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Byrd Man
GL: A lot of heat on Boxingtalk about the Pavlik-Wright fight. Has you positioned on the bout changed any? "The type of money that he'd want is out of sight...GL: (cutting in) Did you know that Winky Wright told me that he's willing to offer Pavlik the lion's share to make the fight happen? "F**k the lion's share! Look, right now we're looking at different fighters. Rubio. Lorenzo and a couple of others and we know what it's going to take to sign them. He ain't fighting for that kind of money so goodbye. I remember what he did with us and for me, I'm not excited about doing a Winky Wright fight. I'm not going to go to any of the networks and ask for more money because it's Winky Wright. Let Winky Wright swing for himself."

GL: But Bobfather, everbody but you seems to know that this is the biggest middleweight fight out there, including Pavlik.

Bob Arum: "It doesn't put a nickel in anybody's pocket. It's not a PPV fight, it's an HBO fight. The gate is the same, it doesn't put a nickel in anybody's pocket. It's not a PPV."

GL: If you put it on PPV it couldn't do much worse than the Taylor rematch did.

BA: "I know, but I'm not interested in doing a PPV fight for Pavlik. I want to put Pavlik in front of the biggest possible audience, so people can see him, not a piddling audience we get on PPV."

GL: Did Winky Wright do something to you or Top Rank that makes this personal?

BA: "I have nothing against Winky Wright. I don't care about Winky Wright. Maybe down the line Winky Wright emerges as an opponent. Right now there's no synergy there and it doesn't mean anything."

GL: It means that the two best middleweights would be fighting each other.

BA: "It means shit. It doesn't mean anything. It means having to go to HBO and asking for more money to put that money in Winky Wright's pocket and I don't work that way. I am not interested in Winky Wright, period. Period."

GL: The Bobfather doesn't want to bend to the stick for the best fight at middleweight.

BA: "That's your opinion. You may be right, you may be wrong. Who cares? I'm going to run my business my way. I know what I have to do for Kelly and his career and for Kelly and his career, I don't want him on PPV television for the rest of the year."

GL: No way Pavlik-Wright can go regular HBO.

BA: "No."

GL: I don't agree with you on that one either, HBO would ante up. The Bobfather doesn't like the best fight, I love it!

BA: "Okay, I got to get off."
Col Reb
Personally, I'm glad that they're not putting him in with Winky. He'd find a way to make it a boring fight, and the division is not better off with Wright as champion. I know that sounds very bad, but right now we need a champion who will excite the fans. If Pavlik is to lose, which I think he would against Winky, I would rather it happen against a guy who can bring excitement. Plus, Winky is so difficult with negotiations, it's kind of nice seeing him shut out like this. I'm happy to hear Arum say it like it is.
STEVENSKI
So what has Stinky done lately? get a dodgy draw with taylor & get humiliated by a old man. Yup he is the # 2 middleweight around.

Does Leon buy snake oil as well as the bullshit he spouts?
Byrd Man
money isn't the option because Wright has stated he'll easily give Pavlik the majority of the money.

And it's not just leon making the Pavlik/Wright suggestion, it's been brought up by more than just him. There's even a thread about it on this forum, so I'm guessing it's something that's on people's minds.
salvador
Cause Arum has no idea of how Pavlik would match up with Winky until they get in the ring.

Winky's too much risk for too little money, especially when HBO loves Pavlik and will undoubtedly give him a couple of semi-easy WCB slots in order to help build a fan base.

I'd really love to see this fight (something I never thought I'd hear myself say about a Winky fight), but if I was Arum I wouldn't be in any hurry to take on that kind of risk when there are guys like Sturm and Duddy just waiting for paydays.

D-MARV
Kelly Pavlik should Call Out Felix Sturm. He'll KO him!
As for Winky he Should fight Arthur Abraham on the same Card and the 2 winners fight in Dec!
Method
Pavlik should fight Wright now, no if's, and's, or but's. Biggest fight at middleweight, and let's face it, the publicity and a victory would be GREAT for Pavlik's marketability. Plus, it would be a middleweight defense. Wright is the best middleweight challenger out there. A soft touch would be a wast and would do nothing to enhance Pavlik's image. Let's face it, he could use another big name on his dossier. Taylor was champ and all, but I think anohter high profile fight does Pavlik good, and a fight with Wink wouldn't taken anything out of Pavlik, road wear-wise.

Arum is being a fucking pussy. It seemed like he didn't want to deal w Wright because Wright isn't w a promoter, but it also could be that Arum doesn't want to deal with Golden Boy, because Wright did say for Arum to call Richard Shaefer. Regardless, Arum making the decision without consulting with Team Pavlik, who publically said they're all about the fight is bullshit.

The the two go at it if they want each other. I would love to see Pavlik get a win over Wright, and, if he didn't, there'd be no shame and no long-term damage.
thehype
"Winky Wright" and "big fight" in the same sentence?

