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Bhopreign
Funny how most say they don't want to see another fight between Floydan Oscar but remember plainly after the first fight how many said it was close and even some had the audacity to say maybe even Osar edged it out. Wow, if people felt like that surely they would want to see how a close fight plays out the second time right? Fact is the reason many say they don't want to see this fight again is because i reality the fight wasn't really close and my scorecard of 8-4 and even a possible 9-3 is what many of Floyd's detractors probably saw even though as soon as the fight was over they insisted it was close, well Floyd called your bluff and said let's do it again, only now the truth comes out of how many felt the first time.
FenderDG3
QUOTE(Bhopreign @ May 5 2008, 04:40 PM) [snapback]388648[/snapback]
Funny how most say they don't want to see another fight between Floydan Oscar but remember plainly after the first fight how many said it was close and even some had the audacity to say maybe even Osar edged it out. Wow, if people felt like that surely they would want to see how a close fight plays out the second time right? Fact is the reason many say they don't want to see this fight again is because i reality the fight wasn't really close and my scorecard of 8-4 and even a possible 9-3 is what many of Floyd's detractors probably saw even though as soon as the fight was over they insisted it was close, well Floyd called your bluff and said let's do it again, only now the truth comes out of how many felt the first time.


I don't think that is a very fair assessment to call a lot of people on the forum hypocrites. The people you are referring to were caught up in the emotion of the big event, and that is something that everybody is guilty of. I'd have to go back and check the older threads, but I'm pretty sure after people had some time to watch the fight a second time and truly evaluate the fight that, that was the point when people began saying that a rematch was unnecessary. So to throw around words like hypocrisy, audacity, and appalled (from another thread you started) I think is unfair. I know I've only been on here for about 7 months or so, and I don't post a ton of posts, but if I were you I'd wait a while to get a true feel for these message boards before you start to throw around words like that. BTW I also noticed that you never replied to Hype's comment in your other thread (that your were appalled by FH) when he said, "I think I'm more appalled with the fact that Hopkins let a white boy beat him...but that's a different story." what gives, you weren't appalled that Hopkins "let a white boy beat him"??
Bhopreign
QUOTE(FenderDG3 @ May 5 2008, 05:08 PM) [snapback]388651[/snapback]
I don't think that is a very fair assessment to call a lot of people on the forum hypocrites. The people you are referring to were caught up in the emotion of the big event, and that is something that everybody is guilty of. I'd have to go back and check the older threads, but I'm pretty sure after people had some time to watch the fight a second time and truly evaluate the fight that, that was the point when people began saying that a rematch was unnecessary. So to throw around words like hypocrisy, audacity, and appalled (from another thread you started) I think is unfair. I know I've only been on here for about 7 months or so, and I don't post a ton of posts, but if I were you I'd wait a while to get a true feel for these message boards before you start to throw around words like that. BTW I also noticed that you never replied to Hype's comment in your other thread (that your were appalled by FH) when he said, "I think I'm more appalled with the fact that Hopkins let a white boy beat him...but that's a different story." what gives, you weren't appalled that Hopkins "let a white boy beat him"??


Again its really only to those who said they scored the fight a draw and that Oscar won and some said it was very close. You would think people would want to see a fight again in which they said was close, only makes sense. Am I appalled for Hop letting a white boy beat him? Somewhat, I get upset with Hop myself alot because he isnt more aggressive but thats because he wants to, at his age, have enough in the tank to finish strong. Surely I thought after the first Taylor fight he would start faster in the second, but no, but I still understood his reason for fighting the same way, so yea he upsets me some, Cal did what he had to do to win and that was outwork Hop, no matter how it looked.
KookedKrack
yea i think people do get caught up in the emotion of the event that and hbo fucking cheer leading oscar's every fucking move
STEVENSKI
On reflection I thought PBF edged the fight by 7-4-1 which could be 8-4 or 7-5. A close but clear win. Does it warrant a rematch? Probably not but the $$ are there & they will dance again & piss off every true fight fan by doing so.
JD
It was a 7-5 / 8-4 fight that was both uneventful, and lacking in general entertainment value; in fact, the Judah fight was far more competitive in my opinion. Oscar was as good as he could have been, and it was not good enough...with the amount of MEANINGFUL fights at 147 for him, there is no reason for Floyd to fight the rematch...other then money of course.

Personally, I would like to see him fight someone who is highly ranked at welterweight...the weight where he campaigns as a champion. Oddly enough, by the time he fights Oscar, it will be right around 2 years since he has fought a top welterweight.
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(JD @ May 5 2008, 08:56 PM) [snapback]388666[/snapback]
It was a 7-5 / 8-4 fight that was both uneventful, and lacking in general entertainment value; in fact, the Judah fight was far more competitive in my opinion. Oscar was as good as he could have been, and it was not good enough...with the amount of MEANINGFUL fights at 147 for him, there is no reason for Floyd to fight the rematch...other then money of course.

