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Mino
If there was a way Tito could get dedicated enough to get down to 154 this would be a good matchup for him...Tony would def move up and take the money fight, and style wise this is the matchup best for Tito..A Brawler....He would not pose the problems that Winky and Roy did....A longshot but would love to see it....
kidbazooka1
There's no way Tito can get down to 154lb they would try to get Margarito up to around 170lb which I doubt would ever happen.

Mean Mister Mustard
In their primes I think Trinidad beats Margarito around not unlike the Mayorga fight.
JD
Why not?

Because Margarito is not going up to 170...he just cannot get to 154. If he could, we would see DLH - Trinidad II.
neophyte7
Considering that Daniel Santos beat Margarito at 154 and was stunning him with shots... Tito KO's Margarito - Tito ko'd middles. Tony is no a KO puncher and no matter ho granite his chin seems, taking successive Tito shots will be too much... especially the lef thook
WolfishPromistah
"Considering that Daniel Santos beat Margarito at 154 and was stunning him with shots... Tito KO's Margarito - Tito ko'd middles. Tony is no a KO puncher and no matter ho granite his chin seems, taking successive Tito shots will be too much... especially the lef thook"

For Tony, at 154 I can grant ya acceptance on your logic with no great argument, for Tony is not a 154 pounder. Had he met Tito at 147 lbs, though, considering the fact that Santos was also re hydrated to light-heavy (Oh, and the fact that Santos out boxes from OUTSIDE more than Tito), as well as the fact Tony was COMING BACK ON Santos -- like he was ON Williams, so let's not forget that much! -- I'll say something different.

Tony's arms are maybe around as long as Tito's, unlike tiny-armed Yory Boy Campas' (noted as also the possessor of a fine chin, until Tito touched it); Tony's chin is comparably much better than Tito's AT 147, where as the latter was dropped against possibly lesser punchers -- similarly to how Cotto was at 140; Margarito and Trinidad share the same height, only Tony throws more deceptive angles on his shots with accuracy that are, in my opinion, a little underrated; great strength at the weight, with the same come-forward style that doesn't leave room for backing up; GREATER punch OUTPUT possessed byTony -- WITH power behind it. Furthermore, I would also argue that Tony's a better overall body-puncher, and Tito WOULD be the main guest in "UppercutVille," were the two to meet at 147. My pick: Tony there (Yes, EVEN against the great Felix Tito Trinidad) -- "maybe" not, however, at 154. I just figure again it's JUST one of those style things, sorta like Tito fighting a near mirror image of himself in some ways, just more active than Tito.

Thanks.
neophyte7
Please... Margarito is no where near Tito at all.. I would pick Tito now to beat him if he could make weight. Wow... beat Tito at 147 when he could not even beat Paul Williams... Margarito I guess would beat DLH at welterweight too huh... get the phuck out of here.. Tito KO' this weight drained middlweight

Also, people act like Margarito is superhuman-- In his next fight he liable to show the affects of all of his face fighting. In the interview yesterday the dude looked weary from Cotto damage--- Margarito only has a few fights left in him. Don't be suprised to see him KO'd or stopped. There were times in there against Cotto he looked dead... but he has determination and will, but even that cannot stop the brain from deadening from those head shots.. reflexes are bound to show wear and tear sooner than later...
D-MARV
QUOTE
Wow... beat Tito at 147 when he could not even beat Paul Williams...
is not beating Paul Williams really a bad thing??? Williams would have given all the great Welterweights some trouble! Sugar Ray, Whitaker, Duran, Hearns...
QUOTE
In the interview yesterday the dude looked weary from Cotto damage---

I thought he looked fine!
QUOTE
There were times in there against Cotto he looked dead...
Please give me some rounds!
QUOTE
but he has determination and will, but even that cannot stop the brain from deadening from those head shots.. reflexes are bound to show wear and tear sooner than later...

I do agree with this! With his style of fighting he is at High Risk of permanent damage.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 3 2008, 10:34 AM) [snapback]398725[/snapback]
is not beating Paul Williams really a bad thing??? Williams would have given all the great Welterweights some trouble! Sugar Ray, Whitaker, Duran, Hearns...