I can't buy into that one.

laugh.gif
rusty_trombone
I don't think a win over winky wright does crap for Pavlik's marketability. It's not like Pavlik is a tough guy to market, a white guy with a helluva alot of power who wants to trade and has a good ass chin. The general public will like this guy no matter what, why put him in there with boring ass winky, it could only diminish his stature, cause even if he does beat Winky, he'll look bad and Winky will cry about a bum decision. Sure, the boxing public wants to see it, because it's probably the two best middles, but to a businessman that fight makes no sense. Especially since the event itself would not be very profitable/entertaining.
thehype
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Feb 27 2008, 08:30 PM) [snapback]380410[/snapback]
I don't think a win over winky wright does crap for Pavlik's marketability. It's not like Pavlik is a tough guy to market, a white guy with a helluva alot of power who wants to trade and has a good ass chin. The general public will like this guy no matter what, why put him in there with boring ass winky, it could only diminish his stature, cause even if he does beat Winky, he'll look bad and Winky will cry about a bum decision. Sure, the boxing public wants to see it, because it's probably the two best middles, but to a businessman that fight makes no sense. Especially since the event itself would not be very profitable/entertaining.


clapping.gif

+1


Jack 1000
QUOTE(thehype @ Feb 27 2008, 07:43 PM) [snapback]380412[/snapback]
clapping.gif

+1


Cosign!!

Wright has good defensive skills, and can still make the best fighters look bad. HBO/Arum have too much of a potential star in Pavlik for him to be fighting Wright. If Pavlik were to win a close decision and even a debated decision, it would not look good from a marketing standpoint for him The only way it looks good for Pavlik would be KTFO out of Winky Wright, but that is very unlikely to happen. From a business standpoint, I echo the issues above. It's largely economics, and the bangers who put asses in the seats. You got a White dude, that likes to mix it up and bang. Therefore, to get notoriety, you put him in with other fighters who like to mix it up and bang, or at least not risk stinking out the joint. Why do you think there was talk about Pavlik fighting Duddy before Duddy got his faced turned into hamburger by some bum? Remember the Gerry Cooney phenomenon and how the build-up for the Holmes fight was huge? The race card going into this fight was HUGE. People going, "We want Cooney!! We Want a White Champion." Holmes was a great businessman. He saw the racist angles that the fight generated. Cooney was very game, with Holmes controlling, but Cooney not giving up. I had it 7-4-1 for Larry at the stoppage. Cooney had that following by building up his reputation and extending that reputation by KO'ing fighters who were past their prime, (Norton for example.) He never won the title.

But now, you have Arum with Pavlik who has the World Middleweight Championship and is a banger with a great chin, and the ability to come back after an ass-kicking (Taylor I, round 2) to KFTO of his opponent in the same fight, and he proves its no fluke by winning the rematch. Put Pavlik in with Wright and you run the risk of:

1.) A boring fight

2.) Pavlik looking bad because of Wright's defensive skills.

3.) Arum looking bad if Pavlik looks bad because he's now got a banging brawling with a never-say-die attitude, and a come from behind to win work ethic. From the following that Pavlik is getting, why fight Wright when the money isn't there? Winky doesn't even have a title, so where is the incentive to go after him?

4.) And if Wright beats Pavlik, Lampley has to put away the pom-poms. HBO won't like that.

Agree that Wright can still be competitive. But how do you market a fighter who isn't noted as an exciting fighter? Taylor before the Pavlik fights could be boring as well, but before Pavlik, Taylor had the title, (no matter who you think won the Hopkins fights, which were both very close.) What big win his Wright had of recent to warrant that he should get a shot at Pavlik?

Jack
D-MARV
Winky Wright would do nothing for Pavlik!
The only way this fight should happen is if Pavlik can't unify. If Pavlik beats Winky then the public will say Winky was past his prime! If Winky wins then Pavlik will have to go back to the drawing board.
Pavlik should Unify then move up and target BHOP-Calzaghe winner.

Duddy Vs Andy Lee anyone?
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 27 2008, 10:39 PM) [snapback]380427[/snapback]
I disagree about this fight not doing anything for Pavlik. It may not be exciting, but it's a fight that will show where he is really at. This is a very important fight. You may not think it's exciting, but it is important.

Yeah, but it's only important to hardcore boxing fans, and that's not who Arum wants Pavlik to be fighting for. He wants to make money for his fighter, and a fight against Wright, although good for his "boxing legacy", doesn't make any cash and potentially damages Pavlik's career even if he wins. He gets just as much acclaim for fighting Sturm or Abraham, and he'll be unifying the belts. The only way the Wright fight would be worthwhile to him is if Wright had a strap, as meaningless as that is.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Feb 27 2008, 10:18 PM) [snapback]380425[/snapback]
Winky Wright would do nothing for Pavlik!
The only way this fight should happen is if Pavlik can't unify. If Pavlik beats Winky then the public will say Winky was past his prime! If Winky wins then Pavlik will have to go back to the drawing board.
Pavlik should Unify then move up and target BHOP-Calzaghe winner.

