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Jack 1000
This thread is for all comments and postfight reactions to the Welterweight Title Fight, Williams vs. Quintana. LIVE CALL BEGINS AT 8:45 CST on HBO. SPOILERS MAY BE INDICATED BELOW AROUND 9 PM CST

Jack

Administrator
Jack 1000
I have Williams TKO 10 after a slow start.

Jack
The Original MrFactor
I think Williams wins by about a 9th round TKO. Quintana will quit on his stool...
salvador
Williams looks so calm, almost too calm.
Titlebelt
I have Williams in 8.
Romulus9
Paul is getting hit WAY too much.

One thing that will be to his advantage, if he gets through the 7th or 8th round, is Quintana's arms will get tired thanks to punching UP the entire time. Gravity tends to do that.

Still... getting hit way too much. He's getting hit more tonight than he did against Margarito.
salvador
THe good news for Paul is that he's gonna have an easier time finding opponents after this fight.
stateofthegame
I hope Quintana wins because I am sick and tired of all the Paul Williams talk. I have never thought that Williams was this great, feared fighter. I have seen him fight several times and have not been impressed yet.
stateofthegame
I think Quintana won the fight. I did not score it, but I think Lederman is off in this one.
gods son
good result!!
big up quintana!!!!
The Original MrFactor
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...



164 lbs coming in and fighting a good southpaw took PW's title...

Excellent fight... Very fun to watch... Kudos to Quintana
Romulus9
I don't see 116-112. 8-4 is a little too wide.

7-5 either way would have been fine. Several VERY close, subjective rounds.
BigG
Damn! Quintana won it!
gods son
damn Mohawk!!!!

Lil-lightsout
FUCKING HILARIOUS!!! Thank-you Carlos Quintana. I can not wait to hear from all the many guys on Pauls jock. People want to hype fighters up so much without them have really any true tests. He beat one decent fighter(Margarito), and all the sudden he can beat Cotto, Mosley, and some guys actually thought Mayweather. Paul is OK, but he was not near as good as people made him out to be. Also, he came in the ring tonight at 164lbs., he was a freaking supermiddleweight!!! That is bullshit, he should move up to jr. middleweight next. It has been beyond frustrating listening to all these people hype this guy up without even proven himself, thanks again Carlos Quintana for showing us how limited PW really is.
BigG
I guess this also shows us that Cotto-Floyd needs to happen. Cotto made Quintana quit after 5 and Carlos just beat the hottest thing at 147 in P-Will.

Williams is a good fighter but not yet on the elite level...lets see what he does after this. He's still really young.
D-MARV

You guys still think P Will will beat Floyd?

Im worried about PWill, I saw a two very dangerous characteristics in him tonight. No Defense and a stubborn chin! He is taking too many shots and after tonight i have to worry about his health. I know it's early in his career but tonight was a scary too watch. I hope PWill moves up to light middleweight. Carlos really impressed me tonight. What does this say about Cotto! Cotto totally destroyed the guy who Punished "The Punisher". Also what does this say about Margarito?
hardhead
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Feb 10 2008, 04:29 AM) [snapback]377894[/snapback]
FUCKING HILARIOUS!!! Thank-you Carlos Quintana. I can not wait to hear from all many guys on Pauls jock. People want to hype fighters up so much without them have really any true tests. He beat one decent fighter(Margarito), and all the sudden he can beat Cotto, Mosley, and some guys actually thought Mayweather. Paul is OK, but he was not near as good as people made him out to be. Also, he came in the ring tonight at 164lbs., he was a freaking supermiddleweight!!! That is bullshit, he should move up to jr. middleweight next. It has been beyond frustrating listening to all these people hype this guy up without even proven himself, thanks again Carlos Quintana for showing us how limited PW really is.



