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thehype
Undisputed middleweight champion Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins and boxing promoter Don King are in the middle of a significant legal battle, the ramifications of which could dictate how long the marriage between Hopkins and Golden Boy Promotions lasts, whether or not he fights Jermain Taylor next, and whether or not Don King still has promotional rights on the world's best pound for pound fighter. All this and much more, including detailed explainations as to why the Hopkins-Trinidad rematch collapsed. Check out the copies of the OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTS FROM THE ONGOING ARBITRATION, beginning with Hopkins attorney Arnold Joseph being questioned by DKP's newest legal eagle, Judd Burstein.....

The transcripts were originally from April, 2005...I'm trying to dig them up and if I find them, I'll post them here.
thehype
2349
1
2 ARBITRATION PROCEEDINGS
3 AMERICAN ARBITRATION ASSOCIATION
4 -- --------------------------------------x
5 In the Matter of the Arbitration
6 Between
7 BERNARD HOPKINS, JR.,
8 Claimant-Counterclaim Respondent,
9 -and-
10 DON KING and DON KING
11 PRODUCTIONS, INC.,
12 Respondents-Counterclaimants.
13 Case No. 13-140-Y-00557-04
14 ----------------------------------------x
15 April 6, 2005
16 9:09 a.m.
17 1633 Broadway
18 New York, New York
19
20 B E F O R E:
21 JAMES H. CARTER, ESQ., Chairman
22
23 JOE DANYO, Hearing Reporter
24
25
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1
2 A p p e a r a n c e s:
3
4
5 For the Claimant-Counterclaim Respondent:
6 PODHURST ORSECK, P.A.
7 25 West Flagler Street, Suite 800
8 Miami, Florida 33130
9 BY: MICHAEL S. OLIN, ESQ.,
10 -and-
11 STEPHEN F. ROSENTHAL, ESQ.
12
13
14 For the Claimant-Counterclaim Respondent:
15 COZEN & O'CONNOR, LLP
16 1900 Market Street
17 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103
18 BY: ARNOLD C. JOSEPH, ESQ.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1
2 A p p e a r a n c e s:
3
4 For the Claimant-Counterclaim Respondent:
5 FRIEDMAN KAPLAN SEILER & ADELMAN LLP
6 1633 Broadway
7 New York, New York 10019-6708
8 BY: SHEILA V. FLYNN, ESQ.,
9 -and-
10 KATHERINE PRINGLE, ESQ.
11 Of Counsel
12
13 For the Respondents-Counterclaimants:
14 JUDD BURSTEIN, P.C.
15 1790 Broadway
16 New York, New York 10019
17 BY: JUDD BURSTEIN, ESQ.,
18 -and-
19 MICHAEL QUINN, ESQ.
20
21 ALSO PRESENT:
22 BERNARD HOPKINS, JR.
23 JOHN S. WIRT, ESQ.
24 JOSE SANTOS, The Videographer
25
2352
1
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Good morning, everyone.
3 We just had a telephone call from Judge
4 Schackman who has advised he is not feeling
5 well today and therefore will not be able to
6 be present at today's hearing, and I gather,
7 Mr. Olin, you would like to take a recess so
8 you can obtain video equipment and make a
9 videotape of the cross-examination?
10 MR. OLIN: Yes, sir.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Yesterday, we were left
12 with the issue of an affidavit that Mr.
13 Burstein wanted to offer. Do you want to
14 make your offer and do your objection now?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: Sure.
16 MR. OLIN: That is fine.
17 MR. BURSTEIN: We have an affidavit
18 from Michel Acaries who was the head of AB
19 Stars. Mr. Acaries, we were having a
20 dispute about it, was going to come in to
21 testify. He has had triple bypass surgery.
22 He can't come. He really couldn't have
23 anybody from his office come. We have an
24 affidavit which for the most part is more
25 about sort of creating a foundation for
2353
1
2 documents than it is about anything else,
3 because what Mr. Acaries' affidavit says is
4 that on October 2, which is before the
5 October 4 agreement, he submitted and AB
6 Stars requested the WBC send him the purse
7 bid documents on an urgent basis, and we
8 have that document which you can see the fax
9 header is October 2. We will have better
10 copies of it. We are getting the originals
11 today by FedEx.
12 Then he says that on October 6, after
13 the October 4 letter agreement was signed,
14 what happened was Dana Jamison called him in
15 France. He wasn't there and they spoke
16 because he was in Japan. What we have as
17 another exhibit is Dana Jamison's phone
18 record, and he confirms that the two numbers
19 that Dana Jamison was calling in France was
20 his mobile phone and his phone number, which
21 is consistent with what Ms. Jamison said.
22 And then the third document is the actual
23 purse bid that was sent in, and you can see
24 from the fax header it is essentially the
25 same time that the DKP submission went in.
2354
1
2 There is some added factual material
3 in the affidavit which in essence is I spoke
4 to Ms. Jamison. I told her we were going to
5 go forward with the purse bid and that she
6 had tried to see if it could get done.
7 Whether you take the whole affidavit
8 or just use it for foundational purposes, I
9 would ask you to do so, and I think,
10 Michael, I don't think we have had one issue
11 in this case with respect to foundation.
12 I will represent that the fax copies
13 they have confirmed and in fact I got those
14 fax copies in the first instance from the
15 WBC themselves, Ms. Jamison's phone record,
16 and I think it should come in.
17 In the end I'm not quite sure what the
18 significance of it all is, because my
19 argument about the integration clause, in
20 fact, Mr. Hopkins testified that Mr. Hopkins
21 never signed that agreement.
22 Mr. Hopkins testified yesterday that
23 he never knew of any agreement for $750,000
24 and 50 percent of the gate, but, to the
25 extent -- I am wary of making the argument
2355
1
2 because I know Mr. Olin is going to come
3 back and say because I am just so desperate
4 about the horrendous condition of my case,
5 but I am just trying to fill in any gap, and
6 the issue here is really what is the truth.
7 Even if you ignore -- I am happy to
8 offer this with the understanding that you
9 will ignore the substantive, if that is your
10 inclination, I think you can take it for
11 what it is worth, but at a minimum it should
12 be accepted, because the underlying
13 documents tell a story, that there can't be
14 any dispute about at least with respect to
15 the authenticity of the document.
16 MR. OLIN: There are a number of
17 problems I have with this. The list is as
18 long as my arm. First of all, it is no
19 surprise to anybody for months that AB Stars
20 was and Michel Acaries was a potential
21 witness in this case and, yet, despite what
22 we now have, he was never listed nor anybody
23 from his office nor any documents from his
24 file were ever listed or disclosed prior to
25 the start of this trial.
2356
1
2 In fact, it was the defendant's
3 position prior to the start of this trial
4 and even at this trial, that, as you will
5 hear soon, Mr. King, Ms. Jamison had no idea
6 why the purse bid went forward except that
7 they blamed Arnold Joseph for not following
8 through on the October 4 agreement and that
9 it was Arnold Joseph who breached the
10 October 4 agreement by not canceling the
11 purse bid.
12 They then in the middle of trial when
13 presented with a letter that they obviously
14 had forgotten about went 180 degrees on that
15 and were caught with their hands in the
16 cookie jar and said, well, we only did the
17 purse bid which they insisted on because we
18 couldn't make a deal with Mr. Acaries, when
19 the prior testimony from Ms. Jamison was we
20 had a deal with Mr. Acaries, and in fact you
21 have in this record a contract with Mr.
22 Acaries for the services of Moorad Hakkar
23 for the August 17 bout which has a 120-day
24 delay provision in it which we will point
25 out.
2357
1
2 Mr. Acaries was not disclosed as a
3 potential witness until well after the first
4 six days of this trial had gone on. I can
5 imagine, if we were in a court of law and
6 somebody said, oh, by the way, I want to
7 change my case by adding a new witness with
8 new documents after six days of testimony
9 which include essentially my entire case
10 because I have put no witnesses on since we
11 have come back. My case was all essentially
12 done before we came back. I want to put in
13 a new witness. I'm not going to make any
14 discovery available. I'm not going to let
15 you have access to his files. I'm not going
16 to let you see any of these things. You are
17 just going to have to take it on faith that
18 what I am giving you is true and complete.
19 Now I have no doubt that Mr. Burstein
20 would not represent any of these documents
21 as being something other than what they are.
22 On the other hand, I don't know Mr. Acaries.
23 Frankly, I have reason to doubt Mr. King's
24 organization. Mr. King has put in writing
25 that he has reasons to doubt Mr. Acaries'
2358
1
2 organization, based on Exhibit 140, which
3 your Honor already has saying that we don't
4 trust Mr. Acaries. Everything from him has
5 to be in writing. You saw that which was a
6 letter from Ms. Jamison.
7 We have had no opportunity to depose
8 these people. We have had no opportunity to
9 test these things. We have no idea whether
10 there are contrary documents out there.
11 It is completely unfair to us to
12 accept these at this point.
13 I might also note that Mr. Acaries is
14 affirming and trying to get into evidence
15 Ms. Jamison's phone records. I don't know
16 if you read this or not, but it is almost
17 laughable. Mr. Acaries is vouching for Ms.
18 Jamison's phone records.
19 MR. BURSTEIN: That is not what he is
20 saying. He is saying the numbers on there
21 are his telephone numbers.
22 MR. OLIN: He says next is a copy of
23 Ms. Jamison's phone bill.
24 MR. BURSTEIN: But are you going to
25 realistically doubt that that is Ms.
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1
2 Jamison's phone bill?
3 MR. OLIN: I have no idea.
4 MR. BURSTEIN: Do you want me to call
5 Ms. Jamison up and say is that your phone
6 record? That is silly.
7 MR. OLIN: I have no idea, but that
8 was drafted here to deal with a problem of
9 their own making with their own witnesses to
10 try and make a comeback attempt on something
11 that they cannot possibly escape from, which
12 is misstatements under oath in deposition
13 and at trial to try and put another spin on
14 it to our prejudice when we can't even have
15 the opportunity to test it.
16 We object to it.
17 MR. BURSTEIN: May I respond?
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
19 MR. BURSTEIN: They have known -- as
20 Mr. Olin just said, they have known about
21 Mr. Acaries since last December. We told him
22 we were going to be calling Mr. Acaries. At
23 no time did they request any information
24 about Mr. Acaries, at no time just like with
25 Mr. Warren did they ever say, you know, we
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1
2 have got three and a half months, let's see
3 what you have from Acaries and let's have a
4 deposition.
5 I would have never objected to a
6 deposition. I was prepared to go to France
7 if they had asked, so to the extent they say
8 that they were left out in the cold, it is a
9 completely self-inflicted wound. There was
10 nothing that stopped Mr. Olin from asking
11 for discovery.
12 The fact is that the deposition
13 testimony is not altogether clear, because
14 Ms. Jamison, until I showed her that
15 contract, she doesn't really know or
16 remember what had happened, and, again,
17 whatever the truth is should come out.
18 You can weigh this, understanding that
19 he has not been subject to
20 cross-examination, but if I am representing
21 to you that -- I remember at one point I
22 said during this trial I had a question
23 about authenticity, and Michael said, do you
24 really want me to have to call somebody from
25 the WBC to come up here and authenticate a
2361
1
2 record, and I said no.
3 That is the same thing because,
4 although I have had Mr. Acaries authenticate
5 those two bid documents, I am representing
6 that they came from the WBC, so we have
7 those two documents which reflect documents
8 sent by Mr. Acaries to the WBC.
9 With respect to the Dana Jamison phone
10 record, do I really need to call Ms. Jamison
11 up to say yes, this is my phone record, when
12 in fact the only reason I have Mr. Acaries
13 attesting to it is because Ms. Jamison, I
14 can't say I know this is the Acaries number,
15 but Mr. Acaries can say that.
16 Whatever inferences you want to draw
17 from that on an issue which I think is
18 ultimately an unimportant issue in the case
19 you can draw.
20 Whether or not Mr. King gave testimony
21 that he can be impeached with, because it is
22 not consistent with what actually happened,
23 he has every right to do it, but that is a
24 different question from in an arbitration,
25 where the rules of evidence don't strictly
2362
1
2 apply and that is what the panels rule, that
3 you at least don't take the document.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Anything further to add
5 on it?
6 MR. OLIN: No, except to say --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: You still disagree.
8 MR. OLIN: I disagree, but I'm not
9 arguing with Mr. Burstein except I can't
10 read them, so I have no idea what they say,
11 so I certainly object on the ground that I
12 can't read what it is that is coming in.
13 MR. BURSTEIN: I will have a much
14 better copy of that.
15 MR. OLIN: But it is not the document.
16 It is the whole procedure, new witnesses
17 after the fact, and I believe you first
18 disclosed Mr. Acaries on February 22.
19 MR. BURSTEIN: I don't think so, Mike.
20 I know it was earlier. It may not have been
21 in writing, but I told you I would have to
22 bring Acaries in, and again it is a rebuttal
23 witness. I wasn't bound to identify a
24 rebuttal witness.
25 They on their case raised this whole
2363
1
2 issue of Don King being the person who
3 scuttled this purse bid. In that sense, I
4 didn't even have to disclose him in the
5 beginning. I am allowed -- I was only
6 required to disclose people in my
7 case-in-chief. This is a defense they
8 raised.
9 MR. OLIN: You don't get a rebuttal
10 case on the case-in-chief. You just get a
11 defense case. You don't have rebuttal. My
12 claim. Your defense. My rebuttal.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. The
14 governing rule is Rule 32A of the AAA
15 commercial rules, which provides that the
16 arbitrator may receive and consider the
17 evidence of witnesses by declaration or
18 affidavit but shall give it only such weight
19 as the arbitrator deems it entitled to,
20 after consideration of any objection made to
21 its admission.
22 So I am going to accept the affidavit
23 in the sense of making it a part of the
24 record here. Obviously, Judge Schackman is
25 not here and hasn't had a chance to consider
2364
1
2 your argument, and I will confer with him
3 before deciding what, if anything, to do
4 with this affidavit, and it may well be that
5 it provides no useful additional information
6 to us or it may be that it provides some,
7 and we may decide to
8 receive some, but not all of it, so we will
9 leave it there.
10 MR. BURSTEIN: Rather than split it
11 now, let me get the original coming in since
12 you really can't read the underlying
13 document.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: That is fine.
15 MR. BURSTEIN: I guess we will wait.
16 MR. OLIN: The videographer will be
17 here about 10, 10:30.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: I will be here.
19 (Recess taken).
20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now going on
21 the record. The time is 10:43 a.m. on April
22 6, 2005. This is the videotaped testimony
23 of Don King, volume one in the matter of
24 Bernard Hopkins, Jr. Versus Don King, et al.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: We are ready to resume
2365
1
2 with the commencement of cross-examination
3 of Mr. King.
4 MR. OLIN: Thank you, Mr. Carter. Two
5 things, I want to be clear that my
6 examination of Mr. King is my
7 cross-examination of his testimony from
8 yesterday, my examination of him in our
9 defense of the counterclaim, and my
10 examination of him in rebuttal of Mr.
11 Burstein's defense of our claim, so there
12 are three purposes for which I am calling
13 him at this time, and I intend to cover all
14 three of those subject matters rather than
15 put him on, let him sit, put him back on,
16 let him sit and then put him back on again.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Very well.
18 D O N K I N G,
19 having been previously sworn, was examined
20 and continued to testify further as follows:
21 CROSS-EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. OLIN:
23 Q. Mr. King, I am quite certain that Mr.
24 Burstein has told you this, but I am going to ask
25 you again to please keep in mind that if you
2366
1 D. King-Cross
2 answer my questions and limit your responses to
3 the answers to my questions, it will make our day
4 a little shorter. Okay?
5 A. Thank you, Mr. Olin.
6 Q. I appreciate your attempt to do so.
7 A. Thank you.
8 Q. I want to talk to you first about the
9 subject of Mr. Hopkins' mandatories and your
10 contract. How many mandatories did Mr. Hopkins
11 fight while he was under your promotional
12 agreement?
13 A. Three, I believe.
14 Q. Correct. Daniels was a mandatory?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Hakkar was a mandatory?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And Joppy was a mandatory?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. All three of those bouts counted as
21 part of the six bouts that you were required to
22 put on under your promotional agreement, did they
23 not?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So you are not contending that you had
2367
1 D. King-Cross
2 to give him six bouts that were not mandatories,
3 are you?
4 A. No.
5 Q. In fact, even though the Daniels bout
6 was a mandatory and even though you agreed to pay
7 him $2.2 million plus the Bentley for
8 participating in that bout, there was a purse bid
9 for that bout?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And that purse bid was held for the
12 purpose of establishing not what you were going
13 to pay Mr. Hopkins, but what you were going to
14 pay Mr. Daniels?
15 A. The purse bid was held to establish
16 what the marketplace for the fight would be, and
17 that is what it did. The fight was $500,000.
18 Nobody bid on the fight. So it wasn't worth much
19 to anyone, and that establishes the price for the
20 fight.
21 Q. The reason that you went forward with
22 a purse bid was because you had no agreement with
23 Mr. Daniels, correct?
24 A. If you don't have an agreement with
25 either one, that is when a purse bid comes into
2368
1 D. King-Cross
2 play. When you don't have -- if you don't have
3 both agreements, you don't have an agreement.
4 Q. My question to you, though, is the
5 purse bid was held in early October of 2002, was
6 it not?
7 A. I don't recall.
8 Q. I'm sorry. It couldn't have been
9 October -- October 2001, right?
10 A. If that is what you say. I don't
11 know, because you didn't know, and you can get
12 the record.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look if you would at
14 Exhibit 14. Does that refresh your recollection
15 that you did a purse bid for the Daniels bout on
16 October 6, 2001?
17 MR. BURSTEIN: I have an objection to
18 this, because you should ask him -- the
19 document is itself inconsistent.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we established
21 in prior testimony that the proper date was
22 November 7.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: That's right.
24 MR. OLIN: Okay.
25 Q. November 7. That is okay. I don't
2369
1 D. King-Cross
2 care. It couldn't have been November 7.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: November 5.
4 MR. OLIN: There you go. Eventually we
5 will get it right.
6 MR. BURSTEIN: We will concede that it
7 took place on November 5.
8 MR. OLIN: It doesn't matter to me for
9 these purposes whether it was October or
10 November.
11 MR. BURSTEIN: Okay.
12 Q. Didn't you go forward with the purse
13 bid because Mr. Daniels was asking for $800,000
14 to participate in that fight?
15 A. We couldn't agree to terms, and so,
16 when you can't agree to terms, you go to purse
17 bid.
18 Q. Can you answer my question? Wasn't he
19 asking for $800,000?
20 A. He was asking for a million.
21 Q. A million dollars. Okay. You thought
22 that was unreasonable?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. So you went to the purse bid to
25 establish a price that you would have to pay Mr.
2370
1 D. King-Cross
2 Daniels?
3 A. I went to the purse bid to establish
4 the market price of the fight, the value of the
5 fight. He felt that the fight was worth a
6 million dollars to him. That means there would
7 be a $4 million purse bid, so we went to the
8 marketplace to see what the marketplace would
9 value the fight at, and the fight was valued at
10 $500,000, which I bid, because no one else bid.
11 Q. And you had to end up paying Mr.
12 Daniels $125,000?
13 A. That is what the purse bid says.
14 Q. Is that what you paid him?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Now you did not -- according to the
17 purse bid, if it is the market value, then would
18 it be your testimony that the value of Mr.
19 Hopkins at that purse bid was $375,000?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You ultimately entered into a contract
22 for the Daniels fight for the 2.2 million plus
23 the Bentley?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. We are going to get back to that.
thehype
2371
1 D. King-Cross
2 Would you agree with me that, under your
3 promotional agreement, Mr. Hopkins had the right
4 to negotiate purses?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you have the right to negotiate
7 purses?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. You do not fault Mr. Hopkins for
10 trying to negotiate better deals for himself in
11 negotiating with you his various purses, do you?
12 A. No.
13 Q. You would have expected any fighter in
14 your stable of fighters to want to get as much
15 money as he can convince you to pay him for his
16 fights, correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And you expected, based on the
19 promotional agreement that you had, that Mr.
20 Hopkins would in fact attempt to do so?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now, you said yesterday that you never
23 offered less than a million and a half dollars
24 for the Daniels bout, correct?
25 A. I never did. Yes.
2372
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. That is what you said unequivocably.
3 You never offered less than a million and a half
4 dollars for the Daniels bout to Mr. Hopkins?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And yet you are telling us today that
7 the value of Mr. Hopkins, according to the
8 marketplace, based on the purse bid, was only
9 $375,000?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Are you denying that you offered Mr.
12 -- today -- that you offered Mr. Hopkins less
13 than $500,000 as an opening offer for that bout?
14 A. I had a purse bid. I didn't have to
15 make an offer to that bout. The purse bid says
16 he should receive $375,000. I did not give him
17 the $375,000. That was established by the purse
18 bid, and that is what I could have had him to
19 fight for. Otherwise, he would give up his
20 title.
21 Q. Did you offer him less than $500,000
22 at any point to fight the Daniels bout?
23 A. I don't recall.
24 Q. Might you have offered him less?
25 A. I don't recall.
2373
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Is it possible, given the results of
3 the purse bid and your evaluation of the market
4 value of this fight, that you offered him less
5 than $500,000 and said something like this is all
6 the bout is worth?
7 A. I didn't have to say that. All the
8 bout was worth was 375, but I don't recall saying
9 that.
10 Q. Now you did say at your deposition
11 that you thought it was only worth 2 to $300,000
12 for Mr. Hopkins, didn't you?
13 A. Same range.
14 Q. You did say that?
15 A. I said 2 to 300 in the deposition.
16 Q. You are telling us that you would not
17 in the negotiations over this bout have used that
18 information in your sense of what the bout was
19 worth in negotiating with Mr. Hopkins for what he
20 should take?
21 A. I don't recall.
22 Q. So, is your testimony yesterday that
23 you never offered less than a million and a half
24 dollars a little too strong?
25 A. No. For opponents that I designate, I
2374
1 D. King-Cross
2 never offered Mr. Hopkins anything less than a
3 million and a half dollars.
4 Q. You didn't designate Mr. Daniels, did
5 you?
6 A. No, I did not designate Mr. Daniels,
7 and Mr. Daniels was an organizational appointee,
8 and I did not appoint this man or designate this
9 man as an opponent, so therefore I did not offer
10 him to Hopkins as a fight. It was forced upon
11 me.
12 Q. So my question is, since he was not an
13 opponent you picked, can you exclude the
14 possibility that you offered him less than a
15 million and a half dollars for this fight?
16 A. I don't recall ever offering him less
17 than whatever the million and a half dollars, and
18 it was a purse bid which established the price of
19 the fight and the market value, and I went on to
20 get him more money than what the market value
21 was.
22 MR. OLIN: I am going to hand to all
23 of you, these are -- the first two items are
24 transcripts of Mr. King's deposition, and
25 the third item is a rough of yesterday's
2375
1 D. King-Cross
2 transcript. It's the best we have got,
3 obviously. You will excuse that the
4 transcript of the deposition has all sorts
5 of writing in it that I have put or X's and
6 things like that.
7 Q. Mr. King, do you remember you were
8 under oath at your deposition?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. November 5, 2004, page 80. Do you
11 remember this question and answer?
12 A. Let me get it.
13 Q. Line 14.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: I don't think this is
15 inconsistent with his testimony.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: It may not be, but we
17 will see where he is going with it.
18 Q. This question, this answer: "Do you
19 know how much you offered for Mr. Hopkins when
20 you first began negotiating for the Daniels
21 fight?
22 "Answer: No."
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Yesterday, you said that you know it
25 wasn't less than a million and a half dollars?
2376
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. That is not
3 inconsistent.
4 A. I don't understand. I said no. I
5 don't recall offering him anything else.
6 Q. Okay.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Overruled for the
8 moment.
9 Q. It could have been less than a million
10 and a half dollars, because it wasn't an opponent
11 that you selected, couldn't it?
12 MR. BURSTEIN: This has been asked
13 seven times already. Each time he said I
14 don't recall.
15 A. I don't recall.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: That is true.
17 MR. OLIN: I am done with the issue.
18 Q. You will acknowledge that you offered
19 a million and a half and then a million 7 at some
20 point in the negotiations?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When you offered Mr. Hopkins a million
23 and a half or a million 7, did you try and
24 convince him that that was reasonable and that he
25 should accept it?
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1 D. King-Cross
2 A. I don't recall.
3 Q. Wouldn't it have been your practice
4 when you offered a fighter a million and a half
5 or a million 7 or whatever the first number was
6 after whatever it was when you were in that
7 range, Bernard, this is all I can get for you.
8 This is the best I can do. This is a fair price
9 for this fight. This is a mandatory. You know
10 what the purse bid price was. You should take
11 this.
12 I can just see the conversation, Mr.
13 King. Can't you?
14 A. You are very good.
15 Q. Wouldn't you have done that?
16 A. I don't think so.
17 Q. You wouldn't have done that?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Would you have told him, I'm offering
20 you a million and a half, but you should really
21 ask me for more?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Wouldn't you have wanted him to take
24 the million and a half as a capitalist? You
25 described yourself as a capitalist, right?
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1 D. King-Cross
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. Wouldn't you have wanted him to take
4 the million and a half?
5 A. It was up to him.
6 Q. I didn't ask you whether he would take
7 it. I asked you whether you would want him to
8 take it.
9 A. That would be purely up to him.
10 Q. Can you please answer my question?
11 A. I can't answer that question.
12 MR. OLIN: Mr. Carter, could you
13 please ask the witness to answer the
14 question that he would have wanted Mr.
15 Hopkins to take the million and a half.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. King, presumably it
17 would have been to your interest for him to
18 come to an agreement with you?
19 THE WITNESS: It would have been to my
20 interest to get to an agreement, but the
21 missing part of this is that I wouldn't have
22 paid him a million and a half, because it
23 wasn't a designated opponent for me, and I
24 was negotiating with HBO who didn't want to
25 do the fight, but they said they would pay,
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2 and whatever they would pay, that is what I
3 would do in order to protect the interests
4 of three belts that he had just won, so when
5 he would take more money or less money, it
6 was up to him to argue for it. I go back
7 and argue with HBO, because it was a purse
8 bid. He was only due $375,000.
9 Q. Now, Mr. King, let's be clear about
10 this. HBO doesn't pay your fighters, do they?
11 A. Yes, it does. They pay me.
12 Q. They pay you?
13 A. That is a good point. Remind me of
14 that when I get down to Mr. --
15 Q. HBO pays you?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And then you pay your fighters?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. So sometimes HBO pays you more than
20 you pay your fighters and sometimes they pay you
21 less than you pay your fighters? Right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. That is a question of how good you
24 negotiate with HBO and then how good you
25 negotiate with your fighter, right?
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1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. So can't you admit, Mr. King, the
4 obvious, that you would have wanted Mr. Hopkins
5 to take less than the $2.2 million plus a Bentley
6 that he ultimately contracted for?
7 A. No, I can't necessarily say that,
8 because I told Mr. Hopkins that I was with HBO
9 trying to get this money. They did not want the
10 mandatory. He was dead set on doing the
11 mandatory, and so I was working with them on the
12 premise that, if he did the mandatory, he would
13 fight Tito Trinidad or Roy Jones as his next
14 opponent.
15 Based on that conversation, HBO began
16 to deal with me in trying to put together the
17 fight for this Carl Daniels, and I would go back
18 to them and say what Bernard would not take and
19 trying to do it in the places of getting these
20 big matches. Then they would raise the price on
21 whatever they were going to give me.
22 Q. Mr. King, as you sit here today as the
23 capitalist, you are in this business to make
24 money, aren't you?
25 A. Yes.
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2 Q. Okay. That you wouldn't have been
3 happier and pleased if Mr. Hopkins had said, yes,
4 when you offered him the million and a half, and
5 then you had gone back to HBO and negotiated even
6 a better deal with HBO for you and thus made more
7 money for yourself? That wouldn't have made you
8 happier?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay. I will let it go at that. Do
11 you know what you earned on the Daniels-Hopkins
12 fight?
13 A. I don't recall. I don't know.
14 Q. I will show it to you if you want, but
15 --
16 MR. BURSTEIN: I will take your
17 representation.
18 Q. According to what your records say, on
19 the Hopkins-Daniels fight, Don King Productions
20 earned $1,205,677, right?
21 A. Yes, if you say that.
22 Q. Now the reality is, if you had paid
23 Mr. Hopkins 200 or $300,000 or $375,000, which is
24 what you say the fight was worth, instead of you
25 making $1,205,000, you would have made
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1 D. King-Cross
2 $3,205,000, right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You think that is okay?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection. He is
6 talking about an event that didn't even
7 happen. I mean not the event happening. He
8 is talking about whether it would have been
9 okay to pay Mr. Hopkins a lot less when he
10 made so much money, when in fact he didn't
11 pay Mr. Hopkins that amount.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm not sure what okay
13 means in this context either, so let's try
14 to --
15 Q. You think it is fair, Mr. King, that
16 you would make $3 million for your efforts and
17 that Mr. Daniels would make 125,000 and Mr.
18 Hopkins would make 250 or $350,000 on this fight?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: I object again. Whether
20 he thinks it is fair or not has nothing to
21 do with this case. This is a contract case.
22 The facts are what the facts are. Whether
23 or not he thinks it would have been fair if
24 something that didn't happen happened is
25 completely irrelevant.
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2 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
3 Q. Do you believe that the promoters
4 should make more money than the talent?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: Again, objection. All
6 of this is completely irrelevant.
7 MR. OLIN: This came in with Mr.
8 DiBella.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: This one I will allow.
10 A. What is your question?
11 Q. Do you think that you as the promoter
12 should make more money than the guys whose sweat
13 and blood are literally on the line in the ring?
14 A. I feel that the best deal, the fair
15 deal that you make going into the fight is what
16 should prevail. That is why we have contracts
17 and the sanctity of a contract is what we all
18 rely upon, so, if you make a fair deal going in,
19 that is what you deal with.
20 That is why as you said prior that, if
21 you were negotiating and you can ask for more
22 money in a negotiation and then, when you
23 consummate the deal, then you have your deal for
24 whatever it is that you have agreed to. That is
25 fair and square. I look for a fair deal.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. All right. So the answer is, if you
3 happen to make 3 million and the fighters make
4 less than a half million, that is okay if that is
5 the deal you negotiate?
6 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection to okay
7 again.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
9 Q. If the deal you negotiate, Mr. King,
10 is that you end up making $3 million and the
11 talent, the boxers make a total of $500,000, that
12 that is, as long as it is in accordance with the
13 contract, that is the way it has to be?
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection. I hate to
15 be so argumentative, but this is completely
16 irrelevant. There are facts in this case.
17 MR. OLIN: It is not irrelevant.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: It is about as relevant
19 to the questions that I was objected to when
20 I started talking about what is your
21 understanding of the contract where you
22 fight five fights, that kind of thing, where
23 I guess I was appropriately limited.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: I think that is right
25 broadly. He is entitled to inquire into the
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2 area of relations between promoter and
3 fighters as a result of that having been
4 developed through Mr. DiBella, among other
5 things, but I think he's already answered
6 your question here.
7 He answered about his understanding as
8 to what the relationship is here, and I
9 inferred from that at least that he accepts
10 a certain amount of risk, and that is part
11 of the situation here, and I have an
12 understanding about that now.
13 Q. We are going to go back to the Daniels
14 bout later a little bit. You know what? Let's do
15 it now. Do you know what HBO initially offered
16 you for the Daniels bout?
17 A. I don't recall.
18 Q. I think you testified yesterday that
19 they ultimately paid you $3-1/2 million, right?
20 A. Whatever the contract is.
21 Q. Isn't that what you said yesterday?
22 They paid you 3-1/2 million for the Daniels bout?
23 A. I don't think so.
24 Q. You didn't hear Mr. Wirt testify about
25 that yesterday?
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1 D. King-Cross
2 A. I think that the 3-1/2 million was
3 when Hassam Rahman and the other HBO fee. I
4 don't know. They could have paid me. I don't
5 know. If you get the contract, it will speak for
6 itself.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Do you want just a
8 stipulation on it?
9 MR. OLIN: Yes. That would be great.
10 MR. BURSTEIN: It was $3-1/2 million.
11 Q. You know, Mr. King, that the first
12 offer that HBO made for the bout was 2 million,
13 right?
14 A. I don't recall.
15 Q. Let me show you where that is. Take a
16 look if you would at Exhibit 20 and attached to
17 that letter is a term sheet from HBO of December
18 18, 2001. After the bout agreement on the second
19 page, you see the $2 million there for the 2002
20 bout?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. For the February 2?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Ultimately, you convinced HBO to
25 almost double their offer to $3-1/2 million for
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2 that bout, and you got them to pay you that money
3 without ever having to sign for the bigger bouts
4 that were supposed to come later?
5 A. I got them to sign -- to put on the
6 bout because the time ran out and they were under
7 the auspices that Bernard would sign and have the
8 multi-fight agreement, and much to their dismay
9 and mine too, Bernard in his usual ungrateful way
10 didn't do it.
11 Q. We're going to go back to what
12 happened at HBO, but of course you are the one
13 who has the authority to sign a deal with HBO,
14 weren't you?
15 A. No, not without Bernard. That's one
16 thing in this whole thing, I have always kept him
17 appraised. I would never sign nothing that
18 Bernard didn't agree to.
19 Q. My point for here is that HBO started
20 at 2 million, and you got them up to 3-1/2
21 million before the deal was over, didn't you?
22 A. No, they started at 3-1/2 million, and
23 they were going to give a million and a half
24 signing bonus, 2 million for the fight, and then
25 what we did is made the signing bonus a part of
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1 D. King-Cross
2 the agreement.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: In fact, if you look at
4 the document, it says that.
5 Q. Bottom line is, however you structured
6 it, they gave you $3-1/2 million, and the only
7 thing that you committed to them in writing was
8 the Daniels bout?
9 A. They believed in me, and I believed in
10 Arnold and Bernard, and it didn't turn out to be
11 substantiated.
12 Q. My point here is that everybody is
13 negotiating with everybody, aren't they? You are
14 negotiating with HBO trying to get them to pay
15 more money, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. It is good for you, it is good for
18 your fighter if you get them to pay more money?
19 A. According to what the circumstances in
20 the deal is.
21 Q. Of course. You are trying to
22 negotiate with Mr. Hopkins. As a capitalist, you
23 would like him to take less money?
24 A. Not necessarily so. I wanted to see
25 Bernard make some money.
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2 Q. Some money?
3 A. Yes, I want to see him make some
4 money.
5 Q. You knew that, if whoever won the
6 unification tournament that you put on, the
7 Joppy-Trinidad, Hopkins-Holmes unification
8 tournament, that whoever came out of that was
9 going to have all three belts?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And that with all three belts was
12 going to come mandatory obligations?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And those mandatory obligations were
15 going to be for three different organizations?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you ever propose in Mr. Hopkins'
18 promotional agreement a provision that said the
19 six bouts I am going to give you don't include
20 those mandatory obligations?
21 A. No.
22 Q. I want to go back also to something
23 you said yesterday.
24 Yesterday, you said that after Mr.
25 Hopkins fought Mr. Holmes and Mr. Trinidad that
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2 Mr. Trinidad wanted an immediate rematch and
3 Bernard wanted to fight his mandatory before Tito
4 and you couldn't talk him out of it. Isn't that
5 what you said yesterday?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. In fact, that is not what happened at
8 all, is it? That isn't even close to the truth,
9 is it, Mr. King?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. It is?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 7. As a
14 condition to getting permission from the IBF to
15 do this tournament at all, you had to agree that
16 the winner of the tournament would fight an IBF
17 mandatory immediately following, didn't you?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you -- your office got this
20 letter, Exhibit 7, from the IBF setting forth
21 that obligation, correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And, pursuant to that, you prepared
24 and Mr. Hopkins signed Exhibit 9 on August 13,
25 2001 agreeing to do exactly that, didn't he?
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1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Now you have said countless times that
4 contracts have to mean something. You believe in
5 the sanctity of contracts, don't you?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You made a contract with the IBF,
8 didn't you?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Mr. Hopkins made a deal with the IBF,
11 didn't he?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. So you are saying that it was not --
14 it was Mr. Hopkins' idea to fight the mandatory
15 anyway or that he was obligated to fight the
16 mandatory?
17 A. What do you want me to say now?
18 Q. I want you to say which it was.
19 Yesterday, you said he only fought the mandatory
20 because he wanted to fight the mandatory.
21 I want to know whether or not you and
22 he and the IBF had agreed that he would fight the
23 mandatory regardless of what you wanted.
24 A. We agreed that he would fight the
25 mandatory, but we didn't agree as to when he
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2 would fight the mandatory. It was supposed to be
3 immediately after he wins the tournament, but you
4 always have a chance to get an exception, and Mr.