Duddy Vs Andy Lee anyone?

I wouldn't mind seeing him fight the winner of the BHOP-Zags fight now, even without unifying. hell I wouldn't mind seeing him fight the loser either.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Feb 27 2008, 09:30 PM) [snapback]380410[/snapback]
I don't think a win over winky wright does crap for Pavlik's marketability. It's not like Pavlik is a tough guy to market, a white guy with a helluva alot of power who wants to trade and has a good ass chin. The general public will like this guy no matter what, why put him in there with boring ass winky, it could only diminish his stature, cause even if he does beat Winky, he'll look bad and Winky will cry about a bum decision. Sure, the boxing public wants to see it, because it's probably the two best middles, but to a businessman that fight makes no sense. Especially since the event itself would not be very profitable/entertaining.

100% agreed. People said Taylor would get props win or lose for fighting guys like Hopkins and Winky and what happened? The hardcore fans turned on him.

Pavlik's only 25, coming off three consecutive high profile fights. He's gaining a following and I see nothing wrong with feeding him a couple of gimmes for him to look spectacular in. The big fights will always be there for him. No need to rush into another one right away against a guy who more than likely will stink out the joint.
thehype
Why is a fight with Wright important?

What's Winky done?

Beat up little Shane?

Ooooooooh.

Jabbed Trinidad back into...BACK into retirement.

Ooooooooh.

Please. Winky was nothin' but some guy who had a close loss to Vargas before he rocketed into the top P4P rankings based off his wins over itty bitty post-Balco Mosley. He stunk it up in one of the most lopsided, dominant and yet BORING decisions I've ever seen against a post-retirement Trinidad, he stunk it up with CONTENDER STAR Sam Soliman, he had a surefire win until he literally TOOK HIS FOOT OFF THE PEDAL and let Taylor crawl his way back to a DRAW, I BARELY remember anything about the Quartey fight (who happened to be another guy fresh out of retirement), and the he lost to Nard in another fight I barely remember anything about. Nah....I'm rollin with Bob regarding this one...fuck him. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure if Winky deserves to be on TV. He needs to show me something. Give me a reason to want to watch you fight Winky. I'm not even sure if he's as good as people remember him being.

How about this?

WINKY CAN FIGHT TARVIS SIMMS!!!!!

Yeah...that sounds perfect...Wright vs. Simms on ESPN...okay, okay, okay...HBO Boxing After Dark. Yeah...that's perfect...that's right about where his fights belong. And hey...what do you know....Leon happens to be the manager of Tarvis Simms. They can make that fight IMMEDIATELY (incidentally, Tarvis Simms has GOT to be wondering when in the hell Leon is going to get him a fight...I'm sure Tarvis would be willing to give the lion's share to Pavlik too)...put it on the undercard of Pavlik's next fight and Winky can PROVE to me that he deserves a shot at the middleweight champ. Otherwise....get in the back of the line homie.

Hmmmm...maybe I should write an article.

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOL

Well...at least that's how Dana White would handle a fighter like him if this were the UFC...kind of like he did Andrei Arlovski.
WolfishPromistah
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Feb 27 2008, 10:06 PM) [snapback]380423[/snapback]
Cosign!!

Wright has good defensive skills, and can still make the best fighters look bad. HBO/Arum have too much of a potential star in Pavlik for him to be fighting Wright. If Pavlik were to win a close decision and even a debated decision, it would not look good from a marketing standpoint for him The only way it looks good for Pavlik would be KTFO out of Winky Wright, but that is very unlikely to happen. From a business standpoint, I echo the issues above. It's largely economics, and the bangers who put asses in the seats. You got a White dude, that likes to mix it up and bang. Therefore, to get notoriety, you put him in with other fighters who like to mix it up and bang, or at least not risk stinking out the joint. Why do you think there was talk about Pavlik fighting Duddy before Duddy got his faced turned into hamburger by some bum? Remember the Gerry Cooney phenomenon and how the build-up for the Holmes fight was huge? The race card going into this fight was HUGE. People going, "We want Cooney!! We Want a White Champion." Holmes was a great businessman. He saw the racist angles that the fight generated. Cooney was very game, with Holmes controlling, but Cooney not giving up. I had it 7-4-1 for Larry at the stoppage. Cooney had that following by building up his reputation and extending that reputation by KO'ing fighters who were past their prime, (Norton for example.) He never won the title.

