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BoxingStill#1

With out a doubt, PBF has the entire package as a Champion. Is there really fighter out there who can unquesionably beat him? Could Cotto really, sincerly beat JR?.....

Or has Mayweather honestly earned his part in history as the P4P, undefeated king with a 39-0 record?.....

On one hand I wanted more than anything for Cotto and Jr. to meet......So much so, I didnt really even want Cotto to fight anyone else that may have created an upset,....allowing PBF to make the excuse " He's not ready"......

On the other hand this is PBF we are talking about here...He has beat nearly every style of fighter.....!

Lets just say the fight did take place.....Lets just say PBF did win......Wouldnt there be another hungry contender right around the corner waiting for his opportunity to dethrone the king?......It could go on and on untill one day, as usually the case, he becomes old and gets embarased by someone who is next in line!!!.....

Maybe,...just maybe.... retireing was'nt such a bad idea after all......

Was this the reason?,,....Or do you think PBF would take a physicall beating from Cotto?.....
AussieLad
I'm thinking this an MMA forum? dntknw.gif
King Eugene
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Jun 20 2008, 12:01 AM) [snapback]393069[/snapback]
With out a doubt, PBF has the entire package as a Champion. Is there really fighter out there who can unquesionably beat him? Could Cotto really, sincerly beat JR?.....

Or has Mayweather honestly earned his part in history as the P4P, undefeated king with a 39-0 record?.....

On one hand I wanted more than anything for Cotto and Jr. to meet......So much so, I didnt really even want Cotto to fight anyone else that may have created an upset,....allowing PBF to make the excuse " He's not ready"......

On the other hand this is PBF we are talking about here...He has beat nearly every style of fighter.....!

Lets just say the fight did take place.....Lets just say PBF did win......Wouldnt there be another hungry contender right around the corner waiting for his opportunity to dethrone the king?......It could go on and on untill one day, as usually the case, he becomes old and gets embarased by someone who is next in line!!!.....

Maybe,...just maybe.... retireing was'nt such a bad idea after all......

Was this the reason?,,....Or do you think PBF would take a physicall beating from Cotto?.....



I agree with you. Stop while your on top. Roy Jones Jr. should have done it, Ray Leonard Should have done it, Lennix Lewis Done it, Hell Michael Jordan should have done it!
CreDog
IMO, PBF would solidify his (all time great) legacy if he were to fight and beat Cotto.

Look at the PFP all time greats, they all had at least one career defining fight, and I don't count Oscar or Hatton as that accomplishment.

slap
I do think that he's proven himself but I do wanna see him fight cotto but it wouldn't matter cause even if he beats cotto then its gonna be well he didn't fight paul williams or margarito its always something so maybe he did the right thing by getting out on top but i still think he'll come back.
King Eugene
Exactly...people are never satisfied.
Imperius3
He has not fulfilled his legacy until he fights Cotto. If he were to continue to fight and reign undefeated for the next 5 years, then he could be mentioned in the same breath as Ali and Robinson. It would be nice if the latter happened.
thehype
I'll go one step further...not only should he fight Cotto, but he should also fight Mosley.

Not to say that he would necessarily lose to either one of those guys, but I'm not willing to automatically give him the victories simply because his name is Floyd Mayweather.
BGv2.0
This division has way too much depth at the moment...Cotto, Mosley, Margarito.

There is no way a supposed "BEST" gets that title when not fighting 3-4 active HIGHLY skilled guys at the time of his departure.

FOR SURE...if Cotto were to unify and become the top guy.....that question mark would ALWAYS be there....and that does not seal a legacy.


I do understand what you are saying about there always being one more guy around the corner....BUT...some instances are less worthy than others. THIS moment is WORTHY!!!

Lennox Lewis is a perfect example....after the Tyson fight...he should have stopped right then and there....sure people would have questioned his ability to have beaten both Klits....but as time went on..Vitali turned out to be a total dud of a HW "Champion" and Wlad has for sure seen major ups and downs and is far from considered the best. In that respect his legacy would not suffer.

BUT....had he retired without ever fighting Tyson (who although was a shell of himself...he was still active in the division) or Holyfield....there would have always been a question mark on those outcomes.

He took care of that and even squeezed in one Klit victory before riding off.



I think Cotto is without doubt the fight he needs to seal his legacy.

Mosley it could always be argued was beyond his prime.....if Cotto beats Margarito....you could argue PBF beat the guy who beat Margarito.

The key guy is Cotto....a prime, undefeated fighter that was in a position to challenge you at the time of your "reign"....and you left without fighting him.....

history will always remember that....FOR SURE if Cotto becomes legendary himself.


JD
Floyd may have left when he was the clear P4P champ...but he also left when he had the longest list of challenges in front of him.

