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Achille
I've been saying this for years, the reason why Jones lost his edge in boxing was killing himself trying to get back down to 175. Back then people were saying I was making excuses for RJJ. It doesn't take rocket science to know this, but seems like the hate for an athlete plauges more then logic with some people on these message boards.

QUOTE
What happened to Roy Jones when he went back down to light-heavyweight to fight Tarver after you had helped him move up and beat Ruiz for the heavyweight title?

You have to remember Roy is such a talented athlete. The muscle that was put on is very difficult to take off. It was a very tough fight. Draining to anyone but he ended up winning. The same thing happended to Tarver when he did the Rocky movie. He was in the 220s then he came down and he was compromised against Bernard. I would have liked to see Roy stay at heavyweight, and I told him that. I think Roy would have beaten Tyson. I think Roy would have beaten Holyfield, but the fights weren't there. Muscle is not easy to take off, it affects your immune system.


How much did Roy weigh for the Ruiz fight?

200 lbs.


There was a story circulating he had weights in his pocket and he really weighed 193.

Before we went down for the weigh-in we were all kidding what Roy would weigh. Roy had been in the range of 199-200. What happned was Roy got on the scale and a fight broke out between Alton Merkerson and Ruiz's camp. Mark Ratner who was doing the weigh-in never let the scale adjust because the fight had broke out. I know Mark, and told him that's not his weight you should correct it. When Roy went to the hotel room and got on the scale he was laughing and saying "I can't believe it". He takes his shirt off and steps on the scale, and this is on the documentary ESPN did called "The Sweet Science". Mark Ratner was there too. I told him to call HBO so they wouldn't think it was rebound weight and they mentioned that on the broadcast


You can read the rest at Boxing**** interview is very informative.
KingEugene
Thank you thank you thank you...now hopefully it will shut some of these RJJ haters up. But I doubt it.
Achille
QUOTE(KingEugene @ Jun 12 2008, 08:35 PM) [snapback]392426[/snapback]
Thank you thank you thank you...now hopefully it will shut some of these RJJ haters up. But I doubt it.


I agree it should shut them up because Makie trained Hopkins to bulk up for Tarver so he knows the deal all around.
thehype
LOL.

I see.

So Tarver's left hand had nothing to do with it then?

laugh.gif

QUOTE

ex∑cuse
Pronunciation: \ik-ˈskyŁs\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1: the act of excusing
2 a: something offered as justification or as grounds for being excused bplural : an expression of regret for failure to do something c: a note of explanation of an absence




Achille
Tarver got a nice shot in but we all know pre-Ruiz Jones would of reacted better to that shot then what we saw that night.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Achille @ Jun 12 2008, 09:11 PM) [snapback]392429[/snapback]
Tarver got a nice shot in but we all know pre-Ruiz Jones would of reacted better to that shot then what we saw that night.

I agree! Tarver would have given Roy problems at any stage of his career but that left hand that landed that night would not have landed 2 years earlier.

Weight loss is a killer and we have seen often over the years.
thehype
QUOTE(Achille @ Jun 12 2008, 09:11 PM) [snapback]392429[/snapback]
Tarver got a nice shot in but we all know pre-Ruiz Jones would of reacted better to that shot then what we saw that night.


He would have? Says who? How exactly do you judge how well someone would have reacted to a knockout punch before or after a particular fight?

dntknw.gif

thehype
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 12 2008, 09:22 PM) [snapback]392431[/snapback]
I agree! Tarver would have given Roy problems at any stage of his career but that left hand that landed that night would not have landed 2 years earlier.

Weight loss is a killer and we have seen often over the years.


