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niggsy
I watched Ricky Hatton fight tonight and although he was outclassed by a very good boxer, the referee, Joe Cortez, was pathetic, he never gave the boxers chance to fight on the inside, he penalised hatton for a punch that never was and he constantly allowed mayweather to turn, bend over and use his elbows. I'm looking forward to a rematch in the UK with, hopefully, a neutral referee. Hatton did very well by stepping up a weight to fight mayweather and Im sure I speak for the whole UK by saying we're very proud of his achievements. Joe Cortez should now retire and take a very long hard look at himself!
BigG
Hatton belongs at 140. He can beat everyone there...except for Paulie.
Method
Joe Cortez was SO SO SO over his head tonight.
niggsy
I don't know how you can say that hatton lost a point deservedly, as mayweather bent over and the punch never even connected, so by making that decision forced hatton out of his gameplan. Mayweather said he would love to fight in the UK and a rematch must be on the cards once Ricky gets more experience at this weight. I'm sure the WBC could have picked a referee with a spine as they would if the fight was in the UK, but as it was in Vegas they chose a big name who's had his day!!
Lil-lightsout
Joe did the best he could do in there, he had ALOT to deal with. I thought he was very unbiased in there, there was alot of fouling on both fighters. Hey Niggsy, by chance have you ever watched any of the fights in Manchester when Ricky fought? I am curious on your take of the refs quality of officiating in all his fights. You will truly see pathetic BIASED refs.
BrutalBodyShots
I thought Cortez did a fine job tonight. He let them do work on the inside... I don't know what you're talking about when you say he didn't. He would give them a solid 5 seconds after locking up their arms and doing nothing before he'd break it. It wasn't like one of those situations where 2 fighters get close and there's an immediate break.

Oh, and the point deduction was 100% justified. Who cares if the punch didn't land perfectly clean? It was a partially landed illegal blow. What if a fighter tries to kick his opponent in the face, but it only barely touches or even misses? Is there to be no deduction because the foul didn't land when it was clearly intended to? Get real.

niggsy
Of course I have, I've followed Hattons career from the start. I just think Cortez could have waited a bit longer before wading in to break and as for the deduction, this was the cause of the stoppage. Even though Hatton was beaten we're still very proud of him and he will always be a great fighter, and I'm sure he'll be back.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 9 2007, 02:27 AM) [snapback]369382[/snapback]
Oh, and the point deduction was 100% justified. Who cares if the punch didn't land perfectly clean? It was a partially landed illegal blow. What if a fighter tries to kick his opponent in the face, but it only barely touches or even misses? Is there to be no deduction because the foul didn't land when it was clearly intended to? Get real.

Excellent point.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 9 2007, 02:27 AM) [snapback]369382[/snapback]
I thought Cortez did a fine job tonight. He let them do work on the inside... I don't know what you're talking about when you say he didn't. He would give them a solid 5 seconds after locking up their arms and doing nothing before he'd break it. It wasn't like one of those situations where 2 fighters get close and there's an immediate break.

Oh, and the point deduction was 100% justified. Who cares if the punch didn't land perfectly clean? It was a partially landed illegal blow. What if a fighter tries to kick his opponent in the face, but it only barely touches or even misses? Is there to be no deduction because the foul didn't land when it was clearly intended to? Get real.


This is what I remember happened. I will check again though.

Floyd blatantly turned his back and ducked away, Hatton went to punch but stopped.


IMO, Floyd should have a point deducted. He turned his back and ducked off.


I thought Joe Cortez was too quick to jump in and break the fitght up. He let Floyd get away with a lot and was pretty quick to jump on Hatton.
Snoop
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Dec 9 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]369426[/snapback]
This is what I remember happened. I will check again though.

Floyd blatantly turned his back and ducked away, Hatton went to punch but stopped.
IMO, Floyd should have a point deducted. He turned his back and ducked off.
I thought Joe Cortez was too quick to jump in and break the fitght up. He let Floyd get away with a lot and was pretty quick to jump on Hatton.