I agree that people were very high on him, myself included, and some were saying he could beat Mayweather(I hadn't gone that far) but to say he hasn't had a true test?? Is Margarito not a "true" test?? He's one of the top 5 fighters in the division and at the time Williams beat him he was higher then that. He showed a lot of heart and determination deserved to win that title from Margarito. That fight would've been a test to any other fighter.

Hats off to Quintana though he fought an excellent fight and deserved that title tonight..He got tired in those middle rounds but he came on in rounds 10 and 11 to really answer Williams and solidify the decision..

I agree with George, Williams is not elite obviously this fight exposed his defensive holes but he's one of the youngest fighters in the division I certainly don't think he needs to hang his head for very long, I believe he can improve as a fighter and come back from this loss.
Lil-lightsout
[quote name='hardhead' date='Feb 9 2008, 11:44 PM' post='377901']
I agree that people were very high on him, myself included, and some were saying he could beat Mayweather(I hadn't gone that far) but to say he hasn't had a true test?? Is Margarito not a "true" test?? He's one of the top 5 fighters in the division and at the time Williams beat him he was higher then that. He showed a lot of heart and determination deserved to win that title from Margarito. That fight would've been a test to any other fighter.

Ok, you are right. I should have said he had one true test, but even in that fight it was a very close fight. I personally have never been impressed with Margarito too much to begin with, but PW did beat him to win the title.
BigG
Yeah, Paul certainly beat Margarito clearly by banking most of the early-middle rounds and aving a strong 12th.
hardhead
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Feb 10 2008, 04:50 AM) [snapback]377903[/snapback]
QUOTE(hardhead @ Feb 9 2008, 11:44 PM) [snapback]377901[/snapback]

I agree that people were very high on him, myself included, and some were saying he could beat Mayweather(I hadn't gone that far) but to say he hasn't had a true test?? Is Margarito not a "true" test?? He's one of the top 5 fighters in the division and at the time Williams beat him he was higher then that. He showed a lot of heart and determination deserved to win that title from Margarito. That fight would've been a test to any other fighter.

Ok, you are right. I should have said he had one true test, but even in that fight it was a very close fight. I personally have never been impressed with Margarito too much to begin with, but PW did beat him to win the title.



Agreed...
Jack 1000
I had it for Williams at 115-113. Quintana did what he needed to do, but I thought came up a little short. Many rounds were hard to score however, and were open to a lot of interpretation. (look at the 7th for instance among several others.) But this is a good win for Quintana. I have to agree with Max, that this win may show indeed just how good Cotto really is. (Even though I thought he lost a nail-biter to Mosley.)

Jack
Fitz
Wow. I'm kind of surprised. I still have to see the fight, but maybe I was wrong about Mayweather losing to Williams. Like I said, I have to see the fight and could be stylistically wrong, but I didn't expect this.
hardhead
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Feb 10 2008, 05:00 AM) [snapback]377906[/snapback]
I had it for Williams at 115-113. Quintana did what he needed to do, but I thought came up a little short. Many rounds were hard to score however, and were open to a lot of interpretation. (look at the 7th for instance among several others.) But this is a good win for Quintana. I have to agree with Max, that this win may show indeed just how good Cotto really is. (Even though I thought he lost a nail-biter to Mosley.)

Jack



Jack I actually scored it 114-114, with a slight edge(because a couple rounds I gave Williams were very close) to Quintana because he was just landing so many clean blows throughout the fight and was mixing it up in the early rounds with good boxing, movement and clean punching. He also got on track in what it seemed a second wind to win rounds 9-11(with again some big blows that were catching Paul) answering the rally by Williams in rounds 5-8..

