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JonnyBlaze
Sup everyone,
I know this topic is going to create a lot of controversy soo I think I'll start it off with my own list..My list is in no specific order so don't jump on me for numbers..hahaha..Also,I gotta admit,my top 10 is pro boxers and less fighters and punchers..Skill rules all in my book..

1)Muhammad Ali---We all know he's top 10..
2)George Foreman---Quite possibily the biggest puncher ever..
3)Gene Tunney---Amazing skills and only lost once in 86 fights..He also beat Dempsey twice(I know some of you will same he wasn't in his prime or wasn't as good anymore)
4)Joe Louis---We all know he's top 10..
5)Larry Holmes---He has to be top 10..It is too bad he wasn't around in the Ali,Foreman,Frazier,Quarry,Liston era..He was known as Ali's sparring partner,but was soooo much more..I'd like to know who you all think has a better jab between Holmes and Ali..
6)Lennox Lewis---He needs to get his credit as top 10 I think..He did amazing things for the sport of boxing..
7)Rocky Marciano---He never lost and retired as champ..His skills are overrated but he was one of the toughest heavyweights ever..
8)James J Corbett---For you that know of him,you know he deserves to be a top 10 heavyweight..He was a amazing boxer and had a very impressive record..
9)Jack Dempsey---He has destroyed guys who weight 50-80 lbs more then him with ease..He never backed down from anyone either and had dynamite in both hands..
10)Evander Holyfield---I had a hard time deciding between Joe Frazier and Holyfield,but I had to go with Holyfield based on the fact that I think Holyfield would of beaten Frazier in a 12 or 15 round fight..Holyfield has won the heavyweight belt more then anyone and has gone through some of the craziest moments in boxing history and prevailed..Most of his losses were due to the fact that his left shoulder had never healed and he kept fighting through the pain which then made him drop his left arm and take right jabs(Michael Moore) and right hands from massive punchers(but didn't go down during the period of time of this injury)..George Foreman even said Holyfield hit him with the hardest left hook to his body he had ever felt..Holyfield has fought the best at every weight class he was in even if it meant being 30-50 lbs smaller then his opponent..He was a very smart boxer(what punches to throw and when,how to set people up,ect.)..You could never count Holyfield out of a fight,he always had a chance to win..He definitely has one of the best chins of all time too..
BigG
Ali
Louis
Lewis
Holmes
Foreman
Frazier
Tyson
Holyfield
Marciano
Jack Johnson
Warlord
1a.) Muhammad Ali
1b.) Joe Louis
1c.) Rocky Marciano
4.) George Foreman
5.) Evander Holyfield
6.) Lennox Lewis
7.) Jack Dempsey
8.) Larry Holmes
9.) Mike Tyson
10.) Joe Frazier

1-3 are considered equals, listed by alphabetical order. The rest are ranked by career acheivements/skill/ and impact on the sport. With the exception of 1-3, this list usually changes every single time I post it, for no apparent reason.
BigG
Mine was in no order BTW.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 10 2008, 12:47 AM) [snapback]399827[/snapback]
1a.) Muhammad Ali
1b.) Joe Louis
1c.) Rocky Marciano
4.) George Foreman
5.) Evander Holyfield
6.) Lennox Lewis
7.) Jack Dempsey
8.) Larry Holmes
9.) Mike Tyson
10.) Joe Frazier

1-3 are considered equals, listed by alphabetical order. The rest are ranked by career acheivements/skill/ and impact on the sport. With the exception of 1-3, this list usually changes every single time I post it, for no apparent reason.

I like your list..I do have to say though that Ali in my opinion was the all time best at heavyweight and think he should be number 1 since i feel he would of beaten Louis and Marciano..Marciano like I said was one of the toughest guys at heavyweight ever,but he didn't have the skill of Louis and especially Ali..I couldn't put my top ten in any order cause it was just tooo hard..I also think Tyson shouldn't be in the top 10..I really wanted to put Frazier in my top 10 cause he definitely deserves it..I like how you did your top 10 based on acheivements,skill,and impact..It's too bad noone else put Gene Tunney in their top 10,he in my opinion would definitely replace Tyson..Tyson was really good,but proved not to be great since he was wayyyyy too inconsistant..His career as a whole is what takes him out of the top 10 in my opinion..He never beat Lennox or Holyfield and never avenged the Buster loss..He would of never beaten Lennox or Holy even when he was in his prime..Let me know what you all think..
JonnyBlaze
Jack Johnson was another name I was also debating putting in my top 10..If I could of put him and Frazier in,my top 10 couldn't of been more complete..
Warlord
I rank Ali, Louis, and Marciano all at #1 because, technically, Marciano isn't even a heavyweight anymore by today's standards. He never cracked 200lbs in a professional fight. He usually fought at or around the 190 mark. As for Ali, I flip-flop between he and Louis. Sometimes I just think Joe Louis was too complete a fighter for Ali to handle. His power, grace, speed, and skill would've overwhelmed a young Ali, and hurt an old Ali. But it's just so hard to actually say with any sort of definitiveness how a fight between the two would've turned out, thus... I just rank those three as the holy trinity of heavyweight boxing.

As for the rest of my list, I too really regretted not putting Tunney on my list. On my last list of top 10 heavyweights, I had Tunney on it instead of Dempsey. I alternate between those two fighters nearly every time I put together a top-10 list.

