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and the NEW
QUOTE(The Ring Dictator @ Dec 10 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]369729[/snapback]
You were probably referring to Mayweathers personality when you, in another post, said he is one of the "strangest" talents to grace the sport(?), but speaking about strange... Williams! That dude is beyond strange. And a very welcomed freak in the sport (we miss you Hearns). smile.gif


Yes, the style of Williams, including the height, makes him very strange! An awkward customer! Hearns was not too strange, very tall, magnificent boxer, who never knew when to tie up!

What makes Mayweather so weird for me, is not his personality, Zab, Roy are similar to him, giant egos and money obsessessed!

The fact that Mayweather knows EXACTLY when to tie up, when to turn out, when to dance, the fact that he watches every single thing and uses his timing to hit all kinds of little openings he sees with that incredible vision and the fact that he can use that shoulder so damn well, is what makes him so so strange. I have never seen anything quiet like him in the history of the sport. Even watching footage on the other defensive wizards like Benny Leonard, Willie Pep or even a guy like Pea, just dont quiet do it like Mayweather. They are more cagey and movers, keeping out of the killzone and using subtle head movements. Mayweather can just lie on the ropes, make opponents miss and watch everything enabling him to pick them off at the same time. Very very weird indeed! He just seems to suck their energy out of them while his own back is on the ropes, incredible capability to just be able to absorb it with so much ease! Kind of reminds me of a black hole, that just sucks things in and then destroys them. He used the same style against Hatton, against Ndou, and these were two of his most brutal, destructive and impressive fights. He ruined Ndou, lets hope he didnt ruin Hatton.....
BigG
^ I agree. Weather you like PBF or not, you have to admit, that skill-wise, he might be top 5 of all time.
and the NEW
Mayweather is one of the very best out there, I have no doubt about that!

Dont really rank P4P all-time, way too complex for me, think Ive only ever attempted to rank the lights and welters top 10-15, but then splitting the divisions into P4P is even harder.

Only Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard are clearly above Mayweather for me as far as what they accomplished. Mayweather has now dominated the sport for just as long as any of the other guys (from Duran, Gans, Benny Leonard), beat nearly as many, if not as many top quality fighters, and while doing it, remained undefeated! That alone has barely been done before! His still yet to meet that bogey man, that most other great come up against, and as of now, he has nearly cleaned out every good/great fighter from 130 to 154. Thats my opinion at least and remember argueing it years back, but now he has added DLH and Hatton to his resume, it just confirms it more in my mind.
BigG
Yeah. in terms of legacies, there are guys out there greater then Floyd (Leonard, Robinson) BUT you definitely can't find many in history that are more skilled and talented then Floyd. Mayweather will be a very hard fighter to beat.
and the NEW
Most definately. Not to mention, he is the kind of fighter who can really adapt. He showed against Corley, Ndou, Hatton, that he can stand in there and trade if he wants, and he showed against guys like DLH, Corrales, Castillo that he can box. Then he showed against guys like Mitchell and Zab another quality all-together, that he can actually pressure the fight and walk a man down should they try to counter punch themselves in order to throw his natural style out.

One of the most adaptable fighters out there, if not the most, which would always help immensly if he did come up against a bogey man and have to fight a rematch! Castillo looked like he could be that man, but Floyds lead right and generalship got him out of that one!
dbdbdb
QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 10 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]369872[/snapback]
Yes, the style of Williams, including the height, makes him very strange! An awkward customer! Hearns was not too strange, very tall, magnificent boxer, who never knew when to tie up!

What makes Mayweather so weird for me, is not his personality, Zab, Roy are similar to him, giant egos and money obsessessed!

The fact that Mayweather knows EXACTLY when to tie up, when to turn out, when to dance, the fact that he watches every single thing and uses his timing to hit all kinds of little openings he sees with that incredible vision and the fact that he can use that shoulder so damn well, is what makes him so so strange. I have never seen anything quiet like him in the history of the sport. Even watching footage on the other defensive wizards like Benny Leonard, Willie Pep or even a guy like Pea, just dont quiet do it like Mayweather. They are more cagey and movers, keeping out of the killzone and using subtle head movements. Mayweather can just lie on the ropes, make opponents miss and watch everything enabling him to pick them off at the same time. Very very weird indeed! He just seems to suck their energy out of them while his own back is on the ropes, incredible capability to just be able to absorb it with so much ease! Kind of reminds me of a black hole, that just sucks things in and then destroys them. He used the same style against Hatton, against Ndou, and these were two of his most brutal, destructive and impressive fights. He ruined Ndou, lets hope he didnt ruin Hatton.....


Good post .......... And I think all the qualities you described is what make him soo difficult to beat. If you focus too much on one aspect of his game you will pay a price for forgetting the other parts of his game. And this is where hatton and his trainer made critical mistakes. You cannot just think that you can bull-rush and smother a guy like floyd and win. You have to have a plan for every aspect of floyds game to beat him. And then you have to execute to perfection in each area. And there haven't been any fighter's out there who could do it. Floyd doesn't seem to lose his focus during a fight and he doesn't seem to get tired during a fight. Very good preparation, Very good awareness, and very good skillset.

There will always be the bogie man out there with the lucky shot of a lifetime {aka Tarver} but that lucky shot is the only thing that will probally take floyd down IMO.