This is how I had it:

1. 10-9 Quintana
2. 10-9 Quintana
3. 10-9 Williams(close)
4. 10-9 Quintana
5. 10-9 Williams
6. 10-9 Williams(close)
7. 10-9 Williams
8. 10-9 Williams
9. 10-9 Quintana
10. 10-9 Quintana
11. 10-9 Quintana(close)
12. 10-9 Williams(close but neither guy did much but Williams seemed to land a few more punches while Quintana held most of the time)

I'm disappointed that Williams lost because I think he's a good guy and likable fighter but I'm happy for Quintana, hats off to him, I can't say anything about the guy, he came in as a pretty solid underdog and fought the fight of his life, even though he looked tired in the middle rounds he won some of those championship rounds to make the difference on the judges scorecards...
hardhead
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 10 2008, 05:11 AM) [snapback]377912[/snapback]
Wow. I'm kind of surprised. I still have to see the fight, but maybe I was wrong about Mayweather losing to Williams. Like I said, I have to see the fight and could be stylistically wrong, but I didn't expect this.


It seemed that the concerns about Williams' defense were spot on, Quintana was jumping in catching/countering Williams almost at will, especially in the early rounds(first 4) and in rounds 9-11. The movement of Quintana definitely frustrated Williams also, Williams couldn't really land as much and as clean as he wanted to because Quintana used side to side movement to keep Williams from setting up his shots...

This fight definitely showed the holes in Williams' game and I'm a big fan of Williams(I still am). But he fought hard and never gave up and took some clean shots on the chin and face(cut on both eyes) and never really seemed rattled(of course if that was Cotto in there he probably would've hit the canvas) but to his credit Williams stayed in the fight and never stopped trying to win...


I enjoyed the fight though it was very competitive with good exchanges and styles matchups...
and the NEW
And the Margarito hype train just came speeding off the rails and over the edge of a bridge! Goodbye Margarito!

His out of his depth when he starts challenging Floyd and stalking him around!
hardhead
Margarito will get his chance to bounce back against Cintron, should he knock Cintron out impressively again it'll be nice solid win for him and bring him closer to maybe a fight with Cotto in the fall..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(hardhead @ Feb 10 2008, 12:55 AM) [snapback]377918[/snapback]
It seemed that the concerns about Williams' defense were spot on, Quintana was jumping in catching/countering Williams almost at will, especially in the early rounds(first 4) and in rounds 9-11. The movement of Quintana definitely frustrated Williams also, Williams couldn't really land as much and as clean as he wanted to because Quintana used side to side movement to keep Williams from setting up his shots...

This fight definitely showed the holes in Williams' game and I'm a big fan of Williams(I still am). But he fought hard and never gave up and took some clean shots on the chin and face(cut on both eyes) and never really seemed rattled(of course if that was Cotto in there he probably would've hit the canvas) but to his credit Williams stayed in the fight and never stopped trying to win...
I enjoyed the fight though it was very competitive with good exchanges and styles matchups...

I agree with everything you said, very well put. Now imagine Cotto in there hitting PW with his powerful shots, especially the ones downstairs. PW took some great shots tonight, and showed a pretty good chin in there, I just could not see him standing up to Cotto's punches like he did against Quintana's. I also will give PW credit for constantly trying even though he was being outskilled and he had two cuts to deal with on top of that.
The Original MrFactor
I dont think this fight was as simple as many seem to be making it. Quintana is a good boxer. Quintana's arm length was similar to PW's. Quintana is a southpaw. All bad for Williams apparently. I also think that weight is becoming a factor with Williams. He came in at 164 which is waaay to high for a WW bout. He also didnt seem to have the same vigor in this fight as he did in the Margarito fight.

Call me crazy, but I'd still favor Williams against MOST of the top 10, Mayweather and Cotto included. I think that he was outclassed by a slick southpaw. Sharmba Mitchel was able to tap PW on the chin repeatedly, just didnt have the size. Quintana did have the size and repeatedly landed lead lefts on PW, which ultimately won him the fight...
Sugar Q
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Feb 10 2008, 02:24 AM) [snapback]377936[/snapback]
I dont think this fight was as simple as many seem to be making it. Quintana is a good boxer. Quintana's arm length was similar to PW's. Quintana is a southpaw. All bad for Williams apparently. I also think that weight is becoming a factor with Williams. He came in at 164 which is waaay to high for a WW bout. He also didnt seem to have the same vigor in this fight as he did in the Margarito fight.

