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Landiz_Tha Don
Margarito vs Williams II

Who would win in a rematch??? your thoughts.

I THINK MARGARITO WILL WIN BY KO OR TKO IN 10-12 RDS. MARGARITO IS AN IMPROVED FIGHTER. HE USES HIS REACH, HE USES HIS JAB, HE MASTERED HIS BODY SHOTS, HE THROWS STRAIGHT SHOTS, AND HE WILL START FASTER AND PUT PRESSURE FROM THE BEGINNING. WILLIAMS HASNT IMPROVED NOTHING, HE IS STILL THE SAME WILLIAMS SINCE HE FOUGHT MARGARITO 1 YEAR AGO.

Landiz_Tha Don

Peace!
Fitz
I think it would be pretty much a similar fight to the first. Close, tough and competitive fight, but Williams just outclasses him.

Don't agree about Margarito being an improved or better fighter. It's the same guy to me.
Landiz_Tha Don
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 6 2008, 09:32 PM) [snapback]399430[/snapback]
I think it would be pretty much a similar fight to the first. Close, tough and competitive fight, but Williams just outclasses him.

Don't agree about Margarito being an improved or better fighter. It's the same guy to me.


IT WAS A CLOSE UNANIMOUS DECISION AND MARGARITO CLEARLY GAVE THE FIRST ROUNDS AWAY BECAUSE HE STARTED TOO SLOW. NOW HE'S QUICKER WITH HIS LEGS AND HE IS FASTER WITH HIS PUNCHES.

KO OR TKO BY 10-12 RDS BY THE "TJ TORNADO"

Landiz_Tha Don

Peace!
STEVENSKI
I'd take Margarito in this. Close competitive & I think Margs edges it this time if he just started faster.
hardhead
I think I might still take Williams in the rematch because he's felt Margarito and his shots and knows what he brings to the table. He took some tremendous shots and was there for 12 rounds, mixing it up, boxing and standing his ground when he needed to. I had it close with Williams winning a decision(115-113). I thought Williams not only won most of the first 6 rounds but a couple in the championship rounds that were the key to winning the fight(9th and the 12th). For it being his first shot at the title he showed some grit and heart late in that fight when Margarito was coming on strong. I also think Williams is just as strong as Margarito as both guys are HUGE Welters, so I don't see Margarito enjoying the strength advantage he had over Cotto, or would have with some of the more smaller welters out there. That's one reason I don't see it being that easy for him to just walk Williams down aside from the fact that Williams is more a natural boxer then Cotto and is more comfortable on the move.

Still the fight can easily go the other way. This is definitely the fight I anticipate the most at welter.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 7 2008, 12:32 AM) [snapback]399430[/snapback]
I think it would be pretty much a similar fight to the first. Close, tough and competitive fight, but Williams just outclasses him.

Don't agree about Margarito being an improved or better fighter. It's the same guy to me.



I agree with u Fitz... I think Williams has his number. I think Tony will run into similar issues the second time around. he started late for a reason folks. he couldnt get past Williams fast punches and long reach. Williams threw so many punches those first few rounds, that when he finally took a breather, margarito jumped on him. Once Williams got his second wind, he resumed the long range attack.
King Eugene
I think it will be close again but I'm going with Williams on this one. Like Mr Factor said I feel he has Margarito's number. I haven't seen much improvement at all. I think he is still the same fighter but just fought lesser opposition. And as far as Cotto, that was just a bad match up for him. I kind of seen that coming but brushed it off. It will be one hell of a fight that goes down to the wire, I see no knockout but a lot vicious shots being delivered. I take Williams just like last time.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Yes Marg will start faster but people also forget that Williams started a little faster in his last outing against Quintana.

I think they both learned valuable leassons from their last respective defeats.

I'm with Fitz on this one, I don't think Margarito has changed, Cotto was just made to order that's all.

It's the boring old adage 'styles make fights' and I like Williams in this match-up.

I hope they do fight but I'd like Tony to take an easy money tune-up first, I think he's earned it.