His reign at 147 was far from inspiring, and there were NUMEROUS interesting fights for him there. Instead, he opted to leave as opposed to fighting any of them. From a money and health perspective, you can never fault a guy for getting rich and moving on...from a legacy perspective, he did not do all that he could do.
PR316
I guess its better to get out at the top sometimes. I think for every top fighter, there is always that next challenge.


I personally do think Mayweather absolutely should fight Cotto if and when he comes back(Retirement announcement is BS I think). But I also know that if he beats Cotto in decisive fashion, there will be another challenge out there waiting for him with boxing fans demanding that he face it.


If he's truly done, I say God bless him. He's a sure hall of famer and I guess thats all that matters. But he is not an all time welterweight thats for sure.
The CEO
ROLL DEEP
He's supposedly in, or near his prime. He's supposed to be one of the best that ever did it......



But I'm not too sold on his record.




I beleive he can beat the guys people have mentioned him to fight....AND he needs to beat them imo to solidify his status as one of the best p4p.


Anyone else mentioned in that bracket had fights with other BIG names.


Even just another one fight would be better.....leaving after beating Hatton just doesn't cut it for me. Especially as he's supposed to be one of the GOAT and not just a brilliant fighter.
The CEO
Mayweather has more to prove, and he WILL....he ain't done by a long shot....the "heavy heart" memo was nothing but an angle to make more money....

Money loves money way too much to retire...and Boxing is his bread and butter.
D-MARV
Floyd will always have something more prove...

If he beats Cotto, which im sure he can, then he will have to fight Paul Williams. If he beats Paul Williams, then he would have to fight one of the upcoming stars like Berto.

I agree with C.E.O. I do believe he will be back to fight Cotto next summer. The man loves Money! But no matter how you look at it he will always be faced with new challenges.

The man has won titles in 5 different weight classes. He has defeated several other great fighters, and he has never lost a fight. In fact, he has never come close to losing a fight, other than the first Castillo fight.

He is a sure lock for the Boxing Hall of Fame, he has made more money in this sport than most fighters will ever make in 3 lifetimes. And he seems to be happy with his career.

Like I have been saying since day 1. He doesn't have to prove nothing to anyone but him self. If he's happy than thats all that matters.

same for Calzaghe, if he's happy fighting RJJ then hangin them up than good for him. Both fighters have had great careers and they will go down as great fighters.
ROLL DEEP
damarvelous.....or anyone else,

Who is that Jones is knocking out in your sig? Never seen a fighters eyes look so zombified before, lol.
mrwigi
retire from boxing and dont let it retire you. Mayweather made a name for himself. made alot of money, and in the end, he never really took a beating. If im not mistaken cotto turned him down once at 140. I would love to see that fight just to see him parry the left hook to the body and counter. he has tremendous skill, and doesnt want to be known as a beaten fighter.. I agree
hardhead
QUOTE(JD @ Jun 21 2008, 11:09 AM) [snapback]393209[/snapback]
Floyd may have left when he was the clear P4P champ...but he also left when he had the longest list of challenges in front of him.

His reign at 147 was far from inspiring, and there were NUMEROUS interesting fights for him there. Instead, he opted to leave as opposed to fighting any of them. From a money and health perspective, you can never fault a guy for getting rich and moving on...from a legacy perspective, he did not do all that he could do.



Agreed a 100 fold. He hasn't even proven himself at welter(you could make a case for Cotto being the best welter if he beats Margarito regardless if Mayweather would had retired, much less an ATG welter) and ironically when the welterweight division has been at its deepest in several years, Mayweather retires(or he acts above the sport that he doesn't have to fight them because they aren't entrepreneurs and claims he would beat them anyway, and that's a wrap).

I don't think he's retiring at all though. I'm no fucking fool. At this point I'm just sick of all the egotistical bullshit that comes with the guy.
Mean Mister Mustard
The answer is no. A fighter can never accmomplish EVERYTHING, but he can come darn close to doing so.

I don't like the "There will always be another challenge and people will never be satisfied, therefore he has nothing left to prove." argument. That type of reasoning does not make ATG fighters. You think SRR went around at 27 going " There's always a next challenge and I don't want to take it because I've done enough. I'm out." That is what you and I would say if we were in their place. But these guys are fighters, they strive for a challenge, which is why I know PBF is not retired, just taking a break.

Now you might point out to me that SRR went too far and as a result ended up being beaten by fighters he shouldn't have lost to. But hey, that's boxing, it can be prevented, like the Lewis example, but many great fighters don't know when to stop and sometimes they pull off great victories that add to their legacy.

