the first Mosley fight he took a ton of right hands. In the second Mosley fight however, although Vargas took some punishment it was really one shot that put him away.

I just look at the pattern of the 4 times he's been stopped. 12th round, 11th round, 10th round, 6th round - clearly it's getting easier to stop Vargas as time goes on and he is not able to take it the way he could when he was in/nearer his prime. His most recent KO loss tells me all I need to know about him at this stage.



So in knowing all you know about Vargas at this stage your still picking him to win?
Bill The Butcher
As much I like to watch Mayorga and his crazy antics, I want Vargas to win. He has always been one of my favorite fighters and I will always root for him. I'm hoping he pulls off a knock out against Mayorga. I think it's likely. I think Vargas is a little more suited for fighting at this heavier weight. Mayorga hasn't looked too good higher than welterweight.

GO VARGAS!
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Hey does anybody know whether they are televising three or four fights tomorrow? I wont get home from work til 9:30, but wont order this if i can only see the vargas and cintron fights. I know they are televising the Karmazin, Cintron, and main event, but is there another? Thanks
Kyle
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Bill The Butcher @ Nov 22 2007, 11:10 AM) [snapback]366568[/snapback]
As much I like to watch Mayorga and his crazy antics, I want Vargas to win. He has always been one of my favorite fighters and I will always root for him. I'm hoping he pulls off a knock out against Mayorga. I think it's likely. I think Vargas is a little more suited for fighting at this heavier weight. Mayorga hasn't looked too good higher than welterweight.GO VARGAS!




Which is exactly the reason this fight is at the contracted weight that it is, there was once a time when Fernando didnt need to look for advantages he had enough heart to fight anybody anytime anywhere, now it seems he wants this fight all on his terms to me it seems even Vargas himself knows that chances of Mayorga knocking him out are very real.
The first four rounds are Key if Mayorga can get past those rounds Vargas will be spent and from there it should be all Mayorga, if Vargas comes in flat (Which I assume he will) as he did for his rematch with Mosley, if he doesnt let his hands go as he did in that fight Mayorga knocks him out rather quickly.
Imperius3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 22 2007, 11:20 AM) [snapback]366545[/snapback]
True, but with Mayorga's unorthodox style and throwing punches from crazy angles he stands a good chance of catching Vargas with something just as good as Mosley did, just in a different way. Also I agree with what you are saying for the most part about Vargas' losses... EXCEPT his most recent to Mosley. Yes against Trinidad and DLH when he was younger/nearer his prime he took a lot of punishment before being stopped. In the first Mosley fight he took a ton of right hands. In the second Mosley fight however, although Vargas took some punishment it was really one shot that put him away.


Mosley dominated the rematch. He landed several hooks and right hands on Vargas. Vargas took a lot of cumulative damage in that fight. I remember thinking after the 5th round, "Damn, Vargas can't take much more of this. He's going to be stopped."
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 22 2007, 11:42 AM) [snapback]366582[/snapback]
Mosley dominated the rematch. He landed several hooks and right hands on Vargas. Vargas took a lot of cumulative damage in that fight. I remember thinking after the 5th round, "Damn, Vargas can't take much more of this. He's going to be stopped."



Exactly and not only did he take shot after shot, he wasnt throwing anything at all he just plotted there and took a beating until he got knocked out, I think the same thing happens tomorrow BTW When is the weigh in? please tell me its on the day of the fight.
Imperius3
No, I think Vargas is better prepared this time around, and he's going up against a slow inaccurate fighter in Mayorga.

I was pointing out how Vargas has been taken out due to cumulative damage. I don't think Vargas will be taken out with a single shot.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 22 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]366565[/snapback]
So in knowing all you know about Vargas at this stage your still picking him to win?


Absolutely not.

BrutalBodyShots
The both weighed in at 164.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 22 2007, 04:39 PM) [snapback]366596[/snapback]
I was pointing out how Vargas has been taken out due to cumulative damage. I don't think Vargas will be taken out with a single shot.


Yeah Vargas took some cumulative damage against Mosley in their second fight, but it was still a single shot that took Vargas out ultimately. The three times he was stopped prior he wasn't iced with a single shot the way he was against Mosley II. I'm pointing this out because clearly his resiliency is at an all time low, which is to be expected of course considering how past prime he is and hey, it isn't going to get any better. I just think this simple fact needs to be taken into consideration when making a pick for Vargas-Mayorga.

Imperius3
Yeah, I hear ya.

This is really a difficult fight to pick. I hope Vargas doesn't fight stupidly and get caught with unnecessary shit.
Thegreatequalizer
i think mayorga has a real shot to ko vargas in this fight. it kind of depends on how well he's trained. he didn't seem too well trained for the dlh fight. it seemed kind of like a payday (and maybe not expecting as much aggression from dlh). like vargas, it seems like trinidad took away some of mayorga's chin. if vargas gets caught it's probably going to be over right then. he has no recovery anymore. though he definitely has the ability to outbox mayorga. and if he does that then he could catch mayorga enough to ko him as well. it's a tough fight to pick since there are so many unknown variables. weight being one of the main ones. i think i might go with vargas by decision, but i won't be surprised at any outcome.
Boxingjunkie
Vargas is pretty worn. I dont think that Mayorga is all that shot he is just fighting at weights that he has no business being at. Mayorga needs to stay at 147. That is where the money is. I still think Vargas will TKO Mayorga around the 8th round. I always get pumped to see Mayorga fight because he is so unpreditable. He always comes to fight and makes me want to watch him.

Boxingjunkie
BrutalBodyShots
I think that Vargas' boxing skills are being over rated to some degree. I watched Vargas' fights against Wright, Thompson and Campas all within the last few days and even in his PRIME Vargas wasn't a spectacular boxer. He always had a good basic style but I feel he was always a little too flat-footed. Vargas was always too easy to hit and took plenty of shots in his prime, mostly because he stood in front of his opponent too much and didn't move his feet. The difference between now and then is that now he gets hit a little more but most importantly can't take the shots like he did then. He is even MORE flat footed now which makes him an even easier target.

Everyone talks about Vargas' "boxing skills" being the difference in this fight, but I just don't see that. If Vargas had some bounce in his step and some movement maybe he would have a shot at avoiding Mayorga's wild bombs, but not when he stands right in front of Mayorga flat footed.

Jack 1000
The start time for my TWC Digital Guide says 9 PM (CST) NOT 8 PM, so note that this is a later time than usual. It looks like the Countdown Show is at 8:30 PM CST.

Jack
BrutalBodyShots
Anyone have links to the weigh in pictures of these two clowns?

Imperius3



http://www.fightbeat.com has the weigh-in video on the front page.

If Vargas mounts an effective body attack, he might be able to stop Mayorga.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Nov 23 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]366692[/snapback]



http://www.fightbeat.com has the weigh-in video on the front page.

If Vargas mounts an effective body attack, he might be able to stop Mayorga.



I wouldnt advise Fernando to do alot of work on the inside, I would simply tell the man to use his jab and step around the free swinging club fighter, occasional right hands followed with the clean up hook and he could stop Mayorga late, if Fernado allows his emotions to get the better of him and he doesnt control any anger he might have, Fernando would be falling into Mayorgas trap.
The only way IMO for Vargas to win is to either do it early when both his size and his conditioning will be a factor or relax and box (Basicly Spar Mayorga)
I dont see it though TKO Round 7 Mayorga.
Jack 1000
The round by round thread for the fight is now pinned. Comments should be posted in that thread at this time.

Jack

Administrator
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