5 Trinidad wanted to fight. When he met with me in
6 January, he wanted to go straight into big
7 fights, but we did agree with the IBF to fight
8 the mandatory.
9 Q. So what you are saying is you would
10 have wanted to go back to the IBF despite the
11 sanctity of contracts and say no, wait a minute,
12 I know we agreed to do this, but let's not do it.
13 Isn't that what you are saying now?
14 A. Well, not in a derogatory way that you
15 are saying it, but I am saying that, because to
16 the extent if there is going to be a mandatory,
17 and we don't say we are not going to honor the
18 contract or the sanctity of the contract. What
19 we are saying is we may want to postpone it just
20 as what Bernard is doing right now.
21 Q. I am going to change subjects with
22 you, Mr. King. Look at Exhibit 2, which is the
23 promotional agreement. I am going to spend very
24 little time on this, I promise you, but it is
25 something I have to do.
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2 Take a look at paragraph 1 of Exhibit
3 2. This document, this promotional agreement, it
4 was actually prepared in your offices?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Paragraph 1 says that fighter grants
7 promoter the sole and exclusive right to secure
8 and arrange all professional boxing bouts and
9 then defines it as a bout requiring fighter's
10 services as a professional boxer, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. All, right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All includes mandatories if they are
15 due?
16 MR. BURSTEIN: You know, this is not
17 fair, Michael, because at least read him the
18 whole paragraph.
19 MR. OLIN: He can read the whole
20 paragraph. I think he has already said
21 mandatories are included. I just want to
22 make sure that that is because the contract
23 says it.
24 A. It says that I am required for the
25 fighter's services as a professional boxer to
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2 secure and arrange and promote all such bouts all
3 upon and subject to the terms and conditions
4 hereafter set forth.
5 Q. Yes, but all bouts.
6 A. So you have to go to the terms that
7 I'm supposed to appoint. I'm supposed to
8 designate the opponent. On the terms and
9 conditions set forth in this agreement, I am
10 supposed to designate the opponent, and then I
11 have to pay the minimum or more.
12 The minimum is just the minimum. He
13 can negotiate for more if the fight is worth
14 more, but I have to be the designator of who the
15 opponent is going to be.
16 Q. Are the mandatories included or not
17 included in this contract?
18 A. They are not included in the contract
19 per se as a designated opponent by me. What a
20 purse bid and a mandatory does is it extricates
21 the terms and conditions of my contract. It is
22 counted as a fight, but it takes out the terms
23 and conditions of my contract, and we are
24 fighting by the terms and conditions of the purse
25 bid of the mandatory.
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2 Q. Basically what that means is that Mr.
3 Hopkins could fight six mandatories for $300,000
4 during the term of this contract and you would
5 never have had to pay him a million and a half
6 bucks. Is that your reading of it?
7 A. No. My reading of it is that the
8 mandatories are going to be a part of the
9 equation in boxing, but I thought, when a fighter
10 won a title, he was seeking riches and he wanted
11 to get as much money as he can get, not by trying
12 to extort money by a mandatory with nondescript
13 opponents, but by fighting the biggest and best
14 fights, where he can make money and I could make
15 money.
16 This is what I thought his hopes and
17 aspirations and ambitions was, to fight big
18 events, to fight the best out there, to make the
19 most money he can make in the short window that
20 he has as a prizefighter.
21 Q. Look at paragraph 4G. Do you see
22 paragraph 4G? That is the minimum purse
23 obligation, is it not?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Go back to paragraph 1 for a second.
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2 You can see it defines a bout as all professional
3 boxing bouts in paragraph 1?
4 MR. BURSTEIN: I have an objection.
5 Isn't this just -- all he is asking the
6 witness to do is to read what is in the
7 contract, which is essentially just a legal
8 question as to what the contract requires.
9 MR. OLIN: I am asking him his
10 understanding.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: I think you are right,
12 Mr. Burstein, that walking us through the
13 contract by and large is not adding very
14 much here, but I will give you some leeway
15 to develop his understanding, if it turns
16 out it is going to be useful.
17 MR. OLIN: I think we are going to see
18 very shortly.
19 Q. You see paragraph 1? It defines bout
20 with a capital B as all professional boxing bouts
21 requiring fighter's services. Right?
22 MR. BURSTEIN: I think you still have
23 to read the whole first paragraph.
24 Q. Then, if you go to paragraph 4G, it
25 says, "Fighter's purse for all bouts," with a
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2 capital B, "hereunder shall be a million dollars.
3 However, if he beats Trinidad for all other bouts
4 shall be negotiated but not less than 1,500,000."
5 Do you see that?
6 A. Yes, but this is also subject to my
7 designation of an opponent. Any opponent that I
8 designate, I live with this contract entirely. I
9 cannot live -- you cannot put extraneous people
10 that is dictating who I should fight and what I
11 should pay them based upon someone else.
12 I am in it, as you say, a capitalist.
13 I am in it to make money. I know what opponents
14 I can make money with, and I know which opponents
15 that I'm not going to make money with, so I
16 designate an opponent, but any opponent I ever
17 designated to Mr. Hopkins was never under the
18 minimum of the paragraph, according to this
19 contract.
20 Q. Now, Mr. Hopkins' purses that he was
21 to be paid were contingent upon him retaining all
22 three belts in some respects, weren't they?
23 A. In some respects. You said it right.
24 In some respects, it was contingent upon that
25 because he was the champion, but, if he fought a
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2 mandatory for an IBF, it would be according to
3 what the IBF would say. You would pay the other
4 sanctioning bodies in order to keep their titles
5 when any time my man goes to the fight.
6 If he loses the IBF mandatory, unless
7 all three titles are on the line, he loses the
8 IBF, and the other titles become blank, but it is
9 according to the titles, and you said it
10 correctly.
11 Q. In fact, Exhibits 23 and 24, for
12 example, the 2003, I am going to try and move
13 quickly here, Mr. King, the 2003 and 2004 bout
14 agreements that were signed on December 20, 2001
15 both in paragraph 3 differentiate Mr. Hopkins'
16 purses between how much he will get if he remains
17 the unified champion and how much he will get if
18 he is not the unified champion?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: I again object because
20 the contract says what it says. The 2003 and
21 2004 contracts have different language,
22 Michael.
23 MR. OLIN: For this purpose --
24 MR. BURSTEIN: No, they have different
25 language in paragraph 3.
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2 MR. OLIN: I'm not going to argue with
3 you.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained. Let's not
5 argue about it.
6 Q. Do those two agreements differentiate
7 in the purse amount depending on whether he is
8 the champion or not?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained, because we
11 have had these provisions read to us
12 already.
13 MR. OLIN: That is okay. I will move
14 on to something else.
15 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 22, which is
16 the amendment to the promotional agreement.
17 Paragraph B, Mr. Hopkins loses his belts, his
18 minimum purse goes down to $500,000, right?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection. That is not
20 what it says. If you want to read him --
21 you can't say that. That is just not what
22 it says.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: I am reading it, and I
24 see what it says, but you are free to
25 develop this.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. I just want to make the point that the
3 purse changes depending on whether he is a
4 champion or not. Would you acknowledge that, Mr.
5 King, that the purses that Mr. Hopkins would earn
6 would be less if he lost belts?
7 MR. BURSTEIN: I again object, because
8 the contract speaks for itself on this, and
9 that is not what it says. It doesn't say
10 belts.
11 MR. OLIN: Championships.
12 MR. BURSTEIN: It says a champion.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: It says, if he ceases
14 for any reason to be a world champion, there
15 is a certain minimum.
16 MR. OLIN: Correct.
17 MR. BURSTEIN: When you say belts, it
18 is not fair, because he would still be a
19 world champion if he lost another belt. One
20 belt, and he'd still have two others, so it
21 is an unfair question.
22 Q. Are you able to answer the question?
23 A. What is the question?
24 Q. Whether in general whether it is
25 Exhibit 23 or Exhibit 24 or Exhibit 22 or any of
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2 the exhibits that the purse that Mr. Hopkins
3 would get would be less if he lost a belt, two
4 belts, three belts or all his belts?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, you have already testified that
7 you didn't expect him to give up any of his
8 belts, right?
9 A. No.
10 Q. You did not say that?
11 A. No, I am saying you are asking me.
12 Q. I am correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You said yesterday in quite clear
15 language that Don King Productions could get
16 deferrals and that it was not necessary to give
17 up any belts, correct?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. And that you can always work the
20 mandatory out?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And, in fact, you could even get
23 step-aside agreements after a purse bid has
24 occurred?
25 A. No, I did not say that.
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2 Q. Could you?
3 A. No. You can't get a step-aside
4 agreement after the purse bid unless, I don't
5 know how you could do that.
6 Q. You go to the other fighter and you
7 say, how about if you give me another four months
8 and I will give you money?
9 A. I don't know about that.
10 Q. Have you ever done that before?
11 A. No, I never had to do that, I don't
12 think.
13 Q. You would agree that having the belts
14 made Mr. Hopkins more marketable?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. That the purpose of the tournament was
17 for him to get the belts?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And that you understand a fighter not
20 wanting to give up the belts?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. I want you to take a look at a
23 document that we have not spent any time on in
24 this, but I would like to call your attention to
25 it. Please look at Exhibit 4.
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2 Do you recognize Exhibit 4?
3 A. Let me read it.
4 Q. My only question is do you recognize
5 this?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. This is an amendment to the Keith
8 Holmes bout agreement, is it not?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And, if you look at the last page, it
11 has got your signature on it? Last page has your
12 signature? Is that your signature?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. This is a document that was drafted by
15 your lawyers?
16 A. And Arnold Joseph.
17 Q. Okay. Agreed to by the parties?
18 A. Um-hum.
19 Q. Take a look if you would on the second
20 page of the agreement at the top of the page at
21 the last sentence of paragraph A. Let me read it
22 to you. Are you with me?
23 "Fighter agrees that he will
24 exclusively participate in the undisputed
25 middleweight championship of the World Fight
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2 series including the rematch and/or the
3 undisputed championship rematch, if either
4 occurs, and agrees to honor on and assume all
5 mandatory obligations imposed by the IBF, WBA and
6 WBC middleweight titles if he becomes the
7 undisputed middleweight champion of the world."
8 That is a contract, isn't it?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And it is a requirement that Don King
11 imposed on Bernard Hopkins that he live up to all
12 of the requirements of these organizations,
13 wasn't it?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. So it would have been inappropriate
16 for you to even ask him to give up a title,
17 wouldn't it?
18 A. I don't know what you are talking
19 about because what I am saying here we will honor
20 all the agreements of the organizations, but it
21 is the method by which we honor them. That is all
22 I am saying.
23 I was usurped by Arnold Joseph of my
24 authority to designate opponents and to negotiate
25 the best monetary deal for Bernard and myself,
2405
1 D. King-Cross
2 and, with all due respect to the mandatories, we
3 will follow them, we will make certain that the
4 organization is satisfied with our performances,
5 and I have no way, no inclination or desire not
6 to do that.
7 Q. So let me make sure we are clear.
8 Despite this language that requires Mr. Hopkins
9 and you to honor all of the mandatory
10 obligations, despite the language in the various
11 agreements that affects his purses, if he loses a
12 belt or two belts or four belts, despite the
13 language of the promotional agreement, which says
14 that all bouts are included and all bouts are
15 subject to the minimum, you never once asked your
16 lawyers or proposed -- excuse the lawyers -- you
17 never proposed that you put in a sentence that
18 says mandatories aren't included in the
19 promotional agreement, did you?
20 A. No, but Mr. Arnold Joseph put in a
21 caveat that says, with or without the belts, the
22 purses remain the same during this period, so I
23 understand what you are saying, and I never
24 wanted to ever hurt an organization.
25 So therefore you have ways and means
2406
1 D. King-Cross
2 of negotiating with organizations to effectuate
3 the biggest bout and the most money for the
4 fighter.
5 My problem is that that right was
6 taken away from me and interfered with by Mr.
7 Joseph, who didn't give me the opportunity to
8 designate opponents or to present an argument for
9 a bigger, better fight where we all can make
10 money, but kept me in a position where you have
11 to always fight mandatories and that he called
12 upon before their time was even due.
13 Q. That is your answer?
14 A. That is my answer.
15 Q. I want to go back to your insistence
16 that Mr. Hopkins in the months following his
17 defeat of Felix Trinidad insisted on complying
18 with his and your contracts to fight Carl
19 Daniels.
20 Do you remember we just talked about
21 that a few minutes ago? You said that Mr.
22 Trinidad wanted immediately to go to a rematch?
23 A. Mr. Trinidad wanted to fight big
24 fights. When he met with me in January of 2002
25 or whatever the year was, he wanted to fight big
2407
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2 fights. Oscar De La Hoya or Bernard Hopkins.
3 Q. This is in January of 2002?
4 A. This is in January when he met with
5 me. He wanted to fight big fights. He said Tito
6 decided he wanted to fight big fights.
7 Now he had in there, I told him that
8 Bernard had a mandatory, so he said then he would
9 fight Oscar De La Hoya first and then fight
10 Bernard in the fall. So that was his intention
11 and that was his plan.
12 However, they were all aware that we
13 had a mandatory and there was no need for me to
14 try to change that mandatory, if I didn't have
15 Bernard on board to fight Tito Trinidad.
16 Q. In fact, if you look at Exhibit 51.
17 Look at page 2, the paragraph at the top of the
18 page. This is the letter from Mr. Trinidad's
19 lawyer, correct?
20 MR. BURSTEIN: I object only in the
21 sense that it is not remotely inconsistent
22 with what Mr. King said.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Overruled. It may or
24 may not be, but he can answer the question.
25 A. Yes.
thehype
2408
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. It says here that the structured plan
3 was to do the fight against Cherifi in May 2002
4 and then either De La Hoya or Bernard Hopkins,
5 doesn't it?
6 A. The plan that I was involved with is
7 that Mr. Felix Trinidad wanted to fight Oscar De
8 La Hoya or Bernard Hopkins.
9 I imposed upon him the fact that
10 Bernard had to do the mandatory with Carl
11 Daniels, so therefore I suggested that he should
12 do an interim fight too. His plan was not to
13 fight any of them, just to fight directly into
14 Bernard Hopkins or Oscar De La Hoya.
15 Then, in turn, Oscar De La Hoya said
16 he would fight Felix, and then Oscar decided to
17 fight Vargas. When Oscar decided to fight
18 Vargas, Oscar was then put aside. It was going
19 to be he would fight an interim fight with
20 Cherifi, who was the former champion, while
21 Bernard would fight Daniels, and then the two
22 would fight each other.
23 That is how the plan changed, and then
24 Bernard would not do that. After he fought
25 Daniels, before he could get the sweat wiped off
2409
1 D. King-Cross
2 his arm or a bruise was healing, Mr. Joseph sent
3 a letter for another mandatory, which would have
4 prevented him from fighting directly to Trinidad.
5 Q. I didn't ask you about that.
6 A. I'm giving you the scenario. You
7 asked me about this plan, and I am giving you
8 what the plan is.
9 Q. No. The plan was always to fight
10 Cherifi, wasn't it?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Well, you said that Mr. Trinidad
13 didn't even come to you until January, right?
14 A. Mr. Trinidad, we talk on the phone.
15 He came to visit me, and the thing that I suggest
16 with Cherifi, I put Cherifi as a match, an
17 interim match, while Mr. Hopkins was fighting
18 Carl Daniels, that he should fight a fight rather
19 than to wait around for the big fight.
20 Q. He came to you, you just said ten
21 minutes ago --
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. -- that he came to you in January?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. By January, the Daniels bout was
2410
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2 already signed, sealed and delivered?
3 A. We had talked about that, yes, but you
4 are talking about a signed, sealed and delivered.
5 I am trying to give you a chronology as to how it
6 came about.
7 When he was going to fight Mr.
8 Daniels, that was a fait accompli. So to Mr.
9 Trinidad, when he came with his plan, I said you
10 should fight a fight to stay sharp like Mr.
11 Hopkins is doing, not knowing as soon as Hopkins
12 beat Daniels that I was going to be usurped of my
13 right to designate an opponent.
14 Q. My question is a simple one. Yesterday
15 in this hearing room you blamed Mr. Hopkins for
16 insisting that they go forward with the mandatory
17 against Carl Daniels even though Felix Trinidad
18 wanted an immediate rematch. Are you still
19 blaming him for that today?
20 A. I'm not blaming him for that because
21 we knew we had a mandatory fight. There is no
22 blame there. It is just one of those things. It
23 is the option of Mr. Hopkins not to want to go do
24 that mandatory at that particular time. I
25 couldn't change that.
2411
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So, when you said yesterday Mr.
3 Hopkins wanted to fight the mandatory before
4 Tito, you didn't mean that in any negative way.
5 Is that what you are saying today?
6 A. I didn't mean anything in a negative
7 way. The point is that Mr. Hopkins opted to
8 fight the mandatory, and, if Mr. Hopkins and I
9 collectively had went to the IBF with him on
10 board even though we know we have a mandatory and
11 assure them that we would fight that mandatory
12 and that there was a lot of money involved as Mr.
13 Hopkins testified to, that it would be better for
14 boxing and more prestige for the organization, we
15 may or we may not have got the exception.
16 Q. Now you were here in this courtroom
17 during Dana Jamison's testimony, were you not?
18 A. I was in and out.
19 Q. You remember that right after the
20 fight there was a meeting with Bernard, and Dana
21 said that Bernard said bring Tito on. Do you
22 remember that? Bring him on. He was ready. He
23 was ready to do Tito any time right after this
24 fight, wasn't he?
25 A. I don't know.
2412
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You don't know?
3 A. I don't know.
4 Q. I am changing gears now.
5 MR. BURSTEIN: Could I have two
6 minutes?
7 THE CHAIRMAN: Sure.
8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time now is
9 11:41. Off the record.
10 (Recess taken).
11 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
12 11:49. On the record.
13 BY MR. OLIN:
14 Q. Mr. King, I want to talk to you now
15 for a while about the Betare/Hakkar mandatory
16 bout. Now you began negotiations with Mr.
17 Hopkins and Mr. Joseph about that bout in about
18 March -- sometime between March 12 -- between
19 March 12 and July of 2002, isn't that correct?
20 A. You mean we talked about it?
21 Q. Yes, began the negotiations to get
22 that bout going.
23 A. I could have talked about that bout,
24 because it was another upcoming mandatory, but I
25 was talking about Tito Trinidad rematch, honor
2413
1 D. King-Cross
2 the contract that he had signed to fight the
3 rematch. I knew the mandatory was coming, and at
4 that particular time I am certain, had he agreed
5 to fight the mandatory, we could have pushed that
6 fight off as he did himself.
7 Q. I'm not talking about Trinidad, but I
8 promise you, we will get a chance to talk about
9 Mr. Trinidad.
10 A. Thank you very much.
11 Q. I want to talk about Mr. Betare and
12 Mr. Hakkar and just the negotiations for that
13 particular bout. Isn't it fair to say that the
14 discussions about that bout were continuous from
15 about March 12, 2002, until the time you reached
16 an agreement for a million 1 in July?
17 A. I don't recall.
18 Q. Take a look at your deposition if you
19 would at page 78. Do you have it starting at
20 line 14?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Read from line 14 to the end of the
23 page.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Does that refresh your recollection
2414
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2 that the discussions were continuous from March
3 12 until the time you reached an agreement for a
4 million 1?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. You know -- we know because we have a
7 contract -- that in July, July 29, there was a
8 contract signed by Mr. Hopkins to fight, I think
9 at that time it was already Mr. Hakkar for a
10 million 1, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. I will show you the contract if you
13 want to see it.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, it is also true that, before you
16 came to that million 1 number, that you may even
17 have offered less than that before reaching that?
18 A. Could have.
19 Q. Do you have a recollection
20 specifically?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It wouldn't surprise you, though,
23 would it?
24 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Overruled.
2415
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. It wouldn't surprise you to know that
3 he, Mr. Hopkins, had asked for more than the
4 million 1 and you offered less and it negotiated
5 to a million 1?
6 A. I don't know whether it would surprise
7 me or not.
8 Q. Exhibit 65, just so we get our dates
9 straight, is Mr. Hopkins' signed bout agreement
10 for a million 1, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And that was sent to you, actually to
13 Dana, it looks like, on July 29, 2002, if you
14 look at the fax cover page?
15 A. That is what it says.
16 Q. You never signed this agreement, is
17 that correct?
18 A. No.
19 Q. You also at that same time had already
20 had an agreement for Mr. Hakkar, which is your
21 Exhibit EX, which instead of pulling out the
22 books, I have got extra copies of EX. Correct?
23 This is the contract from AB Stars to provide Mr.
24 Hakkar for this bout signed by Mr. Acaries. Is
25 that correct?
2416
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. This has a date on it of July 26 if
4 you look at the fax sheet? The cover legend on
5 the top and the date in the middle of the page.
6 It was sent to you on July 26.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So on July 26 was the first time you
9 had a contract for Mr. Hakkar, and July 29 was
10 the first time you had a contract for Mr.
11 Hopkins, is that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Can you take a look at Exhibit 56. Ten
14 days before you had Mr. Hakkar's signed contract
15 and 13 days before you had Mr. Hopkins' signed
16 contract your office told the WBC that you had an
17 agreement, didn't it?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. In fact, the last sentence of that
20 first paragraph says that agreement has been
21 finalized. Doesn't it?
22 A. It is talking about Betare, not
23 Hakkar.
24 Q. Has been finalized?
25 A. Yes. That was the deal that we had
2417
1 D. King-Cross
2 done. Hakkar came in as an advent out of
3 nowhere.
4 Q. We are going to get to that in a
5 minute. What contract did you have for Mr.
6 Betare on July 16?
7 A. Betare had said he would fight and he
8 came in and he wouldn't fight for the French.
9 Q. Did you have a finalized agreement
10 with Mr. Betare on July 16?
11 A. Not that I know of. I think he had
12 flew the coop.
13 Q. So you had no contract with Mr. Betare
14 even though you told the WBC you did and you had
15 no contract with Mr. Hopkins even though you told
16 the WBC you did?
17 A. No, that is not true. I told the WBC
18 that me and Acaries had reached an accord. We had
19 reached an agreement. That is not the fighter.
20 The fighter becomes incidental in these types of
21 situations that you reach with the promoter, and
22 he got the next guy who came out Hakkar, who was
23 supposed to be with -- the number one contender
24 was Betare.
25 Q. Where is your finalized agreement with
2418
1 D. King-Cross
2 Mr. Acaries that you say you have?
3 A. I didn't say I had one.
4 Q. You just said you reached an accord
5 with Mr. Acaries.
6 A. That was conversation between him and
7 I.
8 Q. So what you did is you had a phone
9 conversation with Mr. Acaries in which you said,
10 okay, I am going to give you Hopkins and you are
11 going to give me Betare?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And then you went and told the WBC you
14 had a final deal?
15 A. No, we said we have got a deal. This
16 is final. That is what the WBC wrote, but me and
17 Acaries had worked out that he would fight for me
18 in the mandatory fight.
19 Q. This is the same Mr. Acaries who you
20 couldn't trust unless you had something in
21 writing from him?
22 A. Mr. Acaries, you can't trust him with
23 something in writing.
24 Q. So you are telling the WB -- you're
25 telling the WBC that you have got an oral
2419
1 D. King-Cross
2 arrangement with Mr. Acaries who you can't even
3 trust when he has even got a written agreement,
4 right?
5 A. There are different extenuating
6 circumstances. He is a friend and he would deal
7 with you if you deal with him, but, if he thinks
8 there is any trepidation or anything that is
9 going to be -- he is going to try to be one step
10 ahead.
11 Q. Look at Exhibit 140.
12 MR. BURSTEIN: I think ours only goes
13 up to 139.
14 MR. ROSENTHAL: That was one that was
15 added in the first part of the trial.
16 Q. Now, on July 19, after you have told
17 him you have got a deal sometime around July 16,
18 you are now writing saying you don't have a deal
19 because a verbal agreement is not sufficient.
20 A. It is only valid -- it only validates
21 what I was saying.
22 Q. So --
23 MR. BURSTEIN: Finish the question.
24 MR. OLIN: Yes.
25 A. This is a letter agreement where me
2420
1 D. King-Cross
2 and Mr. Acaries had agreed verbally to do the
3 fight for a purse of $400,000.
4 Now, we find that it is difficult for
5 him to answer the agreement that was sent to him,
6 and so with the procrastination of Dana Jamison,
7 who is the senior vice president of boxing
8 operations, sent a letter to Mr. Sulaiman to
9 intervene to try to get Mr. Acaries to send the
10 written -- to sign the written proposal --
11 agreement that had been sent to him, not knowing
12 at the time that Betare was trying to jump ship.
13 That is why he didn't send it.
14 It wasn't that Mr. Acaries wouldn't
15 have sent it, because he is an honorable man, but
16 the idea is he wasn't going to sign this unless
17 he had Mr. Betare in hand and had his agreement
18 the same as I wouldn't sign anything with Bernard
19 if I don't have him in hand and have the
20 agreement in my hand.
21 So that is what that is. So he was
22 protecting himself by not signing the agreement
23 for services that he could not deliver.
24 Q. So, on July 19, you are saying that it
25 is still Mr. Betare that you are worried about,
2421
1 D. King-Cross
2 right?
3 A. Yes. That is what it says in the
4 letter.
5 Q. Yesterday, you said that, when that
6 changed from Mr. Betare to Mr. Hakkar, it threw
7 you off three or four months. Didn't you say
8 that yesterday?
9 A. I said in the process it went three or
10 four months from the time that the fight would
11 have been taking place. It did take some more
12 time. I don't know whether it is three or four
13 months or not, but it certainly did change the
14 landscape, because we were preparing to fight the
15 number one contender, Betare, and then we just
16 got a substitute which made it even worse of
17 being -- no one knew Betare, but at least he was
18 the number one contender, but Hakkar, he was a
19 political appointment.
20 That is why it is so difficult as a
21 promoter to try to put a fighter of the magnitude
22 and stature and esteem of Bernard Hopkins in with
23 these nondescript guys and then pay him
24 exorbitant amounts of money.
25 Q. Look at page 83 of the rough trial
2422
1 D. King-Cross
2 testimony from yesterday. The pages are at the
3 bottom. Just for the record and for Mr. Carter
4 and Mr. Burstein, apparently when you print
5 these, this pagination has absolutely nothing to
6 do with the ultimate pagination that will appear,
7 so --
8 MR. BURSTEIN: I understand that.
9 MR. OLIN: So you will have to keep
10 this to know what we are talking about in
11 the record.
12 MR. BURSTEIN: Sure.
13 Q. Right in the middle of the page, it
14 says the French fighter decided he wasn't going
15 to fight something, so we just walked away, and
16 now they come in and appoint a new guy named
17 Hakkar, and he came like two or three months
18 after Betare.
19 Isn't that what you said?
20 A. That is what I said, but, in the
21 spirit of veracity, it is the way the fight was
22 just going to take -- it took time. You just
23 couldn't bring a new guy in and then jam him down
24 your throat, so they had to tell me that this new
25 appointment was there, so we went right to work
2423
1 D. King-Cross
2 with Mr. Acaries to try to negotiate a purse for
3 the new appointment.
4 Q. On July 19 you are talking about Mr.
5 Betare, right?
6 A. July 19?
7 Q. Yes. That is the date of Exhibit 140,
8 your letter to Mr. Sulaiman, complaining about
9 Mr. Betare and Mr. Acaries, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Let me get you there. But by August
12 26, a week later --
13 MR. BURSTEIN: July 26.
14 Q. July 26, a week later, in Exhibit EX,
15 you have a contract in your hands for Mr. Hakkar,
16 not Mr. Betare, to fight Bernard Hopkins on
17 August 17, don't you?
18 A. If you go back --
19 Q. Can you answer my question?
20 THE CHAIRMAN: I think that is a
21 simple question to answer.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Where is the two or three months that
24 you say it took that you were delayed because it
25 changed from Mr. Betare to Mr. Hakkar? Mr.
2424
1 D. King-Cross
2 Hakkar agreed to fight on August 17.
3 A. Could I answer now?
4 Q. Yes. Where is the three months?
5 A. The fight that Mr. Sulaiman just
6 congratulated us on finalizing is the Betare
7 fight that goes back. That means we had been
8 through negotiations for several months in
9 getting Betare to fight.
10 At the end of the consummation where
11 Mr. -- the conclusion of the negotiations where
12 Mr. Acaries said send me the contract, we send
13 the contract to him and we announced to the WBC
14 that we have an agreement in a fight.
15 Now you see in that letter that you
16 just gave me from Dana Jamison, after all of that
17 time and negotiating for Mr. Betare and sending
18 out a contract, we find that we don't have a
19 signed contract in return, so that is the time --
20 if we were negotiating for Mr. Hakkar at the
21 beginning, the fight would have been -- it
22 wouldn't have been no problem, but we lost two or
23 three months negotiating for Betare who had --
24 that never came off, and what you are saying is
25 the conclusion of a letter that first after the
2425
1 D. King-Cross
2 announcement that we had the fight done, then a
3 letter to intervene to help us to get a signed
4 contract back, and then in conclusion that the
5 fight had went off and a new appointee had been
6 there, and we started negotiating for the new
7 appointment in which we reduced the purse
8 substantially.
9 Q. Mr. Hop -- Mr. King --
10 A. I understand.
11 Q. Well, you said you're both of the same
12 alma mater. You were talking about Mr. Betare on
13 the 19th, right?
14 A. On the 19th we were talking about Mr.
15 Betare getting him to send a signed contract
16 back.
17 Q. By the 26th, Mr. Betare was gone. You
18 had negotiated a deal with Mr. Acaries for Mr.
19 Hakkar, and, instead of paying $400,000, you were
20 only paying $275,000, correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. By the 29th, you had an agreement with
23 Mr. Hopkins to fight Mr. Hakkar for a million 1,
24 signed by Mr. Hopkins?
25 A. Yes.
2426
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You had signed agreements from both
3 fighters by the 29th of July to fight Mr. Hakkar,
4 ten days after you were talking about Mr. Betare,
5 right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And that fight was scheduled to occur
8 on August 17?
9 A. If Mr. Hopkins would have agreed to
10 the Showtime agreement, that fight would have
11 taken place on August 17. We had a three-fight
12 deal and forcing Hakkar, which I didn't even know
13 how bad he was to be put on television, they were
14 willing to take the embarrassment or they didn't
15 know it was going to be embarrassing or not.
16 They were willing to take the risk to get the two
17 good fights, Calzaghe and Simon, whatever his
18 name is. His name is Simon. Harry Simon.
19 So, in his own inimitable style, Mr.
20 Hopkins did not agree to that deal. The
21 television deal was lost, and HBO didn't want no
22 part of Mr. Hakkar. They didn't want no more
23 mandatories from Mr. Hopkins.
24 Q. HBO or Showtime or what?
25 A. No, but I am saying I had lost the
2427
1 D. King-Cross
2 Showtime deal, which they would have in order to
3 be able to get Mr. Hopkins' services on Showtime,
4 they would go the extra mile to take the risk of
5 one of these mandatories with the caveat that
6 they would get the two good matches that they
7 know that would really get them good ratings,
8 Calzaghe and Harry Simon.
9 Q. You never even discussed the Showtime
10 deal with Mr. Hopkins or Mr. Joseph until July
11 30, did you?
12 A. Mr. Hopkins and Mr. Joseph went to
13 Showtime before me, and they told Showtime --
14 even, in fact, Mr. Hopkins wrote a letter --
15 Q. Can you answer my question?
16 A. I'm just telling you. Don't say I
17 discussed it. They brought me into the deal.
18 Q. I asked a very simple question, which
19 I would like him to answer that, and then I don't
20 mind, unlike Mr. Burstein, if he wants to rattle
21 on.
22 A. I am a rattler now.
23 Q. Rattle.
24 A. I am a rattler.
25 Q. My question is wasn't the first time
2428
1 D. King-Cross
2 that you discussed the Showtime deal with either
3 Mr. Hopkins or Mr. Joseph July 30th?
4 A. Is that the day we went to the meeting
5 with Showtime?
6 Q. That is the date that is referenced in
7 --
8 MR. BURSTEIN: I'll stipulate that is
9 the day they went to the Showtime meeting.
10 A. We went to Showtime that day together.
11 Q. July 30 was the first time that you
12 discussed the Showtime deal with Mr. Hopkins?
13 A. No. Mr. Hopkins, yes. That may be
14 the first time it was discussed with Mr. Hopkins,
15 but Mr. Joseph --
16 Q. It's Exhibit 66, by the way.
17 A. Mr. Joseph, I told him about the
18 Showtime deal and what they were doing. It was
19 not the first time that I discussed it with him.
20 Q. Do you have anything anywhere that you
21 know of that indicates that any part of the
22 Showtime deal was transmitted to Mr. Hopkins or
23 Mr. Joseph before July 30?
24 A. I -- no, I have nothing.
25 Q. You decided not to go forward on
2429
1 D. King-Cross
2 August 17, is that correct?
3 A. I decided?
4 Q. Yes.
5 A. No. I didn't decide that.
6 Q. Well, you had contracts from both
7 fighters. If you wanted to go forward, they
8 would have had to go, right?
9 A. No, we were trying to get the deal
10 with Showtime. We needed somebody that was going
11 to pay for that.
12 Q. Who had to get that deal?
13 A. I had to get a deal with the
14 television network in order to be able to do
15 that, and I was being encumbered by not being
16 able to do that, because Mr. Hopkins decided that
17 he didn't want to do the deal.
18 Q. You decided not to go forward, because
19 you said you couldn't get a TV deal that was
20 satisfactory to you, right?
21 A. Satisfactory to us, because in order
22 for the fight to go on, they wasn't going to
23 fight for free, and, since they weren't going to
24 fight for free, I had to get a television deal in
25 order to do the deal. I did get a television
2430
1 D. King-Cross
2 deal against all odds, and then it was rejected.
3 Q. We already talked about you were
4 negotiating the million 1 with Mr. Hopkins long
5 before you were talking to Showtime?
6 A. I still -- it was incumbent upon me to
7 get a deal with the TV network. If the deal is
8 done, at least I would know what to negotiate
9 for.
10 Q. You were negotiating, you said earlier
11 today, since March, this million 1.
12 MR. BURSTEIN: I don't think that is
13 what the testimony was.
14 MR. OLIN: That is exactly what he
15 said.
16 MR. BURSTEIN: No, he said that you
17 were negotiating between March and now. He
18 didn't say you were negotiating $1.1 million
19 between March.
20 MR. OLIN: That is exactly what he
21 said.
22 MR. BURSTEIN: Let's go back to the
23 testimony.
24 MR. OLIN: Let's not.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's not argue. Ask
2431
1 D. King-Cross
2 him a question.
3 Q. You had been negotiating with Mr.
4 Hopkins about the Betare agreement since March,
5 correct?
6 A. That is correct.
7 Q. And you had come to an agreement for
8 the million 1, which you had been negotiating
9 since March which was before you were talking to
10 Showtime, right?
11 A. I didn't have the agreement with
12 Betare. Bernard can fight. As good as he is,
13 they are not going to pay him to shadow box. You
14 have got to have two people to fight, Mr. Olin.
15 Q. Mr. King, I am talking about the purse
16 negotiation with Bernard Hopkins. You negotiated
17 that starting in March with him and ended it in
18 July before you had the Showtime deal.
19 A. That is usually the way it should be.
20 Q. So you had agreed to pay Mr. Hopkins a
21 million 1 for that fight before you had any idea
22 that there was a Showtime deal?
23 A. I had agreed to pay Mr. Hopkins a
24 million 1 predicated on me being able to work out
25 a satisfactory television deal. Nobody wanted
2432
1 D. King-Cross
2 the fights. The fights were on market value.
3 They did not warrant it, but I wanted to fight a
4 big fight where I could get some of my money back
5 and to make some money for my investment of time,
6 effort, and to make Bernard rich, and we never
7 could achieve that purpose because we were always
8 impeded by Bernard's and Arnold's rejections and
9 reneging on fighting.
10 Q. Look at Exhibit 56 again. The WBC in
11 the third paragraph says it will not accept any
12 postponements, correct?
13 A. Yes, that is what it says.
14 Q. Now you see all the c.c.'s down at the
15 bottom right?
16 A. Over here?
17 Q. C.c. down in the bottom right.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Does this come in to who? Who does
20 this come to that puts all those c.c.'s on it?
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. Okay, but the initials are Don King,
23 Dana Jamison and Bobby Goodman?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Those are all people at DKP?
2433
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. There is no c.c. to Arnold Joseph, is
4 there?
5 A. He is not dealing with Arnold Joseph.
6 He has no right to be -- that is what the problem
7 is.
8 Q. What were you about to say? He has no
9 right what?
