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PrfPmp
Alright guys, not intended as any kind of slandering thread...but we all know how there's somewhat of an aura
of superiority towards black boxers.
But it seems like suddenly, there's a serious lack of American BLACK talent!!
Are they starting to practice MMA in the hoods?? Have major sports taken ALL the true talent??

To back up this theory, and so no one thinks I'm some clan member doing some good ol bashing......

BEST FIGHTERS-
122 Vazquez and Lopez
130 lbs - Pacquiau phillipino
135 lbs - Casamayor cuban'
140 lbs - Hatton and Malinaggi white
147 lbs - Miguel Cotto
154 lbs - Sergio Mora lol
160 lbs - Pavlik and Abraham
168 lbs - Calzaghe and Kessler
175 lbs - Calzaghe
Heavy - VW!!

Not ONE!!!
Has this ever happened before in boxing??
KookedKrack
i don't like this thread and neither does pbf jr.
PrfPmp
For the record I think Floyd is easily the best fighter alive...but he's retired
And at the weight his only possible fights could be....he'd have a HIGH chance of losing against a fighter who is not black
D-MARV
QUOTE(PrfPmp @ Jun 24 2008, 07:49 PM) [snapback]393644[/snapback]
Alright guys, not intended as any kind of slandering thread...but we all know how there's somewhat of an aura
of superiority towards black boxers.
But it seems like suddenly, there's a serious lack of American BLACK talent!!
Are they starting to practice MMA in the hoods?? Have major sports taken ALL the true talent??

To back up this theory, and so no one thinks I'm some clan member doing some good ol bashing......

BEST FIGHTERS-
122 Vazquez and Lopez
130 lbs - Pacquiau phillipino
135 lbs - Casamayor cuban'
140 lbs - Hatton and Malinaggi white
147 lbs - Miguel Cotto
154 lbs - Sergio Mora lol
160 lbs - Pavlik and Abraham
168 lbs - Calzaghe and Kessler
175 lbs - Calzaghe
Heavy - VW!!

Not ONE!!!
Has this ever happened before in boxing??

Wow Dude!
let's see...

135- Nate Campbell
140- Tim Bradley
147- Paul Williams
154- Phillips, Spinks, Forrest, Kirkland
160- Winky Wright???
168- Taylor, Lacy, Green
175- The whole division..........
190- Cunningham
Heavy- Tony Thompson (upset of the year coming in July), Kevin Johnson, Eddie Chambers, Malik Scott. Lots of Prosepcts!

BUt i dont like this thread either!
PrfPmp
[codebox]Wow Dude!
let's see...

135- Nate Campbell
140- Tim Bradley
147- Paul Williams
154- Phillips, Spinks, Forrest, Kirkland
160- Winky Wright???
168- Taylor, Lacy, Green
175- The whole division..........
190- Cunningham
Heavy- Tony Thompson (upset of the year coming in July), Kevin Johnson, Eddie Chambers, Malik Scott. Lots of Prosepcts!

BUt i dont like this thread either![/codebox]

I didnt say GOOD fighters....I said the BEST in the division....a superstar
None of the guys you mentioned are the best in their divisions

The only one there is Taylor who WAS a star and the best fighter and lost to Pavlik

I dont like this thread either especially since almost all my favorite fighters ever have been black. I like the speedster/flashy/power style of african american fighters
All Im asking is has this ever happened??
D-MARV
QUOTE(PrfPmp @ Jun 24 2008, 08:14 PM) [snapback]393652[/snapback]
[codebox]Wow Dude!
let's see...

135- Nate Campbell
140- Tim Bradley
147- Paul Williams
154- Phillips, Spinks, Forrest, Kirkland
160- Winky Wright???
168- Taylor, Lacy, Green
175- The whole division..........
190- Cunningham
Heavy- Tony Thompson (upset of the year coming in July), Kevin Johnson, Eddie Chambers, Malik Scott. Lots of Prosepcts!

BUt i dont like this thread either![/codebox]

I didnt say GOOD fighters....I said the BEST in the division....a superstar
None of the guys you mentioned are the best in their divisions

The only one there is Taylor who WAS a star and the best fighter and lost to Pavlik

I dont like this thread either especially since almost all my favorite fighters ever have been black. I like the speedster/flashy/power style of african american fighters
All Im asking is has this ever happened??

I dont think anything has happen! There are plenty of good black fighters.

