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Byrd Man
So I don't have HBO/SHOWTIME or any of that, but I heard my boy Max called out Floyd last night. lol. Talking about how he ducked a lotta people and shit.

Can someone post up a transcript or a video or something?

Get em Max! lolol

clapping.gif
D-MARV
Yeah He did! He basicaly told him to come out of retirement and fight Margarito! It was a good laugh for a moment!

I have to ask it! Who wins? Mayweather-Margarito

give me Mayweather by WIDE UD
JD
Mayweather far more flat-footed at 147...and I do not think he does anything wide or with ease against Margarito. I think Margarito's pressure, size, strength and output would cause lots and lots of problems for Floyd, because we know Floyd will never be able to get his respect.

It is a fight I have always wanted to see.
BigG
I think Margarito would give Mayweather alot of trouble with size and pressure...but it would probably be really hard for him to catch Mayweather with something big and clean.
ROLL DEEP
This fight needs to happen, but I doubt very much PBF will come out of 'retirement' to fight him.


Which sucks.
Big Slim Sweet
Kellerman basically said if Mayweather is retired because he thinks he's proven all he can and his legacy as an ATG is secure, then he needs to return and fight Margarito like yesterday because he's dead wrong.

On the other hand Max said if Mayweather is retired because he's lost his drive and passion for the sport, then he needs to stay retired because no one should ever fight Margarito with one foot in and foot out of boxing.

Mayweather may have come back for Cotto had he won, but he won't come back for Margarito. And if he does he'll get knocked out, and deep down in the pit of his soul he knows it. I used to think PBF would find a way to beat Tony if they ever fought, but I've changed my mind, and the Cotto fight has nothing to do with it. Floyd's scared of Tony. Always has been. And if mentally he already bends down and takes it up the ass from him when he envisions them within a few feet of each other, then physically he'll fold up like a cheap whore if and when the time ever comes.

Floyd, stay retired. You don't want any of what's out there waiting for you.

no2.gif
woooooo
The fight would suck if they ever fought.

Mayweather would be running rope to rope for 12 rounds potshotting.
Sugar Q
Max is my dude but he's delusional. PBF would smash Margarito's ass. This fight clearly showed that Margarito has problems with boxer/movers and PBF is the best. If Cotto would've left that bravado sh-- at home, used his legs and stayed off the ropes people would be saying how great Cotto is right now. PBF is the most intelligent boxer in the game maybe the smartest ever. Dude is a master at adapting to his opponents style. He would not stand in front of Tony with that bravado BS. Tony would be swinging and missing all nite. We all would love to see the fight happen. You gotta love Tony Margarito, he is a consummate professional, always in great condition and always comes to fight but his ass gets chewed up by PBF. He;s just too one dimensional for PBF. Trust me, size wont matter Margarito would never get a chance to get set. People in here seems to sleep on DelaHoya. Dont be surprised if DeLaHoya stops Tony if they fight. Shane also (if he leaves the bravado sh-- home and fights smart) could give Margarito hell. Quick, smart boxers with good footwork spells disaster for Tony. Sit in front of him and you could have serious problems on your hands.
JD
It's too bad we will never know.

Floyd got out on top, but also when he had the longest list of intriguing and challenging fights in front of him. I think Floyd's earlier career troubles with Castillo tells us something, because Margarito is bigger, stronger, more active and more aggressive than Castillo was...though Castillo has the better speed.

As I said, it is too bad we will never know...because we aren't going to see it.
HaydelHammer
max made an a$$ of him damn self last night. calling out a retired fighter who could care less...then mentioned nobody at welter can or wants to take margarito..etc,etc.


then bob poppa had to tap him on the shoulder and mentioned ...err umm....."there is a guy by the name of Paul Williams who might have a claim..etc,etc"......the blank stare and silence on max's face was legendary. LOL

dumba$$
Byrd Man
QUOTE(HaydelHammer @ Aug 3 2008, 12:13 PM) [snapback]398754[/snapback]
max made an a$$ of him damn self last night. calling out a retired fighter who could care less...then mentioned nobody at welter can or wants to take margarito..etc,etc.
then bob poppa had to tap him on the shoulder and mentioned ...err umm....."there is a guy by the name of Paul Williams who might have a claim..etc,etc"......the blank stare and silence on max's face was legendary. LOL

dumba$$


Everyone knows Floyd isn't retired. Come on now.

Margarito is KNOWN as a guy who has been ducked many many times. Fighters don't want to fight him. There may be someone out there that is willing to fight him, but it's very few and far between, and rarely anyone who's got position near the top of the rankings.

Get off the anti-Max bandwagon and jump on the Stanwagon! lol
WolfishPromistah
QUOTE(woooooo @ Aug 3 2008, 11:54 AM) [snapback]398744[/snapback]
The fight would suck if they ever fought.

Mayweather would be running rope to rope for 12 rounds potshotting.


Oh, you mean – LIKE – to win, similarly to how a boxer who's never been noted to hit AS HARD as many others constantly did it, and while he ALSO is STILL considered more skillful and sharper than the current crop, being as during his reign his wins were so decisively successful in BOXING?



How kind of you to give props where due!


