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Method
Dude, end of the 12th round....Vargas botls over to the corner to try and pathetically celebrate a career and, what happens? What has happend his ENTIRE CAREER....he fell short. He botched the leap onto the turnbuckle and fell back like he was out on his feet, grasping uncoodinatedly for the ropes and just looking like a complete idiot...

...granted, a 7-figure idiot.

Fitz, you gotta make a GIF of it. I will make it my new one.
Byrd Man
That'll rival MINE!
Method
That one is one of THEE best too...lol...I haven't seen that on in a long time.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Method @ Nov 24 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]366771[/snapback]
Dude, end of the 12th round....Vargas botls over to the corner to try and pathetically celebrate a career and, what happens? What has happend his ENTIRE CAREER....he fell short. He botched the leap onto the turnbuckle and fell back like he was out on his feet, grasping uncoodinatedly for the ropes and just looking like a complete idiot...


I laughed my ass off when I saw that shit. If you're exhausted at the end of a fight don't put yourself in a position to make a fool of yourself.

Spyder
It was reminiscent of the scene from "Great White Hype" where Damon Wayans does the same thing...fucking classic!!!

laugh.gif
Snoop
I wish he woulda fell back on his ass. That would have been CLASSIC!
Method
Forall intents and purposes, he DID fall back on his ass.


I said it from jump street. Fernando Vargas is a has been that never was. On his best night a "B" caliber fighter. Lost EVERY major fight he ever was in. I have no problem with someone being a macho prick....but you better back up your shit. He got KTFO by DLH, Trinidad, Mosley...and now got checked out by Mayorga.

I honestly would not be surprised to see him as a suicide.

His whole persona is a farce...

...and I was rooting for him last night too.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Method @ Nov 24 2007, 07:20 PM) [snapback]366885[/snapback]
Forall intents and purposes, he DID fall back on his ass.
I said it from jump street. Fernando Vargas is a has been that never was. On his best night a "B" caliber fighter. Lost EVERY major fight he ever was in. I have no problem with someone being a macho prick....but you better back up your shit. He got KTFO by DLH, Trinidad, Mosley...and now got checked out by Mayorga.

I honestly would not be surprised to see him as a suicide.

His whole persona is a farce...

...and I was rooting for him last night too.

In all fairness to Vargas, I think Vargas was ruined by Trinidad. He was an undefeated fighter who destroyed Campas for the title. Then destroyed Marquez who was 30-1 at the time. Then he beat Winky in a good hard fight, and right after that he gave the dangerous Ike Quartey a boxing lesson. He then KO'd the limited Ross Thompson before getting beat by Trinidad. So I think Vargas beat some good fighters before Trinidad ruined him, and even in the Trinidad fight he made a good account of himself in losing. Got to admit Winky and Quartey were "A" caliber fighters. Also, what makes you think of him as a suicide?
Method
Na. I don't think he was ruined by Trinidad. Winly Wright beat Trinidad all day long. Vargas was jus always a b- player is all.
Boxingjunkie
That was funnier than hell. Not sure what the hell he was thinking on that first jump. He really didnt even try to jump on the ropes he just kinda jumped up and hit the corner or something. I dont know what he was thinking LOL.

Boxingjunkie
Kijis Konar
QUOTE(Method @ Nov 24 2007, 11:12 PM) [snapback]366895[/snapback]
Na. I don't think he was ruined by Trinidad. Winly Wright beat Trinidad all day long. Vargas was jus always a b- player is all.



Vargas before Tito > Vargas after Tito. Vargas had never been badly stunned by relatively soft punches before facing Tito. After 12 grueling rounds and 5 KDs, he got either dropped or stunned by almost all his opponents, apart of gradually losing the skills that he once had.

By the way, I don't see what Winky has to do with the fact that Trinidad ruined Vargas.
STEVENSKI
Where is my boy Fitz? Anyone know? I hope he is on holidays or some shit.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Kijis Konar @ Nov 25 2007, 01:25 AM) [snapback]366903[/snapback]
Vargas before Tito > Vargas after Tito. Vargas had never been badly stunned by relatively soft punches before facing Tito. After 12 grueling rounds and 5 KDs, he got either dropped or stunned by almost all his opponents, apart of gradually losing the skills that he once had.

By the way, I don't see what Winky has to do with the fact that Trinidad ruined Vargas.


Agreed 100%. I think you and I are the only two people on this board that see this however.
Warlord
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 25 2007, 02:28 AM) [snapback]366907[/snapback]
Agreed 100%. I think you and I are the only two people on this board that see this however.

Nope, I'm co-signing on this. Trinidad WRECKED Vargas, just like he wrecked David Reid, Yori Boy Campas, and a host of others. I'm a Vargas fan and I don't like Trinidad at all, so I have no bias here when I say that Trinidad ruined Vargas beyond repair. Pre-Trinidad Vargas had all the tools to be an elite fighter, IMO. The mangled fighter that emerged from that fight with Trinidad is the ruination you saw on display against Mayorga last night.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 25 2007, 02:28 AM) [snapback]366907[/snapback]
Agreed 100%. I think you and I are the only two people on this board that see this however.