Because you can forget about outboxing him, and you can forget about out thinking him during a fight.
and the NEW
Yeh, see a guy like Hearns would be the most BRUTAL fight for Floyd! But Hearns is a once in a century type of fighter! Not to mention, Mayweather is BY FAR the naturally smaller guy, so the matchup is kind of unfair.

I think the fighter to beat Floyd would be more measured in their attack with a good jab of their own, similar to Oscar and Castillo, not just walking into the killzone carelessly, as Corrales and Hatton did (this enables Floyd to hit you too easily). They also need to RAKE the body all night long and have a HUGE body punch. Another thing they need is great fitness, keep their hands HIGH (DLH did this well) and throw a loopy right hand (similar to Mosley). Cotto has most of these things, if he can just learn to throw a loopy right hand better.

Another thing you need to do is throw punches from unconventional angles (a guy like Mayorga, Corley, though this is hard to do unless you started doing it young) as Mayweather cannot see these coming and use that vision to roll with them and cover using his shoulder. You would really need to prepare for Maywaether as a totally seperate fight, practicing every aspect in training and then execute it well, but no doubt, it can be done! Every fighter can be beaten!



dbdbdb
QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 10 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]369887[/snapback]
Yeh, see a guy like Hearns would be the most BRUTAL fight for Floyd! But Hearns is a once in a century type of fighter! Not to mention, Mayweather is BY FAR the naturally smaller guy, so the matchup is kind of unfair.

I think the fighter to beat Floyd would be more measured in their attack with a good jab of their own, similar to Oscar and Castillo, not just walking into the killzone carelessly, as Corrales and Hatton did (this enables Floyd to hit you too easily). They also need to RAKE the body all night long and have a HUGE body punch. Another thing they need is great fitness, keep their hands HIGH (DLH did this well) and throw a loopy right hand (similar to Mosley). Cotto has most of these things, if he can just learn to throw a loopy right hand better.

Another thing you need to do is throw punches from unconventional angles (a guy like Mayorga, Corley, though this is hard to do unless you started doing it young) as Mayweather cannot see these coming and use that vision to roll with them and cover using his shoulder. You would really need to prepare for Maywaether as a totally seperate fight, practicing every aspect in training and then execute it well, but no doubt, it can be done! Every fighter can be beaten!


Here's the thing though, every fighter approches a fight with floyd like this {Here is the thing I can do to beat him} There is no one THING!!!!!. You have to be multi-facetted with a dynamic approch to winning. You have to have {Like you stated} an inside gameplan, an outside gameplan, and a dynamic gameplan {That changes based on what is happening} If you come into the fight with that one thing, floyd will see it and change his stragegy instantly.

Its like what the announcer stated on either SKYBox or HBO, floyd is studying what you're doing during the fight and making changes to his game at the same time. Which shows how dynamic he is to alter what he's doing during the middle of a fight at will. The hatton fight is a very good example, hatton and his trainer kept saying that hattons style will cause all kinds of problems for floyd. BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF RICKY'S STYLE DOESN'T HAVE THE EFFECT YOU EXPECTED, THEN WHAT????? In this regard ricky is and was one-dimensional because when he saw that floyd was dealing with the pressure very well, he had no plan B to execute.
The Original MrFactor
In this fight, I saw a level of toughness and ferocity in Mayweather that I havent seen since the Chico fight. He genuinely wanted to kick Hatton's ass. There was a time that I thought Cotto would beat him up. Not anymore. I think Floyd gives Cotto a beating. Floyd showed he's tough and got a little mean in him. I still dont think he beats Williams, or Margarito because they would hit him too much. I think Floyd can Handle Cintron as well. I just see so many possibilities at WW. They probably wont happen though...
PR316
I think in terms of PURE TALENT AND SKILL, I would rank Floyd up there with the likes of Robinson, Leonard, Ali, and Jones. When speaking of the combination of skill and grace/style, you can't deny Floyd there.

In terms of his reign and quality of opposition, in truth he falls short of Leonard, Robinson, and Ali. I think even Roy's quality of competition was better. But thats not Mayweather's doing there. He's been in there with legitimate threats and not only beat them, but dominated them all. To say that he would or would not have been able to beat guys like Gavilan, Hearns, Chavez, Duran, Benitez, and others is an exercise in futility. I know I'm gonna get probably get flamed for this one, but I think "Pretty Boy" on his best night, would have been able to beat Julio Cesar Chavez. But thats speculation there. I have no actual proof it would happen but I'm just stating I could make an argument.