PBF is a future HOF. That's not even up for debate. Wins over Genaro Hernandez (Mayweather was at what, his 19th pro fight?), Manfredy, Corrales, Hernandez, Chavez, Castillo 2X (first one disputed), Corley, Gatti, Judah, De La Hoya and Hatton make sure he gets in. But if he wants to be up there with Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, he needs to defend against the top welterweights.

Again, do not put foward the "there's always another contender out there" argument. Knowledgable boxing fans know when a fighter is ATG. Say PBF beats Cotto, Williams and maybe Mosley. Smart fans would admit he was ATG, only haters and ignorant fans would dispute the claim but the people that count would recognize his greatness.

All of this to say that being the best entiails you to fight the best, no excuses.
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(hardhead @ Jun 21 2008, 11:40 AM) [snapback]393226[/snapback]
At this point I'm just sick of all the egotistical bullshit that comes with the guy.



I think this sums it up for most boxing fans.

Do doubt Mayweather is extremely talented. Mayweather has fought and beat some of the best of his day. I think there are two things that rub people wrong with Mayweather. His shitty attitude and the fact that he hasnt fought a top welter. If he had never made the move to welter he could be retiring right now and nobody would be wondering what if. Mayweather only needs to beat Cotto to go down as one of the greatest. Right now he is considered somewhat great but not in the same breath as Chavez, Hagler, or Leonard. If he beat Cotto he would be right there with those guys.
D-MARV
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Jun 21 2008, 11:51 AM) [snapback]393224[/snapback]
damarvelous.....or anyone else,

Who is that Jones is knocking out in your sig?

Some cat named Art Serwano
BigG
Fact is, Miguel Cotto is an undefeated, dominant fighter IN Floyds weight class. Floyd is STILL in his prime and if he doesn't fight Cotto then that would seriously be disappointing. Cotto is a complete fighter in his prime, much better than Ricky Hatton is..especially at 147.
streetlion1
Not as a Welter...No Way! He talked and talked and gave excuses not to fight the best in the division while still calling himself the best. On his way up he fought a few good fighters but the talent he was around at 147 was by far the most challenging...so then he became a $$$ fighter and dodged the real contenders...Floyd was a paper champion. thumbsdown_anim.gif
Spyder
Come on ya'll...this is boxing! Home of the fake retirements!

Floyd is just enjoying a lil time away, knowing that Oscar will fight Cotto in December, and knowing that it will cost the winner more money to bring him out of retirement.

This shit is ALL about the loot!
kidbazooka1
No i do not think Floyd has accomplished everything in the sport. First of all he's still in his prime so fights with Cotto, Margarito and Williams should have been a priority to him if he wanted to prove that he's as great as he says he is. Unstead he squeaked by a past his prime DLH and beat up a smaller Ricky Hatton. I believe that he'll be back but if he does sta y true to his word and stays retired I think history look back and him and say he never fought the top guys in his divison.
BoxingStill#1
[quote name='JD' date='Jun 21 2008, 07:09 AM' post='393209']
Floyd may have left when he was the clear P4P champ...but he also left when he had the longest list of challenges in front of him.

....well put...lol....
neophyte7
Cotto turned him down--- he was not ready and is not ready for Mayweather--- quite frankly, it would end up like the Hatton fight-- Cotto on his ass--- Hell Cotto more than likely will get his ass kicked by Margarito- styles make fights and Cotto does not evade or move enough to keep Margarito off of him. Margarito will stop KO in 9 rounds ------------
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Jun 21 2008, 08:00 PM) [snapback]393266[/snapback]
Cotto turned him down--- he was not ready and is not ready for Mayweather--- quite frankly, it would end up like the Hatton fight-- Cotto on his ass--- Hell Cotto more than likely will get his ass kicked by Margarito- styles make fights and Cotto does not evade or move enough to keep Margarito off of him. Margarito will stop KO in 9 rounds ------------


The question is when did he turn him down? Was it pre-welterweight days?
buford54
Everyone knows that Floyd's not done...but if he were, then no.

Once he got to 140, he fought Demarcus Corley, Henry Bruseles, and then Arturo Gatti for his belt.
Then he hopped to 147 and fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah and Carlos Baldomir.
Then, he fought DLH at 154,
Then he fought Hatton at 147.

In the meantime, there were other legit champs that he did not fight.
But now that he has tasted the 8th figure on his payday, he will have the eternal excuse to not fight people because they are "not on his level."
What he really means is that they do not generate as much revenue as he demands.

