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The Original MrFactor
Man, he looked really bad tonight. This guy has absolutely nothing left. I hope for his sake, he retires. I cant beleive his dad didnt throw in the towel. Shame oin him. When I saw a prefight interview with Byrd, he looked bad. His speech has a slight slur, he looks bad and takes way to much punishment at this point. Its over, please retire. I enjoyed his career. He had big balls for a smallish heavyweight.
BGv2.0
Yeah....I agree....it's time to call it a day and move on. He's got great announcer skills.....so he can move right into that.
BigG
I didn't see the fight but if Byrd got dominated then stopped by Shaun George then it's time to call it a career. He was once a good Heavyweight with good defense and quick hands..but he's done now.
sweetchuck
Byrd is probably done unless he gets a decent payday. I mean, lets say someone like Chad Dawson's promoter Gary Shaw offers Byrd $150k to fight Dawson. He'll probably take it because it's a title opportunity and about how much he was being paid to be a heavyweight. Far fetched? Remember, Gary Shaw is the same man who wants Mike Tyson to fight Kimbo Slice.
Warlord
Somewhere Byrd man is crying alone, sobbing, rocking himself to the sweet bliss of forgetful sleep.
sweetchuck
Alone? Nah, Chris has a good family behind him. He and Tracy could be crying because now they won't see a seven figure payday against Jones, Tarver or Calzaghe.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 17 2008, 03:47 AM) [snapback]389862[/snapback]
Byrd is probably done unless he gets a decent payday. I mean, lets say someone like Chad Dawson's promoter Gary Shaw offers Byrd $150k to fight Dawson. He'll probably take it because it's a title opportunity and about how much he was being paid to be a heavyweight.


You think Byrd was only making 150k for his fights at heavy?

BrutalBodyShots
Byrd looked terrible. We was hurt TWICE (dropped once) in the first round and hurt again in the second. The guy can't take shots the way he used to. Time to leave the game.

BGv2.0
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 17 2008, 03:07 AM) [snapback]389867[/snapback]
Alone? Nah, Chris has a good family behind him. He and Tracy could be crying because now they won't see a seven figure payday against Jones, Tarver or Calzaghe.



laugh.gif I might be wrong...but I think Warlord was referring to the poster who calls himself "Byrd Man".

BigG
So seeing as how Byrd is 38 and just got stopped by a Lightheavy..you think he might be a future Kimbo Slice opponent? laugh.gif
xxxxxx
That was really sad to see Byrd dominated like that tonight.Byrd is a good guy and was a solid Heavyweight in his prime, but I think he should call it quits. I think he started to get a little better around the middle rounds, but then just fell a part.I was rooting for him even though I've never been a huge fan of his.I'm sure he worked hard to get that weight off which is also dissapointing to see him fail here.I still believe he has accompished enough to make the Hall of Fame, what do you guys think?
BigG
Byrd in the Hall Of Fame? No way. Byrd was a very talented fighter who fought about 2 weight classes above his natural weight...but just never did enough.

His title reign was unimpressive.

Gifts against Oquendo, Golota...a close one with McCline...then theres the win over Williamson. Then he gets slaughtered against Wlad.

He does have 2 good solid wins over Tua and Olyfield but other then that not much.

HOF spots should be reserved for guys like Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather, Toney, Tito, DLH...
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ May 17 2008, 06:23 AM) [snapback]389885[/snapback]
So seeing as how Byrd is 38 and just got stopped by a Lightheavy..you think he might be a future Kimbo Slice opponent? laugh.gif

you're right, he's probably still too good for slice. he's not some truck driver from off the street, or a homeless guy.
D-MARV
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ May 17 2008, 04:53 AM) [snapback]389874[/snapback]
Byrd looked terrible. We was hurt TWICE (dropped once) in the first round and hurt again in the second. The guy can't take shots the way he used to. Time to leave the game.

Agreed,
But these were also different types of shots he was taking. @ Heavy, he was hit with slower, heavier shots that he probably saw coming. @ Light Heavy these were sharp fast shots right on the button. Byrd is done. Not a HOF career but still a great career.
buford54
That's sad. The opposite of what he aspired to at LH. Thought he'd be faster and better able to handle the shots of smaller guys.
Instead he was slower and not able to take shots.
xxxxxx
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ May 17 2008, 05:37 AM) [snapback]389892[/snapback]
Byrd in the Hall Of Fame? No way. Byrd was a very talented fighter who fought about 2 weight classes above his natural weight...but just never did enough.

