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Lil-lightsout
I would love to see him fight again. I miss all of his antics and crazy talk, plus watching his skill in the ring, even though he is a lazy fat bastard. I am pretty sure he is finished as far as getting a belt, but I keep hoping he could get in some decent shape and make a run for one again. With the pathetic heavyweight division today, he still can make some good paydays and bring a little excitement to the division. I recently watched the replay of Toney-Peter I, and it got me thinking if we will see him back. I just have not heard anything in a while. I would love for him to get a couple of wins and get a fight with Wlad. Could you imagine a 24/7 show with those two?
Douchebag
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Dec 12 2007, 05:30 PM) [snapback]370187[/snapback]
I would love to see him fight again. I miss all of his antics and crazy talk, plus watching his skill in the ring, even though he is a lazy fat bastard. I am pretty sure he is finished as far as getting a belt, but I keep hoping he could get in some decent shape and make a run for one again. With the pathetic heavyweight division today, he still can make some good paydays and bring a little excitement to the division. I recently watched the replay of Toney-Peter I, and it got me thinking if we will see him back. I just have not heard anything in a while. I would love for him to get a couple of wins and get a fight with Wlad. Could you imagine a 24/7 show with those two?



Toney is done. He is one of my favorite boxers of all time though. If that dude would have had the dicipline he would have definitely been one of the greats.
Boxingjunkie
I agree that Toney could have been great but his piss poor attitude never really set right with the public. Toney had all the skill he just never seemed that interested in trying to be the best. He may come back but does anyone care at this point??
rusty_trombone
NO.
BrutalBodyShots
I would take Toney seriously and tune in to his next fight...

...if I heard it were at Cruiserweight.

Anything else and I wouldn't be interested.

BigG
I love watching Toney fight. He is skilled as hell. Its just his weight man.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 12 2007, 08:03 PM) [snapback]370211[/snapback]
I would take Toney seriously and tune in to his next fight...

...if I heard it were at Cruiserweight.

Anything else and I wouldn't be interested.

Personally, anything under 220lbs. would have me excited, but there is only about a 1% chance of that happening.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Dec 12 2007, 10:29 PM) [snapback]370260[/snapback]
Personally, anything under 220lbs. would have me excited, but there is only about a 1% chance of that happening.


Yeah I guess... I mean that would prove that he at least took training somewhat seriously... except 220 pounds was Toney against Holyfield what like 4 years ago? At THIS stage of the game having been older and taken some heavyweight shots since then I would say Toney needs to be 200 or so to compete at the top level. I don't think a 220 pound Toney at his age could do what a 220 pound Toney did even 4 years ago.

BGv2.0
As long as he does not drag his hulk of a body back into the HW divsion....I could not care less what the guy does.

BUT....due to the fact that that's where the $$$$ is and the fact that TONS of people seem to fall for his loud mouth BS tactics...I'm sure he will return.

I like James Toney...with all he has accomplished over the span of his career how can you not like and respect his abilities? BUT....I have never had any use for him at HW. From the moment he stepped into the divsion I knew it was a sham.

The ONLY single thing he ever impressed me with at HW was his KO of Evander...and due to Evander's age at the time...I cannot give him HUGE credit for that win...he beat a older ex-champ with slow reflexes....but I was impressed with the vicious body attack that led to the KO of one of the hardest HWs to KO....

Other than that....his HW run was a total joke. From BORING UDs over limited Opp...to NC due to steroid use to fat giggling losses to Peter....all he ever did IMHO was screw up the division more than anything.

I do realize his antics brought a lot of attention to the terrible divsion...but in the end...KNOWING he was a snake oil salesman...it was all moot for me.

BUT.....I'll bet we see him back....and at his age...there is noway he can compete at any level IMHO....he cannot get the weight down to be at CW and he's simply to fat and out of shape at HW....BUT....his mouth will get him attention and do to his name recognition and a few wins over limited opp....we might see him in again with a "Champion" at HW.

I mean as much of a waste of time I think it would be....I know TONS of fans would love to see a Toney/Povetkin matchup...

buford54
James was always one of my favorites...even at HW. Anyone who will stand right in front of someone like Sam Peter and leave the ring un-hurt, even in a loss...the guy's got a pair.

The steroid thing really disappointed me. Once...okay, maybe it was his shoulder meds. Twice...I have a hard time buying he had no knowledge of it.

