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Full Version: What would Roy Have to do to be Calzaghe
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KingEugene
First of all I think its possible for him to win. Now before you boxing fans/RJJ haters start bashing him remember I'm asking what would it take for him to win. Now me personally I dont think Calzaghe is as good as every one is making him out to be but I do think he is a good fighter. He has a high work rate, a lot of heart, and a strong will to win. After watching the Hopkins fight I'm still not a fan but I respect the fact that he did win the fight even though I though Hopkins won cause he was more effective even though he didnt land as much. Plus he was never hurt (but its rare Calzaghe hurts anyone with those slaps). But I think if Roy lets it go the distance he dont have a high chance in winning but if he hurts Calzaghe somewhere during the fight he'll end up finishing him off. We all know he didnt finish Trinidad cause of that torn bicep and cause Roy rarely attacks hard after a knock down anyway (watch all 58 fights like I have over and over you'll notice that) cause he is such a cautious fighter. But I feel that he knows the only way by win is by knockout or stoppage and he can pull it off. What do you guys think.

Oh and this is my first post

RRJ still pound for pound number one to me.
Fitz
QUOTE(KingEugene @ May 30 2008, 12:21 PM) [snapback]390857[/snapback]
I'm asking what would it take for him to win.


Find a time machine.
KingEugene
QUOTE(Fitz @ May 29 2008, 11:00 PM) [snapback]390860[/snapback]
Find a time machine.



LMAO. I'm a have to disagree with that one.
EAlbian
he would have to back him up first and land hard power shots while he has his legs. His being able to move in and out and land hard shots before calzaghe gets in his rythem is key for his victory, Roy has a new tendency of laying on the ropes and if he does he will get frusterated and the points will build up. I don't know if RJJ still has it in him but it is possible, i think Pavlik has the best oportunity to beat him because of his style of impossing his will on others, his solid defense, and his clean effective punching power. He was sizably(probally not a real word) bigger than Taylor and Taylor looked bigger than Hopkins and Hopkins was bigger than Calzaghe. Everyone can keep saying that Pavlik is one dimensional but when he gets you going backward and and in his range its hard to stop him and Calzaghe's defence is his offence.
Fitz
QUOTE(KingEugene @ May 30 2008, 12:21 PM) [snapback]390857[/snapback]
Oh and this is my first post

RRJ still pound for pound number one to me.


Welcome to the board.

But....you don't seriously believe he is p4p number 1? Or is that just a way of saying that he is your favourite fighter and always will be?

To me, RJJ would have beaten Calazghe years back, but not now. He just doesn't have the legs or the work rate (his work rate seriously isn't much better than Hopkins at this stage, he just looks busier by the way he show boats) and he definitely doesn't have the heart or the burning desire anymore. If there was ever one fight where RJJ was going to pull out one last great performance and his chance to prove himself, it was the 3rd Tarver fight. To be honest, he didn't even have to win the fight just put up a good fight and give 110%. Jones put on a performance he should be embarrassed about (2nd half of the fight anyways). If he couldn't get up for the 3rd Tarver fight, he can't get up for anymore.
Like I said, he is old, has no legs or heart and it's why you see him lay on the ropes. It's not because he is effective like Toney or Mayweather, it's because he doesn't have legs.
Then look at the Trinidad fight. He should have done so much more with the Trinidad he had in front of him. He barely did anything, his work rate was once again quite bad, but he tried to disguise it with the show boating and try to give the impression it's how he wanted it to be.
It's not a coincidence that he has looked like garbage against B level fighters and great against C level fighters. That should be a good indication.
buford54
To win this fight, Roy would have to visit the land of Oz and ask the wizard for a heart.
He's never needed to show heart before because of his level of talent. As soon as the going gets tough, he lays on the ropes and lets people pound on him.
If memory serves, his comments after the 3rd Tarver fight were something along the lines of considering the fight a success because Tarver didn't knock him out.

