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iron_mike
I mean @ 140 obvioulsy. Tszyu was a big strong 140. Please don't bring up Hatton cause he wrestled while Tszyu boxed. Could Kostya cut off the ring and pound Floyd's ribs? Or is Floyd too fast?

Dont know how to make a poll, sorry
BigG
I think Kostya would give Floyd a pretty good tough fight... I just think Mayweather is too fast, smart, and good defensively in the end.
iron_mike
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 28 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]372628[/snapback]
I think Kostya would give Floyd a pretty good tough fight... I just think Mayweather is too fast, smart, and good defensively in the end.


True, but Kostya cuts off the ring really well. Great chin as well, even though Floyd's not a huge puncher.
Mean Mister Mustard
This is a good indication of how boxers are perceived after a big performance. I remember in the end of 2004 when Mayweather had wasted away 2003 and 2004 while Tzyu had just knocked out his number one contender in 3 rounds. Everyone in the media and in the message boards was saying that Tszyu was unbeatable and that he even excelled against slick boxers because that way he could time them with his right hand. I agree.

But it's just intereating to see that now PBF is the unbeatable guy and no one will come close to beating him. In a year maybe he loses 2 in a row and then is considered a bum. You never know.
AussieLad
I think it really comes down to which tszyu where talking about.

A young tszyu had deceptive speed to go with the skill and power, but as he got older his timing seemed to improve. It ended up being a bit like a laser. I'm not sure which one i would use

Tszyu is my all time favorite fighter, because he was a destroyer in the ring and a real classy guy out of it. But as much as i hate to say it, floyd would take a decision win, only with a few scary moments in there when kos connected

How do you think PBF would have done against pryor or a prime chavez?

BigG
I think the guy that would've beaten Floyd was Hearns.
iron_mike
QUOTE(AussieLad @ Dec 28 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]372638[/snapback]
I think it really comes down to which tszyu where talking about.

A young tszyu had deceptive speed to go with the skill and power, but as he got older his timing seemed to improve. It ended up being a bit like a laser. I'm not sure which one i would use

Tszyu is my all time favorite fighter, because he was a destroyer in the ring and a real classy guy out of it. But as much as i hate to say it, floyd would take a decision win, only with a few scary moments in there when kos connected

How do you think PBF would have done against pryor or a prime chavez?


Tszyu is my all time fave as well with Mike a very close second. I'm talking prime Tszyu when he was k.o.ing everyone, especially after the Phillips loss. That's why I brought this up. That right hand was like a guided missle and could Floyd have avoided it?
Southeastpaw
This was one of the fights that I really wanted to see but never happened. Floyd just made a bus stop and transfer @ 140 and that was it. I REALLY wanted to see this fight. I now think that Floyd probaby would have stopped Tszyu late, but at that time I thought that Tszyu would have given Mayweather all he could handle plus some.
AussieLad
I doubt floyd would have stopped tszyu, he doesnt have the power of a phillips or the grinding relentless pace of hatton.

I wouldnt have thought pbf could have stopped ricky, and was proven wrong. But i believe that was more a matter of styles. Ricky was charging out, chin exposed, and got caught flush. Sort of like donaire KOing darchinyan. An otherwise solid chin getting clocked because it was exposed.
Tszyu vs Floyd would have been fought at a slower pace, as tsyu would apply a different kind of pressure to hatton. Stalking rather than charging, he wouldnt have been as exposed
BigG
Also would've loved to seehow Floyd did against a monster like Norris at 154.
Southeastpaw
Tszyu started making the mistake some powerful boxers end up making. He ended up depending more on his power than his skill. I remember seeing a link that someone brought up of Tszyu/Forrest in the amateurs. That Tszyu looked better than almost any fight I had seen Tszyu in in the pros bar the 2nd Mitchell fight. I never knew how much skill he had. But IF we are talkin about the Tzsyu that fought @ 140 at the time Mayweather was in that weightclass, I will take Mayweather all day. Even before that really as well.

Think of Tszyu in the ring with Hurtado, Judah, even Leija. Kostya was there to be hit. Judah completely starched Kostya in that first round. Hurtado was also landing very effectively early as was Leija. But Kostya would end up catching them later. They could not handle the pressure and folded. I don't see this as the case with Mayweather when he was coming up through 140. Floyd was just moving up having dealt with the pressure of Castillo. Castillo was a major test for Mayweather, and while some say that Mayweather was beaten in their first meeting, he rematched immediately and won convincingly the second time showing that he had trained to deal with pressure. Kostya had very good range, but he would laso leave himself WIDE open. I think that Mayweather would be successful throughout the fight with Kostya. Potshotting most of the early rounds to a comfortable lead, then becoming more and more precise down the home stretch with an ending ala Phillips.