I'm sure "Money" would thank you for it (smile).
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 3 2008, 10:56 AM) [snapback]398745[/snapback]
Max is my dude but he's delusional. PBF would smash Margarito's ass. This fight clearly showed that Margarito has problems with boxer/movers and PBF is the best. If Cotto would've left that bravado sh-- at home, used his legs and stayed off the ropes people would be saying how great Cotto is right now. PBF is the most intelligent boxer in the game maybe the smartest ever. Dude is a master at adapting to his opponents style. He would not stand in front of Tony with that bravado BS. Tony would be swinging and missing all nite. We all would love to see the fight happen. You gotta love Tony Margarito, he is a consummate professional, always in great condition and always comes to fight but his ass gets chewed up by PBF. He;s just too one dimensional for PBF. Trust me, size wont matter Margarito would never get a chance to get set. People in here seems to sleep on DelaHoya. Dont be surprised if DeLaHoya stops Tony if they fight. Shane also (if he leaves the bravado sh-- home and fights smart) could give Margarito hell. Quick, smart boxers with good footwork spells disaster for Tony. Sit in front of him and you could have serious problems on your hands.

First off whether he fights again or not PBF would never 'smash" Margarito. He may be able to pull out a decision with running and potshotting, but there is zero chance he would do the same number on Tony that he did on Gatti (an example of a fight where PBF did in fact smash his opponent)

Also, while you're right about what a good slick boxer can do to beat Margarito, being able to do it for 12 rounds under the kind of pressure he brings is a far from easy. I really don't think Cotto stupidly 'chose' to be brave. He was gassing and had no choice. Mosley and Floyd both have better stamina than Cotto does (Oscar does not) but still, I need to see it to believe that one of them can pull it off for 12 whole rounds against Margarito, who despite all his shortcomings is a flat-out beast at welterweight.

QUOTE(HaydelHammer @ Aug 3 2008, 11:13 AM) [snapback]398754[/snapback]
max made an a$$ of him damn self last night. calling out a retired fighter who could care less...then mentioned nobody at welter can or wants to take margarito..etc,etc.
then bob poppa had to tap him on the shoulder and mentioned ...err umm....."there is a guy by the name of Paul Williams who might have a claim..etc,etc"......the blank stare and silence on max's face was legendary. LOL

dumba$$

Actually Max said then and there that Williams was the only other welteweight with a claim to the title. I didn't notice a blank stare, and there certainly wasn't any silence.

QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Aug 3 2008, 11:18 AM) [snapback]398756[/snapback]
Margarito is KNOWN as a guy who has been ducked many many times. Fighters don't want to fight him. There may be someone out there that is willing to fight him, but it's very few and far between, and rarely anyone who's got position near the top of the rankings.

Exactly. Just because Paul Williams happens to be willing to fight Margarito doesn't invalidate Tony's legitimate claims that others haven't been so willing the past few years.
Landiz_Tha Don
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Aug 3 2008, 08:51 AM) [snapback]398742[/snapback]
Kellerman basically said if Mayweather is retired because he thinks he's proven all he can and his legacy as an ATG is secure, then he needs to return and fight Margarito like yesterday because he's dead wrong.

On the other hand Max said if Mayweather is retired because he's lost his drive and passion for the sport, then he needs to stay retired because no one should ever fight Margarito with one foot in and foot out of boxing.

Mayweather may have come back for Cotto had he won, but he won't come back for Margarito. And if he does he'll get knocked out, and deep down in the pit of his soul he knows it. I used to think PBF would find a way to beat Tony if they ever fought, but I've changed my mind, and the Cotto fight has nothing to do with it. Floyd's scared of Tony. Always has been. And if mentally he already bends down and takes it up the ass from him when he envisions them within a few feet of each other, then physically he'll fold up like a cheap whore if and when the time ever comes.

Floyd, stay retired. You don't want any of what's out there waiting for you.

no2.gif


BIG SLIM U GOT IT ON POINT, MAX KELLERMAN TELLS IT LIKE IT IS, AND FOR MAYWEATHER BEING MENTALLY SCARED OF ANTONIO MARGARITO IS CORRECT.

HERES A LITTLE VIDEO I FOUND ON YOUTUBE. thumbsup_anim.gif

Is Floyd ducking Margarito???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro

Landiz_Tha Don

Peace!
MarzB
Yet another pathetic attempt to goat "Money Man" by Max and the "HATING" author of this thread. Again it's amazing how someone apparently so "boring", "who's overrated" can constantly remain on the tongue of those same haters.

Max should have spent more time calling out Oscar with this farce of a fight with Pacquiao than a retired boxer.

As mentioned in this thread. Everything that Cotto did RIGHT from defense, lateral movement, hooks and jabs, Floyd does BETTER and Floyd doesn't get hit with all those roundhouse shots that Cotto took.
Byrd Man
Marz, although you might disagree, I'm not a hater on anyone.

I don't like Mayweather, based on his arrogance, and his disrespectful attitude towards other boxers. and the fact that he has refused to fight the best in his division, just dismissing them and saying "oh I'm better, I don't need to fight them"

Whether or not you think he would win against anyone else, is not the point. The point is that he refused to fight them. For all we know he would destroy any and every single person. but we don't know that. And until he mans up and fights those in his division instead of going outside his division to find people everyone knows he's got a massive advantage over, then he'll never be considered the greatest in everyone's eyes.

I've mentioned this before, but apparantly it bears repeating.

Can you imagine Ali refusing to fight Frazier or Foreman, and just saying "they're not worthy of fighting me. Instead I'm gonna fight a cruiserweight to come up and fight me because it'll make more money. And then retiring without fighting Foreman, Frazier or Liston and then saying "I'm the best ever"

Not to compare any of today's welters to any of those fighters, but the point is the same. You can't say you're the best if you haven't fought the best.

That's not hating that's just common sense. When he retired he had only fought ONE fighter in the top 5 or 6 WW's. And that was Zab Judah.

He didn't fight Williams, Cotto, Margarito, Mosely or Cintron. Oh but he's the best ever? Because he beat Gatti and Judah? And he beat DLH and Hatton?