I kept hoping he would get in shape and make a run, but at this point, he's all mouth.
Mean Mister Mustard
I think he will fight again in some small clubfights that will not air on TV. He may get into a position for a title shot but I doubt it.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Dec 13 2007, 02:18 AM) [snapback]370295[/snapback]
The ONLY single thing he ever impressed me with at HW was his KO of Evander...and due to Evander's age at the time...I cannot give him HUGE credit for that win...he beat a older ex-champ with slow reflexes....but I was impressed with the vicious body attack that led to the KO of one of the hardest HWs to KO....


I give him HUGE credit for that win and disagree with you there. Had Holyfield been knocked out since the KO loss to Toney, we could say Holyfield was old couldn't take it any more. However, Holyfield has fought a half dozen times since then against bigger, stronger heavier hitters and has not been close to being stopped since. Credit where credit is due, Toney gets a TON of credit for doing to Holyfield what basically no one else has been able to do.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 13 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]370355[/snapback]
I give him HUGE credit for that win and disagree with you there. Had Holyfield been knocked out since the KO loss to Toney, we could say Holyfield was old couldn't take it any more. However, Holyfield has fought a half dozen times since then against bigger, stronger heavier hitters and has not been close to being stopped since. Credit where credit is due, Toney gets a TON of credit for doing to Holyfield what basically no one else has been able to do.

Very well said. Toney looked awesome that night, and was getting stronger as the fight grew on. He could have beaten any of the champs on that night, heck, that version of Toney could have beaten any heavyweight champ in any era!!!






















Okay, kidding about the last part.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 13 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]370355[/snapback]
I give him HUGE credit for that win and disagree with you there. Had Holyfield been knocked out since the KO loss to Toney, we could say Holyfield was old couldn't take it any more. However, Holyfield has fought a half dozen times since then against bigger, stronger heavier hitters and has not been close to being stopped since. Credit where credit is due, Toney gets a TON of credit for doing to Holyfield what basically no one else has been able to do.



Yeah but NOBODY since then has attacked Holyfield's body the way James did in that fight! Everybody knows you can hit Holyfield in the head all day....Toney was vicious with a body attack...and IMHO that is what got him the TKO.

I give him credit for an impressive TKO over a durable old ex champ....

But do you deny he beat a well past his prime Holyfield?????

You cannot....

And that's why I only give him a level of credit for that win.....

After that fight I still never once thought he'd unify or any of that other nonsense that even some "experts" were claiming.


ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Dec 14 2007, 03:51 AM) [snapback]370479[/snapback]
Yeah but NOBODY since then has attacked Holyfield's body the way James did in that fight! Everybody knows you can hit Holyfield in the head all day....Toney was vicious with a body attack...and IMHO that is what got him the TKO.

I give him credit for an impressive TKO over a durable old ex champ....

But do you deny he beat a well past his prime Holyfield?????

You cannot....

And that's why I only give him a level of credit for that win.....

After that fight I still never once thought he'd unify or any of that other nonsense that even some "experts" were claiming.


Of course. Beating the Holy who beat Bowe or Tyson would've given the win more credit.....but it wasn't.


But it was still a great win for Toney. But it is what it is...a win over a fading legend. A bloody good fading legend though!
BrutalBodyShots
So BG are you saying that Toney was smart as hell or Holyfield's last half dozen opponents were dumb as shit since Toney was the only one to stop Holyfield due to a great body attack?

BGv2.0
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 14 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]370505[/snapback]
So BG are you saying that Toney was smart as hell or Holyfield's last half dozen opponents were dumb as shit since Toney was the only one to stop Holyfield due to a great body attack?


I've always thought Toney was extreamly smart in that fight. I would not so much say all of his last half dozen opponents were dumb as shit....I don't think any could have mounted a consistant attack the way JT did. I do not think they are even capable....They were all bigger men, with less steller defense and speed....something you need to avoid getting busted up on the inside while you mount a body attack.

Like I said...for me that was JT's one good, impressive acheivement at HW.....the rest was all BS nonsense. AND....it's not that I don't think JT could not have beaten the likes of Ruiz, Rock or Peter clearly....but due to his moronic mind set about allowing himself to balloon up to a tub of goo, he always looked less than steller while getting questionable results.