OMG... You did not just say this!! Sike I completely agree... Williams size at WW is an incredible advantage. Similar to Wlad's size at heavy. Waaaay too much reach for smaller guys to get a glove on him. I mean, this guy is literally hitting guys before they come out of their corner.

If he continues t make weight, I dont see anybody, including Margarito, beating him.This is why we dont hear Margarito mentioning Paul Williams name. Margarito is my man, but Paul Williams has his number.
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Aug 3 2008, 12:42 PM) [snapback]398760[/snapback]
OMG... You did not just say this!! Sike I completely agree... Williams size at WW is an incredible advantage. Similar to Wlad's size at heavy. Waaaay too much reach for smaller guys to get a glove on him. I mean, this guy is literally hitting guys before they come out of their corner.

If he continues t make weight, I dont see anybody, including Margarito, beating him.This is why we dont hear Margarito mentioning Paul Williams name. Margarito is my man, but Paul Williams has his number.


i think the williams of right now, who came in as focused as he was for the margarito fight, would have no problem outboxing tito all day a la de la hoya/b-hop/winky. i think williams would be able to beat tito easier than he did margarito.
D-MARV
NO Doubt!!!
There is not 1 welterweight in History that I can think of that would have been safe money against Paul Williams. His size, work rate, and toughness makes him a stylistic nightmare for anyone!
neophyte7
Paul Williams starves to make weight...that alone will make him vulnerable to any top fighter on any given night, along with the fact that he is hittable. Good freakish dimensions, but very easy to hit-- young and good though with an upside, but to say that he gives all times greats problems is premature to say the leastt...he still manifests flaws in the ring. He was beaten by Quintana for christ sake, yet he gives SRR and Leonard all sorts of problems? Size is overrated and always has been. Williams is tall and good, but he is no Tommy Hearns...If he were like Tommy then I would say he would give those guys mentioned problems... Williams is not there and size alone does not put him in the real of beating all time great welters. Honestly, I see Joshua Clottey being able to punish him... His volumes of shots would be blocked and he would get roughed up handily in my view...
D-MARV
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Aug 3 2008, 11:18 PM) [snapback]398836[/snapback]
Paul Williams starves to make weight...that alone will make him vulnerable to any top fighter on any given night, along with the fact that he is hittable. Good freakish dimensions, but very easy to hit-- young and good though with an upside, but to say that he gives all times greats problems is premature to say the leastt...he still manifests flaws in the ring. He was beaten by Quintana for christ sake, yet he gives SRR and Leonard all sorts of problems? Size is overrated and always has been. Williams is tall and good, but he is no Tommy Hearns...If he were like Tommy then I would say he would give those guys mentioned problems... Williams is not there and size alone does not put him in the real of beating all time great welters. Honestly, I see Joshua Clottey being able to punish him... His volumes of shots would be blocked and he would get roughed up handily in my view...

Size is not overrated when the guy with the size advantage also carries some pretty decent skills. In this case, Paul has very good skills...
Besides, I didn't say size alone!
Paul also carries a solid chin, always active! and throws decent combinations. If you don't think he troubles guys like Duran and SRL, then maybe you should analyze a little more film!

And Yes... He did lose a close decison to Quintana. But FYI, they fought a rematch on June 7th! Paul demolished Carlos. "To say the least"
D-MARV
double post
Mino
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Aug 3 2008, 11:18 PM) [snapback]398836[/snapback]
Paul Williams starves to make weight...that alone will make him vulnerable to any top fighter on any given night, along with the fact that he is hittable. Good freakish dimensions, but very easy to hit-- young and good though with an upside, but to say that he gives all times greats problems is premature to say the leastt...he still manifests flaws in the ring. He was beaten by Quintana for christ sake, yet he gives SRR and Leonard all sorts of problems? Size is overrated and always has been. Williams is tall and good, but he is no Tommy Hearns...If he were like Tommy then I would say he would give those guys mentioned problems... Williams is not there and size alone does not put him in the real of beating all time great welters. Honestly, I see Joshua Clottey being able to punish him... His volumes of shots would be blocked and he would get roughed up handily in my view...