I disagree. You're making an assumption that the weight loss was the problem. For all we know, age could have been just as much of a factor. More than likely, a younger Roy would have had the reflexes to pull away from that punch faster...an older Roy however, with slower reflexes, wasn't able to get away this time. That's not necessarily a matter of the weight loss...he's just not as quick as he once was so guys who, in the past, would miss him with their punches are now able to connect. Tarver connected, Johnson connected...even Prince Badi Ajamu, Anthony Hanshaw and Felix Trinidad were able to connect a lot more than they would have been able to had they fought Jones in his prime. So is it really the weight loss or just a matter of him getting old?

dntknw.gif
Achille
Well after the move down Roy was a lot more flat footed, then he was in his previous fights at LHW, his reaction time and reflexes were better back then too which gave him his edge in boxing. Once he dropped weight all that left him, even if you watch the KO by Tarver, you can see RJJ cleary putting the glove to guard himself but his reaction and timing was off. Something thats never really been a problem with him until his lost the weight HW to LHW.
D-MARV
QUOTE(thehype @ Jun 12 2008, 09:27 PM) [snapback]392434[/snapback]
I disagree. You're making an assumption that the weight loss was the problem. For all we know, age could have been just as much of a factor. More than likely, a younger Roy would have had the reflexes to pull away from that punch faster...an older Roy however, with slower reflexes, wasn't able to get away this time. That's not necessarily a matter of the weight loss...he's just not as quick as he once was so guys who, in the past, would miss him with their punches are now able to connect. Tarver connected, Johnson connected...even Prince Badi Ajamu, Anthony Hanshaw and Felix Trinidad were able to connect a lot more than they would have been able to had they fought Jones in his prime. So is it really the weight loss or just a matter of him getting old?

dntknw.gif

I agree with what your saying.
What I was trying to say was that the KO loss to Tarver was a combination of both, weight Loss and age. I wont say that the weight loss was the only problem but it was part of it. Sudden weight loss does alot to your body and you can see the effects they have on fighters.
thehype
QUOTE(Achille @ Jun 12 2008, 09:32 PM) [snapback]392436[/snapback]
Well after the move down Roy was a lot more flat footed, then he was in his previous fights at LHW, his reaction time and reflexes were better back then too which gave him his edge in boxing. Once he dropped weight all that left him, even if you watch the KO by Tarver, you can see RJJ cleary putting the glove to guard himself but his reaction and timing was off. Something thats never really been a problem with him until his lost the weight HW to LHW.


But you can't necessarily attribute his flat-footedness to the weight loss. Historically, when a fighter isn't using his legs as much, it's got more to do with the fact that they're getting old as opposed to them losing weight. Same with reaction time. And honestly, I really don't think that started right when he dropped the weight. Well before the Tarver fight, Roy had gotten into the habit of laying on the ropes and resting...basically allowing his opponents to punch on his arms while he looked for openings to potshot to the body. This wasn't a problem that just all of a sudden started when he lost weight. Technically speaking, Roy has never been that great at defense...he was just so fast with his reflexes that he could play keep away from his opponents. As he got older, he relied less on his legs and more on his ability to work off the ropes as he used the exact same tactic of putting his gloves up to guard himself against the likes of Clinton Woods, Glen Kelly, Julio Gonzalez and others...a lot of guys BEFORE the move up in weight.

Besides that, he fought Ruiz in March and Tarver in November. That gave him eight months to take the weight off...which is more than the six months it took him to pack it on (September, 2002 he fought Clinton Woods at 175 lbs....March, 2003 he fought Ruiz at 200 lbs.). Personally, I think it's even more suspect that he was able to put on that much muscle in just six months...but hey...that's a different story. But like I said, he had eight months to lose the weight. Of course, he did look HORRIBLE and drained in that first fight with Tarver, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that it WAS tough for him to drop back down. Okay...well he didn't fight Tarver again for another six months...so basically, that gave him a full 14 months to move from 200 lbs. back down to 175 lbs. Of course, it's kind of tough to know if the weight loss played a roll in that fight since the fight was over before it really got started. Four months later, he fights Johnson...now he's had 18 months to get back to 175...once again, another knockout loss. Next he fights Tarver a full year after the Johnson fight...now we're talking 30 months to get back right at 175...he still looked flat-footed and his reflexes still looked a lot slower...at this point, I really don't think weight loss has anything to do with it. Nine months later (or 39 months removed from the Ruiz fight), he fights Ajamu and he still looks flat and he still backs up to the ropes using that horrible defense...again, I don't think weight loss had anything to do with that. A year later (now 51 months since his fight at heavyweight), he fights Hanshaw...a better performance from Roy, but certainly not the Roy Jones of old as even Anthony Hanshaw was able to touch him. Six months later (now 57 months removed from the heavyweight fight), he "returns to form" against Trinidad, a guy coming off a 2-year layoff himself who was probably fighting two divisions higher than he should be. Trinidad was able to touch Roy too, but fortunately, Roy, who was fighting at his lightest weight in nearly 12 years, was able to take the punches from the much smaller man with no problem.

