Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Is Klitschko the Most Overrated Heavyweight Champ Ever
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2
U.S. Champ
We all know that Wlad possesses some unbelievable skills stiff jab, nice left hook and a Monster right hand but in my opinion he hasn't fought anybody that posed a real threat. I could be wrong but he smells a little overrated
rusty_trombone
Uh, I don't know anyone who rates him that high, he's just the best we have now
ROLL DEEP
Thats what I was thinking.


Nobody actually says he's any good. He's the best out of the worst heavyweight line up in history.




Actually, lets change this thread to:

Is todays current crop of heavyweights the WORST ever?


I'd probably say 'yes'. Can't think of a time when they were so bad and lacking in talent and up-and-coming stars.
JD
Don't you need to be rated highly to be overrated?

He is top dog today, that's about it.
Tha Docta
i think hes rated just fine. everyone knows the man has solid offensive skills but absolutely hates getting hit and has a weak chin to go along with questionable stamina. hes not overrated at all.
DG
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 9 2008, 12:22 PM) [snapback]395351[/snapback]
i think hes rated just fine. everyone knows the man has solid offensive skills but absolutely hates getting hit and has a weak chin to go along with questionable stamina. hes not overrated at all.


Why everybody have to mention questionable stamina is beyond me. Please show me when his stamina was a factor outside the Brewster fight? This guy probably the best prepared athlete in HW division. He is the ONLY HW that at least you can bet that will show up in shape for his next fight.
stevennall
QUOTE(DG @ Jul 9 2008, 12:12 PM) [snapback]395353[/snapback]
Why everybody have to mention questionable stamina is beyond me. Please show me when his stamina was a factor outside the Brewster fight? This guy probably the best prepared athlete in HW division. He is the ONLY HW that at least you can bet that will show up in shape for his next fight.

I think Wlad was tired as hell by the end of the Sam Peter fight, but so was Sam. There were a couple of times earlier in that fight where it seemed that Wlad "hit a wall" in terms of stamina, but he made it through all 12 rounds and finished up pretty strongly in rounds 11 and 12.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(stevennall @ Jul 9 2008, 01:23 PM) [snapback]395354[/snapback]
I think Wlad was tired as hell by the end of the Sam Peter fight, but so was Sam. There were a couple of times earlier in that fight where it seemed that Wlad "hit a wall" in terms of stamina, but he made it through all 12 rounds and finished up pretty strongly in rounds 11 and 12.


yeah, the peter fight is what i was thinking of. obviously the brewster fight, but in the peter fight he seemed to fall down more from exhaustion than from getting hit with clean punches.

wlads problem is he fights nervous and uses up alot of energy that way. the man never fights relaxed.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(stevennall @ Jul 9 2008, 12:23 PM) [snapback]395354[/snapback]
I think Wlad was tired as hell by the end of the Sam Peter fight, but so was Sam. There were a couple of times earlier in that fight where it seemed that Wlad "hit a wall" in terms of stamina, but he made it through all 12 rounds and finished up pretty strongly in rounds 11 and 12.

First off, the little Klit is NOT the HW champion. He's a belt holder. Second, the Klit is a viscious KO waiting to happen...
stevennall
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 9 2008, 12:28 PM) [snapback]395355[/snapback]
yeah, the peter fight is what i was thinking of. obviously the brewster fight, but in the peter fight he seemed to fall down more from exhaustion than from getting hit with clean punches.

wlads problem is he fights nervous and uses up alot of energy that way. the man never fights relaxed.

Same thing with Oscar and Jermain Taylor. If those guys could loosen up in the ring and fight as relaxed as Pavlik or J Toney, they wouldn't be sucking wind after 7 or 8 rounds.

I swear. I think Jermain looked more relaxed in the ring the second time around with Pavlik. It's like he said, "Okay. I know how hard he can hit now, so I know what I'm up against." It surprised me that JT seemed more relaxed when fighting the rematch with a guy who knocked him unconscious five months previously.
BigG
Klitshcko is just the best of a pathetic era of Heavyweights. I dont even care about the division anymore.
stevennall
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Jul 9 2008, 12:50 PM) [snapback]395361[/snapback]
Klitshcko is just the best of a pathetic era of Heavyweights. I dont even care about the division anymore.