I agree..I would have to see alot more of Williams to say he could beat some of those guys...Quintana was hitting him pretty easily if I remember correctly...
D-MARV
Maybe somebody can go back and quote me!
But I never said that P WILL would beat the All Time Greats! I simply said he would be trouble.
Big Slim Sweet
LOL. Size is most definitely NOT overrated.
Yucayeke
Question here kinda related to this thread. Is Tito still un-retired? any word on him? I haven't heard a peep and for the record. A Prime Tito takes a Prime Margarito
D-MARV
Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. "SIZE IS NOT OVERRATED!"

I was trying to be nice!
rusty_trombone
I think the better question is, why?
Sugar Q
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 3 2008, 10:34 AM) [snapback]398725[/snapback]
is not beating Paul Williams really a bad thing??? Williams would have given all the great Welterweights some trouble! Sugar Ray, Whitaker, Duran, Hearns...

I thought he looked fine!
Please give me some rounds!

I do agree with this! With his style of fighting he is at High Risk of permanent damage.



This is an example of someone that doesn't know sh-- about boxing. Paul Williams wouldn't even have beaten Aaron Pryor let lone Donald Curry, Milt McCrory, Marlon Starlin, Sweet Pea Whitaker, Meldrick Taylor, Chavez or Buddy Mcgirt and how dare anyone online say that he would have had a chance against Ray Leonard or Tommy "Hitman Hearns. Most of them would've made easy work of the 6 foot Williams who doesnt even know how to properly use his jab or height. Williams wouldn't have a chance against these fighters without a jab or a KO punch. And to think that Margarito "right now" could last in the ring with Tito is crazy. The Tito of old would've DEMOLISHED Margarito and Tito RIGHT NOW would ko Margarito.
Mino
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 4 2008, 11:12 PM) [snapback]399038[/snapback]
This is an example of someone that doesn't know sh-- about boxing. Paul Williams wouldn't even have beaten Aaron Pryor let lone Donald Curry, Milt McCrory, Marlon Starlin, Sweet Pea Whitaker, Meldrick Taylor, Chavez or Buddy Mcgirt and how dare anyone online say that he would have had a chance against Ray Leonard or Tommy "Hitman Hearns. Most of them would've made easy work of the 6 foot Williams who doesnt even know how to properly use his jab or height. Williams wouldn't have a chance against these fighters without a jab or a KO punch. And to think that Margarito "right now" could last in the ring with Tito is crazy. The Tito of old would've DEMOLISHED Margarito and Tito RIGHT NOW would ko Margarito.

Agreed I dont think there is a time that Marg could beat Tito past or present...But I do think it would be fun to watch as Marg would still try and walk Tito down which would not happen....
D-MARV
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 4 2008, 11:12 PM) [snapback]399038[/snapback]
This is an example of someone that doesn't know sh-- about boxing. Paul Williams wouldn't even have beaten Aaron Pryor let lone Donald Curry, Milt McCrory, Marlon Starlin, Sweet Pea Whitaker, Meldrick Taylor, Chavez or Buddy Mcgirt and how dare anyone online say that he would have had a chance against Ray Leonard or Tommy "Hitman Hearns. Most of them would've made easy work of the 6 foot Williams who doesnt even know how to properly use his jab or height. Williams wouldn't have a chance against these fighters without a jab or a KO punch. And to think that Margarito "right now" could last in the ring with Tito is crazy. The Tito of old would've DEMOLISHED Margarito and Tito RIGHT NOW would ko Margarito.


I don't know Sh*t????? You say Felix would KO Margarito Today??? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's get something straight, before you come at me with your opinion please make sure you have your facts together! You sound like a complete jacka$$ when you throw out false statements. Paul Williams is 6'2 for starters...

Milton McCrory? this guy was knocked out in every big fight he was in... laugh.gif

Hey wait a minute, hmmm... Are you the same guy that said Oscar would stop Margarito???... LOL

You know what, Im not going to waste my time with irrelevant posters! Ill just roll with the punches!

Goodnight Sugar!