10 A. No, not about what what. I'm saying
11 the problem is that he is sending this to me. If
12 he wants to send letters to Mr. Joseph, he sent
13 them to Mr. Joseph. Mr. Joseph is not a part of
14 my office.
15 Q. You just started to say he has no
16 right. Are you saying that Mr. Joseph has no
17 right to know what's going on with his fighter?
18 A. No, don't do that. You are too classy
19 for that.
20 Q. No. You said it.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Enough
22 here. Finish your answer and we'll have
23 another question.
24 A. You are too classy for that.
25 Q. What doesn't he have a right to?
2434
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. No. Sulaiman I was saying has no
3 right to c.c. Arnold Joseph. This is an in-house
4 communication, and Arnold Joseph is not a part of
5 my office.
6 Q. Is this how you intended to keep Mr.
7 Joseph informed of what was going on with the
8 sanctioning organizations by not sending copies
9 of communication with the sanctioning
10 organizations to him?
11 A. He perhaps received a copy, but he
12 would not have an in-house notation about what it
13 is inside of my building. If they sent him one,
14 I think then they'd send him several different
15 communications and correspondence, but, if she
16 sends it to him, it would be blind copy as far as
17 my office is concerned. If they want to make it
18 open, they can make it open. It's up to them.
19 Q. We are going to talk about that. Do
20 you want to finish the thought when you said he
21 has no right?
22 A. You killed it. You knocked it out.
23 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 80 now. Before
24 we get to that, did you ever offer Bernard
25 Hopkins a million 5 to fight Mr. Hakkar or Mr.
2435
1 D. King-Cross
2 Betare?
3 A. That was not one of my designated
4 opponents. Every opponent that I ever designated
5 for Mr. Hopkins to fight he never got an offer
6 for less than the million and a half minimum.
7 More than likely it was twice as much as the
8 minimum. Any opponent that I designated for him
9 was twice as much, and, if he had fought Tito
10 Trinidad, it was three times plus his minimum,
11 and he would have received somewhere around $15
12 million.
13 Q. I'll ask it again. Did you ever offer
14 Mr. Hop --
15 A. Never offered anything on these
16 designated opponents by somebody else.
17 Q. Can I finish the question, so that the
18 record is clear? Did you ever offer Mr. Hopkins
19 a million and a half dollars or more to fight
20 either Mr. Betare or Mr. Hakkar?
21 A. I don't recall. I don't think so.
22 Q. You don't think he would have turned
23 that down if he was willing to accept a million
24 1, do you?
25 A. Yes, I do.
2436
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You think he would have turned down a
3 million 5?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. He would have been willing to fight
6 for a million 1, but not the million 5?
7 A. It doesn't matter. If I had offered
8 it to him, he would have turned it down.
9 Q. Let's look at Exhibit 80. This is now
10 September 9, 2002, right? Is that correct?
11 A. Yes. September 9.
12 Q. Again, you have Dana Jamison writing
13 to one of the sanctioning organizations telling
14 them that you have got a deal for Mr. Hopkins to
15 fight Mr. Hakkar.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Is this the July contract that you
18 were talking about here?
19 A. Where is that?
20 Q. Which contract are you talking about
21 here? You say --
22 MR. BURSTEIN: First of all, he is not
23 talking there.
24 Q. Which contract is DKP talking about
25 when it says that you have a signed contract to
2437
1 D. King-Cross
2 fight Moorad Hakkar on September 9, 2002?
3 A. What is your question?
4 Q. Which contract?
5 A. I don't know. All I know is that this
6 is the method in which we worked with
7 organizations. We always try to keep them
8 apprised of what is going on so that we don't
9 have problems, so then we, if we ask for
10 something, we can get that too. So we notified
11 them that it's the Hakkar fight that has been
12 signed for, so that they won't come
13 simultaneously with both mandatories at the same
14 time, where you can't fight one and then, by a
15 technical aspect, you have got a problem, so we
16 try to keep everybody appraised, and we do it
17 beforehand rather than waiting until the last
18 minute.
19 Q. So you keep the sanctioning
20 organizations apprised by lying to them?
21 A. Is that a lie?
22 Q. I am asking you. Isn't it?
23 A. No. I didn't think it was a lie.
24 Q. What contract are you talking about?
25 A. This letter speaks for itself. It
2438
1 D. King-Cross
2 says it is talking about please be advised that
3 we have Bernard Hopkins has signed a contract to
4 defend his WBC mandatory against Moorad Hakkar of
5 France.
6 Q. What contract are you talking about?
7 A. I don't know. This is Dana Jamison,
8 this ain't me.
9 Q. Do you know of a contract that he has
10 signed that is still in effect on September 9,
11 2002 to fight Moorad Hakkar that is in DKP's
12 files?
13 A. I don't know. You have to ask Dana
14 that.
15 Q. Has one been produced in this case?
16 A. I said I don't know. I don't know
17 anything about that. If there is stuff in there,
18 I think she could explain it better than I could.
19 Q. The only contract we have is not
20 signed by you. It is the July 29 contract for a
21 bout on August 17 that you canceled because you
22 didn't have a TV deal. Do you know of any
23 others?
24 A. No. First, let me correct you. I did
25 not cancel the bout. He rejected the bout. Since
2439
1 D. King-Cross
2 he canceled it, then I don't have any others that
3 I can present to you right now.
4 Q. Are you telling me that it is Mr.
5 Hopkins who has the right to cancel a bout?
6 A. Yes, just like he has done. By
7 rejecting a bout, it doesn't make any difference.
8 It doesn't come off.
9 Q. Let's look at the exhibit. Exhibit 65.
10 Do you have the exhibit in front of you?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Mr. Hopkins signed this agreement,
13 right? He agreed to fight, correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Look at paragraph 7C. Where in
16 paragraph 7C does it say that Bernard Hopkins has
17 the right to cancel this bout?
18 A. I am certain that it doesn't say that
19 Bernard Hopkins had the right to cancel the bout.
20 Q. You believe in the sanctity of
21 contracts?
22 A. I do.
23 Q. And they mean what they say and they
24 say what they mean?
25 A. Yes.
thehype
2440
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. And you want to live by your
3 contracts?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. This contract says at the bottom of
6 paragraph 7C on this first page of it, "Promoter
7 may," that is you, promoter, right? Are you the
8 promoter?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. "Promoter may at its sole option
11 cancel this agreement as it relates to the bout
12 or terminate this agreement." Right? That is
13 what it says?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Then it says -- what does the next
16 line say? Why don't you read that one for us.
17 Read it out loud.
18 A. "As there's nothing contained herein
19 shall be deemed to grant to fighter any right of
20 approval over any agreement, promoter may
21 negotiate with respect to the television
22 broadcast of the bout or the site."
23 Q. You canceled the bout, didn't you?
24 A. He didn't fight.
25 Q. I want to talk about one other thing
2441
1 D. King-Cross
2 in this agreement. As of this date, where is
3 this bout supposed to take place? What is the
4 location?
5 It is not a hard question.
6 A. No, it isn't. I just have to be very,
7 very cautious with you. It says the fight will
8 take place at the Lukor Center in Philadelphia.
9 Q. This fight as of July has already been
10 negotiated for Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, right?
11 A. This fight has been demanded by
12 Bernard Hopkins to be fought in Philadelphia. I
13 would have chose another site where I could have
14 been compensated, but I allowed Bernard and to
15 favor his wishes, we went to Philadelphia,
16 because Bernard demanded such that we fight in
17 Philadelphia.
18 Q. Going back to Exhibit 80. Do you have
19 Exhibit 80?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. As of September 9, you had no date for
22 this fight. You had no contract for the fight.
23 You had no site for the fight, did you?
24 A. What was the one you just gave me?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: That was for August 17.
2442
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. It doesn't matter about the site. I
3 had to get a site, because my commitment to Mr.
4 Hopkins was that this fight whenever it took
5 place would be in Philadelphia, and I honored
6 that commitment to Mr. Hopkins even to my own
7 economic detriment. I honored that commitment to
8 Mr. Hopkins because he demanded that it be fought
9 in Philadelphia.
10 Q. Take a look at page 253 of your
11 deposition, volume 2, last line of page 253, line
12 25. Let me ask if you gave this answer to this
13 question:
14 "That you had no date for the fight.
15 You had no contract that you were willing to sign
16 for the fight. You had no location for the
17 fight. That there was no fight at that point
18 that was scheduled pending that Mr. Hopkins
19 according to you had agreed to, isn't that
20 correct?
21 "Answer: Yes."
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. That is your testimony?
24 A. Yes, that is my testimony, and it is
25 true.
2443
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So, when Ms. Jamison wrote this letter
3 to Ms. Mohammed, she was misleading her at the
4 very least, wasn't she?
5 A. No. All Ms. Jamison said --
6 MR. BURSTEIN: I was going to make a
7 relevance objection, but certainly we don't
8 need any more testimony on this.
9 Q. Did you ever pay Mr. Hopkins a million
10 1 for his fight against Mr. Hakkar?
11 MR. BURSTEIN: I will stipulate that
12 he didn't.
13 A. No.
14 Q. You didn't pay him a million 5 either,
15 did you?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Look at Exhibit 90 if you would. You
18 recognize this, don't you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. I am going to talk about this in some
21 detail later, but I just have a couple of
22 questions about it here. Did you pay Mr. Hopkins
23 the $750,000 that you had agreed to pay him
24 pursuant to this October 4, 2002 agreement?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: My only objection is
2444
1 D. King-Cross
2 that we know what was paid. Why do you have
3 to ask? I will stipulate he wasn't paid
4 $750,000. He wasn't given 50 percent of the
5 gate above.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: We know that. It is
7 cross-examination. He can develop his line
8 of examination however he wants, but, yes,
9 we know that.
10 Q. You didn't pay him 750, did you?
11 A. No, because this agreement never went
12 into effect.
13 Q. You testified at length yesterday that
14 Mr. Cozen was an honorable man?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Were you here for Mr. Cozen's
17 testimony in this case?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Did you call Mr. Cozen either the day
20 of the purse bid or the day after the purse bid
21 and say to him the purse bid happened, but don't
22 we still have a deal, because you wanted to keep
23 this deal on October 4, 2002?
24 A. I don't recall.
25 Q. Do you deny that you made that phone
2445
1 D. King-Cross
2 call?
3 A. I don't deny. I said I don't recall.
4 Q. If Mr. Cozen testified that you did
5 so, would you disagree with him?
6 A. I don't recall.
7 Q. Assuming for purposes of argument that
8 there was such a phone call after the purse bid
9 in which you asked Mr. Cozen, do we still have a
10 deal pursuant to this agreement, even though the
11 purse bid went forward, and he said, yes, did you
12 live up to the terms of this agreement?
13 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
15 MR. OLIN: I can't ask him a
16 hypothetical?
17 MR. BURSTEIN: That one is
18 particularly argumentative and is based on
19 asking him to assume something that he is
20 not prepared to assume because he says he
21 can't remember.
22 MR. OLIN: All hypotheticals are
23 asking people to assume something.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: This one is directed
25 into the teeth of his inability to recollect
2446
1 D. King-Cross
2 something factually.
3 MR. OLIN: Fine.
4 Q. The next time that you rescheduled the
5 Hakkar bout was for January 11, correct? Look at
6 Exhibit 94.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. This is after the WBC has already told
9 you earlier in July 16 that there will be no more
10 postponements, correct?
11 A. I think the time chronologically bears
12 you out.
13 Q. Now you are asking for a further
14 extension to January 11 even after the purse bid,
15 because the purse bid would have required this by
16 January 6, I guess, right, if I just used Ms.
17 Jamison's calculations?
18 MR. BURSTEIN: I think the math is
19 right.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Now the purse bid would have required
22 you to pay Mr. Hopkins $1,125,000, correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you pay him that?
25 A. No.
2447
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Take a look if you would -- was Mr.
3 Joseph sent a copy of this letter by Exhibit 94?
4 He wasn't sent a copy of this letter asking for
5 even a further extension of the fight, was he, by
6 Ms. Jamison?
7 A. I don't know.
8 Q. He doesn't show as a copy here, does
9 he?
10 A. I don't know.
11 MR. BURSTEIN: I concede it doesn't
12 show.
13 A. No.
14 Q. Look at Exhibit CB from the defense
15 book. Do you remember this document?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Is it fair to say that as of December
18 11, 2002 you still didn't have a date and a site
19 and that the WBC is threatening if you don't give
20 them a date and a site within 15 days that they
21 are going to give the fight to Mr. Acaries?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. I just want to ask you a question
24 there. Down at the bottom, it says "Fax to
25 Arnold Joseph with letter." Do you see that?
2448
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Do you remember Ms. Jamison said that
4 that was her note? Is that her testimony?
5 A. If that's her testimony, it's her
6 note.
7 Q. There is no fax confirmation or letter
8 in your file transmitting this to Mr. Joseph, is
9 there, in fact?
10 A. I don't know, but, if Ms. Jamison said
11 she faxed it, I am pretty sure she did.
12 MR. OLIN: Judd, will you stipulate
13 that there is no such note or fax
14 confirmation?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: Absolutely, yes.
16 Q. Let's take us up to December 11. You
17 have a signed contract for Mr. Hopkins in July to
18 fight Mr. Hakkar for a million 1. Then you have
19 an agreement in October where you are going to
20 pay him $750,000 to fight Mr. Hakkar.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection. He says
22 that there was no agreement.
23 Q. You signed an agreement by which you
24 would agree under certain conditions to pay Mr.
25 Hopkins $750,000 to fight Mr. Hakkar?
2449
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. And I would have, had the agreement --
3 had the conditions been met, it would have been a
4 fait accompli.
5 Q. Then you did a purse bid which
6 required you to pay him a million 125,000 dollars
7 for the fight, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Which would have established the value
10 of this fight, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Then it is December 11. You haven't
13 signed a contract for 750 or a million 1-1/4, and
14 it is 11 months since Mr. Hopkins has last
15 stepped into the ring, isn't it?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. On December 13, you meet with Mr.
18 Hopkins, I think you said at the hotel at
19 Bally's?
20 A. I believe it was at the hotel in
21 Bally's.
22 Q. You get him to sign Exhibit 97?
23 MR. BURSTEIN: I object to the form.
24 Who cares?
25 Q. Right?
2450
1 D. King-Cross
2 THE CHAIRMAN: Withdrawn.
3 A. He signed a contract on that date.
4 Q. Exhibit 97. And you said yesterday
5 that you went all the way down to $705,000,
6 because now Mr. Hopkins wanted the fight in
7 Philadelphia.
8 A. He always wanted the fight in
9 Philadelphia.
10 Q. But you had already agreed to
11 Philadelphia back in July?
12 A. I agreed to Philadelphia when he asked
13 me that he wanted to fight in Philadelphia, and
14 in every negotiation he wanted to fight in
15 Philadelphia, and so it is not a new advent, it
16 is something that he has also always wanted to
17 do, and I had the press conference with him with
18 Mayor Street in Philadelphia announcing that he
19 would fight in Philadelphia, so it has never been
20 a question of that.
21 Bernard also knew that I had an offer
22 of a fee, a site fee in Atlantic City, so he
23 said, I am taking a hit. You have to take a hit
24 for your great champion, and I went along with
25 that.
2451
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. I want to talk just a little bit about
3 this meeting that you had in the hotel. As of
4 this time, December '02, Mr. Hopkins had already
5 fought Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad and Carl
6 Daniels, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And, according to Mr. Burstein's
9 calculations, he put about $5.9 million in his
10 pocket from those three fights, is that right?
11 A. It should have been about 20 million,
12 but Hopkins wouldn't fight. That was a meager
13 amount.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: He's asking you about
15 what he made for the first three fights.
16 Q. About $5.9 million in his pocket?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Yesterday, you described Mr. Hopkins
19 as a man who has his first acorn. Isn't that the
20 language you used?
21 A. Yes. It is a street vernacular.
22 Q. Mr. Hopkins is a frugal guy?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. He is not a spendthrift by any stretch
25 of the imagination, is he?
2452
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. No.
3 Q. Very careful with his money?
4 A. That is what he says.
5 Q. You believe that, don't you? You so
6 described him. A man who has his first acorn.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Yet, it is your testimony that Mr.
9 Hopkins went into this meeting and said, I need
10 $305,000 so I can post a bond?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And it wasn't since he had been
13 sitting on the pine for 11 months so he could get
14 in your pocket to make sure that you would
15 actually put this fight on in March?
16 A. No.
17 Q. You are sticking to that, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. I wonder what happened to those first
20 set of acorns, Mr. King. Do you know? The 5.9
21 million acorns, do you know where they went?
22 A. Mr. Hopkins has a way that he don't
23 want to use his money. He will tell you straight
24 out, I got it, but I don't want to use mine.
25 Q. That is exactly my point. He had the
2453
1 D. King-Cross
2 money, didn't he?
3 A. Yes, there was no reason -- I have no
4 problem with that.
5 Q. He didn't need your money to post the
6 bond, did he?
7 A. Apparently he did.
8 Q. Well, he wanted your money to post the
9 bond?
10 A. That was -- the end result is that he
11 got it. He asked for it, and I gave it to him.
12 Q. But it is a lot different saying I
13 would like to get the money from you to post the
14 bond than it is that I need the money because I
15 don't have it, isn't it?
16 MR. BURSTEIN: I don't think he said I
17 need the money. I object to this.
18 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained. The point
19 is understood.
20 MR. BURSTEIN: I sort of if you could
21 avoid the southern accents, Mike?
22 MR. OLIN: I don't do it on purpose.
23 It is a function of where I have lived for
24 50 years.
25 MR. BURSTEIN: It doesn't sound like
2454
1 D. King-Cross
2 that.
3 MR. OLIN: Believe me. I'm not doing
4 it on purpose.
5 Q. Mr. Hopkins didn't actually fight this
6 mandatory bout until March 29, 2003, did he?
7 A. That is the right date, yes.
8 Q. 14 months after he fought Carl
9 Daniels, right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now the truth is, Mr. King, that you
12 squeezed and squeezed and squeezed Mr. Hopkins
13 and you kept him on the pine and you didn't live
14 up to your obligation to pay him a million 5.
15 You didn't pay him the million 1. You didn't pay
16 him the 750. You didn't pay him the purse bid,
17 and you squeezed him until December. So that he
18 could get a fight, he agreed to 705. Isn't that
19 what happened?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
22 Argumentative.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: Overruled. It's within
24 cross-examination.
25 Q. You made on this fight a million
2455
1 D. King-Cross
2 71,347 dollars, according to your records, didn't
3 you?
4 A. If that is what the records say, that
5 is what it is.
6 Q. Well, they do.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: I will take your
8 representation.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you ever tell Bernard how much
11 money you made on the fights he fought for you?
12 A. I never told him how much I lose too.
13 Q. Is the answer no?
14 A. No.
15 Q. You don't tell any of your fighters
16 how much money you make on the fights you put on,
17 do you?
18 A. And I don't tell them how much I lose
19 either.
20 Q. But you know how much they make, don't
21 you?
22 A. We negotiate that. That is what
23 negotiating is.
24 Q. I'm not arguing the point. You know
25 what they make, but they don't know what you
2456
1 D. King-Cross
2 make.
3 A. Well, I don't know about that. With
4 the Muhammed Ali Act, you have to disclose all
5 your contracts, whatever deals you make in a
6 fight.
7 Q. If you want to do that, let's look at
8 the Muhammed Ali disclosure.
9 Take a look at number 11. This is
10 your official Muhammed Ali disclosure for the
11 Trinidad fight, isn't it?
12 A. This is Trinidad?
13 Q. Yes. September 29. You see the date
14 up there?
15 A. Where is the date?
16 Q. The date is up -- it is for Trinidad.
17 A. Okay.
18 Q. You made $9 million in pay-per-view
19 income on this fight, didn't you?
20 A. Is that what it says?
21 Q. No, it doesn't say that, but I am
22 asking you, didn't you make $9 million in
23 pay-per-view income on this fight?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. You want me to show it to you?
2457
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: I will take your
3 representation that it was $9 million in
4 pay-per-view.
5 Q. It is in the documents that you
6 produced to Mr. Love that you made $9 million in
7 pay-per-view income on this fight.
8 A. The documents speak for themselves,
9 yes.
10 Q. It doesn't tell Mr. Hopkins how much
11 money you made in pay-per-view. It doesn't even
12 give him an estimate of how much money you are
13 going to make on pay-per-view, does it?
14 A. No.
15 Q. So a fighter really can't even figure
16 out how much money you made from your Ali
17 disclosure, can he?
18 A. Not that I know of.
19 MR. OLIN: This is as good a place as
20 any to change the tape.
21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
22 12:48. This is the end of tape one. We are
23 going off the record.
24 (Recess taken).
25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
2458
1 D. King-Cross
2 12:51. This marks the beginning of tape
3 two. On the record.
4 BY MR. OLIN:
5 Q. One further thing about what you want
6 your fighters to know or don't know. In this
7 case, Mr. King, you produced to Mr. Love, your
8 damages expert, and to us ledger printouts and
9 all sorts of financial documentation concerning
10 your books and records for Mr. Hopkins' fights,
11 some of Mr. Trinidad's fights, is that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. But those were produced as
14 confidential, were they not, for use nowhere
15 other than in this lawsuit?
16 A. Whatever my accounting department and
17 lawyers do with that, I've got a good accounting
18 department and an outside accounting firm of
19 Krusch & Modell, one of the top in the country.
20 Q. You don't want your fighters to know
21 what money you make on these fights, do you?
22 A. It doesn't bother me one way or the
23 other.
24 Q. You don't tell them?
25 A. If they ask me.
2459
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. OLIN: This is as good a time as
3 any to take a break.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: We will recess for
5 lunch until 2 o'clock.
6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:53
7 p.m. We are off the record.
8 (Lunch taken: 12:53 p.m.)
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2460
1 D. King-Cross
2 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N
3 1:58 p.m.
4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now going on
5 the record. The time is 2 p.m. on April 6,
6 2005. This is the videotaped testimony of
7 Frank Warren in the matter of Bernard
8 Hopkins, Jr. Versus Don King, et al.
9 THE CHAIRMAN: We decided to interrupt
10 the testimony of Mr. King to accommodate the
11 schedule of Mr. Warren who will be the next
12 witness.
13 Would you swear the witness, please.
14 F R A N K W A R R E N,
15 having been first duly sworn by the Notary
16 Public (Joseph R. Danyo), was examined and
17 testified as follows:
18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. BURSTEIN:
20 Q. Mr. Warren, where do you reside?
21 A. Hopfordshire in England.
22 Q. In what business are you in?
23 A. I am a boxing promoter and manager.
24 Q. Can you name some of the champions
25 over the years you have promoted?
2461
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 A. Prince Nasim Muhammed, Frank Bruno,
3 Joe Calzaghe, Ricky Hand.
4 Q. Joe Calzaghe is one of the fighters
5 you promote?
6 A. Promote and manage.
7 Q. In England it is not against the law
8 to both promote and manage, correct?
9 A. You can promote and manage boxers. So
10 you can promote and manage boxers.
11 Q. Did there come a time in 2002 at which
12 you were interested in matching your fighter, Joe
13 Calzaghe, against Bernard Hopkins?
14 A. That's correct. It was around
15 May/June. I wanted to make a fight. In fact I
16 remember writing to Don King sending him a fax
17 asking him to contact me. I chased him quite a
18 bit.
19 Q. Let me just show you, take a look, I
20 don't know if you have it, take a look at Exhibit
21 AD. It is a fax from Mr. Warren to Don King.
22 The date is June 17, 2002.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: For some reason that is
24 not what I have as AD in my book.
25 MR. BURSTEIN: You know why, because
2462
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 it's AO. Sorry. I can't even read the
3 writing.
4 Q. Is Exhibit AO a fax that you sent to
5 Mr. King?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. On June 17, 2002?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. Am I correct that as of that time you
10 have been trying to reach Mr. King to try and
11 make the Calzaghe fight and you have been
12 unsuccessful?
13 A. Unsuccessful, and also asked Showtime,
14 Jay Larkin or the people at Showtime, the
15 broadcasters, if they would contact them as well
16 and ask them to contact me.
17 Q. Did there come a time at a later date
18 when you started having serious conversations
19 with Don King about a Calzaghe-Hopkins fight?
20 A. Yes, it was probably sometime -- it
21 was obviously after that letter. I'm not sure of
22 the specific date but probably sometime in July.
23 Q. In the course of those discussions
24 with Don King, did you have discussions with Don
25 King and anybody else on conference calls?
2463
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 A. I had some discussions between Don and
3 myself and then he told me he had problems with
4 Bernard Hopkins inasmuch as he said he is very
5 difficult to deal with and he demonstrated how
6 difficult it was to deal with. He would put me
7 in touch -- he would link in a representative of
8 Bernard Hopkins who I believe was his lawyer.
9 Q. Did you have discussions about the
10 finances of a Joe Calzaghe fight on those calls
11 with the lawyer and Don King?
12 A. I believe there were at least two
13 calls. The first call was I pointed out to them
14 because I had been doing quite a few shows with
15 Showtime, that the most money they were prepared
16 to pay for the fight, the rights fee, was $3
17 million.
18 Q. Did Don King express his view of how
19 the money should be, so to speak, backed up?
20 A. He wanted the $3 million.
21 Q. Did he say where he wanted it to go?
22 A. He said that had to go to Bernard
23 Hopkins and then I would have to pay Calzaghe
24 from my -- the monies that I generated from
25 ticket sales and from TV sales from U.K. and
2464
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 around the world, and the profit, any profit the
3 show made that Don and I would reach an agreement
4 how we'd split that.
5 Q. But all of the broadcasting money from
6 the U.S. with Showtime was to go directly to
7 Bernard Hopkins?
8 A. That's what he wanted and I didn't
9 want that to happen.
10 Q. Did you have a number of discussions
11 about that?
12 A. A number of discussions but certainly
13 we did bring in, and I can't recall his name, a
14 lawyer that represented Bernard Hopkins who said
15 he wanted the $3 million. And I said that wasn't
16 possible.
17 Q. Did there come a time when you another
18 conference call with the people at Showtime, Don
19 King and somebody, and this person that you had
20 spoken to?
21 A. Showtime organized a conference call,
22 off the top of my head Don said he was on the
23 line. A lawyer.
24 Q. Was this the same person who had been
25 on the calls earlier?
2465
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 A. I believe it was. And Jay Larkin from
3 Showtime and there was another guy from Showtime,
4 but basically in between the conversations where
5 I wanted to pay $2 million outright fee and keep
6 1 million for Calzaghe, but in between that
7 conversation I decided that we would -- to get
8 the fight because I thought my man had a good
9 chance and win the fight, that we would forego
10 any money from Showtime, in other words the $3
11 million would go to Bernard Hopkins and we would
12 pay Calzaghe from our end.
13 Q. Where would Don King get paid from?
14 A. He would get paid from any profit we
15 made from the show.
16 Q. Other than the U.S. Showtime?
17 A. Correct. The Showtime money would go
18 to Bernard Hopkins.
19 Q. After you made this decision, you were
20 on a telephone call with --
21 A. With Jay Larkin, Don.
22 Q. That same lawyer?
23 A. The lawyer and there may be another.
24 Q. What happened during that call?
25 A. It was just not going to be an one-off
2466
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 deal as far as Showtime was concerned. I also
3 represented another boxer called Harry Simon, who
4 was the WBO, I think he was the light
5 middleweight champion at the time or middleweight
6 champion, and Showtime wanted to do a three-fight
7 deal. I think Bernard had a mandatory defense of
8 his title due which they were not prepared to buy
9 out from Don unless he would fight Calzaghe and
10 Harry Simon.
11 Q. With respect to Harry Simon, was the
12 deal the same, that Mr. Hopkins would get all of
13 the U.S. broadcasting money?
14 A. He wanted the $1-1/2 million. Don
15 wanted to pay $1-1/2 million to Bernard's side of
16 the table. I wanted some money from that 1-1/2
17 to pay -- to pay Harry Simon. Harry Simon is not
18 an attraction like Calzaghe is. He comes from
19 Namibia. So I would like to get some revenue
20 from somewhere.
21 Q. Do you recall whether or not there was
22 -- was there any agreement reached during this
23 phone call with the Showtime people?
24 A. Yes, it was agreed the deal was done
25 and I was told -- the deal as I just described, 3
2467
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 million going to Bernard Hopkins, I would pay
3 Calzaghe from the show and all the expenses are
4 paid from the income, and then Don and I would
5 split the money 50-50 if there was any profit.
6 Q. Did the fight ever happen?
7 A. The fight didn't happen.
8 Q. What happened?
9 A. The following day after I told
10 Calzaghe the fight was on, the following day I
11 got a call from Don saying that Bernard --
12 MR. OLIN: Objection. Hearsay.
13 MR. BURSTEIN: From Don? It is an
14 admission.
15 MR. OLIN: In your case? You can't
16 put it --
17 THE CHAIRMAN: It is on your side.
18 Sustained.
19 MR. BURSTEIN: You know what? You're
20 right.
21 Q. The fight never happened?
22 A. The fight didn't happen.
23 Q. But as far as you know, you had a deal
24 the day before you got a telephone call from Don?
25 A. We did a deal and the following day
2468
1 F. Warren-Direct
2 the deal was off.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: I have nothing further.
4 MR. OLIN: Just a couple of questions.
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. OLIN:
7 Q. Do you have anything in writing about
8 this deal?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Not a single piece of paper?
11 A. We did it -- the deal was agreed on
12 the telephone that day, and obviously it is a
13 five-hour time difference anyway, but the
14 following day it was off so nothing got put into
15 paper.
16 Q. Okay, did you have anything in writing
17 from Showtime?
18 A. No, only Jay Larkin 100 percent
19 confirmed to me that there was $3 million
20 available.
21 Q. Did you know that there was a written
22 proposal from Showtime even?
23 A. That I don't know because they
24 couldn't make the proposal to me. They had to
25 make that to Don King.
2469
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. You were going to co-promote this deal
3 with Mr. King, right?
4 A. That's correct, but I wouldn't be
5 receiving Showtime money. It was going directly
6 to Bernard Hopkins.
7 Q. At the time that you first talked to
8 Showtime, which was before you even talked to Mr.
9 King, you didn't understand that to be the case,
10 did you?
11 A. No, because before then, obviously Jay
12 Larkin and Showtime said to me there was $3
13 million available for this fight, not a cent
14 more, and that was it, and whatever it is going
15 to be, it had to be $3 million and we couldn't
16 get any more money from them.
17 Q. But you don't have anything in writing
18 from Showtime even before you called Mr. King?
19 A. No, to be quite honest about that, the
20 situation is that I never get anything up front
21 from Showtime. I have promoted with them for
22 over 12 years now and nothing up front. We agree
23 to terms and the contract is issued -- is put
24 together and sent to us for us to sign.
25 Q. But there are always written
2470
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 contracts?
3 A. Yes, before the fight, yes.
4 Q. There is always a contract between you
5 and Mr. King for a co-promotion?
6 A. We normally will draw up something,
7 yes.
8 Q. All right.
9 A. Before -- at that time, there was a
10 bit of history between Mr. King and myself.
11 Q. I was going to get to that. I was
12 going to get to that. You had a major blowout
13 with Mr. King in --
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. -- 1998 and 1999?
16 A. That's correct, yes.
17 Q. You were in the middle of a lawsuit
18 with Mr. King?
19 A. Yes. That's why Showtime were
20 negotiating, that's why I was asking Showtime as
21 you can see from my fax, would they contact him.
22 Q. So you weren't about to agree to
23 anything with Mr. King that didn't get documented
24 in writing?
25 A. Exactly right, yes. Exactly right.
2471
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. The original thought was just a fight
3 against Calzaghe?
4 A. No. I managed and also promoted Harry
5 Simon, and Showtime insisted that it be a
6 three-fight deal.
7 Q. I was going to get to that.
8 A. I'm sorry.
9 Q. I think originally you said that they
10 called you and said we've got $3 million for a
11 Hopkins-Calzaghe?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. The original deal was just Calzaghe
14 and Hopkins?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. And then Showtime said no, we want
17 three fights?
18 A. I don't know how that came about but I
19 would have pushed for Harry Simon anyway, because
20 I had broadcast quite a number of his fights.
21 Q. I think you just said that you went
22 back to Showtime and they said no, we want a
23 three-fight deal?
24 A. That's correct. Well, if I can just
25 explain that. I could only be involved in two of
2472
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 those fights. The mandatory that Bernard had
3 coming up -- had coming up, I don't know who it
4 was, maybe it was that French guy. But whoever
5 that was, that was not my business, that was
6 between Don King and the mandatory challenger.
7 Q. Okay, you don't have any idea what Mr.
8 King's contract with Mr. Hopkins was in terms of
9 what Mr. King was required to pay Mr. Hopkins, do
10 you?
11 A. No, absolutely not.
12 Q. Mr. Calzaghe was a super middleweight?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. 168 pounds?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Okay, and you don't know anything
17 about what Mr. King's obligations were to pay Mr.
18 Hopkins for fights out of his weight class?
19 A. No. All he told me is he had to pay
20 him a lot of money.
21 Q. As I understand it then, you were not
22 doing this deal on a 50-50 basis with Mr. King
23 because Mr. King was going to keep all the
24 Showtime money?
25 A. No. He told -- he said that the money
2473
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 was going direct to Bernard Hopkins.
3 Q. His side of the table was keeping all
4 of the Showtime money?
5 A. That's correct, yes.
6 Q. You would estimate the site fees and
7 the foreign fees and your end was going to amount
8 to what? What was your best take on what your
9 end was going to be?
10 A. I believed if we could have got -- if
11 that fight had happened, we would have put it on
12 in a place called Cardiff in Wales. I think we
13 would have around 30 to 40,000 people there, so
14 we probably would have taken 2 million pounds on
15 the gate, maybe more. I don't know what the
16 dollar rate was at the time.
17 There was British TV at that time, I
18 believe a pay-per-view show, Sky TV were the
19 broadcasters I worked with in the U.K. That
20 would have gone out in prime time because
21 Showtime did say that they would take it on a
22 delayed basis like they had done --
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. So we would have had the income from
25 that, plus worldwide sales and other ancillary
2474
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 rights.
3 Q. What do you think that would have
4 amounted to?
5 A. I think we may have, in dollars, I
6 can't remember what the exchange rate was at the
7 time, it's a bit more favorable now, but I think
8 around that time you are probably looking around
9 maybe 5, maybe $5 million, something like that.
10 Q. In addition to the gate?
11 A. No, inclusive.
12 Q. So $5 million, dollars for the gate
13 and for the ancillary rights?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. Okay. And that's in -- now you said
16 that since all the Showtime money was going to
17 Bernard --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- did you have a deal with Mr. King
20 as to how he was going to get paid? Had you come
21 to that conclusion?
22 A. We didn't get right down to the
23 nitty-gritty. But basically what it was was from
24 that income --
25 Q. The 5 million?
2475
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 A. -- we'd have to pay Calzaghe.
3 Q. Right.
4 A. All the rest of the guys that
5 obviously fought on the card plus the costs
6 related to the show and whatever the profit was,
7 we would split down the middle.
8 Q. So the net on the 5 million was going
9 to be 50-50?
10 A. That's correct. Sorry. Or if it
11 would have been more --
12 Q. Well, whatever it was.
13 A. Because it was pay-per-view, you never
14 knew what you are going to generate.
15 Q. Right, if you got 6 million or 8
16 million or 4 million, whatever was left you were
17 going to split that?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. So if you added up everything that was
20 going to Mr. King's side of the table though, it
21 was half of the profits from Europe plus all of
22 the money from the U.S.?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Now on the Simon deal, did you -- of
25 course you had nothing in writing yet with Mr.
2476
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 King on how that was going to be carved up?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did you have a contract with Mr.
5 Calzaghe yet?
6 A. For the fight?
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. We had agreed terms.
9 Q. What was he going to get paid?
10 A. He was going to get a minimum of $2
11 million.
12 Q. He was going to get $2 million?
13 A. Minimum.
14 Q. Had he ever made $2 million before?
15 A. He gets -- he has been getting -- he
16 was probably getting around that time about a
17 million dollars a fight. It was a big fight for
18 him. He was also a champion.
19 Q. Okay. Now Mr. Simon's fight, which
20 was the other one that you wanted to do, what was
21 the Showtime license for that if you remember?
22 A. $1-1/2 million.
23 Q. Hang on. I just want to make sure
24 that that is right. Because I think we have the
25 number.
thehype
2477
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: You do.
3 MR. OLIN: It's not in October, it's
4 in July.
5 MR. BURSTEIN: License fee will be 2
6 million.
7 MR. OLIN: Oh, sorry, 2 million. Okay.
8 Exhibit 44?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Exhibit 64.
10 MR. OLIN: 64. Mine says 3 million.
11 MR. BURSTEIN: No.
12 MR. OLIN: Look at Exhibit 64.
13 MR. BURSTEIN: You are right.
14 MR. OLIN: 3 million for Mr. Simon.
15 A. I thought $1-1/2 million.
16 Q. Had you talked to Mr. Larkin about
17 that?