If his attitude is one of going to England and not getting ko'd...then he has zero chance.
Otherwise, he needs to catch Joe cold and put him down about 5 times early in the fight so that he can give away the last 6 rounds and still win. Even then he wouldn't get the decision because he'd be in Joe's hometown.
Really, he needs to knock Joe down and show some killer instinct and try to finish him early.
Otherwise, he either loses a UD or get's ko'd, late.
D-MARV
QUOTE(buford54 @ May 30 2008, 08:09 AM) [snapback]390883[/snapback]
To win this fight, Roy would have to visit the land of Oz and ask the wizard for a heart.
He's never needed to show heart before because of his level of talent. As soon as the going gets tough, he lays on the ropes and lets people pound on him.
If memory serves, his comments after the 3rd Tarver fight were something along the lines of considering the fight a success because Tarver didn't knock him out.

If his attitude is one of going to England and not getting ko'd...then he has zero chance.
Otherwise, he needs to catch Joe cold and put him down about 5 times early in the fight so that he can give away the last 6 rounds and still win. Even then he wouldn't get the decision because he'd be in Joe's hometown.
Really, he needs to knock Joe down and show some killer instinct and try to finish him early.
Otherwise, he either loses a UD or get's ko'd, late.

Jones showed heart in the first Tarver fight! RJJ has heart. He doesn't have Gatti's heart but he does have heart.

The rest of your statement I do agree with. I think he would have to catch Calzaghe with something crazy in the beginning. But like many I see Calzaghe winning this fight by a wide decision with Roy fighting a cautious fight.
blackbelt2003
Stylistically, Joe matches up well for RJ. Roy likes to sit back, find holes and pop in hard counters. Guys who come forwards are the ones he likes.


Having said that, look at the disaster that was the Glen Johnson fight. Again, stylistically, that was a fight Roy should have won. Instead he got pugilistically RAPED. Although Calzaghe doesn't carry the intensity or power Johnson has, he should still have enough to win.


Roy might win a few rounds and land a few solid shots on Joe's whiskers, but at the end he'll do just enough to lose, and still find time to pat himself on the back for 'going the distance'.


Sad, because 10 years ago Roy would have had NOOOOOOOOOOO problem with Joe, Tarver OR Johnson.


Black
Method
Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell RegDumb!
U.S. Champ
Honestly why are we having this conversation Joe doesn't want to fight Roy Look at all his excuses. From listening to some of these posts I thought Joe was the best thing since Ali but he's not and if all of your points are true a one armed Roy would've got knocked out by Trinidad but he didn't. So now everybody's on the Calzaghe bandwagon which is about to crash, the truth is Roy hasn't lost his Power, Accuracy, Hand speed or Heart which adds up to a lopsided loss for the Welshman. My advice for Calzaghe go fight Pavlik and retire undefeated because if you shake the tree that Roy has climbed you'll be face to face with a full grown Lion not a pretty sight. The only way Joe wins is if he contacts Balco and suddenly gains more than Welterweight power. Matter of fact Floyd could probably drop Joe
buford54
Roy fought Tito after a 2-year layoff and 10 pounds over his heaviest weight.
Roy may not have lost all of those things completely, but he has lost some of his confidence, and that was the key to domination. He's also lost a step in speed. So he's spending most of his time trying not to get hit, and he's still getting hit by shots that never would have touched him before. That's not a recipe for victory.

Trust me...this would be the first time in my life that I've pulled for Roy. I don't want Calzaghe to retire undefeated, because he's spent his entire career fighting nobodies in his hometown...and don't think he deserves to retire undefeated. He was surrounded by Hopkins, Jones, Tito, Michaelzewski, even Ottke and other champs in his prime, and he never fought any of them. He was fighting Will "Kid Fire" McCintyre instead. Only now since Roy has lost a few, and Hopkins has lost a few, and they both just turned 80, is he willing to try his hand at fighting them.

That said, Roy has not looked that hot, and one win over a corpse of Tito Trinidad doesn't convince me that he's ready to go back in there and dominate like he did over the Glenn Kellys and David Telescos of the world.