Personally, I would like to see him fight someone who is highly ranked at welterweight...the weight where he campaigns as a champion. Oddly enough, by the time he fights Oscar, it will be right around 2 years since he has fought a top welterweight.



Very good points JD I couldnt agree more. I thought the first fight was close but I still had Floyd winning. I dont think Oscar made it that close, it was Floyd that made it close by just doing enough to win. Like I said earlier I think now that Floyd knows what to expect from Oscar, and judging by how Oscar looked against Forbes, Floyd should win this fight easy.

I really could care less about this fight. We saw it once already and it wasnt that good the first time. I want to see Floyd fight one of the top guys.
Byrd Man
I'm appalled at this thread.
JD
QUOTE(Boxingjunkie @ May 5 2008, 11:17 PM) [snapback]388677[/snapback]
Very good points JD I couldnt agree more. I thought the first fight was close but I still had Floyd winning. I dont think Oscar made it that close, it was Floyd that made it close by just doing enough to win. Like I said earlier I think now that Floyd knows what to expect from Oscar, and judging by how Oscar looked against Forbes, Floyd should win this fight easy.

I really could care less about this fight. We saw it once already and it wasnt that good the first time. I want to see Floyd fight one of the top guys.


After the first fight, I remember thinking I wanted to see a rematch...but it is going to be 18 months later, and my most recent look at Oscar tells me that he is sliding down the slippery slope called your mid-30's. He looked slower, easier to hit, and had less snap on his punches. Add to that the improvement of the division and continued development of Cotto along with the bounceback of Margarito...and I think the winner of their mid-Summer matchup makes for a MUCH more interesting opponent.
Eaner0919
QUOTE(Bhopreign @ May 5 2008, 04:40 PM) [snapback]388648[/snapback]
Funny how most say they don't want to see another fight between Floydan Oscar but remember plainly after the first fight how many said it was close and even some had the audacity to say maybe even Osar edged it out. Wow, if people felt like that surely they would want to see how a close fight plays out the second time right? Fact is the reason many say they don't want to see this fight again is because i reality the fight wasn't really close and my scorecard of 8-4 and even a possible 9-3 is what many of Floyd's detractors probably saw even though as soon as the fight was over they insisted it was close, well Floyd called your bluff and said let's do it again, only now the truth comes out of how many felt the first time.

just because a fight is close doesn't mean we want to watch a rematch of it. Their first fight was dull. Even in the crowd live this fight was a snooze.
Big Slim Sweet
If there were no other worthy opponents for Mayweather right now I'd be alright with the rematch, but the division is so loaded with other contenders deserving of a shot that it makes this farcicle money-grab all the more *appalling*.
torvix2000
Floyd and Oscar are doing what they want to do. They are doing it good. We don't have to question them.

But, as fans, can we do something? Yes we can!

How about ranking Floyd Mayweather as only the #5 P4P and then posting the list at every boxing site, magazines, etc. etc... That's the only way we can "force" him to fight every "best" out there, if there are some.
and the NEW
I only had Mayweather edging the fight 7-5.

The reason I did not want to see a rematch whatsoever, is Mayweather could have done a LOT better and should have. He looked off a bit, and was definately scared to edge into the killzone and hence, hit leather all night long! He never really turned up the heat in the fight!

Add to that, DLH was wailing around his punches everywhere, no timing, no measurement, no combinations, only rediculous looking flurries!

With the old school DLH style back (something I have been hoping to see for years and years now!!!!!!!!!!), definately makes me want to watch a rematch more than ever!
and the NEW
Yeh, well this is the thing, DLH bought back his old style once, let's hope he sticks with it and can repeat it.

No idea why the hell he changed for so many years! I guess he had too when he was fighting MUCH bigger men. Like against Sturm, he just could not penetrate or do a thing, same as against BHOP.

You have to stick to where your strengths are, and DLH was back to that against Forbes and back closer to his natural weight. Sure he got hit a bit, but I remember Carr landing quiet a few (whereas Tito destroyed him). Mosley also landed a stack of jabs and straight rings, along with a few body shots. It's not like DLH is a defensive wizard, especially in the fights he really presses and tries to walk his opponent down.

I thought it was REMARKABLE how much he looked like his old self, the way he was throwing his punches and even the same combinations were coming out. Some of those combinations was so remeniscent of the Chavez fights.