He can move to different divisions and win all the belts he wants, but if he's perceived as ducking legitimate threats, in search of money fights instead, then....how can you not call him out on that?

To blindly follow this dude with no attention spent on his negatives is just ludicrous.

And I'm not hating on Mayweather. I've always said that he's a phenomenal fighter, got incredible skills blessed to him by God Himself. And odds are he would have wiped the floor with all of those fighters. But if he doesn't fight them, we'll never know. And if he never fights them, we can't call him the best.

That's just how I feel.
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(Landiz_Tha Don @ Aug 3 2008, 12:50 PM) [snapback]398762[/snapback]
BIG SLIM U GOT IT ON POINT, MAX KELLERMAN TELLS IT LIKE IT IS, AND FOR MAYWEATHER BEING MENTALLY SCARED OF ANTONIO MARGARITO IS CORRECT.

HERES A LITTLE VIDEO I FOUND ON YOUTUBE. thumbsup_anim.gif

Is Floyd ducking Margarito???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOSYzIKJFro

Landiz_Tha Don

Peace!


yeah. i think part of this stems from the fact that usually mayweather's opponents are scared of him. gatti was clearly scared. de la hoya and hatton were both tentative and a little baffled, etc. castillo was one guy who wasn't mentally scared of mayweather. i think mayweather recognizes (as do others) that margarito isn't scared to fight him and has the size and power to hurt him. so i think mayweather would rather not deal with that.
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Aug 3 2008, 02:20 PM) [snapback]398770[/snapback]
I don't like Mayweather, based on his arrogance, and his disrespectful attitude towards other boxers. and the fact that he has refused to fight the best in his division, just dismissing them and saying "oh I'm better, I don't need to fight them"


what mayweather doesn't know is that i'm actually the greatest fighter to ever live. i'm so much better than everyone else that i don't really need to fight them though. but i'm the greatest.
Byrd Man
well....YEAH...that's obvious isn't it, Equalizer?

MarzB
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I was going to say that by some of you (ByrdMan) will never be satisfied. Floyd would have to fight, **ahem** Andre Berto, Paul Williams (laughing that he's mentioned), Margarito, Cotto and now Joshua Clottey to supposedly "SECURE" his legacy and even if he were to fight all those people, some of you would scream, "now that that the Peterson brothers have moved up, he needs to fight them".

Whatever there.

Whether or not you think he would win against anyone else, is not the point. The point is that he refused to fight them. For all we know he would destroy any and every single person. but we don't know that. And until he mans up and fights those in his division instead of going outside his division to find people everyone knows he's got a massive advantage over, then he'll never be considered the greatest in everyone's eyes.


Do we have to go through this again?? I'm going to spell this out for you, FEEL HOW YOU WANT, HERE ARE THE FACTS..

Contrary to what you all think the sport is about, as Ray Leonard once said, "you can play football, basketball, YOU CAN't PLAY BOXING". That said its your job as a boxer to get the most lucrative amount or fights that set you up to earn a lucrative bout, usually a title bout but not in all cases as we'll soon see.

First off I wanna clarify what this thread implies. what Max actually sAID last night was the following.

"If Floyd retired because he thinks his legacy is secured, he's got another thing coming. However if Floyd retired because his heart isn't into it then let him be". I think it's the later and it has NOTHING to do with being scarred. I've mentioned this time and time again also but I'm amazed that Floyd's brittle Hands ever get any real discussion here. But back to history. Heres the REAL chronology of what went down..


Circa 2005-

Floyd was in line to fight GAtti in his first PPV. The other champs were Vivian Harris and Kostya Tsyu at 140lb. Kostya was set up to fight Ricky Hatton and lost in April I believe. Cotto was still up and coming and Floyd will we know but the key here is they were both on TOP RANK at the time. If Arum was so confident pre Margarito fight (bastard) about Cotto and Floyd he could have clearly made that fight then. But anyways..

Flash forward. Tsyu loses, Hatton wins and goes on to fight that retard Maussa after Harris layed an eg. Floyd figures, "hell I may as well go up to welterweight" as he was clearly eyeing a fight with Zab Judah who was then the linear belt holder and eventually wanting to get to De la Hoya the Golden Goose.

Meantime Margarito is making murmurs on the scene having made Kermit the "Crybaby' cry and fighting the great "Manual Gomez" (smirk).

So now 2006...
Judah loses but the bout is made between he and Floyd because it's the more lucrative bout and now negotiations between Floyd and Dela Hoya begin with Dela Hoya saying, "WE CAN'T Make a FIGHT as long as you're with Bob Arum". Mind you I'm sure he also mentioned it would be more lucrative if he were away from Arum.

So after Floyd beats Judah he pays $750K to get out of his contract with Arum. Clearly to set up a very lucrative (as we later learned) fight with Dela Hoya. Now Arum makes his great grand $8,000,000 offer that Floyd turns down. WhY?? Well lets look at whats on the table here..

Get back with the promoter who I'm certain wanted options if Floyd took that offer that he just paid to get out of and ruin his chances for a fight with Dela.
Win a trinket of a WBO belt that NO ONE really cares about.
Fight Baldomir for what will end but being more money for the LINEAR championship of the division ($8,000,001 + PPV buys which equaled $10 Million dollars).
Fight Cory Spinks for the 154 championship but that fight was soundly BOOED once it was leaked.
Fight Cotto despite an offer not being made and Cotto brining nothing to the table but a win over Malignaggi and him JUST turning weltereight.

Well now that I've laid it out, it's pretty OBVIOUS why he choose Baldomir. More money and keep the freedom to make the Oscar fight.


