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PR316
Robby at middleweight wasn't quite as special as he was at welterweight, but in his prime he fought several of his fights within the range of 152-156 pounds.


Hagler at his best usually weighed in between 157 to 160 pounds. A few non-title fights he weighed in over the 160 pound limit.


At the weight limit of 160 pounds with Robinson coming in at about 152 pounds to Hagler's 157 pounds, what do you guys think happens in this fight??.. Keep in mind that I am thinking of a prime Robinson here. The one who was struggling to make the welterweight limit of 147 pounds in his fights against Kid Gavilan and Charley Fusari, and of course the version of Hagler who fought Tommy Hearns.
The CEO
I'd have to say Robinson wins at least 7 times out of ten in 15 rounders.

From what I've seen of Sugar (and I haven't seen the most)...him being faster and more active than Hagler is the key here...as well as his accuracy and straightness of punches....he was clearly the better pure boxer. I don't know if many here know this...but his chin was almost on par with Hagler's as well..

So I'm thinking he would typically outbox Hagler en route to a 11-4, 10-5, 9-6 sort of card....the times Hagler would win would either be by TKO or KO...and that would be where Robby was drawn into a war, and his pride prevented him from boxing the night out...it would be a huge task for ANYONE in history around that weight to go toe to toe with Hagler...
kidbazooka1
Wow this would have been a 15 rd war I can't see either fighter stopping each other. I would give the edge to Robinson even at MW he was still awesome.
and the NEW
Robinson, faster, lands more jabs, lands the harder blows.
Maxy
I have to go with Robinson. In another thread I found it difficult to pick a winner between Hopkins and Hagler, so for this one I'm pretty sure Robinson would take it on points in a gruelling fight.
BigG
At 160 I pick Hagler by close decision..
PR316
I could actually understand the argument that Hagler's sheer strength in close could see him to a close decision win. However, lets keep in mind that I'm thinking of the Robinson who barely made weight for his fights against Gavilan and Fusari(Robby was 28 years old at this time).


I do believe that Robinson was physically stronger than Hearns and had the chin to withstand Hagler's artillery. Its a tough fight. I see Robinson in the early goings able to keep his distance with his fast feet and piston like jabs. By the middle rounds, I think Hagler is able to close the distance and really do some serious damage. In fact I think he even would be able to floor Robinson and hurt him very badly.


But the fact that Robby was never stopped at any weight other than his fight against Maxim in which he was KO'd by heat exhaustion, tells me that Sugar would pull through it, and close very strong with quick and powerful combinations, staggering Hagler once or twice en route to a split decision win in which both men come out showing facial damage.
The CEO
Hagler's one of my favorites...but I can't outright pick anyone over Robinson around his weight...

AT his best, he was the perfect Boxing Machine......when he was fighting behind the jab...with those torturous power punches...in and out...

Talk about "unbeatable" skill and style, he had it...he was just an awesome mix of everything...fast and strong...chin and heart....graceful and Evil.
PR316
One thing I know for sure is that stamina would not be an issue with either guy. Sugar had to be one of the best conditioned boxers to ever grace a ring. And Hagler was just a beast, plain and simple.


Interestingly enough, Hagler could look at Robinson and almost see him as being nearly identical to Hearns. The hand speed, punching power, the long arms. But toughness is the difference here. Robinson could pay the price that Hearns was unable to pay. Even if Robby were to go down, he would be able to fight through it and box and slug his way to victory.


Robinson's bolo uppercut would be a huge weapon here against Hagler who liked to get low and inside.
and the NEW
I agree with your analysis 100% PR!
kidbazooka1
QUOTE(PR316 @ Dec 11 2007, 12:12 PM) [snapback]370004[/snapback]
One thing I know for sure is that stamina would not be an issue with either guy. Sugar had to be one of the best conditioned boxers to ever grace a ring. And Hagler was just a beast, plain and simple.
Interestingly enough, Hagler could look at Robinson and almost see him as being nearly identical to Hearns. The hand speed, punching power, the long arms. But toughness is the difference here. Robinson could pay the price that Hearns was unable to pay. Even if Robby were to go down, he would be able to fight through it and box and slug his way to victory.
Robinson's bolo uppercut would be a huge weapon here against Hagler who liked to get low and inside.


Robinson also had a better chin than Hearns.
xxxxxx
QUOTE(kidbazooka1 @ Dec 12 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]370140[/snapback]
Robinson also had a better chin than Hearns.



Thats a bold statement. laugh.gif
Nobudius
The Hagler from the Hearns bout gets hit too much, & SRR would take advantage of it. If we take the Sibson/Obel Hagler, he'd present him w/ some major problems.