Sorry, but I'm just really having hard time buying into the whole weight loss excuse (because let's be honest, it is an excuse). Roy just got old...simple as that...no excuse, just a fact of life...he's just an old fighter now and because his reflexes slowed to a point where guys could touch him, his technical flaws are allowing fighters to be much more competitive with him than they would have been back in his prime. That's not to say he still can't compete...he's just going to have to rely more on his boxing skills now as opposed to his speed and athleticism. That's one of the reasons why Hopkins is able to last into his 40's...not because of his speed or his punching power, but because he's technically sound as a boxer. He makes very few mistakes in the ring (like forgetting to duck when a left hook is coming). LOL.
Warlord
As a human being, I despise Roy Jones. But anyone who can honestly sit here at this point and continue to pretend as if though dropping muscle doesn't affect fighers, is, in my opinion, simply being overly biased.

Cutting fat to make weight is fine. Cutting muscle to do it isn't. Roy Jones and Chris Byrd are two excellent examples. How the fuck can a guy fight at heavyweight, win titles, take clean shots, and then drop to lower weights and get his ass KTFO by scrubs and dickriders? Where is the logic in that?

Whatever, though. This argument is getting old, and its generally only populated by huggers and haters, and not too many impartial observers.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jun 13 2008, 06:45 AM) [snapback]392452[/snapback]
Here we go again.


Hype is letting all the crackheads in the building.

Roy was always chinless & used his agility to get away from shots. No more no less.
blackbelt2003
I actually agree that the weight loss contributed so much to Roy's late form.

Of course there's no measuring or proving it, so it's just pure speculation, but it always seemed weird to me that a guy could take full blooded shots from a heavyweight puncher like John Ruiz (whatever you say about the guy, he hits pretty hard), to collapsing to a single Tarver left hand down at light heavy.

It doesn't add up.


I think the weight loss, especially at such a late stage in Roy's career, accelerated the age factor, leaving him slower and less resilient. Remember it all happened in the space of a year. That's a pretty short time to suddenly go from superman to shot, which makes me think exterior influences affected it, i.e. weight.


HAving said that, it was pretty darned funny seeing Roy go down for the first time. Why do we always clamour to see the top dogs get flattened? I'm still waiting for it happen to PBF...guess I'm gonna be waiting a long while now sad.gif



Black


buford54
Roy also looked like Superman because he was fighting guys who had no chance in hell.
I think it was a perfect storm. Age, step up in competition, move in weight.
Achille
If you have Mackie a specialist in weight and body control saying that then Iíll take his word more then just some average person. I guess we have to agree to disagree then, for the people that donít believe it was the weight issue. I definitely agree with Blackbeltís perspective of the matter, especially how quick it happened.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jun 13 2008, 02:28 PM) [snapback]392470[/snapback]
Roy also looked like Superman because he was fighting guys who had no chance in hell.
I think it was a perfect storm. Age, step up in competition, move in weight.



I dunno. He spanks Clinton Woods, and just two years later is flattened by Glen Johnson.

Considering Woods super close 1-1-1 series with Johnson, that's a pretty big dip in form right there. How can a guy look so strong, fast and powerful against Woods, and then so meek and woeful to a guy who's around the same level?


Roy has fought plenty of guys as good as Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver in the past, and they didn't flatten him. That there tells me that something changed. And considering just a year before his shitty form he was pasting Woods and Ruiz (who are not a million miles from Tarver and Johnson's league), that tells me something changed pretty quick.


I reckon we'd see something similar now if Floyd just suddenly decided to drop down to lightweight and fight Pacquiao. Guys who trade on their reflexes and athletic ability just should not be dropping down in weight so much. They lose more than just lb's.


Black
ROLL DEEP
I was reading and repsect what he says......

until he said Roy would've beat Tyson laugh.gif



I don't care how shot Tyson was....back then we would've found Roys chin and took him out.