When I watched the replay, it was clear that Hatton pushed Floyd down towards the ropes and took a swing at the back of his head but missed. I agree with Brutal. True the punch didn't land but the intention was definitely there.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Dec 9 2007, 06:05 AM) [snapback]369428[/snapback]
When I watched the replay, it was clear that Hatton pushed Floyd down towards the ropes and took a swing at the back of his head but missed. I agree with Brutal. True the punch didn't land but the intention was definitely there.


Didn't remember it as being a push. I remember Floyd ducking under and away from a punch, then Ricky turned to punch him as Floyd moved away with his back facing Hatton.

Like I said though, I'll watch it again.
Snoop
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Dec 9 2007, 11:35 AM) [snapback]369433[/snapback]
Didn't remember it as being a push. I remember Floyd ducking under and away from a punch, then Ricky turned to punch him as Floyd moved away with his back facing Hatton.

Like I said though, I'll watch it again.

I'll do the same.
Don Flamenco
QUOTE(niggsy @ Dec 9 2007, 02:17 AM) [snapback]369371[/snapback]
I don't know how you can say that hatton lost a point deservedly, as mayweather bent over and the punch never even connected, so by making that decision forced hatton out of his gameplan. Mayweather said he would love to fight in the UK and a rematch must be on the cards once Ricky gets more experience at this weight. I'm sure the WBC could have picked a referee with a spine as they would if the fight was in the UK, but as it was in Vegas they chose a big name who's had his day!!



Just cause something doesn't connect doesn't mean you shouldn't take the point away. If the guy threw a full blown karate kick and missed, would you have liked the ref to say, "I will take a point away if you connect the next time"? Even before the replay the punch looked to occur after floyd was obviously through the ropes. You can't just say you can't take a point cause the punch didn't connect - the intent was there.

salvador
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 9 2007, 03:27 AM) [snapback]369382[/snapback]
I thought Cortez did a fine job tonight.

Oh, and the point deduction was 100% justified.


Not that the fact that you had big money riding on Floyd has anything to do with your opinion. laugh.gif
WolfishPromistah
"Didn't remember it as being a push."

Well, I can tell you now. I watched the fight twice last night (the real one and the recorded version) and, from what I saw, there was a push -- with some contact on the back of Floyd's head -- that Ricky was rightfully called on. He fought hard though, letting people see him under that Castillo-like style that was supposed to finally defeat Floyd, from a stronger guy in Hatton. And of course Floyd did his business, to again display his adaptability.
JD
I did not think Cortez did all that great of a job.

I thought that if you are going to deduct points, you should be even handed...Hatton's punch could have warranted a point deduction, but so could the elbows Floyd used on the inside.

Method
QUOTE
What if a fighter tries to kick his opponent in the face, but it only barely touches or even misses? Is there to be no deduction because the foul didn't land when it was clearly intended to? Get real.


Dumbest fucking analogy I've read in a while. Something I would have expected from Hawkins.
Mean Mister Mustard
I wan't too happy with Cortez in the first rounds, he would stop the clinches right away. Interesting reversal where it was Mayweather who was insitigating the clinches.

By the way, to me, Cortez will always be known for being played by Bernard Hopkins.
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Dec 9 2007, 06:50 AM) [snapback]369426[/snapback]
This is what I remember happened. I will check again though.

Floyd blatantly turned his back and ducked away, Hatton went to punch but stopped.


Hatton did not stop this punch. He threw it straight to the back of the head. The only reason it didnt land flush was because he hit the ropes instead of Floyds head. People can argue all day long whether Floyd turned his back or whether he was pushed. Both fighters were fighting rough. I thought Ricky had him on the ropes several times but never did anything. Ricky's only chance was get Mayweather on the ropes and rough him up and I didnt think he took advantage of his opportunities. None of this matters since it never went to the scorecards.
FidelCastro
This thread is hilarious! Now, one of the greatest ref's of this era, Joe Cortez, is a joke? Why? Because he didn't allow Ricky "I need rough house tactics to win" Hatton to pull the same crap he pulls in the U.K.

Further laughing my ass off about those U.K fans having the audacity to come into American forum and boo while the national anthem was being sang by Tyrese Gibson. Karma got them good for that BS.

