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The CEO
I know somebody out there is mad that I called him The Torrance Tomato...

Vote and discuss...it's multiple choice too....
The CEO
I chose options 2 and 4 by the way...
BigG
I picked the first 3 choices..
WolfishPromistah
Most people I talk to say, and I agree, Cotto was worn down and stopped. Sure, he wasn't KTFO, but I do know that under deepest observation he was sorta made to submit. In retrospect, his actions kinda leave me walking a thin line of whether I wish to just up and say he "bytchd" out, or carry on -- like in what I've stated before -- that he was attempting to buy more time so that he could make it to the last bell, with his corner doing what was felt best for its fighter, who had no objections afterwards.

Using every trick he had, Miguel fought, in my opinion, the best all-around fight I can ever remember seeing from him. He did so for all he could, contributing to making a great night for boxing. Still, when remembering the expression of distress on his face in the final seconds, the way he was hit again with shots that MADE him retreat from the mess he was in, finally dropping in possible hopes that the move would get another eight count from ref Weeks, I think Cotto appeared less that he'd have to be told he'd had enough -- to then say aloud what his quiet and hardworking, prideful spirit ultimately did / didn't want to.

The towel then parted its lips at his uncle's / trainer's command.
D-MARV
Margarito came back, wore Cotto out, and made him submit!
dbdbdb
Margarito pressured and beat Cotto into submission. Cotto just couldn't take anymore of the constant pressure and constant beating of his arms, hips, ribs, face, shoulders etc... Cotto had no choice but to submit, if he hadn't, AM would have stretched him out. By the 10th round, Cotto had absolutely nothing left in the tank and AM was just starting to really turn on the jets.

I don't believe "Come-back" fits what happened in that fight. AM assumed the role of predator in that fight and it was just a matter of time before he caught his prey. Cotto, Up until Round6 was moving and keeping away from AM but was showing evidence of discomfort with the constant pressure he was under and beating he was absorbing.

A Come-back in my mind is where a fighter is almost out of the fight, but gets his second wind to come back and win. {Corrales vs Castillo I} is a perfect come-back scenario.

AM was never in the position to have to come-back. Sure he probally was down on points {I Guess??} Official scorecards were never reveiled.
BigG
Margarito was on his way to a decision win anyway as 2 cards had him up. But I had Cotto up 7-3....so in my eyes it is a comeback win. But Margarito worked him the WHOLE night and punished Cotto...to the point where Cotto had nothing left
D-MARV
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Aug 8 2008, 11:08 AM) [snapback]399585[/snapback]
Margarito pressured and beat Cotto into submission. Cotto just couldn't take anymore of the constant pressure and constant beating of his arms, hips, ribs, face, shoulders etc... Cotto had no choice but to submit, if he hadn't, AM would have stretched him out. By the 10th round, Cotto had absolutely nothing left in the tank and AM was just starting to really turn on the jets.

I don't believe "Come-back" fits what happened in that fight. AM assumed the role of predator in that fight and it was just a matter of time before he caught his prey. Cotto, Up until Round6 was moving and keeping away from AM but was showing evidence of discomfort with the constant pressure he was under and beating he was absorbing.

A Come-back in my mind is where a fighter is almost out of the fight, but gets his second wind to come back and win. {Corrales vs Castillo I} is a perfect come-back scenario.

AM was never in the position to have to come-back. Sure he probally was down on points {I Guess??} Official scorecards were never reveiled.

I had Cotto winning 5 of the first 6 rounds with round 2 being a draw! In my eyes that constitutes a comeback! BUt You're right, Margarito may have been down early but he certainly was not out of the fight!
The CEO
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Aug 8 2008, 11:08 AM) [snapback]399585[/snapback]
Margarito pressured and beat Cotto into submission. Cotto just couldn't take anymore of the constant pressure and constant beating of his arms, hips, ribs, face, shoulders etc... Cotto had no choice but to submit, if he hadn't, AM would have stretched him out. By the 10th round, Cotto had absolutely nothing left in the tank and AM was just starting to really turn on the jets.