One could argue for Paul Williams, Steve Cunningham, Chad Dawson, and Nate Campbell for being tops in the division!
I would like to include Tim Bradley but I would get bashed by the Hatton faithful. I dont think Blacks have faded at all. Maybe The Heavyweights... But there are a shitload of prospects coming up!
King Eugene
WOW I cant even believe this thread was made. I know you said the best and not good fighters but I think everybody here would agree that all the title holders are not the best in their divisions. And a lot of people argue that you cant be considered the best until you beat the best. But just to name a few...

Paul Williams I believe would be Cotto along with Money Mayweather...say what you want, it can happen. Cotto is a great fighter but just how everybody got on PBF about not fighting the best in the division they better criticize Cotto if he dont fight Williams. And at the same time I would understood if he didnt in order to fight big money fights (remember this is Prize Fighting) but just like Floyd he should get the same treatment.

Winky Wright....come on now, he is arguably the best fighter in the middle weight and Jr. Middleweight division. I will argue that until Pavlick beat him. And if he does I'll gladly say he was the best. Just cause Winky drawed with Taylor doesnt automatically mean he would lose to Pavlick, different styles make different fights!

Hate it if you want to cause I hate it my damn self but Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson, and Glenn Johnson I believe would all be Calzaghe. I'd give Johnson the best shot but I be damn if you just out right say that Calzaghe is better than all of them. Shittin me!!! But dont think I'm saying Calzaghe isnt good, I'm just saying he is not the best in the LHW, maybe the SMW but not the LHW's. Hell I hope Roy whoop his ass!

Did anybody forget about Thompson and Samuel Peters in the HW division?

This is my opinon, hate it or love it but I totally disagree with all your greatest fighters in their divisions.
D-MARV
Samuel Peter is Nigerian...

I think he was referring to Black Americans.
anthonyaccurate
This is a retarded thread and I'm jumpin in!

First off, who says they are the best? Sergio Mora? are u serious?
Cal fought ONE time at lthvyweight, he's the best?
Half of these guys aren't "superstars", hell Kessler vs Cal is the lowest rated WCB fight
in HBO history!!!!


Secondly, whats your "theory"? What does that even mean? What "theory" are you
backing up?


"we all know how there's somewhat of an aura
of superiority towards black boxers."

Huh?

Have you just started watching boxing? There have been champs of all colors and almost everyone on that
list is one fight away from losing to a black fighter.
Mean Mister Mustard
There just aren't any good black fighters anymore.
King Eugene
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM) [snapback]393666[/snapback]
There just aren't any good black fighters anymore.



LOL yea ok. Thats just like saying there arent any good black American Football or Basketball players.
King Eugene
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jun 25 2008, 12:53 AM) [snapback]393672[/snapback]
There are many good black fighters I can think of, but a lot of you guys are over reacting about the thread. Nobody cries when people ask about the next great white hope. Give it a rest, it wasn't an offensive thread.


When people say the next great white hope, they dont mean the next good white boxer. There are plenty of them, they mean the next great, blow you away, next white boxer. There are plenty of good boxers out there. A few from a lot of different races. But to go out and say there arent any good black boxers left is overboard. If he meant next great black hope like a Roy, or Bernard in his prime then I could understand that. Cause no there arent many just dominating black fighters out there like Roy, Benard, and Mayweather out there but there are still good ones that has the potential to be great.
The CEO
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM) [snapback]393666[/snapback]
There just aren't any good black fighters anymore.



laugh.gif laugh.gif
kidbazooka1
There's not many great black american fighters going right now but Im sure some will pop up in the not too distant future.

As of now the sport is being dominated by Latino and European fighters.
ROLL DEEP
A LOT of the popular names being threw around the boxing world at the moment are European, PR and Asian.


Of course there are still brilliant black fighters around, and I think the originator of this thread just wanted to bring up the fact that a few years ago names like Hopkins, Jones Jnr, Lewis, Floyd, Taylor, Taver, etc were on top and now, they've all been replaced with non-black fighters.

You can't deny that there has been a surge of non black fighters in the Heavy to Middle divisions.
WolfishPromistah
This thread seems clear enough to me. The question is whether Black-American “hopes” are out there (meaning the one folks HOPE will get those championships back -- let's be honest here), as is the case historically with the Great White Hope. You know I ain't lyin!’ That seems the bottom line of the question being posed. Therefore, to answer the question – hell no! Right NOW -- nah -- LoL! -- there ain't no great “Black Hope” THAT I see, which doesn't mean someone won't pop in and surprise all our asses. I don't know how long it's gonna take for him / them to come along again, but I WONDER (MIGHT even say I DOUBT) if it'll take AS LONG as it did for another White man to become -- say -- middle-weight champion again.

