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Full Version: Floyd & Ricky's sparring partners (sparring in general)
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MarzB
With big fights I like to usually find out who the "sparring" partners are for combatants. First a bit of soapboxing.

I've been off and on boxing for 20+ years and I also train fighters. I find that sparring can be GREAT and beneficial at the same time it could be very OVERRATED and a detriment at times. This all depends on how it's done. To give an example, I recall hearing Nazim Richardson discuss how they prepared for the Tarver fight. I recall him mentioning one of the sparring partners being Daniel Judah. He(Bro Naz) mentioned how they identified how Tarver threw an excessive number of lefts in the fights they watched so they had Daniel duplicate that. They then identified a couple more tendencies of Tarver and instructed the other partners to mimic it.

Well you all know preparation is the key in everything and we saw the results. Thats a good example of how sparring should be used. Just to throw another sport in there, I know that most college and pro sport teams, the 3rd string team is often the "SCOUT TEAM" of sorts and they often try to emulate the plays the opposing teams run. Just throwing that out there..

Now an "overrated" example is one of the worse sparring sessions I've ever witnessed was during Rahman's preparation for Lennox Lewis II. Now granted Rahman isn't the most disciplined boxer around (despite having a good jab) but this session was not only sloppy but didn't mirror(not that it always has to totally) Lennox in any light. Most of all, Rahman was literally kicking this dudes ass. I can't remember his name but it was later revealed on the program (and I think this was on ESPN) that that was Rahman's brother who I'm pretty certain wasn't a professional boxer. Again, we SAW the results..

I say all that to say that much can and a lot can't be taken from a sparring session. maybe the guy knocked down got knockdown while he was working on a new technique. Or was owned because he was coming off having not fought in a while (see Floyd vs. Paulie Spadafora).


Soapboxin over now, we have and if anyone knows any others, feel free to post them.

Floyd - Lovemore N'dou & Carlos Baldomir

Ricky- Rock Allen, Saeed Harak and Karl Dargan

What are your thoughts on these guys?? Since I've never heard of Harak (they say he's fast) and Dargan is the boxer (he has a pro fight up coming) lets discuss the guys that we know..

I'm going to say it's even and if I were to give the nod, it would be to Floyd ONLY based on the fact that the guys he's working with have much more experience. Although I personally question the Baldomir selection (old, too slow, doesn't throw a lot of combinations, bad footwork, etc). Rock is a very good selection for Ricky
but I'm curious what he's doing in those sessions.

Judging from the LITTLE we see on 24/7, I'm going to speculate. IMO they should have brought a guy with good to great defense to simulate Floyd. I think on the other hand Floyd has fought and sparred so many people, that he can pretty much adapt to most styles including Hatton. Although I would like to see some portions of the session to make a full assessment.

Any thoughts?
Method
Solid post. Agree with Sparring and also agree with the questionability of Baldo. I think Ricky is more dimentional than Baldo, and that all Baldo will do is plod forward leading with his head. Not as exp.losive or rugged. If anything, his head may serve as the rock on which to bust your your hand on during training.

All kidding aside...I am of the opinion that fighters who really know their shit approach sparring in a strategic sense, usually with a specific purpose in mind that transcends just beating down whoever is standing across the ring from them.
Hodge
Good post. I was thinking how Oscar's sparring partners with the exception of Shane were not capable of preparing him for Floyd at all. Even then, I never thought of Shane as a defensive wizard. If I was Freddie Roach, I would have brought in Stevie Forbes or somebody along those lines to help him out.
dbdbdb
Off-Topic:

What is the normal training period?? Is it 12 weeks??
I was discussing this with a friend and he's saying 16 weeks total before a fight.

On-Topic

IMO, I think Baldomir & N'dou will give floyd what he was looking for in a spar. No one in the states can truely emulate Hatton with all the wrestling, holding & hitting. Floyd has a history of selecting certain sparring partners to work on certain elements he will use during his upcoming fight.
Case in point: I forget the training partner floyd used for the Judah fight, but the focus throughout was "BODYWORK" and if you look at the PBF vs Judah fight, bodywork was floyd's main technique against judah. So, I think of the possible partners available for floyd, he had to have a very good reason for going with the above mentions spar partners.

Hatton fights the same way in every fight, so for him to bring in this guy or that guy to address a certain technique, would be useless. Because come fight time all that is going out the window and its back to wrestling, holding and hitting. Sure he is dynamic and consistant, but I can't imagine Hatton having a gameplan for a fight and actually follow through with it. In the heat of battle, he's going to resort to what he's always done and that isn't going to change. So, in his sparring sessions, all he needs is someone willing to be beat on constantly.
ROLL DEEP
I think people are playing on Hattons hitting and holding a little too much.

Sure, he does fight rough and does hold...but people are going on and on and on and on about it....

It DOES happen, but its becoming maybe a little too blown up.



