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Full Version: Rahman vs Toney Decision Changed to N/D
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Tha Docta

Knew this was coming. doctor was an idiot for making the call anyway. even if many people thought rahman bitched out and quit, this is the correct call.
MarzB
I agree completely. As for Rock quitting or being called a quitter, consider the source is a bunch of "keyboard warriors".


So heres the $20K question now. Who's David Haye gonna fight??

He recently mentioned that Rock's name is a candidate if the fight is changed to a no decision. Well thats happened. But James has chimed in (of course) and put his name in there.

David has talked a lot of shit as you all know but he was very silent regarding Toney. For all the shit(it'll be a top heavyweight he'll fight, no bums) he talked its now time to put up.

If he chooses Rahman, to me he's choosing the easier fight . If he choose Toney, to me he's showing he's really ready. Not that he has to worry about James power but he knows that still James boxing skill is definitely a cut above his and he wants to LOOK GOOD against whom he fights. So don't expect it to be Toney is what I'm saying.

Byrd Man
QUOTE
The California State Athletic Commission on Monday overturned the result of the July 16 James Toney-Hasim Rahman heavyweight fight, changing it from a third-round TKO win for Toney to a no-decision.

During the third round, Toney and Rahman smacked heads and the accidental butt left Rahman with a cut above his left eyebrow. In the corner after the round, Rahman indicated that he was having a problem seeing and the ringside physician, Dr. Paul Wallace, asked for referee Ray Corona to stop the fight.

Because the bout did not go at least four complete rounds, the rules say it should be declared a no-decision, which is what Corona indicated it would be to Fox Sports Net broadcasters.

However, minutes later when the result was announced, the fight was declared a TKO win for Toney. Had it gone at least four rounds, it would have gone to the scorecards.

Rahman appealed to the commission, which rendered its ruling.

"I have reviewed your appeal and have determined that the wrong decision was rendered on the night of the event. Therefore, the bout will be ruled a no-decision," Armando Garcia, the executive director of the California commission, wrote Rahman in a letter.

"I am gratified. It is the right thing to do and I appreciate Mr. Garcia's efforts," Rahman said.

Bob Arum, whose Top Rank promotes two-time heavyweight titleholder Rahman, added, "I want to commend the California commission and particularly its executive director, Armando Garcia, for handling this situation so expeditiously and for having the courage to reverse a decision made the night of the fight."

The result will also be changed with Fight Fax, boxing's official record keeper, meaning Toney's record is now 70-6-3 with 43 knockouts; Rahman's is 45-6-2 with 36 knockouts.

Although there was some talk of a third fight between Rahman and Toney -- their first bout, a title defense by Rahman, was ruled a draw -- it doesn't appear as though it is in the cards.

"We're looking for the biggest fight possible for Rock at this point in time," manager Steve Nelson said. "Names like David Haye and Cris Arreola are two names that have been mentioned to us. We're going to look to put together the biggest challenge for Rock as soon as possible."

The Toney camp was not happy with the reversal, but promoter Dan Goossen said he and Toney, a three-division champion, accept it.

"I said immediately after the fight that it was not the way James wanted to win," he said. "I'm not going to accuse Rahman of quitting on his stool, but we've seen fighters continue with much worse [of a cut]. The key for us taking the fight was always to show that James was still going to be a force in the business. Although he didn't get the result he wanted, we felt that he still showed what he could do. He was at his best weight in five years and he looked like he was on his way to putting in a dominant performance.

"I'm not going to fight the commission. There's enough controversy in boxing and I don't want to add any more to it. I trust the California commission and we'll abide by their ruling."
BrutalBodyShots
Tough break for Toney... seemed like he took the fight pretty serious and gave a good account of himself. He really needed that "win" to set himself up for something at his advanced age and now it's like another step backwards.

Big Slim Sweet
It's the right call, but it shouldn't really matter. If you watched the fight you came away feeling like Toney was the winner, regardless of the official decision.

Brutal, where you been lately? Haven't seen your name around here for a while.
BGv2.0
This decesion was the right one.....I was so pissed about it....I was contemplating giving up the sport I loved. I had a hard enough time with the Arreola/Chazz call.....but then to have such a blatent BS call as this one.....actually made me sick to my stomach.

I know it was a nothing fight, with two guys well past their prime.