Let it also be noted, Roy didn't fight any of those guys in his prime either. He was busy fighting mandatories during his best years.
Al Hata

Roy has the heart, he just doesn't have the balls.
Boxingjunkie
Just show up!!
U.S. Champ
I watch all the fights in High Definition believe me Roy still has the hand speed and pitty pat punches as referred to by Roy will not stop him from letting his hands go homie, Roy Wins Sign it Seal it Ship it.
KingEugene
QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ May 30 2008, 12:51 PM) [snapback]390899[/snapback]
Honestly why are we having this conversation Joe doesn't want to fight Roy Look at all his excuses. From listening to some of these posts I thought Joe was the best thing since Ali but he's not and if all of your points are true a one armed Roy would've got knocked out by Trinidad but he didn't. So now everybody's on the Calzaghe bandwagon which is about to crash, the truth is Roy hasn't lost his Power, Accuracy, Hand speed or Heart which adds up to a lopsided loss for the Welshman. My advice for Calzaghe go fight Pavlik and retire undefeated because if you shake the tree that Roy has climbed you'll be face to face with a full grown Lion not a pretty sight. The only way Joe wins is if he contacts Balco and suddenly gains more than Welterweight power. Matter of fact Floyd could probably drop Joe



Thank you thank you thank you...bout time somebody really saw the reality of this thing.
Fitz
QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ May 31 2008, 02:51 AM) [snapback]390899[/snapback]
the truth is Roy hasn't lost his Power, Accuracy, Hand speed or Heart which adds up to a lopsided loss for the Welshman.


So you think he just lost to naturally better fighters in Johnson and Tarver? Thanks for clearing that up.
KingEugene
QUOTE(Fitz @ May 30 2008, 09:33 PM) [snapback]390944[/snapback]
So you think he just lost to naturally better fighters in Johnson and Tarver? Thanks for clearing that up.



Better overall no...but that night they where just the better men. Every dog has his day, or two.
Fitz
QUOTE(KingEugene @ May 31 2008, 02:56 PM) [snapback]390955[/snapback]
Better overall no...but that night they where just the better men. Every dog has his day, or two.


So you still think it's the same Jones as the one from 5+ years ago?
Method
RegDumb. RegDumb.
D-MARV
I have been I huge RJJ fan my whole life and I can tell you that this version of Roy is ony a fraction of what he was 5 years ago! Roy has been shot every since the first Tarver fight and He has declined in every fight since. No way Trinidad would have lasted against a Prime Roy. No way Hanshaw would have lasted against a prime Roy. Roy's hand speed is still above average but His work rate is way to low to be competative with any top guys in the weight class. Roy doesn't have the ring smarts or defense that Hopkins have so you couple that with the work rate then that spells doom for Roy.

With that being said I feel that his only chance to beat Calzaghe is by catching him with something early that either knocks Calzaghe out or be hard enough to slow Calzghe's work rate.I dont think Calzaghe's chin is very good and Roy still carries enough power to hurt him. Let;s not forgot that Roy has had his opponent hurt in his last 4 fights but he just didn't have enough to finish the job.
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(Fitz @ May 30 2008, 08:33 PM) [snapback]390944[/snapback]
So you think he just lost to naturally better fighters in Johnson and Tarver? Thanks for clearing that up.

Everybody knows the weight loss affected his speed, strength and stamina but being a true Roy Jones fan I think Tarver and Johnson would have given him much more problems then anticipated in his prime face it they both can fight not to mention they both have good whiskers. We all know that Ali was the greatest but we don't name drop Norton, Frazier, Spinks or Holmes anytime we make reference, the reason why is because they all were champions so please stop knocking Roy and give Tarver and Johnson there just due and acknowledge that Roy is Truly one of the greatest fighters ever period.
imperial
Roy's handspeed is still better than Joe's and he still throws a much better punch than Joe .