Sugar Q
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 5 2008, 12:34 AM) [snapback]399058[/snapback]
I don't know Sh*t????? You say Felix would KO Margarito Today??? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's get something straight, before you come at me with your opinion please make sure you have your facts together! You sound like a complete jacka$$ when you throw out false statements. Paul Williams is 6'2 for starters...

Milton McCrory? this guy was knocked out in every big fight he was in... laugh.gif

Hey wait a minute, hmmm... Are you the same guy that said Oscar would stop Margarito???... LOL

You know what, Im not going to waste my time with irrelevant posters! Ill just roll with the punches!

Goodnight Sugar!



Williams could be 7'2 he would still get chopped down by any of the greats. Can you imagine Williams trying to Keep Chavez off without a KO punch? Hearns would stop Williams early. I wouldn't even wanna see Williams fight Ray Leonard in fear of what Ray would do to him. Coming from a guy who's been in the ring size means nothing if you fight down to your opponents level. Williams is a 6'2 inside fighter with no KO punch (Quintana got caught). Hearns was 32-0(30 ko's) as a welter-wt and we will definitely talk if Oscar gets off this Manny joke and takes a fight with Margarito remember I told you. Tony is perfect for Oscar. You dont come straight at Oscar unless you have a KO punch. This time Tony will be in with someone his own size and you will see the difference. It's clear your opinion is based on the Cotto and Cintron fights but I suggest you go back and watch the Santos, Williams and Clottey fights. smile.gif
rusty_trombone
I also think DLH would tear Tony up, at least the DLH of old. I don't know about the current version
Big Slim Sweet
Oscar may have better survival instincts than Cotto so lasting the distance is a possibility for him but that's about it. No way the Oscar of 2008 can beat Margarito.
JD
Based upon what I have seen of both men recently, I will confidently pick Margarito over this version of Oscar.

I did not like what I saw against Forbes at all.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 5 2008, 11:39 AM) [snapback]399129[/snapback]
Williams could be 7'2 he would still get chopped down by any of the greats. Can you imagine Williams trying to Keep Chavez off without a KO punch? Hearns would stop Williams early. I wouldn't even wanna see Williams fight Ray Leonard in fear of what Ray would do to him. Coming from a guy who's been in the ring size means nothing if you fight down to your opponents level. Williams is a 6'2 inside fighter with no KO punch (Quintana got caught). Hearns was 32-0(30 ko's) as a welter-wt and we will definitely talk if Oscar gets off this Manny joke and takes a fight with Margarito remember I told you. Tony is perfect for Oscar. You dont come straight at Oscar unless you have a KO punch. This time Tony will be in with someone his own size and you will see the difference. It's clear your opinion is based on the Cotto and Cintron fights but I suggest you go back and watch the Santos, Williams and Clottey fights. smile.gif

Are you serious?
I wasn't impressed by what Margarito did to Clottey or Cintron. Iam impressed by his ability to take a punch... You must not know me that good! If you Did, you would know that I'm one of the clear Margarito Haters!!!! My opinion is based on what Ive seen of Oscar lately! He hasn't been impressive whatsoever. I wouldn't be all that shocked if Oscar beat Margarito but I will be shocked if he stopped him.

Now back to Paul Williams... He did very well against Margarito!!!! Why wouldn't I believe that he Could have some success against a fighter like Chavez? In no way Am I saying that Margarito is better than Chavez but he sure is bigger and more active than Chavez. Paul was able to hold him off enough to get the nod. Face it dude! Size does play a role! Paul's long arms, solid chin, and activity would have been trouble for any welterweight! Ill stand by my words!
neophyte7
I maintain that size is overrated , especially when you put a big guy in with a small guy with better skills. How many times have guys with size disadvantages beat the bigger fighter. margarito is big and has more than one loss -- his losses to Santos were due to Santos being better-- Tony had enough size o him even though Santos was weighing near 175--- Santos was more skilled than Margarito

Jones Jr was an undersized 175 (let him tell it) most of his career... aaron pryor would tear a whole in Paul Williams and he was 5"6... Dwight Muhammad Quai was 5"7

I would be anxious to see statistics on fighter with height advantages over their opponents and weight and the resulting winning percentages... Size is overrated-- just because a guy is bigger than another guy does not guarantee a damned thing... Hell, Look at how shitty Jermaine Taylor performed against Cory Spinks LOL--- a good case could have been made for a draw in that one, yet everyone including Taylor said Spinks was going to sleep---