I know there is a question as to Rock's heart and desire to continue.

I know all of that. BUT......I also know what the rules of the fight game say....and for me....it was totally clear with no question as to what the proper call was.

And so I've been waiting to hear this for awhile now.

This was not about which guy had balls or who was afraid.....it was about a right call based on what took place before thousands of people.

I'm glad this restored my faith a little bit in the system.
D-MARV
Not surprised by this one!
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
It was the right decision but doesn't change my view that Rahman is finished as a top rated contender.

If they fought I think Toney could actually KO Haye. After all if Haye can be KOd and on the floor at cruiserweight I don't see why James couldn't get the job done at heavy.
BigG
Make Toney-Haye....
D-MARV
I think TOney-Haye defeats the purpose for Haye! Im sure it would be a good fight but Toney is not a True Heavyweight! and not big and not a big hitter. Haye needs to fight a "True" heavyweight with size and strength. Someone like Jameel McCline or Andrew Golata.
buford54
This is the correct call, technically.
Even though we are keyboard warriors, when you see Vitali Klitschko begging to continue fighting Lennox Lewis with his eye practically hanging out of its' socket, and then you see Rock begging to have the fight stopped due to a much smaller cut...it absolutely affects your opinion of the fighter.

I would like to see Haye fight Toney. Who cares about Rock at this point? Honestly, his only win of any substance since 2003 was Monte Barrett. And that was one of the worst fights in history.
Otherwise, it's been entirely bums and former Cruiserweights.
While Toney has struggled with weight and roids, he arguably beat Sam Peter (current champ), definitely beat John Ruiz (champ at the time, NC for roids), and drew with Rahman (champ at the time).

For Haye, Rock is the better choice by far. He's limited in skill and he can definitely get knocked out.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jul 29 2008, 01:06 PM) [snapback]397889[/snapback]
This is the correct call, technically.
Even though we are keyboard warriors, when you see Vitali Klitschko begging to continue fighting Lennox Lewis with his eye practically hanging out of its' socket, and then you see Rock begging to have the fight stopped due to a much smaller cut...it absolutely affects your opinion of the fighter.

I would like to see Haye fight Toney. Who cares about Rock at this point? Honestly, his only win of any substance since 2003 was Monte Barrett. And that was one of the worst fights in history.
Otherwise, it's been entirely bums and former Cruiserweights.
While Toney has struggled with weight and roids, he arguably beat Sam Peter (current champ), definitely beat John Ruiz (champ at the time, NC for roids), and drew with Rahman (champ at the time).

For Haye, Rock is the better choice by far. He's limited in skill and he can definitely get knocked out.



im in the minority in that i didnt have any problem with rock not wanting to continue. what i know is, rock was fighting well, then he gets headbutted and starts eating right hands. i thought it was obvious that the man was having trouble seeing.

i would have loved for the fight to continue if the headbutt hadnt occured cause i think rock couldve won the fight. he was in pretty good shape, best ive seen in a while out of him.

rock should try to get at sam peter or valuev. i think he could give both guys problems. there are some decent matchups for rock if he can stay in shape.

rock is one big dude, i would love to have him come out to the bars with me and turn his ass loose on someone.
Big Slim Sweet
For BG, this was the best thing to happen to boxing this past weekend. LMAO. You and your heavyweights.

Still doesn't change the perception that Rock is finished and Toney can still put some guys to the test.

I'd love to see Haye fight Toney next. I don't think it defeats the purpose for him at all. If you're a legitimate heavyweight you should be able to walk right through Toney at this stage of his career, as we saw with the Peter rematch. I think it's a solid, reasonably safe first big fight at the weight for Haye, and if he gets his lights put out he knows he can't make it.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Jul 29 2008, 01:22 PM) [snapback]397898[/snapback]
For BG, this was the best thing to happen to boxing this past weekend. LMAO. You and your heavyweights.

Still doesn't change the perception that Rock is finished and Toney can still put some guys to the test.

