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Byrd Man
Okay so I was sick earlier today and went to bed. I woke up about 12:30 east coast time and got online and found out that Margarito had won the fight. As soon as I realized this I was really pissed off.

not because I care about Cotto or Margarito, because I don't.

Because I knew what was coming. I knew the argument someone was going to make which is one of the all time most ridiculous arguments anyone can make in Boxing.

So let me set this up for you.

I got to a hip hop forum I'm on, and the subject of one of the posts (without remembering the exact title) essentially was "Margarito beats down Cotto"

So as soon as I saw that my heart dropped a bit and I knew what was coming.

I open the thread and SURE ENOUGH!

I'm quoting directly here:

QUOTE
And Yall Think Cotto Can Beat Floyd Mayweather Or Paul Williams

Knock It Offf !!!


And Dont Forget Paul Williams Beat Antonio Margarito


Now, how retarded is that?

By that logic, Once Lennox dropped his fight to Oliver McCall the argument shoulda been "HA, and people thought he'd beat Tyson, come on now."

How stupid can people be?

And I fucking KNEW that argument was coming. In my opinion Mayweather has ducked Cotto for so long just PRAYING that he would get beat so he could say "see, told you he wasn't worth fighting"

Fucking shameful. I wanna beat someone to death when they trot out that argument. Seriously.
BoxingStill#1
Im with you my friend,,,,Although that may seem, one-sided coming from from a Cotto fan....


The sad fact is Margarito will not be able to beat anybody else in the division...

Just a bad match-up for Cotto...

Cudos to Cotto for taking the fight.....

Cotto lost not because he didnt prepare, or because he got out classed, but because he fought a (natural) Jr. middle wieght or perhaps a middle wieght contender.....

Just that quickly a possible legend is put into (journeyman status),..........this is not good for boxing...

Yes I am upset,....but this is boxing.......Its almost becoming as disapointing as UFC....Ha, take it as you may........But everyone has been defeated much like the UFC...with the exception of a slapping Joe,....or even a one dementional Pavlik..............
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
You dont think Margarito could beat Paul Williams? I believe last summer they fought a closely contested battle that was decided by a point or so. That fight could of went either way, and if Margarito starts quick like he did tonight and the Cintron fight, he will beat Williams. I think he can also beat contenders like Collazo, Clottey, Judah, and Quintana. Margarito is a tough fighter and can beat a lot of fighters out there.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 02:02 AM) [snapback]397315[/snapback]
Im with you my friend,,,,Although that may seem, one-sided coming from from a Cotto fan....
The sad fact is Margarito will not be able to beat anybody else in the division...

Just a bad match-up for Cotto...

Cudos to Cotto for taking the fight.....

Cotto lost not because he didnt prepare, or because he got out classed, but because he fought a (natural) Jr. middle wieght or perhaps a middle wieght contender.....

Just that quickly a possible legend is put into (journeyman status),..........this is not good for boxing...

Yes I am upset,....but this is boxing.......Its almost becoming as disapointing as UFC....Ha, take it as you may........But everyone has been defeated much like the UFC...with the exception of a slapping Joe,....or even a one dementional Pavlik..............



Whut??? Margarito wont be able to beat anyone else in the division?? Are you crazy?? Or is that a Joke?? If it is the mutherfukin LOL!!!...

Margarito beats Mosley, Judah, Clottey, Collazo, Berto and the list goes on. I thin Williams may have his number, but how long can that 6'4" bastid stay at WW??


You're funny...

BigG
I Agree Fitz...since PBF is totally saftey first, he might just beat Marg in a fight similar to the Baldomir/DLH fights.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 27 2008, 02:31 AM) [snapback]397334[/snapback]
I agree with what you are saying. I must admit I used to say Margarito is garbage, and I was always a little bit harsh, but I came around a little bit after Margarito beat Cintron the second time.
The only thing I'm concerned about is that people will put too much stock into Margarito. When in reality, before this fight started I along with many others knew that Cotto was the superior fighter but this was a really bad match up for Cotto. Cotto being the better fighter showed early on also.
The difference was that Margarito was bigger, stronger and more durable.

I still maintain that Mayweather would have an absolute field day with Margarito. What you saw early on from Cotto and how he was school Margarito early in the fight, that is what Mayweather would do for 12 rounds. It would actually look similar to the Baldomir fight.
It's all about styles. Cotto would give Mayweather a tougher fight than Margarito. Just styles, I just hope people keep a cool head and realise this was kinda nothing more than a styles makes fight scenario.



thank you well spoken,,,,
Byrd Man
so how long before PBF totally dismisses Cotto and says that this shows what he's known all along?