I still give this version of Roy a hell of a shot since I beleive that Joe's last 2 opponents Roy could have beat as well.Only thing that works in Joe's favor right now is that he's still undefeated and Roy's best yrs are behind him but im not convinced that Joe beats this version of Roy so easily !
KingEugene
QUOTE(imperial @ Jun 2 2008, 08:57 PM) [snapback]391228[/snapback]
Roy's handspeed is still better than Joe's and he still throws a much better punch than Joe .
I still give this version of Roy a hell of a shot since I beleive that Joe's last 2 opponents Roy could have beat as well.Only thing that works in Joe's favor right now is that he's still undefeated and Roy's best yrs are behind him but im not convinced that Joe beats this version of Roy so easily !



THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
D-MARV
I give Roy a chance but he has got to work...

None of this Bullsh*t laying on the ropes. Calzaghe is too active for that and he will get credit even if he isn't landing. (See Hopkins, Manfredo, etc)
Roy has got to find a way to keep this fight in the middle of the ring. Calzaghe's defense is not great so Roy can land his straight right and his "Classic" left hook. Calzghe is not a power puncher so Roy should let his hands go a little more. Roy's still has quick hands and some pop to back it up and I think he can hurt Calzaghe.

But despite all of this, I just don't think Roy has the legs or drive to pull it off. So logic tells me that Calzaghe would win via UD
imperial
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 2 2008, 09:59 PM) [snapback]391240[/snapback]
I give Roy a chance but he has got to work...

None of this Bullsh*t laying on the ropes. Calzaghe is too active for that and he will get credit even if he isn't landing. (See Hopkins, Manfredo, etc)
Roy has got to find a way to keep this fight in the middle of the ring. Calzaghe's defense is not great so Roy can land his straight right and his "Classic" left hook. Calzghe is not a power puncher so Roy should let his hands go a little more. Roy's still has quick hands and some pop to back it up and I think he can hurt Calzaghe.

But despite all of this, I just don't think Roy has the legs or drive to pull it off. So logic tells me that Calzaghe would win via UD



Roy not lay on the ropes ? You really think he won;t do that ? He has done that in every single fight he's sbeen in ..The good thing is that if Tito couldn't knock Roy's head off when he laid on the ropes im confident Joe won't !What works in Roy's favor is Joe is easiy hit what works against Roy is Joe's work rate ..Once he turns it on its hard to slow him down but then again Joe has never been in a fight with a fighter with the hand speed of Jones ..I do agree about his legs he may have lost a step but not enough to lose a fight by UD to Joe ..
Tha Docta
roy didnt show a whole lot of power against tito either. i thought roy would be able to bang a little more at the lower weight but that isnt the case. he had tito wobbled with a temple shot but other than that there wasnt much.

roy would get his face slapped silly in this one. i think he loses a decision but his face will look like someone was throwing golf balls at it.
D-MARV
QUOTE(imperial @ Jun 3 2008, 02:03 PM) [snapback]391302[/snapback]
Roy not lay on the ropes ? You really think he won;t do that ? He has done that in every single fight he's sbeen in ..The good thing is that if Tito couldn't knock Roy's head off when he laid on the ropes im confident Joe won't

I think Calzaghe who is a legit Super MIddle, who throws laser straight shots mixed with slaps would be able to do more damage than a wide-loopping, semi-retired blown up welterweight in tito.

What I meant by "Roy laying on the ropes" is that he can't afford to do that with a fighter like Joe. Cuz unlike Tito, who may have thrown 3 or 4 shots, Calzaghe would throw 10-15 maybe even 20 unanswered shots. Sure they might be slaps but you best believe that the judges would award him the round.
Douchebag
Start taking HGH.
BigG
Roy in his prime would have killed Calslappy - no question. Roy was just flat out better/greater.