Call me crazy, but I'd still favor Williams against MOST of the top 10, Mayweather and Cotto included. I think that he was outclassed by a slick southpaw. Sharmba Mitchel was able to tap PW on the chin repeatedly, just didnt have the size. Quintana did have the size and repeatedly landed lead lefts on PW, which ultimately won him the fight...


Gotta call you crazy on this one dude. Mayweather and Cotto would stop PW. Paul needs to get Manny Steward to train him or he's in deep trouble. He's too tall and long to fight small like that.
kidbazooka1
Im happy that Carlos whooped that ass I was getting tired of all this Williams hype. I think many were underestimating Quintana because of the Cotto blow out but Carlos can f*cking fight he deosn't just run(coughMayweathercough)he can box and trade when needed. Don't fall a sleep on Carlos the guy is definitly a player at 147lb.

I think PW fought like he always does it's just that Quintana was to slick for him he was landing all night long and Williams had no defense for the straight left, great fight and great win for Carlos that puts him back in the welterweigh picture.
Bazooka Limon
I had it 116-112 for Quintana. Great win for Carlos
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Feb 10 2008, 02:59 AM) [snapback]377940[/snapback]
Gotta call you crazy on this one dude. Mayweather and Cotto would stop PW. Paul needs to get Manny Steward to train him or he's in deep trouble. He's too tall and long to fight small like that.



I think most on here would call you crazy. Mayweather has yet to KO a WW. Cotto... Maybe has a shot to KO Williams. Williams has shown that he has a great beard. he took alot of leather in his last 2 fights and seemed almost unphased...
Yucayeke
I thought it was a good close fight. But I did see it going to Quintana.

I was surprised that Williams did not capitalize more on his jab. When it landed it clearly bothered Carlos. Also I was surprised to see just how very effective Carlos was on the inside.

Good scrap, better than most PPV's lately.
pitojenn
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Feb 9 2008, 10:22 PM) [snapback]377881[/snapback]
I think Williams wins by about a 9th round TKO. Quintana will quit on his stool...



Highly unlikely that Quintana would quit on the stool - thumbsdown_anim.gif . And now that it's over and a NEW champion has been crowned in the welter division, I have the answer to what ever happened to Williams rolleyes.gif . He underestimated his opponent as so many have in the past. Quintana's loss to Cotto left a sour taste in the mouths of many, in addition to leaving people thinking that Quintana had nothing for anyone. His fight against Cotto was no different than others. Cotto relentlessly killed the body and finished the head after there was nothing left to move thumbsup_anim.gif . Quintana has nothing to be ashamed of. Williams talked because he thought he could use his reach and height to his advantage, but Quintana's avoidance of Williams' shots was excellent. All night Quintana fought as every short opponent should fight taller, longer reaching counterparts. Excellence in motion, and in my opinion, watching thoughout the entire bout, those comentators missed it. Harold Ledderman, Lenox Lewis and his partners were sooooo wrong. They saw Williams winning 7 or 8 of the 12 rounds, despite the fact that Quintana was pecking at him with staggering blows. I have yet to see another fighter fight in such a way thumbsup_anim.gif . He dipped, swerved, he moved left, he moved right and avoided Williams by confusing the hell out of him. By the 4th round Williams didn't know whether he was in the same fight as this short guy or what. I'm sure Paul Williams wished he didn't get in the ring last night. He wished he'd stayed home or not took the fight at all. His first title defense, after demolishing a man he stated everyone feared but he looked forward to facing [Margarito]. Yet he underestimated the one opponent who could beat him without a doubt. Quintana is back, despite the fact that no one gave him the credit he deserves [not even me], especially after that KO at the hands of Cotto.....
Take that Paul. Next; Margarito, Collazo, Hatton, Cintron dntknw.gif ? As far as going after Cotto a second time, I think he should lay off that one, and Mayweather for as long as its humanly possible....... aggressive.gif
caneman
i had it 115-113 for Quintana. He kept Williams off balance with clean & hard punches...it was a great win for Quintana. Williams showed class in the post fight interview & made no excuses. To be honest, i would like to see a rematch thumbsup_anim.gif
salvador
I'm shocked and disappointed in the fight. Williams showed class after the fight and he showed that he was willing to take a punch to land one, but, as Kellerman pointed out, his lack of an amateur background really was apparant last night.