18 A. I can't recall. I'll be honest with
19 you, I will tell you again, I didn't believe it
20 was going to get to that fight because I thought
21 my man would win the fight.
22 Q. Now was it early on when Mr. King told
23 you he had to give all the Showtime money to Mr.
24 Hopkins?
25 A. He told me all the time that he wanted
2478
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 $3 million all the way through.
3 Q. I am talking about for all the fights,
4 that he had to give all the Showtime money to Mr.
5 Hopkins?
6 A. He said that as far as the Calzaghe
7 fight was concerned.
8 Q. If he would have said I don't have to
9 give all the money to Mr. Hopkins, wouldn't you
10 have wanted a cut of the Showtime money?
11 A. Absolutely. Out of the 3 million for
12 the Calzaghe fight, I originally said to him 2
13 million and 1 million for Calzaghe, and then if
14 you make any difference up, your percentage of
15 the profits.
16 Q. What I am trying to understand is if
17 there was money from Showtime that was in excess
18 of the amount that Mr. King was going to pay Mr.
19 Hopkins, would you have wanted to know that?
20 A. Yes, I would have.
21 Q. Because you would have wanted a piece
22 of that?
23 A. Of course.
24 Q. Because he was now getting a piece of
25 your end over in Europe?
2479
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. You had agreed to split that with him
4 50-50?
5 A. I had agreed to split that but that
6 wasn't the case.
7 Q. I know it didn't happen but that was
8 what your deal was with him?
9 A. My deal with him was that Showtime fee
10 of $3 million was going to be paid to Bernard and
11 I would -- as I said earlier, I would pay --
12 Q. What about on the Simon fight? What
13 was the Showtime fee?
14 A. I don't believe we got brought into
15 that. I believe the conversation was at the
16 time, as far as I can recall, that all monies
17 were going to be paid to Bernard Hopkins.
18 Q. All the Showtime monies?
19 A. That is what I believed.
20 Q. That means that for event, if you look
21 at the actual document, you never saw this
22 document, did you?
23 A. I haven't seen it.
24 Q. Did you ever see this?
25 A. No, who is the document between?
2480
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. It is a Showtime document.
3 A. Obviously I'm not seeing it because it
4 was sent directly to Don.
5 Q. I understand that. You never got a
6 copy of this?
7 A. Well, I wouldn't because I agreed to
8 forfeit any money from Showtime.
9 Q. Right. Based on your understanding
10 that all the Showtime money was going to Mr.
11 Hopkins?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. And that is what Mr. King told you?
14 A. That was what Mr. King said on the
15 phone on two occasions when the lawyer was on the
16 phone.
17 Q. Okay. And you relied on that?
18 A. I did, yes.
19 Q. Certainly when you negotiated your end
20 in Europe you were relying on the fact that Mr.
21 King wasn't going to get any of the Showtime
22 money for himself?
23 A. I was relying on that and I was
24 relying on Showtime to obviously let me know what
25 was going on.
2481
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. Event number one, if you look at,
3 which was the mandatory, you would have had
4 nothing to do with that anyway?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. So that's irrelevant to you?
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. Event number two was a $3 million
9 license fee, correct?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. And event number three, which was Mr.
12 Simon, was also a $3 million license fee?
13 A. That's what that says, yes.
14 Q. Did you know that Mr. King offered Mr.
15 Hopkins only $2-1/2 million for Mr. Calzaghe and
16 only $1-1/2 million for Mr. Simon?
17 A. No.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: I object because that's
19 only an allegation.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: He either knows or
21 doesn't know.
22 A. I can answer that pretty
23 straightforward. What was said between Mr. King
24 and Mr. Hopkins, I don't know, because I was
25 never a party to a conversation, but I was
2482
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 certainly a party to the conversations with the
3 lawyer and Mr. King and Jay Larkin on the phone,
4 and on that telephone call it was said the 3
5 million was going to be paid directly to Bernard
6 Hopkins.
7 Q. For Calzaghe?
8 A. Calzaghe, yes.
9 Q. What about for Simon?
10 A. Again, I don't recollect where we got
11 with that one. I was focusing, zeroing in on the
12 Calzaghe fight. That is where my head was.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. Sorry. Obviously when it comes down
15 to nitty-gritty when we had typed contracts
16 issue, then that would have been something that
17 would have been sorted, but the Calzaghe fight
18 was the one that I wanted. I am sure Bernard
19 Hopkins would tell you that because we eventually
20 had a conversation ourselves about a year later.
21 Q. Just bear with me, I'm writing myself
22 a note so I don't forget something.
23 I want to talk about the Simon fight
24 for a moment. Again I know you said that you
25 thought your man was going to meet Mr. Hopkins
2483
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 and it probably wouldn't have gotten to the Simon
3 fight, but obviously when you do a contract --
4 A. A safeguard.
5 Q. -- and you have to safeguard yourself
6 and you would have prepared before you negotiated
7 a deal for what would have happened just in case
8 Mr. Hopkins happened to win?
9 A. You are correct. Absolutely.
10 Q. Okay. The Simon fight, again all the
11 Showtime money was going to go to Mr. Hopkins,
12 right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And what was your understanding of
15 what the European --
16 A. No, sorry, that was not the case, no.
17 The money was not all going, as I said earlier
18 on, I wanted to get some money for Harry Simon.
19 I had to get some money for him from somewhere
20 because this guy comes from Namibia, he was a
21 good fighter but he was not a big attraction, so
22 I had to get some money from somewhere.
23 Q. What was your deal?
24 A. I would have been looking for around a
25 million dollars at least for him.
2484
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. Did you have a deal?
3 A. I don't believe we did the deal.
4 Q. Okay, so you didn't even have a deal
5 with Mr. King as to how you were going to divvy
6 up the Simon money yet?
7 A. That was the case.
8 Q. Had you done any rough calculations as
9 to what the gate and the foreign TV rights and
10 the site fees and ancillary rights would have
11 done for Simon?
12 A. The fight would have taken place in
13 the U.S. so Don would have dealt with that.
14 Q. Did you have any idea from Mr. King
15 what he was telling you the Simon fight could
16 bring?
17 A. He would have to get a site fee for
18 it. I don't know what he would have got from a
19 casino.
20 Q. You just never got that far?
21 A. We never got to that, no.
22 Q. So for the Simon fight, you and Mr.
23 King had no deal?
24 A. We had no deal, we had an
25 understanding regarding that.
2485
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. You had an understanding that you
3 would make a deal?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you have an understanding with Mr.
6 Simon about what his purse would be?
7 A. For that fight, he would be looking
8 for a million dollars.
9 Q. Has he ever earned a million dollars
10 before?
11 A. It is a big fight. It is a fight for
12 unification actually, because he had won a
13 version of the title. That would be a fair
14 payment for him.
15 Q. Had he ever earned a million dollars
16 prior to that?
17 A. No, I think prior to that probably the
18 most he'd earned probably was about 400,
19 $500,000.
20 Q. Okay, now you had had trouble getting
21 top U.S. fighters for Mr. Calzaghe to fight,
22 haven't you?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. You tried to get and couldn't get Roy
25 Jones?
2486
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. You tried to get and couldn't get a
4 fellow named Ickels?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. You tried to get a fellow named
7 William Joppy?
8 A. I may have done.
9 Q. And Mr. Joppy was a King fighter?
10 A. I don't recall.
11 Q. Let me see if I can --
12 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede he was a
13 King fighter.
14 Q. Let me see if I can --
15 A. I would have probably tried to do the
16 fight because we tried to make them all.
17 Q. Let me just make sure that we are all
18 on the same page, Mr. Warren.
19 I have a news article from June 20,
20 2003 from the Western Mail where you say
21 something like -- you say -- actually you are
22 quoted, "It is not his fault men agree to fight
23 him and then pull out. Hopkins, Antoine Ickels,
24 William Joppy."
25 A. That is probably right.
2487
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. Okay, and for the Joppy fight you
3 blamed Mr. King, didn't you?
4 A. I can't recall. If you have got
5 something there.
6 Q. I do. I have another news article
7 from the Yorkshire Post --
8 MR. BURSTEIN: I'm not quite sure what
9 the relevance of whether or not he is
10 blaming Mr. King for the Joppy fight.
11 MR. OLIN: This all goes to
12 credibility of Mr. King.
13 THE CHAIRMAN: It is cross-examination
14 so he can have some cross-examination.
15 Q. Do you deny that you said, "The
16 stumbling block is Joppy's promoter Don King and
17 his manager"?
18 A. I may have said that at the time.
19 Q. April 10, 2003.
20 A. I am sure I must have said it if it's
21 there.
22 Q. And in fact, the only -- let's go
23 through who Mr. Calzaghe, before 2003 who he had
24 fought. Just prior -- well, before -- these
25 negotiations were in the summer of 2002?
2488
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 A. Yes, that's right.
3 Q. Okay, so let's see, in December of
4 2002 after this, he fought Toker Pudwill?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And before that, Miguel Angel Jimenez?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Before that, Charles Brewer?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. And I will go backwards, Will
11 McIntyre?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Mario Veet?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Richie Woodhall?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Omar Sheika?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. David Starey, Rick Thornberry?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. You really did have a lot of
22 trouble getting the top American fighters to come
23 fight him, didn't you?
24 A. Well, Brewster -- Brewer was a top
25 ten-ranked fighter at the time. So was Omar
2489
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Sheika and a couple of the other guys you
3 mentioned, they were mandatory defenses at this
4 time.
5 Q. Okay. Now prior -- right after this
6 when this deal didn't happen, you had the same
7 problem with getting fighters for Mr. Simon from
8 the U.S.?
9 A. It was a bit more difficult with him
10 because as I said, he wasn't such a big name.
11 Q. Okay.
12 A. But can I tell you the background
13 regarding Simon and Calzaghe. Around that period
14 all their fights were being broadcast by
15 Showtime, so it was with Showtime's help that we
16 were trying to make these fights. They were
17 being broadcast in the U.S.
18 Q. Okay.
19 MR. OLIN: Can we pass these around.
20 There are two more. Here's another one.
21 Q. Now after that deal fell apart, Mr.
22 Warren, you tried to resurrect the deal in
23 October, didn't you?
24 A. I have been trying to make the fight,
25 I am still trying to make it right now.
2490
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 Q. Well, you never know. But this is an
3 October 3 letter?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And it's from you to a bunch of people
6 about a tournament that you wanted to put
7 together, right?
8 A. That's correct, yes.
9 Q. Okay. And then your proposed
10 tournament was Hopkins Calzaghe, and Jones versus
11 Simon?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And then another one after that with
14 the two winners fighting each other?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. Okay. Did you ever discuss this with
17 Mr. King?
18 A. Yes, I copied him with a copy of the
19 letter.
20 Q. Did you ever discuss it with him?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Do you know if he ever presented this
23 to Mr. Hopkins?
24 A. I have no idea.
25 MR. OLIN: Could I mark that as the
2491
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 next number, I guess it would be 143.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: No problem.
4 MR. OLIN: And I have some tabs for
5 you so you can put them in your --
6 A. Sorry, regarding the question you just
7 asked me there, we also made this public to the
8 press so I am sure they would have read about it
9 in the press.
10 (Whereupon, open letter marked Exhibit
11 143 received in evidence, as of this date.)
12 Q. Now just one last thing about Mr.
13 King. Did you tell Harry Mullen of The Examiner
14 in 1998 that Mr. King goes too far when he tries
15 to destroy people?
16 MR. BURSTEIN: You know, in 1998 a
17 statement by Mr. King? I don't even know
18 what the relevance of this is.
19 MR. OLIN: No, it's a statement by
20 this witness.
21 THE CHAIRMAN: Overruled.
22 A. Can I just look at --
23 Q. Sure.
24 A. I would be honest with you. I may
25 have said that, I may have said that because at
2492
1 F. Warren-Cross
2 the time we were in very serious litigation.
3 Q. Okay.
4 A. But having said that, I never heard of
5 The Examiner. It's not an English newspaper.
6 MR. BURSTEIN: Irish.
7 MR. OLIN: That is all I have.
8 MR. BURSTEIN: I just have a few
9 questions on redirect.
10 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
11 BY MR. BURSTEIN:
12 Q. This Exhibit 143, was this something
13 known as an open letter?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And just tell Mr. Carter and I guess
16 Judge Schackman by proxy what an open letter is.
17 A. Basically what happens as the letter
18 said, we negotiate, for various reasons the
19 fights fell through. The reason the fight fell
20 through in July was after we agreed to 3 million,
21 the following day Don King says --
22 Q. You are not allowed to say what Don
23 King said.
24 A. I'm sorry. The following day I
25 understood he wanted $6 million so the fight just
2493
1 F. Warren-Redirect
2 fell out then. The press were saying you know,
3 why aren't these fights happening so I decided to
4 put that letter together and send it to all the
5 parties concerned, HBO, who Roy Jones was
6 contracted to. Showtime because we were
7 contracted at that time with Calzaghe to
8 Showtime, asking the networks to get their heads
9 together and try to make this work because there
10 are a series of good fights .And I also made the
11 letter public.
12 Q. And when you say it was public, are
13 there certain websites in boxing?
14 A. Yes. My press office just sent it out
15 everywhere.
16 Q. And it would have shown up in the
17 normal course on all these websites?
18 A. Exactly.
19 Q. You say in this letter, now just to be
20 clear, Calzaghe had an exclusive relationship
21 with Showtime, right?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. He couldn't fight on HBO, is that
24 correct?
25 A. No, not without the consent.
2494
1 F. Warren-Redirect
2 Q. And Roy Jones had an exclusive
3 relationship with HBO?
4 A. That is what I believe.
5 Q. He couldn't fight on Showtime?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. And you wrote here, "Showtime and HBO
8 recently worked well together after Lennox Lewis
9 insisted that the Tyson fight take place. That
10 promotion was a great success for all concerned.
11 I understand it generated nearly 2 million
12 pay-per-view buys. If both networks could work
13 together at the insistence of all the boxers
14 concerned, these two promotions could be great
15 pay-per-view events."
16 You couldn't even get to the point of
17 negotiating for these fights until you had the
18 networks approval, correct?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. And other than Lewis-Tyson fight, are
21 you aware of any time when HBO has ever been
22 willing to have -- expose one of its fighters
23 with exclusivity to Showtime?
24 A. Not for a long time, not for many
25 years.
2495
1 F. Warren-Redirect
2 Q. In fact, HBO, am I correct, is a much
3 bigger network than Showtime?
4 A. As far as boxing is concerned.
5 Q. I don't know if you have it over there
6 about Hertz and Avis, you know what that means,
7 it's the number two?
8 A. Yeah, yeah, Showtime would be
9 considered to be the number two to make dealings.
10 Q. In your dealings with HBO, have you
11 experienced, have they expressed to you their
12 views on their exclusive rights to certain
13 fighters?
14 A. Exactly.
15 Q. They talk about their brand name to
16 you?
17 A. That's it. They say that these are
18 fighters that we build up on their networks, on
19 their network, I should say.
20 Q. Okay. Now when you were having
21 discussions about with Showtime with Mr. Hopkins
22 and -- Mr. Hopkins' lawyer and Mr. King, was the
23 focus of the discussions on Calzaghe, on Simon,
24 Calzaghe and Simon?
25 A. It was mostly about Calzaghe because
2496
1 F. Warren-Redirect
2 that's what we see as being the big fight.
3 Q. With respect to Simon, do you have any
4 doubt that if things had not been canceled the
5 next day that you would have been able to work
6 out a deal with Mr. King?
7 A. Without a doubt.
8 Q. Was Showtime taking the lead to
9 intercede between the two of you?
10 A. That's right, because the relationship
11 between us still wasn't very good.
12 Q. And Mr. Olin asked you some questions
13 about Mr. Calzaghe and the quality of opponent he
14 has fought. Within England and Wales is he a
15 small attraction, a mid-sized attraction, a big
16 attraction in 2002?
17 A. He was -- in 2002 he was quite a good
18 attraction. He was certainly a good attraction
19 that Showtime would have taken his fight, so that
20 says something. And he is ranked number one in
21 Ring Magazine as the best pound for pound super
22 middleweight.
23 Q. You also asked -- you said at one
24 point, Mr. Olin asked you some questions about
25 whether you had any written deal. Jay Larkin was
2497
1 F. Warren-Redirect
2 the person who was running boxing at the time --
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. At Showtime?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Could you tell the panel what your
7 relationship was at the time and even is today
8 with Jay Larkin?
9 A. He is a very, very close friend of
10 mine, he's a friend, and actually most of the
11 deals we do are on the telephone and then
12 obviously the lawyers follow up and put the
13 contracts together.
14 Q. But has there ever been a time when
15 Jay Larkin has said to you, Frank, I will give
16 you my word we will do this and he hasn't done
17 it?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Okay. And finally, do you have any
20 doubt whatsoever in your mind that the lawyer you
21 spoke with one or two times with Mr. King on the
22 phone was the same lawyer for Mr. Hopkins who was
23 in the room at Showtime when you had that call?
24 A. It was the same guy. I don't recall
25 his name. It's the same guy.
2498
1 F. Warren-Recross
2 Q. No doubt that it was the same person?
3 A. No.
4 MR. BURSTEIN: I have nothing further.
5 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. OLIN:
7 Q. HBO has a lot more money than
8 Showtime?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Better deal usually available for
11 fighters and for promoters with HBO?
12 A. It depended on what the fight is, yes.
13 Q. But generally speaking --
14 A. I would say so.
15 Q. -- they've just got a lot more money?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. HBO and Showtime had done
18 co-promotions before, hadn't they?
19 A. They have, yes.
20 Q. Tyson, Lennox Lewis, for example?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. OLIN: That is all I have.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: That's it.
24 MR. OLIN: Thank you, Mr. Warren.
25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time now is
2499
1
2 2:37. This marks the end of tape one.
3 (Recess taken)
4 D O N K I N G,
5 having been previously sworn, was examined
6 and continued to testify further as follows:
7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
8 2:43. On the record.
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued)
10 BY MR. OLIN:
11 Q. I mentioned to you before that I was
12 going to come back to the agreement that you
13 reached on October 4, 2002. So would you turn,
14 please, to Exhibit 90. Do you have that in front
15 of you?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. As I understand it, this agreement was
18 the culmination of a couple of different letters
19 that went back and forth that day, which would be
20 Exhibits 88 and 89, Exhibit 88 being Mr. Joseph's
21 letter to you saying that these four things you'd
22 thought you told him were not acceptable and then
23 you wrote him back the same day saying, no, they
24 are acceptable and a purse bid will be
25 unnecessary, he wrote at the end of the letter in
2500
1 D. King-Cross
2 Exhibit 89, correct? Three lines from the bottom
3 of the second page of the letter. You can read
4 are the whole thing if you need to but...
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. You see that?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You wrote that a purse bid will be
9 unnecessary, so in response to your response to
10 Mr. Joseph's letter, Mr. Cozen wrote you back,
11 Exhibit 90, correct?
12 A. I don't know the order in which these
13 came but I got both of them here.
14 Q. 88, and then I think you told us in
15 your deposition that it was 88 first and then 89
16 and then came 90. Okay? I don't want to go over
17 that again.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: No, no, I stipulate to
19 that.
20 Q. Okay, so Mr. Cozen followed up with
21 Exhibit 90. Now when you received Exhibit 90, it
22 did not have the language below Mr. Cozen's
23 signature on the letter, did it?
24 A. No.
25 Q. You added that language?
2501
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And what you were concerned with at
4 the time was as referenced in your other letter,
5 that you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to insist that
6 this purse bid go forward?
7 A. I didn't want the purse bid to go
8 forward.
9 Q. Right, but what you said in Exhibit
10 89, a purse bid is unnecessary.
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. One wasn't needed. The person who you
13 said had been asking for it was Mr. Joseph,
14 right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And so you added the language
17 understanding your agreement that the purse bid
18 scheduled for October 7 will be canceled. This
19 is language you wrote in, right, or your office
20 typed in?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. And when you talked to Mr.
23 Cozen about this, the discussion was, Mr. Cozen,
24 your office has to cancel this purse bid?
25 A. Yes.
2502
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. And Mr. Cozen told you, don't worry,
3 we will cancel the purse bid, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. Now, before this trial took
6 place, I took your deposition?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. I took Ms. Jamison's deposition?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Okay. And you are aware that Mr.
11 Burstein in opening statement in this case in
12 response to a question from Mr. Carter said that
13 he didn't know why the purse bid went forward?
14 Are you aware of that?
15 A. I'm not aware of it, but if he said
16 it, it is a matter of record.
17 Q. Okay, just so we know, It's on page 76
18 of the trial transcript?
19 A. If I said it, I said it.
20 Q. In response to Mr. Carter's question
21 why did the purse bid go forward and Mr. Burstein
22 says, we don't know.
23 Then you were here for Ms. Jamison's
24 testimony, Mr. King?
25 A. In and out.
2503
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Well, let's take a look at what Ms.
3 Jamison testified at trial about this purse bid,
4 page 1184.
5 A. I'm sorry.
6 Q. Page 1184. This is Ms. Jamison's
7 testimony, right here in this room, after her
8 deposition was taken on direct exam by Mr.
9 Burstein. Okay?
10 "Now ultimately there was a purse bid
11 in October 2002 for the fight?
12 "Answer: Uh-huh."
13 Page 1184 of the transcript by the
14 way.
15 "Do you know why that came about?
16 "Answer: No.
17 "Question: Now in your deposition,
18 you testified that you believed that it had come
19 about because you could not get a deal done with
20 Mr. Betare's promoter. Have you seen any
21 documents since then that would lead you to
22 change your testimony?
23 "Answer: Yes.
24 "Question: Let me show you Exhibit
25 EX," which you've already got which I handed out
2504
1 D. King-Cross
2 to you all earlier. That is the agreement with
3 Mr. Hakkar for $275,000 for a fight on August 17.
4 "Let me show you EX, which is, I'll
5 bring it over. Is this the document that led you
6 to change your testimony?
7 "Answer: Yes.
8 "Question: What about this document,
9 Exhibit EX, led you to conclude," there is a
10 little colloquy here between Mr. Burstein and I
11 which is not really germane, Mr. Burstein asks
12 the question again.
13 "What about that document leads you to
14 change your testimony on this issue?
15 "Answer: That Hakkar's promoter,
16 Michele Acaries, Hakkar's promoter signed the
17 contract for AB Stars to provide the services for
18 the Moorad Hakkar fight.
19 "Question: This was of course in July
20 and the purse bit didn't take place until
21 October, right?
22 "Question: What about this agreement
23 would lead you to conclude that you couldn't get
24 a deal done in October if you had one in July?
25 "Answer: Nothing.
2505
1 D. King-Cross
2 "Question: So your testimony in your
3 deposition was just a mistake?
4 "Answer: Yes."
5 MR. BURSTEIN: You know, I recall
6 there was an objection when I was trying to
7 reask one of their witnesses about somebody
8 else's testimony and the objection was you
9 can't really ask questions about what
10 somebody else testified to. That objection
11 was sustained.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: You may or may not be
13 able to ask questions about what somebody
14 else testified to. It depends on what the
15 question is. I don't know where we are
16 going yet.
17 MR. OLIN: I am getting there.
18 Q. "Question: In fact do you know what
19 the reason for the purse bid was?
20 "Answer: No."
21 Now do you remember that testimony,
22 Mr. King, from Ms. Jamison?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you deny that that's what Ms.
25 Jamison testified to?
2506
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: I concede that was the
3 testimony.
4 MR. OLIN: All right.
5 Q. So basically before trial, Ms. Jamison
6 said she thought there was a problem with Mr.
7 Acaries, then in trial she said no, there was no
8 problem with Mr. Acaries.
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Now I object.
10 MR. OLIN: She said what she said.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
12 Q. Let's look at what you said in your
13 deposition. Let me make sure we can see where we
14 are with you, Mr. King. Starting at the bottom
15 of page 255 of your deposition, and you can
16 either look at it in your book or you can look at
17 it in here. Is this your testimony at your
18 deposition about the purse bid on October 7 under
19 oath?
20 "Question: Now I want to talk to you
21 about the letter agreement which is Exhibit 63."
22 That was the deposition number for it, 63. It is
23 actually number 90 for our purposes.
24 Did you pay Mr. Hopkins $750,000 for
25 participating in the Hakkar mandatory bout?
thehype
2507
1 D. King-Cross
2 "Answer: No.
3 "Question: Did you pay him 50
4 percent? Was that a pay-per-view bout, by the
5 way? It was, wasn't it?
6 "Answer: No.
7 "Question: You respect contracts, Mr.
8 King?
9 "Answer: Yes, I do.
10 "Question: This contract required you
11 to pay $750,000," and you said under oath, "This
12 contract was breached by his client and it burns
13 Mr. Cozen. Mr. Cozen is a very nice man. He did
14 everything he could to try to make this thing
15 happen and Arnold Joseph is a part of his law
16 firm. He became so exasperated that the guy
17 didn't do what he said he was going to do, that
18 he backed off all of this deal on this letter
19 that I agreed to do with him and they went, you
20 know.
21 "Question: How? What is it that they
22 did that backed off?
23 "Answer: They did everything that
24 they agreed to do, they didn't do. He was trying
25 to arbitrate it. It became so exasperating that
2508
1 D. King-Cross
2 Mr. Cozen himself, he is the top of the firm, got
3 involved to try to halfway resolve some of the
4 problems that Bernard was conjuring up, and after
5 trying to work this thing out for several weeks,
6 Mr. Cozen himself just backed up off that. You
7 know.
8 "The Witness: Because Bernard didn't
9 live up to the agreement." That is not true, is
10 it?
11 A. Yes, it is true.
12 Q. Bernard didn't live up to the October
13 4 agreement or you didn't?
14 A. No, Bernard didn't.
15 Q. Okay, that is your testimony, right?
16 A. That is my testimony.
17 Q. All right. "What didn't he do? What
18 wouldn't he do that is in this agreement, and
19 this agreement they were going to try to get Mr.
20 Cozen was going to try to sell tickets to the
21 fight to be able to do something in Philadelphia,
22 and we would have with the agreements that he
23 made, we could have, we would have lived with it,
24 somehow or another it went awry. This agreement
25 was contingent upon there being no purse bid and
2509
1 D. King-Cross
2 they went behind Mr. Cozen and demanded a purse
3 bid and embarrassed Mr. Cozen."
4 Who was that? Who was that who went
5 behind Mr. Cozen and demanded a purse bid and
6 embarrassed Mr. Cozen?
7 A. Arnold Joseph. Arnold Joseph called
8 for the purse bid from the beginning. Whether
9 they wouldn't be -- let me. If you want me to
10 answer, I'll answer.
11 Q. Okay. You answered.
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Let him finish.
13 A. Mr. Cozen had talked with me. You
14 have to put that into chronological order. Mr.
15 Cozen had talked to me about doing this weeks
16 before when we went to his office and I met with
17 him, he said I am going to take this over and
18 because he said he understands my frustration
19 because Bernard owed him -- owed the firm a lot
20 of money, and so then I said to him, I said I
21 want to help this guy, I said but you've got a
22 lawyer that really frustrates everything that we
23 try to do because he don't tell Bernard what the
24 truth is and Bernard himself is a recalcitrant
25 type of individual.
2510
1 D. King-Cross
2 You have to be able to deal with him
3 on a manner, he says I understand. Let me try to
4 do it. So when he said all the things that he
5 was agreeing to do that he was going to take
6 over, in the meantime this Arnold was still got
7 that letter saying go to the purse bid.
8 Now as he worked down the line he said
9 he is going to have Arnold cancel that. If
10 Arnold had canceled that purse bid a week or two
11 ahead of time, there would have been no purse
12 bid. I told him this, I said this is contingent
13 upon a purse bid because everything we discussed
14 in doing the deal because with a purse bid it
15 puts me at risk irrespective and irregardless to
16 Bernard.
17 I got a three belt champion that would
18 have went to France with his belts to fight a
19 mandatory challenger, so I had to be able to
20 protect myself if it go to a purse bid I got to
21 go to a bid.
22 Q. Is that your answer to the question I
23 asked?
24 A. That is my answer but the beginning of
25 all this is Arnold Joseph.
2511
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Okay. Now when you signed this on
3 October 4 --
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. -- forget all the beginning or before
6 that --
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. -- you just wanted him to cancel the
9 purse bid, right?
10 A. If the purse bid is canceled, I ain't
11 got no problem.
12 Q. All right, now what is it from October
13 4 to October 7 that they did that embarrassed Mr.
14 Cozen and demanded a purse bid?
15 A. Mr. Cozen and I was going to have a
16 press conference to get --
17 Q. Can you answer my question?
18 A. What I'm asking you. What I'm asking
19 you. I am trying to answer for you. Mr. Cozen
20 and I had set up a plan of trying to bring out
21 everybody in Philadelphia. Don't forget he was
22 guaranteeing to me a $3 million gate that is
23 going to be sold with tickets and he is going to
24 put his whole good efforts behind making
25 something big in Philadelphia and I was in accord
2512
1 D. King-Cross
2 with that.
3 Now the time was running out every
4 day, it was running out on him. I had two
5 meetings with him and he could not perform at
6 either meeting. And then after the second
7 meeting he sent me the letter on October 4 saying
8 he thinks he has it done. Bernard says he never
9 heard the deal anyway, so you know, it was so
10 frustrating, Bernard knew nothing about the deal.
11 Mr. Cozen was supposed to be delivering the deal.
12 What was the missing link?
13 Arnold wasn't telling Bernard what
14 Cozen had agreed to to deliver the deal. So then
15 when -- on the 4th is a Friday and on Monday is
16 the purse bid is the 7th, so you've got Saturday
17 and Sunday and Monday, and so they didn't cancel
18 the purse bid and it went through and I bet
19 myself by putting in a bid.
20 Q. They didn't cancel the purse bid and
21 you went through and protected yourself?
22 A. Yes, I protected my champion.
23 Q. That is your testimony?
24 A. Yes, I protected myself and my
25 champion. Otherwise, they would have been in
2513
1 D. King-Cross
2 France with the fight.
3 Q. On the day that you executed this
4 agreement, which was October 4 --
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. -- you knew that there were two days
7 for Mr. Cozen to try and cancel the purse bid?
8 A. That wasn't my problem. That wasn't
9 my problem. My problem -- my deal was made
10 contingent upon it being no purse offer. However
11 he was going to come about to achieve that, that
12 is why he didn't say that when I put it in there.
13 He by omission, inadvertently, he left out the
14 part that there could be no purse bid but he
15 agreed with it because he is an honorable guy. I
16 said you left this one out, Mr. Cozen, let's put
17 it in, and we put it in. And we put it in and he
18 said good.
19 Q. Okay. Now when Ms. Jamison said they
20 didn't need the purse bid because you already had
21 Hakkar on Exhibit EX, was she wrong too?
22 A. I don't know. You are putting this in
23 two different time fractions. What Ms. Jamison
24 said is what she knows. Ms. Jamison may not have
25 been privy to what Mr. Cozen and I agreed to and
2514
1 D. King-Cross
2 what I called her and told her Mr. Cozen and I
3 have just come to a concluded deal, which was
4 going to be there was no purse bid, I say but it
5 is late in the game, I say, so I said check with
6 Mr. Acaries and see if he is still on board. I
7 said and if he isn't on board, I say make certain
8 that we put a purse bid in because I'm not going
9 to let Acaries steal the fight inadvertently
10 thinking that we're going to put a purse bid in
11 and no one else has canceled it and he bid and he
12 wins the purse bid. I said put the bid in, if he
13 wins, let him beat me in a bid.
14 Q. Ms. Jamison said that you already had
15 a contract, an enforceable contract with Mr.
16 Hakkar and there was no reason for the purse bid?
17 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection. That is not
18 what she said.
19 A. I don't know what she said.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Overruled.
21 A. I don't know what she said. And the
22 benefit of the doubt whatever you want to say,
23 but I do know this, I said if there is a contract
24 and the contract is in accord, then there is no
25 problem. It is moot. I said but knowing my
2515
1 D. King-Cross
2 French brothers, I said what you do is be
3 prepared to make a bid just in the accord that it
4 isn't okay and that's what I did.
5 Q. Ou insisted that the purse bid go
6 forward, didn't you?
7 A. No, I didn't even make a decision one
8 way or the other whether the purse bid goes
9 forward. All I want to do is cover myself to
10 make sure whatever it is. I had no authority in
11 there. That is all Arnold Joseph's making and
12 doing, not mine.
13 Q. You've gotten purse bids put off all
14 the time, hadn't you, Mr. King?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 141.
17 A. Okay, what do you want to know about
18 141?
19 Q. First of all, did you send a copy of
20 it to Mr. Joseph?
21 A. It is none of his business. It is
22 absolutely none of his business.
23 Q. So did you tell Mr. Cozen when you
24 signed the agreement with him that you wanted the
25 purse bid canceled but you were going to tell him
2516
1 D. King-Cross
2 to go forward with it?
3 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection because that
4 is not even what the letter says.
5 A. That is not what the letter -- not
6 what I am saying.
7 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I guess I
8 will sustain the objection. Obviously the
9 letter says that it it's being sent because
10 DKP has been unable to reach an agreement
11 with the French promoter. That may be or it
12 may not be, but that is what it says.
13 A. That is what it says.
14 Q. Look, look, look --
15 THE CHAIRMAN: Before we spend too
16 much more time on this, for my part at
17 least, I understand Mr. King's version of
18 what happened here. He felt that he wasn't
19 protected and he put in what he viewed as a
20 contingent bid at the last minute, and you
21 have got a right to suggest to us that the
22 facts are other than that, but I think I
23 understand what his story is.
24 MR. OLIN: All right.
25 Q. And this is completely different than
2517
1 D. King-Cross
2 the story you told at your deposition, isn't it?
3 A. No.
4 Q. It is completely different from the
5 story that Ms. Jamison said when she said she
6 didn't know why the purse bid went forward?
7 MR. BURSTEIN: I object to that.
8 A. It is not -- it doesn't vary at all.
9 Ms. Jamison may or may not know why whatever this
10 thing is, but in her category in what her good
11 offices is, she does what I told her to do, and
12 thank God that she did because if she didn't
13 thinking that the bid wasn't going to be
14 canceled, according to Mr. Cozen's naivete, you
15 know, in dealing with a guy like his lawyer, Mr.
16 Arnold Joseph, that -- I had no reason to trust
17 anything that Joseph would do. I do trust what
18 Mr. Cozen, but Mr. Cozen don't know the lay of
19 the land.
20 He is representing like a lawyer would
21 represent and he is doing and representing,
22 making representations that he would be able to
23 live with. Other guys that don't -- this
24 contract means nothing to Mr. Joseph. His word
25 means nothing to Mr. Joseph. Mr. Cozen on the
2518
1 D. King-Cross
2 other hand is relying on what the status would be
3 apropos what the scheme of a lawyer should be.
4 Q. Did you ever tell Mr. Cozen or Mr.
5 Joseph that you had sent this letter asking for
6 the purse bid?
7 A. No. That is not asking for a purse
8 bid. That is making a bid. Don't try to put
9 them together. It is not asking, a purse bid is
10 highly confidential because, and the last person
11 on earth I would tell what I was bidding would be
12 Arnold Joseph because he'd go tell the enemy what
13 the bid is to get more than me.
14 You don't tell your bid. This is what
15 you understand that a bid is highly significant,
16 very important, and that you do it with the
17 closest confidants that you can do it with if you
18 ain't there to do it yourself.
19 Q. Mr. King, please when I ask you a
20 question, answer the question I ask you.
21 A. Yes, I will, Mr. Olin.
22 Q. I didn't ask you whether you told Mr.
23 Joseph.
24 A. You did ask me that.
25 Q. How much money you bid.
2519
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. No, you said did you tell him, did you
3 send the bid.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: One at a time.
5 A. Read the record back.
6 THE CHAIRMAN: I think in fairness,
7 Mr. Olin, you did ask whether you shared
8 with him, something about --
9 THE WITNESS: Yes, yes.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: -- asking for a purse
11 bid and this letter, as Mr. King rightly
12 points out, isn't asking for a purse bid but
13 is a purse bid.
14 Q. Did you ever tell Mr. Joseph or Mr.
15 Cozen about the purse bid?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Or your role in it?
18 A. I have no role in it.
19 Q. Didn't you -- did you ever tell them
20 that the reason that the purse bid happened was
21 because you couldn't reach a deal with Mr.
22 Acaries?
23 A. The reason that the purse bid --
24 Q. Excuse me.
25 A. No.
2520
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You never told him anything?
3 A. I never told him that.
4 Q. In fact, you came into this courtroom
5 at the beginning of this trial and took the
6 position that you didn't know why the purse bid
7 happened, didn't you?