With that one, things got so bad over time that people honestly were feeling there wouldn't be another -- hehe. Yeah, I've heard that and wouldn't be surprised at any large number of others who have too. Anyway, in regards to this issue, maybe it would be nice that it happens sooner than later (I take your word for it ya want to be straight about it, no harm intended), so people won't get all in a bunch and start arguing about it, stabbing at others, like saying “people [couldn't] dance / do OR excel like some others,” because they aren't a certain background, for instance. Man, if we all can stop doing that, and even dancing around subjects and just communicate more, respecting the position of the other side (I personally think we can), maybe we'd all be better off in these supposed United States.

And, Prfpmp & Fitz, since “We are…[ALL supposedly] the world, we are the children”…you got your answer(s); I “hope” -- wink. I wonder, however, whether this "might" best be one of those continued in General Discussion. Yeah, give or take we can talk elsewhere on the boards 'bout this one, I think I will try to respectfully leave it alone for now.

Thanks fo' e'rybody's input (smile)!
Spyder
QUOTE
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM)
There just aren't any good black fighters anymore.

PPV laugh.gif

I think the question being asked was refering to the Roy's and Floyd's of boxing...so in that regard, I think that Andre Berto and Andre Dirrell have EXCELLENT chances of tearing the sport up.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jun 25 2008, 08:34 AM) [snapback]393695[/snapback]
PPV laugh.gif

I think the question being asked was refering to the Roy's and Floyd's of boxing...so in that regard, I think that Andre Berto and Andre Dirrell have EXCELLENT chances of tearing the sport up.

Don't forget about Andre Ward, and the Perterson Brothers!!!!
D-MARV
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 24 2008, 11:20 PM) [snapback]393666[/snapback]
There just aren't any good black fighters anymore.

I hope that was a Joke!
D-MARV
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jun 25 2008, 12:53 AM) [snapback]393672[/snapback]
There are many good black fighters I can think of, but a lot of you guys are over reacting about the thread. Nobody cries when people ask about the next great white hope. Give it a rest, it wasn't an offensive thread.

QUOTE
But it seems like suddenly, there's a serious lack of American BLACK talent!!
Are they starting to practice MMA in the hoods?? Have major sports taken ALL the true talent??

It's true that other races have stepped up! But two things I dont agree with in this thread. First he said that there is a serious lack in Black Talent, Not True!, this sport is still flooded with Black talent! Secondly, He joked about the hood part! Come on now, Did he have to relate black people to the hood! NOT ALL black fighters come from the hood! Give it a Rest!

OK I'm done with this matter.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 25 2008, 07:56 AM) [snapback]393699[/snapback]
It's true that other races have stepped up! But two things I dont agree with in this thread. First he said that there is a serious lack in Black Talent, Not True!, this sport is still flooded with Black talent! Secondly, He joked about the hood part! Come on now, Did he have to relate black people to the hood! NOT ALL black fighters come from the hood! Give it a Rest!

OK I'm done with this matter.

Spyder
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 25 2008, 08:39 AM) [snapback]393697[/snapback]
Don't forget about Andre Ward, and the Perterson Brothers!!!!

I think that Ward is a little too chinny, but who knows. I just see Berto and Dirrell being on another level.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 25 2008, 07:40 AM) [snapback]393698[/snapback]
I hope that was a Joke!


Of course it fucking was. I can't even believe this thread.
Spyder
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 25 2008, 08:56 AM) [snapback]393699[/snapback]
NOT ALL black fighters come from the hood! Give it a Rest!

Alright, this is a totally different thread, but forget about just BLACK fighters...almost ALL fighters come from the hood. It doesn't matter what color, race, nationality you are, or what part of the world you live in. Boxing has always been a sport for the less fortunate to gravitate to and make better lives for themselves. That's a statement to economics, not race.