But now, you have Arum with Pavlik who has the World Middleweight Championship and is a banger with a great chin, and the ability to come back after an ass-kicking (Taylor I, round 2) to KFTO of his opponent in the same fight, and he proves its no fluke by winning the rematch. Put Pavlik in with Wright and you run the risk of:

1.) A boring fight

2.) Pavlik looking bad because of Wright's defensive skills.

3.) Arum looking bad if Pavlik looks bad because he's now got a banging brawling with a never-say-die attitude, and a come from behind to win work ethic. From the following that Pavlik is getting, why fight Wright when the money isn't there? Winky doesn't even have a title, so where is the incentive to go after him?

4.) And if Wright beats Pavlik, Lampley has to put away the pom-poms. HBO won't like that.

Agree that Wright can still be competitive. But how do you market a fighter who isn't noted as an exciting fighter? Taylor before the Pavlik fights could be boring as well, but before Pavlik, Taylor had the title, (no matter who you think won the Hopkins fights, which were both very close.) What big win his Wright had of recent to warrant that he should get a shot at Pavlik?

Jack



A fine post, Jack -- good one; I agree 100%. In general, sure I'd love to see Winky fight Kelly, as I know it'd be a test of Pavlik's ability to get by someone with an extremely good defense. However Winky, as noted, just has nothing to bring to the table financially, as much as there's nothing against him personally for me. Oh, I would love for the world to be able to look past business 'just FOR the sake of what could be,' if nothing more, but it's unfortunate that the business side proves Winky is just...Winky, if that's clear enough. And I think ya do know what I echo in that [shrugs]
BigG
So we'd rather see Pavlik fight some chump like Duddy becuase it would be a more "exciting" fight? I'm sorry, I'd rather see Pavlik-Wright anydya because

1-It is more significant than Duddy who is average, hittable, and not so proven. Lorenzo too...who has that guy been tested against? Sturm is basically like a poor mans Winky except he is even less of a name.

2-Duddy is not half the fighter Winky is.

3-It does more for Pavlik legacy wise. Weather you like Winky or not (I'm not a big fan), he is without a doubt the 2nd best Middleweight in the world.

And I don't think Pavlik-Wright would be a "boring" fight. First of all, when people come to fight Winky inside..it makes for crowd pleasing fights ala Taylor, Vargas, Mosley, Quartey, and even Sam Soliman.

And I enjoyed Hopkins-Winky because it was an interesting clash of styles and two masters at work.
streetlion1
He doesnt want kelly to fight Winky because he doesnt want his new star to get beatin so quickly...Winky would out-box Pavlik.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Feb 28 2008, 09:46 AM) [snapback]380442[/snapback]
It is more significant than Duddy who is average, hittable, and not so proven. Lorenzo too...who has that guy been tested against? Sturm is basically like a poor mans Winky except he is even less of a name.

Why does Arum need to turn around and rush Pavlik right back into another difficult fight after the last three he had with Taylor and Miranda? When Taylor went from tough fight to tough fight everyone decided he sucked even though he kept pulling out decisions. Don't you think Arum saw what that succession of fights did to Taylor's credibility and marketability? Don't you think he'd like to avoid making those same mistakes with Pavlik?

So if Pavlik fights Duddy or Lorenzo or someone of that ilk next, does that mean he's officially ducking Wright? Does that mean he starts getting blasted on here for avoiding the big fights? C'mon.
BigJuicyHog
I say make a fight against a fighter with a good record for Pavlik to look impressive against and ahve Winky on the undercard. Then have them fight in their next fights after that unless Pavlik in busy unifying.
dj necrogenic
Is it me, or does Arum seem pretty pissed at Greg?
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(dj necrogenic @ Feb 28 2008, 01:07 PM) [snapback]380460[/snapback]
Is it me, or does Arum seem pretty pissed at Greg?

It's not you. I thought so as well.
Method
B/C its a very winnable fight for Kelly with zero physical risk.
thehype
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Feb 28 2008, 08:46 AM) [snapback]380442[/snapback]
Weather you like Winky or not (I'm not a big fan), he is without a doubt the 2nd best Middleweight in the world.


Based on what? His win at middleweight over Sam Soliman or his win at middleweight over Ike Quartey?

laugh.gif

Personally, I doubt that he's the 2nd best middleweight in the world. He hasn't even fought at middleweight since December of 2006. Truth be told, I'm not even 100% sure he can make middleweight...and even if he can, are you 100% sure he can beat an Arthur Abraham, or Edison Miranda, or Felix Sturm...hell, could he even beat the Jermain Taylor that showed up for the second Pavlik fight? If he wouldn't have stormed out of the ring and cried like a baby after his draw, but instead, would have taken the immediate rematch as opposed to demanding a 50-50 split, then maybe he wouldn't be in this situation right now where he's gotta beg for fights.

Sorry, but I have no problem with Pavlik fighting someone like Lorenzo...he's earned his shot and you can't keep catering to these guys just because they have a recognizable name. Besides, before Pavlik got his shot, people were saying the same thing...he's average, he's hittable, he's not so proven, who has he fought...now look who's calling the shots.