2007-
The Oscar fight was made in November of 2006 and now Paul Williams is coming along. No where is he in the picture until he beats Sharmba Mitchell I believe some bum on the Mayweather /Baldy undercard. This puts him in line to fight Margarito where Margarito was clearly avoiding him to set up a bout with Cotto. More lucrative understood but Margarito KNEW that his only bargaining chip in the fight game at the time was that WBO belt.

So again, what choices should Floyd have taken up to this point?? Demand a fight with Williams and avoid a $20-30 million dollar showdown?? Come on..

We know Floyd beats Dela Hoya in a record breaking fight and now Ricky Hatton challenges him and is bringing a lot more money to the table. Since then, the great Margarito has looked like crap against Clottey and LOST Williams so now he's lost ANY chance whatsoever at the time to land a fight.

Now is it Paul Williams or Ricky Hatton. Again to me the finances take over here as no one here as much as you all would have loved to see a Floyd vs Williams fight, Hatton brought much more to the table.


There we have it. NEVER NEVER was there a Cotto offer on the table but just a big mouth jilted promoter who is mad that he's lost a fighter and that fighter went on to make multi millions without him. So of course he's gonna do a smear game.


Some of you might not like the choices because I think a lot of you just wanna see blood and guts but lets not act like fights were on the table and he clearly ducked them. Those are all guys who know that if they fought MONEY MAY they'd have to have their' "A" game set.

I got an idea...

Why not let these guys fight each other and build up their OWN names in the mainstream light then since Floyd has a huge ego (which he does), and doesn't want to see anyone being considered the number one, THEY themselves can bring him out. Cotto who was being breed for that lost that opportunity 7 days ago. Lets see if Margarito AVENGES his LOSS to Williams (a NAME on the telecast he didn't UTTER once, talk about ducking) or gives Clottey that opportunity.

Otherwise let "MONEY" be. He's gone, done, finetto.

Byrd Man
Well I will say that if he retired because he was just not up for it anymore, or if his hands were not going to hold up, that's fine. And that's respectable. However Mayweather is always going to face those suspicions that he was avoiding fighters.

And while what you wrote is very convincing, and I am not disputing any of that because I don't pretend to know enough to do so, my issues have been that after he fought DLH and Hatton, there were a LOT of people clamoring for a fight with Cotto or Margo. Mostly Cotto.

And instead what does he do? He goes for a rematch against DLH and then is already talking about a final fight, a rematch against Hatton.

Both are fights that nobody wanted to see. I don't know if ANY Boxing fan that was interested in seeing him rematch either one of those dudes, but he even came out and said on ESPN, when Brian Kenny asked why he was looking at Hatton again, he rubbed his fingers together signalling "money".

So if you have someone that is trying to make "money" fights to fight two guys NOBODY is interested in seeing, two guys who most people view you as having already convincingly defeated, instead of fighting people that a lot of boxing fans, and commentators and people involved in boxing want to see you face, that leads quite clearly into accusations of avoiding or ducking them.

My view is that instead of looking to rematch DLH and Hatton, he should have looked to his own division. He talks about being the best WW in his division but he didn't fight the others in his division. He didn't fight Cotto, he didnt' fight Margo, he didn't fight Williams. No matter whether you think they would win, it's the PERCEPTION.

I think that's what Max meant by his legacy. Those questions will ALWAYS be out there, whether that's legit or not. That's just the way it is.

And I have NEVER called Mayweather overrated, for the record. I don't like his personality and his attitude, but I've NEVER questioned his skills, his abilities, or anything like that.

You may be referring to someone else with some of those comments.

And why is it that whenever someone doesn't kiss a boxer's ass, that they're "haters"? Why is it that if I have a problem with the actions of a boxer, that I'm a hater?

I ripped Bernard Hopkins for going back on his promise to stop fighting by his 41st birthday (a promise he made to his now deceased grandmother). The result? I'm a hater.

I ripped Mayweather for not fighting the best WW's in his division and instead going for money fights. And his attitude and arrogance. Oh I'm a hater.

The word "hater" is thrown out way too much, usually whenever someone is upset that their favorite boxer isn't getting blowjobs from the media or the fans.
Byrd Man
Also, if Mayweather were to have come out and basically outlined all of what you said, that'd be one thing.

But he dismisses any of those fighters as not being on his level so he doesn't even need to bother with them. "They don't bring ppv buys to the table, why should I fuck with them?"

What happened to fighting the best available guy in your division? It's not like Mayweather had no money. He had cleaned up in money, he had invested it wisely I suppose, and he's still chasing the dollar.

So when he's broached about fighting these respectable fighters and he stutters and stammers through a dismissal of them and say "I don't need to fight them, but I'm gonna go fight DLH who hasn't won a meaningful fight in forever" that's speaking loud and clear.
Jack 1000
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Aug 3 2008, 10:56 AM) [snapback]398745[/snapback]
Max is my dude but he's delusional. PBF would smash Margarito's ass. This fight clearly showed that Margarito has problems with boxer/movers and PBF is the best. If Cotto would've left that bravado sh-- at home, used his legs and stayed off the ropes people would be saying how great Cotto is right now. PBF is the most intelligent boxer in the game maybe the smartest ever. Dude is a master at adapting to his opponents style. He would not stand in front of Tony with that bravado BS. Tony would be swinging and missing all nite. We all would love to see the fight happen. You gotta love Tony Margarito, he is a consummate professional, always in great condition and always comes to fight but his ass gets chewed up by PBF. He;s just too one dimensional for PBF. Trust me, size wont matter Margarito would never get a chance to get set. People in here seems to sleep on DelaHoya. Dont be surprised if DeLaHoya stops Tony if they fight. Shane also (if he leaves the bravado sh-- home and fights smart) could give Margarito hell. Quick, smart boxers with good footwork spells disaster for Tony. Sit in front of him and you could have serious problems on your hands.