Did you not read my post before his???
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Nov 25 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]366937[/snapback]
Did you not read my post before his???


I did, except you just said "Trinidad ruined Vargas" but my view is exactly like Konar's view. The fact that Vargas simply doesn't react to punches the same since the Trinidad beating. There are several guys on here, Bazooka is one of them that thinks it has more to do with Vargas' eating habits than the Trinidad beating, which I do not agree with.

BrutalBodyShots
Also lights out, I don't really agree with the rest of your post about Vargas' wins pre-Trindad. Yes they were solid wins and he won a title at a very young age but I think they were also wins that were the product of smart match making by Vargas' people.

First of all Vargas didn't "destroy" Campas for the title; Trinidad did, and that was 4 years prior. Campas was still holding his own during the fight and was actually having a good round prior to the stoppage. Trinidad's win over Campas is much more impressive than Vargas' win over Campas.

Marquez was solid, but he was just knocked out a few fights earlier by Campas.

Wright? It was a close fight that could have gone either way, and most that have an opinion other than a draw tend to think Winky eeked it out.

Quartey again was a good win, but he was just coming off of the DLH loss which was very taxing. Quartey then vanished from the sport for 5 years.

Anyway, my point is that while Vargas' 4 key career wins above were against solid competition, all 4 come with a footnote that I feel can't be overlooked.

Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 25 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]366944[/snapback]
I did, except you just said "Trinidad ruined Vargas" but my view is exactly like Konar's view. The fact that Vargas simply doesn't react to punches the same since the Trinidad beating. There are several guys on here, Bazooka is one of them that thinks it has more to do with Vargas' eating habits than the Trinidad beating, which I do not agree with.

Okay, I agree with you guys too.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 25 2007, 08:21 AM) [snapback]366944[/snapback]
I did, except you just said "Trinidad ruined Vargas" but my view is exactly like Konar's view. The fact that Vargas simply doesn't react to punches the same since the Trinidad beating. There are several guys on here, Bazooka is one of them that thinks it has more to do with Vargas' eating habits than the Trinidad beating, which I do not agree with.



Yes I do think its his eating habits that effect Fernando but I also agree that he wasnt more than a B Player as well Ike Quartey was and is the biggest solid win on the resume of Vargas and that was against an Ike who had been long inactive and moving up in weight, other than that who has Vargas clearly beat?
I think its just a mix of things the kid is a good B level fighter no doubt but I think he was rushed to the big time too early in his career that mixed with his great eating habits and you have the out come of what you have right now.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Warlord @ Nov 25 2007, 05:16 AM) [snapback]366926[/snapback]
The mangled fighter that emerged from that fight with Trinidad is the ruination you saw on display against Mayorga last night.

LMAO! Warlord you're killing me today. I'm a writer and I just wanted to give you props for that sentence. That is some descriptive shit right there.

By the way, I agree with you guys as well. Trinidad RUINED Vargas. Whether or not Vargas was on pace to be an elite fighter or just very good, he was never even close to being the same guy, never able to absorb shots the same way. The weight didn't help either, but you could see it during the later rounds of that very fight. Vargas became shot right in front of our very eyes.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Nov 25 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]367025[/snapback]
LMAO! Warlord you're killing me today. I'm a writer and I just wanted to give you props for that sentence. That is some descriptive shit right there.

By the way, I agree with you guys as well. Trinidad RUINED Vargas. Whether or not Vargas was on pace to be an elite fighter or just very good, he was never even close to being the same guy, never able to absorb shots the same way. The weight didn't help either, but you could see it during the later rounds of that very fight. Vargas became shot right in front of our very eyes.


Though I think the beating Tito put on Vargas played some what of a role in his down fall I also beleive that his eating habits also effected him in big fights as well, you can blow up to 200 plus pounds in between fights and take off huge ammounts of weight in a short time with out it having some sort of effect on you.
I do not think it was the Trinidad fight alone that hurt Vargas I beleive it was mainly his eating habits, when you have to make weight, when you have to take off a lot the way Vargas has had to going into big fights, it does effect how you can take a shot, a perfect example of this is Miguel Cotto who stayed at 140 a tad bit too long and looked very vunerable against Corley and Torres but since he has moved up in weight he has been able to with stand shots from bigger bangers and this is a guy who doesnt balloon up the way Vargas does.
again it wasnt just Tito, and that doesnt Mean that the punishment Tito handed Vargas plays no factor becuase it does, but his eating habits also factor in as well this is something we just cant simply write off or ignore how a fighter takes care of himself is a big factor on how he will perform in big fights.
Method
Agreed, Bazooka. I don't think Trinidad really ruined Vargas either. I mean, to say, you never saw Vargas get beat up like that before Trinidad - well fuck, the guy only had 19 fights up to that point....how many guys get beat up like that when they're being brought along. I DEFINITELY think the abuse Vargas put on his body was a huge factor. HUGE. The eaiting habits and physical problems were HUGE...and they affect EVERYTHING else.

As for David Reid, I don't think Trinidad ruined him either. Reid had 14 fights, and he was lookingj BAD BEFRIRE Trinidad, getting floored in his fight before Tito.