I'd love to see Haye fight Toney next. I don't think it defeats the purpose for him at all. If you're a legitimate heavyweight you should be able to walk right through Toney at this stage of his career, as we saw with the Peter rematch. I think it's a solid, reasonably safe first big fight at the weight for Haye, and if he gets his lights put out he knows he can't make it.



i say fight mccline. if he cant beat mccline theres no reason to carry on in the heavyweight division. i would pick bernard hopkins to beat toney but that doesnt mean i consider hops a legit heavyweight.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 29 2008, 12:27 PM) [snapback]397902[/snapback]
i say fight mccline. if he cant beat mccline theres no reason to carry on in the heavyweight division. i would pick bernard hopkins to beat toney but that doesnt mean i consider hops a legit heavyweight.

Hops is sort of the exception to most rules, don't you think?

And no one gives a shit about Jameel McCline. Haye fight Toney!
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Jul 29 2008, 01:54 PM) [snapback]397909[/snapback]
Hops is sort of the exception to most rules, don't you think?

And no one gives a shit about Jameel McCline. Haye fight Toney!



i hate mccline just as much as anyone, but i think a victory over him would give us a better gauge on how haye does against real heavyweights.

i think guys like calzaghe, tarver & dawson could beat toney as well. toney got outboxed by sam peter and fought rahman to a draw.

toney is probably the best fight for haye just because of the money, but i dont think it gives anyone a gauge on how haye is going to do at heavyweight. toney is a good fighter, but he does not have a heavyweight punch or the size to go along with it.

BGv2.0
I totally agree...James Toney does NOTHING for Haye as far as testing him against the likes of which he claims to want to go after.

MCCline would though.

You can't fight a guy like James Toney and then think you are prepared for Wlad.....Just ask Austin, Imbragamov and Thompson....and those guys fought much better and bigger HWs than JT.

McCline, would test Haye' ability with a tall HW with a decent chin. AND...who knows...if a motovated McCline shows up...he could test Haye's chin...musch moreso than JT ever could.

AND...after seeing Thompson's spirited effort with Wlad....Haye/Thompson might not be a bad matchup as well....and Haye could gagae a lot from that one as well.

But not JT.....that's a $$$$ only fight.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jul 29 2008, 12:06 PM) [snapback]397889[/snapback]
when you see Vitali Klitschko begging to continue fighting Lennox Lewis with his eye practically hanging out of its' socket, and then you see Rock begging to have the fight stopped due to a much smaller cut...it absolutely affects your opinion of the fighter.



What about when you see Vitali begging to stop with Chris Byrd due to a sholder injury? Did that affect your opinion? dntknw.gif

Personally....I myself have to trust the fighter's themselves. They know to what degree they are effected by and injury and as to if they can continue or not.

And I myself NEVER saw Rock "begging to have the fight stopped". I saw the guy tell the ringside Dr. that his vision was effected by the injury and that he was having trouble seeing...he basically answered the Dr. question.

That's far from begging to stop a fight. If anything it's simply being truthful despite any bravado you may feel.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Jul 29 2008, 05:19 PM) [snapback]397957[/snapback]
And I myself NEVER saw Rock "begging to have the fight stopped". I saw the guy tell the ringside Dr. that his vision was effected by the injury and that he was having trouble seeing...he basically answered the Dr. question.

Rock's body language said it all. Translated it went something like, "Doc, please don't make me go back out there and get my butt whipped by James Toney."
BGv2.0
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Jul 30 2008, 04:07 PM) [snapback]398117[/snapback]
Rock's body language said it all. Translated it went something like, "Doc, please don't make me go back out there and get my butt whipped by James Toney."


First of all....you cannot base a decesion that is supposed to follow set up rules on what "body language" says (which in itself is an opinion and not a fact). Your translation is an opinion.

You cannot render a decesion for a fight...based on anything other than what actually occured.

Had Rock made the statement "Doc, please don't make me go back out there and get my butt whipped by James Toney."....I'd agree with the TKO call.....but that is not what occured.

He was asked by the Dr. if his vision was impaired....he was truthful and said yes....the Dr. then stopped the fight. The Dr. later claimed he did so out of concern for the fighter....that's a Dr.'s call due to an injury caused by a headbutt before the 4th round.

Clear NC dispite what people think Rock did or did not want.
hardhead
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Jul 31 2008, 05:55 AM) [snapback]398215[/snapback]
First of all....you cannot base a decesion that is supposed to follow set up rules on what "body language" says (which in itself is an opinion and not a fact). Your translation is an opinion.