8 A. No, I always said I knew why are the
9 purse bid happened. I've been -- I stand
10 steadfast that the purse bid happened because of
11 this interference by Mr. Joseph. No other way. I
12 would have worked out a deal with Acaries as I
13 had done.
14 Q. In fact --
15 A. The purse bid happened because Mr.
16 Joseph called for it.
17 Q. In fact --
18 A. Beginning and end.
19 Q. In fact, Mr. King, what really
20 happened is that you forgot or didn't know that
21 your company had produced Exhibit 141 for us,
22 isn't that right?
23 A. No, nothing about exhibits and it's
24 absolutely not right. Arnold Joseph called for
25 that purse bid when he had no business doing it.
2521
1 D. King-Cross
2 That's the case.
3 Q. So when Mr. Burstein answered Mr.
4 Carter's question at the beginning of trial that
5 you didn't know why the purse bid happened and
6 you knew better, did you take him out in the hall
7 and tell him that was a mistake?
8 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
9 A. Oh, what -- I'm not going to take him
10 out anywhere. What --
11 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
12 MR. BURSTEIN: The objection was
13 sustained.
14 Q. Did you make any attempt to correct
15 Ms. Jamison's testimony that she didn't know?
16 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
17 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained. I think
18 we're just getting into argument now. You
19 are allowed to cross-examine, but I think
20 you have gotten be beyond that.
21 Q. Did you write a letter to the
22 organization saying we don't need a purse bid, I
23 have a deal, cancel the purse bid and I'll work
24 it out with Mr. Hakkar? Did you send a letter?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: It's a yes or no
2522
1 D. King-Cross
2 question.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When?
5 A. She sent a letter and said that we had
6 an agreement with Mr. Acaries on this same
7 particular fight. It was Betare or Hakkar. We
8 sent a letter saying we had worked out a deal.
9 Then we sent a contract to Mr. Acaries. Mr.
10 Acaries never sent a contract back. We got
11 worried, we asked Mr. Sulaiman to intervene, and
12 intervention we found out that Betare had come to
13 the United States and tried to get me to --
14 MR. BURSTEIN: With all fairness, I
15 don't think he is answering the question and
16 to move this along --
17 MR. OLIN: He sure isn't.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: If you want him to
19 continue.
20 MR. OLIN: No, I don't want him to. I
21 want him to answer my question.
22 MR. BURSTEIN: He isn't. The question
23 is did you send a letter after the October 4
24 letter agreement to the WBC saying --
25 A. No, no.
2523
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So you didn't send them a letter
3 saying that you now had a deal with Hopkins?
4 A. No.
5 Q. You didn't send a letter saying that
6 you already had a contract with Hakkar. You
7 didn't send a letter saying if there is going to
8 be one, please put it off for a little while.
9 And you didn't tell Mr. Joseph or Mr. Cozen any
10 of this, is that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And you didn't tell Mr. Cozen or Mr.
13 Joseph any of this until we got this document in
14 this litigation?
15 A. I never told him. No document had
16 anything to do with it.
17 Q. So at the same day that you were
18 signing an agreement asking them to cancel the
19 purse bid, you were planning to go to the purse
20 bid?
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection.
22 A. No.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: He didn't even go to
24 the purse bid.
25 Q. You were planning to send a bid for
2524
1 D. King-Cross
2 the purse bid?
3 A. No. If you want me to tell you, I
4 will say it again. Maybe you didn't understand
5 me the --
6 Q. No, I understood you perfectly.
7 A. All right, then if you understand me,
8 you know.
9 Q. The answer to my question is you
10 disagree with me?
11 A. I absolutely disagree with you.
12 Q. Now, are you aware that there is a
13 duty of good faith in the performance of
14 contracts, Mr. King?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Are you aware that you had a duty of
17 good faith to allow Mr. Cozen and Mr. Joseph to
18 do their job pursuant to that October 4 agreement
19 without undercutting them?
20 A. I didn't undercut them, sir, but I do
21 like what your question is because if you flip
22 that question over there to Mr. Joseph then we
23 will be on good ground, solid ground.
24 Q. Did you call Mr. Acaries up and tell
25 him you already had a contract with him and that
2525
1 D. King-Cross
2 he was bound to you for $275,000?
3 A. I had Ms. Jamison call Mr. Acaries to
4 see was he going to stand by that agreement
5 because that agreement was early on and was
6 contingent upon Mr. Hopkins agreeing and saying
7 he was going to do it and getting a television
8 date done and he did not go into the deal with
9 Showtime and that's what put the deal in
10 disarray.
11 Q. You had the right to postpone this
12 bout for 120 days if it couldn't go forward on
13 August 17th for any reason that was not caused by
14 you, didn't you?
15 A. I don't know anything about that.
16 Q. Take a look.
17 A. Well, I do know --
18 Q. Take a look at Exhibit EX.
19 A. Look at Exhibit ES. Let me respond
20 after I read Exhibit EX.
21 Q. It's Exhibit EX. The one that was
22 passed out earlier today.
23 A. Oh, you mean with Acaries?
24 Q. Yes.
25 A. Yeah.
2526
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. There is a force majeure clause in
3 this contract, isn't there?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. And it says if the bout can't happen
6 on August 17, it lists a bunch of things or any
7 other cause beyond the direct and immediate
8 control of DKP, that you have 120 days.
9 A. That is what it says.
10 Q. So you had in fact, that is the
11 position Ms. Jamison took, you could have put
12 this bout off 120 days from August 17 and this
13 was a binding contract, wasn't it?
14 A. Except that Mr. Joseph had called for
15 a purse bid and if you recall in some of the
16 documents that you have put before me today that
17 we had a threatening letter in which you used on
18 the other side of the coin that time by Mr.
19 Sulaiman saying that it was going to be no more
20 postponements and that this deal had to be done.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. So it was not in Mr. Acaries' hand,
23 whether he had this contract or not, because when
24 you go to a purse bid, it extricates the fight
25 out of the contract. It would be counted as a
2527
1 D. King-Cross
2 bout but the terms and conditions of that
3 contract is then governed by the World Boxing
4 Council.
5 Q. Mr. King, would you agree with me that
6 you had the right to enforce this contract
7 against Mr. Acaries?
8 A. No.
9 Q. No?
10 A. No.
11 Q. It is not enforceable by you?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Was it your fault that the contract
14 got extended, that the fight didn't happen on
15 August 17? Was it your fault?
16 A. No. What you said to me was that you
17 wanted to -- that you were dealing in the good
18 faith of contracts and things of that sort. When
19 I made the deal with Mr. Acaries it was in the
20 good faith that this deal would take place in
21 August on Showtime. That is the proposition in
22 which I -- he entered into the deal with me.
23 Now for me to come back and don't have
24 Showtime and don't do that, I would be entering
25 into the deal under false pretense. I could not
2528
1 D. King-Cross
2 challenge him to a contract where I had prior
3 represented in good faith and in the spirit of
4 the contract law that we are entering into this
5 agreement because we got a chance to go on
6 Showtime in August and we got a three-fight deal
7 here, so I've got your fight here as the first
8 fight.
9 Now he enters and signs this
10 agreement, then in August it goes away because of
11 Arnold and Bernard, they just disregard contracts
12 as if they don't exist, so the man comes back and
13 says I don't believe them, when they say you keep
14 up with the contract, he said I don't believe
15 them, I just would rather go to the purse bid.
16 And so in doing that, I protect myself in case
17 Arnold isn't successful, which he wasn't, in
18 canceling the purse bid, at least I covered
19 myself for Bernard and myself so he didn't have
20 to give up the belt or go to France.
21 Q. Mr. King, I am asking you a real
22 simple question.
23 A. I am giving you a simple answer. It is
24 not a difficult answer.
25 Q. Well, it is difficult. Did the August
2529
1 D. King-Cross
2 17 fight fail to occur because of any reason that
3 was directly or immediately controllable by you?
4 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. That really
5 calls for a legal conclusion as to what
6 would be a cause under a force majeure
7 contract.
8 THE CHAIRMAN: I'm going to sustain
9 that and also because I think Mr. King has
10 given his explanation, at least to the
11 extent that I understand it. It may or may
12 not accord with all the facts but I
13 understand what his response to you is.
14 Q. Did it occur to you, Mr. King, that if
15 you, in conjunction with Mr. Joseph's letter to
16 the sanctioning organization saying we have
17 reached a deal and you don't need a purse bid, in
18 conjunction with the October 4 letter where you
19 reached a deal that could have been sent to the
20 sanctioning organization, if you had taken the
21 trouble to send Exhibit EX to the sanctioning
22 organization over that weekend, because only you
23 had this agreement, that they would have seen
24 that there was a deal for the fight and they
25 would have canceled the purse bid?
2530
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. What you are asking me is to deal with
3 a guy that already I know is stabbing me in the
4 back and he is breaking up the deals, why this
5 man shouldn't be making $15 million off the Tito
6 fight, he don't get it, and you are asking me to
7 go to him et tu, Brute. You know, you want me to
8 go and -- work with Arnold who really wouldn't
9 work with me and I bent over backwards to work
10 with Arnold. He would --
11 Q. Can I get an answer to my question?
12 THE CHAIRMAN: Let's go back to the
13 question and ask it again.
14 Q. Mr. King, if you had over that weekend
15 instead of written a letter saying we don't have
16 an agreement with Mr. Hakkar, here's my bid, if
17 you had written the WBC and your friend, Mr.
18 Sulaiman, a letter in which you said we have Mr.
19 Joseph's letter canceling the purse bid because I
20 have a deal with Mr. Hopkins. Here is the copy of
21 the contract with Mr. Hopkins from October 4,
22 here is a copy of my contract with Mr. Hakkar
23 from July of this year, cancel the purse bid.
24 Are you telling me that they wouldn't have
25 canceled that purse bid?
2531
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection to the
3 question. How is he going to know what they
4 are going to do?
5 THE CHAIRMAN: Well, I guess you can
6 ask it another way. You can say what do you
7 think would have happened if you had done
8 that.
9 A. First of all I didn't write any
10 letter. You said --
11 Q. I am saying if you had.
12 A. No, but you said if you had did this
13 letter instead of the letter that went along. I
14 didn't write any letter.
15 Q. If you had written them a letter
16 saying I have a deal with Mr. Hakkar, here is the
17 contract. I have a deal with Mr. Joseph and Mr.
18 Hopkins, here is the contract. They had already
19 gotten Mr. Joseph's letter saying we have a deal.
20 They would have canceled that purse bid
21 immediately, wouldn't they?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Okay. You are sticking to that,
24 right?
25 A. Yes, I am sticking to -- I know where
2532
1 D. King-Cross
2 it all came from, so whatever you say, Arnold
3 Joseph is the cause of this purse bid.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. You can talk so many times and get
6 better.
7 Q. There was a lot of talk early in this
8 case about handshake deals, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Handshake deals are only as good as
11 the handshake is worth, aren't they?
12 A. True.
13 Q. And in fact, at one point you said you
14 had a handshake deal that Mr. De La Hoya was
15 going to fight Mr. Hopkins, right?
16 A. We had an agreement to discuss a deal.
17 You know, in fact, a handshake deal is a deal
18 where you agree with the parties that do it and I
19 stick -- I stand by that.
20 Q. You said that you had a handshake deal
21 for Mr. De La Hoya?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. That didn't happen, did it?
24 A. No.
25 Q. You said that you had had a handshake
2533
1 D. King-Cross
2 deal with Mr. Goosen for Mr. Toney, didn't you?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And that didn't happen?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And the reason that didn't happen was
7 if you look at Exhibit 136, Mr. Lomax's letter,
8 at the end of the contract of January 12, 2004,
9 if you look at the last page, according to your
10 general counsel, that deal didn't happen because
11 Mr. Toney's promoter reneged on his agreement to
12 fight Mr. Hopkins, isn't that what your lawyer
13 wrote?
14 A. Now what is your question? What are
15 you saying?
16 Q. Isn't the reason that the Toney bout
17 didn't occur because Mr. Toney's promoter, Dan
18 Goosen, reneged on his agreement, which I assume
19 was a handshake agreement, to fight Mr. Hopkins?
20 A. Let's say somewhat. Let's say
21 somewhat. And if you want the explanation, I
22 will give it to you. If you don't --
23 Q. No.
24 A. Yes and no. He is not altogether
25 guilty. Goosen is not altogether guilty.
2534
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. There is nothing else mentioned in Mr.
3 Lomax's letter?
4 A. Well, That's what Mr. Lomax is saying.
5 I can't argue about that but I happen to be
6 involved and I know exactly what happened. If you
7 want to hear it, I will tell you. If you don't,
8 I will keep my mouth shut.
9 Q. You know, Mr. King, we've already
10 heard it about three times from you.
11 A. You keep asking me about it.
12 Q. The reality is that you didn't ever
13 until I just pointed this out to you do anything
14 except blame Mr. Hopkins for that fight, did you?
15 A. Mr. Hopkins is not entirely to blame.
16 Mr. Hopkins has rejected everything you have
17 done. He is an ingrate.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. He don't appreciate nothing you do,
20 and I have tried desperately to encourage his
21 career to make him more money because I want to
22 make some money and I have been denied that and
23 his breach has caused me an estimable millions of
24 dollars when he breached a contract with me by
25 not fighting a contract that he had negotiated
2535
1 D. King-Cross
2 and signed.
3 Q. All right, now you got a copy of this
4 letter that Mr. Lomax sent, didn't you?
5 A. I may, help me on that, I don't know
6 whether I did see it or didn't see it, but I
7 respect Mr. Lomax for what he did as a matter of
8 fact of the evidence that he knew, but I also
9 respect Dan Goosen, who was on the phone with
10 Arnold Joseph, myself, Ross Greenburg, Kerry
11 Davis, Mark Chaffet, and he knew exactly the lay
12 of the land and then Goosen reduced what he
13 thought his desire would be in order to make this
14 fight come off.
15 Q. Is there a --
16 A. They refused and that is how the fight
17 broke up, so he didn't wait because he didn't
18 trust him anymore. He never trusted him because
19 they just had a big loggerhead with a big lawsuit
20 and he had a very abrasive relationship, so now
21 he says I am going to protect myself. I am going
22 to fight Holyfield. I didn't think it was right
23 but nevertheless he had every reason to do it
24 because we couldn't deliver Bernard Hopkins.
25 Q. Did you have a handshake agreement
2536
1 D. King-Cross
2 with Mr. Goosen on which Mr. Goosen reneged?
3 A. Yes and no. Yes and no. He did not
4 have a signed agreement but he certainly -- he
5 had an agreement that was going to and he tried.
6 He tried. He got on the phone, he changed his
7 whole position. He made it where it was
8 palatable that we could do the deal. And I was
9 so happy to see that.
10 I then turned to Arnold, Arnold said I
11 don't think -- Arnold even felt moved. He said I
12 will go back. I may even get him for 3.8. I
13 said go get him, Arnold, go get him, if you can
14 do that, I'll take the risk for the rest of it.
15 And he couldn't do that.
16 That is when Goosen in the interim,
17 Goosen don't know what we're doing, Arnold and I
18 are talking about, in the interim while he is
19 waiting, he said I am going to do something
20 different, and that is what we did and I have
21 nothing to come back with him on.
22 Q. Can you point me to a single piece of
23 paper where what Mr. Lomax says is contradicted
24 by anything on your side of the table?
25 A. No. You are confusing me because you
2537
1 D. King-Cross
2 are saying handshake deal. Now you are talking
3 about faith and integrity or if you are talking
4 about what is on the dotted line. So you can't
5 mix them together. You got to take either the
6 paper which we can give you a document for, but
7 if you are going to deal with the intangibles and
8 of faith and integrity and the sanctity of a
9 contract, that comes within and without on the
10 letterhead, so you've got to tell me what you
11 want to do.
12 Now if you're dealing with a
13 handshake, I don't particularly like Goosen that
14 much that I'm going to go against my fighter for
15 Goosen, I understand what's happening there, but
16 Goosen didn't act altogether decadently. You
17 know what I mean, he tried to make the deal and
18 we had everybody on the phone. The deal could
19 have been done --
20 Q. Is there --
21 A. -- but for Bernard Hopkins.
22 Q. Is there a letter anywhere in the file
23 that says this deal didn't happen because of
24 Bernard Hopkins?
25 A. I don't know whether there is a letter
2538
1 D. King-Cross
2 in the file but I know it didn't happen because
3 of Bernard Hopkins.
4 Q. Is there a letter anywhere, Mr. King?
5 A. No, not that -- I don't know whether
6 there is --
7 THE CHAIRMAN: I think he answered
8 that. He doesn't know.
9 Q. So the only thing that was written at
10 the time it was because Mr. Goosen reneged?
11 MR. BURSTEIN: I object, because there
12 is a memo from Mark Chaffet in the file
13 also.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: Whatever is in the file
15 is in the file and we'll get a chance to
16 argue --
17 A. I agree with Mr. Carter. In fact, you
18 can get a series of witnesses, every one of them
19 will verify what I am saying.
20 Q. Now I want to talk about Mr. Joseph a
21 little bit. You admitted yesterday that there
22 were occasions when you -- I think you used the
23 word "berated" Mr. Joseph in front of his client?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You didn't like what Mr. Joseph was
2539
1 D. King-Cross
2 doing?
3 A. No, on the contrary. I liked what he
4 was representative of doing, but what he was
5 doing.
6 Q. That's what I asked you.
7 A. No, no, I didn't like what he was
8 doing because he wasn't fair. No, no, I didn't
9 like what Mr. Joseph was doing.
10 Q. And one of the occasions in which you
11 berated him, look at Exhibit 109. I think we
12 went over this yesterday. This is the draft of
13 the Toney bout agreement. You got the Toney bout
14 agreement, paragraph 16?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. One of the occasions on which you
17 berated Arnold Joseph in front of his client, Mr.
18 Hopkins, was when Mr. Joseph had the audacity to
19 point out to Mr. Hopkins that you were changing
20 the promotional agreement in this document
21 instead of just providing for a fight against Mr.
22 Toney, isn't that right?
23 A. No.
24 Q. No?
25 A. No.
thehype
2540
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Okay. Okay. All right, just
3 checking.
4 A. No.
5 Q. That wasn't the cause of you slamming
6 your hand down on the table and yelling at Mr.
7 Joseph --
8 A. No.
9 Q. -- was because he pointed out what
10 was going on in this agreement to his client?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. Did you tell Mr. Hopkins man to
13 man, by the way, Bernard, if we are going to sign
14 this Toney bout agreement, I want my extra year
15 on the promotional agreement? Did you tell him
16 that or did you just put it in the agreement or
17 let your lawyers do it?
18 A. No, I didn't say that.
19 Q. Okay, so it was just sitting here in
20 the document waiting for him to sign it, right?
21 A. No. No, no, no.
22 Q. Who put that in there?
23 A. I don't know who put it in there but
24 there is nothing wrong with it even being in
25 there. Wait. You told me that we are dealing
2541
1 D. King-Cross
2 with the good faith and integrity of working
3 together. In working together works, that is my
4 motto. So now it wouldn't be absolutely nothing
5 wrong with that and I am getting ready to give
6 this man, first of all I offered him $3 million
7 and a car. He rejected that offer. That was the
8 only offer I gave him.
9 Then he wanted me to try to hustle
10 more money. I said I would do that, I didn't
11 think it was feasible but if you want this deal
12 to be closed, let us move forward, beat this man,
13 you redefine yourself, let's go fight Tito, let's
14 make a lot of money.
15 Q. Well --
16 A. He still insisted on trying to get
17 more money. Well, see what you can do. That's
18 why I didn't sign that agreement. See what you
19 can do and when you get what you do, come back.
20 So I went to see what I can do. Now in
21 the process of seeing what I could do, I
22 incorporated Arnold Joseph along with everybody
23 at HBO so they would make certain what I was
24 saying was true, not coming from me, from
25 everybody concerned.
2542
1 D. King-Cross
2 Goosen and his fighter, HBO and the
3 television broadcaster, Arnold Joseph and Bernard
4 Hopkins and myself and with everybody in the same
5 phone where it could have been closed, the only
6 recalcitrant obstinate article was Arnold Joseph
7 and Bernard Hopkins. You can talk all the way
8 around, that is the fact of life. It hurt me
9 deeply because I'm losing money. I'm losing
10 money. Every time this man say no, I lose money.
11 And then he killed me when he didn't take the
12 fight and honor his contract with Tito, I lost
13 millions.
14 Q. This is the draft of the agreement?
15 A. I don't know whether it is the draft
16 or what. What it is.
17 Q. It looks like a red-line draft.
18 A. Not to me. It ain't got no red lines
19 on it.
20 Q. Look at page 3. It looks like a
21 draft, that's got some new language, got some
22 underlines in it, it has some strike-throughs in
23 it.
24 A. In page 3 it's got some underlines at
25 the --
2543
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Okay, and on the draft of the
3 agreement it says in subparagraph little 2,
4 fighter shall receive not less than 4 million?
5 A. Where is that?
6 MR. OLIN: You point it out to him,
7 Joe.
8 Q. Paragraph 2nd, last line.
9 A. Um-hum.
10 Q. You never discussed with Mr. Hopkins
11 that if he had signed this, he would have
12 eliminated the condition that you have to get a
13 TV deal for getting the extra year of a
14 promotional agreement? Isn't that right? Didn't
15 you just tell me that?
16 A. No, I didn't tell you that.
17 Q. You never discussed that with Mr.
18 Hopkins, did you?
19 A. Wait a minute. Clarify for me what
20 you are talking about now. We're talking about a
21 TV deal?
22 Q. You never discussed the second
23 sentence of paragraph 16 with Mr. Hopkins? You
24 just told me that ten minutes ago.
25 A. No, I did not tell you that.
2544
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Well, let me ask you again and we will
3 see.
4 MR. BURSTEIN: He is looking at
5 something different.
6 THE WITNESS: This is paragraph 16?
7 MR. BURSTEIN: No.
8 THE WITNESS: Maybe I'm all confused.
9 MR. OLIN: I doubt that, Mr. King.
10 THE CHAIRMAN: We don't need that.
11 Q. You never discussed that with him, did
12 you?
13 A. Did I ever discuss it with Mr.
14 Hopkins?
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. At the time of this agreement?
18 A. I don't know about the time of this
19 agreement, but this has been discussed with Mr.
20 Hopkins all along.
21 Q. Well, you --
22 A. In fact, Arnold wrote a pencil
23 notation when we were trying to do this to extend
24 it and he put it -- he tied it to a television
25 deal.
2545
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Right.
3 A. This has been a discussion for the
4 last year we have been trying to get an extension
5 on the agreement.
6 Q. Okay. We know which agreement you're
7 talking about -- you're talking about the
8 original amendment to the promotional agreement?
9 A. All I know is I wanted more time
10 because I wanted to promote a great fighter.
11 However the great fighter came in and he never
12 fought great fights, he only fought mandatories
13 that were dictated by others. We could not make
14 no money. He breached his contract, we lost
15 millions of dollars in the process and it became
16 so frustrating and exasperating that I was
17 willing to let him go and he rekindled my spirit
18 to fight back and I'm fighting back for my rights
19 now.
20 Q. We know that what you're talking about
21 is Exhibit 22, the amendment to promotional
22 agreement, and I'm not going to go back to it
23 again.
24 Turn to paragraph -- Exhibit 97. This
25 is the Hakkar bout agreement. Do you see that?
2546
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Are you aware, Mr. King, are you aware
4 that the Muhammed Ali Act doesn't allow a
5 mandatory bout to have options for future fights
6 without an agreement?
7 MR. BURSTEIN: I'm objecting to this
8 among a whole other reason. A, it is the
9 subject of a separate lawsuit, and B, it is
10 explicitly excluded from this case, and C,
11 it calls for a legal --
12 MR. OLIN: I didn't ask him -- I asked
13 him if that was -- let me rephrase it.
14 Q. Is it your understanding, Mr. King,
15 that the Muhammed Ali Act bars a promoter from
16 getting options for future fights in a bout
17 agreement for a mandatory bout?
18 MR. BURSTEIN: I object to that. It is
19 a subject of an entirely different lawsuit
20 and what possible relevance could that have
21 here? Either it does violate the Ali Act or
22 it doesn't violate the Ali Act.
23 THE CHAIRMAN: My understanding is
24 that there is other litigation about that
25 issue and that it has been expressly
2547
1 D. King-Cross
2 excluded from this proceeding --
3 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: So I'm going to sustain
5 the objection.
6 Q. Mr. King, you had another instance
7 where you berated Mr. Joseph over this options
8 paragraph in this agreement, didn't you?
9 A. No.
10 Q. No. What was the reason for the big
11 fight on December 13th in your hotel room? Wasn't
12 it -- didn't you say --
13 A. You can't answer it for me now. You
14 can ask me but you can't answer for me.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: If he gives an answer
16 you don't like, you can say no, it was.
17 Q. Didn't you say that we had a big fight
18 because of the options paragraph and Mr. Joseph
19 telling Mr. Hopkins you shouldn't sign that with
20 that in there?
21 A. No.
22 Q. No. What was the big fight about?
23 A. The big fight was about Mr. Hopkins
24 came in, and he came in the spirit of working
25 together and he said, listen, he said, I didn't,
2548
1 D. King-Cross
2 I didn't make this offer. Mr. Hopkins said I
3 will fight this guy for $700,000. I want you to
4 advance me $300,000 to put up a bond for Lou
5 DiBella.
6 When Mr. Hopkins was saying this,
7 Arnold was going through all kind of contortions,
8 but this is his client that is making this
9 proffer. I said okay, I would do that but it has
10 got to be in Philadelphia. He said no matter
11 what we do, we've got to put this fight in
12 Philadelphia because it is either a tie-breaker
13 or a tie. I don't know which one it was but
14 either a tie for the 13th or 14th winning of the
15 fight.
16 So he sit there and he say I just want
17 to do this for my legacy. I want to have
18 history. And he was giving me this spiel and I
19 fed into it, I said okay, we will do that. I
20 said, Dana, write up the contract. When Dana was
21 filling in the blanks, Mr. Joseph, along with a
22 litany of all these same type of moves starts
23 whispering into the man's ear after the man set
24 the tone and put down what it is, and Bernard
25 says, I want to do the deal. Now he's arguing
2549
1 D. King-Cross
2 with him.
3 I say this is enough. Take the deal
4 off the table, just get on out of here. And I say
5 this is what is wrong with you, Arnold, you don't
6 know when to represent your client and to
7 represent him in a fair square way. All you want
8 to do is destroy the deal and I used a few
9 expletives which I apologize for because the man
10 is asinine.
11 He doesn't use his good stead and
12 education for the benefit of his client. He uses
13 it for his own selfish motive and aggrandizement
14 all for himself. So that is what I said. I was
15 through, I didn't even care what happened. Then
16 when he went out, me and Bernard being street
17 people, I said hey, man, I don't want to, let's
18 get this guy and go out and get him because
19 Bernard stayed in the room, he was out at the
20 elevator.
21 So me and Bernard went out to the
22 elevator. I apologized to Arnold and he came
23 back into the room. Bernard, signed the deal
24 just as he dictated it, you know what I mean, and
25 in turn with reciprocity, I gave him the 305,000
2550
1 D. King-Cross
2 for the burn on the thing, but this was from a
3 litany of exasperated aggravations nitpicking
4 under the auspices I am doing better for you than
5 you can do for yourself.
6 That's the way he comes in, like he's
7 representing Bernard. Bernard will find that out
8 for himself. That has to be done. I can say in
9 my opinion, it's only in my opinion, it is the
10 worst thing that ever happened to him because he
11 don't represent truth, he don't represent the
12 law, he don't represent fair play. He represents
13 selfish invested interests and he is a liar. He
14 don't tell the truth.
15 Q. Are you done, Mr. King?
16 A. Yes. You asked me and I told you.
17 That is my opinion.
18 Q. Was there a discussion about this
19 options clause?
20 A. No discussion about no option clause.
21 Q. Nothing?
22 A. No discussion. The man come in and
23 dictated a contract to my vice president and me,
24 and while he was doing it, he didn't want it, he
25 was scared of Bernard. He didn't want to jump in
2551
1 D. King-Cross
2 there and tell Bernard while he was doing it,
3 he's got to wait 'til Bernard gets through. But
4 when he gets through he couldn't hold it.
5 You know Mantan Moreland could never
6 do as many contortions as this man was doing, you
7 know what I mean, and when he got through with
8 all this, he finally had to whisper in Bernard's
9 ear, Bernard say, I want to do the deal man, I
10 want to do the deal.
11 Then I just jumped up, he just lit my
12 fuse and I got tired of Bernard -- I mean of
13 Arnold and I hit him between the eyes. And then
14 when he left, and knowing Bernard, if I had been
15 wrong, Bernard would have beat him to the door,
16 but Bernard knew that he was wrong and then we
17 went, both of us went collectively together to
18 get him.
19 Q. Are you done?
20 A. I am done.
21 Q. You also said yesterday that you had a
22 problem with Roy Jones' attorneys, didn't you?
23 A. Who is Roy Jones?
24 Q. Who is Roy Jones?
25 A. What attorney about what?
2552
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Roy Jones' attorneys caused a problem
3 for you, yesterday you said in your testimony.
4 A. In regards to what?
5 Q. Well, page 89 of the transcript from
6 yesterday. It is a little rough. You said,
7 "Yes, Roy Jones was very, very difficult to deal
8 with. However you had to keep pushing out the
9 attorneys.
10 "Answer," and I can't really read it,
11 "how great he was. You can try to get him to
12 listen."
13 You want to push out the attorneys?
14 A. No, it doesn't say that.
15 Q. No?
16 A. No, it doesn't say that. I'm going to
17 have to help you get some glasses.
18 Q. Let's talk about another -- your
19 company has three lawyers, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You had fine legal advice in your
22 office, don't you?
23 A. Well, thank you very much.
24 Q. You believe you have fine legal
25 advice?
2553
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you need your lawyers because you
4 don't know the niceties of law, do you?
5 A. No.
6 Q. And you rely on your lawyers to tell
7 you the niceties of the law?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. But you don't like your fighters to
10 have lawyers, do you?
11 A. No, no, no, I admire and respect the
12 fighters that have a lawyer. In fact I don't
13 want to do a deal because it is easier to deal
14 with a lawyer under normal circumstances than it
15 is with a fighter.
16 Q. Okay.
17 A. But the lawyer is -- at least a
18 lawyer, he can representative and he can fall on
19 a sword for his client but be fair and tell the
20 truth. Don't play the game, it is not in
21 litigation to save his life. You are in a
22 litigation, you are trying to guide the man as
23 you go down the line. But for a lawyer not to
24 fulfill his creed and uphold the law under the
25 oath that he takes, you know, then I think that
2554
1 D. King-Cross
2 is reprehensible. Then you are using the law to
3 abuse, not using law for the progress of society.
4 Q. You remember the litigation where you
5 were sued by Mr. Burstein on behalf of Julio
6 Caesar Chavez?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Mr. Chavez was claiming that you had
9 never let him meet with you with his own lawyer?
10 A. That is not true.
11 Q. Did he claim that he would never --
12 you would never --
13 MR. BURSTEIN: Isn't this hearsay?
14 A. That is not true.
15 THE CHAIRMAN: I am waiting for
16 somebody to either object or tell me why it
17 its relevant here. I'm not sure why --
18 MR. BURSTEIN: I object on relevance
19 grounds.
20 MR. OLIN: I'm not done.
21 Q. You accused yesterday Mr. Joseph of
22 earning unnecessary fees at Bernard Hopkins'
23 expense, right?
24 A. Did I do that?
25 Q. Yes. Transcript page 81, didn't you
2555
1 D. King-Cross
2 say that?
3 A. I don't think I did that. But let me
4 look at see.
5 What line is that on?
6 Q. Middle of the page, last sentence of a
7 long -- typically long answer. "There is only
8 Arnold trying to deal himself in at Bernard's
9 expense."
10 A. It didn't say no unnecessary fees. I
11 did say that. That he is at his expense because
12 he does things that is truly unbecoming of a
13 lawyer and unprofessional and his ethics code is
14 sub zero.
15 Q. So basically, Mr. King --
16 MR. BURSTEIN: I think the panel has
17 your view of Mr. Joseph.
18 Q. You didn't like Mr. Joseph because he
19 didn't agree with you, did you?
20 A. No. I don't want nobody to agree with
21 me. That's what makes a good situation. When you
22 disagree that stimulates thought. You know what
23 I mean. So it's not about agreeing, but being
24 fair.
25 Q. Let's talk about HBO. Now your
2556
1 D. King-Cross
2 position, and you have the testified about this,
3 is that HBO didn't want Bernard Hopkins, right?
4 A. That's what they told me.
5 Q. They didn't want him?
6 A. That's what they told me.
7 Q. But the reality is that you didn't
8 sign a contract with HBO because you were not
9 satisfied with the deal, right?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Look at page 208 of your deposition,
12 if you would, please.
13 A. I already know what it is. But
14 anyway, let him come on with it.
15 Q. Starting at page 207.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. The question is, "It says at the
18 bottom of the letter that you and Mr. Joseph
19 discussed the possibility of Mr. Hopkins entering
20 into a long-term deal with HBO. You indicated
21 that you were not satisfied with the terms of the
22 deal which HBO had offered to you and that you
23 would continue to negotiate with them." Is that
24 accurate as of that date?
25 A. Yes.
2557
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. The conversation with HBO, yes, that
3 is accurate, is that true?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. You also testified that it was
6 HBO that frustrated the deal, didn't you?
7 A. I have testified that HBO --
8 Q. Can you answer my question?
9 A. Did I say that? Just tell me where it
10 is and I can tell you why I did it. Why I said
11 it. But that sounds likes me. That sounds like
12 me.
13 Q. Page 274, the bottom of another long
14 answer. "HBO frustrated my opportunity to try to
15 do a multi-fight agreement with them." That is
16 what you said under oath at your deposition?
17 A. And that is true. I stand by that.
18 Q. Okay. Now yesterday you said that the
19 reason you didn't do an HBO deal wasn't HBO, it
20 was because Bernard insisted on having his
21 mandatories and you couldn't come up with a deal
22 for Roy Jones at 50-50. Isn't that what you said
23 yesterday?
24 A. Yesterday I said that. I said that we
25 couldn't do a deal with HBO because Bernard
2558
1 D. King-Cross
2 insisted on mandatories, and in effect --
3 MR. BURSTEIN: In fairness, you should
4 read what he said before the comment.
5 MR. OLIN: I object to you handing the
6 witness testimony.
7 You have redirect to do whatever you
8 would like.
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes, but this is
10 completeness.
11 THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Don't hand
12 him anything else.
13 MR. BURSTEIN: I apologize.
14 THE CHAIRMAN: You will have a chance
15 to go back on it when your time comes.
16 Q. Can I have an answer to my question?
17 A. What is your question?
18 Q. Yesterday you said that the reason
19 that you didn't do the deal with HBO was because
20 Mr. Hopkins wanted his mandatories and that
21 because Mr. Hopkins wouldn't agree to 60-40 with
22 Roy Jones. Isn't that what you said yesterday?
23 A. Yes, I said that and it is part of the
24 reason. I can't sign a contract with HBO without
25 Mr. Hopkins. That is number one. Number two, HBO
2559
1 D. King-Cross
2 was --
3 Q. Mr. King, you've answered my question.
4 A. Okay. Thank you.
5 Q. Now, those were two reasons that Mr.
6 Hopkins had some control over, weren't they? In
7 other words if the money was right, then Mr.
8 Hopkins would have said, I can deal with the
9 mandatories or I can deal with 60-40 on Roy
10 Jones. You could have signed a contract, right?
11 A. I could sign it whenever Mr. Hopkins
12 tells me that I can sign it because in fact he
13 has to sign it himself to be a part of it, so the
14 deal could have been done if the money is right
15 and then he's in agreement and the money was
16 reasonable for Mr. Jones, I agreed with that and
17 I said let's go fight Roy Jones.
18 Q. Where is the record of a meeting or a
19 letter where you sat down with Bernard or Arnold
20 and said, look, I have got all this money from
21 HBO on the table and the only problem is the
22 mandatories and the 60-40, and if we can work
23 that out, Bernard, then we can have this HBO
24 deal. Where is the record of that ever
25 happening?
2560
1 D. King-Cross
2 A. You may not have a record but we
3 certainly discussed it several times. You may
4 not -- in fact you've asked it in this testimony
5 in this case and he said no, he wouldn't fight.
6 Q. Now, amazingly, amazingly, as soon as
7 your contract with Mr. Hopkins was up, within a
8 month Mr. Hopkins had a deal with HBO, didn't he?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: No, he didn't.
10 A. No.
11 Q. He had a deal to fight Robert Allen
12 and Oscar De La Hoya on HBO fights. Didn't he?
