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Jack 1000
I have been involved with boxing for over 30 years. I can not figure out the issues with the WBC World Lightweight Title.

How did David Diaz manage to beat Erik Morales for the WBC Lightweight title? I am not disputing that fight's call, but why was it a title fight? Cassamayor was the WBC title holder of the lightweight division, also Ring Magazine had him listed. Was Cassamayor stripped and Morales-Diaz for the interim title? Or was Casamayor-Santa Cruz for the interim lightweight title? In the beginning, why didn't Casamayor just fight David Diaz?

The only thing I know in all of this is that Eric Morales got a title fight against David Diaz that never should have happened!

Jack
AussieLad
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Dec 31 2007, 10:38 PM) [snapback]373029[/snapback]
I have been involved with boxing for over 30 years. I can not figure out the issues with the WBC World Lightweight Title.

How did David Diaz manage to beat Erik Morales for the WBC Lightweight title? I am not disputing that fight's call, but why was it a title fight? Cassamayor was the WBC title holder of the lightweight division, also Ring Magazine had him listed. Was Cassamayor stripped and Morales-Diaz for the interim title? Or was Casamayor-Santa Cruz for the interim lightweight title? In the beginning, why didn't Casamayor just fight David Diaz?

The only thing I know in all of this is that Eric Morales got a title fight against David Diaz that never should have happened!

Jack


Who knows? This division is a bit messed up at the moment

I am still trying to figure out why Juan Diaz vs Katsidis went to a purse bid, when Juans camp knew they couldnt fight under an golden boy promotion because they were contractually obligated under don king...? Why bother going to purse bid and wasting everyones time, they shouldve just said Don King would prefer me to get stripped of a title, who needs titles anyway...?
kidbazooka1
Once the Baby Bull takes all the titles there will be no more confusion.
AussieLad
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 1 2008, 02:41 AM) [snapback]373056[/snapback]
Agreed. Juan Diaz looks to be a cut above the rest at 135. That's his division. Katsidis-Diaz should be entertaining and could be one of the fights of the year, but I think Diaz is too much. He is more skillful and will win, but it should be good. I don't see Diaz losing to anybody at 135.



Your talking like the fight is still on? Maybe ive missed something, but i thought it was off and katsidis was pressuring for the title to relinquished as he is the mandatory. Katsidis is fighting cassamayor next as far as i knew
AussieLad
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 1 2008, 03:04 AM) [snapback]373061[/snapback]
Really? I thought it was him and Diaz. I must have missed it when they said the fight is off. So it's Casamayor now?


Oscar won the purse bid, and because some clause in diaz's contract with king prevents him from fighting under another promoter. Its b.s
Mister Saint Laurent
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Dec 31 2007, 05:38 PM) [snapback]373029[/snapback]
How did David Diaz manage to beat Erik Morales for the WBC Lightweight title? I am not disputing that fight's call, but why was it a title fight? Cassamayor was the WBC title holder of the lightweight division, also Ring Magazine had him listed. Was Cassamayor stripped and Morales-Diaz for the interim title? Or was Casamayor-Santa Cruz for the interim lightweight title? In the beginning, why didn't Casamayor just fight David Diaz?


in may of 2006, the WBC allowed the champion of their north american affiliate (jose armando santa cruz) to fight the champion of their asian affiliate (chikashi inada) for the interim title @ lightweight. i believe this was shortly after the third bout between corrales and castillo was cancelled. the WBC mandatory @ lightweight was long overdue as nobody had made a mandatory defense in the division since mayweather's defense against castillo in 2002. in may of 2006, i believe castillo was actually ranked #1 @ lightweight by the WBC, but perhaps a promoter complained about all the non-sense taking place (two failed weigh-ins in a row, lack of mandatory defenses, etc.) and was able to get an interim title bout approved.

anyway, rather than fight santa cruz, corrales wanted a more marketable fight with casamayor and the WBC gave him the okay. so, santa cruz defended his interim title (and lost) against david diaz. casamayor beat corrales and was now obligated to fight diaz.