I think if DLH fights like that, he will force Mayweather to fight much much more. I just hope when he finds Mayweather hard to tag, he does not resort back to the wailing away and applies pressure consistently with his old measured attack (much like he did against Pea, even though he was barely tagging him). Though, he could have and should have applied a bit more pressure in that fight the way Tito did to Pea.

I am generally in the minority here, which does not bother me, not sure why, but I think bias blinds a lot of people and is something I try and steer well clear of. It appears rife throughout the forum.
CreDog
QUOTE(Eaner0919 @ May 6 2008, 03:26 PM) [snapback]388733[/snapback]
just because a fight is close doesn't mean we want to watch a rematch of it. Their first fight was dull. Even in the crowd live this fight was a snooze.



This sums it up perfectly. Short and succinct. The fight was close, but Floyd is a safety first fighter and generally makes for "dull" fights.
and the NEW
QUOTE(Fitz @ May 7 2008, 01:17 PM) [snapback]388775[/snapback]
That's fair enough. I'm definitely not being bias at all though. DLH is my favourite fighter.


Yes, you do not seem bias.

And there will always be many opinions, I respect that. I just do not respect people who are opinionated (talk rubbish that any boxing fanatic can see straight though) as opposed to having an educated opinion.

Ah well, we will see what happens. I expect a close fight with Mayweather edging it but being pushed to his limits. This is not going to be any Ricky Hatton affair if the real deal DLH shows up and I would not be completely surprised to see DLH take a decision.
sweetchuck
What's with DLH and his "Old Style"? He was never that consistant with a style. Oscar was best on his toes and boxing. He's trying, once again, to reinvent himself. Even though he won, he was that looked like he was in a fight this past weekend. The only reason why I watched the fight was because I've known Forbes since his amateur days.

I said my piece on this fight on the other thread...But to add something, one of DLH's best fights was against Fernando Vargas. That was a good and entertaining fight. When Oscar talked about a rematch the media dogged him because everyone said, "Why, Oscar you will just beat him again, this time worst." So we never got to see a DLH-Vargas rematch. That rematch would have been ten times more entertaining and Vargas had a much better chance at turning the tables on DLH than DLH has a chance to turn the tables on Mayweather.

But to touch on your point. Yeah, the first fight could be consider close, but just because a fight is close doesn't mean we want or need to see a rematch. Hell, Evander Holyfield-Vaughn Bean appeared close, but who really wanted to see a rematch of that? Since we're going rematches because they were close and not entertaining how about an undercard of John Ruiz-Fres Oquendo, Byrd-Williamson (funny I actually like both of them personally) and a Jeff Lacy-Peter Manfredo. But then again there probably isn't enough money in the budget for an undercard with names like that.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(and the NEW @ May 7 2008, 01:38 AM) [snapback]388768[/snapback]
The reason I did not want to see a rematch whatsoever, is Mayweather could have done a LOT better and should have. He looked off a bit, and was definately scared to edge into the killzone and hence, hit leather all night long! He never really turned up the heat in the fight!

I always felt Mayweather was conscious during that first fight of keeping it close enough to preserve the potential rematch. I too think he could have won the fight a lot easier than he did. He chose to keep it close IMO.

Oscar looked better last weekend against Forbes but I just can't see it being enough at this point in his career to beat Mayweather. I expect the rematch to be slightly more entertaining but also more one-sided.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 7 2008, 10:35 AM) [snapback]388788[/snapback]
When Oscar talked about a rematch the media dogged him because everyone said, "Why, Oscar you will just beat him again, this time worst." So we never got to see a DLH-Vargas rematch.

Good point. I remember none other than Greg Leon making a point time and again back in early 2004 of saying he expected Oscar to rematch Vargas and poo-pooing it each time as nothing more than a bullshit money grab. This is back when Leon was on his 'Oscar is scared to step up and fight Hopkins' kick. Whatever. I wonder what Leon's saying now about Mayweather's decision to rematch Oscar. Nothing but roses coming out of his mouth I'm sure. Talk about hypocrisy.
and the NEW
QUOTE(CreDog @ May 7 2008, 03:13 PM) [snapback]388786[/snapback]
This sums it up perfectly. Short and succinct. The fight was close, but Floyd is a safety first fighter and generally makes for "dull" fights.


Like he did against Corley, Hatton, Gatti, Ndou, Coralles? laugh.gif
and the NEW
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 7 2008, 03:35 PM) [snapback]388788[/snapback]
What's with DLH and his "Old Style"? He was never that consistant with a style. Oscar was best on his toes and boxing. He's


Ummmmm, ok.

Sure we are talking about the same guy, pre 147? Oscar had the EXACT same style, just pressured more against certain guys.

Looked pretty damn consistent to me.