13 MR. BURSTEIN: On HBO, to fight on HBO
14 is different than to say he had a deal with
15 HBO.
16 A. He had a deal, but this shows you the
17 --
18 Q. You have answered my question, Mr.
19 King.
20 A. This shows you the ungratefulness of
21 this man.
22 MR. OLIN: Mr. Carter?
23 A. All right. I ain't got no more to say
24 about it, but this is good, that is a good
25 example of what you were saying. It's a very
2561
1 D. King-Cross
2 good example.
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Maybe we've reached a
4 point where we ought to take a mid-afternoon
5 break here.
6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 3:47.
7 Off the record.
8 (Recess taken).
9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is now
10 3:59. On the record.
11 MR. OLIN: Mr. King and Mr. Carter, we
12 desperately want to finish today, and to the
13 extent possible could you please just answer
14 my question, and if Mr. Burstein wants to
15 ask you to explain it later, you can, Mr.
16 King.
17 MR. BURSTEIN: You will indulge me if
18 I tell the witness sometimes just answer the
19 question?
20 MR. OLIN: I will absolutely indulge
21 you.
22 MR. BURSTEIN: Okay.
23 BY MR. OLIN:
24 Q. Now, Mr. King, we stopped --
25 A. You all make me feel pretty bad. I am
2562
1 D. King-Cross
2 only trying to defend myself.
3 Q. We stopped -- you have a lawyer whose
4 job that is, and he is doing a very nice job.
5 We stopped with a discussion about Mr.
6 Hopkins working out a deal to be broadcast on HBO
7 within a month after your contract expired, and I
8 asked you if in fact that isn't what happened.
9 Let me see if I can refresh your
10 recollection. Page 190 of your deposition,
11 starting at line 14.
12 Are you with me, Mr. King?
13 Read to the next page here so we can
14 get the answer.
15 A. Page 190?
16 Q. Starting at line 14.
17 "Do you know that HBO would not
18 discuss with Mr. Joseph the negotiations they
19 were having with you about the multi-fight
20 agreement?
21 "Answer: HBO was hypocrites. They are
22 hypocrites.
23 "Mr. Burstein: Answer the question.
24 THE WITNESS: I don't know nothing
25 about that.
2563
1 D. King-Cross
2 "Question: Why are they hypocrites?
3 "Answer: Because they say one thing
4 and they throw a rock and hide their hand.
5 In other words, they say one thing and mean
6 another thing to him so I just call their
7 hand on it. What it is, you know, anyone in
8 particular over there or is it the whole
9 bunch is the question.
10 "The only thing they had over there is
11 they all said they didn't want Bernard
12 Hopkins and that I can say, look them all in
13 the eye, none of them wanted Bernard
14 Hopkins.
15 "I am talking about your description
16 of them as hypocrites. Are they all
17 hypocrites?
18 "Well, listen, they deal with Bernard
19 Hopkins because he is with Arum, but when he
20 is with me and he was a free spirit and an
21 independent force, that's why I worked so
22 hard to try to hold a guy like Bernard
23 Hopkins, because he would have been a great
24 asset because of his free spirit and the way
25 that he did it, but they said they didn't
2564
1 D. King-Cross
2 want to touch him with a ten-foot pole, but
3 as soon as he got with Bob Arum, now they
4 can have discussions, they can even have
5 lunch together."
6 Does that refresh your recollection
7 that right after he left you, all of a
8 sudden HBO was able to make a deal with Mr.
9 Hopkins?
10 A. Absolutely.
11 Q. Okay. And you blame that on HBO?
12 A. I blame that on HBO and Bernard
13 Hopkins because that same stand-up character that
14 I saw in Bernard Hopkins when I was fighting with
15 him, desperately falling on the sword for him,
16 seems to have vanished when he left me. And the
17 reason that I was having these problems with HBO
18 is because of my loyalty and dedication and
19 commitment to Bernard Hopkins.
20 So it was both of them. You know what
21 I mean, I understand he's got to make money but
22 he didn't stand up. The character that he had
23 that was most impressive to me, he lost that, you
24 know what I mean, in that type of situation, so I
25 was used. Okay, so I will accept that.
2565
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You also know that by February 6 or at
3 the beginning of February, Mr. Hopkins had
4 already made a deal to fight Robert Allen and
5 Oscar De La Hoya, hadn't he?
6 A. I don't know about what he was doing.
7 All I know is he was doing it while he had a
8 contract with me. I do know that. He had a
9 contract with me, even though he was gone, he had
10 a contract with me and he had breached my
11 contract with the Tito fight, and I had another
12 fight coming from him but I was willing at that
13 time before he --
14 MR. BURSTEIN: I think you have said
15 --
16 THE WITNESS: That is okay.
17 A. It is just so horrible. It hurts so
18 much.
19 Q. You knew that he made a deal with Bob
20 Arum at the beginning of February?
21 A. I don't know when he made a deal with
22 Bob Arum and could care less.
23 Q. Okay. Look at Exhibit 138 and see if
24 it refreshes your recollection.
25 You certainly read about it in the
2566
1 D. King-Cross
2 press, didn't you?
3 A. No.
4 Q. You didn't read it -- nobody told you
5 about it?
6 A. No.
7 Q. You didn't know -- did you even know
8 that he fought Oscar De La Hoya and Robert Allen?
9 A. I knew that he fought them.
10 Q. Okay. You didn't find out that -- do
11 you know if there was a press conference when the
12 signing happened?
13 A. No.
14 Q. You don't pay attention to anything
15 else?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Okay. Now, we talked earlier today
18 about HBO's first offer for the Daniels fight
19 being 2-1/2 -- $2 million and then ultimately
20 they paid $3-1/2 million, do you remember that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. When you were discussing the
23 Jones fight with Mr. Hopkins and you had Mr.
24 Greenburg on the phone and Mr. Greenburg said
25 there was $14 million available for the fight, is
2567
1 D. King-Cross
2 there any reason in the world why you wouldn't
3 have tried to get more money?
4 A. He was going to get more money if he
5 knew anything about promoting. This is the
6 minimum amount of money that we can
7 conservatively say that is guaranteed that we can
8 work from a guarantee to give 8 to one and 6 to
9 the other.
10 Q. That's not my question.
11 A. That could be more money, but not from
12 them.
13 Q. That is not my question. You
14 obviously got more money for them in Daniels. You
15 went from 2 million to 3-1/2, right?
16 A. Now you're complementing me?
17 Q. Yes, I am.
18 A. Thank you very much.
19 Q. When Ross says -- there's only $14
20 million for Jones, you would have gone back to
21 him and said we need more money, wouldn't you?
22 You would have tried to get more money out of
23 HBO?
24 A. I always have tried.
25 Q. Okay. And you don't know whether you
2568
1 D. King-Cross
2 could have or you couldn't have?
3 A. It would have been immaterial because,
4 had I did it, with Jones and Hopkins, it would
5 have all came into the pot so it would have been
6 more the merrier. The problem is getting the
7 fight on. We had to first get past first base.
8 Q. Okay. Tito Trinidad, you described
9 him three different times yesterday, twice as
10 your best asset and once as your biggest star.
11 Do you remember that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. I think you even called him your money
14 machine?
15 A. Could have been.
16 Q. Okay. You made a lot of money with
17 Tito Trinidad over the years --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- when you promoted him, right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And in fact, when you scheduled the
22 tournament, you expected Tito Trinidad to win
23 that tournament?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And when he fought Bernard Hopkins, in
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2 fact he was a three to one favorite to beat
3 Bernard, wasn't he?
4 A. I don't know what the odds was, but as
5 I said in my testimony, nobody thought Bernard
6 was going to win but Bernard and his trainer
7 Bowie Fisher who strategized the plan to beat
8 Tito.
9 Q. That includes you, you didn't think
10 Bernard could win either?
11 A. No, I did not think Bernard would win.
12 Q. So Bernard defeated your star?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And in fact you had already started to
15 plan or there had been at least press reports,
16 hadn't there, that after Trinidad beats Mr.
17 Hopkins, he is going to fight Roy Jones?
18 A. Yes, there were some rumors and talk
19 of that.
20 Q. Okay. You would have liked to see
21 that fight, wouldn't you?
22 A. I would have like to seen Bernard
23 fight Roy Jones, but with Trinidad it would have
24 happened. It would have happened. It would have
25 been history. Everybody would have loved it.
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2 With Bernard, he hit the lottery and didn't know
3 how to cash the ticket.
4 Q. Okay, you like that phrase, you've
5 used that before.
6 A. I like it, I like it because it is the
7 truth.
8 Q. Okay. But you had already -- there
9 had already been lots of discussion that after
10 Trinidad beats Bernard, we are going to have this
11 huge blockbuster of a fight, Roy Jones and
12 Trinidad, right?
13 A. We are understanding that we are
14 talking about both of them because no one could
15 underestimate Bernard Hopkins, and so even though
16 if Tito Trinidad had beat Bernard we also would
17 be talking about Bernard. If he should win we
18 had the same conversation for Roy. It wouldn't
19 have been as big a fight with Bernard and Roy as
20 it would have been with Tito and Roy but the fact
21 is it would have been the biggest fight on the
22 place other than the return match with Tito
23 Trinidad.
24 Q. Had you already had Tito's name
25 engraved on the middleweight champion trophy
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2 before the fight?
3 A. I didn't make the trophies.
4 Q. But somebody had -- you know that was
5 done?
6 A. That was HBO.
7 Q. They already had Tito's name on it?
8 A. I don't know about that. I will not
9 go that far to say that, but it didn't happen.
10 Q. All right. Now Tito lost his title to
11 Bernard, we all know that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. He was still a big draw as far as you
14 were concerned?
15 A. He is the biggest.
16 Q. And you wanted him to get a belt back?
17 A. Not necessarily a belt back. I wanted
18 Bernard to honor his contract.
19 Q. I'm not talking about Bernard, I'm
20 talking about Tito. You wanted Tito to be able
21 to get a belt back?
22 A. Bernard had them all.
23 Q. I know Bernard had them all.
24 A. That's why I wanted him to fight
25 Bernard again.
thehype
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2 Q. That's all I'm asking you. You wanted
3 Tito to have a chance to get his belts or a belt
4 back?
5 A. I wanted him to fight Bernard Hopkins
6 because that served both. If Bernard beat him
7 twice, then that's nothing more could say because
8 I told Tito when he signed to fight in the
9 tournament that Bernard if he should win would
10 give him a return match like everybody else does
11 on the big fights and he didn't. He breached
12 that agreement.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 43.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Any particular point?
15 Q. You recognize Exhibit 43 as a
16 step-aside agreement that you had with Michele
17 Acaries in February 2002 -- oh, I'm sorry --
18 signed by you, Mr. Acaries and by Mr. Sulaiman,
19 who was the --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- president of the WBC?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. You never told Mr. Hopkins
24 about this, did you?
25 A. It wasn't necessary to tell Mr.
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2 Hopkins.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is yes or
4 no.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Now there is a curious
7 paragraph in this step-aside that I would like
8 you to look at. The last paragraph. Would you
9 read it?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now that paragraph seems to indicate
12 that -- it doesn't seem to indicate, it does
13 indicate that you are trying to make a deal with
14 Mr. Sulaiman for the WBC and Mr. Acaries that if
15 for any reason Mr. Hopkins ends up losing or
16 getting stripped of or refusing his title or
17 refusing to fight Mr. Betare, that Mr. Trinidad
18 will step in and fight Mr. Betare who was a
19 nobody, as you described him, for the vacant WBC
20 file, doesn't it?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It doesn't say that?
23 A. It says that, but I'm saying what you
24 are saying, you've got to put it into context
25 with your tricky questions. If you just ask me
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2 what it is, I'll explain it to you, but it is
3 nothing in this agreement that has any kind of
4 way -- let might just say at the outset, it says
5 if Bernard refuses to fight Betare, you know,
6 then DKP and AB Stars will negotiate in good
7 faith for the Trinidad-Betare vacant title. This
8 is what you must understand.
9 If he don't find, it is going to be
10 there, but I was negotiating with Acaries in
11 protection of Bernard's right to get a step-aside
12 so Bernard could fight, if he chose to honor his
13 agreement he could fight Trinidad.
14 You know what I mean, now if he said
15 he didn't want to fight Betare, then he would
16 have a problem with the purse bid coming up. So
17 I'm way down the line way before it even gets
18 there, I'm trying to walk him through the path so
19 we don't get caught up with these type of things
20 with no purse bid. This agreement is a
21 step-aside agreement.
22 Q. And you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to
23 fight Betare at this time, you wanted him to
24 fight either Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad?
25 A. I wanted him to fight Roy Jones or
2575
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2 Felix Trinidad but not by a diabolical scene. Mr.
3 Bernard would have been making more money if he
4 fought Oscar or Trinidad, he would have made $15
5 million fighting for me.
6 So now you've got to understand what
7 I'm trying to do is make some money, but in the
8 meantime I'm protecting his title. In fact I got
9 Acaries to do what I've been saying every day in
10 here, to step aside without a lot of bombast or
11 fanfare. You can get it done, and Bernard has
12 learned very well because he's getting it done
13 now without me after leaning on me and learning
14 and using my teaching to do it.
15 Q. So this paragraph you are telling me
16 now didn't have anything to do with the fact that
17 you weren't keeping Mr. Joseph advised about what
18 was going on at the WBC with regard to Mr.
19 Hopkins' mandatory, right?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. I don't even
22 understand that question.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't either.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
25 Q. You wanted -- this paragraph that we
2576
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2 just talked about wasn't for the protection of
3 Bernard Hopkins, was it?
4 A. Yes, it was.
5 Q. The one that says that if he refuses
6 to fight Betare, then Trinidad gets the chance to
7 fight Betare? That was for Bernard's protection?
8 A. No. You've got to understand that
9 Trinidad --
10 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is no.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. That was for Trinidad's
13 protection?
14 A. No. It's for the right thing as to
15 what it is. Trinidad is the number one
16 contender, without me even putting that in there,
17 that would automatically go, so what I do is
18 reduce it to writing with the organizational
19 structure. He's already number one, if he didn't
20 fight, they would have to fight anyway. One and
21 two would fight for the vacant title.
22 Q. All right. So you didn't need it in
23 there at all, did you?
24 A. Yes, I did, because I didn't want the
25 Frenchmen to come back on lobbying the WBC and
2577
1 D. King-Cross
2 being absentminded about what they had agreed to.
3 So in the harmony and the spirit of good working
4 together, we put it down. It is nothing but what
5 would have happened anyway according to the rules
6 and regulations, but we didn't want them to come
7 back and say for any reason, that I never agreed
8 to this. I want to do something, I want to get
9 an exception. So you put it right there so you
10 have it. At least if you get an exception,
11 you've got to get it with my approval.
12 Q. Okay, now let's see. Now you just
13 told me that you never told Mr. Hopkins about
14 this step-aside agreement, right?
15 A. I don't know whether I did or not. I
16 was very -- doing a lot of things with Mr.
17 Hopkins, but the more I learned, as I was
18 learning going down the line everything that I
19 said to that team somehow ended up in a betrayal
20 of some sort, but I can't say truthfully that I
21 did or didn't, but I didn't have to.
22 Q. At the same time that this was going
23 on are you complaining about Mr. Hopkins
24 interfering with the sanctioning organizations?
25 A. Yes.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So didn't all you had to do was write
3 a letter to Mr. Joseph saying don't worry about
4 the WBC, I have a step-aside agreement and leave
5 him alone and we have taken care of it?
6 A. I did tell him that.
7 Q. Did you write him a letter?
8 A. I don't write letters, but I certainly
9 told him until his ears burned. I went over it
10 incessantly. That is what is so frustrating and
11 exasperating, incessantly.
12 Q. Did you tell him you had a step-aside
13 agreement?
14 A. I said leave the organizations to me.
15 I do not have to tell the man what I'm doing and
16 how I'm doing it and why I'm doing it. I've been
17 doing it alone. He just came in off the street.
18 I'm trying to teach him along with Bernard but he
19 is not teachable.
20 Q. Okay. Let's change subjects a little
21 bit because I am absolutely going to move along,
22 and Mr. King, please, just keep yourself confined
23 to the question.
24 A. I am trying, Mr. Olin.
25 Q. Now I want to talk about Mr. Joseph's
2579
1 D. King-Cross
2 attempts to get information from you. You would
3 agree with me that shortly -- that the first
4 three bouts went off relatively uneventfully,
5 Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Those were anticipated when you
8 entered into the agreement. You knew there was
9 going to be a first bout. You knew there was
10 going to be a second bout. And you already had
11 promised the IBF that the third bout was going to
12 be their mandatory. And all three of those
13 happened and everybody was happy?
14 A. It went through four bouts, not three.
15 Not two.
16 Q. Including -- I am only talking about
17 Mr. Hopkins' bouts.
18 A. You had a tournament and so everybody
19 had waived their rights because of my negotiation
20 to allow these fighters to fight for an ultimate
21 unified championship, and we did that, and it
22 wasn't no problem with that. And even in that
23 agreement Arnold Joseph said even if he lost one
24 belt, he would still get paid and I agreed with
25 that even if he lost one of the belts in case the
2580
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization would betray what they agreed with
3 us on, and they would take the belt, I agreed
4 without that belt I would pay him the same amount
5 of money.
6 Q. Mr. King, I didn't ask you anything
7 about that.
8 A. I just wanted to explain.
9 I am finished. Thank you very much.
10 Q. Okay. Now starting in December of
11 2001, about two months before the Daniels bout,
12 would you agree with me because I want to -- I'm
13 trying to shorten this up, that Mr. Joseph wrote
14 you several letters telling you essentially Mr.
15 Hopkins is an active guy, he wants to be informed
16 about his career. He wants to participate in the
17 decisions about his career. We want to know what
18 you're doing for him. Please keep us advised.
19 Letters to that effect?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. OLIN: Just for the record, I'm
23 talking about Exhibits 19, 33, 44 and 108.
24 MR. BURSTEIN: This is why we're going
25 to be here forever, Mike.
2581
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. OLIN: I'm not going to go over
3 them now.
4 Q. That he asked for that. Okay. But
5 let's talk about what he didn't know. No copies
6 of the HBO agreements were ever sent to him other
7 than that very first term sheet, correct?
8 A. I don't know. I would say yes.
9 Q. Okay. There is no record that the
10 Betare step-aside agreement was ever sent to him,
11 is there?
12 A. No.
13 Q. There is no record that the Daniels
14 purse bid was ever sent to him, is there?
15 A. What do you mean? I don't know what
16 you mean when you say purse bid.
17 Q. The fact that there was a purse bid.
18 A. He knew. He was on the phone with me
19 when the bid was taken up.
20 Q. Daniels?
21 A. Daniels. He was on the phone. They
22 knew. There was a public auction. I was talking
23 to him and Bernard. They knew it was going to be
24 a purse bid. Bernard was closer with the IBF
25 than I am. Everything that goes in the IBF, he's
2582
1 D. King-Cross
2 been their champion for the longest. He knew
3 that.
4 Q. They didn't know that you had asked to
5 have the Hakkar purse bid?
6 A. That I had asked?
7 Q. That you submitted a bid. They didn't
8 know that you --
9 A. No, no, no, I didn't ask, but listen,
10 I submitted a bid. If any purse bids come up, I
11 submit bids to all of them if I think it's worthy
12 and it's my fighter. But I did not call nor did
13 I send nor did I request a purse bid. I have bid
14 it in the process.
15 Q. Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we have been
17 through this point.
18 MR. OLIN: I think we have.
19 Q. You didn't keep him advised. I think
20 you said it and Ms. Jamison said it, you didn't
21 keep him advised about what you were doing with
22 the sanctioning organizations on his behalf, did
23 you?
24 A. I didn't tell him what I was doing
25 with the sanctioning body.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You heard Ms. Jamison say it was none
3 of his business?
4 A. That is true, but the fact of the
5 matter is I said to him I would tell him, let me
6 handle this. Please don't interfere. Not once,
7 not twice but incessantly because he was writing
8 letters after letters after letters and everybody
9 was afraid of him. You couldn't get nothing done
10 because everybody was afraid of Arnold Joseph and
11 Bernard, what they were doing to do or say, and
12 so therefore you left us all in a very precarious
13 and untenable position.
14 MR. OLIN: Okay. I have a notebook
15 that I have already disclosed to Mr.
16 Burstein which we will submit to the panel
17 that has in it by sanctioning organization
18 correspondence that when you go through it
19 shows who was writing about the
20 correspondence to whom and who was getting
21 copies and who was not getting copies. I'm
22 not going to go through that with Mr. King.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: No objection to it
24 being submitted.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: We will receive that.
2584
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Mr. King, did you have a chance to
3 look at that notebook?
4 A. What notebook?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: You told me not to show
6 it to him.
7 MR. OLIN: Okay.
8 Q. You have not seen the notebook of the
9 sanctions organizations? Okay.
10 Now, you also got a letter from Mr.
11 Joseph asking what your plans were for Mr.
12 Hopkins for 2003? Do you remember that Exhibit
13 103?
14 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede that he
15 did.
16 Q. And you didn't respond to that,
17 correct?
18 A. I don't write letters. But I talk to
19 Arnold all the time. I even missed a meeting
20 that we had with Arnold and his wife.
21 Q. All right, I want to talk about
22 something else that happened --
23 A. And Bernard.
24 Q. I want to talk about something else
25 that happened that you didn't tell Mr. Joseph
2585
1 D. King-Cross
2 about. Take a look at Exhibit 115 if you would.
3 Do you see that?
4 MR. BURSTEIN: 115?
5 MR. OLIN: Yes. It's a request for a
6 purse bid, July 15.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
8 MR. OLIN: That is the one. Okay?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
10 Q. That is Mr. Joseph's letter to the
11 WBA, right, about a purse bid for Mr. Joppy,
12 correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. He sent a copy of that to you, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. In fact, we know this is your copy of
17 it because it has got your Bates stamp down at
18 the bottom, right?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
20 Q. Okay. Now take a look at Exhibit 116.
21 This is the announcement of the purse bid, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. It schedules the purse bid for July
24 26, 2003. Do you see that?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
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2 Q. In Miami. And if you look up above,
3 the first name on the receipt list is Arnold
4 Joseph. You got that?
5 A. He called for it.
6 Q. I understand, but he got a copy of it
7 so he would know when it was.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And of course Don King Productions is
10 on there as well, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Now following that, take a look
13 at number 117.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: For some reason the
15 book I have that you gave me goes from 116
16 to 118.
17 MR. OLIN: Try another one.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Let me try another
19 book.
20 Here is 117.
21 Q. Now in 117, Dana Jamison, who is in
22 charge of this sort of stuff, right?
23 A. Um-hum.
24 Q. She is writing a letter to Mr.
25 Bagnariol asking him to put off the purse
2587
1 D. King-Cross
2 agreement, isn't she?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you send a copy of that to Mr.
5 Joseph?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Again it is none of his business?
8 A. Mr. Joseph usurped my authority and my
9 rights by going to these organizations and
10 calling for the purse bid. That's the problem.
11 Q. Is it none of his business, Mr. King?
12 A. It is not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. It is not. It is not.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. He calls --
17 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is it is
18 not.
19 A. It is not.
20 Q. In that same tab there is a 117-A --
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Do you have that?
22 Q. Which is the revised July 24
23 announcement of a purse bid.
24 MR. OLIN: It should be right after
25 the document.
2588
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: No, all we have is some
3 fax.
4 MR. OLIN: Keep going.
5 MR. BURSTEIN: We just have fax cover
6 sheets.
7 Q. Apparently in response to your letter
8 of July 22, on July 24 the WBA resets the purse
9 agreement -- the purse bid, right?
10 MR. BURSTEIN: I object to
11 "apparently" in response to your letter.
12 MR. OLIN: Forget the "apparently."
13 Q. On July 24 they reset the purse
14 agreement?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: I concede that.
16 MR. OLIN: Okay.
17 Q. Right?
18 A. I guess.
19 Q. Now, look at the names on the list of
20 recipients here and compare it to the list of
21 recipients on Exhibit 116.
22 A. On 116, against all the rules and
23 regulations of the bout, Arnold Joseph, a lawyer
24 for a fighter that I have under exclusive
25 promotion agreement, and the promoter
2589
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization calls for a purse bid, and so
3 naturally since he called for this purse bid they
4 honored and respected him to send a --
5 MR. BURSTEIN: All they are asking you
6 is what is the difference between the two.
7 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
8 A. Arnold Joseph is not on there.
9 Q. On the second one?
10 A. On the second one.
11 Q. He is on the first one but not the
12 second one?
13 A. On the second one they responded to
14 his letters.
15 Q. Of course, he had no idea that they
16 had changed the purse bid because you didn't even
17 tell him that you had asked for it to be changed?
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection as to whether
19 or not he has an idea.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. King may not know
21 whether Mr. Joseph had any idea.
22 A. I didn't know he had an idea of
23 sending a letter in the first place. He didn't
24 tell me. He sent a letter and sent me a c.c. Now
25 I didn't know he was going to ask for no purse
2590
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2 bid. If he had told me beforehand, I would have
3 said no, don't do that. Let's put our heads
4 together and do what we got to do. No, he sent
5 the letter and then sent me in hindsight that he
6 had did it. Now why should I send him a letter.
7 Q. Now you know, don't you, Mr. King,
8 that because of the failure to communicate, Mr.
9 Joseph and Mr. Hopkins traveled to Miami on July
10 26 to go to the purse bid that didn't happen
11 because you asked for it to be continued, don't
12 you?
13 A. I don't know anything about that.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: You know what, I'll do
15 it on redirect.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Good idea.
17 Q. Look at Exhibit 121. You have it?
18 That is Mr. Joseph's letter again to the WBA
19 saying that he accepts the results of the purse
20 bid. You have got that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. It means the bout according to the
23 purchases bid is supposed to take place no later
24 than November 1 from an August 2nd, 90 days,
25 November 1?
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1 D. King-Cross
2 A. That is what his letter says.
3 Q. Okay. And he sends you a copy of that
4 letter?
5 A. How nice of him.
6 Q. Doesn't he?
7 A. Yes, he sent me a copy of a letter
8 that he has already send.
9 Q. And this is from your file so we know
10 you got it?
11 A. I got it. There is no problem. The
12 problem is him doing it.
13 Q. Okay. And then Exhibit 122, Dana
14 Jamison writes and asks for an extension to put
15 the fight on, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Keep Mr. Hopkins on the pine some
18 more?
19 A. No. Just trying to take care of
20 business.
21 Q. Did you give him a copy? Did you send
22 a copy to Mr. Joseph telling him you were asking
23 for an extension?
24 A. No.
25 Q. None of his business, right? Right?
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2 A. What do you want me to say?
3 Q. It is none of his business so you
4 didn't send him a copy. Is that right?
5 A. I don't understand what you are trying
6 to do.
7 Q. I am asking you whether it was any of
8 Mr. Joseph's or Mr. Hopkins' business that you
9 had asked for an extension to put on a fight that
10 Mr. Hopkins was obligated to perform in.
11 A. That is his business, Mr. Hopkins'
12 business, but what you have here is the man just
13 completely took over my promotional duties. Why
14 don't he become the promoter rather than me. He
15 is taking over my duties as a promoter. He
16 should know.
17 I wouldn't know what's going on. Since
18 he's the promoter now he should know when they're
19 changing things. He should be able to keep up
20 with them like I do. When I get a change in
21 schedule, we write a letter and say give us a
22 postponement. Then we get a postponement, since
23 he is the promoter, he should be able to do the
24 same thing. He should go out there and do that.
25 He's the promoter. He took my job right from
2593
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2 under me and interfered with my contract.
3 Q. Is it DKP policy that what Dana
4 Jamison said in this courtroom that what you do
5 with the sanctioning organizations is none of
6 your fighter's business? Is that DKP policy?
7 A. What I do with the sanctioning body is
8 not put in the context that it is none of their
9 business. What I'm doing is trying to keep
10 things going so they don't have to get caught up
11 with mandatories and disputes and divisiveness
12 and hostility. I try to be diplomatic to foresee
13 and foretell rather than to defend and prove.
14 So now when he interferes with our
15 relationship in his relationships he puts
16 everybody on the spot with a fight that is not
17 one that people are clamoring for, and as you can
18 see, every fight that he called for a purse bid
19 on, the purse bid -- the marketplace was never
20 more than 500,000 or a million 5 for the French
21 one only because they had the French guy over
22 there that they want to bring the fight to
23 France.
24 You know, so he's interfering with
25 business that he don't know what he's doing. And
2594
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2 I was telling him every day that's he's doing
3 this now, I'm not talking to him personally, I
4 don't write letters, I said, I told him, please,
5 Arnold, will you stop this. Please, Arnold, will
6 you let me do this. If you've got a problem, why
7 not write me first and tell me or call me and say
8 do it rather than write the organization
9 unilaterally. And that's what he does. He takes
10 my promotional job.
11 Q. Now as I get it, Mr. King, would you
12 agree with me that you did not keep Mr. Joseph or
13 Mr. Hopkins advised in writing about what you
14 were doing to protect him and his mandatories?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede that.
16 MR. OLIN: Okay.
17 Q. Did it ever occur to you that in
18 response to Mr. Joseph's letters requesting
19 information as Mr. Hopkins' lawyer to make sure
20 that Mr. Hopkins knew that he wouldn't get
21 stripped inadvertently or that somebody was
22 paying attention that all you needed to do was
23 write a letter that said dear Arnold, don't worry
24 about the sanctioning organizations. I am and
25 will be responsible for dealing with them. I will
2595
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2 not let your champion get stripped. We will keep
3 you advised about what we are doing and we will
4 be responsible?
5 A. Does it count if I say that to him
6 verbally?
7 Q. Did you ever consider writing him a
8 letter?
9 A. Does it count? You wrote the best
10 letter I've heard in many times. I even was more
11 implicit with that, but does that count? Now he
12 can't --
13 MR. BURSTEIN: The question is did you
14 write a letter --
15 A. In writing, one of my weaknesses is
16 writing. Never mind why. I don't answer a lot
17 of letters. I don't write a lot the letters. I
18 would be writing letters 24 hours a day if I was
19 trying to answer all the letters. I let other
20 people do that.
21 Q. Dana Jamison writes a lot of letters,
22 doesn't she?
23 A. She writes letters. That's what she's
24 good at.
25 Q. Okay. Did you ever say, Dana, if we
2596
1 D. King-Cross
2 have to to get Arnold Joseph off our backs,
3 because he keeps bother us and he keeps writing,
4 please, please, Dana, write him a letter and tell
5 him he doesn't have to worry, his client won't
6 get stripped. I am dealing with the
7 organizations, we'll take care of it, so please
8 stay out of it, we will make sure that Bernard's
9 mandatories are taken care of one way or the
10 other? Did you ever tell Dana to write such a
11 letter?
12 A. She went better than that. I told her
13 and she invited him in and sit him down
14 personally and talk to him about we would take
15 care of whatever it is of what the thing. And
16 Arnold came to the office and we told him, so we
17 went further than, better than that, personal
18 communication.
19 MR. BURSTEIN: But you never wrote a
20 letter?
21 THE WITNESS: Never wrote a letter.
22 MR. BURSTEIN: You never told Dana
23 Jamison to write a letter, right?
24 THE WITNESS: Never told her to write
25 a letter. She may have wrote -- she thought
2597
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2 she had a relationship. Never, I didn't
3 write a letter.
4 Q. All right. Now I want to talk about
5 some bout agreements. I'm getting there. And I
6 will try and go quickly, Mr. King, so bear with
7 me. If we have to, we will go through them one
8 at a time, but I'm going to try and do it fast.
9 Would you agree with me that both you
10 and Mr. Hopkins signed a 2003 bout agreement, a
11 2004 bout agreement, a $5 million bout agreement
12 for Felix Trinidad, a $10 million bout agreement
13 for Roy Jones, a $2500 -- $2-1/2 million
14 agreement to fight a mandatory before Jones and
15 Trinidad, and an October 4 letter agreement for
16 $750,000 to fight Mr. Hakkar?
17 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede, was the
18 question did -- did he and Bernard Hopkins
19 sign?
20 Q. Did you and Mr. Hopkins or his
21 representative sign those six contracts?
22 MR. BURSTEIN: I will stipulate.
23 MR. OLIN: Okay.
24 Q. In addition to that, did Mr. Hopkins
25 sign a bout agreement on July 29, 2002 to fight
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2 Mr. Hakkar for 1 million 1 which you did not sign
3 and a bout agreement to fight James Toney on May
4 8, 2003 for 4` point -- $4 million plus some
5 additional things? I think you said a car.
6 MR. BURSTEIN: I will stipulate, yes.
7 Q. Did you put on any of those bouts
8 pursuant to the terms of those agreements?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Now with regard to the Jones
11 agreement, I want to make sure that what we are
12 talking about is the same thing. You said that
13 my deal with Bernard was we'd sign the agreement
14 for 10 but he was going to give you 2 back?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So in essence, your deal with Bernard
17 for Jones was only $8 million for Bernard?
18 A. That is what Bernard told me.
19 Q. Okay. Now Mr. Hopkins, had you
20 decided to put any one of those bouts on, Mr.
21 Hopkins was obligated to perform for the purses
22 defined in those agreements, right?
23 A. I think I testified that Mr. Hopkins,
24 that the Jones bout was off the table. Felix
25 Trinidad was retired. Those were trying to
2599
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2 resurrect, they were not agreements.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: That is not the
4 question he was asking.
5 Q. That is not my question. The only one
6 who had a way out of those agreements was you?
7 A. That is not true.
8 Q. Well, if you said to Mr. Hopkins,
9 Bernard, I got a contract for the 8/22 mandatory,
10 the 8/22 contract for the mandatory for 2-1/2
11 million. I am going to pay you the 2-1/2
12 million. I want you to fight such and such a
13 middleweight on such and such a date, he would
14 have had to do it and you would have had to pay
15 him? If you'd have said that?
16 A. If I'd have said that?
17 Q. Yes.
18 A. I think he would have been happy to do
19 it.
20 Q. Okay. And if you would have said,
21 Bernard, you signed a contract to fight Roy Jones
22 for 10 million, you are going to give me 2 back,
23 I have got it set, it's going to be August 19 in
24 Las Vegas Hilton, I want you -- what I have done
25 with the TV is my business, it's none of your
2600
1 D. King-Cross
2 business, let's go do the fight, he would have
3 had to fight?
4 A. What you have is a $2-1/2 million --
5 Q. Can you answer my question?
6 A. No, I don't know. I can't answer the
7 question because it didn't exist, so it doesn't
8 matter. Whatever you say, no, I couldn't have
9 done it. I would not have done it.
10 Q. I didn't say whether you would have
11 done it, but what I'm saying is Bernard was
12 obligated to do it if you wanted him to do it?
13 A. No.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Isn't that a legal
15 conclusion?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think it is. I am
17 trying to imagine all the various
18 contingencies and complications, force
19 majeure and everything else that might
20 intervene.
21 Q. The bottom line is that with all eight
22 of those agreements, you decided not to proceed
23 with them?
24 A. Not true.
25 Q. Well, you never went forward with the
2601
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2 2003 agreement?
3 A. Which one was that?
4 Q. The bout agreement for 2003.
5 A. Which one is that, for who?
6 Q. There's no name.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Unnamed opponent.
8 Conceded.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. You never went forward with the 2004
11 bout agreement before the end of your term?
12 A. I was trying to go through with that.
13 He run off. He breached.
14 Q. You never were able to put together
15 the Trinidad fight for the 5 million?
16 A. It was together. That was together.
17 Q. But you didn't put this one on?
18 A. That was together. And I'd have to go
19 to him. That was together. He wouldn't fight.
20 Q. Look, I think this is obvious so I'm
21 not going to fight with you about it.
22 Now you had said that when you sign a
23 contract with a fighter, you have to deliver what
24 you contract for, didn't you?
25 A. Yes.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. In fact, you said that in the Chavez
3 case, right? You said to be able to deliver on
4 what you contract for and what you have contracts
5 that you represent, that you have to deliver the
6 person that you have to be relied upon by your
7 business colleagues and the broadcasters that I
8 am doing business with, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you have told us innumerable times
11 about the sanctity of contracts and contracts are
12 important and you have got to live by them?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And that they are important to you and
15 that they got to mean something?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. Let's talk about Roy Jones.
18 Jones wanted 60-40, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You never got a contract from Roy
21 Jones, did you, at any price?
22 A. No.
23 Q. In fact, you said yesterday that Roy
24 was very, very, very difficult to deal with?
25 A. Yes.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. And you've said that Roy stuck to his
3 guns on the 60-40 and that he was cantankerous, I
4 think you described him as in your deposition?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: I think if you want to
6 point him to testimony.
7 Q. Did you describe Roy Jones as
8 cantankerous, difficult at sticking to his guns
9 and very, very, very difficult?
