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Jack 1000
Post any round by round/postfight comments for Abraham-Miranda II in this thread. Please do not create new spoiler threads or new duplicate topics about the fight. We will close or delete them. Be considerate for users who may be recording the fight to watch later.

Jack

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FenderDG3
Great fight going into the championship rounds between Marquez and Lorenzo
Method
QUOTE
"I can tell when a punch is low or not," Neumann continues. "I warned Miranda and then he goes right back out and does it two or three more times...he hits Abraham right in the balls. A referee has a very important job because decisions have to be made in nanoseconds and itís not easy. The referee can be the difference between life and death and sometimes there are million dollar deals on the line."
Funny that this guy STILL thinks Abraham was getting hit under the cup (as evidenced by other parts of Tom Gerbasi of Maxboxing's article. The replays clearly show every "low" blow on the beltline...sure as shit not under the cup.

QUOTE
Which brings us to the broken jaw. It was the result of a punch landed by Miranda in the fourth round and it caused a gruesome injury. The confused German doctors ended up ceasing the action for several minutes while they examined Abraham's twisted face in an attempt to make up their minds as to whether or not they were going to let the fight continue.

"It was a very interesting technicality," said a bemused Neumann. "I discussed it with Lindsay Tucker of the IBF. The injury that Abraham sustained was the result of a legitimate punch and he would lose by TKO if I had stopped the fight."


...and people wonder about the skepticality of american fighters going to Europe.

QUOTE
But nearly two years after the fight, Neumann makes no effort whatsoever to hide his disdain for Miranda, who had designs on winning the fight - no matter the method. He blames the craziness that ensued on that night in Germany mostly on the broad shoulders of Miranda.

"Miranda fights like an idiot," Neumann barks.


That pretty much says it all. Neuman has a personal disdain for Miranda, and called the fight accordingly.
FenderDG3
Close fight 114-113 on all 3 cards for Raul Marquez... Lorenzo was deducted a point in the 10th for an intentional headbutt... obviously made the difference between a draw and a loss.
Method
Round 1 Miranda.
Method
Round 2 to Miranda. Legit low blow warning. Not square on the cup - more like halfway between cup and belt line. Still, 2-0 Miranda.
FenderDG3
QUOTE(Method @ Jun 21 2008, 09:35 PM) [snapback]393283[/snapback]
Round 2 to Miranda. Legit low blow warning. Not square on the cup - more like halfway between cup and belt line. Still, 2-0 Miranda.


I think that one was lower than any of the ones in Germany... Abraham complains to the refs a lot.
FenderDG3
Round 3 for Abraham- 29-27 Miranda
Method
Think ya gotta give Abraham the 3rd. Not as active as Miranda, but landed a few staggering shots.

Miranda's glove got caught in Abrahams guard, and he got reprimanded for that. WTF.

Interestingly enough, Bernstein noted a nutritionist was brought into Miranda's camp, perhaps signifying a problem.

Wooops, there it is, Miranda on his ass....
FenderDG3
Wow, Miranda down 3 times in rd. 4, ref waves off the fight
Icebeast
Game over biggrin.gif
FenderDG3
Abraham W TKO round 4
Method
Game over.

Nice win for Abraham.

Played it defensive for a few rounds, presumably, then opened up.

Glad I didn't drive up to the Hard Rock for a four rounder.

Miranda's gonna be the next 'Twon Echols.
frankypc
lol, i think miranda's chin hasnt hold up to his style of fighting, or it always was bad. Anyway good win for abraham.
treyes7123
Pavlik v Abraham will be wicked awesome.
neophyte7
Miranda is a one dimensional wasted fighter... he has horrible defense and therefore cannot be successful ... too easy to hit.
MManiscalco
I second that Hard Rock statement lol. I was gonna go up there for nothing, but the KING took it home!

Where do you live?
D-MARV
I figured this would be an impressive win for Arthur, but Dayum...