I take Mayweather over Margarito. You can't compare a Mayweather-Margarito fight to the Margarito-Cotto fight. Floyd has a totally different style. You can compare Mayweather to Paul Williams, and Williams was able to frustrate Margarito with his height and reach in winning a close fight. Williams is also a different style than Cotto, and styles make or break fights and fighters. With the jab, move, and quickness, everything that Cotto did successfully against Margarito for most of the early rounds of their fight, Floyd could box better. Mayweather-Margarito would still be a tough fight, perhaps Floyd's toughest since Castillo I, but the result would be similar to Williams-Margarito.

Who wouldn't want to see Floyd's arrogant bastared ass KTFO? The problem is, as Archie Moore said of Ali, "The boy needs a good spanking, I am just not sure who could give it to him." Well, it's the same for Floyd. He's too technically skilled as a boxer and doesn't have the style of fighting to go to war. (The only reason he did somewhat against Hatton, was because once Floyd realized that Hatton was being over-taken by his boxing ability, he could afford to rough him up, because later in the fight, Hatton could no longer hurt him or land effective shots. Castillo forced a war against Floyd the first time. I don't think Floyd that too much. He'd rather play it safe at this stage. Most money for the least risk. Floyd Mayweather/Roy Jones have the same type of attitude about fighting and similar boxing styles. However, I consider both to be boxers, not fighters. If you really want a war, you have to have two WARRIORS to make a war, not one guy trying to war and the other guy doing a "Dancing With The Stars" jab and dance routine for 12 rounds. The problem is Floyd's attitude (and Roy's would be,) "I'm a great dancer and can win 8 rounds out of 12 by doing that minimally, so fuck a brawl. I'm too great for that shit."

The classic Mayweather line for a proposed Margarito fight: "Fuck it, Margarito's got 5 losses. You want to see the greatest fighter in the universe take on a guy with 5 losses?" WTF do I prove by doing that? Typical excuse from Floyd, equates to no high-risk fight, Margarito or otherwise."

Jack
thehype
Mayweather by Split Decision

Margarito will have some success, but not quite enough in the eyes of the judges as the majority of his shots will land on Floyd's back and arms due to Mayweather standing sideways as opposed to squaring up against the ropes (like Cotto was doing). It'll be close and a rematch will be in order, but sadly, we'll never get it.

Floyd will fight again...fighting is too deep into his blood for him not to...but it's gonna take about another year or two for him to come back. Just think of him as being like Sugar Ray Leonard and Margarito as Marvin Hagler. The fight will probably happen, just a couple of years too late; the outcome will probably be controversial and there won't be a rematch.

Sugar Q
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Aug 3 2008, 12:44 PM) [snapback]398761[/snapback]
First off whether he fights again or not PBF would never 'smash" Margarito. He may be able to pull out a decision with running and potshotting, but there is zero chance he would do the same number on Tony that he did on Gatti (an example of a fight where PBF did in fact smash his opponent)

Also, while you're right about what a good slick boxer can do to beat Margarito, being able to do it for 12 rounds under the kind of pressure he brings is a far from easy. I really don't think Cotto stupidly 'chose' to be brave. He was gassing and had no choice. Mosley and Floyd both have better stamina than Cotto does (Oscar does not) but still, I need to see it to believe that one of them can pull it off for 12 whole rounds against Margarito, who despite all his shortcomings is a flat-out beast at welterweight.
Actually Max said then and there that Williams was the only other welteweight with a claim to the title. I didn't notice a blank stare, and there certainly wasn't any silence.
Exactly. Just because Paul Williams happens to be willing to fight Margarito doesn't invalidate Tony's legitimate claims that others haven't been so willing the past few years.


If a fighter gets constantly hit and cant connect with his own shots it usually results in a smashing. You don't have to knock a fighter out to stop him. A cuts win from an accumulation of punches is highly likely. If Clottey can constantly hit Margarito and go 12 rounds, what would make anyone think Floyd couldn't. He aint nothing but one of the quickest, most accurate punchers in the game. A fighter that loses to Santos, (I'll give you the freakish nature of Williams) and gets constantly hit by Clottey will get beat down by PBF. I never mentioned Gatti so I dont know where that came from. Also, people are quick to say PBF ducks fighters well I hope all of you read the New York Daily News today. Not only did Goosen put an offer on the table for Williams/Margarito 2 but Bob Arum turned it down siting not wanting to deal with Williams promoter Al Haymon who just happens to be PBF's promoter also. Can't be mad at Margarito for wanting a DeLaHoya fight but Margarito should get the same criticism for shrugging off a Clottey rematch when being interviewed on HBO. Margarito and Clottey have unfinished business. Cotto's problem is his willingness to mix it up with fighters. That was his undoing. If he would've taken on a boxer mentality he would've won. Great fighters adapt. Sometimes you box, sometimes you bang.
MarzB
Does anyone here play chess?? Ok, if you do you all know that the average chess player is crippled when they lose their queen. It seems people LOVE just the "POWER GAME" and thats why I love boxing because it's the sweet science. the ring is 20 feet not a phone booth. IT seems that all people want are slugfest or they describe a jab and move style as running. I know for a fact the people (hence I call them "haters")that say that a) have never boxed or cool.gif know very little about boxing.

It's the same in baseball. People love the HOME RUN even though most home run hitters are strike out artist also (with one notable exception but he's people enemy #1) where as the singles, doubles hitter is much more consistent and if you wanted, you can put him ANYWHERE in the line up.