I don't believe "Come-back" fits what happened in that fight. AM assumed the role of predator in that fight and it was just a matter of time before he caught his prey. Cotto, Up until Round6 was moving and keeping away from AM but was showing evidence of discomfort with the constant pressure he was under and beating he was absorbing.

A Come-back in my mind is where a fighter is almost out of the fight, but gets his second wind to come back and win. {Corrales vs Castillo I} is a perfect come-back scenario.

AM was never in the position to have to come-back. Sure he probally was down on points {I Guess??} Official scorecards were never reveiled.


Ahhh...I think this is the very first time dbdbdb and I have ever disagreed.....that sucks...lol

Margarito was a predator with his eye on his prey all night as you say, and in HIS mind he was gonna get it....but that does not make it a given....

Cotto was throwing and landing right up until he had to start taking knees...suggesting gassing was integral to him losing.....which leads me to believe that Margarito was lucky he caught Cotto's nose in a way to damage it in the 2nd round...as it's kinda hard to fill your lungs with oxygen when you're having trouble breathing....lol....but hey....that's Boxing...sometimes one lucky shot early can be the difference maker by the end of the night...


P.S.~ Whoever said Margarito "destroyed Cotto in devastating fashion" is one of those "nuthuggers" we were talking about the other day....those fans who like to hug the nuts. Reveal thine selves...
dbdbdb
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Aug 8 2008, 02:16 PM) [snapback]399599[/snapback]
Ahhh...I think this is the very first time dbdbdb and I have ever disagreed.....that sucks...lol


Yeah it does!!!

When great minds are in different parts of the same house and one sees the sun rise at 6AM, but the other sees it at 6:15AM, doesn't mean they disagree on when the sun rose. It just means one saw the light sooner than the other.

I had to reach deep into the wisdom barrel for the one. laugh.gif

QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Aug 8 2008, 02:16 PM) [snapback]399599[/snapback]
Margarito was a predator with his eye on his prey all night as you say, and in HIS mind he was gonna get it....but that does not make it a given....


Cotto's tactic of stick\flurry & move in the earlier rounds became a tactic of flurry to get some space/out of the way in the later rounds. So even though Cotto was landing in the later rounds, it was the only way to gain some space and keep AM off of him. As Cotto's momentum was diminishing, AM's momentum was increasing and both fighters came to that realization at about the sixth, seventh for sure when Cotto started catching AM shots flush and got hurt.

I used the predator\prey analogy because it fit this fight. Most if not all, predators will chase their prey until they tire, when the chase is over, the prey has no choice but accept the inevitable. And that's what happened, Cotto realized that he didn't have the firepower to hurt AM. But AM had plenty power to hurt him every time he stopped moving. And he was tiring so he also couldn't match AM's stamina. So, in essence the Predator knew that the prey was tiring and would be caught. That reality alone won the fight for AM and it started to show on Cotto's face after the ninth round.

QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Aug 8 2008, 02:16 PM) [snapback]399599[/snapback]
Cotto was throwing and landing right up until he had to start taking knees...suggesting gassing was integral to him losing.....which leads me to believe that Margarito was lucky he caught Cotto's nose in a way to damage it in the 2nd round...as it's kinda hard to fill your lungs with oxygen when you're having trouble breathing....lol....but hey....that's Boxing...sometimes one lucky shot early can be the difference maker by the end of the night...
P.S.~ Whoever said Margarito "destroyed Cotto in devastating fashion" is one of those "nuthuggers" we were talking about the other day....those fans who like to hug the nuts. Reveal thine selves...


Sadly I believe Cotto was mentally & physically broken in that fight. Only time will tell how much of a lasting affect it will have.

But, I'm willing to bet anything, that Cotto has learned his lesson well and will never fight AM again.
!
The CEO
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Aug 8 2008, 03:48 PM) [snapback]399603[/snapback]
Yeah it does!!!

When great minds are in different parts of the same house and one sees the sun rise at 6AM, but the other sees it at 6:15AM, doesn't mean they disagree on when the sun rose. It just means one saw the light sooner than the other.

I had to reach deep into the wisdom barrel for the one. laugh.gif


My God that's deep....ohhhh shit.