AT the time Mayweather was coming up through 140, Kostya was pretty inactive.
iron_mike
Well with all the shoulder injuries, that's to be expected. My top 4 140 lb (no particular order) Kostya, Duran, Chavez, Pryor. By the way Tszyu vs Forrest in amateurs was amazing! Terrible Terry is another one of my faves
and the NEW
Tszyu back in his younger days, would have been HELL for Mayweather! So much power, speed, aggression! He would not take a backwards step and no way Mayweather is bombing him out!

WOW, would have LOVE to see this matchup!

I will take Mayweather by decision, but I think he would be rocked severely in the process!
BrutalBodyShots
Mayweather by decision... Too much speed + accuracy + defense. I don't think Tszyu would ever land the money right hand perfectly flush the entire night. I think Mayweather takes it 7-5 or 8-4.

iron_mike
??? Kostya's right hand was patriot missile guided! PBF @ 140 could not deal with prime Tszyu. Maybe I'm biased, but I've seen almost all his fights and he was p4p in his day. After a year plus layoff, he RAPED lil big man. Tszyu forever!
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 29 2007, 04:55 AM) [snapback]372667[/snapback]
Judah completely starched Kostya in that first round.


What are you smoking? Judah starched KT? More like he got him with a decent uppercuat & that was his whole contribution to that fight. Tszyu controlled every second of that fight even when he was retreating he was the one leading Judah & then the time came & Judah did his shuffle.

As for Tszyu vs PBF I would have to take Tszyu in a prime vs prime situation. Too smart & powerful IMO. PBF would win rounds no doubt but Tszyu was just too smart & crafty + his punches were like guided missiles when he was on his A game.

A great fight but one Tszyu wins IMO.
kidbazooka1
Tszyu shines agianst boxers I think in his prime he would have made Floyd do the chicken dance ala Judah.
Ready4War
Actually Kosty admitted to being "Stunned" by that shot and the right-hook/str8 left combo later in the round on an interview a while back. PBF would decision Kostya or stop him late due to his great accuracy.
BigG
Well, Tszyu was a smart boxer but Floyd is a more intelligent fighter than he is..with more speed and skills. I think Kostya has a great right hand..I just dont see him landing it clean and crisp against Mayweather who would probably just beat him with his jab, his OWN accurate, quick, lead right hand, and quickness.

Tszyu definitely gives Mayweather a harder fight than Ricky did IMO.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 29 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]372685[/snapback]
What are you smoking? Judah starched KT? More like he got him with a decent uppercuat & that was his whole contribution to that fight. Tszyu controlled every second of that fight even when he was retreating he was the one leading Judah & then the time came & Judah did his shuffle.

As for Tszyu vs PBF I would have to take Tszyu in a prime vs prime situation. Too smart & powerful IMO. PBF would win rounds no doubt but Tszyu was just too smart & crafty + his punches were like guided missiles when he was on his A game.

A great fight but one Tszyu wins IMO.

Yeah, Judah owned that first round. Tell me, what did Kostya do in that first round?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4M1Y-sQidIU
iron_mike
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 29 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]372718[/snapback]
Yeah, Judah owned that first round. Tell me, what did Kostya do in that first round?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4M1Y-sQidIU


1st round clearly to Zab. Fast, hard to reach, clean uppercut, Tszyu just trying to keep up and figure him out. Which he did at the end of the 2nd. Colonel Sanders/Judah with all his 11 secret herbs and spices got KTFO!
BigG
You know, I still think Nady shouldn't have stopped it after Judah fell for a 2nd time....he should've at least let Zab try to beat the count and the round was over anyway.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(iron_mike @ Dec 29 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]372720[/snapback]
1st round clearly to Zab. Fast, hard to reach, clean uppercut, Tszyu just trying to keep up and figure him out. Which he did at the end of the 2nd. Colonel Sanders/Judah with all his 11 secret herbs and spices got KTFO!

lol. I know. I have no idea what Zab was thinkin backin up with his hands down for. That KO should be inducted into the HOF. lol

BTW, I was a Tszyu fan, but a realistic one. I knew all the inactivity before the Hatton fight was going to hurt him badly. Although, if Hatton wasn't mauling, Hatton may indeed have been beaten that night.
iron_mike
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 29 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]372724[/snapback]
You know, I still think Nady shouldn't have stopped it after Judah fell for a 2nd time....he should've at least let Zab try to beat the count and the round was over anyway.