AND....I always knew none of that ever prepared him for the next wave of people he would have had to fought....like Wlad or a Valuev.....where the size difference was just too great.

JT is a smart salesman.....but he was NEVER a real threat at HW....even in this awful division.

He surely would not be now with decently skilled guys like Povetkin and Chambers now in the picture.....closing in on 40 and fat as hell....nah.

Lil-lightsout
Like I said...for me that was JT's one good, impressive acheivement at HW.....the rest was all BS nonsense. AND....it's not that I don't think JT could not have beaten the likes of Ruiz, Rock or Peter clearly....but due to his moronic mind set about allowing himself to balloon up to a tub of goo, he always looked less than steller while getting questionable results.

AND....I always knew none of that ever prepared him for the next wave of people he would have had to fought....like Wlad or a Valuev.....where the size difference was just too great.

JT is a smart salesman.....but he was NEVER a real threat at HW....even in this awful division.

He surely would not be now with decently skilled guys like Povetkin and Chambers now in the picture.....closing in on 40 and fat as hell....nah.
[/quote]
Toney would have toyed with Valuev, Valuev would not even be able to hit him. That giant is GARBAGE!!! He definately would of had trouble with Wlad because of his size AND SKILL level. James Toney could have been a real threat at HW, but like you said, he had terrible weight and training issues. An overweight, undertrained, gave Ruiz, Rock, and Peter all they could handle, an in shape Toney would have beaten them decisively. What a shame.
X3_Bazooka_X3
I personally do not beleive Toney has it in him anymore to go on, I mean his HW run was all about making money before his body turned on him, and that time has come if you have lost to Peter twice who was dropped god knows how many times by McClein its time to quit, honestly I dont think Toney cares to fight on anymore anyways, according to Roach he aint speaking as clearly as he once did, then again Roach also said that about Vasquez going into the rematch with Marquez, honestly stick a fork in Toney if he continues he will only further prove that he didnt really have it at HW to begin with not with this era of HWs perhaps smaller ones like Tyson and Holyfield but these bigger guys no way.
BrutalBodyShots
Well Bazooka, we all know you like to invent your own judging criteria to judge a fight, such as INEFFECTIVE AGGRESSION which in your view made Mayweather-Hatton an EVEN FIGHT in your view. LOL.

So, using your own criteria for judging why don't you go with the following for Toney:

1. Most out of shape for the fight
2. Lesser height
3. Shorter reach
4. Superior showmanship for the fight

Using this criteria Toney beat ANYONE at heavyweight in your view. Congratulations.

ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 16 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]370877[/snapback]
Well Bazooka, we all know you like to invent your own judging criteria to judge a fight, such as INEFFECTIVE AGGRESSION which in your view made Mayweather-Hatton an EVEN FIGHT in your view. LOL.

So, using your own criteria for judging why don't you go with the following for Toney:

1. Most out of shape for the fight
2. Lesser height
3. Shorter reach
4. Superior showmanship for the fight

Using this criteria Toney beat ANYONE at heavyweight in your view. Congratulations.


laugh.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 14 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]370505[/snapback]
So BG are you saying that Toney was smart as hell or Holyfield's last half dozen opponents were dumb as shit since Toney was the only one to stop Holyfield due to a great body attack?




Holy's opponents after TONEy, weren't exactly punchers or even body punchers...he was poorly matched against a bunch of loser's, no hopers and safety 1st guys. So yeah, I'd say they were dumb as hell. None of them had the ability or will to dig to Holy's body after TONEY showed the blueprint...
BrutalBodyShots
All of his opponents after Toney arguably hit as hard or harder than Toney... punching power wasn't the issue, it was simply going to the body. Pretty stupid of none of them to commit to it.

BGv2.0
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 17 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]371011[/snapback]
All of his opponents after Toney arguably hit as hard or harder than Toney... punching power wasn't the issue, it was simply going to the body. Pretty stupid of none of them to commit to it.



Yeah but other than Fres....and even that is a MAYBE.....NONE of those guys had the defensive speed needed to sustain a body attack while getting out of the way of punches. Not the way JT was putting it on him.

That was as vicious a body assault as I had ever seen....and it was effective. But none of the HWs after James could have ever duplicated that level of attack....they may have hit harder....but there was noway they would have put out as many OR got out of the way of Holyfied's punches.