Anyways, yeah, good thread. Sparring is soooo important. It can help the boxer put into practice what he's been working on and help with their confidence too....not that Floyd needs that laugh.gif
flazi
excellent post. I think with n'dou floyd has in sparring what he needs. N'dou has a style similar to hatton's and between him and baldomir he has all the pressure sparring he needs.
WolfishPromistah
"So, I think of the possible partners available for floyd, he had to have a very good reason for going with the above mentions spar partners."

Prime reason alone -- Hatton WILL have to , as both Ndou and Baldomir seem quite adept at, apply harsh pressure. That is the ONLY way he's going to beat Floyd anyway. So naturally that's what Floyd's mainly training for. After taking so many shots in succession, do you NOT THINK Ricky will just go for and try and press? There's no way around it, which is why Floyd needs bigger guys who'll continue to keep progressing 'cause there's no question he's got Ricky's game covered clearly from the outside.
MarzB
Thansk for the props fellas..

Is it 12 weeks??

This depends on whats considered their training session. Lets say with sparring and boxing drills that its usually 6 to 8 weeks with 8 weeks being the maximum. Now as far as conditioning before hand, it could be a year. I heard Vargas was at 264 (WTF???) laugh.gif laugh.gif in January but thats apparently when he started his conditioning.

I think anything over 8 weeks with boxing drills and such is risk to over-training.

X3_Bazooka_X3
I dont think that Floyds sparring Partners are good picks for this fight, Ndou and Baldimor are not as dynamic as Ricky is, but if he is working on specifics it might just work out for him, However looks to me like Ricky has got him the younger fresher and faster sparring partners to work with him so in terms of who is better prepaired that is still up in the air.
They say Floyd trains while other fighters sleep, what Floyd forgot is he is basicly training at the same time Ricky does due to the time difference over in the UK, so will someone please tell Floyd to shut up with that already.
I cant wait for this fight, Hatton is going to be all over Floyd like White on Rice
Chi-Town
Few points from my perspective.

1. Don't believe the hype!!!! (No pun intended) Far too often people buy into the media's assesment of fighters which are at times flawed. I believe that Floyd is doing this with Hatton as evidenced by his hiring of Carlos Baldomir. Buying into the notion that Floyd is just a charge forward, JC Chavez type of fighter when I don't really think he's that at all. He just simply manages distance well, meaning he fights from all the way inside or all the way outside. He'll box from his most comfortable distance, but as soon as the opponent starts to close the distance Ricky slides all the way in and smothers the punches or just grabs and that gives the impression that he just likes to try to charge through people. Also, his short-distance lateral movement, in other words the way that he slides around to either side of his opponent after getting off is very difficult to deal with...the obvious and most recent example is the Castillo body punch.

2. I can remember reading and hearing from at least 5 of Floyds sparring partners over the years that he does indeed train harder than any fighter they had ever seen before and that observing his camps from up close totally changed their whole perspective on training. I read a couple posts on here with people saying that all fighters train hard and that it was nothing special so I just had to take a minute to disagree with that assesment.

3. If you think about it, Floyd didn't really start doing this hit and run BS until he started fighting bigger guys. Seeing as how Hatton is much smaller than him I really think that there's a substantial chance that Floyd will keep the running to a minimum...at least early on.

4. For months I've been saying that this fight will be a one-sided beating with Ricky on the recieveing end. But lately I'm starting to think that he has at least some chance, and its not because HBO has hyped me up with 24/7, but rather the fact that I'm starting to see some wear on Floyd. I've heard that really since the DeLaHoya press tour, he's been going non stop with training, dancing and business ventures and that he's been complaining a lot about being tired. Not only that, but just looking at his face, he looks very tired and is starting to show the effects of 25 years of organized fighting.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Chi-Town @ Nov 28 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]367422[/snapback]
Few points from my perspective.

1. Don't believe the hype!!!! (No pun intended) Far too often people buy into the media's assesment of fighters which are at times flawed. I believe that Floyd is doing this with Hatton as evidenced by his hiring of Carlos Baldomir. Buying into the notion that Floyd is just a charge forward, JC Chavez type of fighter when I don't really think he's that at all. He just simply manages distance well, meaning he fights from all the way inside or all the way outside. He'll box from his most comfortable distance, but as soon as the opponent starts to close the distance Ricky slides all the way in and smothers the punches or just grabs and that gives the impression that he just likes to try to charge through people. Also, his short-distance lateral movement, in other words the way that he slides around to either side of his opponent after getting off is very difficult to deal with...the obvious and most recent example is the Castillo body punch.


Exactly my point and I can tell you its always harder to fight a shorter person than someone your own size especially when they have movement like that if Hatton bends his knees and stays low Floyd will have a hard time finding him.
QUOTE(Chi-Town @ Nov 28 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]367422[/snapback]
2. I can remember reading and hearing from at least 5 of Floyds sparring partners over the years that he does indeed train harder than any fighter they had ever seen before and that observing his camps from up close totally changed their whole perspective on training. I read a couple posts on here with people saying that all fighters train hard and that it was nothing special so I just had to take a minute to disagree with that assesment.