Quintana was a slick southpaw who was hard to hit and who was able to time Williams from the opening bell - and he was very willing to mix it up. I think that Williams' big mistake was that he focused on the head too much and not enough on just landing shots to the body.

I think it's a great example of how styles make fights, because as much as I think that Quintana would beat Williams again, and as much as I think Williams would beat Margarito again, I actually think that Margarito would take Quintana because of Margarito's power and because of his dedication to the body.

That said, the bottom line is that the ww division just got a lot less interesting.

caneman
QUOTE
That said, the bottom line is that the ww division just got a lot less interesting.


i think it made things more interesting sal....why do you say that bro?
salvador
QUOTE(caneman @ Feb 10 2008, 12:04 PM) [snapback]378001[/snapback]
i think it made things more interesting sal....why do you say that bro?


Because I thought Williams was a very legit threat to Floyd and Cotto. Obviously Floyd would pick him apart. I'm not quite sure that Cotto would, because Cotto's not as slick as Quintana, though I'd still bet on Cotto.

The idea of having the best fighter in the sport in the same division with a guy like Williams with such incredible physical advantages was like the holy grail of boxing to me. Until last night, I thought that if Floyd ever fought Williams that Floyd would have to show what he was made of if he wanted to win. Because I fundamentally assumed that in order for Floyd to beat Williams, Floyd would have to take a lot of shots in order to land his. That's clearly not the case.

Floyd has the most talent of any fighter I've seen and I really want to see him tested before he retires. I suppose Cotto could be that guy, but I doubt it. I really thought Williams was the guy. And I thought that Williams could have made highly entertaining fights with anyone he fought just because of his style.

Quintana was underrated and it's exciting to see a 31 year old guy grit it out and finally get an opportunity for a big payday (I think the winner of Margarito-Cintron will be more than happy to fight him, assuming that Cotto doesn't take the winner of that fight). I just don't think that Quintana has a prayer against Floyd or Cotto, and so the only thing that happened last night was that the number of elite wws just shrank by a quarter or a third, depending on your pov.

That said, Quintana - Judah might be pretty damn entertaining.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(salvador @ Feb 10 2008, 10:52 AM) [snapback]377995[/snapback]
I'm shocked and disappointed in the fight. Williams showed class after the fight and he showed that he was willing to take a punch to land one, but, as Kellerman pointed out, his lack of an amateur background really was apparant last night.

Quintana was a slick southpaw who was hard to hit and who was able to time Williams from the opening bell - and he was very willing to mix it up. I think that Williams' big mistake was that he focused on the head too much and not enough on just landing shots to the body.

I think it's a great example of how styles make fights, because as much as I think that Quintana would beat Williams again, and as much as I think Williams would beat Margarito again, I actually think that Margarito would take Quintana because of Margarito's power and because of his dedication to the body.

That said, the bottom line is that the ww division just got a lot less interesting.



