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streetlion1
On this I would have to answer yes. heres why- Floyd has always been a carfully handled fighter. He has been placed in the ring with only people he knows he can beat. He lacks something that all the great ones had-that is they fought all comers! Guys like DLH,Hopkins,Hagler,hearns, and the list goes on and on. Floyd should never try to put himself in the same league as these guys! He has turned down 8 mil to fight Margarito, seemed scared to fight Mosley, and doesnt even want to talk about Cotto. He just doesnt fight the best. You cant call yourself the best out there if you are constantly turning away top contenders! There are guys out there who would cause pretty boy duck-artist alot of trouble in Mosley, and Cotto. also guys who I feel he would beat easily like Williams,Margarito, and Cintron. Now I know he cant fight them all but, If he at least fought Mosley, and Cotto he would get a-hell-of-alot more respect-Even though then there would be 2 losses on his record. Yes PBF is OVER-RATED!!!
buford54
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 14 2007, 03:02 PM) [snapback]370562[/snapback]
On this I would have to answer yes. heres why- Floyd has always been a carfully handled fighter. He has been placed in the ring with only people he knows he can beat. He lacks something that all the great ones had-that is they fought all comers! Guys like DLH,Hopkins,Hagler,hearns, and the list goes on and on. Floyd should never try to put himself in the same league as these guys! He has turned down 8 mil to fight Margarito, seemed scared to fight Mosley, and doesnt even want to talk about Cotto. He just doesnt fight the best. You cant call yourself the best out there if you are constantly turning away top contenders! There are guys out there who would cause pretty boy duck-artist alot of trouble in Mosley, and Cotto. also guys who I feel he would beat easily like Williams,Margarito, and Cintron. Now I know he cant fight them all but, If he at least fought Mosley, and Cotto he would get a-hell-of-alot more respect-Even though then there would be 2 losses on his record. Yes PBF is OVER-RATED!!!


Look, I don't like Floyd either. But to say he's over-rated is just ridiculous. Nobody is claiming that he's the greatest of all time (except Mayweather, but the fans know that's just stupid).
He is the best P4P fighter in the world at this time.
You would deny him that because he didn't fight Cintron? A man that Margarito made cry? He didn't fight Margarito? A man that Paul Williams beat? Mind you, I think that Williams has the tools to beat Floyd...but I don't expect Floyd to take the fight at this point.
Fact is he steps up to the plate when he needs to. He beat Castillo in the rematch convincingly. His stretch of Gatti/Mitchell/Judah/Baldomir wasn't impressive, and DLH wasn't convincing, but he has moved effortlessly from 130 to 154 pounds and gotten the W against everyone he's faced. Who else has done that that you wouldn't call over-rated? Roy Jones? Floyd's record makes Roy's look toilet paper. And that's because Roy spent most of his career fighting janitors and garbage men.

A lot of people thought Hatton had the style/skills to give Floyd trouble, and he knocked the guy out...something he rarely does.

Just give credit where credit is due. When fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, DLH, and the like are calling him the best fighter in the world, can't you just sit your hate aside for a minute?

If Floyd wants to be an all time great, you are right, he needs to fight the Cotto's and Williams' of the world...but if he is comfortable retiring as p4p best of his generation, then that's his problem.
Spreadking3rd
he's under-rated

basically your complaining about him not fighting welterweights....so the rest of his career I guess you would say he wasn't fighting hand picked opponents.

The reason he fought Oscar and Hatton were for the money.

makes sense to me.

Floyd has never ducked anyone and if the money is right he will fight Cotto or Williams.

If he sits out 18 months........and Cotto or Williams establishes themselves as a number # 2 at welterweight....and HBO puts up the money.....then Floyd will sign the contract.

Or Floyd can fight another name fighter.........pacman at 140 pounds. I don't believe in these catchweights......but the only guy at 147 pounds right now that can give Floyd a payday in Miguel Cotto.......

If Cotto beats Oscar....then Floyd's payday becomes even bigger vs Cotto.

Floyd will fight a Williams or Cotto in the next 2 years...........

he is under-rated..........maybe I under-rated him for many years. I thought Genaro Hernandez would beat him. I thought Corrales would beat him. Then for a lot of years.....he fought bums.....I agree. Henry Bruseles types.

