Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Hopkins-Calzaghe Picks. Preview and Poll!
FightHype Community > OTHER HYPE > Archives
Pages: 1, 2, 3
Mean Mister Mustard
(Admin Notes: I didn't see that we already had a very active thread on the fight already started when I did the Preview Thread and pinned it up....sorry!!! By request, I have merged the topics. Everything is chronologically arranged and about the upcoming fight, so nothing has been over-merged here.) Anyway, I had to redo the poll, because the data didn't carry over. So vote again if you haven't done so already. I apologize for any inconvenience.)

Jack

Administrator


The fight is getting closer and I am getting hyped. When this fight was being discussed in 2006 and 2007 I was against it. I wanted Calzaghe to face Kessler instead of a man in his forties. Then Calzaghe went ahead and outpointed the Great Dane in a good fight and Hopkins bested P4Per Winky Wright and here we are. I was surprised at how many people wanted this fight to happen, not only did fans want to see it but the boxing media was demanding it. And now I too am caught up in the hype. Cannot wait for the countdown, which should send us all on hyperbolic overload.

The thing I can't wait to see is how will Hopkins react to Calzaghe's attack. We know Hopkins is one of the slickest fighters in boxing but will he be able to make Calzaghe miss? Specially when Calzgahe starts throwing punches from crazy angles. After that we will know a lot.

On the question of the punch output I think people are making too much of an issue out of it. First of, we know that Hopkins is hard to hit and a good counterpuncher so let's not be surprised when Calzaghe does not throw 100 punches a round. Plus even if he does, which he won't, Hopkins is preparing for that, if what Hopkins is saying in interviews is true then we can expect a high punch output rate from him as well.

Calzaghe is not stupid, he won't come foward all night long trying to bully Hopkins. Instead he will probably use his jab a lot, get on his toes and dart in and out. The key for him is to mix in his punches. If you look at the first Taylor-Hopkins fight, in the early rounds Taylor threw some wild roundhouse punches that caught Hopkins hard on the shoulders. Calzaghe has to mix in straight punches with looping ones in order to destabilize Hopkins. If Calzaghe throws a bunch of punches on Hopkins it is very likely that Hopkins will land one in return. But if most of Calzaghe's blows land on the body and shoulders, with some being deflected, the judges will still give him credit for landing some and they will then have to decide whether his grazing blows won him the round or whether Hopkins few clean punches did. That is more or less how Hopkins lost the Taylor fightand one of the reasons why this fight will be close.

This fight might play out a bit like Paquiao-Marquez except a little more sloppy, with one fighter more energetic darting in and out and the other fighter more technically sound and composed waiting to counterpunch. Hopkins will have difficulty going on the offensive against Calzaghe, as the Welshman is a good defender himself. Therefore, Hopkins will have to wait for Calzaghe's bursts and time him coming in. It will be difficult to do because Calzaghe is fleet footed and fast. One thing Calzaghe cannot do is to get too wild. You saw in the Kessler fight when he was getting nailed in the 3rd and 4rth rounds, he suddenly seemed to panic and shot straight in throwing wild punches with his head way down. It looked like a chicken attacking a farmer. He was able to adjust and outwork Kessler but what will happen if he starts getting hit and he cannot adapt? I believe he started panicking because he rarely gets hit and being pucnhed as flush as he was made him lose control. Against Hopkins, if he goes nuts like that he may not recover his confidence because Hopkins will not be there to be hit, backing staright up, like Kessler did.

I am going to pick Calzaghe to win. He is too fast, too energetic and almost as good as Hopkins defensively that I cannot see Hopkins dominating Calzaghe. I am not saying that the Philadelphian will be completely outclassed, I see him having his moments and making the fight close. But overall Calzaghe will have won it. He can fight for 12 rounds and Hopkins can't. At some point Hopkins is going to have to rest and at that time he will try to nullify Calzaghe with his defense but he will not be able to do so completely and will lose a decision.

By the way I am rooting for Hopkins.
CreDog
I definitely think it will go 12.

I recently watched the Bika vs Calzaghe fight again and noticed that although Joe won, he didn't like the rough house tactics of Bika. This made me think that B-Hop will bully Calzaghe and try to make it a rough fight ala the Winky fight.

I'm glad this isn't PPV cuz I don't think it'll be pretty.

Hopkins split decision.


Douchebag
I got Hopkins by SD. Calzaghe is going to get roughed up in this fight and won't be able to adjust.
Box in Hand
I too feel Hopkins will win by SD. Hopkins will not allow 100 punches to be thrown per round by Calzaghe. He is the best at shutting down styles.
Tha Docta
i dont think theres anyway this fight ends in a KO. but i think calzaghes workrate will be a problem for hopkins. think joe wins by ud
Future_Champ
I think it will look semi close for maybe the first 6 or 7 rounds. Calzaghe will fight off of emoions in the early rounds.Hopkins always builds up steem as the fight goes. After the 7th Hopkins will take complete control . Calzaghe will get visably frusstrated in the later rounds. I think Calzaghe will get floored in the 9- 12 but will get up and finish the fight.

Hopkins by UD....margins of about 4-5 rounds
thefloatingmonkey
Cal should win this with an UD quite easily.
buford54
I honestly flip flop on this fight way too often.
At a glance, I see Calzaghe getting the W on activity.
As I think about it, I see that even if Calzaghe gets the W, there will be a lot of debate, because Hops will land the cleaner shots, and will either block or make Joe miss most of his.

The real question lies in Joe never really having been in deep water against someone who was still there with him.
Against Lacy, sure, it went all 12, but Joe had pitched a shutout, and Jeff was still there on sheer heart alone...no hope of winning.

The only conclusion that I can come to is a fairly ugly fight, in which Joe wins the first 5-7 rounds despite Hopkins' dirty tactics. He gets frustrated and Hopkins starts to tag him clean in the 6/7th rounds. Hops wins the closing rounds.
Question is who gets the nod? Probably a fight where the winner will be debated for a long time, but nobody wants a rematch because it's ugly.