I'm getting at how people try to minimize Floyd's boxing style. I can think of two "boring" fights those being the Sosa, Baldomir the rest I found to be very interesting. I've always said if you want to see how Floyd looks against Cotto, check out the Brusseles fight. Brusseles is damn near identical to Cotto in style save for his power. He moves like Cotto, has that same high guard and the like. We saw how Floyd dismantled him but the only thing you'll hear about that fight is the "attendance".


And instead what does he do? He goes for a rematch against DLH and then is already talking about a final fight, a rematch against Hatton.

I will be the FIRST to CALL Floyd to the CARPET on this also. These fights (thank GOD they never happened) were discussed STRICTLY for MONEY reasons. You have NO ARGUMENT from me whatsoever on that but again those never happened (thank god).

I'm treating Floyd as he's retired. Similar to what Hype said and if I see him say three months down the line and he's in shape, I'll KNOW he'll be back down the line..

I do think that his hands are a big issue and the desire since he's been doing this since birth have wanned a bit. Namely the training camps and the pounding and toll it takes mentally and emotionally. Also while HE'LL never openly admit to it. I think the fact that he's NOT despite his skills a media darling made him say "FUK IT". After all nothing he can do could please them.


Oh the knock with the "Dancing with the Stars" mention above mixed with a punch and move comment, whatever. That (as I said on here when he was roasted for that appearance) got him 800,000 buys domestically. Not bad for a guy thats hated and don't say "he's not responsible for that buy rate" because those were the domestic buys. The UK buys were 1.2 million. I'm sure he had some BIG part in the domestic buys.
Byrd Man
once again, point out where I said shit about him being on Dancing with the Stars or that I attacked his fighting STYLE.

In fact, I repeatedly, REPEATEDLY have praised his abilities, his skills, and his ability to win fights. I'm not a big fan of the running that he did vs. DLH but it won him the fight, so... *shrugs*

I repeat my point that people who call others "haters" are usually upset because their favorite boxers aren't getting slobbered on.

When i first got on here I had people crawling out of the woodwork to shit on Chris Byrd. Saying that his wife was fucking him in the ass, and saying he was a steroid abuser and shit like that.

THAT is hating. When you just shit on someone without even remotely talking good about someone. When you just want to dismiss someone.

I've always stated that my problem with floyd was his arrogance and his disrespect. I don't like people who are like. Never have.

So once again, maybe you should leave me out of your "hater" accusations. Haters don't praise Floyd for his abilities, his skills, his abilities.
thehype
Just for the record, from what I hear, Floyd's definitely enjoying his time away from boxing and spending time with his kids.

Currently, he's nowhere near boxing shape so don't expect a comeback any time soon if you think he's just holding out for a big money fight.
MarzB
Byrdman stop taking this so personally. That post wasn't entirely directed towards you... I gotta go run before it rains..

I found this on another message board. Here is Max's comments in their entirety.


Not just the welter weight division but Margarito has sent shock waves that are still reverbating though out boxing. Lets start with Delahoya who has always looked a fearless champion he has always looked for the biggest baddest challenge he can find. After watching Margarito destroy Cotto, Delahoya is looking for the smallest challenge physically at least in philipino boxer Manny pacquiao, guy who came from fly weight upto light weight still not at a welter weight. Now Mayweather Jr. Floyd retired ostensibly his stated reason is that his legacy is secured and he has nothing left to prove. While this is true of the light weight classes at welter weight the preception is that you did not take on your toughest challenges and in fact ducked them.

Antonio Margarito after that performance against Miguel Cotto people are talking in barbershops, street corners, around the country and in Mexico, Floyd Mayweather not only doesnt want to fight margarito, he can't beat him. Floyd if you retire cause you feel your legacy is secure you need to unretire to secure if on the other hand if you retired because you interest in boxing has wained in that case stay retired cause no one with one foot in boxing and one foot out should take on the welter weight champion of the world
Byrd Man
And also, I understand his arrogance and disrespect is all an act. From everything I've heard he's a fantastic person outside of the ring, and that he's great with his kids.

And for that he gets utmost respect, but it's your public persona that people go off of, and he's proven he wants to be looked at as the asshole. As the bad guy, and along with that label is all the bullshit that comes with it.

Including the questioning your intentions on being the best fighter or making the most money. Skills wise, I think few would question that he's the best. Production wise, that's another story.
Byrd Man
QUOTE(MarzB @ Aug 3 2008, 04:43 PM) [snapback]398802[/snapback]
Byrdman stop taking this so personally. That post wasn't entirely directed towards you... I gotta go run before it rains..

I found this on another message board. Here is Max's comments in their entirety.


Not just the welter weight division but Margarito has sent shock waves that are still reverbating though out boxing. Lets start with Delahoya who has always looked a fearless champion he has always looked for the biggest baddest challenge he can find. After watching Margarito destroy Cotto, Delahoya is looking for the smallest challenge physically at least in philipino boxer Manny pacquiao, guy who came from fly weight upto light weight still not at a welter weight. Now Mayweather Jr. Floyd retired ostensibly his stated reason is that his legacy is secured and he has nothing left to prove. While this is true of the light weight classes at welter weight the preception is that you did not take on your toughest challenges and in fact ducked them.