Floyd much like a PRIME Roy, was never really challenged. People will say that yeah they fought alot of bums, but in all honesty, who did Roy in his prime not face that would have had a legitimate shot at beating him?.. The only fighter I would have given a shot at beating a prime Roy was Joe Calzaghe. As far as Floyd goes, from 130 pounds all the way to 147 pounds, as of now I honestly cannot see a fighter who can beat him. Not Paul Williams, not Miguel Cotto, definitely not Antonio Margarito. He already beat Oscar who everyone considered a legitimate threat and he wasn't really challenged in that fight either. If you ask me, he had a rather easy time in there. Maybe a rough spot or 2 in the late rounds when he got clipped cleanly a couple of times but for the most part he just rendered De La Hoya ineffective. And as far as guys he didn't face that would have beaten him, the only guys he didn't face that I would have considered to be legitimate threats were Shane Mosley and Kostya Tszyu. One could easily say that these two guys would have beaten Floyd, but maybe Floyd is one of those guys who if truly challenged would have raised his game like the Robinsons, Leonards, and Alis and beaten his opponent. All speculation.


kidbazooka1
The obviouse pick here would be Floyd but I gove Cotto a real good chance at beating him. Like a prime Castillo Cotto is an aggressive heavy puncher and an animal at pounding the body. I can see him fighting a Castillo type fight(1st fight ofcourse)and pulling off a win but I wounldn't bet on it.
Douchebag
QUOTE(kidbazooka1 @ Dec 10 2007, 09:09 PM) [snapback]369899[/snapback]
The obviouse pick here would be Floyd but I gove Cotto a real good chance at beating him. Like a prime Castillo Cotto is an aggressive heavy puncher and an animal at pounding the body. I can see him fighting a Castillo type fight(1st fight ofcourse)and pulling off a win but I wounldn't bet on it.



I'm with you on this one I think Cotto is just crafty enough with his aggresive style pull off the upset. He can definitely land some clean shots when goes southpaw and thats better then 80% of comp that floyd has faced right there. The reason why I say that is because he doesn't stay southpaw for too long but he does fight out of it and it would give Floyd look that he is not used to. It very hard to prepare for some one with that ability.

The CEO
I think Cotto could beat Mayweather 1, maybe 2 times out of 10.

Mayweather would simply outbox him like he did DLH. I see it being a clear 8-4 type fight.

Saturday's performance reminded us that Floyd has a fucking arsenal of plans and skills at his disposal...and power to boot.

Cotto is a beast, but Mayweather has the tranquilizer.
JD
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Dec 10 2007, 09:38 PM) [snapback]369903[/snapback]
I think Cotto could beat Mayweather 1, maybe 2 times out of 10.

Mayweather would simply outbox him like he did DLH. I see it being a clear 8-4 type fight.

Saturday's performance reminded us that Floyd has a fucking arsenal of plans and skills at his disposal...and power to boot.

Cotto is a beast, but Mayweather has the tranquilizer.


Size IS going to matter against Floyd, Cotto is just not a big welter.
torvix2000
Mayweather has had a lot of tactical boxing education for quite a while. He's learned a lot from DLH, Judah, Hatton, etc. When I said tactical it means that he's studying how to nullify different strengths of opponents by not facing someone who owns all of those strengths. By the time he faces Cotto, he knows how to nullify all of Cotto's strengths.
Douchebag
QUOTE(JD @ Dec 10 2007, 09:41 PM) [snapback]369904[/snapback]
Size IS going to matter against Floyd, Cotto is just not a big welter.



When you size do you mean height? Because size as in mass and build Cotto is very big welterweight and that is what he uses to win fights.
JD
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Dec 10 2007, 09:47 PM) [snapback]369908[/snapback]
When you size do you mean height? Because size as in mass and build Cotto is very big welterweight and that is what he uses to win fights.


I mean physical size...height...reach, BMI does not mean anything to me here...and I would not consider Cotto to be a "very big" welterweight at all. Margarito, Paul Williams, Joshua Clottey, Kermit Cintron...those are big welters.

Cotto is extremely skilled, likely moreso than any of the aforementioned...he is just not all that large, especially compared to the other top welters.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Dec 10 2007, 09:38 PM) [snapback]369903[/snapback]
I think Cotto could beat Mayweather 1, maybe 2 times out of 10.

Mayweather would simply outbox him like he did DLH. I see it being a clear 8-4 type fight.

Saturday's performance reminded us that Floyd has a fucking arsenal of plans and skills at his disposal...and power to boot.

Cotto is a beast, but Mayweather has the tranquilizer.

I agree with this, I think all the conditions would have to be perfect, and Floyd has the flu, and Cotto wins. Maybe 1 time out of 10.

The thing with Floyd is that he makes easy work out of everybody, much like PR316 said about Roy. I really think Floyd, if he beats Cotto, cements himself as a legend in boxing.
singletrack
QUOTE(JD @ Dec 9 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]369485[/snapback]
Mayweather beats Cotto and does so easier than he did Hatton in my opinion.

Cotto cannot close the distance like Hatton can, and though whatever Cotto lands will do a lot more damage - he won't land, and he will get hurt. Williams or Margarito are better fights because of their workrate, size and stamina...Williams presents more problems with his reach, height, and boxing ability; Margarito presents more problems with aggression, power and physicality.

Skillwise, Cotto is better than Williams or Margarito...but I think the size factor will come into play bigtime. I hope I am wrong, and know I will be pysched if Floyd does fight him, but I have my concerns.


Easier than Hatton is a JOKE of a statement man, and I typically respect your opinion. Hatton RAN in, taking shots with no jab and wild hooks (maybe landed 2 or 3?); comparing him to Cotto is absurd. Of course he gets in quickly - he barely defends himself!

PBF will beat Margarito easily IMO - sticking and moving for 12 rounds. Margarito cannot adapt; Floyd can.