Now that Floyd is the villian I love him and will cheer for him everytime out.
When HBO was hyping him up I didn't like him.
Now HBO is trying to hype other fighters to beat him.
streetlion1
QUOTE(Spreadking3rd @ Dec 14 2007, 04:10 PM) [snapback]370584[/snapback]
he's under-rated

basically your complaining about him not fighting welterweights....so the rest of his career I guess you would say he wasn't fighting hand picked opponents.

The reason he fought Oscar and Hatton were for the money.

makes sense to me.

Floyd has never ducked anyone and if the money is right he will fight Cotto or Williams.

If he sits out 18 months........and Cotto or Williams establishes themselves as a number # 2 at welterweight....and HBO puts up the money.....then Floyd will sign the contract.

Or Floyd can fight another name fighter.........pacman at 140 pounds. I don't believe in these catchweights......but the only guy at 147 pounds right now that can give Floyd a payday in Miguel Cotto.......

If Cotto beats Oscar....then Floyd's payday becomes even bigger vs Cotto.

Floyd will fight a Williams or Cotto in the next 2 years...........

he is under-rated..........maybe I under-rated him for many years. I thought Genaro Hernandez would beat him. I thought Corrales would beat him. Then for a lot of years.....he fought bums.....I agree. Henry Bruseles types.

Now that Floyd is the villian I love him and will cheer for him everytime out.
When HBO was hyping him up I didn't like him.
Now HBO is trying to hype other fighters to beat him.

I am saying simply that he doesnt fight the best. As far as him never ducking anyone explain why he would turn down 8 mil for Margarito. Or why he would turn down shane! I believe he could make alot of money fighting other guys now especially Mosley. Floyd can have the p4p title and all that but Cotto has established himself as the best welterweight so Floyd should look nowhere else! and PacMan at 140 would be a joke-Manny cant even beat the best 140pounders out there. that would be another easy knockout win. I wanna see Mosley or Cotto cause in my opinion those are the only guys who could beat him.
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The Ring Dictator
QUOTE(buford54 @ Dec 14 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]370582[/snapback]
Look, I don't like Floyd either. But to say he's over-rated is just ridiculous. Nobody is claiming that he's the greatest of all time (except Mayweather, but the fans know that's just stupid).
He is the best P4P fighter in the world at this time.
You would deny him that because he didn't fight Cintron? A man that Margarito made cry? He didn't fight Margarito? A man that Paul Williams beat? Mind you, I think that Williams has the tools to beat Floyd...but I don't expect Floyd to take the fight at this point.
Fact is he steps up to the plate when he needs to. He beat Castillo in the rematch convincingly. His stretch of Gatti/Mitchell/Judah/Baldomir wasn't impressive, and DLH wasn't convincing, but he has moved effortlessly from 130 to 154 pounds and gotten the W against everyone he's faced. Who else has done that that you wouldn't call over-rated? Roy Jones? Floyd's record makes Roy's look toilet paper. And that's because Roy spent most of his career fighting janitors and garbage men.

A lot of people thought Hatton had the style/skills to give Floyd trouble, and he knocked the guy out...something he rarely does.

Just give credit where credit is due. When fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, DLH, and the like are calling him the best fighter in the world, can't you just sit your hate aside for a minute?

If Floyd wants to be an all time great, you are right, he needs to fight the Cotto's and Williams' of the world...but if he is comfortable retiring as p4p best of his generation, then that's his problem.


Your dead on man. I agree with every word.
streetlion1
QUOTE(buford54 @ Dec 14 2007, 03:59 PM) [snapback]370582[/snapback]
Look, I don't like Floyd either. But to say he's over-rated is just ridiculous. Nobody is claiming that he's the greatest of all time (except Mayweather, but the fans know that's just stupid).
He is the best P4P fighter in the world at this time.
You would deny him that because he didn't fight Cintron? A man that Margarito made cry? He didn't fight Margarito? A man that Paul Williams beat? Mind you, I think that Williams has the tools to beat Floyd...but I don't expect Floyd to take the fight at this point.
Fact is he steps up to the plate when he needs to. He beat Castillo in the rematch convincingly. His stretch of Gatti/Mitchell/Judah/Baldomir wasn't impressive, and DLH wasn't convincing, but he has moved effortlessly from 130 to 154 pounds and gotten the W against everyone he's faced. Who else has done that that you wouldn't call over-rated? Roy Jones? Floyd's record makes Roy's look toilet paper. And that's because Roy spent most of his career fighting janitors and garbage men.

A lot of people thought Hatton had the style/skills to give Floyd trouble, and he knocked the guy out...something he rarely does.