I must admit the KO was fking hilarious as well a perfectly placed left hook and Hatton bangs his head against the buckle and falls.....LMAO! The British are falling!!! laugh.gif
Southeastpaw
Joe did an outstanding job considering what he had in front of him. There were a mess load of fouls. So if you had to choose a foul to deduct, it would have HAD to have been the punch in the back of the head. That was undeniably the most flagrant foul of the fight. Both were doin nasty stuff on the inside. Joe did the right thing. Who would have done better? Reffing any Hatton fight has got to be a task.
Jack 1000
Well,

Let's just say that I don't think Joe Cortez and Mickey Vann are going to be exchanging Christmas gifts this year!

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Jack


pastor method
i've never thought cortez was much of a ref anyway, but he did an okay job considering how much fouling was going on in the first half of the fight. he was trying to get himself a bit too involved early though, and did break up some of the inside action too quickly. but still, can't blame him for jumping the gun a couple times when the in-fighting was so heated and dirty.

mayweather has always, and WILL ALWAYS get away wtih sticking his forearm in his opponent's face. if he never fights outside the US, he'll never be penalized for it. he should have lost a point tonight for how much he was using his elbows/forearms. but if he hadn't used the elbows/forearms, it only would have led to hatton falling into him and an even uglier fight wtih even more clinches.

mayweather stops him late or outpoints him 19 times out of 20 regardless of referees, point deductions, fouls, or where the fight takes place.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Method @ Dec 9 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]369494[/snapback]
Dumbest fucking analogy I've read in a while. Smething I would have expected from Hawkins.


LOL Sorry to disappoint you there Method.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Dec 9 2007, 06:35 AM) [snapback]369433[/snapback]
Didn't remember it as being a push. I remember Floyd ducking under and away from a punch, then Ricky turned to punch him as Floyd moved away with his back facing Hatton.


It was a clearly a push that put Mayweather into position to be the recipient of a shot to the back of the head. Hatton threw the shot after Mayweather was bent over and through the ropes and the punch scuffed off of the rope and partially landed on the back of Mayweather's head. Obvious punch thrown with intent to land (and it did partially), obvious foul, obvious call for a point deduction.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Dec 9 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]369477[/snapback]
Not that the fact that you had big money riding on Floyd has anything to do with your opinion. laugh.gif


Floyd won the fight by knockout so Cortez and the point deduction mean nothing in terms of me winning a Mayweather bet.

salvador
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 9 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]369560[/snapback]
Floyd won the fight by knockout so Cortez and the point deduction mean nothing in terms of me winning a Mayweather bet.


Are you seriously telling me that you didn't jump out of your chair and scream for joy when he took that point from Hatton - particularly given the fact that neither Lampley or Merchant was questioning Lederman's rediculous scorecard? Come on, at that moment you were damn glad Cortez was in the ring.

I think Cortez was fine, but I also think that Mayweather's team got in his head before the fight. Look at the replay of Hatton-Castillo and how Cortez handled that vs how quick he was to break Hatton-Floyd apart and constantly tell Hatton that the holding was his fault when Floyd was doing at least half of the holding.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(Method @ Dec 9 2007, 10:21 AM) [snapback]369494[/snapback]
Dumbest fucking analogy I've read in a while. Smething I would have expected from Hawkins.

LOL.
I saw a pic the other day and it reminded me of Method.



There was actually another one that I wanted to use but cannot find it now. It was one with a pic of Daffy saying, "My anger management class is fuckin' pissing me off!!!" LOL. But this one does as well.

But I can see exactly where BBS is coming from. The analogy fits perfectly. Just because the rope got in the way of the full on foul does not mean that the point deduction was not warranted. It was not like Ricky tried to hold back or caught himself in the act of trying to nail Floyd in the back of the head. Ricky went for it. He knew what he was doing and full on went for it. It is a blatant attempt and was rightfully deducted a point. Had Cortez not done anything after that attempt, his credibility surely would have been in check.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 9 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]369574[/snapback]
But I can see exactly where BBS is coming from. The analogy fits perfectly.


Thanks Southeast. Not sure why it ruffled Method's feathers so much?