around this time, morales lost his third fight against pacquiao. arum's cash cow seemingly had nothing marketable left to do, but arum came up with the idea of morales maybe returning to try to win the WBC title @ 135 to become the first mexican to win a world title in four divisions (morales, barrera, and chavez held titles in 3 divisions). with arum controlling diaz, it would be an easy match to make. now all he needed was the WBC to remove the "interim" tag from diaz's title.

sure enough, removing the interim tag is exactly what the WBC did before long . . .

casamayor was negotiating for a rematch with acelino freitas to re-unify the WBC & WBO titles (corrales had been stripped by the WBO and freitas picked the title up by defeating zahir raheem). the WBC said that since casamayor was negotiating to fight freitas and not diaz that he clearly did not intend to honor his mandatory and was stripped of the title, giving diaz full recognition as WBC champion in the division.

with casamayor no longer holding a title, there was nothing for him to unify, and HBO made it clear they were not interested in the fight anymore. freitas fought juan diaz instead to unify the WBO & WBA titles and HBO televised.

casamayor now had no fight and no belt.

i'm sure he was pissed.

pissed enough to threaten to sue.

a compromise was worked out and to avoid a lawsuit, casamayor was awarded the interim championship. of course, this allowed morales to fight diaz for the "real" title, something arum had been talking about many months before, way before casamayor had ever been stripped.

very convenient . . .

diaz beats morales and casamayor gets a gift against santa cruz.

no sign of them fighting each other and the fun never stops because the WBC orders an immediate rematch between casamyor and santa cruz due to the terrible decision.

perhaps casamayor is just going to give up his interim title and fight katsidis for what will become the full WBO title when juan gets stripped?

what an amazingly confusing and hilarious saga . . .
Jack 1000
QUOTE(AussieLad @ Dec 31 2007, 09:17 PM) [snapback]373066[/snapback]
Oscar won the purse bid, and because some clause in diaz's contract with king prevents him from fighting under another promoter. Its b.s


I did hear that Diaz's contract with King expires on April 1st. So assuming that he does not renew, he will than become a free agent and his options will become clearer.

Jack
Jack 1000
QUOTE(Mister Saint Laurent @ Dec 31 2007, 10:11 PM) [snapback]373069[/snapback]
in may of 2006, the WBC allowed the champion of their north american affiliate (jose armando santa cruz) to fight the champion of their asian affiliate (chikashi inada) for the interim title @ lightweight. i believe this was shortly after the third bout between corrales and castillo was cancelled. the WBC mandatory @ lightweight was long overdue as nobody had made a mandatory defense in the division since mayweather's defense against castillo in 2002. in may of 2006, i believe castillo was actually ranked #1 @ lightweight by the WBC, but perhaps a promoter complained about all the non-sense taking place (two failed weigh-ins in a row, lack of mandatory defenses, etc.) and was able to get an interim title bout approved.

anyway, rather than fight santa cruz, corrales wanted a more marketable fight with casamayor and the WBC gave him the okay. so, santa cruz defended his interim title (and lost) against david diaz. casamayor beat corrales and was now obligated to fight diaz.

around this time, morales lost his third fight against pacquiao. arum's cash cow seemingly had nothing marketable left to do, but arum came up with the idea of morales maybe returning to try to win the WBC title @ 135 to become the first mexican to win a world title in four divisions (morales, barrera, and chavez held titles in 3 divisions). with arum controlling diaz, it would be an easy match to make. now all he needed was the WBC to remove the "interim" tag from diaz's title.

sure enough, removing the interim tag is exactly what the WBC did before long . . .

casamayor was negotiating for a rematch with acelino freitas to re-unify the WBC & WBO titles (corrales had been stripped by the WBO and freitas picked the title up by defeating zahir raheem). the WBC said that since casamayor was negotiating to fight freitas and not diaz that he clearly did not intend to honor his mandatory and was stripped of the title, giving diaz full recognition as WBC champion in the division.

with casamayor no longer holding a title, there was nothing for him to unify, and HBO made it clear they were not interested in the fight anymore. freitas fought juan diaz instead to unify the WBO & WBA titles and HBO televised.

casamayor now had no fight and no belt.