Size is overrated in a game that combines a multitude of other factors-- plenty of small guys vanquish bigger opponents



Paul Williams at 6"2 would get eaten alive by a prime Hands of Stone--- Roberto Duran at 37 and 5"7 beat a big middleweight in Iran Barkley and took his title-- the so called size advantage did nothing for Iran Barkley the night Roberto Duran (a natural 135 pounder) beat his ass


back to the point-- Margarito has a great chin that infatuates people into thinking that he is okay after his fight with Cotto, suffering no damage LOL but I am sure that we will see some ill effects of wear and tear sooner than later--- if he fought Trinidad he could not take those left hooks for 12 rounds--- no way
Fitz
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Aug 6 2008, 02:37 AM) [snapback]399139[/snapback]
I maintain that size is overrated , especially when you put a big guy in with a small guy with better skills. How many times have guys with size disadvantages beat the bigger fighter. margarito is big and has more than one loss -- his losses to Santos were due to Santos being better-- Tony had enough size o him even though Santos was weighing near 175--- Santos was more skilled than Margarito

Jones Jr was an undersized 175 (let him tell it) most of his career... aaron pryor would tear a whole in Paul Williams and he was 5"6... Dwight Muhammad Quai was 5"7

I would be anxious to see statistics on fighter with height advantages over their opponents and weight and the resulting winning percentages... Size is overrated-- just because a guy is bigger than another guy does not guarantee a damned thing... Hell, Look at how shitty Jermaine Taylor performed against Cory Spinks LOL--- a good case could have been made for a draw in that one, yet everyone including Taylor said Spinks was going to sleep---
Size is overrated in a game that combines a multitude of other factors-- plenty of small guys vanquish bigger opponents
Paul Williams at 6"2 would get eaten alive by a prime Hands of Stone--- Roberto Duran at 37 and 5"7 beat a big middleweight in Iran Barkley and took his title-- the so called size advantage did nothing for Iran Barkley the night Roberto Duran (a natural 135 pounder) beat his ass


Yeah they may not always win, but how does being big become a disadvantage? lol.
neophyte7
I don't think I stated it is a disadvantage but it can work against a guy--- for instance height... a tall fighter can have problems keeping a small quick guy from getting inside and busting his ribs up... if a tall fighter cannot jab and keep the smaller, quicker guy from getting inside.. the smaller fighter has turned a supposed disadvantage into an advantage. Taller fighters often have problems against smaller fighters...
Big Slim Sweet
There are always exceptions to every rule but in general, size does matter. That's not really up for debate.

And Margarito's loss - not losses - to Santos was not due to Santos being better, but rather due to the fight taking place in Santos' backyard. Anyone who watched that fight live could see there was something shady in the way that was handled.
BigG
Forget Tito

Why not Margarito-Santos III at 154?

Santos just won a belt by KO vs an impressive fighter in alcline.

Santos still has a W over Margarito..a controversial one..but still a win on his record. I think Margarito beats Santos in a 3rd fight by razor sharp decision.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(JD @ Aug 5 2008, 12:08 PM) [snapback]399137[/snapback]
Based upon what I have seen of both men recently, I will confidently pick Margarito over this version of Oscar.

I did not like what I saw against Forbes at all.



A quick, slick, veteran boxer will always be a problem but put Oscar in there with a fighter that comes straight at him and he will look like a beast.



Sugar Q
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Aug 5 2008, 01:11 PM) [snapback]399142[/snapback]
I don't think I stated it is a disadvantage but it can work against a guy--- for instance height... a tall fighter can have problems keeping a small quick guy from getting inside and busting his ribs up... if a tall fighter cannot jab and keep the smaller, quicker guy from getting inside.. the smaller fighter has turned a supposed disadvantage into an advantage. Taller fighters often have problems against smaller fighters...




I couldn't have said it better smile.gif
JD
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 5 2008, 03:34 PM) [snapback]399155[/snapback]
A quick, slick, veteran boxer will always be a problem but put Oscar in there with a fighter that comes straight at him and he will look like a beast.