That was probably my post, I will admit I dont see anything special in that he trains harder than the next man simply because in all that "HARD" Work it didnt show in his fight with and older De La Hoya, who is obviously not in his prime and for someone like Floyd to put in that Hard work as they say it didnt do much for him in that fight when you consider he barley won it by a single point.

What gets me is how some of you discredit the Body shot landed to Castillo by Hatton, some go as far as to say that Castillo just quit, look at this clip and tell me this wasnt a legit knock out, the damn shot to the ribs almost sounded like he hit him with a bat. http://youtube.com/watch?v=6UeYWanxhfs&feature=related
imperial
Unless Ricky start pumping out his jab I don't see how he can catch Floyd enough to make it a fight ..Ig Floyd does end up trading with him than he's teh fool !
STEVENSKI
Floyd like to spar against women I hear. He beats them like a real man just like his daddy & uncle.
The Original MrFactor
I think as you step up in compettition, it becomes harder to find sparring partners to emulate the guy you're fighting. If a guy could successfully emulate a Mayweather or Hatton, then they'd be very formiddable themslves. So why would that person be a sparring partner. You could be lucky enough to have Sugar Shane Mosley as your friend, al DLH, and get the best sparring partner in the world at the time.

I think Baldomir is a horrible emulator for Hatton. Hatton is physical, fast and hits hard. Baldomir is just physical. I'm really thinking this fight is going to be alot closer than many on here think. I dont see a Mayweather/Gatti here. Where Gatti was standing there and not punching and imposing. Hatton will throw punches. Its more than obvious that Mayweather is not gonna stand and trade. He will potshot all day. The trouble is Hatton is gonna land a few nice powershots. It will be interesting to see how Mayweather deals with a very physical, pressure body puncher...
AussieLad
Dbdb, hatton does fight the same fight most fights. Pressue. But pressure can be applied in many different ways, not just rushing forward throwing heaps of punches. It will be about what sort of combinations he is throwing in relation to what floyd is doing at the time.

Case in point, when oscar was pressuring floyd on the ropes, sure he was winging in alot of leather, but it was as if he wasnt trying to read floyd at all and tailor his combinations. Which is why he was so ineffective. It all depends on what ricky throws when he is in close

Alot of people think that its a pressure style that will unsettle floyd. Personally i think it is the opposite. What you need is a tall rangy counterpuncher with good reflexes and timing. Someone who isnt overwhelmed by the occasion that he feels he needs to go in there and blow his wad in the first 5 rounds. A "tarver" to floyds "roy jones-ness"
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(AussieLad @ Nov 29 2007, 06:14 AM) [snapback]367478[/snapback]
Alot of people think that its a pressure style that will unsettle floyd. Personally i think it is the opposite. What you need is a tall rangy counterpuncher with good reflexes and timing. Someone who isnt overwhelmed by the occasion that he feels he needs to go in there and blow his wad in the first 5 rounds. A "tarver" to floyds "roy jones-ness"



In come Paul Williams... I totally agree with what you said...
Chi-Town
I too agree with the above posts....Another instance of people mindlessly following the opinions of the media. Pressure is not the answer to beating floyd in my opinion. Everyone has been doing it for years to no avail and at this point he's become so comfortable moving backwards and fighting off the ropes that getting him there isn't really effective in my opinion. If Oscar would have boxed him from the outside for 12 rounds I think he would have won a decision... Oscar has a longer jab thats very quick and very stiff and if he hadn't been looking to get him on the ropes all night Floyd wouldn't have been able to get close enough to win, especially because Oscar was able to neutralize Floyd's leaping left hook.
torvix2000
I think you also need straighter punches, too. It's virtually impossible to hit Mayweather with hooks when he's in the ropes. His opponents are instinctively firing hooks while Mayweather simply positions his hands to defend his sides or leans his head to avoid head shots.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Nov 29 2007, 11:36 PM) [snapback]367615[/snapback]
I think you also need straighter punches, too. It's virtually impossible to hit Mayweather with hooks when he's in the ropes. His opponents are instinctively firing hooks while Mayweather simply positions his hands to defend his sides or leans his head to avoid head shots.


I was thinking that a world class Jeff Fenech style fighter would put a bad beating on PBF. Hard fast straight punches thrown in bunches with unlimited stamina would cause bad bad problems for Floyd.
Chi-Town
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Nov 29 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]367615[/snapback]
I think you also need straighter punches, too. It's virtually impossible to hit Mayweather with hooks when he's in the ropes. His opponents are instinctively firing hooks while Mayweather simply positions his hands to defend his sides or leans his head to avoid head shots.



Very, very true....I also believe that more fighters should take advantage of his tendencies. He responds to his opponents body movements and is able to judge pretty accurately what his oppoonent is going to throw before he throws it. I think more guys should feint him and then punch where he's "going to be"...kinda like a quarterback leading a reciever with a pass for lack of a better analogy.
X3_Bazooka_X3
Straight punches are a big key, However if you fight in a semi hopkins style the way Ricky does he will create openings and who knows maybe that win over Oscar got to Floyds head he might think he can stand in there with ricky and trade a bit, if he does its going to be a deadly mistake.
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