Big Slim, whatever Oscar does he will cop it. It is called the "tall poppy syndrome" in Australia and something not unique to this place, just recognised.

Just as Mayweather is now, Roy Jones copped the same, heck, even Sugar Ray Robinson ducked Mr Charles and had everything from fight selection to ring size selection in his favour............

Its not new to this era!

Just wait until these guys retire and Cotto becomes the new target man for criticism, ducking all the new up and coming guys..........

drag.gif
CreDog
QUOTE(and the NEW @ May 7 2008, 10:40 AM) [snapback]388791[/snapback]
Like he did against Corley, Hatton, Gatti, Ndou, Coralles? laugh.gif



Like he did what?? Watch those fights again, it's always been safety first with Mayweather regardless if he KO's someone. That's his style, moron.

You proved my point, all of the fights you mentioned above were BORING.

sweetchuck
Those were more entertaining fights from Mayweather, and the end was entertaining. Look De La Hoya fought Chavez (140) on his toes with his jab. He was a little more scrappy at the lighter divisions, but that was against guys like Paez and Troy Dorsey who laid down for him. What do you expect when blown up featherweights fight a dry welterweight. When DLH fought guys his size he was on his toes and jabbed with a few exceptions. Look, I'm not dogging on either DLH or Mayweather, they are great fighters from this era. All I am saying and that majority of us are saying is...DON'T MAKE US ENDURE A PIECE OF SHIT REMATCH!
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(and the NEW @ May 7 2008, 11:48 AM) [snapback]388792[/snapback]
Big Slim, whatever Oscar does he will cop it. It is called the "tall poppy syndrome" in Australia and something not unique to this place, just recognised.

Just as Mayweather is now, Roy Jones copped the same, heck, even Sugar Ray Robinson ducked Mr Charles and had everything from fight selection to ring size selection in his favour............

Its not new to this era!

What are we talking about here? Oscar being the boss who calls the shots? I'm not sure I follow exactly.
Bhopreign
QUOTE(CreDog @ May 7 2008, 12:07 PM) [snapback]388794[/snapback]
Like he did what?? Watch those fights again, it's always been safety first with Mayweather regardless if he KO's someone. That's his style, moron.

You proved my point, all of the fights you mentioned above were BORING.


Whats wrong with safety first? Thats like having a team thats not defensive minded. Who cares if you can drop 30 on your opponent but give up 30+ yourself, like a Steve Nash, no disrespect Nash.
and the NEW
CreDog, another newb come to get skinned? Save your words and stop digging a hole for yourself. Dull fights for the general fan, from aficianados of the sweet science, far from dull. Infact, absolutely astonishing what Mayweather does in there! I have never seen anybody come close to the style he implements! Ndou was a very good challenger and Mayweather took him out big time in a very high entertainment fight. Ndou had some HUGE punches and was knocking cold most contenders, whilst Mayweather retired him in only a few rounds! Anyways, I don't waste my time with opinionated newbs, so that is all you will hear from me, you are going to my ignore list. Cheers.

BigSlim, simply stating any guys at the top of the sport always cop flack for everything they do. Including the greatest in the sports history, SRR.

Sweetchuck, Oscar was a little more scrappy at the lighter divisions? I seriously question which fights you have seen of his early career, other than the two you mentioned (as I have seen his entire career, every single fight about 15 times each + numerous of his amateur bouts). Paez far from laid down for Oscar, he was knocked COLD! Oscar, from his very first fight, fought with the exact style he did against Forbes, with the exact same technique on his punches (every single punch he threw was textbook from the first few years of his career). The man had excellent technique from day one as a professional, definately not scrappy. Far far from it. Anybody can say he was a huge feather, but didn't Mosley drop from amateur to make light? BHOP could have fought at light-heavy? Tito was a big welter, same as Forrest. Cotto drained himself to make 140.............man the list goes on, DLH was not a huge welter, the strength difference between he and Tito was observable, hence Oscar HAD to dance all night, no way was he walking Tito down. You will see few fights of him doing that 140<, even at 147 there were quiet a few guys he stalked.

xxxxxx
QUOTE(CreDog @ May 7 2008, 12:07 PM) [snapback]388794[/snapback]
Like he did what?? Watch those fights again, it's always been safety first with Mayweather regardless if he KO's someone. That's his style, moron.

You proved my point, all of the fights you mentioned above were BORING.



You've got to be kidding.What is your definition of boring?
and the NEW
QUOTE(Big Slim @ May 7 2008, 03:50 PM) [snapback]388790[/snapback]
I wonder what Leon's saying now about Mayweather's decision to rematch Oscar. Nothing but roses coming out of his mouth I'm sure. Talk about hypocrisy.