The rise of "less abusive" sports like football, baseball, and basketball has given more options, but that still hasn't removed the fact that...Boxing is LARGELY made up of "hood" people trying to make better lives for themselves and their families.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jun 25 2008, 09:11 AM) [snapback]393710[/snapback]
Alright, this is a totally different thread, but forget about just BLACK fighters...almost ALL fighters come from the hood. It doesn't matter what color, race, nationality you are, or what part of the world you live in. Boxing has always been a sport for the less fortunate to gravitate to and make better lives for themselves. That's a statement to economics, not race.

The rise of "less abusive" sports like football, baseball, and basketball has given more options, but that still hasn't removed the fact that...Boxing is LARGELY made up of "hood" people trying to make better lives for themselves and their families.



Thats what I was going to say.

You hardly ever get a black fighter from a high educational background, rich family and good job move into boxing.


The same goes for most boxers. You hardly get a white boxer who comes from a well respected background move into boxing. A large % of boxers start off from a poor background and fight for a decent life.


I think the thread starter just used the 'hood' as a term for where the large % of boxers come from. I t doesn't have to be a black hood. It could be a hood in America, Russia or Japan.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Jun 25 2008, 04:18 PM) [snapback]393720[/snapback]
Thats what I was going to say.

You hardly ever get a black fighter from a high educational background, rich family and good job move into boxing.
The same goes for most boxers. You hardly get a white boxer who comes from a well respected background move into boxing. A large % of boxers start off from a poor background and fight for a decent life.
I think the thread starter just used the 'hood' as a term for where the large % of boxers come from. I t doesn't have to be a black hood. It could be a hood in America, Russia or Japan.



Or Antartica. Where's the next damned ESKIMO hope? I suppose they're all too busy catching fish and huddling to stay warm. Has it never occured to them to try BOXING to get warm? Land a fight with De La Hoya and they could even put central heating in their igloos. Shit, if they can fight polar bears and killer whales they should be good at boxing.





Black
Chi-Town
Prfpimp....don't let these guys make you feel bad. I'm Black myself and I find nothing offensive about the post whatsoever. Similar topics are discussed here regarding every other race and nationality and people think nothing of it.

Although I do believe the list of guys you have rated as the best is a bit biased. Chad Dawson would probably be rated the best at 175 and Nate Campbell is without a doubt the king at lightweight. I also agree with the poster who said that Tim Bradley will probably emerge as the best at 140 in the next couple of years.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jun 24 2008, 11:51 PM) [snapback]393671[/snapback]
Nope, you couldn't argue that Dawson is the best. Calazghe beat the MAN. Hopkins was considered the man at light heavy, he beat Tarver who was considered the champion.

Sorry but no. I have no problems with Calzaghe being considered the best fighter @ lhw, but, he is not the man. Hopkins wasn't the man. Neither was Tarver, Johnson, or Jones. Erdei is the man @ 175...
BoxingStill#1
ironically enough,.....Berto may be the next best thing............
U.S. Champ
the peterson brothers are next up and who started this dumb thread I thought Don Imus worked on the radio anyways the best fighter in the world currently retired happens to be black
anthonyaccurate
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jun 25 2008, 12:51 AM) [snapback]393671[/snapback]
Nope, you couldn't argue that Dawson is the best. Calazghe beat the MAN. Hopkins was considered the man at light heavy, he beat Tarver who was considered the champion. Calazghe beat Hopkins and is not the top dog in the division. It's not really debatable on who the man is IMO. It is Calazghe at 175.
Yes. Refer to my above statement. To be the man you gotta beat the man, and Calazghe did that.



I respectfully disagree. My eyes did not tell me "Thats the man" at 175, from X or Cal, watching that fight.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 25 2008, 09:47 AM) [snapback]393707[/snapback]
Of course it fucking was. I can't even believe this thread.

MMM,
I knew it was! I was just trying to defend you in case other people didn't see it as a joke!
D-MARV
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Jun 25 2008, 11:18 AM) [snapback]393720[/snapback]
Thats what I was going to say.

You hardly ever get a black fighter from a high educational background, rich family and good job move into boxing.
The same goes for most boxers. You hardly get a white boxer who comes from a well respected background move into boxing. A large % of boxers start off from a poor background and fight for a decent life.
I think the thread starter just used the 'hood' as a term for where the large % of boxers come from. I t doesn't have to be a black hood. It could be a hood in America, Russia or Japan.

What you guys are saying makes plenty of sense and I agree!

But this thread was a directly targeting Black americans and I did not like the "hood comment" But Im over it, No hard feelings, let's just move on!
D-MARV
Bernard Hopkins was the Man!!!!