Of course, if either one wins in dominant fashion, there is a good chance that he won't get credit because the other fighter will have "gotten old overnight."
Method
QUOTE
I think it will look semi close for maybe the first 6 or 7 rounds. Calzaghe will fight off of emoions in the early rounds.Hopkins always builds up steem as the fight goes. After the 7th Hopkins will take complete control . Calzaghe will get visably frusstrated in the later rounds. I think Calzaghe will get floored in the 9- 12 but will get up and finish the fight.

Hopkins by UD....margins of about 4-5 rounds


Agreed. Emphasis on the "look close" ala the DLH fight, where DLH threw a lot of shoe shine flurries that looked nice, but literally got parried away effortlessly.

Like Bernard said, Joe is very Loosey Goosey with his attack, and I think uppercuts, and especially straight right hands are gonna be the major offsetting factor here.

Bernard Hopkins is not a stationary fighter when he doesn't want to be, and when he moves, he does so as well (or better) than anyone in the sport.

I am not saying it's a fore gone conclusion, becuase the fight has to be fought.

Assuming Joe "I don't Know How The Fuck He Got The Assignment" Cortez let's these guys go at it in close, I expect Bernard to get the better of it, because he's just that much better on the inside. I also expect these guys to clash heads, as most conventionals vs Southies usually do, and don't be surprised of you see Joe cut. If Joe gets cut, that could be an issue. If Joe hurts his hands, that could be an issue. However, these are just "ifs" that are not vital to a Hopkins victory here. I see Bernard walking him down and countering the fuck out of him down the stretch. I expect a Hopkins UD, but given Joe's loosey goosey offense of recklessly winging punches, head down, copuled with his squared stance, I would not be surprised to see Joe taste canvas, or even seeing Luigi stop the fight.

Joe Calzaghe is good. Amateurish style, but good at what he does. I expect him to be neutralized and executed. Unlike all his other opponents, he'll be tied up by Bernard if he starts trying to get overly offensive.

I just don't see what Joe has, other than handspeed and work rate, two attributes that, I see as off set by the fact that he wings wide with his head down.

Footwork? Hopkins
Defense? Hopkins
Ring Generalship? Hopkins
Power? Hopkins
Chin? Hopkins
Balance? Hopkins
Adaptability? Hopkins
Stamina? Call it even to give Joe something
Handspeed? Joe
Work Rate (ineffective for this fight) Joe
Corner? Hopkins

Bernard too complete a fighter. We'll see if he loses to the real opponent in here - Father Time. I don't see it, but time will tell.

Bring it the fuck on.

Again, I believe Joe Cortez is the WORST referee for this figth, and am still stimied that no one has protested.
D-MARV
Calzaghe will be roughed up, beat up, and prolly cut! Give me B HOP by late stoppage!

P.S
Calzaghe is no where near as good as Hopkins defensively
rusty_trombone
zags by ud. I have a feeling Hopkins will take the first 4 rounds of this fight off, just like the Taylor fights.

also, with a side of hopkins whining after the fight how he was robbed, and how the people know who won, regardless of how soundly joe beats him. "Larry, c'mon Larry, we all know who really won this fight. not only should i have won a split decision, but an 'ooononamous' one"
STEVENSKI
I should have expected it but Meth is on a X cum guzling* bender & we are still weeks away. Meth don't peak too early we want you around when the party is over.

I will be rooting for Hopkins as I have always liked him (bar his girlish whining after his losses to Taylor) but think Joe has what it takes to win & win quite convincingly.

Hopkins has been known to pull a rabbit out of his arse but Joe is no crackhead Tarver or welterweight DLH, not by a long shot.

*Note: Cum Guzzling is hands-down my favorite past time, so forgive me for trying to work it into just about every aspect of my everyday life, including boxing discussion.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Method @ Apr 9 2008, 07:47 PM) [snapback]385584[/snapback]
I expect him to be neutralized and executed.

that's classic. do you have a book of "Bernard Quotations"?
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Apr 9 2008, 05:39 PM) [snapback]385573[/snapback]
i dont think theres anyway this fight ends in a KO. but i think calzaghes workrate will be a problem for hopkins. think joe wins by ud



My thoughts exactly.
MarzB
Finally I get to discuss the strategy stuff with other fellow knowledgeable boxing fans. I'm personally so sick and tire of hearing of Cal's work rate.

I just saw the training video of Cal and save for one fighter, I wonder why certain trainers insist to stand in their normal stance (see Manny Stewart with Taylor for the Wright fight and now Enzo and Cal for this fight) while working the mitts if they're facing a fighter in an opposite stance. That said, I do respect Joe Cal but I think as mentioned by Meth in detail that Hopkins brings too many other intangibles that are often ignored to pull it out..

I've never seen the Bika fight. i'm going to check it out on youtube after I submit this but we've witnessed twice recently these intangibles are the way to beat these
VOLUME PUNCHING or the new term "tv friendly' fighters. The intangibles being "footwork" and positioning.

I don't care if Calazaghe threw 3000 punches, if he's not in position to land them, he has to change his plan up. The times I've seen Cal have to box(the Kessler fight), he's been decent but do even the most ardent Hop hater (Stevenski) think he could beat Hop in a a BOXING MATCH?? Thats the problem there, Hopkins "adjustments" are much more than Cal's even at the advanced age of 43. Every combo, punch, Hop has a counter for. You don't play a chess master in a chess match, the best you do is get them in a speed chess match. Too bad Hop is too smart to engage or 'trade for trade' like that.

So while his win over a "crackhead" is minimized, I guarantee "if" (because I do give Cal a chance) he wins, there will be another excuse for Calazaghe. "Who'd he beat? WBU stiffs and Jeff lacy??"

So no "ifs", "buts", etc. Hop adds one more to his legacy in a fight thats uneven at some points but climatic at others. Hop lands EASILY the cleaner more effective blows. Cal at some points lands volume punching on shoulders, back and otherwise rolled punches.

There will be some stand still points in teh fight where Hop will feint with his right hand lead and land a left hook (since Cal will expect right hand leads).
The Original MrFactor
I see it as similar to Hopkins/Taylor, Hopkins/Jones and beleive it or not Hopkins/DLH. The faster more active(TV friendly or whatever)guy will win more rounds. Hopkins has trouble with speed and activity. Hopkins likes to sit around and figure guys out. It worked against DLH because he could eventually jump in around the 4th round and take risks. He saw DLH couldnt hurt him, so he asserted himself and got the KO.