PAVLIK VS ABRAHAM!!!! F*ck Calzaghe!
MManiscalco
Pavlik-Abraham
Roy Jones Jr-Calzaghe

that should be the plan
rusty_trombone
damn my boy got fucked up. did you see how ridiculous the punches he was getting hit with were. that shit reminded me of a video game, he was just winging these huge shots and miranda was too fucked up to get out of the way.
FenderDG3
QUOTE(MManiscalco @ Jun 21 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]393299[/snapback]
Pavlik-Abraham
Roy Jones Jr-Calzaghe

that should be the plan


cosign... Abraham impressed me tonight. I thought the fight was going to play out a lot differently than it did.
The Original MrFactor
I didnt like Abraham because of the first fight with Miranda. I felt he was another protected product from Germany. Tonight he changed all that. He came into a hostile crowd and whooped a failry popular guy in a rematch. He whooped him emphatically. He came to America and made for an intriguing fight between himself and Kelly Pavlik.

Pavlik vs Abraham is the Cotto vs Margarito for this winter. It needs to be made. Let Calzaghe get his rocks off on beating Jones this fall...

Pavlik vs Abraham in vegas this fall... The fans demand it...
FenderDG3
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Jun 21 2008, 10:19 PM) [snapback]393314[/snapback]
I didnt like Abraham because of the first fight with Miranda. I felt he was another protected product from Germany. Tonight he changed all that. He came into a hostile crowd and whooped a failry popular guy in a rematch. He whooped him emphatically. He came to America and made for an intriguing fight between himself and Kelly Pavlik.

Pavlik vs Abraham is the Cotto vs Margarito for this winter. It needs to be made. Let Calzaghe get his rocks off on beating Jones this fall...

Pavlik vs Abraham in vegas this fall... The fans demand it...


I felt the same way about Abraham for all the same reasons you listed, and I also agree with your other 2 points.
Mean Mister Mustard
I have been pushing for this fight since Abraham beat Miranda the first time. It was unusual to hear mnay boxing fans who only wanted to see Pavlik face Calzaghe and thought an Abraham would be crap. A lot of writers too, just look at the Pavlik-Calzaghe thread in the artcile Method posted, the author said an Abraham match does nothing for him. Well that dude looks like an idiot right about now. Maybe they thought Abraham was another Ottke.
Jack 1000
QUOTE(FenderDG3 @ Jun 21 2008, 09:06 PM) [snapback]393281[/snapback]
Close fight 114-113 on all 3 cards for Raul Marquez... Lorenzo was deducted a point in the 10th for an intentional headbutt... obviously made the difference between a draw and a loss.


Question?

One of the press row cards had it 116-112 for Marquez. How can that be? Lorenzo did lose a point for an intentional head-butt? I had it 116-111 for Marquez. The writer must have forgotten about the penalty.

Jack
Jack 1000
3-0 Miranda before the KO win by Abraham. Not total domination like Jim said. King Arthur said that he was being more cautions in the beginning. He saved his energy with good counter-punches, but Miranda was busier from rounds 1-3, than BOOM, he smashes Miranda 3 times in the 4th!!! I like King Arthur's attitude in the post-fight.

Jack
hardhead
That was earlier than I expected... laugh.gif Regardless of all the bullshit and controversy in the first fight Abraham hurt and wobbled Miranda a few times then and was landing good clean power shots throughout. Just by seeing that I knew he had enough power to hurt him in the rematch. I thought he might've boxed a bit more and would possibly get the late stoppage but truth is, he felt what the Panther had and pounced in the 3rd and 4th. Miranda can't do shit with a straight right and left hook combo

Miranda is a tough, game fighter that comes to fight and you know what you get with him but he's still in the words of Roger Mayweather a "human punching bag" laugh.gif

Very impressive performance by Abraham.
hardhead
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Jun 22 2008, 05:35 AM) [snapback]393331[/snapback]
3-0 Miranda before the KO win by Abraham. Not total domination like Jim said. King Arthur said that he was being more cautions in the beginning. He saved his energy with good counter-punches, but Miranda was busier from rounds 1-3, than BOOM, he smashes Miranda 3 times in the 4th!!! I like King Arthur's attitude in the post-fight.