BUt Before the Glen Johnson fight, Dawson had his claim to being the best Light Heavyweight and since the Johnson fight he dropped????

Since when does winning a tough and close decision against Glen Johnson a bad thing?

Spyder
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jun 25 2008, 10:57 PM) [snapback]393784[/snapback]
Bernard Hopkins was the Man!!!!

BUt Before the Glen Johnson fight, Dawson had his claim to being the best Light Heavyweight and since the Johnson fight he dropped????

Since when does winning a tough and close decision against Glen Johnson a bad thing?

A lot of people are not convinced that he "won" that fight.
D-MARV
I thought that was a fair decision!

Dawson clearly outboxed him in the early rounds with Glen coming on late. It was a tough fight but the right man got the decision.
Imperius3
QUOTE(PrfPmp @ Jun 24 2008, 06:49 PM) [snapback]393644[/snapback]
Alright guys, not intended as any kind of slandering thread...but we all know how there's somewhat of an aura
of superiority towards black boxers.
But it seems like suddenly, there's a serious lack of American BLACK talent!!
Are they starting to practice MMA in the hoods?? Have major sports taken ALL the true talent??

To back up this theory, and so no one thinks I'm some clan member doing some good ol bashing......

BEST FIGHTERS-
122 Vazquez and Lopez
130 lbs - Pacquiau phillipino
135 lbs - Casamayor cuban'
140 lbs - Hatton and Malinaggi white
147 lbs - Miguel Cotto
154 lbs - Sergio Mora lol
160 lbs - Pavlik and Abraham
168 lbs - Calzaghe and Kessler
175 lbs - Calzaghe
Heavy - VW!!

Not ONE!!!
Has this ever happened before in boxing??


Casamayor is from Cuba, but he is black my friend!
neophyte7
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Jun 27 2008, 01:43 AM) [snapback]393865[/snapback]
Casamayor is from Cuba, but he is black my friend!



Indeed, the lack of education permeates--- there are many so called "hispanics" who are black-- Casamayor is one of them, but many Hispanics in their cultural ignorance and wanna be white mindest reject all connection with being black. This thread is a bit condescending but not overly offensive.

By the way-- the person referring to Calzaghe as the man is ignorant- he fights a 43 year old and is given an gift decision and yet he is the man??? Please Calzaghe is on borrowed tim and is trying to carefully select a few paydays without much risk--- He was on his ass so fast by Hopkins I am sure Taylor or Pavlik can KO him. His European style is trash and in my view this was very evident against Hopkins where on several instance his punching technique resembled highschool girls fighting. Cal would have to beat Glen JOhnson (who has ducked) or Dawson, or Tarver. Since his win over Hopkins was unemphatic, no way can he be considered the best at 175----
Mino
[quote name='neophyte7' date='Jun 28 2008, 06:49 PM' post='394005']
Indeed, the lack of education permeates--- there are many so called "hispanics" who are black-- Casamayor is one of them, but many Hispanics in their cultural ignorance and wanna be white mindest reject all connection with being black. This thread is a bit condescending but not overly offensive.

What is a so called Hispanic???Pls explain....And thats a pretty big generalization as far as saying cultural ignorance and wanna be white mindset...pretty ignorant buddy.....
neophyte7
Excuse me sir... I once watched an interview with Casamayor--- he stated that he had experienced racism and that he knew that coming to this country would require him being better than "good" ... because in his words he was a " black latino"...

Someone like Felix Trinidad and his worshipping followers from puerto rico, a former plantatation where in 1492 africans outnumbered spaniards(europeans) 5 to 1, seems as if he has no idea that he is an descendant from Africa-- he is the blackest puerto rican since Roberto Clemente-... it reeks of cultural ignorance.... I remember when he and Hopkins were fighting... puerto ricans were on maxboxing.com referring to Hopkins as a "black monkey", "gorilla" etc... some of the comments towards black americans were laughable--- I am a Social Scientist with an advanced degree living in the Bronx... I did not mean to offend anyone, but I stand by my comments. Don't call me ignorant... I did not start the thread, I am only elucidating. I say so called hispanic in reference to people like Pele, David Ortiz, Felix Trinidad... who happen to be black men who speak Spanish.You see, Black people don't claim any territory when saying that they are black... We have no birth record and history records aboriginal people inhabiting every part of the planet... even the caves of europe... This coming from the premis that entire earth is ours and we will not relegate ourselves to a small portion by naming ourselves after pieces of land... peurto rican, american, dominican, haitian etc... The universe is our home and there is no need to connect ourselves with small pieces of land... Blackness is universal principal---

Than being said, fighters like Felix Trinidad are tremendous examples of the greatness of the black athlete in other areas of the world aside from the United States. Cubans generally from my experience seem to be the Hispanics most proud and recognizing of their African roots...