His title reign was unimpressive.

Gifts against Oquendo, Golota...a close one with McCline...then theres the win over Williamson. Then he gets slaughtered against Wlad.

He does have 2 good solid wins over Tua and Olyfield but other then that not much.

HOF spots should be reserved for guys like Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather, Toney, Tito, DLH...



After looking at his resume a little closer, it doesn't look as impressive as I thought it was.He did have the wins over Tua and Holyfield that you mentioned, but he also won a belt over Vitaly.I know he was loosing the fight before Vitaly quit, but it's still a victory. I don't know if that gets him in or not. I think he's kinda on the border, if Byrd woulda closed his career on a better note he coulda got in.
basicjab

Never really liked his style but he will be remembered as a good fighter. Definitely not HOF material though, if he is than I guess Golota and Rahman deserves a slot too, ha ha.

Can't knock a guys career when he's on a losing streak at 38 years old. He was a good heavy but may have been a very good lightheavy or cruiser if he started there in his prime.

It will become sadder and sadder because I have a feeling he will continue, have seen it before with boxers who can't call it a day.
basicjab
QUOTE(basicjab @ May 17 2008, 02:57 PM) [snapback]389924[/snapback]
I'm not God - but I am something similar.

-Roberto Duran


Ha-ha, did here really say that?
Byrd Man
I'm not crying, sobbing, weeping or anything like that. I'm not happy, and I'm highly disappointed though.

Byrd's had a very good career. Two time Heavyweight Champion, and at one point was the Ring #1 Heavyweight (as they mentioned last night on FNF) and he was on top for five years before losing to Wlad.

He routinely stepped in against people out weighing him by 20-30lbs (I believe Ibeabuchi was over 30lbs but not sure), and he didn't duck anyone. He was willing to go anywhere, including going to FUCKING GERMANY for three fights against Wlad and Vitali, when a lot of US fighters refused to do so.

Fighters routinely ducked him, and Holyfield (who wasn't totally shot at that point) flat out stated he was not going to fight Byrd, but then when he couldn't find an opponent, he ended up fighting Byrd, and lost his belt.

And say what you will about whether or not he would have won, Lennox Lewis gave up his belt rather than fight Chris Byrd. That shows you how much Byrd was ducked because he was able to make good fighters look ordinary against him.

But that was all in his prime and he's past that now. I hope he retires and goes into training, which he's said he wants to do. I'm sure he can get a job with ESPN or someone broadcasting the fight.

I can't believe that Nady was going to let that shit go on, and the FIGHTER had to say "stop it".

Fucking disgraceful of Nady.

BigG
I just saw highlights of the fight on youtube and it was really sad to see.

First of all, Byrd looked so weak in there and had nothing for George. Byrd looked shot and was getting battered. He looked slow and had nothing on his shots. George basically hit him at will. He hurt him badly with a right in round 1..then about a minute later, knocked him down with a counter-right. The last knockdown (uppercut-straight) was very brutal and Nady should've stopped it himself.

It's sad to see old champs get beaten like that.....it was pretty hard watching Tyson get battered and quitting against Williams & McBride...class C Heavyweights (well McBride is probably D) he would've killed in 1 round in his prime.

Never was a fan of Byrd but I respect the balls he showed at Heavyweight...going up against the Klitschko's, Ibeabuchi, Tua, and all those guys who had huge size advantages over him. He was a really good fighter but Byrd has been on the decline for a long time and now it's safe to say he is totally shot and needs to call it a career.
stateofthegame
Lennox also gave up a belt not to face John Ruiz, and honestly at the time Ruiz and Byrd were the best two heavyweights for Lewis to fight. I mean Vitaly was considered soft and Wlad was getting knocked out by golfers.
MarzB
Its' too bad for him it had to end like this because he looked in great condition.

Whats really surprising to me is that Byrd looked/IS a shot fighter yesterday and while he's taken some blows, usually fighters that look like that are guys who were SLUGGER type of fighters. You would think with his defense, slipping and just elusive style that he wouldn't have been "SHOT" as he was.