Jack



I had it 2-1 Miranda, looked like in the 3rd he just realized this guy was beneath him and he just opened up on him at the latter part of the round. Very good first fight for being out of his home country though.

kidbazooka1
Damn Miranda just didn;t have the chin to match Abraham.

I hope Pavlik/Abraham happens i wanna see Kelly lay Abraham out cold.
BigG
Jack, you must be a pretty big Abraham fan..."King" Arthur? laugh.gif

Good win for Abraham. Not sure if he beats Kelly though. Like I said before, Miranda has always been another Mayorga. Fun, entertaining fighter but doesnt have the defense or skill to say on top.
kidbazooka1
Marquez showed a lot of heart and courage to battle throught with three cuts his skill and experience was just too much for the Lorenzo overall good win for Marquez..
Douchebag
Miranda has to be the dumbest boxer in the history of boxing.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Jun 22 2008, 01:29 AM) [snapback]393329[/snapback]
Question?

One of the press row cards had it 116-112 for Marquez. How can that be? Lorenzo did lose a point for an intentional head-butt? I had it 116-111 for Marquez. The writer must have forgotten about the penalty.

Jack

He must have scored one round even!
D-MARV
Pavlik- Abraham would be a good fight!

I would Favor Pavlik by a slight margin though!
FenderDG3
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Jun 22 2008, 12:29 AM) [snapback]393329[/snapback]
Question?

One of the press row cards had it 116-112 for Marquez. How can that be? Lorenzo did lose a point for an intentional head-butt? I had it 116-111 for Marquez. The writer must have forgotten about the penalty.

Jack


Yeah, the guy on press row must have had an error in adding up his card, or forgot about the point deduction. I had it 116-111 like you did. I was actually a little surprised to see that the fight would have been a unanimous draw had Lorenzo not lost point for the intentional head-butt.
Mean Mister Mustard
By the way, it does appaear that Abraham is on roids.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 22 2008, 11:17 AM) [snapback]393367[/snapback]
By the way, it does appaear that Abraham is on roids.


I was thinking that myself... In fact i think that may be a reason why many of them dont fight outside of Europe... Maybe he found his magic juice thats undetectable by the most juice tests...
MarzB
QUOTE(Method @ Jun 21 2008, 09:41 PM) [snapback]393291[/snapback]
Game over.

Nice win for Abraham.

Played it defensive for a few rounds, presumably, then opened up.

Glad I didn't drive up to the Hard Rock for a four rounder.

Miranda's gonna be the next 'Twon Echols.


Good comparison. I personally was NEVER high on this guy which makes me it hard for me to understand why 'Nard Hopkins so strongly endorsed this dude. Yes, he's a guy with a powerful right hand but thats it. I thought the Allan Green fight showed his weaknesses and the Pavlik fight completely exposed him.

I'll give Abraham an awful lot of credit for not only taking this fight but the way he disposed of him.

I don't think Abraham is in the upper eschelon yet but he's definitely solid. He and Pavlik would be a good fight but I'd still like to see Sturm in the picture. I think what he lacks in power he makes up for in a great jab that could keep someone like Abraham on the outside.

Good riddance to Miranda. He's now relegated to himself as a "gatekeeper".
D-MARV
Sturm loses to Abraham and Pavlik! He lost to Griffin the first time they fought so he needs to take care of business on July 5th before he can think about stepping in the ring with Abraham or Pavlik.

On a side note...
It looks like we might have to hold off on Abraham-Pavlik until early 2009. Last night at the post fight conference,
QUOTE
Promoter Leon Margules said Abraham-Marquez would take place in October or November after Marquez' cut has a chance to heal.
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Jun 21 2008, 10:19 PM) [snapback]393314[/snapback]
Pavlik vs Abraham is the Cotto vs Margarito for this winter. It needs to be made. Let Calzaghe get his rocks off on beating Jones this fall...