This is actually a good thread that will make for some interesting discussion. THE REAL BLACK HOPE IS TRYING TO OCCUPY THE WHITE HOUSE...
moscow bear
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Jun 29 2008, 05:32 AM) [snapback]394063[/snapback]
Excuse me sir... I once watched an interview with Casamayor--- he stated that he had experienced racism and that he knew that coming to this country would require him being better than "good" ... because in his words he was a " black latino"...

Someone like Felix Trinidad and his worshipping followers from puerto rico, a former plantatation where in 1492 africans outnumbered spaniards(europeans) 5 to 1, seems as if he has no idea that he is an descendant from Africa-- he is the blackest puerto rican since Roberto Clemente-... it reeks of cultural ignorance.... I remember when he and Hopkins were fighting... puerto ricans were on maxboxing.com referring to Hopkins as a "black monkey", "gorilla" etc... some of the comments towards black americans were laughable--- I am a Social Scientist with an advanced degree living in the Bronx... I did not mean to offend anyone, but I stand by my comments. Don't call me ignorant... I did not start the thread, I am only elucidating. I say so called hispanic in reference to people like Pele, David Ortiz, Felix Trinidad... who happen to be black men who speak Spanish.You see, Black people don't claim any territory when saying that they are black... We have no birth record and history records aboriginal people inhabiting every part of the planet... even the caves of europe... This coming from the premis that entire earth is ours and we will not relegate ourselves to a small portion by naming ourselves after pieces of land... peurto rican, american, dominican, haitian etc... The universe is our home and there is no need to connect ourselves with small pieces of land... Blackness is universal principal---

Than being said, fighters like Felix Trinidad are tremendous examples of the greatness of the black athlete in other areas of the world aside from the United States. Cubans generally from my experience seem to be the Hispanics most proud and recognizing of their African roots...

This is actually a good thread that will make for some interesting discussion. THE REAL BLACK HOPE IS TRYING TO OCCUPY THE WHITE HOUSE...


dude, being a social scientist with an advanced degree, you might wanna know that Pele spoke/speaks Portugese, not Spanish.
Brazilians dont even consider themselves hispanic.
neophyte7
I appreciate your information in regards to Brazilians not considering themselves Hispanic...You said a mouthfull when you used the phrase" Consider themselves"... Language does not dictate ethnicity but rather reflects colonialism, and conquest. Now in regards to your comment on the portuguese who happen to be of the earliest slave traders, Portguese and Spanish languages are closely related with degrees of mutual intelligibility- -both languages belong the group of languages called West Iberian... Portugal is a european nation birthed in the 15 and 16th centuries. Pele speaking portuguese does not make him European--- The original inhabitants of Brazil were the Arawak and Carib Indian groups- both groups have connections to Hispanic and Carrribean origins-- The slave trade of course saw the influx of a great number of africans...Brazil is now said to contain more descendants from Africa than any place in the world with the exception of Africa itself...

The Black Hope subject of this thread seems only applicable to the heavyweight division. I have not seen any black heavyweight that can be champion or beat Klitschko--- I am not relegating it to black americans-- Sam Peter is horrible and on borrowed time with the belts he holds.
anthonyaccurate
clapping.gif I'm glad someone addressed this issue. Its strange, some people act like the language you speak and culture you live in changes your race, or that it only applies to descendants from Africa. How many different European countries are there? Are Germans a different race than the French? Why is Halle Berry considered "black", but South Americans with darker features and kinkier hair "not"? I'm black; if I was born and raised in Japan, am I now Japanese? Its seems this flawed logic only comes out when people want to avoid identifying themselves as "black" or any word describing a group descended from Africa.

BTW, in the last U.S. census, 81% of native Puerto Ricans identified themselves as "white"......
Mino
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Jun 29 2008, 01:32 AM) [snapback]394063[/snapback]
Excuse me sir... I once watched an interview with Casamayor--- he stated that he had experienced racism and that he knew that coming to this country would require him being better than "good" ... because in his words he was a " black latino"...