Seriously....that interview is coming shortly.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 27 2008, 02:31 AM) [snapback]397334[/snapback]
I agree with what you are saying. I must admit I used to say Margarito is garbage, and I was always a little bit harsh, but I came around a little bit after Margarito beat Cintron the second time.
The only thing I'm concerned about is that people will put too much stock into Margarito. When in reality, before this fight started I along with many others knew that Cotto was the superior fighter but this was a really bad match up for Cotto. Cotto being the better fighter showed early on also.
The difference was that Margarito was bigger, stronger and more durable.

I still maintain that Mayweather would have an absolute field day with Margarito. What you saw early on from Cotto and how he was school Margarito early in the fight, that is what Mayweather would do for 12 rounds. It would actually look similar to the Baldomir fight.
It's all about styles. Cotto would give Mayweather a tougher fight than Margarito. Just styles, I just hope people keep a cool head and realise this was kinda nothing more than a styles makes fight scenario.



Fitz, Fitz, Fitz...

My Man... Cotto is the superior boxer, yes. Antonio Margarito is the superior fighter... There is a difference. Muhammed Ali could box all day. Steven Seagal would kill Ali in a fight... In the square circle that still applies to an extent. Cotto boxed and Margarito fought... The better fighter won tonight. Mayweather wouldnt beat Tony either, otherwise the fight would have been made...
kidbazooka1
In my opinion Margarito lost the Williams figth because he started too slow if they fight agian I see Marga starting faster and putting a beating on Williams in later rds.
BoxingStill#1
so basicallly your putting Tony on the top 5 pound for pound? not u fitz...
BigG
Well Tony beat a P4P top 5 but what about Paul Williams? I guess HE should be rated too
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Jul 27 2008, 03:05 AM) [snapback]397365[/snapback]
Well Tony beat a P4P top 5 but what about Paul Williams? I guess HE should be rated too




whatever,....talk to me when I'v soaked this loss into my brain.....I now know the definition of UPSET
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 27 2008, 03:02 AM) [snapback]397361[/snapback]
I see exactly what you are saying. But I'm using the same logic people use. Nobody says Forrest is better then Mosley or how Mayorga is better then Forrest or Barkley better then Hearns.
I'm just saying that this is a styles makes fight type of scenario. Just like I think Cotto would make a competitive fight with Mayweather while Mayweather would make Margarito look foolish. That's all I'm getting at. That is how I saw the fight, nothing more then a bad match up for Cotto and I said this along with many others before the fight.
I give a lot of respect and credit to Margarito and after tonight, I actually became a bigger fan of him because I knew he was tough but man I had no idea he was this tough. Not trying to take anything away from Margarito. Just calling it as I see it.



I was kinda referencing our debate from about 2months ago, when U stated Cotto was the better fighter...

I think he's the better boxer, but not the better fighter. The better fighter won 2nite...

You still my man...

BoxingStill#1
what a sad night ........im off....
BigG
I think Cotto would give Mayweather a tougher fight than Margarito would only because Cotto is quicker and more complete.

But Marg is a bad style for Cotto...too big and Cotto's not strong enough to box him for full 12 rounds. Marg looks like a MW fighting at WW
BGv2.0
My response to anybody that claims that Floyd is somehow the "BEST".....would be....the "best".....fights the best. And this man supposedly retired with a whole line of people he never fought...inlcuding BOTH men who waged war tonight!

At the very least Cotto had the balls to step in the ring with this guy....and may do it again.

The undisputed FACT...is that the same cannot be said of PBF!
Snowsy
I think that Cotto WOULD HAVE given Floyd a tougher fight. We'll have to see what comes of this for Miguel. The signs started showing at the end of the Mosely fight. I wrote it off as a one-fight thing, but now after he basically retreated from Margarito from the 7th round on I've got some questions as to whether Cotto has a bit of a foot-out-the-door approach. Fame, money, and security are why lots of people get into this sport. Once you have it like Cotto does how much is there left to do? That wasn't the heart we saw against Torres. Cotto's body language now says "get me outta here" when the going gets really rough.

I'm still willing to say it was just a matter of Mosely and Margarito, matchups, blah blah, but I think I speak for most of us when I say that I'll be watching his reactions in his next (likely very soft) bouts carefully for signs of resignation.
BigG
I have to admit that the WW division is ALOT more interesting with Mayweather around. But Floyd recently said that he lost the hunger, drive and passion for the sport....so I'm thinking with Cotto losing that aura of invicibility he had, Floyd will most likely not comeback...because theres no mega money fight for him.

Cotto is such a great fighter to watch and hopefully fights on. One of the few guys I really get excited for when fights.

But man I kenw this was a bad fight for Cotto..if you watched Cotto's fight with Lovemore NDou you'll see that it was similar to the Margarito fight..NDou could take Cotto's bombs and forced Cotto to retreat for most of the last 4-5 rounds. Margarito though is much bigger and stronger than NDou and Cotto, despite being technically superiro (IMHO) couldnt keep him off.....