QUOTE
Cotto's tactic of stick\flurry & move in the earlier rounds became a tactic of flurry to get some space/out of the way in the later rounds. So even though Cotto was landing in the later rounds, it was the only way to gain some space and keep AM off of him. As Cotto's momentum was diminishing, AM's momentum was increasing and both fighters came to that realization at about the sixth, seventh for sure when Cotto started catching AM shots flush and got hurt.

I used the predator\prey analogy because it fit this fight. Most if not all, predators will chase their prey until they tire, when the chase is over, the prey has no choice but accept the inevitable. And that's what happened, Cotto realized that he didn't have the firepower to hurt AM. But AM had plenty power to hurt him every time he stopped moving. And he was tiring so he also couldn't match AM's stamina. So, in essence the Predator knew that the prey was tiring and would be caught. That reality alone won the fight for AM and it started to show on Cotto's face after the ninth round.
This is why Triple DB is an excellent poster...anyone wanna argue that for me...laugh.gif

So if you can't beat 'em, you join 'em.....I DID have Cotto 2 rounds up though....making it a "comeback" on my side of the house....although it did SEEM inevitable that Marg was gonna catch him and eat him.


QUOTE
Sadly I believe Cotto was mentally & physically broken in that fight. Only time will tell how much of a lasting affect it will have.

But, I'm willing to bet anything, that Cotto has learned his lesson well and will never fight AM again.!


but I CAN disagree with this little part....ha HA!

I don't think it was that bad....you'll notice that Cotto stayed professional and cool throughout the entire fight...he smartly took the the knees and accepted the towel about to come in....I believe he has more Championship blood in his veins than we know....

I don't think he'll fight Margarito again....wanna know why?....because Margarito is gonna lose again and fall out of the mix.....yes2.gif....Clottey can beat him....Mosley can beat him...Williams WOULD beat him.....
FenderDG3
I picked #1 and #4. I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, but I don't see how anybody who watched the fight could debate that options 1 and 4 didn't happen. Just my two cents though... I think Margo wore Cotto out w/ the constant pressure which eventually led to Cotto getting destroyed in brutal fashion.


p.s.- You're my man C.E.O. and I'm pretty sure you weren't lumping me into this group, but I want to let it be known that I'm not a Margo nuthugger because I wanted and was rooting for Cotto to win. However, Margo impressed me a lot, and as much as I hate to admit it, my man got "destroyed in brutal fashion"
caneman
QUOTE(FenderDG3 @ Aug 8 2008, 05:14 PM) [snapback]399621[/snapback]
I picked #1 and #4. I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, but I don't see how anybody who watched the fight could debate that options 1 and 4 didn't happen. Just my two cents though... I think Margo wore Cotto out w/ the constant pressure which eventually led to Cotto getting destroyed in brutal fashion.
p.s.- You're my man C.E.O. and I'm pretty sure you weren't lumping me into this group, but I want to let it be known that I'm not a Margo nuthugger because I wanted and was rooting for Cotto to win. However, Margo impressed me a lot, and as much as I hate to admit it, my man got "destroyed in brutal fashion"



I can actually total agree with this trend of thought! Cotto did summit though as well but had little choice IMO!
BrutalBodyShots
Guys, I think some of you that had the fight scored widely in favor of Cotto or gave Cotto 5-6 of the first 6 rounds need to take a deeper look into scoring criteria for a fight. A major part of "clean effective punching" is actually doing damage to your opponent. While Cotto was doing an excellent job boxing, using the ring and landing clean combinations, he was seemingly doing little to no damage on Margarito. Margarito however was certainly doing damage to Cotto, even if he was landing less clean shots. While Cotto was landing clean shots, if they weren't doing any damage can you really say that they were all that effective? I think if this mindset is used a little more everyone would have scorecards that better reflect what is actually taking place in the ring. As Max and other commentators have said in the past, in a close round ask yourself after the round "which fighter would I rather have been during that round?" Overall IMO there were many fewer rounds that I would have wished I were Cotto; Margarito was doing more damage overall than Cotto was and that should be evidenced (and was officially) on scorecards.

BoxingStill#1
Being a big Cotto fan I wish this TYPE of fight never happened for him.....

But being a Huge boxing fan this is just what the doctor ordered....