On that note, why did the forum move?

Clash between Leon and Hype?
sweetchuck
The way DLH fought Forbes doesn't make it a more interesting fight, it will make it a disgrace. Floyd will counter everything DLH does and stops him in 9 or 10. Oh wait, this is Mayweather we're talking about, so counter a lot...run...defense...defense...can't get hurt...can't break a hand...end of 12, boring decision to Mayweather.

The sad thing is that people fell for that infomercial with Forbes.

Oh and if you just because they didn't actually take a dive...they take a dive by going into a fight that they know they have enough physical disadvantages and where they are at their career they know they won't win.

Look, I like both fighters, just not fighting each other. If Oscar fights the same way he will lose and the fight won't be much more than what was the first.

Come to think of it, DLH at jr. lightweight and lightweight fought the same. I have not watched DLH's fights as much as you. It's not like his fights are all worth watching and yes I have seen most of DLH's early fights. You're right, he just seemed more entertaining because his punches were more effective at those weights. A little more scrappy can be said because he got easier knockouts. Plus he tasted the canvas more back then. You're right, Oscar does fight the same, but like I said, he was at his best jabbing and on his toes. If he tries to box with the boxer, it might be a better fight. But if he comes at Mayweather like he did Forbes he will lose again.
and the NEW
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 8 2008, 07:44 AM) [snapback]388847[/snapback]
A little more scrappy can be said because he got easier knockouts. Plus he tasted the canvas more back then. You're right, Oscar does fight the same, but like I said, he was at his best jabbing and on his toes. If he tries to box with the boxer, it might be a better fight. But if he comes at Mayweather like he did Forbes he will lose again.


How dose getting easier knockouts mean a fight looks scrappy? They looked clinical as hell to me.

He tasted the canvas more back then?

Oscar was at his best boxing and on his toes against guys he could not walk down.

If that did not remind you (or anybody else on the forum) of the exact stance and punch technicals of a prime Oscar, you obvouisly have not seen enough of him or are blind. Sure he got hit more than most of his fights and looked a little slower, but that is about it IMO.

He is not going to purely outbox Floyd. He needs to come at him, but with timed combinations (not flurries) and a measured attack, along with ripping shots to the body, not that junk he was throwing in the first fight. Stick the jab out on the way in and stick it out or throw the left hook as soon as Floyd comes in. Make sure he is in tip top shape. Not a hard gameplan.

Oscar was once my favourite fighter, same as Fitz, but that was many many years ago. Since, I barely care to watch him fight (not just his style, but fighting WAY above where he should have been). This is the first time I have been struck by a resemblance to his formidable days.

We will see, I still favour Floyd as the man is a genius in the ring, but Oscar is a very very formidable opponent when he fights his natural style.
Eaner0919
QUOTE(Bhopreign @ May 7 2008, 07:57 PM) [snapback]388827[/snapback]
Whats wrong with safety first? Thats like having a team thats not defensive minded. Who cares if you can drop 30 on your opponent but give up 30+ yourself, like a Steve Nash, no disrespect Nash.

I dont think there is anything wrong in fighting that way so long as they know the chances of them being endearing to a crowd that wants to be entertained are slim. Since practically all the members here on this forum are diehard fans we can sometimes appreciate the art of D. However, at some point we as fans do have to realize that this is a sport based on entertainment. Fighters can be safety first but fans tend to gravitate towards those that entertain, which in turn brings in crowds, which in turn brings in revenue, which in turn endears a fighter to the fan.

It's human nature we want to be entertained some love to see a display of D and chess moves but for the most part we like our fights to be filled with high level action.
CreDog
QUOTE(Bhopreign @ May 7 2008, 06:57 PM) [snapback]388827[/snapback]
Whats wrong with safety first? Thats like having a team thats not defensive minded. Who cares if you can drop 30 on your opponent but give up 30+ yourself, like a Steve Nash, no disrespect Nash.



Nothing. That's his style. AND in MY OPINION it puts me to sleep.

CreDog
QUOTE(Fitz @ May 7 2008, 07:28 PM) [snapback]388832[/snapback]
So you think he fought the same in the Baldomir/DLH fights as the Gatti/Hatton fights? Is that what you are saying?


I see where you are going.... Two types of safety strategies based on the opponent.

Safety first--- REALLY SAFE against Baldomir and DLH. Somewhat safe in the Gatti/Hatton fights. DUDE.... Gatti was as shopworn as Jenna Jameson-- Floyd should have toasted his ass in 2 and Hatton-- come on. Floyd was the bigger man and it took him till what round to put Hatton away.

No one EVER gave Gatti or Hatton a shot of winning.