So does Margarito beating Cotto mean Paul Williams is the best @ 147 seeing as how he clearly decisioned Margarito last year?
buford54
Byrdman, you're definitely right about that argument coming from Floyd.
It's the same thing that Roy did for all those years, "I don't have to fight him because he's not in my league."
I would bet within 2 days the interview is out that neither of these guys is in my league, and Cotto just lost to guy who just lost to Paul Williams...who just lost as well.
I'm bummed because I knew this would happen if Tony beat Cotto. Floyd will either stay retired or come back and fight DLH in Oscars last fight for 20 million and will never take on a challenge again, because either "they don't deserve it," or they don't get him paid enough.
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 02:41 AM) [snapback]397389[/snapback]
what a sad night ........im off....



What a great night. This was a great fight. Bottom line people, the better man won tonight. Plain and simple. Lot of excuses and scenarios flying around right now, but the simple fact is Margarito was the better fighter tonight. Cotto looked awesome but just couldnt stand up to the pressure and power. Whos to say Cotto wouldnt be the better fighter in the rematch. If Cotto only had a bit more stamina he probably would have won this fight it was that close.
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 27 2008, 08:09 AM) [snapback]397426[/snapback]
I understand the point your trying to make, but I think you are being a bit harsh on Cotto. Yep fair enough, Cotto isn't the fittest, but I don't think it's a question of his determination. Mosley is a well conditioned fighter himself and even had a prime DLH slowing down late in the fight, it shouldn't be a surprise they Cotto slowed down either. Margarito is a big welter who throws more than 100 punches a round. I think most guys will look slow towards the end of the fight with these guys. I can't question Cotto's determination.
Also I disagree about you questioning his heart. It wasn't as if Cotto folded at first signs of trouble. He was hanging on and in a fight from round 7, and I think it may have been round 7 where Cotto was basically like jelly for the entire rounds and hanging in there. Cotto was hanging in there for quite a bit. Since round 7.
Cotto has stepped up in competition dramatically, and I don't think his dedication can be questioned. He has been fighting the best. He got beat by a bigger and stronger guy but put up a good effort.
But I too want to see how he goes from here, it's situations that Cotto is in now that usually tells us the most about a fighters character.



I couldnt have said it any better Fitz. Cotto showed a ton of heart tonight. He hung in there as long as he could. Just like you said even in the 7th round when it looked like it was almost over, Cotto came back to win a couple of rounds after that. And yes it will be interesting to see how he reacts to this.
Byrd Man
And also, as I said in my blog: (http://searchingforchetbaker.blogspot.com) at the time of Floyd's retirement he had not fought 5 of the top 6 fighters in his own division, instead going after money with easy fights against DLH who had to drop in weight, and Hatton who had to come up in weight (or down, depending on how you see it. lol).

How is that even remotely acting like a champ? The only one in the top 6 that he fought was Zab Judah, and out of the top ten....he mighta fought Luis Collazo? I'm not sure on that one, but yeah....

someone look that up because I'm still groggy from sleeping. How many of the top 10 Welterweights did Floyd fight?
BigG
Well actually it was Floyd who moved up in weight to beat DLH for the 154 pound title...and ALOT of people were picking DLH to beat Floyd in the board because of how good he looked against Mayorga.

Floyd only fought Sharmba Mitchell, Baldomir, Hatton, and Judah at 147. Judah & Baldo were legit top 6 guys...

And remember...Floyd started his career at 130..
Snowsy
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 27 2008, 09:09 AM) [snapback]397426[/snapback]
I understand the point your trying to make, but I think you are being a bit harsh on Cotto. Yep fair enough, Cotto isn't the fittest, but I don't think it's a question of his determination. Mosley is a well conditioned fighter himself and even had a prime DLH slowing down late in the fight, it shouldn't be a surprise they Cotto slowed down either. Margarito is a big welter who throws more than 100 punches a round. I think most guys will look slow towards the end of the fight with these guys. I can't question Cotto's determination.
Also I disagree about you questioning his heart. It wasn't as if Cotto folded at first signs of trouble. He was hanging on and in a fight from round 7, and I think it may have been round 7 where Cotto was basically like jelly for the entire rounds and hanging in there. Cotto was hanging in there for quite a bit. Since round 7.
Cotto has stepped up in competition dramatically, and I don't think his dedication can be questioned. He has been fighting the best. He got beat by a bigger and stronger guy but put up a good effort.
But I too want to see how he goes from here, it's situations that Cotto is in now that usually tells us the most about a fighters character.