Can you imagine how good LeBron James would be if he had started boxing as a little kid? He's 6'8" 250 lbs, and has the speed, intelligence, reflexes, and coordination to be one of the two or three best basketball players on Earth.

In my opinion, he'd be HW Champ for a while.
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(stevennall @ Jul 9 2008, 01:01 PM) [snapback]395363[/snapback]
Can you imagine how good LeBron James would be if he had started boxing as a little kid? He's 6'8" 250 lbs, and has the speed, intelligence, reflexes, and coordination to be one of the two or three best basketball players on Earth.

In my opinion, he'd be HW Champ for a while.

You have to have a sturdy chin also
BigG
QUOTE(stevennall @ Jul 9 2008, 06:01 PM) [snapback]395363[/snapback]
Can you imagine how good LeBron James would be if he had started boxing as a little kid? He's 6'8" 250 lbs, and has the speed, intelligence, reflexes, and coordination to be one of the two or three best basketball players on Earth.

In my opinion, he'd be HW Champ for a while.


I don't know about that....boxing is also about mental toughness...of course he'd have the physical tools but mental toughess, I dunno.
Maxy
Wlad being champ for as long as he has just highlights how dire the heavyweight division is right now, and there doesn't appear to be anyone out there who can bring some spark back to it.

They used to say that the 80's (before Tyson erupted) were bad for heavyweight boxing but shit, it was a mile better than it is today.
thehype
QUOTE(Maxy @ Jul 9 2008, 04:11 PM) [snapback]395381[/snapback]
Wlad being champ for as long as he has just highlights how dire the heavyweight division is right now, and there doesn't appear to be anyone out there who can bring some spark back to it.

They used to say that the 80's (before Tyson erupted) were bad for heavyweight boxing but shit, it was a mile better than it is today.


+1000000000

clapping.gif
stateofthegame
It does not matter, Tony Thompson will be the belt holder after Saturday.
D-MARV
QUOTE(stateofthegame @ Jul 9 2008, 05:23 PM) [snapback]395387[/snapback]
It does not matter, Tony Thompson will be the belt holder after Saturday.

My Man!
good pick thumbsup_anim.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Jul 9 2008, 01:29 PM) [snapback]395356[/snapback]
First off, the little Klit is NOT the HW champion. He's a belt holder. Second, the Klit is a viscious KO waiting to happen...

Klit is the Heavyweight Champ for now! He holds two titles and has a victory over the #2 fighter in the division!
rusty_trombone
you have to forgive nay_sayer, he can't get past the semantics of boxing.
D-MARV
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Jul 9 2008, 07:24 PM) [snapback]395400[/snapback]
you have to forgive nay_sayer, he can't get past the semantics of boxing.

Gotcha!
King Eugene
I dont think he is over rated. Hell I dont think he is rated that high but he does keep winning. He is the best out there right now (until he meets Samuel Peters) that is but despite all the negativity towards him he just fundamentally out boxes everybody. Just cause he isn't a big knockout artist doesnt mean he isnt good. It just means he fights for himself and not the fans.
D-MARV
Samuel Peter is more overrated than Wladimir!!!!!!!
Fpsnut
QUOTE
I think Wlad was tired as hell by the end of the Sam Peter fight, but so was Sam. There were a couple of times earlier in that fight where it seemed that Wlad "hit a wall" in terms of stamina, but he made it through all 12 rounds and finished up pretty strongly in rounds 11 and 12.


The man was throwing 70-100 shots for first half of the fight. Of course he's going to be tired. If anything, throwing that many shots shows his stamina is really good.
BigG
Wlad IMO beats Peter. I dont know if anyone get beat Wlad....but his chin is glass.
torvix2000
The problem is that that is no counterpart for GOOD and EVIL nowadays. No person who will stop a devastator machine. No roles of hero and villain. No hero versus invader.

No Holyfield to stop a rampaging Tyson.
No Ali and Foreman. Or Ali and Frazier.

Nothing.

One thing though. Lewis got clocked twice.

D-MARV
You know what... The heavyweight division is heating up! Next year we will have a lot of fights avaliable.
Here's the list!
Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko, (if he stays healthy)
Sam Peter
Nicolay Valuev
Tony Thompson
Sultan Ibragimov
Chris Arreola
David Haye
Kevin Johnson
Malik Scott
Juan Carlos Gomez
Vladimir Virchis
Alex Povetkin
Eddie Chambers, (if he gets serious)
Sultan Ibragimov
Young guys like Estrada and Solis can make a little noise!