I think you are expecting the Mayorga version of Oscar...problem is, Margarito is better than that version of Mayorga and Oscar is not as good as that version of Oscar.

Steve Forbes had absolutely nothing on Oscar...sure 2 Pound is slick, but he isn't quick at 150, he is tiney and he certainly cannot punch worth a damn, and he touched up Oscar in there. With Oscar's standard late round fade, I think that Margarito is far more likely to look like the beast here.
BigG
DLH's NOT beating Margarito at this stage. Margarito would put a beating on DLH late in the fight.
JD
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 5 2008, 04:08 PM) [snapback]399159[/snapback]
DLH's NOT beating Margarito at this stage. Margarito would put a beating on DLH late in the fight.


Agreed.

Oscar does not have the stamina to get it done...he would look very bad late in this fight.
BigG
DLH is better of against Cotto or Mayweather..Or Pacman lol...someone as strong and physical as Margarito is wrong for DLH. I think even Cotto puts a beating on DLH but that's just my opinion.
D-MARV
I feel that Oscar will win some of the early rounds then he will fade down the stretch... Margarito will come on strong and probably get the points victory! Close... but pretty clear.
neophyte7
Oscar has the jab to handle Margarito... he would need Floyd SR for Sure, but Margarito other than size brings nothing Goldie has not seen. Oscar fought Hopkins... Margarito is not as strong as Hopkins... another thing... Delahoya should take this fight because Oscar has the height and reach the question of course is his stamina, but let us not forget that Margarito is bound to show ill affects and slowing from the punishment he took from Cotto and in general from his style of fighting over the years. His next fight could see his faculties betray him in terms of reflexes etc...
D-MARV
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Aug 6 2008, 01:53 PM) [snapback]399340[/snapback]
Oscar has the jab to handle Margarito... he would need Floyd SR for Sure, but Margarito other than size brings nothing Goldie has not seen. Oscar fought Hopkins... Margarito is not as strong as Hopkins... another thing... Delahoya should take this fight because Oscar has the height and reach the question of course is his stamina, but let us not forget that Margarito is bound to show ill affects and slowing from the punishment he took from Cotto and in general from his style of fighting over the years. His next fight could see his faculties betray him in terms of reflexes etc...

I agree! a trainer like Floyd Sr. would be great against a fighter like Margarito. I just dont think Oscar has enough left to overcome Margarito.
PUERTOROCKS
Tito losses are to guys bigger than him. I say Tito by brutal ko (Tito's chin is way better than Cotto's.) Margarito would not back Tito up.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 6 2008, 09:30 PM) [snapback]399411[/snapback]
I agree! a trainer like Floyd Sr. would be great against a fighter like Margarito. I just dont think Oscar has enough left to overcome Margarito.



Oscar has fought MUCH better opposition and has KO'd bigger guys. We have never seen Margarito take it from a quick, hard punching, big fighter that is still one of the best finishers in the game. Margarito's biggest win is still against a man that moved up in weight.
carlos
Tito should call out Margo at 160lbs and show Cotto how is done. I would pick Tito by KO. Tito in his prime would have been too much for Margo. Tito was a homerun hitter.
basicjab

In a theoretical matchup at welterweight, Margo is a huge welter but Tito was one of the biggest welterweights of all time. I would imagine Margo gets punished than TKOd based on size and styles, very few people can go toe to toe with Tito at welter and Jr middle.
WolfishPromistah
Tito wasn't a one punch KO artist. He would therefore have to possess a better chin to stop Margarito's onslaught because they are very well-matched comparably in most ways of physical attributes, except there, which is where it'd matter most.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(PUERTOROCKS @ Aug 7 2008, 12:14 PM) [snapback]399490[/snapback]
Tito losses are to guys bigger than him. I say Tito by brutal ko (Tito's chin is way better than Cotto's.) Margarito would not back Tito up.

How surprising!
D-MARV
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 8 2008, 04:48 PM) [snapback]399617[/snapback]
. We have never seen Margarito take it from a quick, hard punching, big fighter that is still one of the best finishers in the game.

Are you talking about Oscar in this quote?????
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