I think Williams is the one guy I'd pick over PBF, but that's another thread.....
Fitz
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Aug 7 2008, 09:56 PM) [snapback]399460[/snapback]
Yes Marg will start faster but people also forget that Williams started a little faster in his last outing against Quintana.

I think they both learned valuable leassons from their last respective defeats.

I'm with Fitz on this one, I don't think Margarito has changed, Cotto was just made to order that's all.

It's the boring old adage 'styles make fights' and I like Williams in this match-up.

I hope they do fight but I'd like Tony to take an easy money tune-up first, I think he's earned it.

I think Williams is the one guy I'd pick over PBF, but that's another thread.....


Pretty much. I also agree about Williams being a guy to pick over Floyd. He is one of the few that I think will give him major problems, but yeah that's another thread.
BrutalBodyShots
This is the type of rematch that I'd bet the draw on at 17-1 odds all day long. Essentially a given that it goes the distance and that each guy wins approximately 6 rounds.

If Margarito goes to work early, which is should given the result of their last meeting, he should be able to win a round or two more than the original meaning he can win the fight. The sooner he starts landing those body shots the sooner Williams will slow down, and that'll make it tougher for Williams to win any of the later rounds like he did the first time. You can't count Margarito out due to his chin and stamina. Textbook wise of course, Williams should win a close decision. By the end of round 4 you'll know who's going to win the fight. If Margarito wins 2 or more of the first 4 rounds, he's going to take it. If he only wins a round or doesn't win any, it'll be Williams again.



The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 7 2008, 07:57 AM) [snapback]399462[/snapback]
Pretty much. I also agree about Williams being a guy to pick over Floyd. He is one of the few that I think will give him major problems, but yeah that's another thread.


Sorry Fitz but I can't resist. Why do you think Williams has a shot?

I think it's because he's the one guy who can live with Floyd on the outside.

I don't think this is a fight where Floyd has the option of sitting on the outside and pot shoting himself to a safety first points victory......thus PBF would be forced to engage Williams and I don't think he feels comfortable engaging anyone since he's gone north of 140 pounds.

Hell he fought Carlos Baldomir as though he was in the ring with Carlos Monzon!

So.......if forced to engage I think he loses that battle as well.

'The Punisher' has in my opinion the reach and the speed (and the technique) to give PBF his 1st loss (although I think it would probably be a pretty boring fight).

Let me know what you like in regards to PW's chances.
rusty_trombone
Wiliams better win this shit, otherwise they'll be another hate wagon. I don't see why this fight will be any different than the first, and I think the one who has gotten better is Williams.
Big Slim Sweet
I'd like to see both guys add to their resumes a little before rematching. This is the best fight in the division and should be treated as such. Let them both add another quality name or two and - particluarly in Williams' case - increase their visibility with the boxing public.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Aug 7 2008, 11:18 AM) [snapback]399479[/snapback]
I'd like to see both guys add to their resumes a little before rematching. This is the best fight in the division and should be treated as such. Let them both add another quality name or two and - particluarly in Williams' case - increase their visibility with the boxing public.


Williams can't afford another loss though to a Quintana type guy in the meantime. That would take the luster out of a Williams-Margarito rematch.

rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Aug 7 2008, 11:18 AM) [snapback]399479[/snapback]
I'd like to see both guys add to their resumes a little before rematching. This is the best fight in the division and should be treated as such. Let them both add another quality name or two and - particluarly in Williams' case - increase their visibility with the boxing public.

I'm pretty sure I want to see Margarito lose as soon as possible. so the sooner, the better
D-MARV
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 7 2008, 11:44 AM) [snapback]399481[/snapback]
I'm pretty sure I want to see Margarito lose as soon as possible. so the sooner, the better

I AGREE!

get him in there with Clottey or Williams... I'll take Clottey and Williams over Margarito by razor thin UD
D-MARV
By the way...
Does anyone know where I can find Williams-Margarito 1! They use to have it on You Tube but someone pulled it off.
The CEO
I agree with Fitz, Factor, and King....