Let's get this straight--- it is what it is good, bad or indifferent. All you Floyd lovers are so sensitive.

For me safety first isn't my cup of tea, ESPECIALLY when I putting down a $50 to watch his fights.



CreDog
QUOTE(xxxxxx @ May 7 2008, 09:31 PM) [snapback]388841[/snapback]
You've got to be kidding.What is your definition of boring?



I'm not kidding. It's not my cup of tea, there's a reason why it took him so long to get a PPV date, albeit the fighter who got the date was Gatti.

My definition of BORING in boxing is a safety first fighter who doesn't take chances in the ring.

The name of game isn't always about winning. That's why fighters like SRL, Gatti, Corrales, Barrera, PAC, Morales, Holyfield, Tyson etc will always be popular.







and the NEW
I hope SRL was not the acronym for Sugar Ray Leonard, put in the same paragraph that the aim of the game is not always about winning.

Maybe go have a word with Marvelous Marvin, or perhaps Ray himself. He clearly states boxing is all about the sweet science.

SRL was one for the purists, more popular than Hearns who was far more entertainment based your your criteria.

But hey, Willie Pep was also a lot more popular than Mr Saddler!
CreDog
QUOTE(and the NEW @ May 8 2008, 11:23 PM) [snapback]388972[/snapback]
I hope SRL was not the acronym for Sugar Ray Leonard, put in the same paragraph that the aim of the game is not always about winning.

Maybe go have a word with Marvelous Marvin, or perhaps Ray himself. He clearly states boxing is all about the sweet science.

SRL was one for the purists, more popular than Hearns who was far more entertainment based your your criteria.

But hey, Willie Pep was also a lot more popular than Mr Saddler!



I hear where you are coming from, but you can't tell me that SRL didn't take chances against Hearns.

He also took chances when it came to fighting the best of his era sans Hagler.

But you make a good point.
and the NEW
Against Hearns, he fought the way he had too, in neither of their two fights, did I see Leonard come to bang (despite coming in with rediculous biceps in the rematch)!

Leonard fought the best of his era? There were many many years he "ducked" Hagler, only fighting him once he was a shell of his former self (given Ray was also a shell by that stage and I still had him winning the fight).

A few will also tell you he "ducked" Pryor huh.gif
MarzB
The problem as I see it i that hardcore fans want to see Mayweather active, PERIOD!!! Where as Mayweather sees it as, "I've been active now I want to pick and choose my battles".

The problem is that a lot of Mayweather haters recognize his skills but generally HATE HIM and want to see him lose at all cost. So any little or big thing they'll inflate.

I personally believe Floyd has hand issues he doesn't talk about all that openly and wants to rest his hands in addition to taking a break.

If Mayweather fought, hm Cotton, Quintana, Margarito, Cintron, Mosley, Junior Witter, Cory Spinks, etc it STILL wouldn't satisfy his "detractors". I would definitely love to see a more ACTIVE Floyd but again, considering the years he's put in the sport and this includes training, I can see where a break would come in.

What I personally in my MARZ's perfect world scenario would be for is that fighters fight "exhibitions" to stay sharp, active and expose fights to Joe Common. This is what used to occur back in the day. But guys like Floyd are way too protected and guarded, hell he doesn't even want people to see his sparring.

As far as Floyd and Oscar goes, I would like to see Floyd take more risk and finally put this dude out of his overrated misery.
and the NEW
QUOTE(MarzB @ May 10 2008, 04:52 PM) [snapback]389088[/snapback]
As far as Floyd and Oscar goes, I would like to see Floyd take more risk and finally put this dude out of his overrated misery.


Why put that at the end of your post? Shows a lot of bias right there.

Encase you have forgot, here is his resume:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...3&cat=boxer

He held his own with every single man (except perhaps BHOP, but not bad considering he is a man starting his career around 130lbs), beating some LEGENDS, walking through many world champs.



streetlion1
QUOTE(MarzB @ May 10 2008, 11:52 AM) [snapback]389088[/snapback]
The problem as I see it i that hardcore fans want to see Mayweather active, PERIOD!!! Where as Mayweather sees it as, "I've been active now I want to pick and choose my battles".

The problem is that a lot of Mayweather haters recognize his skills but generally HATE HIM and want to see him lose at all cost. So any little or big thing they'll inflate.

I personally believe Floyd has hand issues he doesn't talk about all that openly and wants to rest his hands in addition to taking a break.

If Mayweather fought, hm Cotton, Quintana, Margarito, Cintron, Mosley, Junior Witter, Cory Spinks, etc it STILL wouldn't satisfy his "detractors". I would definitely love to see a more ACTIVE Floyd but again, considering the years he's put in the sport and this includes training, I can see where a break would come in.