I'm not trying to be harsh. I still think he's elite, and I still want to see him fight. I'm just going to watch his next fight with sort of a different set of eyes, and an entirely different set of criteria. This whole story just feels very familiar. When you are a world-beater, and lose - especially in a physically/emotionally gruelling way - it can derail you completely. The whole "Cotto is the next Trinidad" takes on a whole new meaning after a loss like that.

I like the kid, I'm cheering for him, but history is a bitch and we see this story all of the time. Ask Left Hook Lacy. It can rip your love for the game right out of your chest.
Mino
QUOTE(Snowsy @ Jul 27 2008, 03:05 PM) [snapback]397519[/snapback]
I'm not trying to be harsh. I still think he's elite, and I still want to see him fight. I'm just going to watch his next fight with sort of a different set of eyes, and an entirely different set of criteria. This whole story just feels very familiar. When you are a world-beater, and lose - especially in a physically/emotionally gruelling way - it can derail you completely. The whole "Cotto is the next Trinidad" takes on a whole new meaning after a loss like that.

I like the kid, I'm cheering for him, but history is a bitch and we see this story all of the time. Ask Left Hook Lacy. It can rip your love for the game right out of your chest.

True but you cant compare Cotto to Lacy...Lacy took 1 of the worst 1 sided beatings I have ever seen, and Cotto was in this fight all the way even winning on the cards in my decision,,Tough loss most def but he will be back..He was just in against a guy he couldnt hurt and I dont think there are any other welters that would eat the punches that tony was eating
dbdbdb
Very Good Points stated previously.

What I took from the Cotto v. Margarito fight is this: AM can take unbelieveable punishment all day & night while still maintaining his pressure game.

When you have a FIGHTER like that, he will be a problem for anyone who cannot match him punch for punch. As stated by Fitz, styles makes fights and AM's style wears you down to the point where you have no choice but to run constantly or stand your ground. Cotto tried a mixture of the two and while he boxed, had no problem handling AM. The problems started and continued when Cotto tried to stand his ground. Cotto couldn't maintain the movement he demonstrated in the first five rounds and when that happened, the end was in sight. Also, Cotto should have known that AM kills most of his opponents when they start laying on the ropes.

When you can't hurt your opponent, but he can hurt you badly, there's nothing left but to outbox him by sticking and moving. Cotto had the right formula to beat AM, he just could not maintain it for twelve rounds.

Honestly AM, beats Mosley, Judah, Berto, Cotto, DLH, Cintron, Quintana etc... ***

Mosley, doesn't have the movement necessary to keep AM off-balance and will have no choice but to stand his ground. AM will walk Mosley down while punishing him. {Margarito by KO}

Judah, doesn't have the mentality to overcome a strong pressure fighter. Pure ass-whipping here. {Margarito by KO}

Berto, is still too green to handle what AM brings to the table. {Margarito by KO}

Cotto, has what it takes to defeat AM and he demonstrated it last night for a couple rounds. But he just wasn't able to maintain his movement. {Margarito by KO}

DLH, has the technique to outbox AM for six rounds max, after that the ass-whipping will commence. {Margarito by UD\SD}

Floyd, would have a chance of taking AM the distance {He cannot KO, AM} mainly because he has the ability to box for twelve rounds and can maintain the movement needed to keep AM off-balance. He also has better than average defence. It would be a run & gun type of boring fight, but PBF will be able to get the decision. {PBF by UD}

Williams, can beat AM again by doing what he did the first time they fought. Boxing for twelve rounds while keeping his feet moving and staying off the ropes. {Williams by UD}

*****************************
About PBF's avoidance of AM.

Cons: 8 MILLION UP!!!!! {OUTCOME UNPREDICTABLE}
PBF knows a fight with AM is a "HUGE ????????" and is only worth 8 million at best {PROBLEM!!!!}

Pros: 70 MILLION UP!!!!! {OUTCOME PREDICTABLE}
PBF knew he could outbox DLH for fifty rounds if necessary and it would be worth 40 million {NOT A PROBLEM!!!}
PBF knew another huge payday would be available with Hatton who he knew he could beat time after time whild making at least 30 million {NOT A PROBLEM!!!}
******************************

Floyd did the right thing for his career & financially ......... and with 70+ MILLION in the bank, who gives a fuck what people say .......
...................... RIGHT

Byrd Man
I understand Floyd's FINANCIAL reasoning behind taking the DLH and Hatton fights instead of fighting the best fighters in his division.

But he has no leg to stand on when he tries to talk that shit about him being the best ever.

The Best Ever doesn't duck real competition for bullshit matchups that are all about money.
Byrd Man
I understand Floyd's FINANCIAL reasoning behind taking the DLH and Hatton fights instead of fighting the best fighters in his division.

But he has no leg to stand on when he tries to talk that shit about him being the best ever.