The Punisher has The Torrance Tomato's number.
Fitz
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Aug 8 2008, 12:13 AM) [snapback]399467[/snapback]
Sorry Fitz but I can't resist. Why do you think Williams has a shot?

I think it's because he's the one guy who can live with Floyd on the outside.

I don't think this is a fight where Floyd has the option of sitting on the outside and pot shoting himself to a safety first points victory......thus PBF would be forced to engage Williams and I don't think he feels comfortable engaging anyone since he's gone north of 140 pounds.

Hell he fought Carlos Baldomir as though he was in the ring with Carlos Monzon!

So.......if forced to engage I think he loses that battle as well.

'The Punisher' has in my opinion the reach and the speed (and the technique) to give PBF his 1st loss (although I think it would probably be a pretty boring fight).

Let me know what you like in regards to PW's chances.


Well looking at the Mayweather-Judah fight and seeing Mayweather have some trouble with the fresh, quick south paw who was punching. I can't help but think another quick southpaw may give Mayweather those same problems. Except this one is bigger, stronger, punches a whole lot more and fights 12 rounds easily.
Also like you mentioned, Mayweather wouldn't have that luxury of sitting back and trying to potshot or counter a way to a victory. Williams has such a high workrate, he will force Mayweather to punch. I think Williams will be too big to get beaten badly by Mayweather on the outside and think Mayweather will have to come inside to do enough. I just don't see it. I also don't think Mayweather will get Williams to respect him. To be able to go 12 very hard fought rounds with Margarito, you gotta be a pretty tough guy.
BigG
Williams is a very bad style matchup for Margrito. Quicker, flashier, BIGGER, and very active..Williams by another close UD. IMHO he's the only one that beats Margarito 154-below

Fitz, Floyd could hit Williams by quick lead right hands then get out of the way all night...Similar to what Quintana did the first time..but it would be a tough fight for BOTH fighters...
Fitz
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 8 2008, 02:05 AM) [snapback]399489[/snapback]
Williams is a very bad style matchup for Margrito. Quicker, flashier, BIGGER, and very active..Williams by another close UD. IMHO he's the only one that beats Margarito 154-below

Fitz, Floyd could hit Williams by quick lead right hands then get out of the way all night...Similar to what Quintana did the first time..but it would be a tough fight for BOTH fighters...


But that's the thing, I think Williams was getting caught by the punches your describing because Williams had trouble with southpaws. I didn't see the Mitchell fight, but I heard Mitchell was tagging him as well. I think it was more of a case of southpaws for Williams.
BigG
Could be...but I think Williams is a pretty hittable fighter...especially against someone with fast hands.

I personally think PWill can beat Floyd..but it would be a close, ugly fight..he would have a hard time solving the puzzle..
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 7 2008, 09:42 AM) [snapback]399471[/snapback]
Wiliams better win this shit, otherwise they'll be another hate wagon. I don't see why this fight will be any different than the first, and I think the one who has gotten better is Williams.

If Shitarito ducks Williams then please feel free to add my name to the Tony hate wagon. Thank you.
BoxingStill#1
This is great,....yea sure lets keep talking about two guys who dont even belong in the welterwieght divsion....

Id love to see them meet......just @ Jr middle wieght....shit maybe even higher!
buford54
Williams over Margarito.
Margarito's strength is his stamina and punch output.
Williams takes away his output and can go 12 full rounds himself.
kidbazooka1
One of the things that hurt Margarito i nthe first fight was that he started too slow he was hurting Williams in the last couple of rds but just ran out of time.

I see Margarito starting faster this time and taking a well deserved UD.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 7 2008, 01:21 PM) [snapback]399496[/snapback]
If Shitarito ducks Williams then please feel free to add my name to the Tony hate wagon. Thank you.

you just called him shitarito, don't you think i should add your name now anyway
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 7 2008, 01:16 PM) [snapback]399502[/snapback]
you just called him shitarito, don't you think i should add your name now anyway

If he fights Williams, de la Hoya, Mosley, or Mayweather in his next fight then no. Anyone other than those four names then yes....
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 7 2008, 02:15 PM) [snapback]399509[/snapback]
If he fights Williams, de la Hoya, Mosley, or Mayweather in his next fight then no. Anyone other than those four names then yes....