What I personally in my MARZ's perfect world scenario would be for is that fighters fight "exhibitions" to stay sharp, active and expose fights to Joe Common. This is what used to occur back in the day. But guys like Floyd are way too protected and guarded, hell he doesn't even want people to see his sparring.

As far as Floyd and Oscar goes, I would like to see Floyd take more risk and finally put this dude out of his overrated misery.

WOW! He pulled the over-rated card on DLH?!?! A guy who has fought the best and all comers his whole career...and still continues at this age to wanna fight the top guys in the biz. A guy who without question is overrated is PBF! Now you could definitely call me a PBF "detractor" however if he did fight a Cotto and possibly a Mosley after his 2nd DLH payday I would give him all the respect in the world. But I've said it many times and will continue to say it...how can a guy who has fought moderate competion for most of his career and begins to dodge and duck people once he gets around Real talent be considered the best P4P in the sport?! A guy who is so cocky and calls himself the best shouldnt bitch up and make excuses once guys like Margarito, Mosley, and Cotto start calling him out.
PR316
All I'm gonna say is this.

Oscar De La Hoya is the only guy who can fight such a glorified sparring session on HBO and even pay per view, STRUGGLE and look horrible, and still get worshipped by HBO themselves and some fans.


If it had been Floyd Mayweather who fought Forbes on HBO, I GUARANTEE that the media and many so called boxing fans would have wanted him CRUCIFIED.


Double standards.
D-MARV
QUOTE(PR316 @ May 11 2008, 07:58 PM) [snapback]389171[/snapback]
All I'm gonna say is this.

Oscar De La Hoya is the only guy who can fight such a glorified sparring session on HBO and even pay per view, STRUGGLE and look horrible, and still get worshipped by HBO themselves and some fans.
If it had been Floyd Mayweather who fought Forbes on HBO, I GUARANTEE that the media and many so called boxing fans would have wanted him CRUCIFIED.
Double standards.

clapping.gif THANK YOU!

Floyd Caught Hell for fighting Zab Judah who in my opinion was a much more bigger threat than Forbes!
and the NEW
I agree PR, in that it was much like a sparring session. Oscar knew he was a class above and Forbes would provide rounds and a style somewhat resembling Mayweather.

However, did Forbes not say himself if Oscar fought like that, he would beat Mayweather (after sparring hundreds of rounds with Mayweather himself)?

Not that Forbes knows the winner, nobody does (or we would all be rich sports betters), but it is interesting how many 'experts' are of the opinion Oscar fought well, in comparison to most fans on this site. I think the only thing Oscar would do in this fight to impress people here would be to walk through Forbes, and even then, Forbes would have been too small and Oscar set-up a mis-match!

If Mayweather took the fight as a tune-up to DLH, I would personally have no problem. It was not meant to be a tough test, simply rounds in the bag.
sweetchuck
As much as I like Forbes, I think the outcome of that fight that was beneficial was all financial. As evidenced on this thread and this board, there are people who are more interested in seeing a rematch between Floyd and Oscar...And Forbes got that half million dollar payday he would have received if he won The Contender.

Forbes and Oscar fought that fight like a sparring session. Oscar wanted to show that he would fight a sustained attack for 12 rounds so he could say that the next fight would be different.

I think Oscar wants to leave with a bang. He probably would have left a few years ago if he pulled off the upset of Bhops. If he wins or at least keeps the rematch with Floyd close he will get a fight with Cotto. That fight would probably draw 750,000 buys at the least. That is assuming Cotto beats Margarito and that is not an easy task. Given how both Judah and Mosley were effective against Cotto, DLH has a very good chance at beating Cotto. I think that will give him the way he wants to leave the sport. A close competitive fight with Mayweather he can say he felt he won in case he doesn't, and then a win over Cotto. But I wonder if he will still retire if he drops both of those fights.
MarzB
A guy who has fought the best and all comers his whole career...and still continues at this age to wanna fight the top guys in the biz.

You act like this is such a big friggin deal and NO he has't fought all the best comes in his career. I mentioned in my post he didn't nor has fought FORREST when the fight could have been made. Nor did he fight Winky when they were both Junior Middlweights.

As far as fought all comers, give me a break with that crap. He gets inflated because he fought Hopkins. Wupdee do. I don't know too many fighters when they're making nearly the lions share (three times as much- he made $30 mill to Hopkins 10-15 mill) that wouldn't take that risk. Hell, I'm pretty certain most lower class guys would fight a heavyweight for that amount.

Who else? Oh yeah fighting past his prime Chavez (yawn) TWICE, Vargas (big deal), Quartey (questionable win), past his prime Whitaker and still in the eyes of most fans he lost that match.