No way is Roy leaning on the ropes and pot shotting to a points win over Mike.





Of course the weight drain effected him. No doubt about that.....but it happened and thats that. End of story.
Maxy
QUOTE(blackbelt2003 @ Jun 13 2008, 03:24 AM) [snapback]392454[/snapback]
I actually agree that the weight loss contributed so much to Roy's late form.

I think the weight loss, especially at such a late stage in Roy's career, accelerated the age factor, leaving him slower and less resilient. Remember it all happened in the space of a year. That's a pretty short time to suddenly go from superman to shot, which makes me think exterior influences affected it, i.e. weight.


That sums up exactly how I feel about it. For a start it's harder to lose weight as you get older anyway, hence why older fighters move up in weight classes and not down, and also, with Jones, it was muscle that he was losing which makes it even more demanding on the body.
thehype
QUOTE(Warlord @ Jun 13 2008, 12:56 AM) [snapback]392447[/snapback]
As a human being, I despise Roy Jones. But anyone who can honestly sit here at this point and continue to pretend as if though dropping muscle doesn't affect fighers, is, in my opinion, simply being overly biased.

Cutting fat to make weight is fine. Cutting muscle to do it isn't. Roy Jones and Chris Byrd are two excellent examples. How the fuck can a guy fight at heavyweight, win titles, take clean shots, and then drop to lower weights and get his ass KTFO by scrubs and dickriders? Where is the logic in that?

Whatever, though. This argument is getting old, and its generally only populated by huggers and haters, and not too many impartial observers.


I'm not disputing the fact that dropping muscle won't affect a fighter...what I'm disputing is the fact that dropping muscle is the reason why Roy lost his fights to Tarver and Johnson.

He lost to Tarver because he got mollywhopped with a left hook and I dispute the fact that the weight loss had anything to do with that. Roy never got hit as cleanly by Ruiz like he did against Tarver. Same with Glen Johnson...he simply let Johnson beat up on him along the ropes way too long (something that he also allowed John Ruiz to do BEFORE he dropped the weight).

And for the record, Chris Byrd is a HORRIBLE example because he was getting his ass beat by "scrubs and dickriders" at heavyweight too. The Byrd that got touched up by Shaun George looked like the same Byrd that got touched up by Alexander Povetkin. His speed and reflexes are just gone...and they've been gone for a while now. Weight loss had absolutely nothing to do with that.

Don't get me wrong, the weight loss didn't help the situation for him, but that's not the reason why he got beat.

But whatever.
slap
niether weight or age had anything to do with tarver just had roys number roy is still a danger to most of the fighters out there and he will show you when he beats calzaghe 116-112 roy jones jr
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(slap @ Jun 13 2008, 05:46 PM) [snapback]392518[/snapback]
niether weight or age had anything to do with tarver just had roys number roy is still a danger to most of the fighters out there and he will show you when he beats calzaghe 116-112 roy jones jr

I think weight and age were factors as proven by mackie but Tarver hit him with a nice shot and He's going to TKO Calzaghe
thehype
I'll take Calzaghe to slap him into retirement.

laugh.gif

Calzaghe by UD...Roy won't be active enough.
Warlord
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jun 13 2008, 08:28 AM) [snapback]392470[/snapback]
Roy also looked like Superman because he was fighting guys who had no chance in hell.
I think it was a perfect storm. Age, step up in competition, move in weight.

Don't make me defend Roy. I don't like it.

He has wins over fighters like Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, John Ruiz, Antonio Tarver, and various other B+ fighters like Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, Richard Hall, Eric Harding, Vinny Paz, etc... These guys had "no chance in hell" because they were outgunned by a physically superior opponenet, not because they were bums.

Again, I despise Roy Jones Jr. As a human being he's shit. As a fighter, in his prime, he was a physical freak and an all-time great. People here use what's happened to him past his prime to degrade his skills and his accomplishements. It's fucked up and unfair, and I wish people around here would try being a little more objective.
Spyder
QUOTE(Warlord @ Jun 14 2008, 04:53 AM) [snapback]392558[/snapback]
Don't make me defend Roy. I don't like it.