Watching the Lamotta VI, & then the Fullmer bouts, you can really see Robinson losing his legs. Against The Bull, he was on his feet, waiting for the opportunities to strike Lamotta. It's pretty amazing he gave a good account of himself by being in the pocket with the likes of Fullmer, Turpin, & Basilio.

Speaking of SRR uppercuts, check out the youtube clip around the 1:36 mark. Goes to show you what a tough bastard Basilio was, & probably still is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuPNG0jV9DY

PR316
^^^Robinson did begin to lose his legs by the time he fought Lamotta in the St Valentines Day Massacre, but the Robinson that fought Gavilan and Fusari still had his legs(By all accounts and footage from the Fusari fight) and was struggling to make 147. At any weight around the 152-156 range, he'd be very comfortable and too fast on his feet for Hagler I feel, at least for many parts of the bout.

Both guys would get punished thats for sure.
Nobudius
PR,

Interestingly enough, several people were citing SRR as past his best even when he faced Gavilan. If you look at his ledger, he really had to wait for his welterweight title. He was 73-1-1 at the time he beat Tommy Bell, and maybe he would've had the opportunity earlier if not for the war.

Oddly enough, it wasn't until Marty Servo gave up his title, & it became vacant in 46'. Robinson had already beaten Servo in 41' & 42'.
BigG
Reason I think Hagler would win because Robinson at 160 wasnt the unbeatable monster he was at 147. From the clips, I've seen, he was extremely fast, offensively, he might've been better then Sugar Ray Leonard, but defensively, he wasn't. LaMotta would land alot of clean punches while Ray had his back on the ropes. I think Hagler is a better fighter then LaMotta. I think both guys would get punished for sure, but I think Hagler would rally late and win.
and the NEW
Robinson better than Leonard offensively is not a might. There was absolutely no comparison in any kind of parralel universe! Robinson had one of the most blazing attacks in the history of boxing! I dont think Ive ever quiet seen a boxer with power in both hands like that! Hearns is the only one, but his right appeared by far his dominant hand! Watch his left hook against the indestructable Fullmer, or the way he knocked out Graziano, absolutely astonishing punches, proof of one punch power in both hands!

Though I do agree, he was easier to hit than Leonard, not quiet as slick, and I dont think, even with that power, he could stop Marvelous Marvin, though, never say never. Nobody ever thought he could stop Fullmer or LaMotta either!

Both fighters would cop a BRUTAL beatdown, though I think Robinson definately had more power in both hands and was quicker. I could see the possibility of Hagler working him over 15 also and slightly outscoring him, though, I wouldnt bet on it.

One fight I would find interesting, is Mayweather Vs Robinson at welter, would love to see Mayweather try and cover up on the ropes as he does to absorb punishment, with Robinson unloading those hammers on him! Interesting matchup. Also to see those lead right hands, with a counter left hook being thrown simultaneously by Ray with the heat of the sun on it! I think Mayweather could do ok on the scores, but wouldnt like to see his reaction when Ray landed!
PR316
I think Robinson would have been too big and too strong for Mayweather. But he would definitely find Floyd harder to hit than any other opponent he fought and I don't think he ever fought a guy as quick as Floyd either. But because Floyd wouldn't be able to hurt him, Robinson would come forward with confidence and just whale away for 15 rounds and win a decision that way.
Nobudius
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 13 2007, 10:51 PM) [snapback]370448[/snapback]
Reason I think Hagler would win because Robinson at 160 wasnt the unbeatable monster he was at 147. From the clips, I've seen, he was extremely fast, offensively, he might've been better then Sugar Ray Leonard, but defensively, he wasn't. LaMotta would land alot of clean punches while Ray had his back on the ropes. I think Hagler is a better fighter then LaMotta. I think both guys would get punished for sure, but I think Hagler would rally late and win.



Robinson could be hit, but Lamotta was landing clean punches against SRR b/c he was a GREAT fighter. His approach & skills were on a much higher level than other pressure middleweights like Fullmer or Antufermo.

He gets an unfair rap as a human punching bag due to the "massacre" & his losses to SRR. But his opposition is better than Monzon, Hagler, and Hopkins-and his record is pretty impressive. He would be hell, and was WILLING to go to hell with anybody.
BigG
I agree.

Robinson was an offensive beast with tremendous speed and footwork. However, at 160, he isn't slick like Leonrd therefore Hagler would just be all over him.

I could see this being a trilogy. That's how even I think this is.
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