He had similar issues with Taylor and Jones, however, he asserted himself waaay to late in those fights. If Hopkins starts earlier against Calzaghe, he could actually win. However, and old dog aint gonna learn no new tricks. Hope I'm wrong as hell though...

I like Calzaghe by decision. I would love to see Hopkins win this one, because I still aint really a big Calzaghe fan. Wouldnt be surprised if it came out that he was a roider...
Method
QUOTE(MarzB @ Apr 10 2008, 01:07 AM) [snapback]385607[/snapback]
Finally I get to discuss the strategy stuff with other fellow knowledgeable boxing fans. I'm personally so sick and tire of hearing of Cal's work rate.

I just saw the training video of Cal and save for one fighter, I wonder why certain trainers insist to stand in their normal stance (see Manny Stewart with Taylor for the Wright fight and now Enzo and Cal for this fight) while working the mitts if they're facing a fighter in an opposite stance. That said, I do respect Joe Cal but I think as mentioned by Meth in detail that Hopkins brings too many other intangibles that are often ignored to pull it out..

I've never seen the Bika fight. i'm going to check it out on youtube after I submit this but we've witnessed twice recently these intangibles are the way to beat these
VOLUME PUNCHING or the new term "tv friendly' fighters. The intangibles being "footwork" and positioning.

I don't care if Calazaghe threw 3000 punches, if he's not in position to land them, he has to change his plan up. The times I've seen Cal have to box(the Kessler fight), he's been decent but do even the most ardent Hop hater (Stevenski) think he could beat Hop in a a BOXING MATCH?? Thats the problem there, Hopkins "adjustments" are much more than Cal's even at the advanced age of 43. Every combo, punch, Hop has a counter for. You don't play a chess master in a chess match, the best you do is get them in a speed chess match. Too bad Hop is too smart to engage or 'trade for trade' like that.

So while his win over a "crackhead" is minimized, I guarantee "if" (because I do give Cal a chance) he wins, there will be another excuse for Calazaghe. "Who'd he beat? WBU stiffs and Jeff lacy??"

So no "ifs", "buts", etc. Hop adds one more to his legacy in a fight thats uneven at some points but climatic at others. Hop lands EASILY the cleaner more effective blows. Cal at some points lands volume punching on shoulders, back and otherwise rolled punches.

There will be some stand still points in teh fight where Hop will feint with his right hand lead and land a left hook (since Cal will expect right hand leads).



Nice breakdown Marz. Unfortunately attempts will be made to belittle intelligent discussion with a comments as astute as activities that hit close to home for certain members (hey, if cum guzzling is your thing, I guess that's the first word that comes to mind).

Like you, Marz, I DO give Joe Cal a shot here, but again, like you, I just think Hopkins has the edge in everything except hand speed, which he has already proven he can neutralize. We'll see. Hopkins should take this, but if he can't pull the trigger, or of he can't take advantage of the flaws, the intangibles may not matter. You're dead on about stance. Yeah, Joe was able to box Kessler successfully, but Kessler just stood in front of him flat footed. When have se seen Joe in there with a guy that actually has better footwork? We haven't. A guy that will constantly show him angles and not just sit there in front of him trying to out gun him? We haven't. It's easy to sit there, head down winging punches with reckless abandon when your opponent digs in and stands there, flat-footed, trying to trade, or just covers up. But when the guy is not only more fundamentally/technically sound than YOU, AND all the opponents you've ever beat. When the guy has better footwork than you OR anyone you've ever beat. When the guy does NOT GET HIT CLEANLY, let alone hurt. When a gut has a better chin than you OR anyone you've ever beat. When the guy can match your stamina. I mean....you've got a fucking fight on your hands. This cat is talking KO. He's on fucking crack. Head down winging shots w reckless abandon got him floored AND hurt by Byron Mitchell. Joe didn't even know what the fuck hit him.
buford54
I agree...that was a good breakdown.
It is actually a much riskier fight for Joe than for Hops, as far as legacy.
Currently, Joe is resting on his fights w/ Lacy & Kessler, and the number of defenses that he made.
If he gets beaten by a 43 year-old Hopkins...it suddenly puts his entire record into perspective in that he allowed Frank Warren to put stiffs in front of him for the large majority of his career.
On the flip-side...if he wins, he beat a 43 year-old Hopkins who has "notoriously" given away rounds to more active fighters.

It really could be a lose/lose for Joe...while it's win/win for Hopkins.
He can always claim to have gotten old overnight if he loses. If he wins, he just took out another undefeated champion at the age of 43.
Tha Docta
i dont see why its so hard to believe that joes workrate is going to cause hops some problems. joe is a pretty intelligent fighter with a high workrate. he also has the speed advantage here. i keep thinking about the taylor fights where hopkins was clearly bothered by taylors energy even though the man lacked craft.

i think the only way hopkins wins this is by a very close decision. i think joes going to bank alot of the early rounds and will have more than enough stamina to hold off hopkins late rally. the man is old as hell and its going to show in this fight.

tony
Only one winner in this fight and would have been 10 years ago ( pity it wasn't ,has the age reason could not be used as an excuse ) Joe will win by clear decision ( unless dodgy judges ) better all round fighter and actually wants to fight for 36 minutes and not 6 !
JD
Rooting for Hop as I always do, but Calzaghe's handspeed, footspeed, workrate and stamina will be a problem for Bernard...the man is 43. Calzaghe does a lot of things that I think are overlooked because he looks somewhat unconventional...he always moves after punching, punches from angles, and constantly varies his attack - sure, he squares up at times and can flail, but he only tends to do that when he gets caught clean and woken up, which is not something you see that often. He then gets back to business the following round and resumes his varied attack.

Calzaghe by decision. I think that Bernard's tendency to come on late will be offset by Calzaghe's stamina...the dude is tireless. I just see this is a bad style matchup for Hopkins at this point of his career.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(JD @ Apr 10 2008, 11:14 AM) [snapback]385630[/snapback]
Rooting for Hop as I always do, but Calzaghe's handspeed, footspeed, workrate and stamina will be a problem for Bernard...the man is 43. Calzaghe does a lot of things that I think are overlooked because he looks somewhat unconventional...he always moves after punching, punches from angles, and constantly varies his attack - sure, he squares up at times and can flail, but he only tends to do that when he gets caught clean and woken up, which is not something you see that often. He then gets back to business the following round and resumes his varied attack.