Just give credit where credit is due. When fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hatton, DLH, and the like are calling him the best fighter in the world, can't you just sit your hate aside for a minute?

If Floyd wants to be an all time great, you are right, he needs to fight the Cotto's and Williams' of the world...but if he is comfortable retiring as p4p best of his generation, then that's his problem.

Well I said I thought he would beat Cintron,Margarito,and Williams easy. Also through all the hype any real boxing follower could've seen the Hatton K.O. coming. His rise through the ranks hasnt been impressive and in my opinion his opposition outside of DLH and a younger Castillo hasnt been impressive either. I do give floyd credit but not as much credit as most people because I dont admire fighters who duck people (mosley,Cotto) I dont beleive either of those fights will happen. He'll have one more easy opponent and hang it up.
Jack 1000
No,

Floyd's not over-rated. He certainly belongs with the top P4P boxers of this area because he has beaten everyone put in front of him, hasn't ducked anyone, fought many champions at their best, and has natural boxing ability. In contrast, Roy Jones may be over-rated by some because he was very self-conscious about facing big punchers for fear of getting hurt, and fought too many no-hopers and former champions at the downside of their careers. But I think that Jones had THE BEST NATURAL ATHLETIC ABILITY IN A BOXER SINCE LEONARD. But Roy, didn't use his abilities to the fullest extent of his capabilities. If Roy for instance had not been afraid to take risks in the ring, by facing big punchers, think of what he could have been? Floyd had to train harder and work harder to get that boxing ability. Roy was a more natural athlete who was often bored with boxing, like Floyd is now.

Jack
Spreadking3rd
Mosley turned down the fight with Mayweather, to spend time with his kids after back to back training camps vs Vargas.
We can at least get that straight.

As for Margarito.....Floyd left Top Rank at the same time, and I think he hasn't fought against a Top Rank fighter since.
Maybe he doesn't like Bob Arum ? got me
streetlion1
Why are people saying Mayweather doesnt duck anyone? maybe early in his career he didnt but over the past couple years he has!
streetlion1
QUOTE(Spreadking3rd @ Dec 14 2007, 09:04 PM) [snapback]370609[/snapback]
Mosley turned down the fight with Mayweather, to spend time with his kids after back to back training camps vs Vargas.
We can at least get that straight.

As for Margarito.....Floyd left Top Rank at the same time, and I think he hasn't fought against a Top Rank fighter since.
Maybe he doesn't like Bob Arum ? got me

Mosley has been calling out Floyd for a while now. Even saying he was growing feathers.
Spreadking3rd
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 14 2007, 09:09 PM) [snapback]370611[/snapback]
Mosley has been calling out Floyd for a while now. Even saying he was growing feathers.


Shane turned down the fight with Mayweather......why should Mayweather give him a 2nd chance.....Mosley had his chance and turned it down. Now Shane just lost.....why would Mayweather fight a guy who lost his last fight ??????? oh that's right.....he fought that loser Oscar.
JD
I have always thought Floyd was a terrific fighter...in the historic sense, it is feasible he is overrated.

Floyd is great defensively and a terrific counter puncher, but I don't think he is a great offensive fighter - though he does setup his offense when he feels comfortable. When I look at him at welterweight, I think that if we look over the past 30 years...guys like Leonard and Hearns beat him, Chavez probably would have worn him down...stylistically the Whitaker fight would have been fascinating...Benitez would have been live in there...the Mosley that fought Oscar would have made for a hell of a fight, a younger Oscar would have been interesting as well. Duran at 147 would have made Floyd question going to the ropes too often...I think a young Vernon Forrest would have been all wrong for Floyd.

I dunno, I guess it depends on how a person rates him...since everyone views fighters so differently, it is tough to just peg a guy overrated or underrated.
streetlion1
QUOTE(Spreadking3rd @ Dec 14 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]370613[/snapback]
Shane turned down the fight with Mayweather......why should Mayweather give him a 2nd chance.....Mosley had his chance and turned it down. Now Shane just lost.....why would Mayweather fight a guy who lost his last fight ??????? oh that's right.....he fought that loser Oscar.

I think its a fight people would want to see. I feel that Cotto did way better against Mosley then Floyd would. Just as a fan. Floyd says he is bored but there are guys who would really challenge him.
streetlion1
QUOTE(JD @ Dec 14 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]370614[/snapback]
I have always thought Floyd was a terrific fighter...in the historic sense, it is feasible he is overrated.