Cotto was beat mentally,......more than anything....

This was the type of fight that ruins boxers.....Only time will tell where Cotto will be.....

It can really take a mental effect on a boxer who throws his entier arsenal....and barley dents the opponent.

P.S .......after watching the Cotto/Marg fight....then the Zab/Clotty fight it is very apparent to me that judges are now pulling more towards the Boxer who is doing more damage...Not the fighter landing more and cleaner punches.....I had Cotto ahead
going into the 7th....towards the ninth Marg pulled closer but Cotto still had my attention.....So yea....this may be good for boxing..making fighters actually fight.....

The bottom line is Cotto was beat in the same fasion he use to beat his opponent's..........Wearing down , then finishing just doing what he does best applying pressure..

But in this fight he was the Boxer......In my opinion this was the best thig for him.....Otherwise it would have been an earlier fight....Marg is just too big for him....

In addition, Cotto may have had a better chance if he would have traded a little more in the end..Mainly because Marg has big problems with output from the other opponent........He dosent seem to throw nearly as much when someone is all over HIM
.....
The CEO
QUOTE(FenderDG3 @ Aug 8 2008, 05:14 PM) [snapback]399621[/snapback]
I picked #1 and #4. I'm not trying to be an a$$hole, but I don't see how anybody who watched the fight could debate that options 1 and 4 didn't happen. Just my two cents though... I think Margo wore Cotto out w/ the constant pressure which eventually led to Cotto getting destroyed in brutal fashion.
p.s.- You're my man C.E.O. and I'm pretty sure you weren't lumping me into this group, but I want to let it be known that I'm not a Margo nuthugger because I wanted and was rooting for Cotto to win. However, Margo impressed me a lot, and as much as I hate to admit it, my man got "destroyed in brutal fashion"


You know I wasn't lumpin' you in there...we boys...

If y'all didn't already know....I started this particular thread with a little tongue in cheek goin' on....lol...but after dbdbdb broke it down like that, it essentially killed the angle I was going for....

I had just read somewhere some huge Margarito hugger sayin' Cotto got "destroyed in devastating fashion"...and I gotta disagree....I just don't see it that way.....Margarito took way more leather to the face than Cotto did....and yes...he may have smiled through all those shots on that night....BUT...that's the kind of punch eating that shortens a career....don't be surprised if Margarito looks pretty worn within his next two fights...
caneman
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 8 2008, 06:46 PM) [snapback]399631[/snapback]
Guys, I think some of you that had the fight scored widely in favor of Cotto or gave Cotto 5-6 of the first 6 rounds need to take a deeper look into scoring criteria for a fight. A major part of "clean effective punching" is actually doing damage to your opponent. While Cotto was doing an excellent job boxing, using the ring and landing clean combinations, he was seemingly doing little to no damage on Margarito. Margarito however was certainly doing damage to Cotto, even if he was landing less clean shots. While Cotto was landing clean shots, if they weren't doing any damage can you really say that they were all that effective? I think if this mindset is used a little more everyone would have scorecards that better reflect what is actually taking place in the ring. As Max and other commentators have said in the past, in a close round ask yourself after the round "which fighter would I rather have been during that round?" Overall IMO there were many fewer rounds that I would have wished I were Cotto; Margarito was doing more damage overall than Cotto was and that should be evidenced (and was officially) on scorecards.



You know, I was talking to several people about this fight & how WIDE the scoring was! I feel that if you watch closely & then 2 non bias fans should be no further than 4 points apart in a 12 round fight...in this fight I seen 98-92 for Cotto @ the time of the stoppage & 98-92 for Margarito & IMO this just wasn't that kinda fight to have either guy ahead by more than 2 rounds! I think I had it 96-95 Margarito @ the time of the stoppage & that round was VERY close to a 10-6 round for Margarito. Honestly I don't understand some peoples scoring but in no way do I mean it disrespectfully, I just can't see this fight like they did & honestly hope I never can cause it would mean I lost my ability to score a properly & after watching fights 35+ years...that would be awful IMO!
dbdbdb
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Aug 8 2008, 07:36 PM) [snapback]399638[/snapback]
You know I wasn't lumpin' you in there...we boys...