Yory Boy? I mean, that guy...at that point...whatever.

All good.

Just get me the avatar.
Warlord
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Nov 25 2007, 07:32 PM) [snapback]367025[/snapback]
LMAO! Warlord you're killing me today. I'm a writer and I just wanted to give you props for that sentence. That is some descriptive shit right there.

By the way, I agree with you guys as well. Trinidad RUINED Vargas. Whether or not Vargas was on pace to be an elite fighter or just very good, he was never even close to being the same guy, never able to absorb shots the same way. The weight didn't help either, but you could see it during the later rounds of that very fight. Vargas became shot right in front of our very eyes.

Appreciate the love brother, lol. I'm a writer too, so it's all good.

As for you guys saying that Vargas's eating habits were the cause of his downfall, I agree with that aspect as well. Ballooning up in weight and coming down can kill a fighter's body, even if he's just taking off fat instead of muscle. Roy Jones, Antonio Tarver, and Fernando Vargas are just recent examples of guys who lost something because of the way they cut weight. You can look back on Roberto Duran's career and see where his ballooning up in weight between fights came back to haunt him, most especially in his fued with Sugay Ray Leonard.

On the flip side, as others have pointed out, you also have guys like Bernard Hopkins and Miguel Cotto who actually flourish at higher weights because of the punishment they had to sustain to make weight at lower weight classes.

In the end though, I don't think we can dismiss the abuse that Trinidad put on Vargas in their fight together. Vargas got wrecked, plain and simple. He took the kind of beating that there is no coming back from. The bad back and bad eating habits only served to hasten a demise that had already been foretold at the hands of Felix Trinidad. (And his illegally wrapped hands.)
JD
Tito was David Reid's cashout fight.

His handlers knew he had a limited shelf life because of his existing eye problem, and the goal was to get a big money fight for him as soon as possible - hence Trinidad after only 14 pro fights.

After that fight he fought a few more times, but nothing of note really. Going into the Trinidad fight, they knew full well that he did not have a long, illustrious career ahead of him.
PR316
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Nov 26 2007, 01:08 AM) [snapback]367028[/snapback]
Though I think the beating Tito put on Vargas played some what of a role in his down fall I also beleive that his eating habits also effected him in big fights as well, you can blow up to 200 plus pounds in between fights and take off huge ammounts of weight in a short time with out it having some sort of effect on you.
I do not think it was the Trinidad fight alone that hurt Vargas I beleive it was mainly his eating habits, when you have to make weight, when you have to take off a lot the way Vargas has had to going into big fights, it does effect how you can take a shot, a perfect example of this is Miguel Cotto who stayed at 140 a tad bit too long and looked very vunerable against Corley and Torres but since he has moved up in weight he has been able to with stand shots from bigger bangers and this is a guy who doesnt balloon up the way Vargas does.
again it wasnt just Tito, and that doesnt Mean that the punishment Tito handed Vargas plays no factor becuase it does, but his eating habits also factor in as well this is something we just cant simply write off or ignore how a fighter takes care of himself is a big factor on how he will perform in big fights.


Yeah I remember we spoke on this before. Definitely coming into camp needing to burn off 40 pounds is not exactly discipline. I'll never forget for example when Vargas showed up on the Barrera/Morales 2 fight to discuss the De La Hoya fight and you could see he looked like a pig. I thought to myself, silly boy. Just seems to me that his heart wasn't always into boxing as much as it should have been.

The 2nd Mosley fight is also worth discussion, taking 2 weeks off of training, blowing up in weight and then sweating it all off at the last minute before passing out after the weigh in.


Things like that do affect a fighter's ability to take a punch. Also, Vargas is well known to like his alcohol too, and anyone who drinks knows just how much booze can pack on the pounds.


Vargas could have been a better fighter but his lack of discipline prevented him from being the best he could be.
Kijis Konar
Warlord, Tito's handwraps had nothing to do with Vargas's demise.
BrutalBodyShots
Not this debate again. LOL. Trinidad vs Vargas' eating habits as being the cause of his demise.

Clearly both played a role, that we can agree on.

However, something that we can ALL see with our own two eyes is that Vargas couldn't take punches the same way post-Trinidad as pre-Trinidad. As someone above already pointed out, you could see the change in the Trinidad fight itself. Therefore we KNOW that Trinidad played a role in Vargas' demise, as Vargas never took punches as well after that fight.

The eating habits issue is another ball of wax. It's nearly impossible to quantify exactly how much Vargas abused himself and when it started, reached its peak, etc. Yeah we know it was a problem and played a roll, but exactly HOW MUCH of a role is complete speculation.

Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 25 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]366945[/snapback]
Quartey again was a good win, but he was just coming off of the DLH loss which was very taxing. Quartey then vanished from the sport for 5 years.

Quartey was coming off something like a 13 month layoff since the ODLH fight, and when he fought ODLH he was coming off of a 8-9 month layoff. Quartey had plenty of ring rust to shake off for the Vargas fight. Had it not been for that then Ike would have beaten Fernando, IMHO...
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