Fuck Winky...let him prove he's worth watching and then maybe I'll get excited about a Pavlik-Wright clash.

Until then, someone should focus on getting Tarvis Simms a fight.

I hear Pavlik is looking for an opponent.

LOL

That's the one great thing about the UFC...if you stink up the joint, you don't fight on TV. I love it.
Mean Mister Mustard
I want to see Wright fight Pavlik, it's the only big fight next to the Abraham one, plus HBO doesn't care about Abraham right now. It seems to me what Arum wants to do is get Pavlik in against top 10 contenders that aren't elite fighters like Wright and then have Pavlik fight him in 2009 when Wright will be another year older. Or maybe Wright goes to Germany and loses to Abraham and Arum is rid of tricky turtle shell southpaw Wright.
BigG
I think Winky beats Abraham. Miranda isn't a MW anymore. And Sturm is basically a poor mans Winky. IMO, Winky is the 2nd best fighter at MW right now.

I'm looking at Lorenzo's record and he has not beaten ANYONE...at least Soliman was a good name and a Quartey was coming off a controversial loss to Forrest..

I have no problem with Pavlik taking a tune up, but Winky-Pavlik is without a doubt the BEST matchup at MW right now with Jermain Taylor gone..

It would be the only MW fight I would classify as a "superfight" unless Abraham/Sturm unify..then the winner of that vs. Pavlik would be a superfight too.
thehype
Technically, Winky's not a middleweight anymore either so when you refer to middleweights, I'm assuming you're referring to any of those guys that fight between 160 and 170.

As for "superfights"....there are no "superfights" at middleweight (just like there aren't any "superfights" at heavyweight)...there's nothing about the name Winky Wright that leads me to believe he's a "superfight" kind of guy.

There needs to be some kid of build-up in order to make a fight a "superfight" and right now, Pavlik-Wright just ain't it...not when Winky hasn't done a damn thing since losing to Hopkins.

And I disagree about Pavlik-Wright being the best "matchup". Abraham or Miranda (who, as you so eloquently pointed out, no longer fights at 160, but would love the opportunity to fight Pavlik again) would be better matchups because you know they're coming to fight...as opposed to Winky who's just coming to collect a paycheck to help support his gambling habit!
JD
Personally, I think Pavlik deserves a soft touch after his 12 month schedule.

Zertuche, Miranda, Taylor, Taylor.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(thehype @ Feb 28 2008, 01:36 PM) [snapback]380482[/snapback]
As for "superfights"....there are no "superfights" at middleweight (just like there aren't any "superfights" at heavyweight)...there's nothing about the name Winky Wright that leads me to believe he's a "superfight" kind of guy.

There needs to be some kid of build-up in order to make a fight a "superfight" and right now, Pavlik-Wright just ain't it...not when Winky hasn't done a damn thing since losing to Hopkins.


Well if there are no superfights then I'd at least want to see Pavlik fight either Wright or Abraham. Abraham may have more of a case to fight Pavlik because he's been undefeated but Wright is still the 3rd man of the division. Sure some of Winky's opponents have been past their best but they are still way better than some of the people Duddy or Sturm have faced.

I believe Arum wants Wright to either leave the middleweight division, lose or wait until 2009 to fight Wright. To him it's smart buisness but it is still a cowardly move.
Method
QUOTE
Personally, I think Pavlik deserves a soft touch after his 12 month schedule.


Personally, I think Wright IS that "soft" touch. There is no way Pavlik gets hurt, and he likely beats Wright, IMO. Plus, that victory is a nice notch on his legacy belt, and garners him a higher asking price all around no matter who he fights. He'll be able to get paid more fighting the Lorenzo's of the world with Taylor, Miranda and now Wright's scalps on his belt. With only 250K people paying for the rematch with Taylor, I think going bac to the Lorenzo's of the world so soon doesn't do enough to build this kid's following. Obviously we agree that Wright is no mega star, but he's better known than anyone else on Pavlik's resume (save, perhaps, maybe Taylor, although I think he might be more well known than Jermain), so it furthers Kelly's exposure/fan base.
JD
QUOTE(Method @ Feb 28 2008, 03:09 PM) [snapback]380498[/snapback]
Personally, I think Wright IS that "soft" touch. There is no way Pavlik gets hurt, and he likely beats Wright, IMO. Plus, that victory is a nice notch on his legacy belt, and garners him a higher asking price all around no matter who he fights. He'll be able to get paid more fighting the Lorenzo's of the world with Taylor, Miranda and now Wright's scalps on his belt.


I do not see Winky Wright as a soft touch.