i'm sure he was pissed.

pissed enough to threaten to sue.

a compromise was worked out and to avoid a lawsuit, casamayor was awarded the interim championship. of course, this allowed morales to fight diaz for the "real" title, something arum had been talking about many months before, way before casamayor had ever been stripped.

very convenient . . .

diaz beats morales and casamayor gets a gift against santa cruz.

no sign of them fighting each other and the fun never stops because the WBC orders an immediate rematch between casamyor and santa cruz due to the terrible decision.

perhaps casamayor is just going to give up his interim title and fight katsidis for what will become the full WBO title when juan gets stripped?

what an amazingly confusing and hilarious saga . . .


Thanks for the clarification! Although you all will have to read this three times because it still is confusing! Anyone looking to "make a deal" for the WBC Lightweight Title might be um......."Too confused to refuse!" It sounds to put matters into perspective that because Casamayor was given one of the worst decisions in recent memory that no one considers him champion now. However, Santa Cruz is a tough kid, but has limited marketability (although his stock goes up after his "win" over Casamayor.) I think that Juan Diaz should be the universally recognized world lightweight champion. If Katsidias-Casamyor happens, does anyone see this as anything but a beat down of an old Casamayor? The judges I really don't think will screw Katsidis, because I honestly don't think it will get to the cards. (I will predict unofficially a 9th round TKO win by Katsidis, if Katsidis-Casamayor happens.)

Casamayor really should no longer be champion of anything. He is getting too old to be competitive.

Jack
Elijah
"WBA/IBF/WBO lightweight champion Juan Diaz has signed his contract to fight IBF mandatory Nate Campbell in Cancun, Mexico on March 8th. "Nate Campbell is a worthy opponent who qualifies for the mandatory #1 position by winning two elimination fights," said Diaz' manager Willie Savannah. "Diaz realizes that this is going to be a tough fight as they all are and is in serious preparation for March 8th. Diaz had previously signed to fight WBO mandatory Michael Katsidis, scheduled for February 9th in Houston, Texas. This crowd-pleasing fight was squashed by Don King, but since both fighters are promoted by King in this fight, hopefully it will take place. Now that Katsidis have moved onto fight Joel Casamoyer March 22nd, hopefully for the sake of boxing, the winners could meet next."


Both fights should be entertaining and help clean up the division.
AussieLad
The truth is too convoluted even for a daytime soap opera... dntknw.gif

I still think juan should be stripped. No contractual hokey pokey should be a legit reason for not facing an overdue mandatory. He's unified, he can afford to lose the lesser wbo title

This is one of the reasons boxing remains an arcane pass-time. It really needs an enforceable ladder ranking system for scheduling matches, and no options to do these stupid little shift'n'shuffles

Just for the record, i do think juan is the best lightweight right now and would most likely defeat katsidis, but watching this dribble unfold is insulting to the sport and the people who love it
Jack 1000
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 1 2008, 05:21 AM) [snapback]373108[/snapback]
But if what was said is true, it's not Diaz who is to blame. He isn't getting out of a fight with Katsidis on purpose, it's because he has some shitty stipulation in his contract with King that is holding him back, no?


Yes, Diaz to my knowledge is under contract to King until April 1st.

Jack
AussieLad
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 1 2008, 11:21 AM) [snapback]373108[/snapback]
But if what was said is true, it's not Diaz who is to blame. He isn't getting out of a fight with Katsidis on purpose, it's because he has some shitty stipulation in his contract with King that is holding him back, no?


He signed the contract? He shares the blame

I dont think diaz is scared of rock, he is trying to fry bigger fish. But that doesnt change the fact that a contract dispute is not a good enough reason to avoid his mandatory. Its a sorry state of affairs for diaz, but he should still be stripped

Whats the next legit excuse? my mum wont let me, look she wrote me a note
BigG
Campbell in recent bouts has looked pretty good. I say he will put up a very good effort and quite possibly stun Diaz a few times. But Diaz will prevail with pressure. I dont think this is an easy fight for Diaz. It's a tough title defense. Campbell was an idiot against Peden that one time but he has improved since then.
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