10 A. Yes. And I went on to say that I had
11 to keep working on him and he finally came up to
12 go with the $6 million.
13 Q. Okay. And you took Bernard down there
14 and said, let's get them all primed, and you said
15 Bernard did his job and got in Roy's face and
16 they almost had a fight in the dressing room
17 where nobody was going to make any money?
18 A. That is true.
19 Q. Okay. On the way there you signed a
20 contract with Bernard for the $10 million less
21 the $2 million?
22 A. And then Arnold stuck in the $2.5
23 million thing, but it was all a scam anyway so it
24 didn't make no difference.
25 Q. Okay.
thehype
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. That's all I'm asking you. You wanted
3 Tito to have a chance to get his belts or a belt
4 back?
5 A. I wanted him to fight Bernard Hopkins
6 because that served both. If Bernard beat him
7 twice, then that's nothing more could say because
8 I told Tito when he signed to fight in the
9 tournament that Bernard if he should win would
10 give him a return match like everybody else does
11 on the big fights and he didn't. He breached
12 that agreement.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 43.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Any particular point?
15 Q. You recognize Exhibit 43 as a
16 step-aside agreement that you had with Michele
17 Acaries in February 2002 -- oh, I'm sorry --
18 signed by you, Mr. Acaries and by Mr. Sulaiman,
19 who was the --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- president of the WBC?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. You never told Mr. Hopkins
24 about this, did you?
25 A. It wasn't necessary to tell Mr.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Hopkins.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is yes or
4 no.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Now there is a curious
7 paragraph in this step-aside that I would like
8 you to look at. The last paragraph. Would you
9 read it?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now that paragraph seems to indicate
12 that -- it doesn't seem to indicate, it does
13 indicate that you are trying to make a deal with
14 Mr. Sulaiman for the WBC and Mr. Acaries that if
15 for any reason Mr. Hopkins ends up losing or
16 getting stripped of or refusing his title or
17 refusing to fight Mr. Betare, that Mr. Trinidad
18 will step in and fight Mr. Betare who was a
19 nobody, as you described him, for the vacant WBC
20 file, doesn't it?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It doesn't say that?
23 A. It says that, but I'm saying what you
24 are saying, you've got to put it into context
25 with your tricky questions. If you just ask me
2574
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2 what it is, I'll explain it to you, but it is
3 nothing in this agreement that has any kind of
4 way -- let might just say at the outset, it says
5 if Bernard refuses to fight Betare, you know,
6 then DKP and AB Stars will negotiate in good
7 faith for the Trinidad-Betare vacant title. This
8 is what you must understand.
9 If he don't find, it is going to be
10 there, but I was negotiating with Acaries in
11 protection of Bernard's right to get a step-aside
12 so Bernard could fight, if he chose to honor his
13 agreement he could fight Trinidad.
14 You know what I mean, now if he said
15 he didn't want to fight Betare, then he would
16 have a problem with the purse bid coming up. So
17 I'm way down the line way before it even gets
18 there, I'm trying to walk him through the path so
19 we don't get caught up with these type of things
20 with no purse bid. This agreement is a
21 step-aside agreement.
22 Q. And you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to
23 fight Betare at this time, you wanted him to
24 fight either Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad?
25 A. I wanted him to fight Roy Jones or
2575
1 D. King-Cross
2 Felix Trinidad but not by a diabolical scene. Mr.
3 Bernard would have been making more money if he
4 fought Oscar or Trinidad, he would have made $15
5 million fighting for me.
6 So now you've got to understand what
7 I'm trying to do is make some money, but in the
8 meantime I'm protecting his title. In fact I got
9 Acaries to do what I've been saying every day in
10 here, to step aside without a lot of bombast or
11 fanfare. You can get it done, and Bernard has
12 learned very well because he's getting it done
13 now without me after leaning on me and learning
14 and using my teaching to do it.
15 Q. So this paragraph you are telling me
16 now didn't have anything to do with the fact that
17 you weren't keeping Mr. Joseph advised about what
18 was going on at the WBC with regard to Mr.
19 Hopkins' mandatory, right?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. I don't even
22 understand that question.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't either.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
25 Q. You wanted -- this paragraph that we
2576
1 D. King-Cross
2 just talked about wasn't for the protection of
3 Bernard Hopkins, was it?
4 A. Yes, it was.
5 Q. The one that says that if he refuses
6 to fight Betare, then Trinidad gets the chance to
7 fight Betare? That was for Bernard's protection?
8 A. No. You've got to understand that
9 Trinidad --
10 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is no.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. That was for Trinidad's
13 protection?
14 A. No. It's for the right thing as to
15 what it is. Trinidad is the number one
16 contender, without me even putting that in there,
17 that would automatically go, so what I do is
18 reduce it to writing with the organizational
19 structure. He's already number one, if he didn't
20 fight, they would have to fight anyway. One and
21 two would fight for the vacant title.
22 Q. All right. So you didn't need it in
23 there at all, did you?
24 A. Yes, I did, because I didn't want the
25 Frenchmen to come back on lobbying the WBC and
2577
1 D. King-Cross
2 being absentminded about what they had agreed to.
3 So in the harmony and the spirit of good working
4 together, we put it down. It is nothing but what
5 would have happened anyway according to the rules
6 and regulations, but we didn't want them to come
7 back and say for any reason, that I never agreed
8 to this. I want to do something, I want to get
9 an exception. So you put it right there so you
10 have it. At least if you get an exception,
11 you've got to get it with my approval.
12 Q. Okay, now let's see. Now you just
13 told me that you never told Mr. Hopkins about
14 this step-aside agreement, right?
15 A. I don't know whether I did or not. I
16 was very -- doing a lot of things with Mr.
17 Hopkins, but the more I learned, as I was
18 learning going down the line everything that I
19 said to that team somehow ended up in a betrayal
20 of some sort, but I can't say truthfully that I
21 did or didn't, but I didn't have to.
22 Q. At the same time that this was going
23 on are you complaining about Mr. Hopkins
24 interfering with the sanctioning organizations?
25 A. Yes.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So didn't all you had to do was write
3 a letter to Mr. Joseph saying don't worry about
4 the WBC, I have a step-aside agreement and leave
5 him alone and we have taken care of it?
6 A. I did tell him that.
7 Q. Did you write him a letter?
8 A. I don't write letters, but I certainly
9 told him until his ears burned. I went over it
10 incessantly. That is what is so frustrating and
11 exasperating, incessantly.
12 Q. Did you tell him you had a step-aside
13 agreement?
14 A. I said leave the organizations to me.
15 I do not have to tell the man what I'm doing and
16 how I'm doing it and why I'm doing it. I've been
17 doing it alone. He just came in off the street.
18 I'm trying to teach him along with Bernard but he
19 is not teachable.
20 Q. Okay. Let's change subjects a little
21 bit because I am absolutely going to move along,
22 and Mr. King, please, just keep yourself confined
23 to the question.
24 A. I am trying, Mr. Olin.
25 Q. Now I want to talk about Mr. Joseph's
2579
1 D. King-Cross
2 attempts to get information from you. You would
3 agree with me that shortly -- that the first
4 three bouts went off relatively uneventfully,
5 Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Those were anticipated when you
8 entered into the agreement. You knew there was
9 going to be a first bout. You knew there was
10 going to be a second bout. And you already had
11 promised the IBF that the third bout was going to
12 be their mandatory. And all three of those
13 happened and everybody was happy?
14 A. It went through four bouts, not three.
15 Not two.
16 Q. Including -- I am only talking about
17 Mr. Hopkins' bouts.
18 A. You had a tournament and so everybody
19 had waived their rights because of my negotiation
20 to allow these fighters to fight for an ultimate
21 unified championship, and we did that, and it
22 wasn't no problem with that. And even in that
23 agreement Arnold Joseph said even if he lost one
24 belt, he would still get paid and I agreed with
25 that even if he lost one of the belts in case the
2580
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization would betray what they agreed with
3 us on, and they would take the belt, I agreed
4 without that belt I would pay him the same amount
5 of money.
6 Q. Mr. King, I didn't ask you anything
7 about that.
8 A. I just wanted to explain.
9 I am finished. Thank you very much.
10 Q. Okay. Now starting in December of
11 2001, about two months before the Daniels bout,
12 would you agree with me because I want to -- I'm
13 trying to shorten this up, that Mr. Joseph wrote
14 you several letters telling you essentially Mr.
15 Hopkins is an active guy, he wants to be informed
16 about his career. He wants to participate in the
17 decisions about his career. We want to know what
18 you're doing for him. Please keep us advised.
19 Letters to that effect?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. OLIN: Just for the record, I'm
23 talking about Exhibits 19, 33, 44 and 108.
24 MR. BURSTEIN: This is why we're going
25 to be here forever, Mike.
2581
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. OLIN: I'm not going to go over
3 them now.
4 Q. That he asked for that. Okay. But
5 let's talk about what he didn't know. No copies
6 of the HBO agreements were ever sent to him other
7 than that very first term sheet, correct?
8 A. I don't know. I would say yes.
9 Q. Okay. There is no record that the
10 Betare step-aside agreement was ever sent to him,
11 is there?
12 A. No.
13 Q. There is no record that the Daniels
14 purse bid was ever sent to him, is there?
15 A. What do you mean? I don't know what
16 you mean when you say purse bid.
17 Q. The fact that there was a purse bid.
18 A. He knew. He was on the phone with me
19 when the bid was taken up.
20 Q. Daniels?
21 A. Daniels. He was on the phone. They
22 knew. There was a public auction. I was talking
23 to him and Bernard. They knew it was going to be
24 a purse bid. Bernard was closer with the IBF
25 than I am. Everything that goes in the IBF, he's
2582
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2 been their champion for the longest. He knew
3 that.
4 Q. They didn't know that you had asked to
5 have the Hakkar purse bid?
6 A. That I had asked?
7 Q. That you submitted a bid. They didn't
8 know that you --
9 A. No, no, no, I didn't ask, but listen,
10 I submitted a bid. If any purse bids come up, I
11 submit bids to all of them if I think it's worthy
12 and it's my fighter. But I did not call nor did
13 I send nor did I request a purse bid. I have bid
14 it in the process.
15 Q. Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we have been
17 through this point.
18 MR. OLIN: I think we have.
19 Q. You didn't keep him advised. I think
20 you said it and Ms. Jamison said it, you didn't
21 keep him advised about what you were doing with
22 the sanctioning organizations on his behalf, did
23 you?
24 A. I didn't tell him what I was doing
25 with the sanctioning body.
2583
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You heard Ms. Jamison say it was none
3 of his business?
4 A. That is true, but the fact of the
5 matter is I said to him I would tell him, let me
6 handle this. Please don't interfere. Not once,
7 not twice but incessantly because he was writing
8 letters after letters after letters and everybody
9 was afraid of him. You couldn't get nothing done
10 because everybody was afraid of Arnold Joseph and
11 Bernard, what they were doing to do or say, and
12 so therefore you left us all in a very precarious
13 and untenable position.
14 MR. OLIN: Okay. I have a notebook
15 that I have already disclosed to Mr.
16 Burstein which we will submit to the panel
17 that has in it by sanctioning organization
18 correspondence that when you go through it
19 shows who was writing about the
20 correspondence to whom and who was getting
21 copies and who was not getting copies. I'm
22 not going to go through that with Mr. King.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: No objection to it
24 being submitted.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: We will receive that.
2584
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Mr. King, did you have a chance to
3 look at that notebook?
4 A. What notebook?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: You told me not to show
6 it to him.
7 MR. OLIN: Okay.
8 Q. You have not seen the notebook of the
9 sanctions organizations? Okay.
10 Now, you also got a letter from Mr.
11 Joseph asking what your plans were for Mr.
12 Hopkins for 2003? Do you remember that Exhibit
13 103?
14 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede that he
15 did.
16 Q. And you didn't respond to that,
17 correct?
18 A. I don't write letters. But I talk to
19 Arnold all the time. I even missed a meeting
20 that we had with Arnold and his wife.
21 Q. All right, I want to talk about
22 something else that happened --
23 A. And Bernard.
24 Q. I want to talk about something else
25 that happened that you didn't tell Mr. Joseph
2585
1 D. King-Cross
2 about. Take a look at Exhibit 115 if you would.
3 Do you see that?
4 MR. BURSTEIN: 115?
5 MR. OLIN: Yes. It's a request for a
6 purse bid, July 15.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
8 MR. OLIN: That is the one. Okay?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
10 Q. That is Mr. Joseph's letter to the
11 WBA, right, about a purse bid for Mr. Joppy,
12 correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. He sent a copy of that to you, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. In fact, we know this is your copy of
17 it because it has got your Bates stamp down at
18 the bottom, right?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
20 Q. Okay. Now take a look at Exhibit 116.
21 This is the announcement of the purse bid, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. It schedules the purse bid for July
24 26, 2003. Do you see that?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. In Miami. And if you look up above,
3 the first name on the receipt list is Arnold
4 Joseph. You got that?
5 A. He called for it.
6 Q. I understand, but he got a copy of it
7 so he would know when it was.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And of course Don King Productions is
10 on there as well, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Now following that, take a look
13 at number 117.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: For some reason the
15 book I have that you gave me goes from 116
16 to 118.
17 MR. OLIN: Try another one.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Let me try another
19 book.
20 Here is 117.
21 Q. Now in 117, Dana Jamison, who is in
22 charge of this sort of stuff, right?
23 A. Um-hum.
24 Q. She is writing a letter to Mr.
25 Bagnariol asking him to put off the purse
2587
1 D. King-Cross
2 agreement, isn't she?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you send a copy of that to Mr.
5 Joseph?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Again it is none of his business?
8 A. Mr. Joseph usurped my authority and my
9 rights by going to these organizations and
10 calling for the purse bid. That's the problem.
11 Q. Is it none of his business, Mr. King?
12 A. It is not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. It is not. It is not.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. He calls --
17 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is it is
18 not.
19 A. It is not.
20 Q. In that same tab there is a 117-A --
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Do you have that?
22 Q. Which is the revised July 24
23 announcement of a purse bid.
24 MR. OLIN: It should be right after
25 the document.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: No, all we have is some
3 fax.
4 MR. OLIN: Keep going.
5 MR. BURSTEIN: We just have fax cover
6 sheets.
7 Q. Apparently in response to your letter
8 of July 22, on July 24 the WBA resets the purse
9 agreement -- the purse bid, right?
10 MR. BURSTEIN: I object to
11 "apparently" in response to your letter.
12 MR. OLIN: Forget the "apparently."
13 Q. On July 24 they reset the purse
14 agreement?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: I concede that.
16 MR. OLIN: Okay.
17 Q. Right?
18 A. I guess.
19 Q. Now, look at the names on the list of
20 recipients here and compare it to the list of
21 recipients on Exhibit 116.
22 A. On 116, against all the rules and
23 regulations of the bout, Arnold Joseph, a lawyer
24 for a fighter that I have under exclusive
25 promotion agreement, and the promoter
2589
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization calls for a purse bid, and so
3 naturally since he called for this purse bid they
4 honored and respected him to send a --
5 MR. BURSTEIN: All they are asking you
6 is what is the difference between the two.
7 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
8 A. Arnold Joseph is not on there.
9 Q. On the second one?
10 A. On the second one.
11 Q. He is on the first one but not the
12 second one?
13 A. On the second one they responded to
14 his letters.
15 Q. Of course, he had no idea that they
16 had changed the purse bid because you didn't even
17 tell him that you had asked for it to be changed?
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection as to whether
19 or not he has an idea.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. King may not know
21 whether Mr. Joseph had any idea.
22 A. I didn't know he had an idea of
23 sending a letter in the first place. He didn't
24 tell me. He sent a letter and sent me a c.c. Now
25 I didn't know he was going to ask for no purse
2590
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2 bid. If he had told me beforehand, I would have
3 said no, don't do that. Let's put our heads
4 together and do what we got to do. No, he sent
5 the letter and then sent me in hindsight that he
6 had did it. Now why should I send him a letter.
7 Q. Now you know, don't you, Mr. King,
8 that because of the failure to communicate, Mr.
9 Joseph and Mr. Hopkins traveled to Miami on July
10 26 to go to the purse bid that didn't happen
11 because you asked for it to be continued, don't
12 you?
13 A. I don't know anything about that.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: You know what, I'll do
15 it on redirect.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Good idea.
17 Q. Look at Exhibit 121. You have it?
18 That is Mr. Joseph's letter again to the WBA
19 saying that he accepts the results of the purse
20 bid. You have got that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. It means the bout according to the
23 purchases bid is supposed to take place no later
24 than November 1 from an August 2nd, 90 days,
25 November 1?
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2 A. That is what his letter says.
3 Q. Okay. And he sends you a copy of that
4 letter?
5 A. How nice of him.
6 Q. Doesn't he?
7 A. Yes, he sent me a copy of a letter
8 that he has already send.
9 Q. And this is from your file so we know
10 you got it?
11 A. I got it. There is no problem. The
12 problem is him doing it.
13 Q. Okay. And then Exhibit 122, Dana
14 Jamison writes and asks for an extension to put
15 the fight on, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Keep Mr. Hopkins on the pine some
18 more?
19 A. No. Just trying to take care of
20 business.
21 Q. Did you give him a copy? Did you send
22 a copy to Mr. Joseph telling him you were asking
23 for an extension?
24 A. No.
25 Q. None of his business, right? Right?
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2 A. What do you want me to say?
3 Q. It is none of his business so you
4 didn't send him a copy. Is that right?
5 A. I don't understand what you are trying
6 to do.
7 Q. I am asking you whether it was any of
8 Mr. Joseph's or Mr. Hopkins' business that you
9 had asked for an extension to put on a fight that
10 Mr. Hopkins was obligated to perform in.
11 A. That is his business, Mr. Hopkins'
12 business, but what you have here is the man just
13 completely took over my promotional duties. Why
14 don't he become the promoter rather than me. He
15 is taking over my duties as a promoter. He
16 should know.
17 I wouldn't know what's going on. Since
18 he's the promoter now he should know when they're
19 changing things. He should be able to keep up
20 with them like I do. When I get a change in
21 schedule, we write a letter and say give us a
22 postponement. Then we get a postponement, since
23 he is the promoter, he should be able to do the
24 same thing. He should go out there and do that.
25 He's the promoter. He took my job right from
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2 under me and interfered with my contract.
3 Q. Is it DKP policy that what Dana
4 Jamison said in this courtroom that what you do
5 with the sanctioning organizations is none of
6 your fighter's business? Is that DKP policy?
7 A. What I do with the sanctioning body is
8 not put in the context that it is none of their
9 business. What I'm doing is trying to keep
10 things going so they don't have to get caught up
11 with mandatories and disputes and divisiveness
12 and hostility. I try to be diplomatic to foresee
13 and foretell rather than to defend and prove.
14 So now when he interferes with our
15 relationship in his relationships he puts
16 everybody on the spot with a fight that is not
17 one that people are clamoring for, and as you can
18 see, every fight that he called for a purse bid
19 on, the purse bid -- the marketplace was never
20 more than 500,000 or a million 5 for the French
21 one only because they had the French guy over
22 there that they want to bring the fight to
23 France.
24 You know, so he's interfering with
25 business that he don't know what he's doing. And
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2 I was telling him every day that's he's doing
3 this now, I'm not talking to him personally, I
4 don't write letters, I said, I told him, please,
5 Arnold, will you stop this. Please, Arnold, will
6 you let me do this. If you've got a problem, why
7 not write me first and tell me or call me and say
8 do it rather than write the organization
9 unilaterally. And that's what he does. He takes
10 my promotional job.
11 Q. Now as I get it, Mr. King, would you
12 agree with me that you did not keep Mr. Joseph or
13 Mr. Hopkins advised in writing about what you
14 were doing to protect him and his mandatories?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede that.
16 MR. OLIN: Okay.
17 Q. Did it ever occur to you that in
18 response to Mr. Joseph's letters requesting
19 information as Mr. Hopkins' lawyer to make sure
20 that Mr. Hopkins knew that he wouldn't get
21 stripped inadvertently or that somebody was
22 paying attention that all you needed to do was
23 write a letter that said dear Arnold, don't worry
24 about the sanctioning organizations. I am and
25 will be responsible for dealing with them. I will
2595
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2 not let your champion get stripped. We will keep
3 you advised about what we are doing and we will
4 be responsible?
5 A. Does it count if I say that to him
6 verbally?
7 Q. Did you ever consider writing him a
8 letter?
9 A. Does it count? You wrote the best
10 letter I've heard in many times. I even was more
11 implicit with that, but does that count? Now he
12 can't --
13 MR. BURSTEIN: The question is did you
14 write a letter --
15 A. In writing, one of my weaknesses is
16 writing. Never mind why. I don't answer a lot
17 of letters. I don't write a lot the letters. I
18 would be writing letters 24 hours a day if I was
19 trying to answer all the letters. I let other
20 people do that.
21 Q. Dana Jamison writes a lot of letters,
22 doesn't she?
23 A. She writes letters. That's what she's
24 good at.
25 Q. Okay. Did you ever say, Dana, if we
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2 have to to get Arnold Joseph off our backs,
3 because he keeps bother us and he keeps writing,
4 please, please, Dana, write him a letter and tell
5 him he doesn't have to worry, his client won't
6 get stripped. I am dealing with the
7 organizations, we'll take care of it, so please
8 stay out of it, we will make sure that Bernard's
9 mandatories are taken care of one way or the
10 other? Did you ever tell Dana to write such a
11 letter?
12 A. She went better than that. I told her
13 and she invited him in and sit him down
14 personally and talk to him about we would take
15 care of whatever it is of what the thing. And
16 Arnold came to the office and we told him, so we
17 went further than, better than that, personal
18 communication.
19 MR. BURSTEIN: But you never wrote a
20 letter?
21 THE WITNESS: Never wrote a letter.
22 MR. BURSTEIN: You never told Dana
23 Jamison to write a letter, right?
24 THE WITNESS: Never told her to write
25 a letter. She may have wrote -- she thought
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2 she had a relationship. Never, I didn't
3 write a letter.
4 Q. All right. Now I want to talk about
5 some bout agreements. I'm getting there. And I
6 will try and go quickly, Mr. King, so bear with
7 me. If we have to, we will go through them one
8 at a time, but I'm going to try and do it fast.
9 Would you agree with me that both you
10 and Mr. Hopkins signed a 2003 bout agreement, a
11 2004 bout agreement, a $5 million bout agreement
12 for Felix Trinidad, a $10 million bout agreement
13 for Roy Jones, a $2500 -- $2-1/2 million
14 agreement to fight a mandatory before Jones and
15 Trinidad, and an October 4 letter agreement for
16 $750,000 to fight Mr. Hakkar?
17 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede, was the
18 question did -- did he and Bernard Hopkins
19 sign?
20 Q. Did you and Mr. Hopkins or his
21 representative sign those six contracts?
22 MR. BURSTEIN: I will stipulate.
23 MR. OLIN: Okay.
24 Q. In addition to that, did Mr. Hopkins
25 sign a bout agreement on July 29, 2002 to fight
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2 Mr. Hakkar for 1 million 1 which you did not sign
3 and a bout agreement to fight James Toney on May
4 8, 2003 for 4` point -- $4 million plus some
5 additional things? I think you said a car.
6 MR. BURSTEIN: I will stipulate, yes.
7 Q. Did you put on any of those bouts
8 pursuant to the terms of those agreements?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Now with regard to the Jones
11 agreement, I want to make sure that what we are
12 talking about is the same thing. You said that
13 my deal with Bernard was we'd sign the agreement
14 for 10 but he was going to give you 2 back?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So in essence, your deal with Bernard
17 for Jones was only $8 million for Bernard?
18 A. That is what Bernard told me.
19 Q. Okay. Now Mr. Hopkins, had you
20 decided to put any one of those bouts on, Mr.
21 Hopkins was obligated to perform for the purses
22 defined in those agreements, right?
23 A. I think I testified that Mr. Hopkins,
24 that the Jones bout was off the table. Felix
25 Trinidad was retired. Those were trying to
2599
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2 resurrect, they were not agreements.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: That is not the
4 question he was asking.
5 Q. That is not my question. The only one
6 who had a way out of those agreements was you?
7 A. That is not true.
8 Q. Well, if you said to Mr. Hopkins,
9 Bernard, I got a contract for the 8/22 mandatory,
10 the 8/22 contract for the mandatory for 2-1/2
11 million. I am going to pay you the 2-1/2
12 million. I want you to fight such and such a
13 middleweight on such and such a date, he would
14 have had to do it and you would have had to pay
15 him? If you'd have said that?
16 A. If I'd have said that?
17 Q. Yes.
18 A. I think he would have been happy to do
19 it.
20 Q. Okay. And if you would have said,
21 Bernard, you signed a contract to fight Roy Jones
22 for 10 million, you are going to give me 2 back,
23 I have got it set, it's going to be August 19 in
24 Las Vegas Hilton, I want you -- what I have done
25 with the TV is my business, it's none of your
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1 D. King-Cross
2 business, let's go do the fight, he would have
3 had to fight?
4 A. What you have is a $2-1/2 million --
5 Q. Can you answer my question?
6 A. No, I don't know. I can't answer the
7 question because it didn't exist, so it doesn't
8 matter. Whatever you say, no, I couldn't have
9 done it. I would not have done it.
10 Q. I didn't say whether you would have
11 done it, but what I'm saying is Bernard was
12 obligated to do it if you wanted him to do it?
13 A. No.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Isn't that a legal
15 conclusion?
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think it is. I am
17 trying to imagine all the various
18 contingencies and complications, force
19 majeure and everything else that might
20 intervene.
21 Q. The bottom line is that with all eight
22 of those agreements, you decided not to proceed
23 with them?
24 A. Not true.
25 Q. Well, you never went forward with the
2601
1 D. King-Cross
2 2003 agreement?
3 A. Which one was that?
4 Q. The bout agreement for 2003.
5 A. Which one is that, for who?
6 Q. There's no name.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Unnamed opponent.
8 Conceded.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. You never went forward with the 2004
11 bout agreement before the end of your term?
12 A. I was trying to go through with that.
13 He run off. He breached.
14 Q. You never were able to put together
15 the Trinidad fight for the 5 million?
16 A. It was together. That was together.
17 Q. But you didn't put this one on?
18 A. That was together. And I'd have to go
19 to him. That was together. He wouldn't fight.
20 Q. Look, I think this is obvious so I'm
21 not going to fight with you about it.
22 Now you had said that when you sign a
23 contract with a fighter, you have to deliver what
24 you contract for, didn't you?
25 A. Yes.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. In fact, you said that in the Chavez
3 case, right? You said to be able to deliver on
4 what you contract for and what you have contracts
5 that you represent, that you have to deliver the
6 person that you have to be relied upon by your
7 business colleagues and the broadcasters that I
8 am doing business with, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you have told us innumerable times
11 about the sanctity of contracts and contracts are
12 important and you have got to live by them?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And that they are important to you and
15 that they got to mean something?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. Let's talk about Roy Jones.
18 Jones wanted 60-40, right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. You never got a contract from Roy
21 Jones, did you, at any price?
22 A. No.
23 Q. In fact, you said yesterday that Roy
24 was very, very, very difficult to deal with?
25 A. Yes.
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. And you've said that Roy stuck to his
3 guns on the 60-40 and that he was cantankerous, I
4 think you described him as in your deposition?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: I think if you want to
6 point him to testimony.
7 Q. Did you describe Roy Jones as
8 cantankerous, difficult at sticking to his guns
9 and very, very, very difficult?
10 A. Yes. And I went on to say that I had
11 to keep working on him and he finally came up to
12 go with the $6 million.
13 Q. Okay. And you took Bernard down there
14 and said, let's get them all primed, and you said
15 Bernard did his job and got in Roy's face and
16 they almost had a fight in the dressing room
17 where nobody was going to make any money?
18 A. That is true.
19 Q. Okay. On the way there you signed a
20 contract with Bernard for the $10 million less
21 the $2 million?
22 A. And then Arnold stuck in the $2.5
23 million thing, but it was all a scam anyway so it
24 didn't make no difference.
25 Q. Okay.
thehype
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. That's all I'm asking you. You wanted
3 Tito to have a chance to get his belts or a belt
4 back?
5 A. I wanted him to fight Bernard Hopkins
6 because that served both. If Bernard beat him
7 twice, then that's nothing more could say because
8 I told Tito when he signed to fight in the
9 tournament that Bernard if he should win would
10 give him a return match like everybody else does
11 on the big fights and he didn't. He breached
12 that agreement.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 43.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Any particular point?
15 Q. You recognize Exhibit 43 as a
16 step-aside agreement that you had with Michele
17 Acaries in February 2002 -- oh, I'm sorry --
18 signed by you, Mr. Acaries and by Mr. Sulaiman,
19 who was the --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- president of the WBC?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. You never told Mr. Hopkins
24 about this, did you?
25 A. It wasn't necessary to tell Mr.
2573
1 D. King-Cross
2 Hopkins.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is yes or
4 no.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Now there is a curious
7 paragraph in this step-aside that I would like
8 you to look at. The last paragraph. Would you
9 read it?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now that paragraph seems to indicate
12 that -- it doesn't seem to indicate, it does
13 indicate that you are trying to make a deal with
14 Mr. Sulaiman for the WBC and Mr. Acaries that if
15 for any reason Mr. Hopkins ends up losing or
16 getting stripped of or refusing his title or
17 refusing to fight Mr. Betare, that Mr. Trinidad
18 will step in and fight Mr. Betare who was a
19 nobody, as you described him, for the vacant WBC
20 file, doesn't it?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It doesn't say that?
23 A. It says that, but I'm saying what you
24 are saying, you've got to put it into context
25 with your tricky questions. If you just ask me
2574
1 D. King-Cross
2 what it is, I'll explain it to you, but it is
3 nothing in this agreement that has any kind of
4 way -- let might just say at the outset, it says
5 if Bernard refuses to fight Betare, you know,
6 then DKP and AB Stars will negotiate in good
7 faith for the Trinidad-Betare vacant title. This
8 is what you must understand.
9 If he don't find, it is going to be
10 there, but I was negotiating with Acaries in
11 protection of Bernard's right to get a step-aside
12 so Bernard could fight, if he chose to honor his
13 agreement he could fight Trinidad.
14 You know what I mean, now if he said
15 he didn't want to fight Betare, then he would
16 have a problem with the purse bid coming up. So
17 I'm way down the line way before it even gets
18 there, I'm trying to walk him through the path so
19 we don't get caught up with these type of things
20 with no purse bid. This agreement is a
21 step-aside agreement.
22 Q. And you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to
23 fight Betare at this time, you wanted him to
24 fight either Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad?
25 A. I wanted him to fight Roy Jones or
2575
1 D. King-Cross
2 Felix Trinidad but not by a diabolical scene. Mr.
3 Bernard would have been making more money if he
4 fought Oscar or Trinidad, he would have made $15
5 million fighting for me.
6 So now you've got to understand what
7 I'm trying to do is make some money, but in the
8 meantime I'm protecting his title. In fact I got
9 Acaries to do what I've been saying every day in
10 here, to step aside without a lot of bombast or
11 fanfare. You can get it done, and Bernard has
12 learned very well because he's getting it done
13 now without me after leaning on me and learning
14 and using my teaching to do it.
15 Q. So this paragraph you are telling me
16 now didn't have anything to do with the fact that
17 you weren't keeping Mr. Joseph advised about what
18 was going on at the WBC with regard to Mr.
19 Hopkins' mandatory, right?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. I don't even
22 understand that question.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't either.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
25 Q. You wanted -- this paragraph that we
2576
1 D. King-Cross
2 just talked about wasn't for the protection of
3 Bernard Hopkins, was it?
4 A. Yes, it was.
5 Q. The one that says that if he refuses
6 to fight Betare, then Trinidad gets the chance to
7 fight Betare? That was for Bernard's protection?
8 A. No. You've got to understand that
9 Trinidad --
10 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is no.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. That was for Trinidad's
13 protection?
14 A. No. It's for the right thing as to
15 what it is. Trinidad is the number one
16 contender, without me even putting that in there,
17 that would automatically go, so what I do is
18 reduce it to writing with the organizational
19 structure. He's already number one, if he didn't
20 fight, they would have to fight anyway. One and
21 two would fight for the vacant title.
22 Q. All right. So you didn't need it in
23 there at all, did you?
24 A. Yes, I did, because I didn't want the
25 Frenchmen to come back on lobbying the WBC and
2577
1 D. King-Cross
2 being absentminded about what they had agreed to.
3 So in the harmony and the spirit of good working
4 together, we put it down. It is nothing but what
5 would have happened anyway according to the rules
6 and regulations, but we didn't want them to come
7 back and say for any reason, that I never agreed
8 to this. I want to do something, I want to get
9 an exception. So you put it right there so you
10 have it. At least if you get an exception,
11 you've got to get it with my approval.
12 Q. Okay, now let's see. Now you just
13 told me that you never told Mr. Hopkins about
14 this step-aside agreement, right?
15 A. I don't know whether I did or not. I
16 was very -- doing a lot of things with Mr.
17 Hopkins, but the more I learned, as I was
18 learning going down the line everything that I
19 said to that team somehow ended up in a betrayal
20 of some sort, but I can't say truthfully that I
21 did or didn't, but I didn't have to.
22 Q. At the same time that this was going
23 on are you complaining about Mr. Hopkins
24 interfering with the sanctioning organizations?
25 A. Yes.
2578
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So didn't all you had to do was write
3 a letter to Mr. Joseph saying don't worry about
4 the WBC, I have a step-aside agreement and leave
5 him alone and we have taken care of it?
6 A. I did tell him that.
7 Q. Did you write him a letter?
8 A. I don't write letters, but I certainly
9 told him until his ears burned. I went over it
10 incessantly. That is what is so frustrating and
11 exasperating, incessantly.
12 Q. Did you tell him you had a step-aside
13 agreement?
14 A. I said leave the organizations to me.
15 I do not have to tell the man what I'm doing and
16 how I'm doing it and why I'm doing it. I've been
17 doing it alone. He just came in off the street.
18 I'm trying to teach him along with Bernard but he
19 is not teachable.
20 Q. Okay. Let's change subjects a little
21 bit because I am absolutely going to move along,
22 and Mr. King, please, just keep yourself confined
23 to the question.
24 A. I am trying, Mr. Olin.
25 Q. Now I want to talk about Mr. Joseph's
2579
1 D. King-Cross
2 attempts to get information from you. You would
3 agree with me that shortly -- that the first
4 three bouts went off relatively uneventfully,
5 Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Those were anticipated when you
8 entered into the agreement. You knew there was
9 going to be a first bout. You knew there was
10 going to be a second bout. And you already had
11 promised the IBF that the third bout was going to
12 be their mandatory. And all three of those
13 happened and everybody was happy?
14 A. It went through four bouts, not three.
15 Not two.
16 Q. Including -- I am only talking about
17 Mr. Hopkins' bouts.
18 A. You had a tournament and so everybody
19 had waived their rights because of my negotiation
20 to allow these fighters to fight for an ultimate
21 unified championship, and we did that, and it
22 wasn't no problem with that. And even in that
23 agreement Arnold Joseph said even if he lost one
24 belt, he would still get paid and I agreed with
25 that even if he lost one of the belts in case the
2580
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization would betray what they agreed with
3 us on, and they would take the belt, I agreed
4 without that belt I would pay him the same amount
5 of money.
6 Q. Mr. King, I didn't ask you anything
7 about that.
8 A. I just wanted to explain.
9 I am finished. Thank you very much.
10 Q. Okay. Now starting in December of
11 2001, about two months before the Daniels bout,
12 would you agree with me because I want to -- I'm
13 trying to shorten this up, that Mr. Joseph wrote
14 you several letters telling you essentially Mr.
15 Hopkins is an active guy, he wants to be informed
16 about his career. He wants to participate in the
17 decisions about his career. We want to know what
18 you're doing for him. Please keep us advised.
19 Letters to that effect?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. OLIN: Just for the record, I'm
23 talking about Exhibits 19, 33, 44 and 108.
24 MR. BURSTEIN: This is why we're going
25 to be here forever, Mike.
2581
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. OLIN: I'm not going to go over
3 them now.
4 Q. That he asked for that. Okay. But
5 let's talk about what he didn't know. No copies
6 of the HBO agreements were ever sent to him other
7 than that very first term sheet, correct?
8 A. I don't know. I would say yes.
9 Q. Okay. There is no record that the
10 Betare step-aside agreement was ever sent to him,
11 is there?
12 A. No.
13 Q. There is no record that the Daniels
14 purse bid was ever sent to him, is there?
15 A. What do you mean? I don't know what
16 you mean when you say purse bid.
17 Q. The fact that there was a purse bid.
18 A. He knew. He was on the phone with me
19 when the bid was taken up.