The Best Ever doesn't duck real competition for bullshit matchups that are all about money.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Jul 27 2008, 04:49 PM) [snapback]397547[/snapback]
I understand Floyd's FINANCIAL reasoning behind taking the DLH and Hatton fights instead of fighting the best fighters in his division.

But he has no leg to stand on when he tries to talk that shit about him being the best ever.

The Best Ever doesn't duck real competition for bullshit matchups that are all about money.


Totally agree with you there.

One of the best WW = Yes
The greatest WW = Absolutely NOT
JonnyBlaze
I don't know why you all are soo upset about Margarito beating Cotto,I picked Margarito to win the fight even though Cotto has more skills..Cotto couldn't handle getting that much pressure after 6 rounds..He was boxing Margarito perfectly in the beginning of the fight but he wasn't mentally strong enough to keep doing it..Boxing is more mental then it is physical and Margarito is one of the toughest guys out there mentally..Cotto's defense and great combos impressed me the most about him though, but to say that Cotto would beat Mayweather is just ridiculous..What would Cotto do to beat Mayweather?Mayweather's skills is what makes him the best..I am not pro Mayweather but there is no denying his skills..Dbdbdb knows what hes talking about..
Byrd Man
But the argument of "Cotto lost, so what would he have done to Mayweather" is bullshit at best.

The fact that you think Mayweather would have beaten Cotto isn't the point. At issue is not whether or not Cotto or Margarito or Clottey or Mosely or Williams would have beaten Mayweather. For all we know Floyd would have dominated and knocked out every single one of them.

The point is that he REFUSED TO FIGHT THEM. He can say all he wants that they're not on his level, that they are punks that they can't fight, that they can't draw, that they can't whatever.

But the bottom line is this: he refused to fight them. No matter whether they would have won or not, it doesn't matter. He refused to fight them, so we are stuck to draw our own conclusions, such as Floyd was afraid to fight them because it wasn't a sure fire win like Hatton or DLH was.

So this bullshit about "Cotto wouldn't have beaten PBF" is stupid and people need to shut the hell up with that shit. At issue is not whether they would have won, it's the fact that Floyd refused to fight someone that he was not almost assured of a win against.

Just like RJJ for the vast majority of his career.
salvador
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Jul 27 2008, 02:44 AM) [snapback]397346[/snapback]
Fitz, Fitz, Fitz...

Muhammed Ali could box all day. Steven Seagal would kill Ali in a fight...


Am I reading this correctly? Cause that's a pretty interesting choice of reference points. rolleyes.gif





Byrd Man
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 27 2008, 05:25 PM) [snapback]397551[/snapback]
Am I reading this correctly? Cause that's a pretty interesting choice of reference points. rolleyes.gif


Can we get the people behind the Marciano/Ali simulation and the Rocky Balboa/Mason Dixon simulations on the phone and get this shit poppin? lol
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Jul 27 2008, 05:08 PM) [snapback]397550[/snapback]
[b]But the argument of "Cotto lost, so what would he have done to Mayweather" is bullshit at best[/b].

The fact that you think Mayweather would have beaten Cotto isn't the point. At issue is not whether or not Cotto or Margarito or Clottey or Mosely or Williams would have beaten Mayweather. For all we know Floyd would have dominated and knocked out every single one of them.

The point is that he REFUSED TO FIGHT THEM. He can say all he wants that they're not on his level, that they are punks that they can't fight, that they can't draw, that they can't whatever.

But the bottom line is this: he refused to fight them. No matter whether they would have won or not, it doesn't matter. He refused to fight them, so we are stuck to draw our own conclusions, such as Floyd was afraid to fight them because it wasn't a sure fire win like Hatton or DLH was.

So this bullshit about "Cotto wouldn't have beaten PBF" is stupid and people need to shut the hell up with that shit. At issue is not whether they would have won, it's the fact that Floyd refused to fight someone that he was not almost assured of a win against.

Just like RJJ for the vast majority of his career.


That's all it is BS. A lot of fans have given Mayweather and other fighters a pass for fighting the toughest guy in the division and then saying that he has nothing left to prove. Like after Mayweather beat Hatton, who was not even a welter, he said "I got nothing left to prove" Bullshit, you say you are the best, you keep fighting the best. Then fans say "Oh but there's always new guys coming in, the fans will never be satisfied" Well first off all, PBF has continually indicated he doesn't give a shit about us fans. Second of all fighting newcomers is what ATG fighters do, they don't sit back and say "I got nothing left to prove" because we all know PBF still has a lot he can do.

Remember after Jones Jr beat Ruiz so easily? No one expected him to get beat anytime soon, much less get beat by Tarver, but that's exactly what happened. No one is unbeatable.
FenderDG3
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Jul 27 2008, 12:30 AM) [snapback]397289[/snapback]
Okay so I was sick earlier today and went to bed. I woke up about 12:30 east coast time and got online and found out that Margarito had won the fight. As soon as I realized this I was really pissed off.

not because I care about Cotto or Margarito, because I don't.