Floyd is great defensively and a terrific counter puncher, but I don't think he is a great offensive fighter - though he does setup his offense when he feels comfortable. When I look at him at welterweight, I think that if we look over the past 30 years...guys like Leonard and Hearns beat him, Chavez probably would have worn him down...stylistically the Whitaker fight would have been fascinating...Benitez would have been live in there...the Mosley that fought Oscar would have made for a hell of a fight, a younger Oscar would have been interesting as well. Duran at 147 would have made Floyd question going to the ropes too often...I think a young Vernon Forrest would have been all wrong for Floyd.

I dunno, I guess it depends on how a person rates him...since everyone views fighters so differently, it is tough to just peg a guy overrated or underrated.

I guess I would have to agree with that, though I think Mosley would still give him trouble today.
JD
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 14 2007, 10:31 PM) [snapback]370616[/snapback]
I guess I would have to agree with that, though I think Mosley would still give him trouble today.


I agree. I could see the handspeed and physicality bothering Floyd.
PR316
Its kinda unfair IMO to put Floyd up against the true great welterweights like Robinson, Leonard, Gavilan, and Hearns. Those were all big welterweights with hand speed and power(Gavilan's power was often underestimated).


As I said in another thread, I think in terms of SKILL and TALENT, I would certainly rank Mayweather with the greats. That doesn't mean I think he'd beat them all in a fight, but I think his abilities are up there with the greatest fighters of all time. Add to that the fact that he pulls it off with style and grace, like Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, and Gavilan did.


As far as matchups go, I think Floyd is better matched up with the great lightweights of all time. Guys like Duran, Ike Williams, Julio Cesar Chavez, Esteban De Jesus, and many others.


Floyd is a small welterweight and his absolute PRIME is not at this weight. Yes it was good enough to beat Oscar and Hatton, and he deserves credit for that. Today he's the best fighter in the world. And I would say he's an all timer. But I don't think he's the greatest of all time.
and the NEW
Floyd is one of the very best Ive ever seen.

Overrated - depends who is rating him. His not the greatest P4P ever (that feat is nearly impossible to acheive with the current fight schedule, red-tape, promotional bullsh*t that has consumed the great sport of boxing and drove fans away in droves), but he is certainly in a league up there with the very best.
Fitz
If you fight at welterweight, you are matched against welterweights. I don't understand why some people nurture fighters, like "he is a small welter, it's unfair to match him against (insert name)". What is this? If you fight at a division, you have every right to be matched against everyone in that division. No need to try give him pass because he is small. They aren't kids.
and the NEW
^^^^^^

PR is simply stating its better (as in fairer, same difference) to match him against guys his natural weight.

Its like saying how would Roy do against Joe Louis?

Or BHOP do against Ezzard Charles?

Or Armstrong do against Hagler?

Or how about Pac against Duran?

Some of these matchups are just unfair, plain and simple. Same as Floyd would have his HANDS FULL against guys like Robinson, Hearns. Just takes away much of his chance of winning.
Fitz
I didn't read the entire thread. I saw JD make a good post at matching him with some welters, and then saw PR post about it not being fair to rate him against big welters. I kind of assumed people were rating him at 147.
I just think if you're talking about matchups at welter, you match him with everyone and not pick and choose with who is your size. Probably should have read everything, but I'm sure you get my point.
Yeah, you are right about him being more suited at the lighter weights though.
The Original MrFactor
Beating Hatton convincingly went a long way with me... But... I'd still like to see him on there with CFotto, Williams and Margarito before I crown this guy king. He needs to beat the 3 of them before he gets my full attention. If he was to beat those 3 he would go out as a legend...
BrutalBodyShots
IMO Floyd should have never fought above 140 in terms of what was natural for him. I completely understand his desire for big money and fighting at 147/154 for that reason. If you go back a few decades before the PPV era and such a stress on the mighty dollar, you had guys moving up simply because they wanted to make great matchups and fight great fights. Floyd moved up for money. That said, had he stayed at 130, 135 and 140 for all of these years he would have without question faced and beaten the best in those divisions by now - at least that's my opinion. Sure at 147/154 he's got to be a little more selective about his opponents as he gives up a lot of his advantages that he had in the lower divisions.

I think it's a little unfair to compare him to the great welters of all time because most weren't champions at 130 pounds prior.

Anyway, I neither think he's over or under rated. One of the best fighters of this era sure, of all time he can be mentioned but not atop of any lists.

BigG
No he isn't.