Like I said..Fres maybe....but after tasting canvas in the first round he wanted no part of getting in close.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Dec 17 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]371013[/snapback]
Yeah but other than Fres....and even that is a MAYBE.....NONE of those guys had the defensive speed needed to sustain a body attack while getting out of the way of punches. Not the way JT was putting it on him.

That was as vicious a body assault as I had ever seen....and it was effective. But none of the HWs after James could have ever duplicated that level of attack....they may have hit harder....but there was noway they would have put out as many OR got out of the way of Holyfied's punches.

Like I said..Fres maybe....but after tasting canvas in the first round he wanted no part of getting in close.


Yup, I agree with all of that.

Imperius3
Toney was so quick and agile against Holyfield. He hit Holyfield CLEAN so many times. It was very impressive.

It's a shame he let himself go though. I don't know why he let himself get that fat, but I was one of the people who thought he could have been a huge threat at heavyweight. Oh well, if that's the way it is then that's the way it is.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Dec 18 2007, 05:44 AM) [snapback]371032[/snapback]
Toney was so quick and agile against Holyfield. He hit Holyfield CLEAN so many times. It was very impressive.

It's a shame he let himself go though. I don't know why he let himself get that fat, but I was one of the people who thought he could have been a huge threat at heavyweight. Oh well, if that's the way it is then that's the way it is.



TONEY would have beaten most of the smaller HW's. However all roads pass through Wlad. TONEY along with many others has no shot against Klitschko. His arms are too short...
D-MARV
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Dec 18 2007, 08:25 AM) [snapback]371038[/snapback]
TONEY would have beaten most of the smaller HW's. However all roads pass through Wlad. TONEY along with many others has no shot against Klitschko. His arms are too short...

Agreed! thumbsup_anim.gif
BGv2.0
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Dec 18 2007, 09:25 AM) [snapback]371038[/snapback]
TONEY would have beaten most of the smaller HW's. However all roads pass through Wlad. TONEY along with many others has no shot against Klitschko. His arms are too short...



YEP....and as huge a skill difference as there is...I'm not sure Toney based soley on size only gets the better of a Valuev.

NOW....an in shape Toney of a few years back....IMHO would be able to possibly get the wins over Chagaev or Sultan and for sure Oleg.....but at the end of the day, Wlad was the last in line...and I just don't in any way see JT of any time or of any shape....getting the W there.
BrutalBodyShots
I would have taken the Toney that beat Holyfield over anyone not named Wlad.

Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Dec 18 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]371076[/snapback]
YEP....and as huge a skill difference as there is...I'm not sure Toney based soley on size only gets the better of a Valuev.

NOW....an in shape Toney of a few years back....IMHO would be able to possibly get the wins over Chagaev or Sultan and for sure Oleg.....but at the end of the day, Wlad was the last in line...and I just don't in any way see JT of any time or of any shape....getting the W there.

Come on man, I agree with what you are saying EXCEPT Valuev. Toney would have an easy time with him, Valuev is so unskilled and so slow, he would not hit James with anything. James would not be able to hurt Valuev, but he would surely outbox him.
Imperius3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Dec 19 2007, 07:44 PM) [snapback]371353[/snapback]
I would have taken the Toney that beat Holyfield over anyone not named Wlad.


Or Vitali.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Dec 19 2007, 11:45 PM) [snapback]371384[/snapback]
Come on man, I agree with what you are saying EXCEPT Valuev. Toney would have an easy time with him, Valuev is so unskilled and so slow, he would not hit James with anything. James would not be able to hurt Valuev, but he would surely outbox him.



I'm not basing it on skill.....sure JT could run circles around him....but at some point...slow or not that big behemoth is going to land....and with the sheer size difference...I think even glacing blows might be enough to throw a small HW like Toney off balance...which creates a LOOK of being hurt or rocked. Peter did that very same thing to JT in many instances and honestly I think that's what got him the win.

I'm basing Valuev being a hard fight for Toney based ONLY on the physical aspects....not talent.

How would JT even land a decent head shot? Toney stands about 5'9 or so....this dude is 7ft+....Hell even guys over 6ft like RUiz and Chagiev have to reach....

AND....the fact he could not hurt the goon might make Lurch throw more...

I just don't see that being an 100% easy W for JT. ANd again....I base that opinion on size alone.
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