If y'all didn't already know....I started this particular thread with a little tongue in cheek goin' on....lol...but after dbdbdb broke it down like that, it essentially killed the angle I was going for....


Sorry Bro. .... didn't mean to ruin the flow of things.

But this was the type of fight where you had a clear aggressor {That was absolutely relentless} against an obvious boxer {Trying to Utilize the sweet science}. And everyones unofficial scorecard reflected the type of fighter they favor.

I was in a quandary, because I favor both types. And in such a case, I favored Cotto's tactics up until round 6 because he was outpointing AM and was hard to catch. Starting at round7, the wheels started coming off Cotto's wagon and it was all avoidance on his part from that point on. The chase was over and Cotto started taking a beating.

rusty_trombone
How come there is no option for "Margarito is a ball licker" or "Cotto is a ball licker"
Bhopreign
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Aug 8 2008, 01:16 PM) [snapback]399599[/snapback]
Ahhh...I think this is the very first time dbdbdb and I have ever disagreed.....that sucks...lol

Margarito was a predator with his eye on his prey all night as you say, and in HIS mind he was gonna get it....but that does not make it a given....

Cotto was throwing and landing right up until he had to start taking knees...suggesting gassing was integral to him losing.....which leads me to believe that Margarito was lucky he caught Cotto's nose in a way to damage it in the 2nd round...as it's kinda hard to fill your lungs with oxygen when you're having trouble breathing....lol....but hey....that's Boxing...sometimes one lucky shot early can be the difference maker by the end of the night...
P.S.~ Whoever said Margarito "destroyed Cotto in devastating fashion" is one of those "nuthuggers" we were talking about the other day....those fans who like to hug the nuts. Reveal thine selves...

Thats why we have mouths to breathe out of too. Cotto's breathing wasnt the problem is so it was because of the stress he was under from Margarito.
The CEO
He was swallowing a shitload of blood the whole fight....plus, in case you didn't know, you're supposed to try NOT to breathe through your mouth while fighting....as it leaves your jaw open for injury, your tongue in danger of being bitten off, and it gasses you even faster....there is no doubt he was having trouble filling his lungs...period...therefore gassing even sooner....
caneman
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Aug 8 2008, 08:14 PM) [snapback]399644[/snapback]
Sorry Bro. .... didn't mean to ruin the flow of things.

But this was the type of fight where you had a clear aggressor {That was absolutely relentless} against an obvious boxer {Trying to Utilize the sweet science}. And everyones unofficial scorecard reflected the type of fighter they favor.

I was in a quandary, because I favor both types. And in such a case, I favored Cotto's tactics up until round 6 because he was outpointing AM and was hard to catch. Starting at round7, the wheels started coming off Cotto's wagon and it was all avoidance on his part from that point on. The chase was over and Cotto started taking a beating.



Yea, the wheels come off the Zab wagon the very next weekend!
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Bhopreign @ Aug 8 2008, 08:21 PM) [snapback]399646[/snapback]
Thats why we have mouths to breathe out of too. Cotto's breathing wasnt the problem is so it was because of the stress he was under from Margarito.

Honestly? rolleyes.gif
BoxingStill#1
r u serious dude?....ever been punched with ur mouth ajar?............
King Eugene
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Aug 8 2008, 09:30 PM) [snapback]399665[/snapback]
r u serious dude?....ever been punched with ur mouth ajar?............


LMBO

What I seen was Cotto was outboxing him, for some reason he gassed out, then eventually got the wheels beat off of him!
Boxingjunkie
Cotto definitly started out winning but then gassed out. Cotto has only been in two long tough fights. Mosley and Margarito. Both fights he gassed out towards the end. Since people are still talking about how Cotto lost Id say there are plenty of nut huggers to go around LOL.
Imperius3
Margarito wore Cotto down, and it was also a comeback victory on my scorecard.

I don't think Cotto submit. He was simply trying to survive, and I don't think he was quitting.
JonnyBlaze
I picked 1 and 3..He definitely did both..Cotto couldn't keep Margaritos pace for that long and Margarito wore him down and eventually made him submit and go down on his own(last time he went down)
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