He has wins over fighters like Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, John Ruiz, Antonio Tarver, and various other B+ fighters like Clinton Woods, Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, Richard Hall, Eric Harding, Vinny Paz, etc... These guys had "no chance in hell" because they were outgunned by a physically superior opponenet, not because they were bums.

Again, I despise Roy Jones Jr. As a human being he's shit. As a fighter, in his prime, he was a physical freak and an all-time great. People here use what's happened to him past his prime to degrade his skills and his accomplishements. It's fucked up and unfair, and I wish people around here would try being a little more objective.

If you continue on this path, then I'm going to start thinking that you're capable of rational thought.

Knock it off.

laugh.gif
FenderDG3
QUOTE(thehype @ Jun 13 2008, 02:04 PM) [snapback]392499[/snapback]
And for the record, Chris Byrd is a HORRIBLE example because he was getting his ass beat by "scrubs and dickriders" at heavyweight too. The Byrd that got touched up by Shaun George looked like the same Byrd that got touched up by Alexander Povetkin. His speed and reflexes are just gone...and they've been gone for a while now. Weight loss had absolutely nothing to do with that.


I'm not disagreeing here, I'd just like to see what ByrdMan has to say about that comment laugh.gif
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(thehype @ Jun 13 2008, 07:03 PM) [snapback]392525[/snapback]
I'll take Calzaghe to slap him into retirement.

laugh.gif

Calzaghe by UD...Roy won't be active enough.

You put a lot of faith in joe's chin what makes you think he can handle Roy's shots if B.Hop dropped him Roy by Violent TKO in 5
JD
QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ Jun 14 2008, 05:21 PM) [snapback]392588[/snapback]
You put a lot of faith in joe's chin what makes you think he can handle Roy's shots if B.Hop dropped him Roy by Violent TKO in 5


When was the last time Roy knocked anyone out...let alone "violently"?
thehype
QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ Jun 14 2008, 05:21 PM) [snapback]392588[/snapback]
You put a lot of faith in joe's chin what makes you think he can handle Roy's shots if B.Hop dropped him Roy by Violent TKO in 5


Likewise, you put a lot of faith in Roy's chin.

laugh.gif

What makes you think he can handle JoeCal's speed?

laugh.gif

If Tito's slow, one-dimensional, 2-year layoff ass could touch him, Calzaghe by VIOLENT slap-fest decision.

laugh.gif
D-MARV
Roy still has the handspeed and power to rock Joe C. but he is not active enough and Joe C is too active for Roy. Joe C should take a wide decision, but my love for Roy Jones Jr gives me a little hope that Roy would land that one last left hook or straight right that will tuck Joe C in! lol
Spyder
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 14 2008, 11:15 PM) [snapback]392611[/snapback]
Roy still has the handspeed and power to rock Joe C. but he is not active enough and Joe C is too active for Roy. Joe C should take a wide decision, but my love for Roy Jones Jr gives me a little hope that Roy would land that one last left hook or straight right that will tuck Joe C in! lol

I seriously thought biggeorge wrote this until I looked at your screen name.

BG, this guy is trying to take your spot on the fence!

laugh.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jun 15 2008, 12:15 AM) [snapback]392617[/snapback]
I seriously thought biggeorge wrote this until I looked at your screen name.

BG, this guy is trying to take your spot on the fence!

laugh.gif

I Dont Get It?
Spyder
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 15 2008, 03:01 AM) [snapback]392621[/snapback]
I Dont Get It?

I'm just messing with biggeorge a little bit. He likes to sit on the fence with his fight predictions...

"I want Roy to win, but I can totally see Joey C winning a close UD. If Roy lands a big shot he could knock Joe out, but I don't know if he can keep up with Joe's workrate. This might be Roy's last great fight and he'll want to go out on top, but Joe C might be too active for him..."

laugh.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jun 15 2008, 10:11 AM) [snapback]392639[/snapback]
I'm just messing with biggeorge a little bit. He likes to sit on the fence with his fight predictions...