Antonio Margarito after that performance against Miguel Cotto people are talking in barbershops, street corners, around the country and in Mexico, Floyd Mayweather not only doesnt want to fight margarito, he can't beat him. Floyd if you retire cause you feel your legacy is secure you need to unretire to secure if on the other hand if you retired because you interest in boxing has wained in that case stay retired cause no one with one foot in boxing and one foot out should take on the welter weight champion of the world


I agree with damn near everything he said. He didn't defame him at all. He simply stated that if he thinks that his legacy is secured, he's mistaken. There are a LOT of people who think that he is ducking Margo and Cotto and Mosely. Whether or not that's true, it's the PERCEPTION, and perception is a motherfucker to outrun.

like in Rocky 5 (I know, I know) where Tommy won the belt by beating Union Cane. He was never going to get respect, because A. Cane never beat Balboa to GET the title, and B. Tommy would always be known as "Rocky's Pupil".

That he could go on to have a fantastic career, but the fact that he never beat the champ was going to follow him no matter what he did.

Now, maybe Floyd can retire and not give a shit what anyone in boxing thinks. I don't know if that's likely, but it's always possible. Maybe he can just sit at home and swim in his Scrooge McDuck style swimming pool of money, and just laugh about how people thought he could lose to Cotto and Margo.

Maybe he can ignore all the constant talking about "did he really duck them?".

That would bother me, but I'm not him.

Best of luck if he stays retired though. He retires with his skills, his health and his brain intact. Can't hate on that
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Thegreatequalizer @ Aug 3 2008, 02:23 PM) [snapback]398771[/snapback]
yeah. i think part of this stems from the fact that usually mayweather's opponents are scared of him. gatti was clearly scared. de la hoya and hatton were both tentative and a little baffled, etc. castillo was one guy who wasn't mentally scared of mayweather. i think mayweather recognizes (as do others) that margarito isn't scared to fight him and has the size and power to hurt him. so i think mayweather would rather not deal with that.

Were Corrales or Castillo scared to fight him?
kidbazooka1
I give Kellerman porps for that one I like Max alot more now than in his Espn days.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(thehype @ Aug 3 2008, 04:40 PM) [snapback]398801[/snapback]
Just for the record, from what I hear, Floyd's definitely enjoying his time away from boxing and spending time with his kids.

Currently, he's nowhere near boxing shape so don't expect a comeback any time soon if you think he's just holding out for a big money fight.



I cant totally knock PBF for that .......actually a good move.....

but a quick win over marg would ease the pressure off his back......

If Marg didnt ruin Cotto, I still think he has the capabilty of fighting PBF....

The CEO
QUOTE(thehype @ Aug 3 2008, 04:40 PM) [snapback]398801[/snapback]
Just for the record, from what I hear, Floyd's definitely enjoying his time away from boxing and spending time with his kids.


This is what I assumed...Floyd has been involved with Boxing since he was a small child....this is a time in his life where he can FULLY enjoy the fruits of his labor and his children...

and I don't know about y'all....but I wouldn't work ever again if I won the lottery.

and FYI....Bill Gates stopped makin' them muhfuckin' computers.
HaydelHammer
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Aug 3 2008, 12:18 PM) [snapback]398756[/snapback]
Everyone knows Floyd isn't retired. Come on now.

Margarito is KNOWN as a guy who has been ducked many many times. Fighters don't want to fight him. There may be someone out there that is willing to fight him, but it's very few and far between, and rarely anyone who's got position near the top of the rankings.

Get off the anti-Max bandwagon and jump on the Stanwagon! lol



floyd is done! Get over it!

max needs to take zab nuts out of his mouth also. HE QUIT. ...saw three fingers my a$$...that bald eagle look toad wanted out and he got it.

Byrd Man
QUOTE(HaydelHammer @ Aug 3 2008, 07:28 PM) [snapback]398821[/snapback]
floyd is done! Get over it!

max needs to take zab nuts out of his mouth also. HE QUIT. ...saw three fingers my a$$...that bald eagle look toad wanted out and he got it.


I was gonna respond with intelligence but after reading your whole post, it's not even worth my time.

Just worth enough for this post. rolleyes.gif
BGv2.0
Fans of PBF had better hope like hell their man comes back and proves himself to be the best....because it's not even been six months into his retirement and you already have people realizing just how many ? he left in his division. And this was only after 1 fight.....as the years go by with other fighters matching up...it will only get worse.

You cannot claim to be the ATG while never matching up with deserving opposition that was there when you were. It's a simple fact.

It would be like Lewis claiming to be the ATG, yet never fighting Holyfield or Tyson.


Generally I think Max Kellerman is an ass.....but he hit the nail on the head last night and spoke nothing but the truth.




And Byrd man.....you need to take that Max pic down....it's so disturbing. That or make a little gif of it with a black and white hypno swirl in the background! lol

"You will come out of retirment.....you will fight Margarito and Cotto....this I command!"
Byrd Man
Can you make that .gif for me? PLEASE! that would be awesome!
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Aug 3 2008, 02:20 PM) [snapback]398770[/snapback]
Marz, although you might disagree, I'm not a hater on anyone.

I don't like Mayweather, based on his arrogance, and his disrespectful attitude towards other boxers. and the fact that he has refused to fight the best in his division, just dismissing them and saying "oh I'm better, I don't need to fight them"

Whether or not you think he would win against anyone else, is not the point. The point is that he refused to fight them. For all we know he would destroy any and every single person. but we don't know that. And until he mans up and fights those in his division instead of going outside his division to find people everyone knows he's got a massive advantage over, then he'll never be considered the greatest in everyone's eyes.

I've mentioned this before, but apparantly it bears repeating.

Can you imagine Ali refusing to fight Frazier or Foreman, and just saying "they're not worthy of fighting me. Instead I'm gonna fight a cruiserweight to come up and fight me because it'll make more money. And then retiring without fighting Foreman, Frazier or Liston and then saying "I'm the best ever"

Not to compare any of today's welters to any of those fighters, but the point is the same. You can't say you're the best if you haven't fought the best.