This is what ruins fighters. Roy signed w/ HBO for a guaranteed payday and would vocally turn down challenging fights because he could "make 3-5 million for his mandatory."
Now, Floyd has the DLH rematch option and the Hatton rematch option (in England), both of which would bring more than any other fights, but mean far less to the fans and the sport.
No way he takes 8 million to fight Cotto or Margarito.
And there is NO WAY he would take 4-5 million to fight someone like Paul Williams.
neophyte7
simple mathematics...
Bill The Butcher
No doubt, PBF is great. But I really think he should have fought Cotto and Mosley, then call it quits. It's not like he is way out of his prime, he is close enough to it. And those would be two big money fights for him and definitely winnable. If he did that, that would win over a large group of people. He would be walking away 1 year older, two more great fights under his belt to solidify his place in history, and millions more dollars in his bank account.

Thegreatequalizer
no matter what anyone says, floyd has not done as much as he could to display his dominance in boxing. bhop cleaned out the middleweight division, then cleaned out anyone worth fighting in the lower weights. then moved up and fought some of the best at higher weights. floyd has meandered about, picking and choosing who he wants to fight. i mean, i understand that some of these fights were to beat big names, but gatti was never a world class fighter. he fought oscar, but what about the guy that has two wins over oscar in mosley? he's not taking out the people on top (with the exception of baldomir, who though he's not great, was the undisputed welter champ at the time).

so his legacy does have a lot of holes. he has shown himself to be a great fighter though. and more importantly for him, if he stays retired, he became a "great" in a brutal sport without taking much damage, made tons of money, and has a long life ahead of him to enjoy it. but i'm sure that even if he does intend to retire for good that the he will miss the ring and eventually come back.
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jun 21 2008, 09:38 PM) [snapback]393285[/snapback]
Everyone knows that Floyd's not done...but if he were, then no.

Once he got to 140, he fought Demarcus Corley, Henry Bruseles, and then Arturo Gatti for his belt.
Then he hopped to 147 and fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah and Carlos Baldomir.
Then, he fought DLH at 154,
Then he fought Hatton at 147.

In the meantime, there were other legit champs that he did not fight.
But now that he has tasted the 8th figure on his payday, he will have the eternal excuse to not fight people because they are "not on his level."
What he really means is that they do not generate as much revenue as he demands.

This is what ruins fighters. Roy signed w/ HBO for a guaranteed payday and would vocally turn down challenging fights because he could "make 3-5 million for his mandatory."
Now, Floyd has the DLH rematch option and the Hatton rematch option (in England), both of which would bring more than any other fights, but mean far less to the fans and the sport.
No way he takes 8 million to fight Cotto or Margarito.
And there is NO WAY he would take 4-5 million to fight someone like Paul Williams.

Which is why Cotto needs to beat Tony and square off with Paul to decide who should call PBF out of retirement for a Mega Payday
buford54
I agree. If Cotto beats Tony and if he can beat Paul, then he will have beaten everyone that Floyd wouldn't fight, and Floyd will forever have the question mark over his head.
Imperius3
Speaking of Mayweather-Castillo I, I rewatched that fight, and I scored it 8-4 for Mayweather. I first watched it many years ago, and I originally scored it for Castillo. My scoring skills are better now, and maybe HBO's commentary affected me the first time. So yeah, that fight really wasn't as controversial as I remembered.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(U.S. Champ @ Jun 22 2008, 08:05 PM) [snapback]393431[/snapback]
Cotto needs to beat Tony and square off with Paul to decide who should call PBF out of retirement for a Mega Payday

Bullshit. Floyd's young, in his prime, and supposed to be the champ at 147. Yet you're asking Cotto to beat Mosley, Margarito and Williams - three guys Mayweather wouldn't fight. The champ is supposed to be the one who cleans out the division, not the challenger. If Cotto were to do what you're asking, there would be no disputing which fighter had achieved more as a welterweight. It would be Cotto, and it wouldn't even be close.

Floyd Mayweather is a great fighter, probably one of the best lightweights/junior-lightweights of our time, but in reality he accomplished very little above those weights.
hardhead
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Jun 23 2008, 03:23 PM) [snapback]393467[/snapback]
Bullshit. Floyd's young, in his prime, and supposed to be the champ at 147. Yet you're asking Cotto to beat Mosley, Margarito and Williams - three guys Mayweather wouldn't fight. The champ is supposed to be the one who cleans out the division, not the challenger. If Cotto were to do what you're asking, there would be no disputing which fighter had achieved more as a welterweight. It would be Cotto, and it wouldn't even be close.

Floyd Mayweather is a great fighter, probably one of the best lightweights/junior-lightweights of our time, but in reality he accomplished very little above those weights.



I agree, especially the bolded part.
D-MARV
I 'm a fan of Mayweather but He will not go down as a great welterweight at this point!

Damn, I wish he would just fight Mosley & Cotto! He would win both of those fights in my opinion and that should be enough to solidify his greatness @ the welterweight level.
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