His style wasn't friendly to most fans but I loved the way he made those heavy's miss in his prime and counter and frustrate them. A hall of famer?? He gets in like I get in, with a ticket.

But he's definitely one of the best and did it without being a slugger. I really wish the Lennox fight would have happened because my money was on Byrd.

Time for Rapid Fire to hang'em up. He's made money, pretty decent guy, 15 years in the ring, he has nothing to be ashamed of.


But don't come back please.
sweetchuck
Funny thing about the Kimbo Slice comment was that I text messaged Hype right after the fight that maybe Chris could get a fight with Slice.

Anyway, about Chris Byrd's making $150k as a heavyweight. His minimum purse under Don King while he was champ was $2.5 million a fight. Talking to Chris, he never saw that much. When he made his last successful defense of the title against Williamson, Byrd finally wanted his minimum after taking far less than the minimum for his entire reign as champion. King to teach Byrd a lesson let the fight go to purse bid and was the only bidder at $450,000. It's a 65/35 split in the IBF for a mandatory challenger. So that would make his purse in the neighborhood of $292,500, take out around 30% of that for taxes it's $204,750. Then there's sanctioning fees, his corner is his family so I doubt they're taking as much as a normal corner and Tracy's his manager so she's not taking a small percentage (as his wife she's taking it all, lol). After it is all said and done, when he got home he probably had about $150k. From what I've been told, all of his defenses he was paid pretty low because King would say that he wasn't marketable. Maybe not as low as $150k. Both Chris and Tracy told me after the mess with the Williamson fight that Chris needs to start making his minimum in order to start setting things up for the rest of his life.

I can see Byrd getting another shot and a decent payday because of who he is and if he needs the money to make his retirement easier, maybe one more fight isn't the worst of things. Look at how bad Roy Jones looked against Tarver and then came back to look good once again. I'm not saying that he should take one more punch, I like the guy both as a fighter and a human being.

As far as Hall of Fame, I think he'll be there. He's got a good head about boxing, he's liked by a lot of people in the industry. He'll become a commentator or trainer and be successful in those avenues in the sport that will only enhance his reputation and get him into the Hall of Fame. Boxing accomplishments alone he would get in, maybe not right away, but he would eventually get in.
sweetchuck
And if I remember right, Don King gave Lennox Lewis a million dollars not to fight Byrd so he could take the IBF title, have Byrd and Holyfield fight for the vaccant belt and then have the winner fight the winner of Jones-Ruiz. Only thing is that Jones went back down to Light Heavyweight. Thus leaving Byrd with a title and a promoter without a plan for him.
sweetchuck
So there you have it

Byrd passes out, hospitalized!
Tracey promises he won't fight again
In a scary moment, an unconscious former heavyweight champion Chris Byrd was rushed to a Las Vegas hospital Friday night shortly after his shocking KO loss to Shaun George. Byrd reportedly became unresponsive when a combination of valium and morphine were administered in his dressing room to relieve pain from a dislocated shoulder. Happily he was later revived and released. It appears, however, that the loss to George may have been the 37-year-old Byrd's last fight. "I'm not letting him fight anymore," Byrd's wife Tracey told fight scribe Tim Smith. And should Byrd have any notion of fighting again, Tracey warned, "He would have to try to do it without my support, and I don't think he wants to do that!"
Byrd Man
Damn, that's fucked up Chuck....Glad to see he's doing okay now though....

I really hope he stays away. He can get into the training and announcing and get his money that way. He's got nothing else to prove to anyone. Those who hate on him will hate on him no matter what he does, so no need to go out and continue to fight people when he's done enough in his career.

Byrd Man
During his 15-year career as a professional boxer, Chris Byrd won two heavyweight title belts. But he wasn't big enough to fight the biggest heavyweights, so he decided to lose about 30 pounds and fight at light heavyweight.

His first light heavyweight fight was last night, and it went so badly that it will also be his last. Fighting a mediocre boxer named Shaun George, Byrd was pummeled mercilessly, and after the fight, his wife made clear that his career is over. From Tim Smith of ESPN.com:

"I'm not letting him fight anymore," said Tracey Byrd, choking back tears in a telephone conversation from Valley Hospital in Las Vegas late Friday night. "It's almost a relief to know that he's not going to do it anymore. It probably isn't a relief to him because he's so competitive. But for those around him, it's a relief."