And its always fun to see Danny Williams get knocked around for 8 rounds!

There's a lot of dead weight we need to get rid of... Hasim Rahman, James TOney, Oleg Maskaev, John Ruiz, David Tua, etc

but i think the heavyweight division is starting to pick up!
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jul 9 2008, 04:31 PM) [snapback]395391[/snapback]
Klit is the Heavyweight Champ for now! He holds two titles and has a victory over the #2 fighter in the division!

Belts mean shit. That victory came before the #2 HW in the world was ranked #2. And exactly who deemed the little Klit to be The HW champ?

Klit = belt holder. HW Title = vacant.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 9 2008, 08:45 PM) [snapback]395415[/snapback]
Haha. He is unified and beaten just about every top heavyweight.

Corrie Sanders?!?

Ross Purrity?!?
Douchebag
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Jul 10 2008, 10:07 AM) [snapback]395437[/snapback]
Belts mean shit. That victory came before the #2 HW in the world was ranked #2. And exactly who deemed the little Klit to be The HW champ?

Klit = belt holder. HW Title = vacant.



Who does Klit have to fight in order to be the "Champ"?
Big Slim Sweet
The little Klit owns 2 of the 4 belts, plus a win over 1 of the other 2 belt holders. If he beats the Giant or the Chagaev he'll be the new linear champ I'm afraid.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 10 2008, 11:53 AM) [snapback]395447[/snapback]
Lewis retired as the heavyweight champion. The linear line is lost. Considering Klitschko has beaten all top contenders recently and holds the majority of the belts, he is the champion at heavyweight. There is absolutely no way any of the other heavyweights can claim to be higher than Wlad at this point. This actually shouldn't even be debatable.



it really isnt debatable, but he will keep on with his argument as if it makes sense. its pretty easy to tell that his hatred for wlad is the reason he doesnt want him to be considered the heavyweight champ. funny how he considers the title vacant though, cause that makes alot of sense.
Nay_Sayer
Even the cum sucking goons over @ HBO won't go as far as to claim that the little Klit is champ.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Jul 10 2008, 10:10 AM) [snapback]395444[/snapback]
Who does Klit have to fight in order to be the "Champ"?

The little Klit needs to clean out the division.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 10 2008, 11:48 AM) [snapback]395456[/snapback]
it really isnt debatable, but he will keep on with his argument as if it makes sense. its pretty easy to tell that his hatred for wlad is the reason he doesnt want him to be considered the heavyweight champ. funny how he considers the title vacant though, cause that makes alot of sense.

Maybe then you would like to explain exactly what qualifies the little Klit to be the HW champ?
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Jul 10 2008, 12:59 PM) [snapback]395459[/snapback]
The little Klit needs to clean out the division.



but who does he have to fight?? does he have to beat every heavyweight on the planet? do you have someone specific in mind that he has to beat? for some reason i dont think you know the answer.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 10 2008, 12:11 PM) [snapback]395463[/snapback]
Ever heard of a unification?

Yes, and the little Klit is short two belts...
Tha Docta
im guessing he means that Wlad has to beat Changaev to be considered the champ. which is about as idiotic as it gets.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 10 2008, 12:16 PM) [snapback]395465[/snapback]
but who does he have to fight?? does he have to beat every heavyweight on the planet? do you have someone specific in mind that he has to beat? for some reason i dont think you know the answer.

Here are the top ten HWs according to ESPN.com

QUOTE
1. Wladimir Klitschko (50-3)
2. Samuel Peter (30-1)
3. Ruslan Chagaev (24-0-1)
4. Nikolai Valuev (48-1)
5. Alexander Povetkin (15-0)
6. John Ruiz (43-7-1)
7. Oleg Maskaev (34-6)
8. Sultan Ibragimov (22-1-1)
9. Hasim Rahman (45-6-2)
10. Tony "The Tiger" Thompson (30-1)