The man puts on a show everytime he fights, a 6 time champion in 5 weight classes, has beaten numerous world champions.

He is without a doubt the best in this era.
Maxy
I got to agree that Floyd is the best of his era but all this '6 titles at 5 weight classes' don't mean shit to me in this day and age. He won a paper crown at 140...doesn't count for anything, and besides, its much easier to win titles at multiple weight classes these days than it was in the past. How many titles would Henry Armstrong have won in todays era? At least 6 I'd say, and if he won all the belts you could make that 18!
streetlion1
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Dec 14 2007, 11:48 PM) [snapback]370630[/snapback]
Beating Hatton convincingly went a long way with me... But... I'd still like to see him on there with CFotto, Williams and Margarito before I crown this guy king. He needs to beat the 3 of them before he gets my full attention. If he was to beat those 3 he would go out as a legend...

I would agree. Im not just hating on Floyd, my view is that what he does now in the welterweight division is what he should be judged on the most for a couple reasons. #1- This is the prime of his career, and #2- This is where he would face the best competition of his career. Being at 147 he has the chance to make himself great by at least stepping up and fighting some of these guys.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 15 2007, 01:24 AM) [snapback]370634[/snapback]
No he isn't.
The man puts on a show everytime he fights, a 6 time champion in 5 weight classes, has beaten numerous world champions.
He is without a doubt the best in this era.


CO_SIGN!!!! thumbsup_anim.gif

Here's a thought:

If he wasn't the man;
1. people wouldn't be searching far & wide to find someone who has a chance to beat him.
2. people wouldn't be searching the history of Boxing to find some mythical match-up where he would lose.
3. people wouldn't be hating on him constantly, even though he beats everyone that is in front of him.
4. people wouldn't be comparing him or even thinking about comparing him to the greats of the sport.
5. bizaar threads like this one would be null & void

IN SHORT: Give the man his due ....... and stop trying to find a way to bring him down a notch, when he has earned his place. And I stress, HE HAS EARNED HIS PLACE !!!!!!
BrutalBodyShots
Good post db and 100% correct.

Mean Mister Mustard
The Hatton win has certainly earned him some major points legacy-wise. The problem a slick undefeated fighter will always face is the "Yeah he beat fighter A and B, but he never fought fighter C". No matter who he fights there will always be someone elsw to fight.

I'm pretty sure Mayweather will not fight Williams. Cotto is the only fighter against whom he can make top dollars. I would like to see him take on those guys or Margarito. Or even a matchup against Junior Witter, how fun would that be? Speed V.S Speed.

No matter how much you dislike Mayweather (I do, with all that Money May crap) if you are a true boxing fan you must admit he's an extremely skilled and talented fighter. We may hate him now, but 20 years from now we will all be wondering when we will see the next fighter who can do the shoulder roll so brilliantly and who can use their elbows so well.
streetlion1
A fighter should be judged on the caliber of his competion and not just on how many wins he has. He is over-rated until he fights and beats the best and not an old DLH or defenseless Hatton. He says he has nothing left to prove.....how bout proving he can beat these guys- Cotto, Mosley, etc. Ever wonder if he is worried about his record and doesnt wanna fight anyone dangerous?
and the NEW
I love how Margarito keeps getting thrown into the mix of fighters Floyd should fight.

Skip that, who is Margarito, who has he beat? Tell him to earn his spot and beat some LEGIT welters before he goes saying Floyd is running from him, I remember hearing that junk for a long while out of his mouth!

Mosley, Cotto are the two he really needs for his legacy. Cotto has some names on his resume, and Mosley is a HOFer already!

Williams should rack up a few more wins yet against some good fighters (take on Zab, Witter in the meantime), before he gets the chance against Floyd.

Floyd didnt just step in there with Oscar once he looked impressive disposing of Manfredy (though very bad stoppage), he had to EARN his spot to fight one of the legends of the current game!
and the NEW
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 17 2007, 04:38 AM) [snapback]370885[/snapback]
A fighter should be judged on the caliber of his competion and not just on how many wins he has. He is over-rated until he fights and beats the best and not an old DLH or defenseless Hatton. He says he has nothing left to prove.....how bout proving he can beat these guys- Cotto, Mosley, etc. Ever wonder if he is worried about his record and doesnt wanna fight anyone dangerous?


Because Hernandez was not dangerous at the time? And Im SURE I remember like 50% of people giving Corrales a chance, Corrales was unstoppable at the time. Castillo wasnt a big name, but had beat some good guys when he fought Floyd, a very live dog!