Great post!!! Completely agree!!!
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Man, what an awesome fight. I'm so glad that Quintana won after he was written off against Cotto. He's always been an underrated boxer, and he came to fight tonight. I had the fight 117-111 for Quintana, and just thought he did a really good job in there. I thought rounds 3, 5, and 12 were close, so at worst it was a draw, but I just can't see a Williams victory here. Williams was coming on in rounds 6-8, but he couldn't stop that left hand. This could be an early candidate for upset of the year, with Quintana being an 8-1 underdog. Should be interesting to see what each guy does next.
Kyle
caneman
i hear you but styles make fights while paul's defense is very suspect after last night, it was about what carlos was able to do & cutting paul's output in 1/2. i also think paul came into the fight to heavy, even with the frame that he has...or is 147 just too much for paul?!?!?! i would like to see PBF tested as well & it will be interesting to see if anyone will ever do it! i just really look forward to all the top guys fighting @ 147 & hope they ALL step up & make the fights. hell, it's getting to the point where berto MIGHT be able to beat the top guys as well. to bad we can't box off the top 10 @ 147! rolleyes.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(salvador @ Feb 10 2008, 11:29 AM) [snapback]378005[/snapback]
Because I thought Williams was a very legit threat to Floyd and Cotto. Obviously Floyd would pick him apart. I'm not quite sure that Cotto would, because Cotto's not as slick as Quintana, though I'd still bet on Cotto.

The idea of having the best fighter in the sport in the same division with a guy like Williams with such incredible physical advantages was like the holy grail of boxing to me. Until last night, I thought that if Floyd ever fought Williams that Floyd would have to show what he was made of if he wanted to win. Because I fundamentally assumed that in order for Floyd to beat Williams, Floyd would have to take a lot of shots in order to land his. That's clearly not the case.

Floyd has the most talent of any fighter I've seen and I really want to see him tested before he retires. I suppose Cotto could be that guy, but I doubt it. I really thought Williams was the guy. And I thought that Williams could have made highly entertaining fights with anyone he fought just because of his style.

Quintana was underrated and it's exciting to see a 31 year old guy grit it out and finally get an opportunity for a big payday (I think the winner of Margarito-Cintron will be more than happy to fight him, assuming that Cotto doesn't take the winner of that fight). I just don't think that Quintana has a prayer against Floyd or Cotto, and so the only thing that happened last night was that the number of elite wws just shrank by a quarter or a third, depending on your pov.

That said, Quintana - Judah might be pretty damn entertaining.


Here's where we disagree. I dont think Floyd picks Williams apart. Quintana was a tall rangy boxer. His best asset last nite was that he was a southpaw. Williams was headhunting, but he's so used to fighting orthodox fighters that his jab was always in a place that Quintana's head wasnt. THAT was the difference last nite. If Williams fights a rt handed guy, his jab hits a bit more often because his opponents head would be in the right place. I also think that Williams power is becoming his greatest weakness.

I still think Williams beats most of the guys at WW because most of them are orthodox fighters. Floyd and Cotto's heads would be in the right area for Williams to hit. Floyd would provide movement, but he's also not as big as Quintana. I dont see Mayweather hitting as hard as Quintana either. Cotto would test Williams a bit more because of his power, but I'd expect Cotto/Williams to look like Williams/Margarito. Cotto is shorter than Margarito too...

Something needs to be said about Williams weight. 164 is waaaaaay to much on fight night for a WW fight. Thats just insane abuse of the rule book. They should probably go back to the old rules where a guy has to weigh in closer to fight time.

Williams is obviously a Jr MW to a MW. Yet he's able to mk weight at the weigh ins for 47. He wont last at the higher weights because he has no power at WW. He'd have even less at the higher weights and his physical advantages will diminish because the guys are bigger and taller in most cases at higher weight. He may be stuck between a rock and a hard place...
caneman
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Feb 10 2008, 11:58 AM) [snapback]378010[/snapback]
Here's where we disagree. I dont think Floyd picks Williams apart. Quintana was a tall rangy boxer. His best asset last nite was that he was a southpaw. Williams was headhunting, but he's so used to fighting orthodox fighters that his jab was always in a place that Quintana's head wasnt. THAT was the difference last nite. If Williams fights a rt handed guy, his jab hits a bit more often because his opponents head would be in the right place. I also think that Williams power is becoming his greatest weakness.