Because I knew what was coming. I knew the argument someone was going to make which is one of the all time most ridiculous arguments anyone can make in Boxing.

So let me set this up for you.

I got to a hip hop forum I'm on, and the subject of one of the posts (without remembering the exact title) essentially was "Margarito beats down Cotto"

So as soon as I saw that my heart dropped a bit and I knew what was coming.

I open the thread and SURE ENOUGH!

I'm quoting directly here:
Now, how retarded is that?

By that logic, Once Lennox dropped his fight to Oliver McCall the argument shoulda been "HA, and people thought he'd beat Tyson, come on now."

How stupid can people be?

And I fucking KNEW that argument was coming. In my opinion Mayweather has ducked Cotto for so long just PRAYING that he would get beat so he could say "see, told you he wasn't worth fighting"

Fucking shameful. I wanna beat someone to death when they trot out that argument. Seriously.


I wouldn't worry too much what somebody on a hip-hop forum thinks about a boxing subject that only hardcore boxing fans know and/or care about (cuz I guarantee you the general public does not). Conversely I feel the same way (not that it has happened) if the roles were reversed and a boxing forum was discussing who would win a rap battle between a retired hip-hop artist and one that is still making records.
Byrd Man
Just because it's a hip hop forum doesn't mean there aren't people on there that follow and know their shit on Boxing. That guy who posted that though is a world class douchebag.

FenderDG3
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Jul 27 2008, 05:37 PM) [snapback]397569[/snapback]
Just because it's a hip hop forum doesn't mean there aren't people on there that follow and know their shit on Boxing. That guy who posted that though is a world class douchebag.


Oh I know it doesn't mean that they don't know their shit. I'm just saying in general I would expect to hear something like that on a forum unrelated to boxing. Now if I had heard that on this forum then I would shocked.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jul 27 2008, 05:52 PM) [snapback]397558[/snapback]
Remember after Jones Jr beat Ruiz so easily? No one expected him to get beat anytime soon, much less get beat by Tarver, but that's exactly what happened. No one is unbeatable.


Exactly on point, Mean Mister Mustard.

Some fighter's don't want to risk losing that AURA of invincibility so high risk fights remain an afterthought. That's one of the many things I like about Mexican & Puerto Rican fighters. That nonsense don't even come into play. Their main focus is to satisfy the fans by giving them their monies worth. Put any fighter in front of them and its on. That's the spirit that made boxing a great sport {Get in the ring and let's see who's the best}.

So, with the situation with PBF, Byrdman is correct, all we can do is speculate. Because floyd's wires got twisted along the way and foremost in his mind is MONEY, and maintaining his unbeaten record. NOT giving the fans the fights they want to see, but taking the fights that will bring the most fortune while not risking a loss. And there aren't too many opportunities out there that offer those two variables at the same time ........ so there is nothing out there for him.

So whats going to happen now ??????

Here's what I want to happen, Both Margarito & Williams clean out the division and split all the belts between them, but don't fight each other.

Now you'll have Two of the guys nobody wants to fight with all the belts {Margarito & Williams}. Who's going to step up to the plate and call out one of these two guys to get their shot.

Then we'll see who in the welterweight division has heart.
Douchebag
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 03:07 AM) [snapback]397368[/snapback]
whatever,....talk to me when I'v soaked this loss into my brain.....I now know the definition of UPSET



I'm with you man. I have the shit recorded and still haven't rewatched it to analyze the fight. I really hope Cotto didn't take to much damage in the fight and can come back the same.
BigG
I watched it a second time and round 11's hard to watch for me....Cotto taking knees because he had nothing left. As bad as watching Morales get TKOed against Pac in their rematch. Cotto boxed incredibly well the first 6 rounds. Cotto-Marg was boxing at its absolute finest....
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Jul 27 2008, 06:22 PM) [snapback]397584[/snapback]
I'm with you man. I have the shit recorded and still haven't rewatched it to analyze the fight. I really hope Cotto didn't take to much damage in the fight and can come back the same.



Lets hope he can come back the same. I dont know though. He did take one helluva beating. He was bleeding from his mouth, nose, and eye. He looked like a beat down fighter to me. Lets hope he can put it past him.
U.S. Champ
QUOTE(Boxingjunkie @ Jul 27 2008, 09:11 PM) [snapback]397595[/snapback]
Lets hope he can come back the same. I dont know though. He did take one helluva beating. He was bleeding from his mouth, nose, and eye. He looked like a beat down fighter to me. Lets hope he can put it past him.