Williams would be tough for Mayweather, but it will never happen. I heard they sucked the marrow out of his bones so he can make weight <wink wink>

I really think Cotto will be one of the greatest Puerto Rican fighters of all time. I've never really said that, but always hoped for it. I think with what I've seen from him to date, and especially lately, he has the opportunity to make it a reality. Honestly though, he could lose to Floyd and STILL be one of the greatest of all time.

singletrack
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Dec 10 2007, 09:02 PM) [snapback]369895[/snapback]
In this fight, I saw a level of toughness and ferocity in Mayweather that I havent seen since the Chico fight. He genuinely wanted to kick Hatton's ass. There was a time that I thought Cotto would beat him up. Not anymore. I think Floyd gives Cotto a beating. Floyd showed he's tough and got a little mean in him. I still dont think he beats Williams, or Margarito because they would hit him too much. I think Floyd can Handle Cintron as well. I just see so many possibilities at WW. They probably wont happen though...


I sincerely hope Floyd goes crazy and believes he can stand in there with Cotto like he did Hatton. Cotto will punish him severely. Unfortunately Floyd knows that gameplan is not the right recipe. He probably learned a ton from watching Cotto fight Mosley, and I'm sure he has no "one plan" to beat him. This will be a fight in which the man that adapts best will win. They BOTH do things that can cause the other problems...severe problems.

Floyd beat a good, tough, but one-dimensional junior welterweight. He did all the right things, but I don't think it tells us a thing about how a Cotto fight would go. Despite what Floyd may have said after the fight, he thinks Hatton is junk. I know he does, because I think that and Floyd is Floyd. If he continues to discredit Hatton, then it makes his fight meaningless. He did the same thing after the Gatti fight and that was the most one sided fight in the history of boxing. Brits should be proud of Hatton - he has a huge heart, decent ability, and he is a genuine person.



singletrack
I think Cotto wins a split decision in a controversial win that demands a rematch. I'll have to see the first fight to predict the second : )

I think Cotto will be able to land his jab at a significant rate. Not as good as Judah or Mosley, but enough to be a factor in the fight. Floyd will fight this fight similar to the DLH fight and that will be the difference. I think Cotto will come forward most of the fight, but fight much smarter than DLH. Cotto will not head hunt like DLH. It is an easy thing to do against Floyd's great defense. The difference is that Cotto doesn't care...like a miny Marciano, he will punch you in the shoulders, elbows, whatever. Floyd will take more punishment in this fight than ever before in his career.

Still, Floyd is one of the best pure boxers of all time and he will do some great things. But I see Cotto tightening up his game every fight, and he will probably get another fight in before the PBF fight and improve even more.

I can't wait for this fight, I just hope I can afford/get tickets.

I'd love for Floyd to recognize the significance of this fight and learn how to properly trash talk like someone such as Bernard Hopkins.
BigG
If Mayweather fights Cotto, he fights Cotto like he foguht Baldomir. Mayweather wont stand inside with Cotto and will not go into a shell on the ropes. Hatton was pretty helpless because he isn't as clean of a puncher as Cotto and he isnt as big or hits as hard as Cotto. Cotto at WW is not tall but the man is built like a tank. Really strong upper body.

He gives Floyd hell.

Anyone else think Cotto would take Ricky out in 8 or under if they fought?
BigG
Cotto is about as fast as Castillo...and Castillo was able to apply steady pressure on Floyd...unlike Hatton with all his footspeed walked into everything until finally getting stopped. He fought same way Jesus Chavez fought Floyd.

I TRULY respect Hatton for the heart and courage he showed against Mayweather, but the man was out of his league.

Cotto to me is without a doubt a better fighter then Hatton. Not as quick. But bigger, stronger, better jab, more polished. I believe he will give Floyd a hell of a time and Floyd wont bust him up like he did Ricky. He would win just like he won the Castillo fight.

Also, Cotto took shots from Judah withouit being seriously hurt, and you cant find a better combination of speed and power then Judah. I'm just saying that for Floyd to win, he will have to fight the most cautious fight possible because if Cotto gets him on the ropes, expect Cotto to punish the body.
BigG
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 11 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]369956[/snapback]
I don't think it matters. Like Hatton said after the fight "I don't think he is the hardest puncher I have faced but he is very accurate and makes the right room for his punches"

That's what separates Mayweather and Judah. Sure Judah hits harder and is quicker (when throwing a single shot), but Judah doesn't follow up when he has a guy hurt. Mayweather is dead accurate and will not stand there like an idiot when he has a guy hurt infront of him. So yeah, Cotto took shots from Judah, but that doesn't mean Mayweather can't stop him. It's not difficult to get stopped when someone keeps tagging you at the same spot.



It matters somewhat because Judah has the power to seriously damage when he lands. And if you dont think Jduah doesn't follow up, you must not have seen his earlier fights. He didn't follow up against Cotto because Cotto wasn't seriously hurt. He tired to follow up in round 1 after the monster uppercut. In round 2 when he made Cotto wobble, Cotto recovered in a 2nd and was ducking punches.