Today's Roy would lose a UD. Jones is still the sharper/quicker/harder puncher, but he's slower now, lost reflexes, and is almost 40. Roy would need to keep the fight in the middle of the ring...but Roy is backed up into the ropes in EVERY fight these days and Calslappy would slap him there and score points. Roy might let his hands go though because of Joe's lack of pop.
neophyte7
Hopkins beat Calzaghe... had him down and was barley hit cleanly 10 times in the face the whole night--- That being said Roy Jones should go for the KO--- Cal can be hurt and dropped--- Roy has better power than Hopkins-- but Roy does not have anywhwere near the defense of Hopkins... I Think Roy can withstand the Calzaghe slaps and should go in there to land power shots early with his speed advantage.

Really I have never been a Roy fan, but Calzaghe talked as if he was a world beater after the Hopkins bout-- Legend Killer LOL this guy was on his ass in his american debut soooo fast Roy should go after him early. Calzaghe would have garnered more respect y admitting that he eeked by rather than calling himself a legend killer-- he could barely lay a glove and was put down by a 43 year old fighter-- Roy should go for the KO
neophyte7
Hopkins beat Calzaghe... had him down and was barley hit cleanly 10 times in the face the whole night--- That being said Roy Jones should go for the KO--- Cal can be hurt and dropped--- Roy has better power than Hopkins-- but Roy does not have anywhwere near the defense of Hopkins... I Think Roy can withstand the Calzaghe slaps and should go in there to land power shots early with his speed advantage.

Really I have never been a Roy fan, but Calzaghe talked as if he was a world beater after the Hopkins bout-- Legend Killer LOL this guy was on his ass in his american debut soooo fast Roy should go after him early. Calzaghe would have garnered more respect y admitting that he eeked by rather than calling himself a legend killer-- he could barely lay a glove and was put down by a 43 year old fighter-- Roy should go for the KO
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Method @ May 30 2008, 01:27 PM) [snapback]390888[/snapback]
Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell RegDumb!


Reg was like Arthur Ashe but he never got his chance. Whitey held him back.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ Jun 1 2008, 04:37 PM) [snapback]391051[/snapback]
Everybody knows the weight loss affected his speed, strength and stamina but being a true Roy Jones fan I think Tarver and Johnson would have given him much more problems then anticipated in his prime face it they both can fight not to mention they both have good whiskers.


What you really mean is because he could not get his roids he failed to perform up to his usual standard.



QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ Jun 1 2008, 04:37 PM) [snapback]391051[/snapback]
We all know that Ali was the greatest but we don't name drop Norton, Frazier, Spinks or Holmes anytime we make reference, the reason why is because they all were champions so please stop knocking Roy and give Tarver and Johnson there just due and acknowledge that Roy is Truly one of the greatest fighters ever period.


I don't classify Clay as "the greatest", he is one of the greatest & unlike Roid he actually displayed chin & heart when his speed left him. I will never acknowledge Roid as one of the greatest unless you want to say one of the greatest frauds of all time.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jun 4 2008, 10:27 PM) [snapback]391422[/snapback]
Reg was like Arthur Ashe but he never got his chance. Whitey held him back.

damn the man.

Reg_One = Barrack Obama
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jun 4 2008, 10:38 PM) [snapback]391423[/snapback]
I don't classify Clay as "the greatest",

His momma name him Clay, Steve gonna call him Clay.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Jun 5 2008, 02:51 AM) [snapback]391425[/snapback]
His momma name him Clay, Steve gonna call him Clay.


Damm straight. I am much bigger fan of Frazier than Clay.

Then again no one can test da Broxton Bomba no one!

P4P & Roy is runnin from da Bomba like all da heavyweights are.

Westside
D-MARV
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jun 4 2008, 10:38 PM) [snapback]391423[/snapback]
What you really mean is because he could not get his roids he failed to perform up to his usual standard.
I don't classify Clay as "the greatest", he is one of the greatest & unlike Roid he actually displayed chin & heart when his speed left him. I will never acknowledge Roid as one of the greatest unless you want to say one of the greatest frauds of all time.