Me two, but as far as the WW division I would like to see Marg vs Paul 2, I believe Paul's newfound power would help him win more convincingly. If not then I think both should move out the class they're oversized and to much for most of the division, and as for Floyd Jr I can't call a winner if he fought Antonio though I would be rooting for him but anyone who thinks it would look like the Baldomir fight is borderline stupid.
thehype
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Jul 27 2008, 04:18 PM) [snapback]397544[/snapback]
Very Good Points stated previously.

What I took from the Cotto v. Margarito fight is this: AM can take unbelieveable punishment all day & night while still maintaining his pressure game.

When you have a FIGHTER like that, he will be a problem for anyone who cannot match him punch for punch. As stated by Fitz, styles makes fights and AM's style wears you down to the point where you have no choice but to run constantly or stand your ground. Cotto tried a mixture of the two and while he boxed, had no problem handling AM. The problems started and continued when Cotto tried to stand his ground. Cotto couldn't maintain the movement he demonstrated in the first five rounds and when that happened, the end was in sight. Also, Cotto should have known that AM kills most of his opponents when they start laying on the ropes.

When you can't hurt your opponent, but he can hurt you badly, there's nothing left but to outbox him by sticking and moving. Cotto had the right formula to beat AM, he just could not maintain it for twelve rounds.

Honestly AM, beats Mosley, Judah, Berto, Cotto, DLH, Cintron, Quintana etc... ***

Mosley, doesn't have the movement necessary to keep AM off-balance and will have no choice but to stand his ground. AM will walk Mosley down while punishing him. {Margarito by KO}

Judah, doesn't have the mentality to overcome a strong pressure fighter. Pure ass-whipping here. {Margarito by KO}

Berto, is still too green to handle what AM brings to the table. {Margarito by KO}

Cotto, has what it takes to defeat AM and he demonstrated it last night for a couple rounds. But he just wasn't able to maintain his movement. {Margarito by KO}

DLH, has the technique to outbox AM for six rounds max, after that the ass-whipping will commence. {Margarito by UD\SD}

Floyd, would have a chance of taking AM the distance {He cannot KO, AM} mainly because he has the ability to box for twelve rounds and can maintain the movement needed to keep AM off-balance. He also has better than average defence. It would be a run & gun type of boring fight, but PBF will be able to get the decision. {PBF by UD}

Williams, can beat AM again by doing what he did the first time they fought. Boxing for twelve rounds while keeping his feet moving and staying off the ropes. {Williams by UD}

*****************************
About PBF's avoidance of AM.

Cons: 8 MILLION UP!!!!! {OUTCOME UNPREDICTABLE}
PBF knows a fight with AM is a "HUGE ????????" and is only worth 8 million at best {PROBLEM!!!!}

Pros: 70 MILLION UP!!!!! {OUTCOME PREDICTABLE}
PBF knew he could outbox DLH for fifty rounds if necessary and it would be worth 40 million {NOT A PROBLEM!!!}
PBF knew another huge payday would be available with Hatton who he knew he could beat time after time whild making at least 30 million {NOT A PROBLEM!!!}
******************************

Floyd did the right thing for his career & financially ......... and with 70+ MILLION in the bank, who gives a fuck what people say .......
...................... RIGHT


Excellent post dbdbdb.

thumbsup_anim.gif

Agree 100%

You get The Hype Seal of Approval!
torvix2000
Mayweather has the stamina to run around the ring for 12 rounds. He'll have his bike against AM and win via a comfortable lead.
WolfishPromistah
"if you watched Cotto's fight with Lovemore NDou you'll see that it was similar to the Margarito fight..NDou could take Cotto's bombs and forced Cotto to retreat for most of the last 4-5 rounds."

THANK YOU! That's what I have said on some occasions; I feel I, too've, seen it since then. Though he's a lil better now, Cotto's reactions under the pressure of one who can handle his punch (yes, Mosely made him do it too) showed me what I personally feel is a problem Cotto has with guys he cannot BULLY his way out against; this is mainly 'cause his stamina is, in my words, 'just a step over "WEAK." That's how I been callin' it like I've seen it for some time. Greatly added, in my opinion, is that Cotto has a clumsy step on his defense, when he's "out boxing" another (meaning he's not really fluid in his foot motion). Sure, he's good with his hands, but Cotto CANNOT what is called dance. LoL! He can't. Anyone who can take his shot and last a bit, with any inclination to walk him down instead of the contrary, will give him hell of a seeming competitive fight, even a B-fighter (yes -- I said it). Mayweather would neutralize his body-shots, and Floyd outmoves Cotto. Sure, Cotto would make it competitive for a bit because he would too be there showing good skill that he does have, no doubt, but Floyd would dominate him where Mosely fell short (Floyd is a bit faster AND sharper with his combination of both offense AND defense, which doesn't mean JUST punching power). With fast assortments of shots throughout, similar to the way he buckled Delahoya more than once, his great stamina, AND GREAT skill with speed, would overtake Cotto in a twelve rounder, though Margarito would make it to the final bell.