You cannot render a decesion for a fight...based on anything other than what actually occured.

Had Rock made the statement "Doc, please don't make me go back out there and get my butt whipped by James Toney."....I'd agree with the TKO call.....but that is not what occured.

He was asked by the Dr. if his vision was impaired....he was truthful and said yes....the Dr. then stopped the fight. The Dr. later claimed he did so out of concern for the fighter....that's a Dr.'s call due to an injury caused by a headbutt before the 4th round.

Clear NC dispite what people think Rock did or did not want.



I agree, I think there's no question that this should've been ruled a NC. Glad to see the right decision made.

It's unfortunate that the fight ended the way it did because it seemed like at the end of the previous round it was starting to heat up.
D-MARV
I just hope that they move on from each other and never fight again. They should fight some of these young guys to see where they stand!

James TOney Vs Kevin Johnnson anyone? LOL should be a great talking match!
Big Slim Sweet
Hey I've got no problem with the NC. I think it's the correct call. I also think it doesn't change the perception that Toney moves on from the fight the unofficial winner.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jul 31 2008, 07:51 AM) [snapback]398234[/snapback]
I just hope that they move on from each other and never fight again. They should fight some of these young guys to see where they stand!

James TOney Vs Kevin Johnnson anyone? LOL should be a great talking match!



They have already said their plans are to move on. Arum is looking at Rock/Haye or Rock/Arreola.

Goosen said JT will be looking for another opponet as well.


Which is what should happen. There was little to no fan interest in this second matchup....and that was even giving it away on FSN, WNF.....with the dissapointing outcome I don't think a 3rd match would generate any fan interest or any decent $$$ for that matter.

I'd like to see either of those with Rock. AND...I'd like to see Toney/McCline.

JT sham that he is at HW continues to spout off about KOing Klitchko and Valuev and all this stuff....yet he's never really fought a huge Hw that would even remotely compare to how he would fair with Wlad. McCline has the height and reach advantage that Wlad would enjoy...yet not the power....so I think it would be a really good gage for James Toney's claim at being able to dominate anybody.

If he were to really beat the hell out of McCline....I might even come around to believeing his BS....but continued Draws and NCs and losses, with only 1 solid winover an old Holyfield....has never made me a believer.

I's also like to see Toney/Thompson, another low risk fight for JT....yet very telling in regard to the height and reach issues he would encounter with Wlad.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Jul 31 2008, 01:41 PM) [snapback]398277[/snapback]
They have already said their plans are to move on. Arum is looking at Rock/Haye or Rock/Arreola.

Goosen said JT will be looking for another opponet as well.
Which is what should happen. There was little to no fan interest in this second matchup....and that was even giving it away on FSN, WNF.....with the dissapointing outcome I don't think a 3rd match would generate any fan interest or any decent $$$ for that matter.

I'd like to see either of those with Rock. AND...I'd like to see Toney/McCline.

JT sham that he is at HW continues to spout off about KOing Klitchko and Valuev and all this stuff....yet he's never really fought a huge Hw that would even remotely compare to how he would fair with Wlad. McCline has the height and reach advantage that Wlad would enjoy...yet not the power....so I think it would be a really good gage for James Toney's claim at being able to dominate anybody.

If he were to really beat the hell out of McCline....I might even come around to believeing his BS....but continued Draws and NCs and losses, with only 1 solid winover an old Holyfield....has never made me a believer.

I's also like to see Toney/Thompson, another low risk fight for JT....yet very telling in regard to the height and reach issues he would encounter with Wlad.



and he had steroids pouring out of his ears for that fight with holyfield. and i agree about him having to face a big heavyweight. if a guy with just a little size like sam peter can outbox toney then i would say he has absolutely no chance against Wlad or any of those other huge heavys.
rusty_trombone
I don't want to see Toney fight anyone anymore. It's the same shit for years now, he gets into "shape" for a fight once he has fucked around for a few years and knows people will stop paying him to fight. Then after his "amazing comeback" when he is in "great shape", he fats his way into a few more sumo matches. It's just the same cycle over and over again.
Spyder
Rock would be a great opponent for Haye. A big heavyweight, that legitimately held the crown. He can punch, but if not good enough to beat Haye...unless Haye is not cut out to be a heavyweight.

Great gauge fight.
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