I bet you're one of those people who actually believe that 6 division champion crap. Oh yeah the 5th one was when he "BEAT" suppsedly Felix Sturm. Yeah right.

He's NEVER and I repeat NEVER beaten an elite level fighter, every big fight he's been in he's lost. So yes, I saw he's overrated. I don't think he's a scrub by any means and I already mentioned where I placed him but don't act as if I don't have an argument to stand on in this instance.

Mosley (lost twice)
Hopkins - put on his ass
Trinidad - ran like a bitch at the end of the fight. Has the nerve to say "he gave him a boxing lesson" on the way out but at the same time his hypocritical ass criticizes Floyd for not trading with him.
Floyd-looked like an amateur at times the punches he was throwing or should I say flailing.
Didn't fight Forrest when they were both welterweights
Didn't fight Winky when Dela Hoya was a Jr middleweight.

If you consider beating Ruelas, past his prime Camacho, Hernandez (good boxer), Mayorga, Vargas, Yuri Boy Campas, the stuff of greatness. Thats fine. My bar happens to be a bit higher.

In the end, when Floyd fights Dela Hoya, he could have Floyd's mama, daddy, grandpa and ma in his corner and it won't make a difference.

Result is still the same. Now go and believe the hype about your former middleweight chumpion (LOL).

The CEO
Each side accusing the other of being bias....lol...I see DLH in the same light Marz and PR do...a very good boxer at his best...but nothing more than a rich loser.

Oscar definitely has a polarizing affect on fans....they either love him or hate him.
MarzB
but you keep your mouth shut when mentioning Mosley and Trinidad. Not bias at all. And you didn't touch on his avoidance of Wright and Forrest.

I didn't feel the need to discuss it. I thought Mosley won both times and I did touch on his own hypocrisy in how he did a "Carl Lewis" impersonation when he fought Tito when Floyd has NEVER ran that much.

The second Mosley fight was more competitive but your boy (as usual) was winded late and took some incredible body shots. Its par for the course though because regardless what side of the fence you sit on, he's gotten some controversial decisions (Sturm, Quartey, Whitaker) and has been on the losing side of some (Trinidad and Mosley II). That was the fight he was going to launch his, "full thorough investigation",lol. I'm just waiting for his excuse when he loses to Floyd again. One week prior he says "I'm in the best shape of my life. Working with Freddie has been great", one week later he now fought with a torn rotator cuff.

Bias?? Whatever, I presented facts. I said on the scale (maybe not in this thread) that on the scale of Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent that he teeters on the "very good" .
and the NEW
QUOTE(Fitz @ May 12 2008, 09:56 AM) [snapback]389200[/snapback]
haha. I used to think it was only casual fans with this mentality.


I think you just answered your own rhetorical question with quiet a number on the site. No offence to anybody inparticular.

His record and accomplishments have been argued too many times, so I don't care to go through it again. Do a search.

Fact is, he will go down as an all-time legend of the ring on many well respected lists and in many well respected opinions. Including those of many he fought. Legends, champions to the average contender and journeymen. There is only one place for Oscar in ring history, while I agree, it is not at the top with the likes of Ray Leonard, Robinson, Ali etc, it will be high nonetheless. On this site I have heard countless Ray Leonard and Ali detractors over the years, so there you go!
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(MarzB @ May 10 2008, 11:52 AM) [snapback]389088[/snapback]
If Mayweather fought, hm Cotton, Quintana, Margarito, Cintron, Mosley, Junior Witter, Cory Spinks, etc it STILL wouldn't satisfy his "detractors".

Not slamming you personally or the rest of your post, but I hate this line of thinking here. It's bullshit. If Floyd fought and beat Cotto, Mosley and Margarito he would get all the props in the world from me and his other "detractors". This is the same line of thinking that leads to, 'He can beat those guys anyway, so why bother?' Except instead, this time it's 'He won't get any credit anyway...' Fuck that. Fight the fights.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Big Slim @ May 13 2008, 02:46 PM) [snapback]389317[/snapback]
Not slamming you personally or the rest of your post, but I hate this line of thinking here. It's bullshit. If Floyd fought and beat Cotto, Mosley and Margarito he would get all the props in the world from me and his other "detractors". This is the same line of thinking that leads to, 'He can beat those guys anyway, so why bother?' Except instead, this time it's 'He won't get any credit anyway...' Fuck that. Fight the fights.


I agree. If Mayewather fought and beat those guys he would get all the credit in the world from the people that matters. That does not include haters and idiots. As it stands now should he retire he would no doubt be in the HOF. But if he wants to be in with Robinson, Pep, Hagler, Armstrong etc he must fight more top guys.
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