And what if Byrd refuses to give it up? "He would have to try to do it without my support," she said. "And I don't think he wants to do that."


The TV cameras caught Byrd apologizing to his family in the ring after the fight, but he has nothing to be sorry for. He's just a 37-year-old with nothing left. Every athlete gets there eventually.
U.S. Champ
From watching the fight I do believe he's close to that fork in the road but we all know the byrdman wouldn't have look so bad had he given his body time to adjust to the weight loss, the former heavyweight champ getting pushed around by a light heavyweight is not suppose to happen, but his heart won't allow him to make excuses, shaun george showed me nothing with the proper time to prepare his body george would've probably lost the decision but there is no crying in boxing,
sweetchuck
It wasn't the weight loss, it wasn't like he lost it in 6 weeks, he was at 175 a month ago. He's been walking around at 175 for a while. The only thing that the weight loss did was have him fight a fighter that was as fast, if not faster than he is.
EpTXCHAMP
RIP byrds career

and jay shady strikes again I still wish zab wouldve hit his ass with the stool after the kostya fight
The CEO
Just watched the YT version of this fight.....maaaan....what a beating.

Byrd even fell down like an old man...at least it wasn't as embarrassing as this......
rusty_trombone
uh he passed out after they shot him up with valium and morphine? what the fuck did they think was going to happen, especially to a guy with a concussion?

damn, tracy byrd just shut down his wifes career.
sweetchuck
Yeah, I don't know too many people who don't pass out when they are given morphin and valium. It's not a bad thing that she doesn't want him to fight, that was a bad beating he took.

Byrd Man


LAS VEGAS, NEV (May 17, 2008) -- Tracy Byrd issued the following statement today to fans and friends concerned about her husband Chris after last night's loss to Shaun George: "Chris is ok. His spirits are HIGH. He is closer to the Lord then ever in his life and trusts that he will take care of everything. Chris is disappointed in last night..

"He said he was feeling off in the dressing room. Felt like his legs weren't there from the beginning of the fight. When he got dropped in the first round he hurt his shoulder. We believe it tore a rotator cuff and ultimately dislocated his shoulder during the course of the fight. We will have it examined on Monday. The injury really kept him from throwing his left.

"When Chris returned to the dressing room the doctors had to sedate him to pop his shoulder back in. The medicines were a bit overwhelming for his body and they couldn't wake him. The result of that was they had to rush him by ambulance to the hospital and use other meds to counteract the ones given to him in the dressing room. It was very scary for his friends and family. But he came through. His shoulder is very sore but he is feeling better.

"Chris congratulates Shaun George on his victory and hopes he takes advantage of the opportunity of his victory to the fullest and continues to work hard. Shaun and his wife have a baby on the way and wishes them the best."

xxxxxx
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ May 17 2008, 07:26 PM) [snapback]389981[/snapback]
LAS VEGAS, NEV (May 17, 2008) -- Tracy Byrd issued the following statement today to fans and friends concerned about her husband Chris after last night's loss to Shaun George: "Chris is ok. His spirits are HIGH. He is closer to the Lord then ever in his life and trusts that he will take care of everything. Chris is disappointed in last night..

"He said he was feeling off in the dressing room. Felt like his legs weren't there from the beginning of the fight. When he got dropped in the first round he hurt his shoulder. We believe it tore a rotator cuff and ultimately dislocated his shoulder during the course of the fight. We will have it examined on Monday. The injury really kept him from throwing his left.

"When Chris returned to the dressing room the doctors had to sedate him to pop his shoulder back in. The medicines were a bit overwhelming for his body and they couldn't wake him. The result of that was they had to rush him by ambulance to the hospital and use other meds to counteract the ones given to him in the dressing room. It was very scary for his friends and family. But he came through. His shoulder is very sore but he is feeling better.

"Chris congratulates Shaun George on his victory and hopes he takes advantage of the opportunity of his victory to the fullest and continues to work hard. Shaun and his wife have a baby on the way and wishes them the best."