I still think Williams beats most of the guys at WW because most of them are orthodox fighters. Floyd and Cotto's heads would be in the right area for Williams to hit. Floyd would provide movement, but he's also not as big as Quintana. I dont see Mayweather hitting as hard as Quintana either. Cotto would test Williams a bit more because of his power, but I'd expect Cotto/Williams to look like Williams/Margarito. Cotto is shorter than Margarito too...

Something needs to be said about Williams weight. 164 is waaaaaay to much on fight night for a WW fight. Thats just insane abuse of the rule book. They should probably go back to the old rules where a guy has to weigh in closer to fight time.

Williams is obviously a Jr MW to a MW. Yet he's able to mk weight at the weigh ins for 47. He wont last at the higher weights because he has no power at WW. He'd have even less at the higher weights and his physical advantages will diminish because the guys are bigger and taller in most cases at higher weight. He may be stuck between a rock and a hard place...


good post homie thumbsup_anim.gif i agree with you 10 fold!
salvador
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Feb 10 2008, 12:58 PM) [snapback]378010[/snapback]
Here's where we disagree. I dont think Floyd picks Williams apart. Quintana was a tall rangy boxer. His best asset last nite was that he was a southpaw. Williams was headhunting, but he's so used to fighting orthodox fighters that his jab was always in a place that Quintana's head wasnt. THAT was the difference last nite. If Williams fights a rt handed guy, his jab hits a bit more often because his opponents head would be in the right place. I also think that Williams power is becoming his greatest weakness.

I still think Williams beats most of the guys at WW because most of them are orthodox fighters. Floyd and Cotto's heads would be in the right area for Williams to hit. Floyd would provide movement, but he's also not as big as Quintana. I dont see Mayweather hitting as hard as Quintana either. Cotto would test Williams a bit more because of his power, but I'd expect Cotto/Williams to look like Williams/Margarito. Cotto is shorter than Margarito too...

Something needs to be said about Williams weight. 164 is waaaaaay to much on fight night for a WW fight. Thats just insane abuse of the rule book. They should probably go back to the old rules where a guy has to weigh in closer to fight time.

Williams is obviously a Jr MW to a MW. Yet he's able to mk weight at the weigh ins for 47. He wont last at the higher weights because he has no power at WW. He'd have even less at the higher weights and his physical advantages will diminish because the guys are bigger and taller in most cases at higher weight. He may be stuck between a rock and a hard place...


I totally agree with you that the fact that Quintana's a southpaw was a huge part of Williams' problem with him and it goes back to Paul's lack of amateur experience. 26 amateur fights just ain't enough to see all the styles out there, not to mention that he should have been in the ring with southpaws at least 10 or more times before turning pro.

The reason I think Floyd would pick Williams apart is because Floyd is faster and slicker than Quintana, and his punches are more accurate. Quintana was timing Williams from the opening bell. The only question with Floyd would be whether or not he would be willing to get inside and throw countershots with the kind of authority that Quintana did. And I'll say it again, Quintana's willingness to throw hard left hands with Williams inside was a huge factor. You're right that Williams was unable to set anything up because he couldn't land his jab, but it's just hard for me to see Floyd getting caught too many times if he commits to heavy counter potshots and gets back outside quickly. And Floyd would have to get caught with a lot of those shots because Williams has no power.

Williams's defense was always weak and his chin makes up for a lot of it. But if Quintana can pick him apart like that, Floyd will have a field day.

And we agree about Cotto. And I'd bet we agree that the most exciting fight in the division right now is Cotto-Margarito.

And 164 was rediculous. That had to have drained him.
hardhead
QUOTE(salvador @ Feb 10 2008, 04:29 PM) [snapback]378005[/snapback]
Because I thought Williams was a very legit threat to Floyd and Cotto. Obviously Floyd would pick him apart. I'm not quite sure that Cotto would, because Cotto's not as slick as Quintana, though I'd still bet on Cotto.