I honestly dont think Floyd would stop Cotto. it's possible, but I definitely doubt it. Floyd would really fight the most cautious fight possible and Cotto...just like he did Baldomir.
BigG
He went for the kill against Spinks and pretty much everyone he fought at 140. Fitz, I advice you to watch the Cotto fight again man and you will CLEARLY see that Cotto was never in any serious trouble from the shots Zab landed.
BigG
You can see Cotto-Judah clips in the Cotto highlight video I made

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MigmBs2GCuE
JD
QUOTE(singletrack @ Dec 10 2007, 11:31 PM) [snapback]369922[/snapback]
Easier than Hatton is a JOKE of a statement man, and I typically respect your opinion. Hatton RAN in, taking shots with no jab and wild hooks (maybe landed 2 or 3?); comparing him to Cotto is absurd. Of course he gets in quickly - he barely defends himself!

PBF will beat Margarito easily IMO - sticking and moving for 12 rounds. Margarito cannot adapt; Floyd can.

Williams would be tough for Mayweather, but it will never happen. I heard they sucked the marrow out of his bones so he can make weight <wink wink>

I really think Cotto will be one of the greatest Puerto Rican fighters of all time. I've never really said that, but always hoped for it. I think with what I've seen from him to date, and especially lately, he has the opportunity to make it a reality. Honestly though, he could lose to Floyd and STILL be one of the greatest of all time.


Listen man...I will be right there with you...I will have the Don King Puerto Rican flag in hand and all.

I just think that this fight is a bad style matchup for Cotto. He is going to have to make his way inside, and he does not have the best foot speed, and if when he is forced to fight Floyd at a measured pace on the outside, he will struggle. In the middle rounds against Malignaggi he had some problems with his boxing, and Paulie is not 1/100th what Floyd is. I am not comparing Cotto to Hatton at all, different styles...different fighters, I just happen to think that Floyd handles Cotto's style without a ton of trouble, especially since Cotto cannot close the distance as quickly.

Give me Cotto over Hatton as he times the Hitman coming in, but I dunno about the Floyd fight being all that close - I think it is a bad fight for him. If he lands, than it will be interesting to see Floyd deal...hell, it will be interesting to see Floyd deal with lefthook to the shoulder Gianluca Branco style; I just don't think he stays there long enough, or even at all.
WolfishPromistah
Like Hatton, what's going to make Floyd's win over Cotto so much sweeter is that he'll probably KO him, again surprising folks. "Mosely couldn't do it," they'll say, and most thought that if he'd KO Ricky it was going to be on cuts. But he shut all that up.
JD
QUOTE(WolfishPromistah @ Dec 11 2007, 08:13 AM) [snapback]369977[/snapback]
Like Hatton, what's going to make Floyd's win over Cotto so much sweeter is that he'll probably KO him, again surprising folks. "Mosely couldn't do it," they'll say, and most thought that if he'd KO Ricky it was going to be on cuts. But he shut all that up.


He could stop Cotto. I think he will end up respecting him far more in there than he did Hatton, which can lead to a distance fight...but if he gets into potshot mode, and lands one Cotto does not see, he can hurt him and than look to finish.
The Original MrFactor
I think all of this talk about Cotto/Mayweather is moot because Floyd is on vacation. In the meantime, Cotto will probably fight someone that has a strong chance to beat him. That someone could be Paul Williams or Antonio Margarito. If Cotto cant secure a DLH payday, there are only those 2 guys. I'd be pissed if he ends up fight Luis Collazo, Joel Julio or Andre Berto. He needs to continue to ride this streak of fighting to dogs. Williams should be his next fight, but I'll accept Margarito...
falvoa
Lil Floyd should be able to defeat Miguel Cotto.

Although I think Cotto is more skilled then is Hatton (better reflectes more importantly), I think he will have difficulty with the speed of hand and foot of Mayweather.

Lil Floyd could stay on the outside but still be aggressive as he picks Cotto apart with potshots. Again, Cotto has better skills then Hatton, better defense to he could make the bout interesting, but I don't think he will be able to get through Mayweather's defense or even withstand he powerful counters to win the bout.

At this point, while I'd love to see a KO if that bout would happen, I give Cotto's skills the benefit of the doubt and say he is able to go the limit but with Lil Floyd taking a fairly comfortable decision.

Mayweather W12u Cotto

aggressive.gif
xxxxxx
The only way Mayweather-Cotto becomes a bigger fight than it is right now in my opinion would be if Cotto fights Oscar and beats him badly.I don't blame Floyd for wanting to take time off, but then the rust factor comes into play which could hurt him if he takes too much time off.Mayweather also could lose the Cotto fight if Cotto lost to De La Hoya which is also a possibility.Either way, I don't think Mayweather needs to fight again to prove he's a top 10 p4p fighter of all-time, but if he does add a couple more significant fights like Cotto or Williams ,he would enhance his Legecy and standing even further as an all-time great.Especially the Williams fight because of the huge physical advantages Williams has.It would be insane to see Mayweather in there with the punisher and actually trying to adjust to his reach and height.I think Williams needs a few more big wins himself to warrant a fight with Mayweather though.Maybe if Williams unified the entire division and beat Cotto that would make a Mayweather-Williams fight even more significant.A lot would have to happen though and that seems unrealistic at this point.
dbdbdb
Honestly ...... Floyd needs & deserves a vacation: 3 fights in 2005 | 2 fights in 2006 | 2 fights in 2007

2007-12-08 147 Ricky Hatton 145 43-0-0
2007-05-05 150 Oscar De La Hoya 154 38-4-0
2006-11-04 146 Carlos Manuel Baldomir 147 43-9-6
2006-04-08 146 Zab Judah 145 34-3-0
2005-11-19 147 Sharmba Mitchell 145 56-4-0
2005-06-25 139 Arturo Gatti 140 39-6-0
2005-01-22 139 Henry Bruseles 138 21-2-1

You can add Cotto to the list in 2008
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 11 2007, 05:11 AM) [snapback]369954[/snapback]
I'm just saying that for Floyd to win, he will have to fight the most cautious fight possible because if Cotto gets him on the ropes, expect Cotto to punish the body.