Calzaghe by decision. I think that Bernard's tendency to come on late will be offset by Calzaghe's stamina...the dude is tireless. I just see this is a bad style matchup for Hopkins at this point of his career.



thats exactly my take on this fight. i think at this point in his career hopkins is going to have a tough time with high energy fighters like calzaghe. i was a calzaghe hater for a while but ive grown to accept that while the man is unconventional, he is a smart fighter that throws alot of punches. but i feel hopkins being 43yrs old is probably going to be the deciding factor in this fight.
Douchebag
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Apr 10 2008, 12:00 PM) [snapback]385633[/snapback]
thats exactly my take on this fight. i think at this point in his career hopkins is going to have a tough time with high energy fighters like calzaghe. i was a calzaghe hater for a while but ive grown to accept that while the man is unconventional, he is a smart fighter that throws alot of punches. but i feel hopkins being 43yrs old is probably going to be the deciding factor in this fight.


Winky has a high workrate and is a better pure boxer than Zaghe and you see what happened in that fight. The thing with Taylor is that he is very strong so B-Hop could not outmusle him. Hopkins is not going to have that issue with Zaghe. Something tells me the Hopkins' rough-house tactics are really going bother Zaghe who has fought in his home country for his entire career and has had the benefit of the officials and refs to kind of cater to his style.
Method
QUOTE
I think that Bernard's tendency to come on late will be offset by Calzaghe's stamina...the dude is tireless. I just see this is a bad style matchup for Hopkins


Obviously agree that the late-rally tendencies of Hopkins will be offset here. There's gonna be no "take him into deep water" shit here. I just think Bernard's gonna prove the more complete fighter from start to finish.
MarzB
QUOTE(tony @ Apr 10 2008, 09:45 AM) [snapback]385627[/snapback]
Only one winner in this fight and would have been 10 years ago ( pity it wasn't ,has the age reason could not be used as an excuse ) Joe will win by clear decision ( unless dodgy judges ) better all round fighter and actually wants to fight for 36 minutes and not 6 !



Can you provide your definition of "all around" fighter? As I mentioned earlier, even the most ardent Hopkins Hater has to acknowledge that Hopkins has many styles/abilities to adjust.

I've seen all of Cal's fights from Mitchell on(save for the Bika fight). He primarily has an aggressive/move forward style and a conventional boxing style. Thats it.

Hopkins on the other hand can do both of those in addition to fighting backwards (see the Winky fight), he can still get on his bike, he can play the counter-puncher, the defensive specialist or the smootherer. A great fight to look at all these styles demonstrated would be the second Echols fight...

Another thing can someone point to me anytime that Hop has just been dominated?? Not Jones, not Taylor. I've never seen his first fight but I don't think that counts anyways but no one has ever just dominated Hopkins so why suddenly does he "get old overnight" is beyond me.

Another factor is while Cal can box, his strength is in his volume punching agreed?? When he throws those punches, they tend to be looping punches which leaves him very open for straight shots thats usually the basis of 'Nards attack. Since its generally agreed that Hopkins is still one of the best defensive fighters out there, why does anyone think based on HARD EVIDENCE that suddenly he collapses and folds?

Do the guys that feel this way really think that 'Nard hasn't prepared or isn't prepared for a VOLUME PUNCHER? You guys think he's sparring with guys who are just there to go __ rounds not to replicate what Cal does in anyway?? If I know Nasim like he's been in the past, they've got Cal's game plan(s) picked apart like Bellicheck has the opposing teams plays videotaped,lol.

They know his hand position once he throws this type of combination and what he's open for. They know where he tends to land and the fact he's off balance lots of times and where to move to exploit that even more. Trust me, I've spoken with him how he breaks down fighters and it's brilliant. All Hop needs to do is (no pun) Execute it. I bring that up to say, the only way Hop gets dominated is if he comes in unprepared which you can pretty much throw out of the window because that doesn't happen with him..
MarzB
On a side note, I hope HBO over the weekend does a "side by side" interview with the two combatants.

They've gotten away from that.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(MarzB @ Apr 10 2008, 12:57 PM) [snapback]385639[/snapback]
Can you provide your definition of "all around" fighter? As I mentioned earlier, even the most ardent Hopkins Hater has to acknowledge that Hopkins has many styles/abilities to adjust.

I've seen all of Cal's fights from Mitchell on(save for the Bika fight). He primarily has an aggressive/move forward style and a conventional boxing style. Thats it.

Hopkins on the other hand can do both of those in addition to fighting backwards (see the Winky fight), he can still get on his bike, he can play the counter-puncher, the defensive specialist or the smootherer. A great fight to look at all these styles demonstrated would be the second Echols fight...

Another thing can someone point to me anytime that Hop has just been dominated?? Not Jones, not Taylor. I've never seen his first fight but I don't think that counts anyways but no one has ever just dominated Hopkins so why suddenly does he "get old overnight" is beyond me.

Another factor is while Cal can box, his strength is in his volume punching agreed?? When he throws those punches, they tend to be looping punches which leaves him very open for straight shots thats usually the basis of 'Nards attack. Since its generally agreed that Hopkins is still one of the best defensive fighters out there, why does anyone think based on HARD EVIDENCE that suddenly he collapses and folds?

Do the guys that feel this way really think that 'Nard hasn't prepared or isn't prepared for a VOLUME PUNCHER? You guys think he's sparring with guys who are just there to go __ rounds not to replicate what Cal does in anyway?? If I know Nasim like he's been in the past, they've got Cal's game plan(s) picked apart like Bellicheck has the opposing teams plays videotaped,lol.