How about Zab and Gatti, I remember a few people giving them a shot with one punch!

DLH is past it? While he isnt at his absolute best (heck, he hasnt been there since disposing of Alcazar), but his still a top notch fighter and more than a few gave him a chance.

Hatton is defensless? Not sure if people were saying that after he beat Tszyu and Castillo.

The caliber of competition Floyd has fought is VERY VERY good, as good as most other "all-timers". He has not just beat bums or racked up "wins" and grabbed titles. He has beat most of the best out there in 5 divisions and looked impressive doing so!

What woodwork did you just crawl out of? Progress that brain from a slater, to a true boxing fan, before you go throwing such strong opinions out. Otherwise, just lurk the boards and dont say much. Because your knowledge of the history of the sport is very limited, obviously, yet you like putting it out there! Who has fought EVERYONE of their era who was considered to be dangerous? Bet your list wont get very long at all! Everybody "ducked" someone, or fought one of the best of their era who was "past it". Its the nature of politics and time differences we experience in our sport!
BigG
DLH looked so sharp and in form vs. Mayorga that he was actually the slight favorite in these boards.....Floyd beat him clealry.

Floyd should fight Cotto.

If he fights Cotto and beats him, there will be no doubt that he is the best since SRL.
and the NEW
No doubt Floyd is already a HOFer and an all-time great.

Though, I hope he fights both Cotto and Mosley in order to solidify himself as something very very special! I would also say if he beats them (and convincingly), he is the best since SRL as far as legacy. As far as skill, as good as any!
Fitz
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 17 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]370903[/snapback]
DLH looked so sharp and in form vs. Mayorga that he was actually the slight favorite in these boards.....Floyd beat him clealry.

Floyd should fight Cotto.

If he fights Cotto and beats him, there will be no doubt that he is the best since SRL.


lol, no he wasn't biggeorge. Now you're just trying to pump Mayweather's tires up more than you should.

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.p...st&p=329565

Now, Mayweather beat a decent fighter in DLH, but lets face it. He looked fantastic against Mayorga (Mayorga the key word). He looked good considering the Mayorga fight was his first fight in nearly 2 years compared to his showings in the Hopkins and Sturm fight. That's why people thought he looked good. It was more of a comparison. His fight with Mayweather was his 2nd fight in like two years. DLH was a decent win, but not even close to his prime, I think sometimes people go a little over the top with that win. The fight was damn close as well, I expected Mayweather to win it much easier. I was actually more impressed with Oscar in that fight than Mayweather.
torvix2000
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 17 2007, 10:39 AM) [snapback]370907[/snapback]
The fight was damn close as well, I expected Mayweather to win it much easier. I was actually more impressed with Oscar in that fight than Mayweather.


WTF! I'm agreeing with Fitz now!
BigG
The Mayorga performance was DLH's best at JMW....

I think DLH was pretty close to his prime.

It was a close fight, but there was really one clear winner.

He couldn't move and box with the much quicker and smaller Floyd so all he could do was pressure. I don't see how the DLH who barely beat an old Whitaker could do any better.

I thought it was 7-5, 8-4 for Floyd..nothing more nothing less.

Alot of DLH's shoe-shine flurries hit absolutely nothing but arms, air, shoulder. Floyd again finished the fight with no real bruise or swelling.

DLH DID put up a very good fight. though...and as much as I hate that prick..he is on his way to the HOF.
Fitz
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Dec 17 2007, 10:01 PM) [snapback]370908[/snapback]
WTF! I'm agreeing with Fitz now!


How does it feel to be right for a change? laugh.gif

Just kidding man, haha.
streetlion1
QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 17 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]370902[/snapback]
Because Hernandez was not dangerous at the time? And Im SURE I remember like 50% of people giving Corrales a chance, Corrales was unstoppable at the time. Castillo wasnt a big name, but had beat some good guys when he fought Floyd, a very live dog!

How about Zab and Gatti, I remember a few people giving them a shot with one punch!

DLH is past it? While he isnt at his absolute best (heck, he hasnt been there since disposing of Alcazar), but his still a top notch fighter and more than a few gave him a chance.

Hatton is defensless? Not sure if people were saying that after he beat Tszyu and Castillo.

The caliber of competition Floyd has fought is VERY VERY good, as good as most other "all-timers". He has not just beat bums or racked up "wins" and grabbed titles. He has beat most of the best out there in 5 divisions and looked impressive doing so!