Someone like Felix Trinidad and his worshipping followers from puerto rico, a former plantatation where in 1492 africans outnumbered spaniards(europeans) 5 to 1, seems as if he has no idea that he is an descendant from Africa-- he is the blackest puerto rican since Roberto Clemente-... it reeks of cultural ignorance.... I remember when he and Hopkins were fighting... puerto ricans were on maxboxing.com referring to Hopkins as a "black monkey", "gorilla" etc... some of the comments towards black americans were laughable--- I am a Social Scientist with an advanced degree living in the Bronx... I did not mean to offend anyone, but I stand by my comments. Don't call me ignorant... I did not start the thread, I am only elucidating. I say so called hispanic in reference to people like Pele, David Ortiz, Felix Trinidad... who happen to be black men who speak Spanish.You see, Black people don't claim any territory when saying that they are black... We have no birth record and history records aboriginal people inhabiting every part of the planet... even the caves of europe... This coming from the premis that entire earth is ours and we will not relegate ourselves to a small portion by naming ourselves after pieces of land... peurto rican, american, dominican, haitian etc... The universe is our home and there is no need to connect ourselves with small pieces of land... Blackness is universal principal---

Than being said, fighters like Felix Trinidad are tremendous examples of the greatness of the black athlete in other areas of the world aside from the United States. Cubans generally from my experience seem to be the Hispanics most proud and recognizing of their African roots...

This is actually a good thread that will make for some interesting discussion. THE REAL BLACK HOPE IS TRYING TO OCCUPY THE WHITE HOUSE...

As far as certain ppl refering that way to Hopkins at that time is just plain ol ignorance...And I would think that someone with ur level of education would not generalize that way...Yes there are certain Hispanics who deny thier African roots which is sad more than anything..But just as there are those who deny it there are just as many that embrace it such as myself who is PR ...And as far as the comment about So Called Hispanics, I disagree...While they are indeed Black someone like David Ortiz would consider himself Dominican 1st maybe a Black Dominican but yet Domincan being as that where he was born and raised and what is parents and grandparents are....But either way interesting conversation
Mino
QUOTE(anthonyaccurate @ Jun 29 2008, 11:04 AM) [snapback]394111[/snapback]
clapping.gif I'm glad someone addressed this issue. Its strange, some people act like the language you speak and culture you live in changes your race, or that it only applies to descendants from Africa. How many different European countries are there? Are Germans a different race than the French? Why is Halle Berry considered "black", but South Americans with darker features and kinkier hair "not"? I'm black; if I was born and raised in Japan, am I now Japanese? Its seems this flawed logic only comes out when people want to avoid identifying themselves as "black" or any word describing a group descended from Africa.

BTW, in the last U.S. census, 81% of native Puerto Ricans identified themselves as "white"......

If you dont mind can you pls post a link citing the source of that stat...
neophyte7
QUOTE(Mino @ Jun 29 2008, 11:12 AM) [snapback]394112[/snapback]
As far as certain ppl refering that way to Hopkins at that time is just plain ol ignorance...And I would think that someone with ur level of education would not generalize that way...Yes there are certain Hispanics who deny thier African roots which is sad more than anything..But just as there are those who deny it there are just as many that embrace it such as myself who is PR ...And as far as the comment about So Called Hispanics, I disagree...While they are indeed Black someone like David Ortiz would consider himself Dominican 1st maybe a Black Dominican but yet Domincan being as that where he was born and raised and what is parents and grandparents are....But either way interesting conversation



Not trying to generalize... and I apologize if I offended anyone. I am from Detroit, but have lived and worked amongst black and latino's for about 15 years in New York City and base my comments on case related observations in my field of practice... The individual speaks facts about the Puerto Rico census--- wow --- the question of race was left out of the puerto rican census reports since the 1950's. Considerations for race reports surfaced after 1992 election of Pedro Rosello of the New Progressive party who used the census tool as the United States does. The result was a whopping 80.5% stating that they were white. The one drop rule(one drop of black blood making you non white) is what guides racial identification in the United States, is different in Puerto Rico. African ancestry is a powerful factor in categorization in the United States, but in contrast In Puerto Rico, the combination of color, type of hair, socioeconmic status, and gender, exalts EUROPEAN ANCESTRY MORE THAN AFRICAN ANCESTRY(Dominguez, 2008).