They know his hand position once he throws this type of combination and what he's open for. They know where he tends to land and the fact he's off balance lots of times and where to move to exploit that even more. Trust me, I've spoken with him how he breaks down fighters and it's brilliant. All Hop needs to do is (no pun) Execute it. I bring that up to say, the only way Hop gets dominated is if he comes in unprepared which you can pretty much throw out of the window because that doesn't happen with him..



are you saying hopkins will be able to fight at a high level forever? the man has bucked the trend so far but father time always catches up at some point. the way you describe joe it would seem that he just goes out there throwing a ton of wild looping punches. the man is obviously skilled, and so is hopkins. hopkins wont fold, i dont think ive seen anyone in this thread mention him folding or collapsing. i think joes just gonna have too much energy for hopkins to win a decision, but thats just my take. ive been wrong before.

winky is a blown up 154lb fighter. i think he looked terrible with the extra weight and dont put too much emphasis on that fight.

The CEO
On the studying side...if Bernard and his team have done their homework and want to take a risk....there IS a chance Hopkins will time him from the get go, actively counter to the head with authority, and hurts Calzaghe a few times early...go ahead and make it a war.....Nard's got a chin....I don't think the Calzaghe squad would be expecting that....

Hurt him early and finish him in the 8th....

They probably won't do that....but hey...I think it sounds like an alright plan...lol
BigG
It's going to be interesting. Hopkins movement and countering is gonna cause Joe some problems and you will definitely see Joes activity drop....I just dont know how this will go. I don't think Calzaghe is as quick athletic as Taylor is and I think thats what really troubled Hopkins.
buford54
Hopkins doesn't really take people into deep water simply by letting them punch themselves out.
He lets them do their work for a few rounds to feel them out, then he starts countering the hell out of them. They get into a rhythm because he doesn't fight back, then he takes them out of it, by landing clean shots, and tying them up on the inside...fighting dirty, etc.
That's what frustrates people and makes them drop their output. It's not that Joe will be all tired from punching. He'll start to 2nd guess himself every time he tries to charge in, knowing that Hops will have an answer for what he does.

Taking someone to deep water isn't just letting them get tired. It's confusing them, taking their confidence, and then drowning them.
That's what Hops does so well. He takes your game away, then makes you play his game...which you don't know very well.
Mean Mister Mustard
There are a lot of varialbes to dicsuss in this fight and one of them that I think we should delve into is Joe's adaptability. Certainly Calzaghe has above average IQ, when one plan doesn't work he can switch to another and also change gears. If Calzaghe has a masters degree in boxing then Hopkins has a PhD. Now, if boxing IQ was all it took to win fights then Hopkins would be undefeated. Taylor is no ring general but thanks to his strenght and power he was able to make Hopkins hesitant to go on the attack.

With that being said, Taylor is a heavyhanded guy who throws his punches at high speed. Joe is also fast but not as big a hitter as Taylor. We know that if he loads up on his punches he can punch well but the point remains, he will never have the power of Taylor. So for those who are saying Joe will win because Hopkins could not dominate Taylor, better switch to another comparison.

Again Calzaghe is an intelligent fighter, but other than to throw punches in bunches what else can he do? Can he step back and counter you all night with a right hook or left hand? Can he jab you to death? It seems to me he is a bit like RJJ, in that he relies on his speed, athleticism and volume to win. I am pretty sure there's more to it than that but that's not how it appears. When plan A was not working against Kessler plan B was simply to throw more punches. Against Lacyall he did was overwhelm him with activity. He can do so thank's to his activiy but when that does not work what else can he do? Look at a guy like Juan Manuel Marquez against Barrera, he took a few rounds off and then found out that he could set up his opponent with right hands by feinting with the left hook. Then when he had Barerra hesitating he would lead with the left hook. Guys like Mayweather and Hopkins have shown performances where they continually hit a guy with the same punch which means they have done their homework or noticed something in the ring and are able to continually exploit it, like the great ones do

Calzaghe, like I said before, has shown no such performance. That doesn't mean he's not good, hell maybe his speed and volume punching is all he needs to win. But it will be interesting to see what Plan B will be against Hopkins.
Method
QUOTE(MarzB @ Apr 10 2008, 12:57 PM) [snapback]385639[/snapback]
Can you provide your definition of "all around" fighter? As I mentioned earlier, even the most ardent Hopkins Hater has to acknowledge that Hopkins has many styles/abilities to adjust.

I've seen all of Cal's fights from Mitchell on(save for the Bika fight). He primarily has an aggressive/move forward style and a conventional boxing style. Thats it.

Hopkins on the other hand can do both of those in addition to fighting backwards (see the Winky fight), he can still get on his bike, he can play the counter-puncher, the defensive specialist or the smotherer. A great fight to look at all these styles demonstrated would be the second Echols fight...

Another thing can someone point to me anytime that Hop has just been dominated?? Not Jones, not Taylor. I've never seen his first fight but I don't think that counts anyways but no one has ever just dominated Hopkins so why suddenly does he "get old overnight" is beyond me.

Another factor is while Cal can box, his strength is in his volume punching agreed?? When he throws those punches, they tend to be looping punches which leaves him very open for straight shots thats usually the basis of 'Nards attack. Since its generally agreed that Hopkins is still one of the best defensive fighters out there, why does anyone think based on HARD EVIDENCE that suddenly he collapses and folds?

Do the guys that feel this way really think that 'Nard hasn't prepared or isn't prepared for a VOLUME PUNCHER? You guys think he's sparring with guys who are just there to go __ rounds not to replicate what Cal does in anyway?? If I know Nasim like he's been in the past, they've got Cal's game plan(s) picked apart like Bellicheck has the opposing teams plays videotaped,lol.

They know his hand position once he throws this type of combination and what he's open for. They know where he tends to land and the fact he's off balance lots of times and where to move to exploit that even more. Trust me, I've spoken with him how he breaks down fighters and it's brilliant. All Hop needs to do is (no pun) Execute it. I bring that up to say, the only way Hop gets dominated is if he comes in unprepared which you can pretty much throw out of the window because that doesn't happen with him..


Marz, again, airtight analysis. You should check out the Calzaghe/Brewer fight. If Brewer was complete a fighter as Hopkins, he would have either won a UD or stopped him late. Charles Brewer landed that straight, jail-house Philly right hand on Joe in the 7th round and had him on motherfucking queer street. He just couldn't finish him plus, as we all know, Brewer stands square as a fucking block, and is chinny his damn self. But it's sort of a watered down rated G version of what a Hop (firing on all cylinders) would do to Joe. I guess what remains to be seen is whether Bernard is firing on all cylinders. I personally think his team and he are taking this serious enough that he will be, but we'll see.