What about Clottey? I'm sure Margarito would love to fight DLH, Shane or Floyd next. It certainly won't be his decision not to.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Aug 7 2008, 02:18 PM) [snapback]399511[/snapback]
What about Clottey? I'm sure Margarito would love to fight DLH, Shane or Floyd next. It certainly won't be his decision not to.

Clottey is injued, which is why he wasn't on my list.
Jack 1000
I would say Williams wins the rematch. He has a different style than Cotto and his jab and reach would make it hard to penetrate his defense. There is always the possibility that Antonio could smother Paul's style in another close fight similar to Quintana I. But if Williams won before using a very good strategy, I am confident he could do it again. Paul Williams is the closest boxer in style to Mayweather, and because of that style can trouble any welterweight-Jr. middleweight at any given time.

Jack
Big Slim Sweet
I have to say, a lot of people are acting like the first fight was a whitewash. It wasn't, it was a damn close fight, and Margarito won the majority of the late rounds. I think a rematch is a toss-up.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Aug 7 2008, 05:42 PM) [snapback]399499[/snapback]
This is great,....yea sure lets keep talking about two guys who dont even belong in the welterwieght divsion....

Id love to see them meet......just @ Jr middle wieght....shit maybe even higher!



How do you mean don't belong? Do they make 147 at the weigh ins? If that is teh case then they can fight as welters you fuckin idiot. Now if they had same day weigh ins.............................
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 7 2008, 07:01 PM) [snapback]399532[/snapback]
How do you mean don't belong? Do they make 147 at the weigh ins? If that is teh case then they can fight as welters you fuckin idiot. Now if they had same day weigh ins.............................


LOL Teh case, Fitz's alter ego strikes again.

Margarito turned the afterburners in the last rounds against Williams and by the 12th he didn't appear to have much left. So if he starts out faster the second time around won't he tire earlier?
BigG
I cant remember but didn't Williams win the 12th clearly? I remember my scorecard for the fight was 7-4-1 for PWill
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 7 2008, 07:01 PM) [snapback]399532[/snapback]
How do you mean don't belong? Do they make 147 at the weigh ins? If that is teh case then they can fight as welters you fuckin idiot. Now if they had same day weigh ins.............................



You knew exactly what the fuck I meant......and just because someone can make weight deosnt mean they belong in that division.....

They may naturally belong somewhere else.....I hope you were just "acting" stupid......
Mean Mister Mustard
So does Williams have an opponent lined up? I wouldn't mond seeing him fight Quintana again down the road. Sure he blew him out in the 1st, but I would like to see whether he can still be outboxed.
hardhead
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 7 2008, 11:20 PM) [snapback]399536[/snapback]
I cant remember but didn't Williams win the 12th clearly? I remember my scorecard for the fight was 7-4-1 for PWill



I had him winning the 12th pretty clearly and that was the round that sealed the win, because on my card if Margarito wins it it ends in a draw. I had Williams winning 1-3, 5,6, 9, 12. Of those rounds Williams won I thought the 3rd and 6th were close. Margarito won rounds 4, 7, 8, 10 11. With the 7th close. Williams had a big round in the 9th while Margarito had his biggest round of the fight in the 11th.



WolfishPromistah
“just because someone can make weight deosnt mean they belong in that division.....

They may naturally belong somewhere else.....I hope you were just "acting" stupid......”



What determines whether someone “belongs in a division,” besides the question of whether he/she is comfortable or NOT at that targeted weight and able to make it to fight? It seems you’re implying that walk-around weight is supposedly automatically best to fight at, when that – and close to it -- may not be the case at all.



Now, if you’re talking about your feeling it’s hard to let a person get a pass for coming in after the weigh-in all rehydrated up to twenty pounds and junk, I’d say we agree. The same day weigh-in has been something I have joined in crying for for quite some time. If you aren’t saying something around those lines, however, I ask that you clue me in on what you’re getting at…please. Thanks.