That's not hating that's just common sense. When he retired he had only fought ONE fighter in the top 5 or 6 WW's. And that was Zab Judah.

He didn't fight Williams, Cotto, Margarito, Mosely or Cintron. Oh but he's the best ever? Because he beat Gatti and Judah? And he beat DLH and Hatton?

He can move to different divisions and win all the belts he wants, but if he's perceived as ducking legitimate threats, in search of money fights instead, then....how can you not call him out on that?

To blindly follow this dude with no attention spent on his negatives is just ludicrous.

And I'm not hating on Mayweather. I've always said that he's a phenomenal fighter, got incredible skills blessed to him by God Himself. And odds are he would have wiped the floor with all of those fighters. But if he doesn't fight them, we'll never know. And if he never fights them, we can't call him the best.

That's just how I feel.



Excellent Post... Too bad it will fall on deaf ears or blind eyes...
hardhead
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Aug 4 2008, 12:45 AM) [snapback]398827[/snapback]
Can you make that .gif for me? PLEASE! that would be awesome!



that would be fucking hilarious!!!:lol:
neophyte7
Margarito will lose decisively before Mayweather gets back into the mix... his reflexes will betray him because of his inferior to boxing face fighting style... He took some hellacious shots from Cotto and he is bound to start showing the ill affects of his style... The destiny of a slugger---
Warlord
I hate Mayweather's guts, but he'd outclass Margarito, so let's stop mucking about here. It's a waste of time for Floyd to come out of retirement to fight someone like Antontio Margarito, not unless he (Antonio) suddenly starts generating Oscar-like paydays for his opponents.
Warlord
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 4 2008, 01:20 AM) [snapback]398861[/snapback]
Agreed. I despise Mayweather but he would make Margarito look foolish missing the whole night. Still a fight I want to happen though as I don't like to just concede victory and I don't want another instance of RJJ-Darius or something like that where people still go on about the fight not happening a decade later.
I just want to get it done with and that's it. I still think Mayweather beats him very, very easily though.

I'd prefer Floyd to just stay retired. I can't stand watching him fight, and I can't stand listening to him talk. He'd spend 6 months telling me how he was going to PUNISH Antonio Margarito, about it being "easy work", blah blah blah. Whatever. That shit is old, and no one but idiots buy that drivel and line the man's pockets with PPV revenue.

The longer Floyd stays retired the more hits his "legacy" is going to take. Fine by me. It'll be a nice cup of "fuck you" for him and his over-zealous supporters, who like to rank him right up there with Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammad Ali. Ridiculous.
Byrd Man
Seems that the people have spoken....

caneman
It's pitiful that Warlord was never made part of TEAM FIGHTHYPE & I say we should fix that right away members! drinks.gif
buford54
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 4 2008, 02:17 AM) [snapback]398860[/snapback]
I hate Mayweather's guts, but he'd outclass Margarito, so let's stop mucking about here. It's a waste of time for Floyd to come out of retirement to fight someone like Antontio Margarito, not unless he (Antonio) suddenly starts generating Oscar-like paydays for his opponents.


Ditto. That's it. Floyd would make him look like a one dimensional lumberjack.
That said, I hate that Floyd gets a pass because on paper he would win. Why not just do medical tests on all fighters reflexes, fast twitch muscle content and their vision and then they never have to fight...we can just rank them on paper.
Or, better yet...let's just have them fight on Wii, so nobody gets hurt.

Another problem is that Paul Williams would beat Margarito again before FLoyd got the chance to comeback.

Floyd did make it to where he's at while avoiding some tough fights...but the fact is, if you are motivated by money, and you make 20 million for 1 fight, why go back and take a tough fight for 4 million? He's not motivated by a challenge, he's motivated by money.

I agree w/ Max. If Floyd retired because he thinks he's an ATG, then he has some proving to do.
If he has no more passion for a challenge (which I don't think he has) then he needs to stay retired.
caneman
QUOTE(buford54 @ Aug 4 2008, 09:30 AM) [snapback]398887[/snapback]
Ditto. That's it. Floyd would make him look like a one dimensional lumberjack.
That said, I hate that Floyd gets a pass because on paper he would win. Why not just do medical tests on all fighters reflexes, fast twitch muscle content and their vision and then they never have to fight...we can just rank them on paper.
Or, better yet...let's just have them fight on Wii, so nobody gets hurt.

Another problem is that Paul Williams would beat Margarito again before FLoyd got the chance to comeback.

Floyd did make it to where he's at while avoiding some tough fights...but the fact is, if you are motivated by money, and you make 20 million for 1 fight, why go back and take a tough fight for 4 million? He's not motivated by a challenge, he's motivated by money.

I agree w/ Max. If Floyd retired because he thinks he's an ATG, then he has some proving to do.
If he has no more passion for a challenge (which I don't think he has) then he needs to stay retired.



The funny part about this whole Margarito/PBF & the hate wagons/huggers thing is that all anyone wanted to do is see the fight & $8 million was a cool offer IF it would be that easy anyhow. I'll never like a guy who claims to be the best of all time yet doesn't even fight the best in his division...SORRY! / THREAD
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 3 2008, 06:26 PM) [snapback]398815[/snapback]
Were Corrales or Castillo scared to fight him?


i mentioned castillo in my post. corrales (rip) was too stupid to be afraid.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(caneman @ Aug 4 2008, 08:37 AM) [snapback]398888[/snapback]
The funny part about this whole Margarito/PBF & the hate wagons/huggers thing is that all anyone wanted to do is see the fight

EXACTLY.

Hard to believe it's really that simple.
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