Now, since claiming the IBF trinket from Byrd, Klitscho has beat Brock, Austin, Brewster, and Ibragimov. The only victory here that has any significance, besides the Byrd victory, is Ibragimov. Quite frankly, and I hate to substantiate the sanctioning mobs, Klitscho has to rematch Peter and fight Chagaev to be recoginzed as the true champ @ HW, IMO. And yes, I know, he already decisioned Peter. That may be the case, BUT, Peter wasn't ranked #2 in the world when he dropped the UD to Klitscho. In the grand scheme of things, that win is more or less meaningless given Peter's recent body of work, which, IMO, is on par or even better than Klitscho's recent wins.
BigG
QUOTE
1. Wladimir Klitschko (50-3)
2. Samuel Peter (30-1)
3. Ruslan Chagaev (24-0-1)
4. Nikolai Valuev (48-1)
5. Alexander Povetkin (15-0)
6. John Ruiz (43-7-1)
7. Oleg Maskaev (34-6)
8. Sultan Ibragimov (22-1-1)
9. Hasim Rahman (45-6-2)
10. Tony "The Tiger" Thompson (30-1)


Crappiest top 10 ever? Maskaev and Rahman?
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Jul 10 2008, 01:52 PM) [snapback]395473[/snapback]
Here are the top ten HWs according to ESPN.com
Now, since claiming the IBF trinket from Byrd, Klitscho has beat Brock, Austin, Brewster, and Ibragimov. The only victory here that has any significance, besides the Byrd victory, is Ibragimov. Quite frankly, and I hate to substantiate the sanctioning mobs, Klitscho has to rematch Peter and fight Chagaev to be recoginzed as the true champ @ HW, IMO. And yes, I know, he already decisioned Peter. That may be the case, BUT, Peter wasn't ranked #2 in the world when he dropped the UD to Klitscho. In the grand scheme of things, that win is more or less meaningless given Peter's recent body of work, which, IMO, is on par or even better than Klitscho's recent wins.



why is the victory meaningless, because Peter looked so good against Jameel Mccline? changaev's claim to fame is outpointing Valuev. not sure how he even qualifies as a contender using your criteria. I would hate to see what Wlad would do to Maskaev or James Toney. we already saw what he did to Mccline. i believe brock, ibragimov & Byrd would be considered the tougher opposition.
buford54
It's a lose lose for Wlad because the division is crap.
I honestly think he'd outpoint or KO Peter late in a rematch. Everyone thinks Peter is the 2nd coming because he decided to counter-punch with James Toney.
Let's not forget that at HW the only force that a punch from a 238 lb Toney carries is the weight of the flab that is behind it. No worries counter-punching with that.
But he tried that with McCline and nearly ended up in the 3rd row.

Wlad would will dance the "Steward Jab'N'Grab" on Peter until he's ready to collapse, then may stop him late.

But if he dominates Peter, he'll get no credit because he already beat him once. He'll get the whole "of course he can beat a guy that's smaller than him, he just follows Lennox's formula...but he can't fight guys his own size."
If he fights and beats Valuev, it will be, "That guy was huge and slow...but Wlad can't beat someone with speed and power."
No matter who from that list he beats, he'll get no credit.

I can't believe that Rahman is on that list. He was given a belt by a retiring champ after beating 5 nobodies, then got knocked out in his first defense against the ONE person in the world that he really needed to not lose to.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 10 2008, 01:20 PM) [snapback]395478[/snapback]
why is the victory meaningless, because Peter looked so good against Jameel Mccline?

No. Becuase Peter has obviously improved - and his #2 ranking BTW, which he didn't have @ the time he faced the little Klit, reflects this truth.

QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 10 2008, 12:33 PM) [snapback]395469[/snapback]
changaev's claim to fame is outpointing Valuev. not sure how he even qualifies as a contender using your criteria.

Chagaev's claim to fame is the Valuev and Ruiz victories which, in my mind, is as good as anything Peter or the little Klit have done recently.


QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 10 2008, 12:33 PM) [snapback]395469[/snapback]
I would hate to see what Wlad would do to Maskaev or James Toney. we already saw what he did to Mccline. i believe brock, ibragimov & Byrd would be considered the tougher opposition.

Well, I also would have liked to see what would have happened if those fights came off but the little Klit's handlers wont let him in the same time zone with someone who has a pulse. That's why the Peter rematch isn't going to happen any time soon.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jul 10 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]395485[/snapback]
But if he dominates Peter, he'll get no credit because he already beat him once.