About this match up, I love that Williams, like Margarito, has shown the ability to improve, making fine adjustments that indicate he too is able to change his game up after a loss, especially when it was against another who’d beaten him previously. Before I saw Williams do that, I thought Margarito might actually be able to simply come back a bit faster and possibly end things earlier in a rematch, although I chose instead to give a bit more consideration to what I’d seen from both in that fight, in addition to what they've done since fighting each other. Noted immediately is how they’ve both shown they can grow from mistakes made previously. What we don’t know still, however, is how Tony will react if he starts out faster and finds that Paul can do so as well, setting an explosive pace that will ONLY really have them both fighting faster than the first time, nevertheless resulting in the same type result -- a loss for The Tijuana Tornado -- something to think about, I imagine.



Now I’m not saying Tony cannot win it, but I just don’t know if I can feel so confident he necessarily has it on lockdown a second time ‘round…just ‘cause he says he’ll come in with a bit more speed up front. 'Far as that goes, Paul can too (shrugs), with the same advantages he had the first time in: reach, speed, high-output punching, stamina, “some” odd angle punching – like Tony’s, and the willingness to fight at points with combinations, while possessing a good chin himself. Along with the other things I’ve mentioned, of course, Paul is also a younger buck too, yet it seems he’s got us talking about him because of a major thing to be pointed out: His EFFECTIVE ability that put the others on notice that he can sling it wit’ a hard-nosed, blue-collar vet whom others (big names, at that) weren’t stepping up to see, for whatever their reason(s). In other words, that young boy, P-Will, got some commendable skills that Tony's gon' give more respect to than his mouth may have all to believe (smile).

JLUVBABY
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Aug 7 2008, 09:13 AM) [snapback]399467[/snapback]
Sorry Fitz but I can't resist. Why do you think Williams has a shot?

I think it's because he's the one guy who can live with Floyd on the outside.

I don't think this is a fight where Floyd has the option of sitting on the outside and pot shoting himself to a safety first points victory......thus PBF would be forced to engage Williams and I don't think he feels comfortable engaging anyone since he's gone north of 140 pounds.

Hell he fought Carlos Baldomir as though he was in the ring with Carlos Monzon!

So.......if forced to engage I think he loses that battle as well.

'The Punisher' has in my opinion the reach and the speed (and the technique) to give PBF his 1st loss (although I think it would probably be a pretty boring fight).

Let me know what you like in regards to PW's chances.



i've always thought williams had a great chance against the style of mayweather... when williams is on he is a helluva fighter... he would have to be on his game but a game williams gives pretty boy all he can handle...
I ALWAYS thought williams had the style to give pretty boy floyd all kinds of hell... i think that fight would have a chance.. a chance to resemble the first leonard v. hearns fight... too a degree... i know not many people will agree but that is what i always envisioned... only mayweather not having the punch to do what leonard was ultimately able to do... i always
Blayde
I dont really believe Margarito could change something in the opening rounds. Did he just start slow or did Williams force him to start slow? I think Williams did. So IMO its probably gonna be similar to the first fight. Williams wins the first 5 to 6 rounds, Margarito wins most of the later rounds and at the end Williams get a close decision win.
D-MARV
I don't get the notion that Margarito can "just" start faster and everything would be o.k. Does anyone stop to think that maybe he can't start faster!!!! He's a slow starter, he always has been. I don't expect that to change overnight and especially against a top fighter in the division! I see this fight going just like the first fight. A close and competitive fought victory for The Punisher.
Big Slim Sweet
Rematches rarely go the same as their predecessors. Good thing too, otherwise there'd be no need to ever have them.

As for the debate going on here about whether Margarito and Williams 'belong' in the welterweight division, that's just stupid. If they can comfortably make weight then of course they do. They have no obligation to move up just because their arms are a little longer or their shoulders are a bit broader.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Aug 8 2008, 12:30 PM) [snapback]399592[/snapback]
Rematches rarely go the same as their predecessors. Good thing too, otherwise there'd be no need to ever have them.