20 Q. Daniels?
21 A. Daniels. He was on the phone. They
22 knew. There was a public auction. I was talking
23 to him and Bernard. They knew it was going to be
24 a purse bid. Bernard was closer with the IBF
25 than I am. Everything that goes in the IBF, he's
2582
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2 been their champion for the longest. He knew
3 that.
4 Q. They didn't know that you had asked to
5 have the Hakkar purse bid?
6 A. That I had asked?
7 Q. That you submitted a bid. They didn't
8 know that you --
9 A. No, no, no, I didn't ask, but listen,
10 I submitted a bid. If any purse bids come up, I
11 submit bids to all of them if I think it's worthy
12 and it's my fighter. But I did not call nor did
13 I send nor did I request a purse bid. I have bid
14 it in the process.
15 Q. Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we have been
17 through this point.
18 MR. OLIN: I think we have.
19 Q. You didn't keep him advised. I think
20 you said it and Ms. Jamison said it, you didn't
21 keep him advised about what you were doing with
22 the sanctioning organizations on his behalf, did
23 you?
24 A. I didn't tell him what I was doing
25 with the sanctioning body.
2583
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You heard Ms. Jamison say it was none
3 of his business?
4 A. That is true, but the fact of the
5 matter is I said to him I would tell him, let me
6 handle this. Please don't interfere. Not once,
7 not twice but incessantly because he was writing
8 letters after letters after letters and everybody
9 was afraid of him. You couldn't get nothing done
10 because everybody was afraid of Arnold Joseph and
11 Bernard, what they were doing to do or say, and
12 so therefore you left us all in a very precarious
13 and untenable position.
14 MR. OLIN: Okay. I have a notebook
15 that I have already disclosed to Mr.
16 Burstein which we will submit to the panel
17 that has in it by sanctioning organization
18 correspondence that when you go through it
19 shows who was writing about the
20 correspondence to whom and who was getting
21 copies and who was not getting copies. I'm
22 not going to go through that with Mr. King.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: No objection to it
24 being submitted.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: We will receive that.
2584
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Mr. King, did you have a chance to
3 look at that notebook?
4 A. What notebook?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: You told me not to show
6 it to him.
7 MR. OLIN: Okay.
8 Q. You have not seen the notebook of the
9 sanctions organizations? Okay.
10 Now, you also got a letter from Mr.
11 Joseph asking what your plans were for Mr.
12 Hopkins for 2003? Do you remember that Exhibit
13 103?
14 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede that he
15 did.
16 Q. And you didn't respond to that,
17 correct?
18 A. I don't write letters. But I talk to
19 Arnold all the time. I even missed a meeting
20 that we had with Arnold and his wife.
21 Q. All right, I want to talk about
22 something else that happened --
23 A. And Bernard.
24 Q. I want to talk about something else
25 that happened that you didn't tell Mr. Joseph
2585
1 D. King-Cross
2 about. Take a look at Exhibit 115 if you would.
3 Do you see that?
4 MR. BURSTEIN: 115?
5 MR. OLIN: Yes. It's a request for a
6 purse bid, July 15.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
8 MR. OLIN: That is the one. Okay?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
10 Q. That is Mr. Joseph's letter to the
11 WBA, right, about a purse bid for Mr. Joppy,
12 correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. He sent a copy of that to you, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. In fact, we know this is your copy of
17 it because it has got your Bates stamp down at
18 the bottom, right?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
20 Q. Okay. Now take a look at Exhibit 116.
21 This is the announcement of the purse bid, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. It schedules the purse bid for July
24 26, 2003. Do you see that?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
2586
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. In Miami. And if you look up above,
3 the first name on the receipt list is Arnold
4 Joseph. You got that?
5 A. He called for it.
6 Q. I understand, but he got a copy of it
7 so he would know when it was.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And of course Don King Productions is
10 on there as well, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Now following that, take a look
13 at number 117.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: For some reason the
15 book I have that you gave me goes from 116
16 to 118.
17 MR. OLIN: Try another one.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Let me try another
19 book.
20 Here is 117.
21 Q. Now in 117, Dana Jamison, who is in
22 charge of this sort of stuff, right?
23 A. Um-hum.
24 Q. She is writing a letter to Mr.
25 Bagnariol asking him to put off the purse
2587
1 D. King-Cross
2 agreement, isn't she?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you send a copy of that to Mr.
5 Joseph?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Again it is none of his business?
8 A. Mr. Joseph usurped my authority and my
9 rights by going to these organizations and
10 calling for the purse bid. That's the problem.
11 Q. Is it none of his business, Mr. King?
12 A. It is not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. It is not. It is not.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. He calls --
17 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is it is
18 not.
19 A. It is not.
20 Q. In that same tab there is a 117-A --
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Do you have that?
22 Q. Which is the revised July 24
23 announcement of a purse bid.
24 MR. OLIN: It should be right after
25 the document.
2588
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. BURSTEIN: No, all we have is some
3 fax.
4 MR. OLIN: Keep going.
5 MR. BURSTEIN: We just have fax cover
6 sheets.
7 Q. Apparently in response to your letter
8 of July 22, on July 24 the WBA resets the purse
9 agreement -- the purse bid, right?
10 MR. BURSTEIN: I object to
11 "apparently" in response to your letter.
12 MR. OLIN: Forget the "apparently."
13 Q. On July 24 they reset the purse
14 agreement?
15 MR. BURSTEIN: I concede that.
16 MR. OLIN: Okay.
17 Q. Right?
18 A. I guess.
19 Q. Now, look at the names on the list of
20 recipients here and compare it to the list of
21 recipients on Exhibit 116.
22 A. On 116, against all the rules and
23 regulations of the bout, Arnold Joseph, a lawyer
24 for a fighter that I have under exclusive
25 promotion agreement, and the promoter
2589
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization calls for a purse bid, and so
3 naturally since he called for this purse bid they
4 honored and respected him to send a --
5 MR. BURSTEIN: All they are asking you
6 is what is the difference between the two.
7 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
8 A. Arnold Joseph is not on there.
9 Q. On the second one?
10 A. On the second one.
11 Q. He is on the first one but not the
12 second one?
13 A. On the second one they responded to
14 his letters.
15 Q. Of course, he had no idea that they
16 had changed the purse bid because you didn't even
17 tell him that you had asked for it to be changed?
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Objection as to whether
19 or not he has an idea.
20 THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. King may not know
21 whether Mr. Joseph had any idea.
22 A. I didn't know he had an idea of
23 sending a letter in the first place. He didn't
24 tell me. He sent a letter and sent me a c.c. Now
25 I didn't know he was going to ask for no purse
2590
1 D. King-Cross
2 bid. If he had told me beforehand, I would have
3 said no, don't do that. Let's put our heads
4 together and do what we got to do. No, he sent
5 the letter and then sent me in hindsight that he
6 had did it. Now why should I send him a letter.
7 Q. Now you know, don't you, Mr. King,
8 that because of the failure to communicate, Mr.
9 Joseph and Mr. Hopkins traveled to Miami on July
10 26 to go to the purse bid that didn't happen
11 because you asked for it to be continued, don't
12 you?
13 A. I don't know anything about that.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: You know what, I'll do
15 it on redirect.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: Good idea.
17 Q. Look at Exhibit 121. You have it?
18 That is Mr. Joseph's letter again to the WBA
19 saying that he accepts the results of the purse
20 bid. You have got that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. It means the bout according to the
23 purchases bid is supposed to take place no later
24 than November 1 from an August 2nd, 90 days,
25 November 1?
thehype
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2 Q. That's all I'm asking you. You wanted
3 Tito to have a chance to get his belts or a belt
4 back?
5 A. I wanted him to fight Bernard Hopkins
6 because that served both. If Bernard beat him
7 twice, then that's nothing more could say because
8 I told Tito when he signed to fight in the
9 tournament that Bernard if he should win would
10 give him a return match like everybody else does
11 on the big fights and he didn't. He breached
12 that agreement.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 43.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Any particular point?
15 Q. You recognize Exhibit 43 as a
16 step-aside agreement that you had with Michele
17 Acaries in February 2002 -- oh, I'm sorry --
18 signed by you, Mr. Acaries and by Mr. Sulaiman,
19 who was the --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- president of the WBC?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. You never told Mr. Hopkins
24 about this, did you?
25 A. It wasn't necessary to tell Mr.
2573
1 D. King-Cross
2 Hopkins.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is yes or
4 no.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Now there is a curious
7 paragraph in this step-aside that I would like
8 you to look at. The last paragraph. Would you
9 read it?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now that paragraph seems to indicate
12 that -- it doesn't seem to indicate, it does
13 indicate that you are trying to make a deal with
14 Mr. Sulaiman for the WBC and Mr. Acaries that if
15 for any reason Mr. Hopkins ends up losing or
16 getting stripped of or refusing his title or
17 refusing to fight Mr. Betare, that Mr. Trinidad
18 will step in and fight Mr. Betare who was a
19 nobody, as you described him, for the vacant WBC
20 file, doesn't it?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It doesn't say that?
23 A. It says that, but I'm saying what you
24 are saying, you've got to put it into context
25 with your tricky questions. If you just ask me
2574
1 D. King-Cross
2 what it is, I'll explain it to you, but it is
3 nothing in this agreement that has any kind of
4 way -- let might just say at the outset, it says
5 if Bernard refuses to fight Betare, you know,
6 then DKP and AB Stars will negotiate in good
7 faith for the Trinidad-Betare vacant title. This
8 is what you must understand.
9 If he don't find, it is going to be
10 there, but I was negotiating with Acaries in
11 protection of Bernard's right to get a step-aside
12 so Bernard could fight, if he chose to honor his
13 agreement he could fight Trinidad.
14 You know what I mean, now if he said
15 he didn't want to fight Betare, then he would
16 have a problem with the purse bid coming up. So
17 I'm way down the line way before it even gets
18 there, I'm trying to walk him through the path so
19 we don't get caught up with these type of things
20 with no purse bid. This agreement is a
21 step-aside agreement.
22 Q. And you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to
23 fight Betare at this time, you wanted him to
24 fight either Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad?
25 A. I wanted him to fight Roy Jones or
2575
1 D. King-Cross
2 Felix Trinidad but not by a diabolical scene. Mr.
3 Bernard would have been making more money if he
4 fought Oscar or Trinidad, he would have made $15
5 million fighting for me.
6 So now you've got to understand what
7 I'm trying to do is make some money, but in the
8 meantime I'm protecting his title. In fact I got
9 Acaries to do what I've been saying every day in
10 here, to step aside without a lot of bombast or
11 fanfare. You can get it done, and Bernard has
12 learned very well because he's getting it done
13 now without me after leaning on me and learning
14 and using my teaching to do it.
15 Q. So this paragraph you are telling me
16 now didn't have anything to do with the fact that
17 you weren't keeping Mr. Joseph advised about what
18 was going on at the WBC with regard to Mr.
19 Hopkins' mandatory, right?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. I don't even
22 understand that question.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't either.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
25 Q. You wanted -- this paragraph that we
2576
1 D. King-Cross
2 just talked about wasn't for the protection of
3 Bernard Hopkins, was it?
4 A. Yes, it was.
5 Q. The one that says that if he refuses
6 to fight Betare, then Trinidad gets the chance to
7 fight Betare? That was for Bernard's protection?
8 A. No. You've got to understand that
9 Trinidad --
10 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is no.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. That was for Trinidad's
13 protection?
14 A. No. It's for the right thing as to
15 what it is. Trinidad is the number one
16 contender, without me even putting that in there,
17 that would automatically go, so what I do is
18 reduce it to writing with the organizational
19 structure. He's already number one, if he didn't
20 fight, they would have to fight anyway. One and
21 two would fight for the vacant title.
22 Q. All right. So you didn't need it in
23 there at all, did you?
24 A. Yes, I did, because I didn't want the
25 Frenchmen to come back on lobbying the WBC and
2577
1 D. King-Cross
2 being absentminded about what they had agreed to.
3 So in the harmony and the spirit of good working
4 together, we put it down. It is nothing but what
5 would have happened anyway according to the rules
6 and regulations, but we didn't want them to come
7 back and say for any reason, that I never agreed
8 to this. I want to do something, I want to get
9 an exception. So you put it right there so you
10 have it. At least if you get an exception,
11 you've got to get it with my approval.
12 Q. Okay, now let's see. Now you just
13 told me that you never told Mr. Hopkins about
14 this step-aside agreement, right?
15 A. I don't know whether I did or not. I
16 was very -- doing a lot of things with Mr.
17 Hopkins, but the more I learned, as I was
18 learning going down the line everything that I
19 said to that team somehow ended up in a betrayal
20 of some sort, but I can't say truthfully that I
21 did or didn't, but I didn't have to.
22 Q. At the same time that this was going
23 on are you complaining about Mr. Hopkins
24 interfering with the sanctioning organizations?
25 A. Yes.
2578
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So didn't all you had to do was write
3 a letter to Mr. Joseph saying don't worry about
4 the WBC, I have a step-aside agreement and leave
5 him alone and we have taken care of it?
6 A. I did tell him that.
7 Q. Did you write him a letter?
8 A. I don't write letters, but I certainly
9 told him until his ears burned. I went over it
10 incessantly. That is what is so frustrating and
11 exasperating, incessantly.
12 Q. Did you tell him you had a step-aside
13 agreement?
14 A. I said leave the organizations to me.
15 I do not have to tell the man what I'm doing and
16 how I'm doing it and why I'm doing it. I've been
17 doing it alone. He just came in off the street.
18 I'm trying to teach him along with Bernard but he
19 is not teachable.
20 Q. Okay. Let's change subjects a little
21 bit because I am absolutely going to move along,
22 and Mr. King, please, just keep yourself confined
23 to the question.
24 A. I am trying, Mr. Olin.
25 Q. Now I want to talk about Mr. Joseph's
2579
1 D. King-Cross
2 attempts to get information from you. You would
3 agree with me that shortly -- that the first
4 three bouts went off relatively uneventfully,
5 Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Those were anticipated when you
8 entered into the agreement. You knew there was
9 going to be a first bout. You knew there was
10 going to be a second bout. And you already had
11 promised the IBF that the third bout was going to
12 be their mandatory. And all three of those
13 happened and everybody was happy?
14 A. It went through four bouts, not three.
15 Not two.
16 Q. Including -- I am only talking about
17 Mr. Hopkins' bouts.
18 A. You had a tournament and so everybody
19 had waived their rights because of my negotiation
20 to allow these fighters to fight for an ultimate
21 unified championship, and we did that, and it
22 wasn't no problem with that. And even in that
23 agreement Arnold Joseph said even if he lost one
24 belt, he would still get paid and I agreed with
25 that even if he lost one of the belts in case the
2580
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization would betray what they agreed with
3 us on, and they would take the belt, I agreed
4 without that belt I would pay him the same amount
5 of money.
6 Q. Mr. King, I didn't ask you anything
7 about that.
8 A. I just wanted to explain.
9 I am finished. Thank you very much.
10 Q. Okay. Now starting in December of
11 2001, about two months before the Daniels bout,
12 would you agree with me because I want to -- I'm
13 trying to shorten this up, that Mr. Joseph wrote
14 you several letters telling you essentially Mr.
15 Hopkins is an active guy, he wants to be informed
16 about his career. He wants to participate in the
17 decisions about his career. We want to know what
18 you're doing for him. Please keep us advised.
19 Letters to that effect?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. OLIN: Just for the record, I'm
23 talking about Exhibits 19, 33, 44 and 108.
24 MR. BURSTEIN: This is why we're going
25 to be here forever, Mike.
2581
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. OLIN: I'm not going to go over
3 them now.
4 Q. That he asked for that. Okay. But
5 let's talk about what he didn't know. No copies
6 of the HBO agreements were ever sent to him other
7 than that very first term sheet, correct?
8 A. I don't know. I would say yes.
9 Q. Okay. There is no record that the
10 Betare step-aside agreement was ever sent to him,
11 is there?
12 A. No.
13 Q. There is no record that the Daniels
14 purse bid was ever sent to him, is there?
15 A. What do you mean? I don't know what
16 you mean when you say purse bid.
17 Q. The fact that there was a purse bid.
18 A. He knew. He was on the phone with me
19 when the bid was taken up.
20 Q. Daniels?
21 A. Daniels. He was on the phone. They
22 knew. There was a public auction. I was talking
23 to him and Bernard. They knew it was going to be
24 a purse bid. Bernard was closer with the IBF
25 than I am. Everything that goes in the IBF, he's
2582
1 D. King-Cross
2 been their champion for the longest. He knew
3 that.
4 Q. They didn't know that you had asked to
5 have the Hakkar purse bid?
6 A. That I had asked?
7 Q. That you submitted a bid. They didn't
8 know that you --
9 A. No, no, no, I didn't ask, but listen,
10 I submitted a bid. If any purse bids come up, I
11 submit bids to all of them if I think it's worthy
12 and it's my fighter. But I did not call nor did
13 I send nor did I request a purse bid. I have bid
14 it in the process.
15 Q. Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we have been
17 through this point.
18 MR. OLIN: I think we have.
19 Q. You didn't keep him advised. I think
20 you said it and Ms. Jamison said it, you didn't
21 keep him advised about what you were doing with
22 the sanctioning organizations on his behalf, did
23 you?
24 A. I didn't tell him what I was doing
25 with the sanctioning body.
2583
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. You heard Ms. Jamison say it was none
3 of his business?
4 A. That is true, but the fact of the
5 matter is I said to him I would tell him, let me
6 handle this. Please don't interfere. Not once,
7 not twice but incessantly because he was writing
8 letters after letters after letters and everybody
9 was afraid of him. You couldn't get nothing done
10 because everybody was afraid of Arnold Joseph and
11 Bernard, what they were doing to do or say, and
12 so therefore you left us all in a very precarious
13 and untenable position.
14 MR. OLIN: Okay. I have a notebook
15 that I have already disclosed to Mr.
16 Burstein which we will submit to the panel
17 that has in it by sanctioning organization
18 correspondence that when you go through it
19 shows who was writing about the
20 correspondence to whom and who was getting
21 copies and who was not getting copies. I'm
22 not going to go through that with Mr. King.
23 MR. BURSTEIN: No objection to it
24 being submitted.
25 THE CHAIRMAN: We will receive that.
2584
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. Mr. King, did you have a chance to
3 look at that notebook?
4 A. What notebook?
5 MR. BURSTEIN: You told me not to show
6 it to him.
7 MR. OLIN: Okay.
8 Q. You have not seen the notebook of the
9 sanctions organizations? Okay.
10 Now, you also got a letter from Mr.
11 Joseph asking what your plans were for Mr.
12 Hopkins for 2003? Do you remember that Exhibit
13 103?
14 MR. BURSTEIN: I will concede that he
15 did.
16 Q. And you didn't respond to that,
17 correct?
18 A. I don't write letters. But I talk to
19 Arnold all the time. I even missed a meeting
20 that we had with Arnold and his wife.
21 Q. All right, I want to talk about
22 something else that happened --
23 A. And Bernard.
24 Q. I want to talk about something else
25 that happened that you didn't tell Mr. Joseph
2585
1 D. King-Cross
2 about. Take a look at Exhibit 115 if you would.
3 Do you see that?
4 MR. BURSTEIN: 115?
5 MR. OLIN: Yes. It's a request for a
6 purse bid, July 15.
7 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
8 MR. OLIN: That is the one. Okay?
9 MR. BURSTEIN: Yes.
10 Q. That is Mr. Joseph's letter to the
11 WBA, right, about a purse bid for Mr. Joppy,
12 correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. He sent a copy of that to you, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. In fact, we know this is your copy of
17 it because it has got your Bates stamp down at
18 the bottom, right?
19 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
20 Q. Okay. Now take a look at Exhibit 116.
21 This is the announcement of the purse bid, right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. It schedules the purse bid for July
24 26, 2003. Do you see that?
25 MR. BURSTEIN: Conceded.
2586
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. In Miami. And if you look up above,
3 the first name on the receipt list is Arnold
4 Joseph. You got that?
5 A. He called for it.
6 Q. I understand, but he got a copy of it
7 so he would know when it was.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And of course Don King Productions is
10 on there as well, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. Now following that, take a look
13 at number 117.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: For some reason the
15 book I have that you gave me goes from 116
16 to 118.
17 MR. OLIN: Try another one.
18 MR. BURSTEIN: Let me try another
19 book.
20 Here is 117.
21 Q. Now in 117, Dana Jamison, who is in
22 charge of this sort of stuff, right?
23 A. Um-hum.
24 Q. She is writing a letter to Mr.
25 Bagnariol asking him to put off the purse
2587
1 D. King-Cross
2 agreement, isn't she?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you send a copy of that to Mr.
5 Joseph?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Again it is none of his business?
8 A. Mr. Joseph usurped my authority and my
9 rights by going to these organizations and
10 calling for the purse bid. That's the problem.
11 Q. Is it none of his business, Mr. King?
12 A. It is not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. It is not. It is not.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. He calls --
17 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is it is
18 not.
19 A. It is not.
20 Q. In that same tab there is a 117-A --
21 MR. BURSTEIN: Do you have that?
22 Q. Which is the revised July 24
23 announcement of a purse bid.
24 MR. OLIN: It should be right after
25 the document.
thehype
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1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. That's all I'm asking you. You wanted
3 Tito to have a chance to get his belts or a belt
4 back?
5 A. I wanted him to fight Bernard Hopkins
6 because that served both. If Bernard beat him
7 twice, then that's nothing more could say because
8 I told Tito when he signed to fight in the
9 tournament that Bernard if he should win would
10 give him a return match like everybody else does
11 on the big fights and he didn't. He breached
12 that agreement.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 43.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Any particular point?
15 Q. You recognize Exhibit 43 as a
16 step-aside agreement that you had with Michele
17 Acaries in February 2002 -- oh, I'm sorry --
18 signed by you, Mr. Acaries and by Mr. Sulaiman,
19 who was the --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- president of the WBC?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. You never told Mr. Hopkins
24 about this, did you?
25 A. It wasn't necessary to tell Mr.
2573
1 D. King-Cross
2 Hopkins.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is yes or
4 no.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Now there is a curious
7 paragraph in this step-aside that I would like
8 you to look at. The last paragraph. Would you
9 read it?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now that paragraph seems to indicate
12 that -- it doesn't seem to indicate, it does
13 indicate that you are trying to make a deal with
14 Mr. Sulaiman for the WBC and Mr. Acaries that if
15 for any reason Mr. Hopkins ends up losing or
16 getting stripped of or refusing his title or
17 refusing to fight Mr. Betare, that Mr. Trinidad
18 will step in and fight Mr. Betare who was a
19 nobody, as you described him, for the vacant WBC
20 file, doesn't it?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It doesn't say that?
23 A. It says that, but I'm saying what you
24 are saying, you've got to put it into context
25 with your tricky questions. If you just ask me
2574
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2 what it is, I'll explain it to you, but it is
3 nothing in this agreement that has any kind of
4 way -- let might just say at the outset, it says
5 if Bernard refuses to fight Betare, you know,
6 then DKP and AB Stars will negotiate in good
7 faith for the Trinidad-Betare vacant title. This
8 is what you must understand.
9 If he don't find, it is going to be
10 there, but I was negotiating with Acaries in
11 protection of Bernard's right to get a step-aside
12 so Bernard could fight, if he chose to honor his
13 agreement he could fight Trinidad.
14 You know what I mean, now if he said
15 he didn't want to fight Betare, then he would
16 have a problem with the purse bid coming up. So
17 I'm way down the line way before it even gets
18 there, I'm trying to walk him through the path so
19 we don't get caught up with these type of things
20 with no purse bid. This agreement is a
21 step-aside agreement.
22 Q. And you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to
23 fight Betare at this time, you wanted him to
24 fight either Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad?
25 A. I wanted him to fight Roy Jones or
2575
1 D. King-Cross
2 Felix Trinidad but not by a diabolical scene. Mr.
3 Bernard would have been making more money if he
4 fought Oscar or Trinidad, he would have made $15
5 million fighting for me.
6 So now you've got to understand what
7 I'm trying to do is make some money, but in the
8 meantime I'm protecting his title. In fact I got
9 Acaries to do what I've been saying every day in
10 here, to step aside without a lot of bombast or
11 fanfare. You can get it done, and Bernard has
12 learned very well because he's getting it done
13 now without me after leaning on me and learning
14 and using my teaching to do it.
15 Q. So this paragraph you are telling me
16 now didn't have anything to do with the fact that
17 you weren't keeping Mr. Joseph advised about what
18 was going on at the WBC with regard to Mr.
19 Hopkins' mandatory, right?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. I don't even
22 understand that question.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't either.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
25 Q. You wanted -- this paragraph that we
2576
1 D. King-Cross
2 just talked about wasn't for the protection of
3 Bernard Hopkins, was it?
4 A. Yes, it was.
5 Q. The one that says that if he refuses
6 to fight Betare, then Trinidad gets the chance to
7 fight Betare? That was for Bernard's protection?
8 A. No. You've got to understand that
9 Trinidad --
10 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is no.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. That was for Trinidad's
13 protection?
14 A. No. It's for the right thing as to
15 what it is. Trinidad is the number one
16 contender, without me even putting that in there,
17 that would automatically go, so what I do is
18 reduce it to writing with the organizational
19 structure. He's already number one, if he didn't
20 fight, they would have to fight anyway. One and
21 two would fight for the vacant title.
22 Q. All right. So you didn't need it in
23 there at all, did you?
24 A. Yes, I did, because I didn't want the
25 Frenchmen to come back on lobbying the WBC and
2577
1 D. King-Cross
2 being absentminded about what they had agreed to.
3 So in the harmony and the spirit of good working
4 together, we put it down. It is nothing but what
5 would have happened anyway according to the rules
6 and regulations, but we didn't want them to come
7 back and say for any reason, that I never agreed
8 to this. I want to do something, I want to get
9 an exception. So you put it right there so you
10 have it. At least if you get an exception,
11 you've got to get it with my approval.
12 Q. Okay, now let's see. Now you just
13 told me that you never told Mr. Hopkins about
14 this step-aside agreement, right?
15 A. I don't know whether I did or not. I
16 was very -- doing a lot of things with Mr.
17 Hopkins, but the more I learned, as I was
18 learning going down the line everything that I
19 said to that team somehow ended up in a betrayal
20 of some sort, but I can't say truthfully that I
21 did or didn't, but I didn't have to.
22 Q. At the same time that this was going
23 on are you complaining about Mr. Hopkins
24 interfering with the sanctioning organizations?
25 A. Yes.
2578
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. So didn't all you had to do was write
3 a letter to Mr. Joseph saying don't worry about
4 the WBC, I have a step-aside agreement and leave
5 him alone and we have taken care of it?
6 A. I did tell him that.
7 Q. Did you write him a letter?
8 A. I don't write letters, but I certainly
9 told him until his ears burned. I went over it
10 incessantly. That is what is so frustrating and
11 exasperating, incessantly.
12 Q. Did you tell him you had a step-aside
13 agreement?
14 A. I said leave the organizations to me.
15 I do not have to tell the man what I'm doing and
16 how I'm doing it and why I'm doing it. I've been
17 doing it alone. He just came in off the street.
18 I'm trying to teach him along with Bernard but he
19 is not teachable.
20 Q. Okay. Let's change subjects a little
21 bit because I am absolutely going to move along,
22 and Mr. King, please, just keep yourself confined
23 to the question.
24 A. I am trying, Mr. Olin.
25 Q. Now I want to talk about Mr. Joseph's
2579
1 D. King-Cross
2 attempts to get information from you. You would
3 agree with me that shortly -- that the first
4 three bouts went off relatively uneventfully,
5 Holmes, Trinidad, Daniels, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Those were anticipated when you
8 entered into the agreement. You knew there was
9 going to be a first bout. You knew there was
10 going to be a second bout. And you already had
11 promised the IBF that the third bout was going to
12 be their mandatory. And all three of those
13 happened and everybody was happy?
14 A. It went through four bouts, not three.
15 Not two.
16 Q. Including -- I am only talking about
17 Mr. Hopkins' bouts.
18 A. You had a tournament and so everybody
19 had waived their rights because of my negotiation
20 to allow these fighters to fight for an ultimate
21 unified championship, and we did that, and it
22 wasn't no problem with that. And even in that
23 agreement Arnold Joseph said even if he lost one
24 belt, he would still get paid and I agreed with
25 that even if he lost one of the belts in case the
2580
1 D. King-Cross
2 organization would betray what they agreed with
3 us on, and they would take the belt, I agreed
4 without that belt I would pay him the same amount
5 of money.
6 Q. Mr. King, I didn't ask you anything
7 about that.
8 A. I just wanted to explain.
9 I am finished. Thank you very much.
10 Q. Okay. Now starting in December of
11 2001, about two months before the Daniels bout,
12 would you agree with me because I want to -- I'm
13 trying to shorten this up, that Mr. Joseph wrote
14 you several letters telling you essentially Mr.
15 Hopkins is an active guy, he wants to be informed
16 about his career. He wants to participate in the
17 decisions about his career. We want to know what
18 you're doing for him. Please keep us advised.
19 Letters to that effect?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. OLIN: Just for the record, I'm
23 talking about Exhibits 19, 33, 44 and 108.
24 MR. BURSTEIN: This is why we're going
25 to be here forever, Mike.
2581
1 D. King-Cross
2 MR. OLIN: I'm not going to go over
3 them now.
4 Q. That he asked for that. Okay. But
5 let's talk about what he didn't know. No copies
6 of the HBO agreements were ever sent to him other
7 than that very first term sheet, correct?
8 A. I don't know. I would say yes.
9 Q. Okay. There is no record that the
10 Betare step-aside agreement was ever sent to him,
11 is there?
12 A. No.
13 Q. There is no record that the Daniels
14 purse bid was ever sent to him, is there?
15 A. What do you mean? I don't know what
16 you mean when you say purse bid.
17 Q. The fact that there was a purse bid.
18 A. He knew. He was on the phone with me
19 when the bid was taken up.
20 Q. Daniels?
21 A. Daniels. He was on the phone. They
22 knew. There was a public auction. I was talking
23 to him and Bernard. They knew it was going to be
24 a purse bid. Bernard was closer with the IBF
25 than I am. Everything that goes in the IBF, he's
2582
1 D. King-Cross
2 been their champion for the longest. He knew
3 that.
4 Q. They didn't know that you had asked to
5 have the Hakkar purse bid?
6 A. That I had asked?
7 Q. That you submitted a bid. They didn't
8 know that you --
9 A. No, no, no, I didn't ask, but listen,
10 I submitted a bid. If any purse bids come up, I
11 submit bids to all of them if I think it's worthy
12 and it's my fighter. But I did not call nor did
13 I send nor did I request a purse bid. I have bid
14 it in the process.
15 Q. Okay.
16 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we have been
17 through this point.
18 MR. OLIN: I think we have.
19 Q. You didn't keep him advised. I think
20 you said it and Ms. Jamison said it, you didn't
21 keep him advised about what you were doing with
22 the sanctioning organizations on his behalf, did
23 you?
24 A. I didn't tell him what I was doing
25 with the sanctioning body.
thehype
2572
1 D. King-Cross
2 Q. That's all I'm asking you. You wanted
3 Tito to have a chance to get his belts or a belt
4 back?
5 A. I wanted him to fight Bernard Hopkins
6 because that served both. If Bernard beat him
7 twice, then that's nothing more could say because
8 I told Tito when he signed to fight in the
9 tournament that Bernard if he should win would
10 give him a return match like everybody else does
11 on the big fights and he didn't. He breached
12 that agreement.
13 Q. Okay. Take a look at Exhibit 43.
14 MR. BURSTEIN: Any particular point?
15 Q. You recognize Exhibit 43 as a
16 step-aside agreement that you had with Michele
17 Acaries in February 2002 -- oh, I'm sorry --
18 signed by you, Mr. Acaries and by Mr. Sulaiman,
19 who was the --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. -- president of the WBC?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Okay. You never told Mr. Hopkins
24 about this, did you?
25 A. It wasn't necessary to tell Mr.
2573
1 D. King-Cross
2 Hopkins.
3 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is yes or
4 no.
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Now there is a curious
7 paragraph in this step-aside that I would like
8 you to look at. The last paragraph. Would you
9 read it?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now that paragraph seems to indicate
12 that -- it doesn't seem to indicate, it does
13 indicate that you are trying to make a deal with
14 Mr. Sulaiman for the WBC and Mr. Acaries that if
15 for any reason Mr. Hopkins ends up losing or
16 getting stripped of or refusing his title or
17 refusing to fight Mr. Betare, that Mr. Trinidad
18 will step in and fight Mr. Betare who was a
19 nobody, as you described him, for the vacant WBC
20 file, doesn't it?
21 A. No.
22 Q. It doesn't say that?
23 A. It says that, but I'm saying what you
24 are saying, you've got to put it into context
25 with your tricky questions. If you just ask me
2574
1 D. King-Cross
2 what it is, I'll explain it to you, but it is
3 nothing in this agreement that has any kind of
4 way -- let might just say at the outset, it says
5 if Bernard refuses to fight Betare, you know,
6 then DKP and AB Stars will negotiate in good
7 faith for the Trinidad-Betare vacant title. This
8 is what you must understand.
9 If he don't find, it is going to be
10 there, but I was negotiating with Acaries in
11 protection of Bernard's right to get a step-aside
12 so Bernard could fight, if he chose to honor his
13 agreement he could fight Trinidad.
14 You know what I mean, now if he said
15 he didn't want to fight Betare, then he would
16 have a problem with the purse bid coming up. So
17 I'm way down the line way before it even gets
18 there, I'm trying to walk him through the path so
19 we don't get caught up with these type of things
20 with no purse bid. This agreement is a
21 step-aside agreement.
22 Q. And you didn't want Mr. Hopkins to
23 fight Betare at this time, you wanted him to
24 fight either Roy Jones or Felix Trinidad?
25 A. I wanted him to fight Roy Jones or
2575
1 D. King-Cross
2 Felix Trinidad but not by a diabolical scene. Mr.
3 Bernard would have been making more money if he
4 fought Oscar or Trinidad, he would have made $15
5 million fighting for me.
6 So now you've got to understand what
7 I'm trying to do is make some money, but in the
8 meantime I'm protecting his title. In fact I got
9 Acaries to do what I've been saying every day in
10 here, to step aside without a lot of bombast or
11 fanfare. You can get it done, and Bernard has
12 learned very well because he's getting it done
13 now without me after leaning on me and learning
14 and using my teaching to do it.
15 Q. So this paragraph you are telling me
16 now didn't have anything to do with the fact that
17 you weren't keeping Mr. Joseph advised about what
18 was going on at the WBC with regard to Mr.
19 Hopkins' mandatory, right?
20 A. No.
21 MR. BURSTEIN: I object. I don't even
22 understand that question.
23 THE WITNESS: I don't either.
24 THE CHAIRMAN: Sustained.
25 Q. You wanted -- this paragraph that we
2576
1 D. King-Cross
2 just talked about wasn't for the protection of
3 Bernard Hopkins, was it?
4 A. Yes, it was.
5 Q. The one that says that if he refuses
6 to fight Betare, then Trinidad gets the chance to
7 fight Betare? That was for Bernard's protection?
8 A. No. You've got to understand that
9 Trinidad --
10 MR. BURSTEIN: The answer is no.
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. That was for Trinidad's
13 protection?
14 A. No. It's for the right thing as to
15 what it is. Trinidad is the number one
16 contender, without me even putting that in there,
17 that would automatically go, so what I do is
18 reduce it to writing with the organizational
19 structure. He's already number one, if he didn't
20 fight, they would have to fight anyway. One and
21 two would fight for the vacant title.
22 Q. All right. So you didn't need it in
23 there at all, did you?
24 A. Yes, I did, because I didn't want the
25 Frenchmen to come back on lobbying the WBC and
2577
1 D. King-Cross
2 being absentminded about what they had agreed to.
3 So in the harmony and the spirit of good working
4 together, we put it down. It is nothing but what
5 would have happened anyway according to the rules
6 and regulations, but we didn't want them to come
7 back and say for any reason, that I never agreed
8 to this. I want to do something, I want to get
9 an exception. So you put it right there so you
10 have it. At least if you get an exception,
11 you've got to get it with my approval.
12 Q. Okay, now let's see. Now you just
13 told me that you never told Mr. Hopkins about
14 this step-aside agreement, right?
15 A. I don't know whether I did or not. I
16 was very -- doing a lot of things with Mr.
17 Hopkins, but the more I learned, as I was
18 learning going down the line everything that I
19 said to that team somehow ended up in a betrayal
20 of some sort, but I can't say truthfully that I
21 did or didn't, but I didn't have to.
22 Q. At the same time that this was going
23 on are you complaining about Mr. Hopkins
24 interfering with the sanctioning organizations?
25 A. Yes.
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