What woodwork did you just crawl out of? Progress that brain from a slater, to a true boxing fan, before you go throwing such strong opinions out. Otherwise, just lurk the boards and dont say much. Because your knowledge of the history of the sport is very limited, obviously, yet you like putting it out there! Who has fought EVERYONE of their era who was considered to be dangerous? Bet your list wont get very long at all! Everybody "ducked" someone, or fought one of the best of their era who was "past it". Its the nature of politics and time differences we experience in our sport!
whoa! bottem line is DLH isnt in his prime, a younger DLH when he fought Trinidad would've won that fight! Hatton beat An old tszyu and castillo so forget Hatton. Corralles was good, but match-up wise not against PBF! Like I said in an earlier posting= He should be judged most by what he does at 147! cause like it or not this is by far the most talent he has ever been around! Its funny how all this retirement talk starts when there are dangerous, very good fighters calling him out! I would highly doubt anyone putting his competition up there with the likes of the Hearns,Hagler,Leonard era! Zab is Zab. Gatti gimme a break! He needs to prove himself against the best!!!!! He doesnt!! he picks and chooses! Guys like Hopkins,DLH,Chavez, etc. never did that they fought everyone thats why they are great!! Do you remember Leonard ducking Hagler?! I think not!!
buford54
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 14 2007, 10:05 PM) [snapback]370610[/snapback]
Why are people saying Mayweather doesnt duck anyone? maybe early in his career he didnt but over the past couple years he has!

I honestly don't believe that Floyd ducks anyone. He is a businessman first. Hence, why I don't like him. BUT, he was offered equal or better money to fight Baldomir then Cotto. Call it ducking if you want, but I have to believe that if he had only been offered 6-7 for Baldy, then he would have fought Cotto.

I used to want to believe that Floyd was ducking people...but, like I said, he steps up to the plate when he needs to. He put in his hard work earlier in the career, then started focusing on making himself a household name brand. So he fought Gatti. That got him on PPV. Since then he's been working his way to where he is now. He probably wants at least 10 million to fight.
Shane turned him down, and then Shane just lost to Cotto. Why should Floyd fight him (same argument I made about him fighting Judah...but still)?
I expect Floyd to stay "retired" until Cotto has a W over DLH, Williams or Cintron and then Floyd will fight him for a mega-payday.

To be honest, I hope that Williams gets established as a big name, because I think he could beat Floyd. I would like to see Floyd fight Cotto and Williams. After that, I don't think there's anyone else for him to beat.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 16 2007, 11:38 PM) [snapback]370885[/snapback]
A fighter should be judged on the caliber of his competion and not just on how many wins he has. He is over-rated until he fights and beats the best and not an old DLH or defenseless Hatton. He says he has nothing left to prove.....how bout proving he can beat these guys- Cotto, Mosley, etc. Ever wonder if he is worried about his record and doesnt wanna fight anyone dangerous?


Now he's "Defenseless Hatton". laugh.gif Before the fight, he was the chosen one to give mayweather hell here on earth.

Now he's "Old DLH" laugh.gif Before the fight, he was the one to finally beat mayweather.

What will it be when Floyd beats Cotto????? Inexperience, didn't get enough sleep before the fight, blinded by the blood running in his eyes.

Also, are you in anyway related to the Official Boxer's rating system or something? At what point in time did your opinion and or thoughts outweight the experts in the profession. laugh.gif

Your flawed logic & rational have given me the best laugh of the day ............ Thanks laugh.gif
kidbazooka1
Yes I believe Floyd is overrated by many on this board.
Al Hata

The fact is that Floyd is a real lightweight, fighting at higher weights to get more recognized. He worked hard to gain the respect he earned.

Like him or not, give him his credit. He's pfp #1 right now. The end.


Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 17 2007, 04:31 AM) [snapback]370901[/snapback]
I love how Margarito keeps getting thrown into the mix of fighters Floyd should fight.

Skip that, who is Margarito, who has he beat? Tell him to earn his spot and beat some LEGIT welters before he goes saying Floyd is running from him, I remember hearing that junk for a long while out of his mouth!

Mosley, Cotto are the two he really needs for his legacy. Cotto has some names on his resume, and Mosley is a HOFer already!

Williams should rack up a few more wins yet against some good fighters (take on Zab, Witter in the meantime), before he gets the chance against Floyd.

Floyd didnt just step in there with Oscar once he looked impressive disposing of Manfredy (though very bad stoppage), he had to EARN his spot to fight one of the legends of the current game!