See:

Margarito vs. Cintron II
Pac-Man v Marquez II
Mosley v. Vargas II
Forrest vs Mosley II(probably the best comparison for this fight)
All 3 Barrera - Morales fights were exactly the same, different winners, but it was basically on 36 round fight.

These are just ones off the top of my head.

They go exactly the same when one fighter makes no adjustments to his style. Margarito has never, ever made a style adjustment, nor is he really capable of it. He fights the same regardless of who he is fighting.
BrutalBodyShots
Yeah I disagree with the "rematches rarely go like the originals" thing. In fact, they usually DO go like the originals since the best indicator of the future is the past. The only time that they usually don't go like the originals is when the original ended by upset KO. Like Lewis/Rahman, Lewis/McCall or if the original goes as expected but the rematch ends in an upset KO like Jones/Tarver I and II.

9 times out of 10 the person that won the original (if the original went more or less as expected) will win the rematch:

Forrest/Mayorga
Mosley/Forrest
Mosley/Vargas
DLH/Mosley
Hopkins/Taylor
Taylor/Pavlik
Marquez/Pacquiao
Mosley/Wright
Ruiz/Holyfield I, II and III
Margarito/Cintron
Wlad/Byrd
Hopkins/Allen
Hopkins/Echols
DLH/Chavez
Castillo/Johnston
Maskaev/Rahman
Tszyu/Mitchell
Barrera/Pacquiao

etc etc. Those are just some that come to mind.

BigG
Brutal, thats true, but alot of those fights were closer the 2nd time (Pavlik-Taylor, Pacquia-Barrera, Mayorga/Forrest).
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 8 2008, 07:14 PM) [snapback]399636[/snapback]
Brutal, thats true, but alot of those fights were closer the 2nd time (Pavlik-Taylor, Pacquia-Barrera, Mayorga/Forrest).

Those fights were a little close, but not much. Barrera managed to stay on his feet, but he still lost easily. Forrest didn't get obliterated, but Mayorga still took a comfortable decision. Pavlik-Taylor was close both times, shit Taylor might have been winning the first time before Pavlik fucked him up.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 8 2008, 07:14 PM) [snapback]399636[/snapback]
Brutal, thats true, but alot of those fights were closer the 2nd time (Pavlik-Taylor, Pacquia-Barrera, Mayorga/Forrest).


Right, but the end result is the same guy getting his hand raised.

Or in the case of very close fights, the rematches 9 times out of 10 are very close.

Point being, there should generally only be rematches of fights that are very close... or of fights that ended by upset KO the first time. There is no reason to see a rematch of a fight where one guy either dominated the fight or won the fight easily and comfortably.

Fitz
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 9 2008, 09:07 AM) [snapback]399634[/snapback]
Yeah I disagree with the "rematches rarely go like the originals" thing. In fact, they usually DO go like the originals since the best indicator of the future is the past. The only time that they usually don't go like the originals is when the original ended by upset KO. Like Lewis/Rahman, Lewis/McCall or if the original goes as expected but the rematch ends in an upset KO like Jones/Tarver I and II.

9 times out of 10 the person that won the original (if the original went more or less as expected) will win the rematch:

Forrest/Mayorga
Mosley/Forrest
Mosley/Vargas
DLH/Mosley
Hopkins/Taylor
Taylor/Pavlik
Marquez/Pacquiao
Mosley/Wright
Ruiz/Holyfield I, II and III
Margarito/Cintron
Wlad/Byrd
Hopkins/Allen
Hopkins/Echols
DLH/Chavez
Castillo/Johnston
Maskaev/Rahman
Tszyu/Mitchell
Barrera/Pacquiao

etc etc. Those are just some that come to mind.


lol. As soon as I read Big Slim's comment, I was like man. I'm sure Brutal has a saying that goes against that grain and was trying to figure put the wording, then here you are, lol.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 8 2008, 10:01 PM) [snapback]399670[/snapback]
lol. As soon as I read Big Slim's comment, I was like man. I'm sure Brutal has a saying that goes against that grain and was trying to figure put the wording, then here you are, lol.


Shit... I'm just too damn predictable LOL.

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