Regardless, I agree with your analysis 100% Marz. That's doesn't mean victory is foregone. It's not. But it's as accurate an analysis as I would write myself.

Not sure if you subscribe to Ring Magazine, but Joe Calzaghe recently penned an autobiography, and the most recent issue (or 2nd most recent issue) of Ring Mag featured an excerpt from the book. Coincidentally, it was an excerpt where Joe talks about the Brewer fight and how tough it was and how hurt he was during the fight. Brewer just didn't have the overall game to bring it all together. He left too much of himself in the Philly gyms.
Sandokan32
I haven´t posted here in a long time, but I´m really pumped 4 dis fight, so here´s my prediction: Hopkins UD. And I´m rooting for Hops.

From the very beginning, B-Hop knew this will be a tough fight. He knows about Calzaghe´s high volume punching and speed. Because of Calzaghe´s apparent advantages, Hops brought back Mackie Shilstone, and I´m guessing the whole purpose of bringing back Mackie is for improving Hops stamina (which aint bad at all for someone who is 43, but insufficient for the task), and strength.

Hopkins has the Boxing IQ to neutralize Calzaghe, but people have doubts about his phisical limitations at age 43, against an energetic and fast fighter. B-Hop has to make sure that his body will respond.
By fightnight, Hops must have a significant weight advantage over Calzaghe. His weight at fightnight was 182 against Tarver. If he´s 185-187 for this fight, he will have the power to seriously hurt Cal.

He need this advantage, because he has to make every punch count. Each time he sees an opening, the counters need to be thrown with bad intentions. He cant counter just to score, but to hurt. Full force counters.

Improving his workrate is a must. We know Hops can reduce Calzaghe´s output, but he need to thow 20% to 30% more punches if he wants to impress the judges.

I´m sure Team Hopkins have been taking notes from the two fights with Taylor, and have designed a strategy partially based on Hopkins mistakes in those fights.

As for Calzaghe, I don´t think we´ll see anything different. He´s undefeated. If it´s not broken, don´t fix it. So basically, the Calzaghe that Hops will face, will be the same we all know. But I think we will see a more agressive Hopkins in this fight, more willing to engage.





buford54
The other thing that pushes me towards Hopkins is that he is too calculating as a person to take a fight which he is not 100% certain he can win.
As big a Hopkins fan as I am, he is certainly to blame, at least partially, for some fights not happening...and I think that those were fights that he didn't really want.

Jones/Hopkins II...don't think either of them wanted that fight. They would have worked out the money otherwise.
Hopkins/Toney...fell through. Again, I think they both knew it was a risky fight, and not worth it to them.

I really believe that if he is taking this fight, he is 100% certain that he can win...and he takes everything into consideraton. He'll have considered the volumes, stamina, power...everything that Joe brings to the table, and he either believes that he has an answer for all of it...or he thinks it will be too much for him but there is too much money involved.
Method
I can tell you first hand from being in camp that Team Hopkins was PUMPED for the Toney fight. I'l can go one further and tell you that, according to Naazim, Bouie and Bernard, James Toney was someone that Bernard ALWAYS wanted to fight.

Now, can I say with 100% certainty that they're telling the truth? No. I'm not in the guy's head. However, when Naazim told me the story of the proposed fight with Toney at Cruiserweight the way he put it was along the lines of Bernard calling Naaz and being like "Naazim, you'll never guess who is finally gonna fight me. You said they would never fight me. And I always told you I'd get the fight some day" James Toney was who they were obviously talking about.

The problem with the Toney fight is that Hopkins had that cock-eyed promo contract with King, where King got fucking half of everything. The fight bought agreement was signed. Problem was King renegged on the numbers on the 11th hour, the day before the official press conf to announce the fight.

....as for the RJ thing. I have nothing to add either way. It is what it is. Two big egos. Neither guy will ever budge.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(MarzB @ Apr 10 2008, 05:07 AM) [snapback]385607[/snapback]
The times I've seen Cal have to box(the Kessler fight), he's been decent but do even the most ardent Hop hater (Stevenski) think he could beat Hop in a a BOXING MATCH??


Hop hater?

Where did I say that?

Here
QUOTE
I will be rooting for Hopkins as I have always liked him (bar his girlish whining after his losses to Taylor) but think Joe has what it takes to win & win quite convincingly.

Hopkins has been known to pull a rabbit out of his arse but Joe is no crackhead Tarver or welterweight DLH, not by a long shot.
Where is the hate here? I lost a lot of respect for X after his carry on post Taylor fights but I have always liked him & if you look back I was one of the few qwho said he would humiliate Tarver.

BTW Meth nice edit still on the sherm I see with comments like this. Where has Hopkins recently shown he can throw 1000 punches in a fight?

QUOTE
When the guy can match your stamina. I mean....you've got a fucking fight on your hands.




PR316
Even at 43, Hopkins isn't an easy target to land cleanly on. What Joe has going for him here is his hand speed and movement. I wouldn't compare his movement to a Robinson or a Jones, but he does have pretty quick feet in being able to get out of the way of the incoming after getting his punches off. We all know that Joe doesn't always land. That doesn't deter him from throwing though. To do that, Hopkins is going to have to freeze him in his tracks the way Kessler did with his uppercuts, and basically hit Joe hard enough to make him stop.


Alot of people often forget that while Hopkins was able to outbox Trinidad, he also had the power to keep him at bay. At the bell of the 2nd round, B-Hop stunned Tito with a right hand and it was clear to see Tito was hurt pretty good from that one. When he got Tito's respect, it was all down hill from there. If he can catch Joe with something really good that leaves an impression, then thats the way Hopkins can get this guy to not throw as much and make him think twice about throwing so many shots. Calzaghe is no puncher. He's no real threat to hurt Hopkins and I actually think that will be good for him in that a fighter who doesn't commit to his punches often stays on the backfoot and just looks to touch you, which is what Joe does. An inside fight favors Hopkins. Even though Joe is fast and has lived on the inside for basically his whole career, he has never fought anyone who can shorten or straighten his punches to adjust accordingly to the target the way Hopkins can. Remains to be seen if at 43 Hopkins can fight at the same pace he did on September 29th 2001, just as it remains to be seen how Joe adapts to the heavier weight. The more Joe keeps on the back foot, jab, move to side, counter the counters, and keep Hops turning, the better for him.