Southeastpaw
QUOTE(salvador @ Dec 9 2007, 03:06 PM) [snapback]369572[/snapback]
Are you seriously telling me that you didn't jump out of your chair and scream for joy when he took that point from Hatton - particularly given the fact that neither Lampley or Merchant was questioning Lederman's rediculous scorecard? Come on, at that moment you were damn glad Cortez was in the ring.

I think Cortez was fine, but I also think that Mayweather's team got in his head before the fight. Look at the replay of Hatton-Castillo and how Cortez handled that vs how quick he was to break Hatton-Floyd apart and constantly tell Hatton that the holding was his fault when Floyd was doing at least half of the holding.

Well as long as you thought Cortez was fine in there, it really doesn't matter what else.

It is just natural to be overjoyed in a fight of this caliber when the fighter you are rooting against gets a rightfully point deducted. I was very happy. To tell you the truth, I was surprised with Lederman's scorecard. I was more disappointed should I say. He was way off. I actually gave Hatton 2 rounds. And they weren't the two rounds that Lederman gave him. Floyd was fighting against everyone last night. He was fighting against Hatton, the crowd, GBP, the commentators, Lederman. At least the judges and the ref were doing the right thing in there.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Dec 9 2007, 03:06 PM) [snapback]369572[/snapback]
Are you seriously telling me that you didn't jump out of your chair and scream for joy when he took that point from Hatton - particularly given the fact that neither Lampley or Merchant was questioning Lederman's rediculous scorecard? Come on, at that moment you were damn glad Cortez was in the ring.


LOL no, not at all. I fully expected Hatton to be competitive early in the fight before Mayweather found his groove (similar to losing early rounds to Judah) and that Hatton would win some early rounds. I knew that Mayweather would take over and dominate late, so the point deduction to me meant nothing. This wasn't going to be a 1-point fight, so a 1-point deduction means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

STEVENSKI
I thought Cortez was nothing short of a disgrace & I will never watch another fight "refereed" by this paid off son of a whore. I can understand leaning a bit towards a house fighter or the home fighter but his actions were questionable to say the least.

Yes I wanted to see Mayweather lose & I do not deny that but Cortez was in a league of his own, shit even shady Nady would have been fairer.

Floyd repeatedly turned his back on his opponent & blatantly & consistantly elbowed Hatton in the face. He should have lost at least two points for his repeated flouting of the rules in there. How many warnings does PBF need before points start being taken? Cortez even went over to his corner to have a heart to heart with Roger & then it began again in earnest.

I don't doubt that it was a tough fight to referee but Cortez was shameful in his enforcement of standardized rules.
Frankenzilla

Im suprised noone is mentioning the fact that floyd was also holding the back of Rickys head and hitting him ALOT in the first few rounds.


Both fighters were pretty dirty, but I think Floyd was just as deserving, if not more, of having a point deducted.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Frankenzilla @ Dec 9 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]369637[/snapback]
Im suprised noone is mentioning the fact that floyd was also holding the back of Rickys head and hitting him ALOT in the first few rounds.
Both fighters were pretty dirty, but I think Floyd was just as deserving, if not more, of having a point deducted.


it would be nice to see people other than brand new users actually step up and say that, but I totally understand you want to save face which is exactly why you created your new account today. Thanks for the support dog.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Frankenzilla @ Dec 9 2007, 10:04 PM) [snapback]369637[/snapback]
Im suprised noone is mentioning the fact that floyd was also holding the back of Rickys head and hitting him ALOT in the first few rounds.
Both fighters were pretty dirty, but I think Floyd was just as deserving, if not more, of having a point deducted.


I agree. If anyone needed a couple of points taken it is PBF.
Snoop
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 9 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]369643[/snapback]
I agree. If anyone needed a couple of points taken it is PBF.

I felt both fighters were equally dirty. Both fighters deserved point deductions.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 9 2007, 04:34 PM) [snapback]369632[/snapback]
I thought Cortez was nothing short of a disgrace & I will never watch another fight "refereed" by this paid off son of a whore. I can understand leaning a bit towards a house fighter or the home fighter but his actions were questionable to say the least.

Yes I wanted to see Mayweather lose & I do not deny that but Cortez was in a league of his own, shit even shady Nady would have been fairer.