Pavlik vs Abraham in vegas this fall... The fans demand it...

Yeah Calslappy is gonna get rocked alright via violent KO by the the still lightning fast hands of RJJ
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Good fights on Showtime again. Abraham lost the first two rounds, but I guess he knew what he was doing. He set Miranda up for his shots, and it showed in the 3rd round. He was landing hard shots which were wobbling Miranda a bit. I knew it wouldn't be long, and then the next round it was over. Props to Miranda for offering no post fight excuses. It was a decent fight, and hopefully next year we'll get Abraham-Pavlik. Unless Raul Marquez can do something about it. After the first three rounds, I thought the fight was over for him. He really came on though, and outworked Lorenzo. It was good to see him get a win over a solid opponent once again. He's a good fighter, and he'll give Abraham some good work.
Method
QUOTE
3-0 Miranda before the KO win by Abraham. Not total domination like Jim said.


Agreed, Jack. I had it 2-1 for Miranda at the time of the stoppage, but Jim was like "You totally dominated all the action right up until the stoppage", and I'm like WHAT the fuck was he watching.

Marz, I guess what I meant by comparing him to Echols is that Echols was a fresh, raw and nasty fighter, all offense, when he went in there against Hopkins, just Like Miranda was when he went in there to face Pavlik. Echols went through two rough ass fight w Hopkins where he too a LOT of punishment, the likes of which takes something out of you. Same with the type of beating Pavlik gave Miranda...and then Miranda went through a few tough first few rounds with Abraham before taking over (IMO) from the 4th on). I honestly believe Miranda got jobbed in the first Abraham fight, but neither here nor there. Echols moved on from Hopkins and went to war with Charles Brewer. Echols should have lost that fight, but whatever. Point is, he's taken some shots against Hopkins, Brewer, the likes of which he was really never the same guy. I believe the same is happening or has happened to Miranda.

But I do give Pavlike credit for taking out a fresh Miranda, just like I give Hopkins so juice for taking out a fresh Echols.
blackbelt2003
Just caught the fight on youtube.


I gotta say, the only middleweight fight to be made right now is Pavlik - Abraham.

Pavlik may be a step ahead at the moment, but it's close. Pavlik has the power and skill, Abraham has the chin and strength. That has the makings of a damn good fight right there.


But if we gotta wait a little, that's OK. Let Abraham deal with Marquez, and maybe even Sturm, and let Pavlik do his thing with Mora or Calzaghe or whoever, and then they can square off next year in what should be a real big fight.



Black
Tha Docta
QUOTE(blackbelt2003 @ Jun 25 2008, 11:00 AM) [snapback]393716[/snapback]
Just caught the fight on youtube.
I gotta say, the only middleweight fight to be made right now is Pavlik - Abraham.

Pavlik may be a step ahead at the moment, but it's close. Pavlik has the power and skill, Abraham has the chin and strength. That has the makings of a damn good fight right there.
But if we gotta wait a little, that's OK. Let Abraham deal with Marquez, and maybe even Sturm, and let Pavlik do his thing with Mora or Calzaghe or whoever, and then they can square off next year in what should be a real big fight.
Black



who wants to see abraham vs marquez??? and fuck sturm, the guy will forever be a pussy that got KO'd by castillejo. i wouldnt mind seeing pavlik vs kessler or mundine though.
neophyte7
Miranda sucks as does all sluggers with his style... Abraham is not much better, he just is a lot smarter than Miranda who does not movet his head or employ any defense whatsoever. Fighters like MIranda and Abraham are always one fight way from retirement... I appreciate boxers. If Miranda could box just a tiny bit, he could maybe fight a few more times, but because of his inferior slugging pugilism he is finito... bye bye Miranda... you thougt yu were a world beater, but your career is and was a flash in the pan... let him be an example to all one dimensional fighters in love with their so called knock out power: get some damned defense and boxing skill...
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