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Full Version: ZAB JUDAH: A CAREER MARRED BY MISMANAGEMENT
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Vodoo
Everyone knows Judah is an immature hot head who constantly makes excuses and loses big fights. The question is, are all these loses really his fault? I used to think yes, but I now see Judah differently. He's actually a waste of talent who didn't waste his talent. His management team did when they let him move to 140lbs too early and 147lbs at all. After his jump to welter, Judah's maturity peaked with the Spinks win. Right after that he went right into fighting guys who were much bigger, stronger and more durable than he was. This all put more emphasis on his main weakness, a lack of durability. What would have happened if that maturity happened at 135lbs and didn't precede a string of losses? Is it Judah's fault he couldn't chop down guys twice his size in a division he had no business in? I say no. The guy was a very talented fighter but he was not superman. Judah comes into a 147lb fight against a guy of Clottey's toughness and strength caliber weighing in at a mere 143lbs. He's consistently at a disadvantage at the opening bell.

In truth Judah's career possibly could have been one of much greater succeess had he stayed at 135 for an extended period of time. It's a weight I'm sure he wouldn't have had to kill himself to make. Fighter's like Coralles and Castillo would have pushed him to the limit and maybe he loses those fights but who knows, because had he been there still winning maybe his confidence gets him through those guys (although I doubt it more so with Castillo than with Coralles seeing as how Castillo was a welter campaigning as a lightweight.) Eventually he could have made the move to 140 later in his career but I see absolutely no reason he ever should have moved to 147. I criticized that move from day one when it was first announced that he was doing so. Other guys like Floyd and Cotto who both have wins over Judah both filled out better at 147 than he did or ever will and therefore take punishment better than him at that weight.

Still, who are we to say Judah isn't tough enough? We laugh at the thought of him facing a guy like Margarito. The fact is, if you look at it, Judah is one of the few boxer's today way in over his head and constantly getting criticized about his failures. He is in my opinion a lightweight campaigning at welterweight and his losses are coming as expected. His career has been completely mismanaged as he's been making low purses the last 2 or 3 years. I'm not saying that Judah didn't have his flaws and wouldn't have lost ever, but at 135 his deficiencies are less evident and he gets away with a lot more stuff all while fighting guys on a more level playing field. Boxing has weight classes but they must be used to a fighter's advantage, "team Judah" uses it to their disadvantage.

If Judah is all style and no substance, yet holds his own at 147, how well would he have done at a more fair playing field of 135? How does Judah-who hasn't had his confidence shattered by loses and beatings-do against the likes of Barera, Juan Manuel Marquez, Pacquaio? I don't know, but I do know this, all those fights would have better for us and better for Judah because he wouldn't have lost because he was so much smaller. He'd have gotten a fair shake and we could have more fairly judged his place in the boxing world while better enjoying the talent that had so many excited when he first came on the scene. A talent that too often gets missed because it's getting smothered by guys who just walk through it. So go ahead and criticize Judah for mentally caving against Floyd, giving up against Cotto, or lying to quit against Clottey, but first ask how well you think you'd do if you were fighting guys 2 weight classes higher than you, maybe then you can appreciate and understand that Judah's biggest failure is following his management team.

Vodoo
thehype
Well said.

Great post.

Hell...even if he would've just stayed at 140, I think he would have been just fine. Chasing after the money and yet not really getting it at welterweight...that was a poor, poor decision. Now he's being sucked dry of anything he has left by putting him in with guys like Cotto, Clottey and Margarito. DEAR LORD I think that might be a wrap for him if they actually do get him that Margarito fight. Even now, despite the punishment he's already taken, I think he's still got enough left in the tank to really make some noise at 140...possibly evening ruling the division for a period of time. It's sad story in boxing, that's for sure.

Good piece Vodoo.
EpTXCHAMP
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate to say it but zabs team is gonna be dumb enough to take the margarito fight! Arum suckers this poor guy by giving him key fights" and sum nice change but Arum deep down arum dont give a damn if zab gets beat down he knows his fighters are gonna win so he'll use zabs name as much as possible. Seriously Arum has used zab as a stepping stone for cotto.clottey and now margarito! a shame thumbsdown_anim.gif

wait for hatton paulie winner. maybe paulie pulls off the win and u can have zab vs paulie in the garden!
WolfishPromistah
Judah walks seemingly fresh wit' that "coulda-been vibe" here at FightHype, me thinks.
So right you are, TOO, Vodoo...and thank you. I feel bad for that kid 'cause he has been unlucky, and all while he also possesses what so often has made fans feel is so much undeniably great potential. Like I've always said, though -- I always suspected it's his "Team loyalty (for boxing, most greatly familial, in my opinion)" that's gotten him fawkd up and off track so. Moreover, I've wondered what difference Zab would likely make to himself, even now, were he to just get another team. I mean, is it too late for Judah to take such a vital step for the appropriate turn around in his career?
STEVENSKI
No sympathy from me. Judah made his choices & has to live with them. I never had a high opinion of him as a fighter. He could have been a good fighter but he & he alone chose not to focus on fighting & fighting at his optimum weight. I don't blame his team he is the boss he calls the shots.