Well, he certainly didn't dominate Peter the first time. As I recall, Peter had the baby Klit on queer street quite a few times. That fight was closer than what the scorecards reflect.


QUOTE(buford54 @ Jul 10 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]395485[/snapback]
He'll get the whole "of course he can beat a guy that's smaller than him, he just follows Lennox's formula...but he can't fight guys his own size."

I remember the baby Klit doing a lot of running in the Peter fight. Can't ever recall Lennox running from anyone.


QUOTE(buford54 @ Jul 10 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]395485[/snapback]
If he fights and beats Valuev, it will be, "That guy was huge and slow...but Wlad can't beat someone with speed and power." No matter who from that list he beats, he'll get no credit.

We'll never know because the baby Klit _wont_ fight Valuev.


QUOTE(buford54 @ Jul 10 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]395485[/snapback]
I can't believe that Rahman is on that list. He was given a belt by a retiring champ after beating 5 nobodies, then got knocked out in his first defense against the ONE person in the world that he really needed to not lose to.

That sounds an awful lot like the first two WBO title reigns of the baby Klit, doesn't it?
JD
LOL...this thread was already done once before...

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.php?showtopic=20173

Enjoy.
FenderDG3
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Jul 10 2008, 02:52 PM) [snapback]395491[/snapback]
Well, he certainly didn't dominate Peter the first time. As I recall, Peter had the baby Klit on queer street quite a few times. That fight was closer than what the scorecards reflect.
I remember the baby Klit doing a lot of running in the Peter fight. Can't ever recall Lennox running from anyone.
We'll never know because the baby Klit _wont_ fight Valuev.
That sounds an awful lot like the first two WBO title reigns of the baby Klit, doesn't it?


Um... Peter definitely knocked Klitschko down three times in that fight. However, I wouldn't go as far to say that he had Klitschko on "queer street".
D-MARV
All Peter showed was that he can throw a good punch to the back of a head!

Klit had Peter on queer street on more than one occasion! I remember the "check" left hook that had Peter asleep for a split second! LOL
buford54
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Jul 10 2008, 03:52 PM) [snapback]395491[/snapback]
Well, he certainly didn't dominate Peter the first time. As I recall, Peter had the baby Klit on queer street quite a few times. That fight was closer than what the scorecards reflect.
I remember the baby Klit doing a lot of running in the Peter fight. Can't ever recall Lennox running from anyone.
We'll never know because the baby Klit _wont_ fight Valuev.
That sounds an awful lot like the first two WBO title reigns of the baby Klit, doesn't it?



That's some nice hatred right there.
Wlad is doing exactly what Lennox did...they have the same trainer. Stay outside, jabjabjabjabjabjabjabjabjab BIG RIGHT grab.
It's not really running, it's moving out of the way when a David Tua or Sam Peter tries to charge in on you. I saw almost no difference between Lewis/Tua and Klitschko/Peter, except the 3 knockdowns.

I also didn't see Wlad on queer street. I saw a big man, terrified of being hit and he was pretty much tripping over himself to get out of the way. I don't remember any of Peter's punches landing flush, and I don't remember Wlad ever struggling to recover.

I don't know why you say he WON'T fight Valuev. He was talking about that fight when Valuev had a belt, then Valuev lost the belt to Chagaev. I'm sure it could happen if Valuev beats Ruiz (questionable) and gets the belt back.

Tha Docta
as JD said, this is an old argument with naysayer. its obvious that he is a bit dillusional when it comes to fighters that he dislikes. he can talk about how Wlad has to fight Valuev (whos biggest victory is a win over ruiz. yup, the same ruiz that was beaten by 2 super middleweights.) or Changaev whos biggest victory is over Valuev. doesnt matter what makes sense, he will keep throwing names out there of guys that wlad needs to fight.

but i have to ask, who would every other heavyweight in the division have to fight to be taken seriously and become the true heavyweight champ??

Sam Peter
Changaev
Valuev
Povetkin
Arreola
Dimetrenko

The answer is Wlad Klitchko. Nobody will every take any of these guys seriously until they beat Wlad.
BigJuicyHog
Wow, naysayer is a complete troll. No use arguing with him. He seems to have an irrational hatred of Wlad Klitchko and will spew utter garbage to downgrade him. Wlad is the best HW in a pretty weak division. That is a fact.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.