Isn't the rule you hit the floor, you get back up, you hit the floor again, that's automatic loss?

BTW, I was a Tszyu fan, but a realistic one. I knew all the inactivity before the Hatton fight was going to hurt him badly. Although, if Hatton wasn't mauling, Hatton may indeed have been beaten that night.

Tszyu was a tough m.f. that night, but when you have a mini bulldog mauling you and ball-target practicing all night, thats gonna take it's toll. No respect lost for Tszyu not coming out for the 12th. Still think Ricky fought DIRTY. It's so funny how all the Brits bitch that Cortez wasn't fair when he wouldn't let Ricky embrace/hug/grapple/UFC Floyd, as if it's a normal part of boxing.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 29 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]372724[/snapback]
You know, I still think Nady shouldn't have stopped it after Judah fell for a 2nd time....he should've at least let Zab try to beat the count and the round was over anyway.

Considering that the round was over, I would have liked to see it go on as well. But after what I know of Zab now, I think that it was inevitable anyhow. This was a rematch I wanted to see for years but like I said, seeing how Judah's mental state was/is, I believe he would have gotten stopped again by Tszyu. But that first round definitely showed that Zab had the tools to beat Kostya. But he just fades and acts a fool. He is the opposite of Mayweather. Judah starts out strong and then takes a plung, whereas Floyd will start out sharp and only get sharper. This is why I would pick Floyd over Kostya. Floyd would not do the stupid things, like backing up with his hands down or mentally break down, like Zab did.
AussieLad
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 29 2007, 06:13 PM) [snapback]372726[/snapback]
BTW, I was a Tszyu fan, but a realistic one. I knew all the inactivity before the Hatton fight was going to hurt him badly. Although, if Hatton wasn't mauling, Hatton may indeed have been beaten that night.


I think tszyu did land a really good body shot at the end of the first round with about 20 seconds to go, which started off zabs back pedalling. But it was clearly a dominant round for judah

On the tszyu forum before the hatton match, he had a poll going as to who should be his next opponment. I personally felt a win over hatton didnt do much for his legacy as he was undisputed at the time, i was arguing for a move up to welter to fight unified champ cory spinks. I felt he would have beaten cory, and ended up being undisputed in 2 divisions, a significant accomplishment. A perfect time for retirement

I also felt hatton was the tougher fight with his style, but i wasnt too worried. Little did i reliaze tszyus greatest mistake would be letting his opponents promoter stack as many factors into the home fighters advantage. Tszyu and his team have only themselves to blame for not insisting on a nuetral ref.
Michigan Assassin
When is this fight to have taken place: now or 3 to4 years ago?

I feel prime for prime Tszyu would have given trouble to Floyd, but FMj is still too slick for him. Kosta would take some early rounds but FMj would adjust and when a close UD.

If the fight took place now I'd see the fight playing out in a similar fashion except that Tszyu would when a few less rouna and the UD would be a little wider.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Dec 29 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]372718[/snapback]
Yeah, Judah owned that first round. Tell me, what did Kostya do in that first round?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4M1Y-sQidIU



Judah did win the first round no doubt but IMO Tszyu was in control of the fight & getting his measurement & timing right, which he obviously did.

QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 29 2007, 06:13 PM) [snapback]372724[/snapback]
You know, I still think Nady shouldn't have stopped it after Judah fell for a 2nd time....he should've at least let Zab try to beat the count and the round was over anyway.



C'mon G we been through this enough times. In a unification bout there is no mandatory 8 count. Therefore when you get up you MUST be ready to fight not in 5 or 8 seconds but the moment you get up. Judah was stupid & his stupidity cost me a lot of money as I had a KT KO3 with good money riding on it.
and the NEW
I originally thought the stoppage was too premature and Tszyu was starched in the first round.

But after rewatching it numerious times, the stoppage was fair and Judah barely touched Tszyu in first round. Despite an uppercut that surprised Tszyu, but far from hurt him!