If PBF fought Pavlik & got beat would it be his fault of his teams "Bad advice"?. Lets be real Judah is a moron & he employs morons so when you get moronic decisions why be suprised.


thehype
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 3 2008, 09:52 PM) [snapback]398831[/snapback]
No sympathy from me. Judah made his choices & has to live with them. I never had a high opinion of him as a fighter. He could have been a good fighter but he & he alone chose not to focus on fighting & fighting at his optimum weight. I don't blame his team he is the boss he calls the shots.

If PBF fought Pavlik & got beat would it be his fault of his teams "Bad advice"?. Lets be real Judah is a moron & he employs morons so when you get moronic decisions why be suprised.


Ouch.

Touche'.

Good counter shot landed right there.

The round is up for grabs.

laugh.gif
Imperius3
I agree and disagree. In retrospect, yeah, the move up to 147 was fruitless. But, a lot of people gave him a chance against Mayweather and Cotto. He was a live underdog then. By now though, he should be back down to 140. There was no point in getting beat up by Clottey, and there is certainly no point in getting thrashed by Margarito.
D-MARV
Zab could have been Great... sad.gif
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 4 2008, 04:15 AM) [snapback]398846[/snapback]
Zab could have been Great... sad.gif



Could have, would have, should have. All the talent in the world is useless if you cannot focus for 48 minutes especially when you get a 1 minute break out of every 3 to regather your composure. Personally I think he is stupid rather than lazy & one of his biggest faults is he believes his own bullshit. He never was a world beater & lost every big fight he had bar the rematch against Spinks which shows he is either unskilled & lazy (clearly not) or just thick as a brick.

You don't by any chance have a soft spot for Zaheer Raheem do you?
dbdbdb
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 4 2008, 01:02 AM) [snapback]398855[/snapback]
Could have, would have, should have. All the talent in the world is useless if you cannot focus for 48 minutes especially when you get a 1 minute break out of every 3 to regather your composure. Personally I think he is stupid rather than lazy & one of his biggest faults is he believes his own bullshit. He never was a world beater & lost every big fight he had bar the rematch against Spinks which shows he is either unskilled & lazy (clearly not) or just thick as a brick.

You don't by any chance have a soft spot for Zaheer Raheem do you?


I agree with stevenski,

No sympathy whatsoever, Judah SHOULD be the one calling the shots but he isn't. Joel & King are in the mix making decisions for Zab and anytime a fighter loses control of his team he loses control of his destiny.

Zab was in position to be a grest one at 140lbs, but someone put it in his head that he could compete and dominate the 147lb division {Probally Joel}. And that was the beginning of the end. Sure Zab had RAW talent, but it takes maturity & mental development to properlly utilize that talent. And all Zab had was the talent ........ His team can be blamed for not getting him ontrack mentally but that is all. His father's immaturity is evident and on display at every fight, so its not difficult to see where the arrogance and hard-headedness comes from.

Zab has reached a point of no return and a point of diminishing returns at the same time. Every outing further exaserbates his mental condition and each beating he takes further diminishes any possibility of recovery.

He is now being put in the lion's den time after time starting with Cotto, then Clotty and soon to be Margarito. You are looking at a three strike episode that will without a doubt finish Zab's career and destroy his already impaired state of mind.

Zab will be encourged to take a fight with Margarito by his foolish father & team. They will dangle the imaginary carrot in front of Zab to make him believe he has a chance. And he will follow that carrot to his ultimate demise. Because if you think Cotto opened up a can of Whip-ass on Zab, you ain't seen nothing compared to the warehouse of whip-ass margarito is going to bring forth.

It is another sad story in boxing, where the fighter will be left without financial stability when they had to stop fighting. But more importantly this former fighter will be left emotionally, and mentally destroyed. And he will have no one to blame but himself, for not standing up to his father and his so-called team to call his own shots.

I was always taught, if you're going to fail, let it be by your own hand, not anothers.

No one probally taught Zab that lesson in life.
BigG
dbdbdb, Your 100 % correct.
Imperius3
To be fair, I'm sure Zab has always had the final say in all of the decisions. I do believe his team should be guiding him better though.

Now, the Cotto fight was a reasonable fight to take. Everyone knew he had a chance, and a lot of people favored him to win. However, by now he should be at 140. Fighting Clottey wasn't a good move and neither will be fighting Margarito.