Floyd repeatedly turned his back on his opponent & blatantly & consistantly elbowed Hatton in the face. He should have lost at least two points for his repeated flouting of the rules in there. How many warnings does PBF need before points start being taken? Cortez even went over to his corner to have a heart to heart with Roger & then it began again in earnest.

I don't doubt that it was a tough fight to referee but Cortez was shameful in his enforcement of standardized rules.

Do you think that Cortez was aweful in the Hatton/Castillo fight as well?
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(Frankenzilla @ Dec 9 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]369637[/snapback]
Im suprised noone is mentioning the fact that floyd was also holding the back of Rickys head and hitting him ALOT in the first few rounds.
Both fighters were pretty dirty, but I think Floyd was just as deserving, if not more, of having a point deducted.

For what. They were BOTH fouling back and forth. But what did Floyd do that was as blatant as what Hatton got fouled for? Tell me. What they were doing on the inside was back and forth and not too serious. One would do something small, then the other. Then Ricky took it to another level and got what he deserved. Plain and simple.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 9 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]369649[/snapback]
Do you think that Cortez was aweful in the Hatton/Castillo fight as well?


He was pretty ordinary in that as well from what I saw. As Johnny Lewis said after Cortez tried to fuck Tszyu in the Mas fight "If you are going to screw us at least give us our pants back".

STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 9 2007, 10:48 PM) [snapback]369650[/snapback]
For what. They were BOTH fouling back and forth. But what did Floyd do that was as blatant as what Hatton got fouled for? Tell me. What they were doing on the inside was back and forth and not too serious. One would do something small, then the other. Then Ricky took it to another level and got what he deserved. Plain and simple.


There are two things between your temples & above your nose but below the hairline. Learn to use tham they are called eyes & you can see with them.

PBF repeatedly & blatantly elbowed Hatton in the face in addition to his persistant & obvious lacing of Hatton especially after he was cut in addition to turning his back on his opponent.

Hatton clubbed PBF a couple of times on the neck due to PBF initiating clinches & playing reverse limbo. They were both rough but PBF was dirty something Hatton was not in this fight.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 9 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]369649[/snapback]
Do you think that Cortez was aweful in the Hatton/Castillo fight as well?

That along with Bowe Holyfield 1
Imperius3
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 9 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]369652[/snapback]
There are two things between your temples & above your nose but below the hairline. Learn to use tham they are called eyes & you can see with them.

PBF repeatedly & blatantly elbowed Hatton in the face in addition to his persistant & obvious lacing of Hatton especially after he was cut in addition to turning his back on his opponent.

Hatton clubbed PBF a couple of times on the neck due to PBF initiating clinches & playing reverse limbo. They were both rough but PBF was dirty something Hatton was not in this fight.


Mayweather was not striking Hatton with his elbows MMA style. He would use his elbows to push off and establish distance while Hatton was mauling him. It was pretty minor. And Hatton did initiate most of the clinching. How can anyone deny that?
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 9 2007, 05:48 PM) [snapback]369650[/snapback]
For what. They were BOTH fouling back and forth. But what did Floyd do that was as blatant as what Hatton got fouled for? Tell me. What they were doing on the inside was back and forth and not too serious. One would do something small, then the other. Then Ricky took it to another level and got what he deserved. Plain and simple.


In Cortez's defence:

It was that kind of fight {Fight fire with fire} so, I can't see elevating one foul over the other. A foul is a foul, its not any less if floyd or hatton commits it. If you watch the fight again {As I have several times} Cortez was trying to gain control from the onset. {hense the quick & early breaks} By the 4th round he started to let them fight with the exception of holding the head down and when they were deadlocked. Hatton was clubbing to the very end and floyd was elbowing till the very end and all cortez did from the 4th on was warn them ..... again with the exception of the point deduction to hatton. Which would have drawn a deduction in any fight in the US. {Not in the UK, but in the US, it is a foul!!!}

Cortez did a good job in there considering the circumstances. ALL {I mean everybody who watched the fight} knew that hatton was going to fight that way. The only question was how was the ref going to contain the BS.