The styles here indicate a very awkward fight. Hopkins will probably look to smother and keep it rough and use his mauling/smothering tactics to find the gaps for his punches. Joe certainly figures he's faster and has better legs at this point, so he'll probably be aggressive but from the outside, and tie up Hopkins when he gets close the way he did with Lacy when he constantly held to prevent Jeff from really getting off. In terms of clean punching, it wouldn't surprise me the least bit to see Hopkins land the better punches. But I think in terms round by round activity, Joe will land a little bit more, more often than not.

I see a chess match early, with both guys watching the other and jabbing. Joe will start to panick a bit and then pick it up by the middle rounds and we'll probably see alot of back and forth swings in momentum in a sorta similar way to Pacquiao-Marquez 2. The championship rounds will be very important here. Whom ever is able to grab most if not all, will likely be the winner.


I like Joe by close decision, but I won't be making any bets. Hopkins is too dangerous to bet against.
MarzB
There are some great points mentioned here. I wish I could have responded to this earlier while reading it but I was in training. Anyways..

k Calzaghe is as quick athletic as Taylor is and I think thats what really troubled Hopkins.


Good point, contrary to what 'Nard himself may say I think he gave Jermain a bit too much respect because as you described, he respected his power and ability to recover from his terrible footwork and balance. I'm sure now though having seen the Pavlik fights he wish he wouldn't have fought that way. Btw, I thought the first fight he won and the second was a draw.

He lets them do their work for a few rounds to feel them out, then he starts countering the hell out of them. They get into a rhythm because he doesn't fight back, then he takes them out of it, by landing clean shots, and tying them up on the inside...fighting dirty, etc.
That's what frustrates people and makes them drop their output


Buford, you must boxed or have boxed at some point. Thats a great point and thats something a lot of professionals don't even realize. On that note, forget what Calazaghe says, he's NOT STUPID. He may talk that crap about going and "TAKING IT" from Nard but I guarantee he'll be cautious before he attempts to unload..


With that being said, Taylor is a heavyhanded guy who throws his punches at high speed. Joe is also fast but not as big a hitter as Taylor. We know that if he loads up on his punches he can punch well but the point remains, he will never have the power of Taylor. So for those who are saying Joe will win because Hopkins could not dominate Taylor, better switch to another comparison.


Excellent point..

Meth, Charles Brewer is that dude if I'm not mistaken that had that "rock'em, sock'em" drag out brawl with Echols on ESPN I think after the Hop fight right? You're telling me that dude put it on Cal,lol?? Wow!!! I recall him being pretty crude. Unfortunately I don't get Ring Magazine becaues I can't find anwyhere that sells it. Inf fact I remember way back when you mentioned during the Hop and DLH fight that they had an entire issue dedicated to that fight and it was a good issue. I don't know WHY I haven't tried to get it online but I'd love to read that story you're mentioning.


That said enough of the "pro" Hopkins stuff, I'll be fair and say what Joe can do to unseat Hop. I simply do believe though that Hop has more tools at his disposal than Joe to execute his plan. But Joe to me has to keep Hop off balance not only with movements but with feints, angles and occasional flurry here and there. He's going to have to change up the timing on his punches which is something i've rarely seen him do. He's going to have to mix up things completely, box, flurry, hold, circle, counter, etc.

I pretty much described damn near every boxing technique out there but I think to beat Hop you do have the throw the entire blender at him. You gotta keep him guessing. Honestly, I think Hop is hard as hell to hit (even Jermain Taylor said it clearly) let alone knockout. so Cal needs to get that knockout the old man schit out of his mind and jsut focus his plan and let it come. If he can do all that, he can beat hop.

But unfortunately most fighters fight in patterns and comfortable rhythms and I don't see Joe deviating from that. But I'm trying to be fair and offer my take what he has to do. Should he win despite all that though (I don't think he will). I'll be the first to give him credit, NO EXCUSES ("HOP WAS OLD").

BrutalBodyShots
I will be rooting for Hopkins BIG TIME in this fight...

But I see Calzaghe taking it by close decision.

In my view for Hopkins to actually be awarded the decision he's going to have to beat Calzaghe 8-4 in rounds. Even if Hopkins in most views takes the fight 7-5 in rounds (like the Taylor fights in a way) IMO he's going to lose a decision to Calzaghe who's going to have his hands moving more and come forward more in the fight. Not that I think that's the "right" call (just like in the Taylor fights) but that's how I see it playing out. That said, I don't think Hopkins keeps Calzaghe from winning more than 4 rounds at this stage of the game. I REALLY hope he does... I would love for Hopkins to take this fight. I'll probably throw a little cash on Hopkins to win just because that will make it all that more exciting come fight night since I'm going to be rooting for the guy anyway.

Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(MarzB @ Apr 10 2008, 11:57 AM) [snapback]385639[/snapback]
A great fight to look at all these styles demonstrated would be the second Echols fight..

A closet classic, IMO...
Bhopreign
Hopkins isnt worried about Joe's workrate, because either Hop will be all the way outside or all the way in. Controlling distance is the name of the game, doesnt make sense for a fighter to waste punches when Hop isnt in range so Joe wont be throwing punches then. I hope Joe comes forward and tries to do what he did with Lacy, mark my words, he will more than likely get hurt trying that.
kidbazooka1
This fight could go either way but I hope Hopkins beats the crap out of Calzaghe.

Hopkins by the decision but it won't be easy.
tony
QUOTE(kidbazooka1 @ Apr 11 2008, 12:14 AM) [snapback]385685[/snapback]
This fight could go either way but I hope Hopkins beats the crap out of Calzaghe.

Hopkins by the decision but it won't be easy.