With Margarito, Floyd would simply do a Baldomir, which fans would hate. But bottom line, he'd win. That fight would simply be about outpointing a guy. There's my take.
buford54
Floyd would win, and AM would look like a slow, awkward, one dimensional lumberjack.
See Jones/Ruiz.
The small guy with blazing foot/hand speed can get in and out on the big slow guy and can win that fight.
It really doesn't matter that AM has a huge power advantage and a hell of a chin, Floyd wouldn't get tired like Cotto did. He'd keep AM in the center of the ring, sucker him towards the corner, slip out and keep him running in circles for 12 rounds.

The difference w/ Floyd and Cotto would be that AM got to Cotto from time to time and wore him down. Floyd would wear AM down. AM would be throwing and missing all night long, finding nothing but air, getting frustrated, getting popped to the body and head every time he threw a punch...maybe he wouldn't get physically worn down, but mentally he would.
Rather than knowing he would get to Cotto later in the fight, he would start to wonder if he would ever find Floyd. Just like Paul Williams took away his punch output by outpunching him, Floyd would take it away by making him miss and second guess himself.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jul 28 2008, 01:12 AM) [snapback]397620[/snapback]
Why? Cotto showed when he was fresh that he could counter the shit out of Antonio and was making him miss. Why is it so unbelievable that a guy who has better defense and a better boxer will do it for 12 rounds?
Once again, power and size means jack shit if you can't land. DLH who isn't as fit but punches better and a better complete fighter struggled to land. Most struggle to land and I predict Margarito will struggle as well. Mayweather will pot shot himself to a boring one sided decision.



Actually... I beg to differ. DLH went for long periods not swinging. He was very effective in the 1st half of the fight when he would swing. People act as though Mayweather would not be hit. He would be hit by Margarito. Its just that it wouldnt register until the 2nd half of the fight when he wont be able to get away. Bodyshots often go under the register, but they do count. That is why so many saw Cotto winning 5 of the 1st 6 rounds. He'd snap Tony's head back and everyone would say whoa... oooo... ahhh... What they failed to notice was the bodyshots that Cotto took in those exchanges. They didnt start to show up until late. Joe Frazier is a genius...

Floyd moves his head, but it wont be his head that takes punishment initially. He has a propensity to hang on the ropes too. Did it with Baldy, did it with DLH, did it with Hatton. He will get his body broke in a fight with Tony Margarito. Mayweather would hit Tony, but he'd have to put himself in harms way to do it. Ultimately getting timed and hit to the body to slow him down.

Tha Docta
AM had a hell of a time hitting cotto and i just dont see how he lays a glove on floyd. i see a UD win for floyd against AM. another guy i think would give AM a hell of a fight is mosley. even at this point in his career i think mosley has what it takes to beat margarito. it would be one hell of a fight though.
WolfishPromistah
"DLH went for long periods not swinging."

And why? It's 'cause he was paying for it; then began "second guessing" himself. And it's back to what Buford said (wink). Floyd's better with his overall game than Cotto; that's just the reality, with the exception of power. But LOOK HOW FAR Cotto made it with Margarito doing what he does WITH HIS SKILL. Thinking of Floyd, it's a clean sweep, though I love the dedicated work ethic, the heart and skill displayed by my fellow Piscean brother, Tony Margarito -- Floyd too, by the way. But again, Floyd would beat him in a boring decision with greater skill level, speed and -- most of all -- STAMINA that someone like Cotto lacks. Think: Delahoya would give Tony Hell, most likely, if it were not that he cannot, for anything, maintain his stamina until the end of a match. History has constantly shown that, so it's a wrap to me. Mayweather, on the other hand, excels. He's like a little bug picking with you that you try to swat unsuccessfully.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Jul 27 2008, 01:11 AM) [snapback]397321[/snapback]
You dont think Margarito could beat Paul Williams? I believe last summer they fought a closely contested battle that was decided by a point or so. That fight could of went either way, and if Margarito starts quick like he did tonight and the Cintron fight, he will beat Williams. I think he can also beat contenders like Collazo, Clottey, Judah, and Quintana. Margarito is a tough fighter and can beat a lot of fighters out there.

Cotto's mistake in the Margarito fight is that he did something other than what he normally does. Cotto isn't known to outbox guys - so what made his brain trust believe that they were going to turn him into Floyd Mayweather?

Big mistake, IMO.

Cotto is a pressure fighter. He should have gone out there, put the pressure on Margarito, and worked his body attack. The Floyd Mayweather impersonation isn't working for him....
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