New, I think a Margarito match would be fun because Antonio posseses Baldmoir's chin but he packs more power, throws more punches and is relentless. PBF has faced all of this before and I would expect him to beat Margarito. But Margarito's size. strenght and relentless pressure would give PBF major problems. I would say that if Margarito was a bit more compact with his punches this would be a repeat of Guzman-Santos, but Margarito throws his punches as wide as a whore's you know what.

I'd much rather see PBF fight Cotto or Williams but Margarito has to be considered one of the top contenders in the division. While PBF fights Cotto or waits for Cotto to fight Williams (Maybe PBF hopes Cotto will rid him of Williams?) Margarito could face Collazo or a rematch with either Cintron or Clottey.
dbdbdb
Margarito is NOT getting back in the ring with Clotty ..... So, you can forget about that matchup. His best bet would be cintron, since he would have the mental edge of beating him convincingly before.

Bottom line is that margarito's main problem is that he won't or can't fight top contenders. Now with that being the case, he has to take less purse just to get a top contender in with him. Which he should do. Fighting c-class fighters constantly is fading him into oblivion quicker that getting KO'ed. So, until he stops fighting guys like golden nobody {His last fight} he will never get any serious regonization or purse.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(kidbazooka1 @ Dec 17 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]370931[/snapback]
Yes I believe Floyd is overrated by many on this board.


Maybe!

But then again, the sports writers and columnists, boxing experts, past greats of the sport, and many others who have been involved with boxing all their lives also believe him to have earned his due.

Its only the hater's who feel otherwise .......... and in the end, do they really count????
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Dec 17 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]370938[/snapback]
Maybe!

But then again, the sports writers and columnists, boxing experts, past greats of the sport, and many others who have been involved with boxing all their lives also believe him to have earned his due.

Its only the hater's who feel otherwise .......... and in the end, do they really count????


Yes they do because they constitute 90% of Floyd's audience. The man has no fans.
streetlion1
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Dec 17 2007, 09:55 AM) [snapback]370926[/snapback]
Now he's "Defenseless Hatton". laugh.gif Before the fight, he was the chosen one to give mayweather hell here on earth.

Now he's "Old DLH" laugh.gif Before the fight, he was the one to finally beat mayweather.

What will it be when Floyd beats Cotto????? Inexperience, didn't get enough sleep before the fight, blinded by the blood running in his eyes.

Also, are you in anyway related to the Official Boxer's rating system or something? At what point in time did your opinion and or thoughts outweight the experts in the profession. laugh.gif

Your flawed logic & rational have given me the best laugh of the day ............ Thanks laugh.gif

oh your welcome! What I see obviously isnt what alot of other people do. I knew Hatton would be easy. everyone knows that DLH isnt what he used to be, yet still very talented I didnt expect him to win. My opinion is as a fan. I'll argue the point all day that he is over-rated until he fights somebody! By the way He wouldnt beat Cotto anyway! your arguement has ground, but hardly logical! glad I could put a smile on ur face!
xxxxxx
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Dec 17 2007, 12:32 PM) [snapback]370938[/snapback]
Maybe!

But then again, the sports writers and columnists, boxing experts, past greats of the sport, and many others who have been involved with boxing all their lives also believe him to have earned his due.

Its only the hater's who feel otherwise .......... and in the end, do they really count????



Dam, that girl in your sig is very nice on the eyes.haha
JD
Well...what is the criteria here?

Is it skills, ability and talent? Is it resume?

Is it a combination?
dbdbdb
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Dec 17 2007, 11:52 AM) [snapback]370945[/snapback]
oh your welcome! What I see obviously isnt what alot of other people do. I knew Hatton would be easy. everyone knows that DLH isnt what he used to be, yet still very talented I didnt expect him to win. My opinion is as a fan. I'll argue the point all day that he is over-rated until he fights somebody! By the way He wouldnt beat Cotto anyway! your arguement has ground, but hardly logical! glad I could put a smile on ur face!


I'll approach this from your perspective and see where it goes.

"over-rated until he fights somebody" Who would you classify as somebody???? Cotto ???? I'm going to find the article, where Arum himself stated that he did not want Cotto to fight floyd, because of how good floyd is.

Searching .......

QUOTE(JD @ Dec 17 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]370947[/snapback]
Well...what is the criteria here?

Is it skills, ability and talent? Is it resume?

Is it a combination?


A very good question. What combination would validate a fighter as NOT over-rated.
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