"I want Roy to win, but I can totally see Joey C winning a close UD. If Roy lands a big shot he could knock Joe out, but I don't know if he can keep up with Joe's workrate. This might be Roy's last great fight and he'll want to go out on top, but Joe C might be too active for him..."

laugh.gif

Oh, LOL

Yeah, I have always been a fan of Roy Jones and I know that his best days a far behind him but I just have the little bit faith that he has one more fight in him.
Wishful Thinking... dntknw.gif
U.S. Champ
Somebody please get Joe Calslappy to sign up for his Brutal KO
JD
QUOTE(JD @ Jun 14 2008, 05:51 PM) [snapback]392591[/snapback]
When was the last time Roy knocked anyone out...let alone "violently"?


JD...that last stoppage on Jones' record was Clinton Woods, and that was ~6 years ago, but the ref didn't stop it, Woods' corner threw the towel in.
BigG
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 15 2008, 02:44 PM) [snapback]392640[/snapback]
Oh, LOL

Yeah, I have always been a fan of Roy Jones and I know that his best days a far behind him but I just have the little bit faith that he has one more fight in him.
Wishful Thinking... dntknw.gif



laugh.gif Yes. Your predicition is very identical to mine.
D-MARV
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Jun 15 2008, 11:39 PM) [snapback]392663[/snapback]
laugh.gif Yes. Your predicition is very identical to mine.

LOL, we must think the same because I notice we both pick Juan Diaz to stop Katsidis late!
Tha Docta
QUOTE(thehype @ Jun 13 2008, 03:04 PM) [snapback]392499[/snapback]
I'm not disputing the fact that dropping muscle won't affect a fighter...what I'm disputing is the fact that dropping muscle is the reason why Roy lost his fights to Tarver and Johnson.

He lost to Tarver because he got mollywhopped with a left hook and I dispute the fact that the weight loss had anything to do with that. Roy never got hit as cleanly by Ruiz like he did against Tarver. Same with Glen Johnson...he simply let Johnson beat up on him along the ropes way too long (something that he also allowed John Ruiz to do BEFORE he dropped the weight).

And for the record, Chris Byrd is a HORRIBLE example because he was getting his ass beat by "scrubs and dickriders" at heavyweight too. The Byrd that got touched up by Shaun George looked like the same Byrd that got touched up by Alexander Povetkin. His speed and reflexes are just gone...and they've been gone for a while now. Weight loss had absolutely nothing to do with that.

Don't get me wrong, the weight loss didn't help the situation for him, but that's not the reason why he got beat.

But whatever.



maybe roy got old overnight, but i believe he was never the same after the weight loss. just looking at the first tarver fight, ive never seen roy lay on the ropes that much in my life. the man had no legs at all in that fight and looked like a faded fighter. im sure age didnt help, but when you see such a drastic difference after coming off one of his best wins, it seems to lend credit to the theory about the weight loss.


U.S. Champ
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jun 17 2008, 12:44 PM) [snapback]392837[/snapback]
maybe roy got old overnight, but i believe he was never the same after the weight loss. just looking at the first tarver fight, ive never seen roy lay on the ropes that much in my life. the man had no legs at all in that fight and looked like a faded fighter. im sure age didnt help, but when you see such a drastic difference after coming off one of his best wins, it seems to lend credit to the theory about the weight loss.

At least someone see's past they're dislike for the best P4P boxer of his Generation
jlupi
Id give roy the weight excuse in the first fight. He stated before the fight that he wasnt 100% due to the weight loss. looked drawn and had the fight going away if he had the energy to keep it in the middle of the ring.

Roys performances after are a result of age and the beating he took in his win against tarver(physically/mentally)
Method
Even f you concede Roy the weight excuse in the first fight (I don't, not completely, anyway), then what's the excuse for the second? The Johnson fight? Then the Tarver rubber match (where Roy almost went to sleep again, and was so giddy in the post fight interview that he didn't get stopped)? The weight excuse gets attributed to all 4 of those fights, but as soon as he takes his action to the corn fields of Iowa, against a tomoato can, when nobody's watching, and then another, and now all of the sudden he's back. Sorry. Can't accept that.
D-MARV
I just might be the biggest Roy Jones Jr fan on this forum! if not, then Im one of the Biggest!

The weight effected RJJ in the first Tarver fight! The second fight had more to do with age than the weight loss!