I don't know if I believe this story.I think there was something seriously wrong with Byrd and this was a cover up.This is just my opinion though.
Byrd Man
Why do you think that?
Warlord
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ May 17 2008, 04:16 AM) [snapback]389877[/snapback]
laugh.gif I might be wrong...but I think Warlord was referring to the poster who calls himself "Byrd Man".

Right on BG, I was indeed referring to the poster "Byrd Man." I guess I should've been clearer, though it escapes me how I could've been.

And Byrd Man, relax tiger, I know you weren't at home alone crying in sorrow. You probably had family there with you. I was just breaking your balls because I'm an asshole and your name is "Byrd Man." And when you have the name of a fighter in your screenname, and he gets brutally KO'd by a smaller fighter he was supposed to destroy... well, you gotta expect some fire for that shit.
Byrd Man
I don't know if he was supposed to "destroy" Shaun George, especially since most rational people realized he was coming down a lot of weight, and was fighting that way for the first time.

He was expected to win though. And yeah I'm getting used to the different types of posters in here. The kinds that are rational and mature (even in the ripping) and then the others who obsess over the idea of women fucking dudes in the ass and think that's actually hilarious to say or think.

I'm not taking any of it personally. Just realizing that this is kinda like an all ages club. Kids will be involved and it won't always be pleasant.
Warlord
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ May 17 2008, 09:06 PM) [snapback]389993[/snapback]
I don't know if he was supposed to "destroy" Shaun George, especially since most rational people realized he was coming down a lot of weight, and was fighting that way for the first time.

He was expected to win though. And yeah I'm getting used to the different types of posters in here. The kinds that are rational and mature (even in the ripping) and then the others who obsess over the idea of women fucking dudes in the ass and think that's actually hilarious to say or think.

I'm not taking any of it personally. Just realizing that this is kinda like an all ages club. Kids will be involved and it won't always be pleasant.

I tend to stay away from the ass ripping comments, as it has been done to death and I really don't think Byrd gets down like that. His wife isn't as tough (or attractive) as Jin Mosely, and I don't (usually) hear many people saying Shane takes it up the ass. I think Byrd gets it rough here because of his pitty-pat fighting style. I really don't give a shit though. I got no hate for Byrd; been watching him since his days on USA's Tuesday Night Fights.

I just like ragging on Byrd fans (both of them) for the same reason I like ragging on everyone else... because I'm an asshole and its in my blood. I'm glad you don't take it personally though, I can respect that. If I wanted it to be personal, you'd know it.
Byrd Man
besides, your picture (if I'm not mistaken) is a photoshop of Curse of the Golden Flower, no?

Big fan.

oh and screw you on the "both of them" line. lol. Tried to sneak that in there, huh?
sweetchuck
I was expecting them to say that Chris injured himself in the first round. Sounds like a lot of excuses...The type that might see Byrd in the ring again if the right opportunity comes along. Downplaying the passing out and saying that Chris hurt himself in the first round and admitting he felt flat are all good ways to come up with a reason to fight again.

When I think of Byrd, I think of Cuba Gooding Jr. Both of them are good people in the real world, both have impressive resumes in their field of work reaching the highest levels they can (Byrd heavyweight champ, Gooding an Oscar winner) and yet they don't have the respect that a lot of other people in their lines of work get.

And yeah, if I do get married, I will never let my wife be my manager because of the backlash I see Byrd and Mosley getting because their wives run their career. In reality most guys lives are ran by their wives.

Warlord
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ May 17 2008, 11:37 PM) [snapback]390012[/snapback]
besides, your picture (if I'm not mistaken) is a photoshop of Curse of the Golden Flower, no?

Big fan.

oh and screw you on the "both of them" line. lol. Tried to sneak that in there, huh?

Yeah, both of them. laugh.gif I thought you'd get a kick out of that.

My avatar is of Sun Wukong (The Monkey King) from Journey to the West. If it makes you feel any better though, Jay Chou (Prince Jai from Curse of the Golden Flower) is set to play Sun Wukong in an adaption of Journey to the West from Steven Spielberg.

I thought Curse of the Golden Flower was one of Zhang Yimou's weaker directorial efforts. The only thing I REALLY liked about it were Gong Li's big fucking tits. Check out some of Zhang's other wushu epics like Hero or House of Flying Daggers to see what he can really do.
Byrd Man
oh I've seen both of them.