Dominguez, V., R.(2008, June). Puerto Rico's Puzzle: Race Politics and Imperial Primaries. Dissident Voice.
Mino
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Jun 29 2008, 12:00 PM) [snapback]394116[/snapback]
Not trying to generalize... and I apologize if I offended anyone. I am from Detroit, but have lived and worked amongst black and latino's for about 15 years in New York City and base my comments on case related observations in my field of practice... The individual speaks facts about the Puerto Rico census--- wow --- the question of race was left out of the puerto rican census reports since the 1950's. Considerations for race reports surfaced after 1992 election of Pedro Rosello of the New Progressive party who used the census tool as the United States does. The result was a whopping 80.5% stating that they were white. The one drop rule(one drop of black blood making you non white) is what guides racial identification in the United States, is different in Puerto Rico. African ancestry is a powerful factor in categorization in the United States, but in contrast In Puerto Rico, the combination of color, type of hair, socioeconmic status, and gender, exalts EUROPEAN ANCESTRY MORE THAN AFRICAN ANCESTRY(Dominguez, 2008).

Dominguez, V., R.(2008, June). Puerto Rico's Puzzle: Race Politics and Imperial Primaries. Dissident Voice.

Well Done..I for myself am not offended and actually enjoy the conv...and actually now looking forward to a good read,thanks for the Info....
PrfPmp
For the record, and for anyone who misinterpreted what I originally posted, what I meant was...

As far back as I can remember, there has always been a few dominant AMERICAN black champions in the sport. SUPERSTARS
Jones Jr, Hopkins, Mosley, Whitaker, Tyson, Holyfield, Toney, Pryor, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, ect.....

I know for each generation there are MANY Im not even naming.

RIGHT NOW, theres not a single one!!! I dont mean 2 years from now, who might be, who could be, so on and so on.

All those "future" greats are one possible punch away from never becoming ANYTHING of significance in the sport.

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED IN THE SPORT?

And my reasons for these thought are not at all racial...Im worried that boxing really is DYING IN AMERICA!!
I might be wrong but in my mind, (and I played every major sport except soccer in high school) blacks are ATHLETICALLY superior to whites and it seems like the truly talented blacks are no longer boxing.
PrfPmp
For the record, and for anyone who misinterpreted what I originally posted, what I meant was...

As far back as I can remember, there has always been a few dominant AMERICAN black champions in the sport. SUPERSTARS
Jones Jr, Hopkins, Mosley, Whitaker, Tyson, Holyfield, Toney, Pryor, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, ect.....

I know for each generation there are MANY Im not even naming.

RIGHT NOW, theres not a single one!!! I dont mean 2 years from now, who might be, who could be, so on and so on.

All those "future" greats are one possible punch away from never becoming ANYTHING of significance in the sport.

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED IN THE SPORT?

And my reasons for these thought are not at all racial...Im worried that boxing really is DYING IN AMERICA!!
I might be wrong but in my mind, (and I played every major sport except soccer in high school) blacks are ATHLETICALLY superior to whites and it seems like the truly talented blacks are no longer boxing.
moscow bear
QUOTE(PrfPmp @ Jun 30 2008, 03:06 AM) [snapback]394172[/snapback]
For the record, and for anyone who misinterpreted what I originally posted, what I meant was...

As far back as I can remember, there has always been a few dominant AMERICAN black champions in the sport. SUPERSTARS
Jones Jr, Hopkins, Mosley, Whitaker, Tyson, Holyfield, Toney, Pryor, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, ect.....

I know for each generation there are MANY Im not even naming.

RIGHT NOW, theres not a single one!!! I dont mean 2 years from now, who might be, who could be, so on and so on.

All those "future" greats are one possible punch away from never becoming ANYTHING of significance in the sport.

HAS THIS EVER HAPPENED IN THE SPORT?

And my reasons for these thought are not at all racial...Im worried that boxing really is DYING IN AMERICA!!
I might be wrong but in my mind, (and I played every major sport except soccer in high school) blacks are ATHLETICALLY superior to whites and it seems like the truly talented blacks are no longer boxing.


boxing is also more international now, and the competition is tougher. I also do NOT believe in the general athletic superiority (black or white). Why are white europeans hired by the NBA? In soccer for instance, there was a period when the best players were mostly black, now they are mostly white, and i am sure it will change again soon.
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