Tszyu in his wildman days would give Mayweather a tough fight, no doubt! If Tszyu took a more measured approach, he would be pot shotted, sad to say!
STEVENSKI
New did you think that Tszyu was steering Judah around the ring in the first round or Judah was dictating terms?
and the NEW
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 30 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]372871[/snapback]
New did you think that Tszyu was steering Judah around the ring in the first round or Judah was dictating terms?


Neither really.

I thought Judah just looked way too fast for Tszyu at that stage, and Tszyu knew he had to pressure to get in, so he could throw from short distances and try and punch through him (in order to generate power). Judahs back and forward movement is what got him, he doesnt move laterally well. Though, I think it was just a very unusual, feeling out round. None had begun to establish themselves yet.

I know Judah himself felt he was being way overanxious and using too much energy early, hence why he slowed up in the second round, trying to pace himself. He said that much himself.

I do though, think the outcome was a foregone conclusion. With the power of Tszyu, and the pressure he had, no way was Judah stopping him and no way was Judah lasting 12 rounds. That fight was finishing with the same outcome, Judah loosing, 10 times out of 10!

Can you imagine Judah taking those bombs Gonzalez did? That is what he was heading for had he lasted 8 rounds! Tszyu would have walked straight through him! He was an absolute beast in his prime, only power and relentless punch output was going to stop Tszyu! His head was a coconut, one punch was never going to end him!
BigG
Judah can match Floyd's physical talent ANY DAY. In fact, I don't think there is a better combination of speed and power in boxing.

But Juda cant match Floyd in ring smarts, discipline, and skill and that is why Floyd beats Tszyu.
and the NEW
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 30 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]372875[/snapback]
Judah can match Floyd's physical talent ANY DAY. In fact, I don't think there is a better combination of speed and power in boxing.

But Juda cant match Floyd in ring smarts, discipline, and skill and that is why Floyd beats Tszyu.


Judah can match Floyd in athletacism, speed and power (of which are probably better than Floyd).

Physical talent, I include vision, timing. These things cant be taught like the way Floyd does them, his physical talent is far superior to Judah!
caneman
QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 29 2007, 12:33 AM) [snapback]372675[/snapback]
Tszyu back in his younger days, would have been HELL for Mayweather! So much power, speed, aggression! He would not take a backwards step and no way Mayweather is bombing him out!

WOW, would have LOVE to see this matchup!

I will take Mayweather by decision, but I think he would be rocked severely in the process!



i think PBF would have got the decision but i know tszyu would have landed the right hand & i would have loved to see how PBF handled it...chop chop rocked PBF so what do you think would happen if he landed it?
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(and the NEW @ Dec 30 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]372874[/snapback]
Can you imagine Judah taking those bombs Gonzalez did? That is what he was heading for had he lasted 8 rounds! Tszyu would have walked straight through him! He was an absolute beast in his prime, only power and relentless punch output was going to stop Tszyu! His head was a coconut, one punch was never going to end him!


That is my favourite Tszyu fight & I think that was Tszyu's best performance by a country mile.
AussieLad
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jan 1 2008, 10:06 AM) [snapback]373100[/snapback]
That is my favourite Tszyu fight & I think that was Tszyu's best performance by a country mile.


That round where gonzalez headbutts tszyu, kos looks at the ref as if in disbelief, then turns round and smashes gonzalez with two hard shots... beeeautiful
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Dec 30 2007, 06:44 AM) [snapback]372875[/snapback]
Judah can match Floyd's physical talent ANY DAY. In fact, I don't think there is a better combination of speed and power in boxing.

But Juda cant match Floyd in ring smarts, discipline, and skill and that is why Floyd beats Tszyu.


George I think you are confusing physical "talent" with physical "ability."

Judah may have the ABILITY of Floyd in terms of speed, but his timing, accuracy and ability to counter IMO take the back seat to Floyd's.

Therefore IMO Mayweather's talent exceeds Judah's, while Judah has the ABILITY to land lightning fast hard shots.

BigG
QUOTE
Judah may have the ABILITY of Floyd in terms of speed, but his timing, accuracy and ability to counter


I always looked at those things as ring skills and ring smarts more then anything.

either way, I think Judah was blessed with more speed than anyone else in boxing today..plus he's got a monster left hand to boot. He just cant handle pressure all the well.
and the NEW
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jan 1 2008, 10:06 AM) [snapback]373100[/snapback]
That is my favourite Tszyu fight & I think that was Tszyu's best performance by a country mile.


I agree.

Reminded me of the Tito V Mayo blowout!
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