I'm a HUGE Ziyi Zhang fan. love her to death.

Until recently I had a big collection of foreign dvds including Hero (the import uncut version), House of flying Daggers (USA version) Curse of the Golden Flower (both versions) and a flick called Banquet which was pretty cool with her in it. Plus 2046 but I never got around to watching it.
Byrd Man
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 18 2008, 01:54 AM) [snapback]390028[/snapback]
I was expecting them to say that Chris injured himself in the first round. Sounds like a lot of excuses...The type that might see Byrd in the ring again if the right opportunity comes along. Downplaying the passing out and saying that Chris hurt himself in the first round and admitting he felt flat are all good ways to come up with a reason to fight again.

When I think of Byrd, I think of Cuba Gooding Jr. Both of them are good people in the real world, both have impressive resumes in their field of work reaching the highest levels they can (Byrd heavyweight champ, Gooding an Oscar winner) and yet they don't have the respect that a lot of other people in their lines of work get.

And yeah, if I do get married, I will never let my wife be my manager because of the backlash I see Byrd and Mosley getting because their wives run their career. In reality most guys lives are ran by their wives.


Chris Byrd is Cuba Gooding Jr.? Fuck YOU Chuck! lol
TheWhiteBuffalo
....this is what happens when you throw your support behind a MORTAL man. You will always be disappointed at some point.
Byrd Man
You mean the steroid user Francois Botha? lol

BTW: who the fuck wrote his wikipedia? His girlfriend?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francois_Both...o_Boxing_Career

Read the pro boxing section....I swear to God that's the most biased piece of shit I've ever seen. I don't know much about Botha, but just the wording and phrasing in that is highly suspect and filled with opinions. lol

QUOTE
One of his most notable fights was against Shannon Briggs, the latter having dominated the first half of the fight, knocking Botha down, Botha rose off the canvas and delivered a one, one, two punch successfully again and again, bloodying Briggs's face and earning a draw, although most people thought Botha was aggressive enough to win the fight. Botha had a victory in 1995 against Germany's Axel Schulz to win the International Boxing Federation World Heavyweight Championship, but later tested positive for the steroid nandrolone [1]he and his camp claimed to be prescribed by a doctor for an arm injury. The result of the fight was then changed to a No contest and Botha was stripped of the title.

"The White Buffalo" bounced back with a courageous effort with Michael Moorer for the IBF crown on the undercard of Mike Tyson's first contest with Evander Holyfield. Botha, battled fatigue, facing a more skilled fighter than himself, and showing much heart, courage, and determination, earned him bigger fights down the road. This eventually led to the aforementioned fights with Mike Tyson, and Shannon Briggs, and World Title showdowns with Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko. Botha came up on the short end via knockout in both of those encounters, but it cannot go unsaid to his credit he was fighting against hometown crowds on both occasions.

Frans Botha fought distinguished contender Clifford Etienne, and knocked him down twice, but was again denied a victory and received a majority draw. Once again, this was in Etienne's hometown. Both retired after the bout and pursued a career in mixed marial arts.
Byrd Man
btw: not ripping Botha just pointing that out is all. lol
BrutalBodyShots
I don't really think it's biased. Everything it says is factual and on point IMO.

Byrd Man
but when you inject your own opinions into it such as "he showed much courage, etc etc" that's biased. But it IS Wikipedia which can be edited by anyone and there's very little oversight it seems.

And that's not a knock on Botha, I'm sure he's a great guy and seemed to have had a pretty good career.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(sweetchuck @ May 18 2008, 02:54 AM) [snapback]390028[/snapback]
And yeah, if I do get married, I will never let my wife be my manager because of the backlash I see Byrd and Mosley getting because their wives run their career. In reality most guys lives are ran by their wives.


There's a difference between letting a wife be your manager and letting her be your mouthpiece. You can ask the question, who is DLH's manager?? I dont know, cause I never see him. His manager lets his fighter get all the press and be the face that answer's the questions. When it comes to Mosley,(not nearly as much Byrd), you see his manager step up and speak as much or more than you see him. Just an observation.

Also, so as to not insult either one of these 2 fighters. It doesnt make them less of a man, its just the way they handle their business. Both are great fighers and gentlemen...
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