Duddy was a soft touch, in my opinion.
Method
I literally meant in terms of Pavlik stands to take NO physical punishment. Duddy may be a softer touch, in the technical sense of the term, but P4P, Wright brings the mose money and isn't as physically risky.
JD
QUOTE(Method @ Feb 28 2008, 03:24 PM) [snapback]380502[/snapback]
I literally meant in terms of Pavlik stands to take NO physical punishment. Duddy may be a softer touch, in the technical sense of the term, but P4P, Wright brings the mose money and isn't as physically risky.


Wright isn't going to knock him out, but physically, he is a strong dude who could potentially outpoint him. While I would take Pavlik, I don't think Winky would go in there with no shot.

That said, when I say soft touch, I am really referring to a guy who is going to get beat on; not a guy that cannot hurt Pavlik but still has big time skill.

But I understand what you are saying.
buford54
I like Winky and I like to watch him fight, but Winky is more risk and less reward than some other fights out there.
I figure, if Arum fought Pavlik against Wright, there are very few fights left for Pavlik to make that would mean anything at MW, and people would be clamoring for him to move up in weight, where he would not be the belt-holder, commanding the lions-share purses.
If he makes a Duddy fight, and Winky takes a tune-up, their fight becomes bigger and it prolongs Kelly's stay at MW. Eventually he'll have to move up.

Arum probably is pissed at Greg. Greg is convinced that he has made every decent fight that happens out there and he always flaunts his phone book and his readers to prove it.
While it's obnoxious of Greg to do so, he is proof of why the media is the 4th estate. He keeps the promoters honest.
If he doesn't watch it though, with his mixing of advising boxers and his website, he'll turn out exactly like them, promoting his fighters on his website, and people will view him the same way they view Arum.
Jack 1000
QUOTE(Method @ Feb 28 2008, 02:09 PM) [snapback]380498[/snapback]
Personally, I think Wright IS that "soft" touch. There is no way Pavlik gets hurt, and he likely beats Wright, IMO. Plus, that victory is a nice notch on his legacy belt, and garners him a higher asking price all around no matter who he fights. He'll be able to get paid more fighting the Lorenzo's of the world with Taylor, Miranda and now Wright's scalps on his belt. With only 250K people paying for the rematch with Taylor, I think going bac to the Lorenzo's of the world so soon doesn't do enough to build this kid's following. Obviously we agree that Wright is no mega star, but he's better known than anyone else on Pavlik's resume (save, perhaps, maybe Taylor, although I think he might be more well known than Jermain), so it furthers Kelly's exposure/fan base.


While Pavlik-Taylor II was an excellent fight, I am glad that it did low PPV numbers. This shows the over-saturation of PPV. The rematch should have been on regular HBO in the first place, and would have drawn higher numbers because of it.

Jack

Method
QUOTE
That said, when I say soft touch, I am really referring to a guy who is going to get beat on; not a guy that cannot hurt Pavlik but still has big time skill.


Yeah, I know. That's the traditional sense/universal understanding of the term. I guess, for this specific situation, I'm looking at it from a slightly different approach.

Wright does have the skill. And could potentially outpoint. I just think the fight is winnable for Pavlik and he should strike while the iron is hot. He could get two fights outta Wright (in the outside chance he loses). Stipulate a rematch clause if you lose (maybe try and get a rematch clause guaranteeing parity if you lose), and stipulate no rematch clause for Wright (if you win). That's the best money for him to make at middleweight right now. The Duddy fight would be best served at Madison Square Garden (NY big Irish contingent), preferably on St. Patty's Day. That's the only other big money making event at middle (unless I am overlooking somebody).

Look, I am not against the soft touch, but it usually helps if that guy is a has-been name or something...like A Yory Boy was for some....like a Joppy...a Keith Holmes...I dunno. But this Lorenzo guy is a palooka, a nobody and, in my opinion, I don't think Pavlik has an established enough fan base/following to waste all this momentum he has going for him on an unknown like Lorenzo. IMO, it would be taking a step or two back, momentum wise. Is Wright THAT much of a threat that you avoid him? I don't think so. I think it's a perfect styles match up for Pavlik. And you have so much more to gain monetarily, legacy, momentum-wise with a victory over Wright while on this current wave of success...
JD
Lorenzo's comp is nothing to speak of, but I would take him over Duddy if they ever fought.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(buford54 @ Feb 28 2008, 05:01 PM) [snapback]380507[/snapback]
I figure, if Arum fought Pavlik against Wright, there are very few fights left for Pavlik to make that would mean anything at MW, and people would be clamoring for him to move up in weight, where he would not be the belt-holder, commanding the lions-share purses.

Very good point.
hardhead
QUOTE(JD @ Feb 28 2008, 06:53 PM) [snapback]380485[/snapback]
Personally, I think Pavlik deserves a soft touch after his 12 month schedule.

Zertuche, Miranda, Taylor, Taylor.