I totally disagree with this and want to know why everyone keeps bringing up Cotto's great body attack. Mayweather DOESN'T GET HIT cleanly to the body (or anywhere really). Cotto may punish Mayweather's elbows, but not his body. Just like everyone was saying that Hatton was going to punish Mayweather's body... and how many effective body punches did Hatton get in all night? You could count them on 1 hand.

Mayweather is like a Toney or Hopkins in that his opponents simply don't connect clean on him... VERY rarely anyway. And another huge factor that needs to be taken into consideration with ALL of Mayweather's opponents is that they find out very quickly about 1/3 of the way into the fight that his speed/accuracy combo is something they have not had the pleasure of dealing with in the past. Look at how many guys have started out doing decent against Mayweather looking pretty good and then by the middle of the fight they are completely shut down and defensive minded. Mentally that's gotta wreck you every time you are about to jab and you get clocked with a lead right hand that you never have a chance to react to... or you are about to throw a lead right hand yourself and you get iced with a left hook that you never saw coming. You'll see Cotto's punch output drop dramatically around the middle of the fight, meaning he will be landing even fewer punches of the already low percentage of clean shots he landed earlier.

I disagree with Mayweather having to fight such a cautious fight. He has the ability to stay outside and play the lead right hand/left hook game all night with an occasional jab thrown in all night long, OR when the distance closes his defense allows him to evade just about everything clean and he always manages to get his own work in.

streetlion1
**NEWS FLASH**
FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR. IS OVER-RATED!!!

WHO BESIDES AN OLD DE LA HOYA AND AN EQUALLY OVER-RATED HATTON HAS HE BEATIN?! NOW MAYBE THE SAME COULD BE SAID FOR COTTO BUT, WHEN IS THE LAST TIME YOU HEARD ABOUT COTTO DUCKING ANYBODY? HE JUST BEAT A VERY GOOD SHANE MOSLEY (A GUY WHO MAYWEATHER WANTS NO PART OF) AND PROVED IN THAT FIGHT THAT HE IS MORE THAN JUST A STRAIGHT-AHEAD WARRIOR. NOW IM NOT DENYING FLOYD HIS CREDIT BECAUSE HE DESERVES IT, BUT ALL OF HIS FIGHTS ARE HAND-PICKED. THAT IS THE REASON HE HAS LOOKED SO DOMINANT, AND THE REASON HE IS OVER-RATED! HE HASNT DONE LIKE ALL THE GUYS WHO WILL GO DOWN AS BEING GREAT HAVE-AND THATS FIGHT ALL CHALLENGERS! I WOULD HAVE COTTO WINNING THIS FIGHT BY DECISION POSSIBLY LATE ROUND KNOCK-OUT. MAYWEATHER WOULD RESORT TO FIGHTING THE WAY HE DID IN THE FIGHT WITH DE LA HOYA AND BACK UP ALL NIGHT LONG. THE DIFFERENCE IS COTTO IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF BEAST--THE BEST BODY-PUNCHER IN THE SPORT WITH A SOLID CHIN AND CAN FIGHT ALL 12 ROUNDS. THIS IS THE LAST FIGHT FLOYD WANTS TO TAKE! DONT GO HOLDING YOUR BREATH FOR THIS ONE. YOUR MORE LIKLEY TO SEE DE LA HOYA V.S. COTTO. THAT WOULD BE A BETTER FIGHT ANYWAY.
salvador
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Dec 11 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]369980[/snapback]
I think all of this talk about Cotto/Mayweather is moot because Floyd is on vacation. In the meantime, Cotto will probably fight someone that has a strong chance to beat him. That someone could be Paul Williams or Antonio Margarito. If Cotto cant secure a DLH payday, there are only those 2 guys. I'd be pissed if he ends up fight Luis Collazo, Joel Julio or Andre Berto. He needs to continue to ride this streak of fighting to dogs. Williams should be his next fight, but I'll accept Margarito...


Cotto's fighting DLH next. Arum's not going to let this chance at a megapayday go by and neither will DLH. Take it to the bank. And while you're there, take Williams' name off of Cotto's future opponent list. There's no way on earth Arum lets 5'7" Cotto in the ring with 6'2" Williams.
Method
I actually think Cotto is more competitive w Floyd than Hatton was, and I think a big part of it is because he is much more comfortable at 147 than Hatton was. I was also impressed at Cotto's boxing ability versus Mosley, one of the fastest boxers, at least hand speed-wise, in the sport. Cotto offset Mosley with timing and speed of his own....things that I hadn't previously thought him capable of.