Y WOULD THAT BE ?
Method
QUOTE
Meth, Charles Brewer is that dude if I'm not mistaken that had that "rock'em, sock'em" drag out brawl with Echols on ESPN I think after the Hop fight right? You're telling me that dude put it on Cal,lol?? Wow!!! I recall him being pretty crude. Unfortunately I don't get Ring Magazine becaues I can't find anwyhere that sells it. Inf fact I remember way back when you mentioned during the Hop and DLH fight that they had an entire issue dedicated to that fight and it was a good issue. I don't know WHY I haven't tried to get it online but I'd love to read that story you're mentioning.


Yeah. That's him. Im not saying he "put it ON Calzag", but I am saying he he was able to land that jail-house Philly right straight down the pike, and at one point when he did it in the 7th round, he had Joe fucked up.

Marz, they did do a Ring Mag Special on Hop/DLH, and it was a great issue, but if you're looking into archived gems, find the Ring Special they did on Hopkins/Tony. Man, that issue had me jones'in for the fight. Thing was, the fight had already been scrapped and both guys moved on by the time Ring got their shit rolled out, but that was a great issue. A ton of in depth coverage. 4 of the 5 experts (fighters/trainers) picked Hopkins to beat James at Cruiser. I think he would have been too complete for him as well, but whatever....never happened so no point to go any further with it.

As for Next Sat, I mean, it's a fucking pick em. On paper Hopkins should win for all the reasons we listed, but the question marks are whether Bernard can still get off and/or pull thr trigger anymore. Im thinkin/hopin he has this one performance left in him, as I am one of the few of the ilk that the Wright fight couldn't have told us what we needed to know based on the styles match up (who the fuck looks good vs. Wright).

We'll see. I laid $ on Bernard back when he was +235. He's come in to ~ +190 now, and I won't lay on that, but if it widens out at +250 or +300 (which I doubt, unless Saturday of the fight all the Europeans go crazy), then I will lay more on the Philly guy.

Every fight fan has their preferences. Of course I like to see guys get KTFO, but I am into the nuances and subtleties of the sport, so chess matches are my thing. This is na intriguing styles matchup.

Almost the ilk of a Paq/Marquez, where you have one guy that is just an offesnive machine, and another guy thats a technical/counterpunching specialist. Thing is, Hops has better D than Marq, so don;'t expect him to get all fucked up like that.

BTW, don't discount the fact that we may likely see Joe Cal cut from a clash of heads. that could throw an additional curve ball into the fight. Would certainly add to the drama.

Still pissed about Cortez.
Imperius3
I agree with just about everything that has already been said so I won't repeat it.

To sum it up, Calzaghe has never faced a fighter like Hopkins before. Hopkins has seen just about every style out there. I believe Hopkins will cut Calzaghe's punch output in half and then some. Hopkins' defense, movement, and brains is going to flummox Calzaghe to no end. Calzaghe will have trouble finding his rhythm. There will be moments in this fight where Calzaghe won't know what to do. The more Calzaghe throws and misses, the more he will be stuck with hard clean punches.

Hopkins by decision, about 8-4.
tony
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Apr 11 2008, 05:08 AM) [snapback]385691[/snapback]
I agree with just about everything that has already been said so I won't repeat it.

To sum it up, Calzaghe has never faced a fighter like Hopkins before. Hopkins has seen just about every style out there. I believe Hopkins will cut Calzaghe's punch output in half and then some. Hopkins' defense, movement, and brains is going to flummox Calzaghe to no end. Calzaghe will have trouble finding his rhythm. There will be moments in this fight where Calzaghe won't know what to do. The more Calzaghe throws and misses, the more he will be stuck with hard clean punches.

Hopkins by decision, about 8-4.

After reading this thread i can not believe how many people totally underestimate Joe,the reality is Hopkins as never been in with a fighter like Joe and on April 19th this will be proved.
Imperius3
QUOTE(tony @ Apr 11 2008, 07:00 AM) [snapback]385694[/snapback]
After reading this thread i can not believe how many people totally underestimate Joe,the reality is Hopkins as never been in with a fighter like Joe and on April 19th this will be proved.


Joe's a great fighter no doubt. I just think he is in with a better fighter. Hopkins has more versatility and lateral movement than a Lacy or a Kessler.
tony
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Apr 11 2008, 07:06 AM) [snapback]385695[/snapback]
Joe's a great fighter no doubt. I just think he is in with a better fighter. Hopkins has more versatility and lateral movement than a Lacy or a Kessler.

The lateral movement that Hopkins uses, is actually reserved to backing away from is opponent, most of whom that i have seen are afraid to go in and take a punch to land one but this will not happen against Calzaghe who is prepared to take a punch to land more of is own and Hopkins will have to throw more punches than he is capable of to keep Joe away.This is a clear points victory for Joe.
buford54
I don't see how people coming to the conclusion that Hopkins has more skill, but Joe's workrate, stamina and power might prove too much for a 43-year old, is underestimating Joe.

Realistically, how would it be underestimating someone to feel that they are going to lose, or potentially even win against the former undisputed, longest reigning middleweight champ, who jumped up two divisions and dominated the champ at light-heavy?
I don't see that as underestimating. Most of the posts here seem to conclude that skill and experience would favor Hopkins, but Joe may be able to overwhelm him at this point in his game.

And if it is underestimating, perhaps it wouldn't happen if Joe had taken more than two risky fights in his entire career.

He gets credit for Lacy and Kessler. And, he gets credit for finally being willing to leave his backyard to fight someone that isn't a mandatory challenger for his fringe-belt. It's too bad that he's waited until his "final two fights" to start taking challenges.
The CEO
To clarify where I stand....I'm rooting for Hopkins and picking Calzaghe by close decision.

As buford54 just pointed out....Joe gets some credit...but being honest and objective...his career and his greatest victories aren't the stuff of legend.....all 3 of them came against B fighters....a Lacy, a Kessler, and a past it Eubank earlier in his career...

There's two, obvious, adverse problems for Calzaghe in this fight....he's never fought away from home....and he's never fought a Bernard Hopkins.

How Joe's gonna react to these is not written in stone...he's gonna have to be in the zone with blinders on for a full 12...against a most hardened and savvy veteran.

and if he does sneak past Hopkins like I think he will....I'm tellin' ya...I won't be overly impressed.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.