I agree, many top fighters do this after a few big fights, some guys(Leon) act surprised about this, I can't really criticize Pavlik(or Arum) for taking a softer touch after his last three fights(being a heavy underdog in the first two, and knocking them out).

I think there still a good chance the fight can still happen later this year. Pavlik and his team have said they want to stay pretty active(fought 3 times in 07) and already will have fought twice in the first half of 08.
thehype
QUOTE(Method @ Feb 28 2008, 04:46 PM) [snapback]380512[/snapback]
But this Lorenzo guy is a palooka, a nobody with a ton of losses, and,in my opinion, I dont think Pavlik has an established enough fanbase/following to waste all this momentum he has going for him on an unknown like Lorenzo.


Just for the record, Lorenzo is undefeated.

laugh.gif

But anyway...I guess that's kind of my point...I don't think a fight with Winky Wright will do anything to establish a fanbase/following. You're better off putting him in with A) a palooka that he can blast out of there or cool.gif an opponent that's going to produce a fight with fireworks. I don't think Winky Wright is that guy. Tarvis Simms or Lorenzo, on the other hand, sound like the perfect type of opponent. Marco Antonio Rubio sounds even better since he'll likely produce the type of fireworks that will make for a memorable fight.

I agree that a fight with Winky Wright would be important for Pavlik's legacy, but I just don't see that as being a "big" fight right now. They need to build the hype up a bit for it and it's going to take more than a few fans writing in to a mailbag to make it the "superfight" that some people think it is. After the loss to Hopkins and the crying he did about the draw to Taylor, Winky needs to do something to remind everyone why this fight must happen. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need to see Pavlik fight Winky in order to know that he's legit. He stopped Taylor in the first fight...something Winky and Bernard couldn't do...and when Taylor cried about the weight, he fought him and beat him again on Taylor's terms. No controversy and no crying about a draw.

Just my opinion though.
Method
QUOTE
Just for the record, Lorenzo is undefeated.


Yeah, that was my mistake (I had him confused with another potential opponent), coincidentally I corrected that this AM, but you beat me to it.
stateofthegame
And in my opinion, Wright is not the best middleweight contender out there at the moment anyway. He got a controversial win against Soliman, a draw against Taylor, beat Ike Quartey whose desire is questionable, and lost to Hopkins at a higher weight. These other so called contenders to Pavlik are at least active in the division and have beated middleweights. Winky wants to get his name out there so people will remember him and forget that his last fight was almost a year ago and he lost that one to a guy Taylor beat twice on the record books.
streetlion1
QUOTE(stateofthegame @ Feb 29 2008, 01:41 PM) [snapback]380629[/snapback]
And in my opinion, Wright is not the best middleweight contender out there at the moment anyway. He got a controversial win against Soliman, a draw against Taylor, beat Ike Quartey whose desire is questionable, and lost to Hopkins at a higher weight. These other so called contenders to Pavlik are at least active in the division and have beated middleweights. Winky wants to get his name out there so people will remember him and forget that his last fight was almost a year ago and he lost that one to a guy Taylor beat twice on the record books.

There is no shame in losing to B-hop....jc will find that out soon! IMO he deserved the decision against jt..and clearly beat the other 2 you mentioned. inactivity at his age is his only question mark..but if he came in shape there is no reason to believe he wouldnt dominate Kelly. That is why Arum wants no part of him.
jackson
QUOTE(thehype @ Feb 28 2008, 01:17 PM) [snapback]380476[/snapback]
Based on what? His win at middleweight over Sam Soliman or his win at middleweight over Ike Quartey?

laugh.gif

Personally, I doubt that he's the 2nd best middleweight in the world. He hasn't even fought at middleweight since December of 2006. Truth be told, I'm not even 100% sure he can make middleweight...and even if he can, are you 100% sure he can beat an Arthur Abraham, or Edison Miranda, or Felix Sturm...hell, could he even beat the Jermain Taylor that showed up for the second Pavlik fight? If he wouldn't have stormed out of the ring and cried like a baby after his draw, but instead, would have taken the immediate rematch as opposed to demanding a 50-50 split, then maybe he wouldn't be in this situation right now where he's gotta beg for fights.

Sorry, but I have no problem with Pavlik fighting someone like Lorenzo...he's earned his shot and you can't keep catering to these guys just because they have a recognizable name. Besides, before Pavlik got his shot, people were saying the same thing...he's average, he's hittable, he's not so proven, who has he fought...now look who's calling the shots.

Fuck Winky...let him prove he's worth watching and then maybe I'll get excited about a Pavlik-Wright clash.

Until then, someone should focus on getting Tarvis Simms a fight.

I hear Pavlik is looking for an opponent.

LOL

That's the one great thing about the UFC...if you stink up the joint, you don't fight on TV. I love it.


Hype, if you don't think wright vs pavlik is a big fight then something is really wrong with you. Sure wright hasn't won a big middleweight fight since 05 vs trinidad but many people thought wright beat taylor.