He dug deep, displayed a ton of heart, and pulled of the first fight. The second Tarver fight Roy was not effected by the weight that much. He was getting old prior to the Tarver trilogy so his reflexes were not the same. He would have Coasted his way to a decision in the second fight but he got caught! It Happens! The number one Pound for Pound fighter, Manny Pacquiao has been caught cold before. Thats part of the game.

Roy never recovered from the first KO. He signed to fight Glen Johnson who he overlooked in IMHO and again was overwhelmed and Caught cold. By the time the third Tarver fight came around he just wanted to survuve 12 rounds. Simple as that. He could have beat Tarver in the third fight. Hell!, he may have even stopped Tarver but he was so worried about not getting caught.

Roy has just gotten old! I consider him to be an all time great but he is only a shadow of himself now. His last 3 fights were against guys he knew could not KO him. Even in those fights you can see how much RJJ has aged. He doesn't let his hands go as much and his legs look average!

I give him a small chance against Calzaghe because I dont think he will respect Calzaghes punch the way he did Tarver's. He might let his hands go for the middle portion of the fight and maybe, "just maybe" he can find Calzaghe and hurt him. But if this does not happen, expect to see Calzaghe win by UD!
Tha Docta
even roys latest fights show that the man doesnt have a whole lot left in the tank. roy has no legs anymore.

simple fact is that roy hasnt looked good since coming back down from heavyweight. whatever the reasons are, the man just hit a wall and has steadily declined since the ruiz fight. i believe losing the weight quickened his downfall. if he were younger, his body may have been able to rebound after the ruiz fight, but since he was getting old, his body just couldnt recover. couple that with roys declining reflexes and you have a recipe for disaster. thats my take on it.

Method
QUOTE
He would have Coasted his way to a decision in the second fight but he got caught! It Happens!


After seeing ONLY 4 1/2 minutes of a scheduled 36 minutes, how the fuck did you deduce THAT?
JD
LOL...

Yeah, I mean, how are you going to tell me a fighter would have coasted to a decision had they not gotten caught - when they got caught in the second round???

Roy won A round. 1 round. A round. He than proceeded to get knocked out.
Tha Docta
i can understand saying something like that after the 1st round had ended, but damn, that 2nd round did not go very well for roy at all.

i also think jaidon codrington would have coasted to victory if only allan green hadnt rendered him comatosed in the 1st round.
Method
Well, then, using that line of shortsighted thought, Edison Miranda would have coasted to a decision had Abraham not KHTFO.
JD
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jun 23 2008, 12:39 PM) [snapback]393482[/snapback]
i can understand saying something like that after the 1st round had ended, but damn, that 2nd round did not go very well for roy at all.

i also think jaidon codrington would have coasted to victory if only allan green hadnt rendered him comatosed in the 1st round.



I suppose if you were looking for a reason to feel good for Roy, after round 1, you could have looked around at your buds and said..."Nice easy round...11 more, just like that...you're gonna coast, Roy."

Than, as a boxing fan, you remember that often times the first round is meaningless - and Tarver is simply waiting on Roy, as is his natural tendency. Just as you finish remembering that, you can refocus on the fight...but your timing will not be so good, because now you are focusing on Roy Jones looking like a drunken sailor and walking the length of the ring with the ref between him and Tarver, only to realize that Roy ain't actually walking - his legs are just doing some crazy shit without actually being commanded by his brain.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(JD @ Jun 23 2008, 12:45 PM) [snapback]393484[/snapback]
I suppose if you were looking for a reason to feel good for Roy, after round 1, you could have looked around at your buds and said..."Nice easy round...11 more, just like that...you're gonna coast, Roy."

Than, as a boxing fan, you remember that often times the first round is meaningless - and Tarver is simply waiting on Roy, as is his natural tendency. Just as you finish remembering that, you can refocus on the fight...but your timing will not be so good, because now you are focusing on Roy Jones looking like a drunken sailor and walking the length of the ring with the ref between him and Tarver, only to realize that Roy ain't actually walking - his legs are just doing some crazy shit without actually being commanded by his brain.



tarvers natural tendency is to be an annoying, milkdud looking piece of shit. its too bad he didnt take his ass kicking from bernard and ride off into the sunset.
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