The idea of having the best fighter in the sport in the same division with a guy like Williams with such incredible physical advantages was like the holy grail of boxing to me. Until last night, I thought that if Floyd ever fought Williams that Floyd would have to show what he was made of if he wanted to win. Because I fundamentally assumed that in order for Floyd to beat Williams, Floyd would have to take a lot of shots in order to land his. That's clearly not the case.

Floyd has the most talent of any fighter I've seen and I really want to see him tested before he retires. I suppose Cotto could be that guy, but I doubt it. I really thought Williams was the guy. And I thought that Williams could have made highly entertaining fights with anyone he fought just because of his style.

Quintana was underrated and it's exciting to see a 31 year old guy grit it out and finally get an opportunity for a big payday (I think the winner of Margarito-Cintron will be more than happy to fight him, assuming that Cotto doesn't take the winner of that fight). I just don't think that Quintana has a prayer against Floyd or Cotto, and so the only thing that happened last night was that the number of elite wws just shrank by a quarter or a third, depending on your pov.

That said, Quintana - Judah might be pretty damn entertaining.



I know exactly what you mean and I feel the same way, I'm more disappointed for Paul(and the potential fights that are on hold) then I'm happy for Quintana..
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Feb 10 2008, 12:16 PM) [snapback]378017[/snapback]
And 164 was rediculous. That had to have drained him.


Exactly, which is why I hate the "he gained TOO MUCH WEIGHT after the weigh in" argument. Any time someone puts on serious weight after the weigh in like we saw with Williams at 147, or Corrales at 130, Cotto at 140, etc any "advantage" they have of rehydrating and outweighing their opponent on fight night is nullified by the fact that they had to kill themselves to make weight. 9 times out of 10 you will see a more sluggish fighter in the ring resulting from the struggle to dry out, and that's why these guys look more alive when they move up a division.

Bottom line in my opinion is that any weight "advantage" after rehydrating really isn't an advantage at all when you're talking excessive amounts.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Feb 10 2008, 12:16 PM) [snapback]378017[/snapback]
And 164 was rediculous. That had to have drained him.


Exactly, which is why I hate the "he gained TOO MUCH WEIGHT after the weigh in" argument. Any time someone puts on serious weight after the weigh in like we saw with Williams at 147, or Corrales at 130, Cotto at 140, etc any "advantage" they have of rehydrating and outweighing their opponent on fight night is nullified by the fact that they had to kill themselves to make weight. 9 times out of 10 you will see a more sluggish fighter in the ring resulting from the struggle to dry out, and that's why these guys look more alive when they move up a division.

Bottom line in my opinion is that any weight "advantage" after rehydrating really isn't an advantage at all when you're talking excessive amounts.
BrutalBodyShots
Another thing is that people make far too big of a deal about "reach" being such a factor. Reach IMO is a tremendous asset when you have an excellent jab (which you use constantly) and when you have good defense. I think a decent example of this would be Lennox Lewis.

Williams has a good jab but doesn't fight tall and use it constantly like he should. Furthermore his defense leaves much to be desired and he is hit with leads very easily.

When you take that into account, Williams' 10+" reach advantage is really meaningless against a good fighter. Any fighter can easily close that distance by slipping a jab and firing a lead shot. And it just makes it all the easier when that jab isn't consistent. I think Mayweather would eat Williams alive with lead right hands and "check" left hooks. After the Quintana fight I find it hard to use Williams reach as an argument for him beating top guys.

kidbazooka1
QUOTE(Yucayeke @ Feb 10 2008, 10:06 AM) [snapback]377961[/snapback]
I thought it was a good close fight. But I did see it going to Quintana.

I was surprised that Williams did not capitalize more on his jab. When it landed it clearly bothered Carlos. Also I was surprised to see just how very effective Carlos was on the inside.


The reason for that I think was because of Carlos movement and greater speed.
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