Wright hasn't lose a fight at middleweight so basically wright is the 2nd best middleweight behind pavlik. You actually think abraham, sturm or the rest of the middleweights right now can beat wright? Lol Come on hype.


I read your comments saying wright don't bring exciting fights well smart guy i guess you actually missed taylor vs wright cause it was a great great fight.


Wright vs Hopkins wasn't exciting fight cause well it's hopkins style that will make any fighter look like a boring fighter.


I also read some people that say that if pavlik beats winky that the public won't give pavlik credit cause he's pass his prime well if winky is passed his prime or not, he's still a very good difficult fighter.


If anybody has a brain then they know that right now pavlik vs wright is the big fight that should happen.
D-MARV
QUOTE(stateofthegame @ Feb 29 2008, 02:41 PM) [snapback]380629[/snapback]
He got a controversial win against Soliman

Are you saying Soliman was robbed? thumbsdown_anim.gif
LOL
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 1 2008, 07:11 PM) [snapback]380812[/snapback]
Are you saying Soliman was robbed? thumbsdown_anim.gif
LOL


You beat me to it. Did Soliman win more than 3 rounds in that fight?

Since when are wins against Trinidad, Soliman and Quartey bad? Quartey had beaten Phillips and Forrest before he ran into Wright and the Winkster beat them all decisevely. He lost to Hopkins, big deal. He gave him a very tough fight and had Hopkins holding on every time he got on the inside.

Now I don't like Wright, his bitching and moaning after close fights and his constant need to put up his arms in victory after every round piss me of. But other than Hopkins no one has figured out how to convincingly beat Wright. The man is hard to beat and it's going to take more than beating on his arms to best him.

According to Ring Magazine, Abraham is the number one contender. But apart from him Winky is the biggest fight. He has a name, he has a solid resume and he can fight.
stateofthegame
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 2 2008, 05:11 AM) [snapback]380812[/snapback]
Are you saying Soliman was robbed? thumbsdown_anim.gif
LOL

Just like everyone referring to people saying Wright beat Taylor, I know a lot of people that think Soliman beat Wright. You people put Winky on this pedestal that he really does not belong on.

Even if you look at his whole career.

He beat Shane Mosley twice. Solid wins.
Three victories over Bronco McKart, not a big deal
Angel Hernandez, JC Candelo, Keith Mullings, Jason Papillion, Robert Frazier,

Trinidad is a name but has never done anything constructive after Hopkins besides retire
Quartey is basically a paycheck guy

Loses to Harry Simon, Fernando Vargas, Juio Cesar Vasquez, and Hopkins. And a draw with Taylor.

even the win over Soliman is not a big deal

Not to mention 4,000 freaking e-mails from Winky Wright promoting his band.

Also Arum tried to make the Wright fight last year against Pavlik and he would not take it, plus he was offered a Taylor rematch on several occasions and the "money" was never good enough for Wright or he did not like the location. Always some excuse.

I did not expect any less as it was Wright as soon as the fight was over that skipped out saying he would never accept another offer to fight Taylor, yet Jermain was immediately wanting a rematch and was saying so at the post fight press conference.

I used to like Wright, but after the way he acted towards everyone in Memphis after the Taylor fight showed what kind of person he really is IMO.

Besides I agree with Meth, Pavik beats Wright.
Mean Mister Mustard
Yeah Wright is an asshole but that doesn't mean a Pavlik fight is not big. You may not think his victories are that big a deal but since his loss to Vargas he has barely lost any rounds.
D-MARV
QUOTE(stateofthegame @ Mar 1 2008, 08:44 PM) [snapback]380828[/snapback]
Even if you look at his whole career.

He beat Shane Mosley twice. Solid wins.
Three victories over Bronco McKart, not a big deal
Angel Hernandez, JC Candelo, Keith Mullings, Jason Papillion, Robert Frazier,

Trinidad is a name but has never done anything constructive after Hopkins besides retire
Quartey is basically a paycheck guy

Loses to Harry Simon, Fernando Vargas, Juio Cesar Vasquez, and Hopkins. And a draw with Taylor.

Unlike the Soliman fight, his losses to Simon and Vargas, and his draw against Taylor were very contraversial.
His Victories over Shane Mosley were very solid as you mentioned.
I give him major props for the Trinidad fight simply because he beat Trinidad every minute of that 36 minute fight.
I respect Wright a great deal and still consider hm P4P top 10. In my opinion he had a very good career and he still has 1 or 2 big fights left in him. Like ive mentioned earlier I have to give Pavlik the slight edge at this point but I can see Winky pulling off the win.
Also let me add that this is a fight that I would like to see but I dont think it wil do much for Pavlik other than put a name on is resume' If he wins then people will say Winky was not in his prime.
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