I still expect Mayweather to win, and I could see a stoppage, but I think Cotto would be more competitive.
BigG
QUOTE
I totally disagree with this and want to know why everyone keeps bringing up Cotto's great body attack. Mayweather DOESN'T GET HIT cleanly to the body (or anywhere really). Cotto may punish Mayweather's elbows, but not his body. Just like everyone was saying that Hatton was going to punish Mayweather's body... and how many effective body punches did Hatton get in all night? You could count them on 1 hand.

Mayweather is like a Toney or Hopkins in that his opponents simply don't connect clean on him... VERY rarely anyway. And another huge factor that needs to be taken into consideration with ALL of Mayweather's opponents is that they find out very quickly about 1/3 of the way into the fight that his speed/accuracy combo is something they have not had the pleasure of dealing with in the past. Look at how many guys have started out doing decent against Mayweather looking pretty good and then by the middle of the fight they are completely shut down and defensive minded. Mentally that's gotta wreck you every time you are about to jab and you get clocked with a lead right hand that you never have a chance to react to... or you are about to throw a lead right hand yourself and you get iced with a left hook that you never saw coming. You'll see Cotto's punch output drop dramatically around the middle of the fight, meaning he will be landing even fewer punches of the already low percentage of clean shots he landed earlier.

I disagree with Mayweather having to fight such a cautious fight. He has the ability to stay outside and play the lead right hand/left hook game all night with an occasional jab thrown in all night long, OR when the distance closes his defense allows him to evade just about everything clean and he always manages to get his own work in.


Well, Jose Louis Castillo in their first fight was able to get to Floyd's body quite a bit. Although some were low blows and some were inside the clinch but still. You are right, like Hopkins and Toney, it is very difficult to hit Floyd...especially with a headshot. But Cotto is kind of an accurate, heavy-handed puncher and although he has been rocked before, he has a pretty decent chin. He took some bombs from Judah and Sugar Shane. I'm just saying, Cotto will give Floyd a tougher fight then most other people. Him and PWill are the only guys with a shot at Floyd.

And if Floyd's stands in the pocket with Cotto, he will feel the heat.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 11 2007, 06:05 AM) [snapback]369961[/snapback]
You can see Cotto-Judah clips in the Cotto highlight video I made

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MigmBs2GCuE



Nice video, dude.
singletrack
QUOTE(Method @ Dec 12 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]370117[/snapback]
I actually think Cotto is more competitive w Floyd than Hatton was, and I think a big part of it is because he is much more comfortable at 147 than Hatton was. I was also impressed at Cotto's boxing ability versus Mosley, one of the fastest boxers, at least hand speed-wise, in the sport. Cotto offset Mosley with timing and speed of his own....things that I hadn't previously thought him capable of.

I still expect Mayweather to win, and I could see a stoppage, but I think Cotto would be more competitive.


Method gets it, I don't know why everyone doesn't.

It's almost like people have totally forgotten that Cotto CAN box. We saw him do it against Abdulaev, and more recently, against Mosley. His defense has improved every fight and he has MANY more weapons than Hatton - most importantly, a damaging jab. DLH gave PBF big problems and he stopped jabbing and came in throwing crazy hooks late in the fight. Again, he supposedly hurt his rotator cuff, whatever the case was, Cotto is a more dangerous fighter to PBF at this stage in his career than was DLH. Expect this fight to be closer than the DLH fight....which was a SD...so that should tell you how this will go.

I REALLY see PBF fighting in a similar fashion to how he fought DLH, except Cotto will win that style fight.
singletrack
QUOTE(WolfishPromistah @ Dec 11 2007, 08:13 AM) [snapback]369977[/snapback]
Like Hatton, what's going to make Floyd's win over Cotto so much sweeter is that he'll probably KO him, again surprising folks. "Mosely couldn't do it," they'll say, and most thought that if he'd KO Ricky it was going to be on cuts. But he shut all that up.


LOL! You are predicting another KO of Cotto? hahahahahaha

Where's Nay Sayer and AmblingAlp or whatever his name is to back you up on this?
BigG
Man, it seems to me that alot of people under-estimate Cotto. I remember right before the Malignaggi fight everyone was talking about how Paulie was such a bad matchup for Cotto and look what happened.

But I think Floyd would probably win a decision. But I dont think Cotto gets stopped.

Thanks Roll. I love making those things.
singletrack
QUOTE(JD @ Dec 11 2007, 07:31 AM) [snapback]369972[/snapback]
Listen man...I will be right there with you...I will have the Don King Puerto Rican flag in hand and all.

I just think that this fight is a bad style matchup for Cotto. He is going to have to make his way inside, and he does not have the best foot speed, and if when he is forced to fight Floyd at a measured pace on the outside, he will struggle. In the middle rounds against Malignaggi he had some problems with his boxing, and Paulie is not 1/100th what Floyd is. I am not comparing Cotto to Hatton at all, different styles...different fighters, I just happen to think that Floyd handles Cotto's style without a ton of trouble, especially since Cotto cannot close the distance as quickly.

Give me Cotto over Hatton as he times the Hitman coming in, but I dunno about the Floyd fight being all that close - I think it is a bad fight for him. If he lands, than it will be interesting to see Floyd deal...hell, it will be interesting to see Floyd deal with lefthook to the shoulder Gianluca Branco style; I just don't think he stays there long enough, or even at all.