Method
QUOTE
Roy's handspeed is still better than Joe's and he still throws a much better punch than Joe .


Roy's one-punch hand speed may be better than Joe's, and it's true, Roy throws a better punch than Joe, but Joe WAY, WAY, WAAAAAAAY too busy for Roy. If Glen Johnson can overwhelm Roy with Activity, then Joe CalSlappy will completely drown him in a sea of activity.
D-MARV
Why isn't there any talk of Calzaghe-Glen Johnson. They were scheduled to fight 2 times before and both times Calzaghe pulled out because of injury. Is Joe C ducking JOhnson?
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 5 2008, 10:46 AM) [snapback]391446[/snapback]
Why isn't there any talk of Calzaghe-Glen Johnson. They were scheduled to fight 2 times before and both times Calzaghe pulled out because of injury. Is Joe C ducking JOhnson?

Of course Joe's ducking Johnson. The same way all the big names at or around the weight class are ducking Johnson. Seriously, for these old fighters looking at their last couple of big paydays, why would they choose Johnson as one of their opponents? He's still as tough as anyone and he won't get you paid the same. Sad but true - the Joe Calzaghe's, Roy Jones's, Antonio Tarver's of the world have no incentive at this stage of the game to fight GJ.

Oh, and there's nothing Roy can do to beat Calzaghe. He'd be a dead goose halfway through that fight. There's no way he can keep up with the slapping Welshmen, who would no doubt stop him with a flurry of unanswered slaps against the ropes somewhere around the 8th-9th rounds.
Miagi
... find a time machine. I can't see Today's version of Jones beating Calzaghe. He's too flat footed, lazy, and rope friendly - otherwise known as "old." Had this been Calzaghe instead of Trinidad, Jones would have been relentlessly sliced and diced.



buford54
I think Roy sits around reading headlines about himself from 2001 and watching his fight against Glen Kelly. Unrealistic expectations.
neophyte7
Bullshit--- Calzaghe has zero power and at times looks like a highschool girl with his punches. He was down to Hopkins too quickly for me not to give Jones a chance at stopping--- possibly early. Cals slaps are just what they have been described as; SLAPS
alaganza
As much as I would like to see Roy make 1 last push for the title, he doesn't have it in him anymore.

i think it's a mental thing.
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Jun 4 2008, 09:51 PM) [snapback]391425[/snapback]
His momma name him Clay, Steve gonna call him Clay.

You saw what happened to Floyd Patterson for calling him clay and and as for Roy " Ya'll must've forget"
imperial
QUOTE(alaganza @ Jun 6 2008, 06:18 PM) [snapback]391583[/snapback]
As much as I would like to see Roy make 1 last push for the title, he doesn't have it in him anymore.

i think it's a mental thing.



Hmm did you watch his last 3 fights ?
JD
QUOTE(KingEugene @ May 29 2008, 10:21 PM) [snapback]390857[/snapback]
I'm asking what would it take for him to win.


Get really good at Fight Night and play him at that.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE(imperial @ Jun 9 2008, 08:46 PM) [snapback]392002[/snapback]
Hmm did you watch his last 3 fights ?


Yup and they were all crap (and I include his 'win' over doughnut loving Tito Trinidad who had NO business fighting at 170 pounds).

Roy was a ring genius, emphasis on the word WAS.

It reminds me of Tyson fans after his 1989 peak (and I was one of them) religously believing that Mike had ONE last effort left in him.

Turned out he didn't, and neither does Roy.

D-MARV
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Jun 10 2008, 08:30 AM) [snapback]392029[/snapback]
Yup and they were all crap (and I include his 'win' over doughnut loving Tito Trinidad who had NO business fighting at 170 pounds).

Roy was a ring genius, emphasis on the word WAS.

It reminds me of Tyson fans after his 1989 peak (and I was one of them) religously believing that Mike had ONE last effort left in him.

Turned out he didn't, and neither does Roy.

Winky Wright was the doughnut lover! Tito likes his momma's homemade chicken soup!
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