Then again, all the big money fights are at 147, and maybe that is all Zab really cares about.
D-MARV
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 4 2008, 01:02 AM) [snapback]398855[/snapback]
Could have, would have, should have. All the talent in the world is useless if you cannot focus for 48 minutes especially when you get a 1 minute break out of every 3 to regather your composure. Personally I think he is stupid rather than lazy & one of his biggest faults is he believes his own bullshit. He never was a world beater & lost every big fight he had bar the rematch against Spinks which shows he is either unskilled & lazy (clearly not) or just thick as a brick.

You don't by any chance have a soft spot for Zaheer Raheem do you?

I dont have a Soft spot for Raheem or Zab!!! I like both fighters but , in no way, do I feel bad for them!

I say Zab could have been great because of his Natrual ability! He lacks mental strength and that has always been his downfall. I think Zab has made some critical errors in his career path but he was also surrounded by a bunch of dumbasses as well! Maybe if he had someone in his corner like Al Heyman or somebody that could have said ,"Hey Zab! you should do this rather than that!" then his career would have been different. BUt at the end of the day, it was/is his career and he chooses his own path. So Ultimately, the blame is on him!
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 4 2008, 08:33 PM) [snapback]398949[/snapback]
I dont have a Soft spot for Raheem or Zab!!! I like both fighters but , in no way, do I feel bad for them!



That was more a dig at Big G for his love of Raheem.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Aug 4 2008, 02:42 PM) [snapback]398934[/snapback]
To be fair, I'm sure Zab has always had the final say in all of the decisions.


Imperius3,

Here is why I don't think his decisions are totally his own and may have been influenced. IMHO the worst person to have as your full-time trainer is your father. That image of FATHER is always a dominate one, especially if your father has been your only trainer. And Zab sometimes shows disagreement with Joel during fights, but Joel seems to have the final say.

So, its a tough task to stand up to your dad in that situation and many others ....... That's why at best your father should be Co-trainer, but not the pointman.

rusty_trombone
I still think this is all traced back to one single moment in time, when he did the chicken dance after Kostya knocked him down. That was the turning point, if he wins that fight, I think his career and even his mentality would have been different.
Mean Mister Mustard
I think some people have illusions about Zab and his potential based on his athleticism. Sure he's fast and can whack. But apart from all the reasons outlined by you guys there's 2 missing:His lack of world class defense. He always relied on his speed to bail him out against lesser fighters but against top notch guys he was very hittable. His lack of inside game also hindered his performances.

So let's see, he loses focus, he has no plan A or B in most of his fights ( he did seem to have a plan A in the Spinks rematch, Mayweather fight and Cotto fight but when the other guys made changes he was a sitting duck), lack of proper defense and no inside game. But because he's fast handed and athletic he gave us the impression he was destined for greatness. Facty of the matter is he lacks the basic fundementals to be an ATG, and his boxing IQ doesn't qualify him tobe great.

He'll be back though, spring an upset here, lose a fight there. It's a level which most guys don't reach so it's not all that bad.
dbdbdb
I was shocked to see this on boxingrec. {I know its not always reliable, but it is there}

2008-11-01 Antonio Margarito vs Zab Judah
D-MARV
They also have Margarito penciled in to fight 2 weeks later!!! LOL
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 5 2008, 01:44 AM) [snapback]399005[/snapback]
They also have Margarito penciled in to fight 2 weeks later!!! LOL


Margs is a throwback fighter. Of course he will fight 2 weeks after sparring with Judah.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 5 2008, 12:09 AM) [snapback]398991[/snapback]
I still think this is all traced back to one single moment in time, when he did the chicken dance after Kostya knocked him down. That was the turning point, if he wins that fight, I think his career and even his mentality would have been different.



He never could have won that fight. No slick fighter ever beat Tszyu or even came close to doing so.
The CEO
I have to agree...I think his big loss to Tszyu was a Mr. Destiny type moment....
King Eugene
I agree and disagree with most of everybody points.

1. I think he was miss guided and heavily influenced

2. Everybody cant be David against Goliath(knocking off the biggest dude on the block makes you the man but that dont mean every little guy can do it can do it.). He should have stayed down at lightweight and Jr. WW.

3. I mean he did have to have some kind of final say in all of his fights. I guess it was that hood mentality in him as to not wanting to back down from everybody. Theres sometimes when you got to swallow your pride and just be smart.

4. Going after the big money comes with a big price...like getting yo ass knocked out!

So yes it had part to do with mismanagement and part to do with him thinking he could beat anybody anywhere and not having all of the skills and talent to do it. I dont have pitty for him but I just wish HE and his camp would have made better decisions and somebody would have taught him some discipline!
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