Floyd is a bad style matchup for anyone...he's the best fighter in the world. Cotto v. Malignaggi was a learning experience...if you want to see his current boxing, and conditioning, than the Mosley fight is a better indication. He looked like he broke out of a concentration camp pre-Malignaggi. I think he was also surprised and discouraged that he wasn't able to finish Paul off. But Paul is a tough SOB.

Look, you said he beats him easier than Hatton. I think that is a joke, because with the exception of a couple of wild hook while running in, Hatton did piss all against Floyd save hugging him. If PBF wins, he will know, and look like, he was in a fight. This isn't just about the inside fight, Cotto WILL land his jab on Floyd and it WILL setup bigger things - straight rights, inside work, etc.

Trust me, this is going to be a close fight.
singletrack
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Dec 12 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]370122[/snapback]
Nice video, dude.


Video rocks George!
BigG
Thanks man
JD
QUOTE(singletrack @ Dec 12 2007, 11:35 AM) [snapback]370127[/snapback]
Floyd is a bad style matchup for anyone...he's the best fighter in the world. Cotto v. Malignaggi was a learning experience...if you want to see his current boxing, and conditioning, than the Mosley fight is a better indication. He looked like he broke out of a concentration camp pre-Malignaggi. I think he was also surprised and discouraged that he wasn't able to finish Paul off. But Paul is a tough SOB.

Look, you said he beats him easier than Hatton. I think that is a joke, because with the exception of a couple of wild hook while running in, Hatton did piss all against Floyd save hugging him. If PBF wins, he will know, and look like, he was in a fight. This isn't just about the inside fight, Cotto WILL land his jab on Floyd and it WILL setup bigger things - straight rights, inside work, etc.

Trust me, this is going to be a close fight.


I did say easier than Hatton, due mainly to my concern that Floyd will have an easier time pot shotting because of the footspeed disparity. What makes it all the more crazy is that I think Cotto does have a better chance than Hatton did because if he lands, he will hurt Floyd...but I just don't think he will. And if he gets stuck fighting at a distance because of Floyd's respect for him, and constant movement, than it will be an easier fight for Floyd.

No knock on Cotto at all, the dude is extremely skilled and ready and willing to fight anyone - I just think that that fact that Floyd does not have the same type of fighting spirit Mosley did will make this a very hard fight on him.

Besides, I am starting to think that we are more likely to see Cotto - Mosley II or Cotto - Margarito.
Southeastpaw
I was surprised with Cotto's speed and accuracy during the Mosley fight. And the way Cotto halds his guard would make him tougher to hit than Hatton was. Much tougher fight for Floyd than many see it.
JD
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 12 2007, 12:08 PM) [snapback]370137[/snapback]
I was surprised with Cotto's speed and accuracy during the Mosley fight. And the way Cotto halds his guard would make him tougher to hit than Hatton was. Much tougher fight for Floyd than many see it.


I hope so, though the Mosley fight did not surprise me, nor did his jab in that fight.

I have been wrong plenty of time before...and will again, I just think Cotto is going to get caught between styles. He can't walk Floyd down and pound on him, and he can't fight at a distance and outbox him...he needs to time him and land something big, and timing Floyd is real tough. To make matters worse for Cotto, I don't think he will even consider going to the ropes against him...time will tell.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(JD @ Dec 12 2007, 10:59 AM) [snapback]370136[/snapback]
Besides, I am starting to think that we are more likely to see Cotto - Mosley II or Cotto - Margarito.

BS.

I can see Cotto's people calling out ODLH, that's simply the smart and easy business decision to make. However, if they can't get Oscar then the only name that should be on Cotto's representative's lips is M A Y W E A T H E R. If Cotto fights anyone other than ODLH or FM then the CEO will need to start a Cotto hatewagon....
JD
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Dec 12 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]370144[/snapback]
BS.

I can see Cotto's people calling out ODLH, that's simply the smart and easy business decision to make. However, if they can't get Oscar then the only name that should be on Cotto's representative's lips is M A Y W E A T H E R. If Cotto fights anyone other than ODLH or FM then the CEO will need to start a Cotto hatewagon....


You assume that Floyd will want the fight by the middle of next year - which I am not so sure about. Cotto has already come out and said how disappointed he is that Floyd wants to take a vacation - if that fight does not happen in '08, I think we can safely assume that it will not be because Cotto is ducking him; Floyd is bored with the sport and wants a break...those were his exact words. It was clear that Cotto wanted to fight the winner of last Saturday's fight - and it was clear after the event nothing had changed from Cotto's perspective, but Floyd did not seem all that interested. So in short, the name that is on Cotto's representative's lips is M A Y W E A T H E R, I think they just realize that it may not happen.

Mosley has now come out and said that he wants the rematch, and I think that if Cotto were to grant it to him, there would be no reason to criticize him for it. The first fight was a damn good scrap, Mosley did better in both of his immediate rematches, and Cotto does not seem like the kind of guy who will shy away from a fight.

I don't see how fighting Oscar at this point is any more difficult than fighting Mosley. Either fight should not lead to Cotto being criticized.

The Margarito fight comes down to what Arum wants to do, and the last thing that would surprise me is if we see the two of them share a ring. Mosley II, DLH, Mayweather, Margarito...I have no problem with Cotto's camp choosing any of these guys as opponents.
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