I agree with hatton, its not a tickling match, but then again its not a wrestling street fight either. You can't fault hatton for his fighting habits, you would have to fault all those UK refs that let it develop into his style of fighting. Hatton has had 40+ fights where the refs let him commit any kind of foul that didn't involve a weapon. So this late in his career, how else is he going to fight. Blame the UK refs that let fouls develop into a style, rather than a ref that is trying to contain them.
BrutalBodyShots
Good post db.

Taking a point away from a fighter (either fighter) in a lopsidedly scored fight really means nothing anyway other than to attempt to prevent that fighter from again doing whatever prompted the referee to take the point.

I think Cortez was "fair but firm" as always. Both Hatton and Mayweather were doing their fair share of minor fouls all night long, basically on par with one another and Cortez more or less let it all go. I think the shot to the back of the head was stepping over the line however which is why Cortez took the point.

This was nothing like the pro-Hatton ref that was in there for Hatton-Tszyu or anything.

STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Dec 10 2007, 01:07 AM) [snapback]369666[/snapback]
Mayweather was not striking Hatton with his elbows MMA style. He would use his elbows to push off and establish distance while Hatton was mauling him. It was pretty minor. And Hatton did initiate most of the clinching. How can anyone deny that?


No he was not using MMA style elbows he was cheating nonetheless. His blatant & repeated flouting of the boxing rules should have earned him at least two point deductions for the elbows & flagrant lacing of Hattons cut. Clinching is not illegal elbowing & lacing are. It is that simple.

BTW I was not giving you stick over the use your eyes comment only saying a foul is a foul no matter who commits it.


BrutalBodyShots
Again, in a fight that's not even close on the scorecards why all the talk about point deductions?

I could see if this fight ended in a close SD or MD for Mayweather people could be pissed that Mayweather got the decision due to A - Hatton's point deduction or B - Mayweather's lack of point deductions... but it DIDN'T end that way. It was a KO, and even if it wasn't Mayweather was en route to winning about 9 or 10 rounds of the fight in most views.

BigG
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 10 2007, 01:46 AM) [snapback]369671[/snapback]
No he was not using MMA style elbows he was cheating nonetheless. His blatant & repeated flouting of the boxing rules should have earned him at least two point deductions for the elbows & flagrant lacing of Hattons cut. Clinching is not illegal elbowing & lacing are. It is that simple.

BTW I was not giving you stick over the use your eyes comment only saying a foul is a foul no matter who commits it.


The fact is, they were both dirty. Hatton tried to play his rough physcial game, and PBF did it right back. HAtton got a point deduction for pushing PBF against the ropes then attempting a rabbit punch.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. The scores of the judges were pretty wide and PBF stopped him.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 9 2007, 08:54 PM) [snapback]369675[/snapback]
Anyway, it doesn't matter. The scores of the judges were pretty wide and PBF stopped him.


Yup, exactly correct.
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 9 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]369578[/snapback]
Thanks Southeast. Not sure why it ruffled Method's feathers so much?


I thought it was perfect. Anyone got a better one??


Method
Brute, nothing personal, brother, but it's just that comparing a kick in boxing to a questionable illegal punch? Makes absolutely no sense. A kick...ANY kick...is a FOUL. Illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. Kinda like using hands on a soccer pitch.

A punch to the back of the head is illegal, but there is a level of judgement involved. Was it intentional? Accidental? Did the recipient turn his back (in the case w Mayweather)? Did it even land? In the case last night, I don't think Hatton should have been penalized. Floys turned his back, and Hatton didn't even land the fucking blow.

Joe Cortez looked AMATEURISH in there in the opening rounds. WAY over-reffing the fight. Floyd WAS initiating a lot of the holding. Whatever. As someone said earlier, Bernard played him good, and it is obvious to me that Joe Cortez's style can be eaily puppeteered by any fight team rasing enough of a beef.

All that said, Brute, agree with you 100% in that the point deduction don't mean shit given Floyd K'd Hatton TFO. I will say, in general, though, I am of the opinion that a point deduction in a competitive, intense fight can change a guy's psyche and force him out of his rhythm/strategy, and it always sucks to have a ref impose to much of himself in an outcome.

Scores were wide as fuck at the time of the stoppage as well, which was surprising.
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