Tyson deserves to be in the top-10 based on his prime years, IMO. He was obviously well past his prime out of prison, both physically and mentally. If we aren't going to hold Ali or Holyfield's post-prime moments against them, then we shouldn't do so with Tyson either.

Jack Johnson is the easiest to leave off, for me, because he doesn't stack up to any of the fighters on my list. Not IMO. His "put up your dukes" style of fighting has long since vanished from the sport. Every other fighter on this list has a style that transcends time, so far at least. I love Jack Johnson, he's one of my favortie fighters of all-time because of they way he carried himself in life. I love Unforgiveable Blackness as much as the next guy, but I think people's new found love for Jack Johnson leads to him getting ranked higher than he really should be. After all, Jim Jeffries would have to be on our lists as well, if Jack Johnson is, as Jeffries, in his prime, was one of the most physically dominating fighters in the history of the sport.

Anyway, this is all subjective at best, and as long as guys aren't trying to argue Chris Byrd onto the list, I think we can all make valid, respectable arguments for our lists.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 10 2008, 11:49 PM) [snapback]400017[/snapback]
I rank Ali, Louis, and Marciano all at #1 because, technically, Marciano isn't even a heavyweight anymore by today's standards. He never cracked 200lbs in a professional fight. He usually fought at or around the 190 mark. As for Ali, I flip-flop between he and Louis. Sometimes I just think Joe Louis was too complete a fighter for Ali to handle. His power, grace, speed, and skill would've overwhelmed a young Ali, and hurt an old Ali. But it's just so hard to actually say with any sort of definitiveness how a fight between the two would've turned out, thus... I just rank those three as the holy trinity of heavyweight boxing.

As for the rest of my list, I too really regretted not putting Tunney on my list. On my last list of top 10 heavyweights, I had Tunney on it instead of Dempsey. I alternate between those two fighters nearly every time I put together a top-10 list.

Tyson deserves to be in the top-10 based on his prime years, IMO. He was obviously well past his prime out of prison, both physically and mentally. If we aren't going to hold Ali or Holyfield's post-prime moments against them, then we shouldn't do so with Tyson either.

Jack Johnson is the easiest to leave off, for me, because he doesn't stack up to any of the fighters on my list. Not IMO. His "put up your dukes" style of fighting has long since vanished from the sport. Every other fighter on this list has a style that transcends time, so far at least. I love Jack Johnson, he's one of my favortie fighters of all-time because of they way he carried himself in life. I love Unforgiveable Blackness as much as the next guy, but I think people's new found love for Jack Johnson leads to him getting ranked higher than he really should be. After all, Jim Jeffries would have to be on our lists as well, if Jack Johnson is, as Jeffries, in his prime, was one of the most physically dominating fighters in the history of the sport.

Anyway, this is all subjective at best, and as long as guys aren't trying to argue Chris Byrd onto the list, I think we can all make valid, respectable arguments for our lists.

It's good to know someone else ranks Tunney..Well,atleast in some of your rankings..hahaha..Tunney is sooo under rated today..He was a master boxer like Ali was and there are very few fighters I believe you can call master boxers,especially at heavyweight..I do consider Marciano a heavyweight even by todays standards..Chris Byrd has admitted to have not been able to make 200 and more sometimes but still was beating guys who weighed 250..Heavyweighs have that choice to weigh any weight they want..
Holyfield and Ali past their primes both were successful..Ali/Norton series,the Foreman fight,and many more..Holyfield past his prime was when he was fighting injuried..I don't know how some people put Jack Johnson as the #1 heavyweight ever..He is definitely is top 15..I think he is right outside my top 10..Joe Louis vs Ali would of been a amazing fight..Ali had the footwork and hand speed edge but Louis definitely had the power and he was smart about using his power and didn't just try to go all out..Louis had a really good jab to setup his big shots..I would have to go with Ali though because I think he had better skill..Ali would of beat Marciano easy but that simulated fight says otherwise,which is crazy..Ali would of beated Tyson with even more ease..
Tyson was never strong mentally which is one of the biggest parts of boxing which is also why he never could of been great in my opinion and just really good..Boxing is 90% mental and 10% physical..Only a true boxer would know this..Andrew Golota is a good example of this..If he was strong mentally,he could of been a amazing boxer but he decided to quit on his stool and to try to end fights quick and when they didn't end,he'd get disqualified..Tyson relied on people to be afraid of him and when they weren't,he'd lose or would have a extremely tough fight on his hands and would keep looking for one punch to end it..Tyson would be in my top 15-20 though..Tyson had a very short prime in my opinion..
Warlord
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Aug 11 2008, 12:27 AM) [snapback]400020[/snapback]
It's good to know someone else ranks Tunney..Well,atleast in some of your rankings..hahaha..Tunney is sooo under rated today..He was a master boxer like Ali was and there are very few fighters I believe you can call master boxers,especially at heavyweight..I do consider Marciano a heavyweight even by todays standards..Chris Byrd has admitted to have not been able to make 200 and more sometimes but still was beating guys who weighed 250..Heavyweighs have that choice to weigh any weight they want..
Holyfield and Ali past their primes both were successful..Ali/Norton series,the Foreman fight,and many more..Holyfield past his prime was when he was fighting injuried..I don't know how some people put Jack Johnson as the #1 heavyweight ever..He is definitely is top 15..I think he is right outside my top 10..Joe Louis vs Ali would of been a amazing fight..Ali had the footwork and hand speed edge but Louis definitely had the power and he was smart about using his power and didn't just try to go all out..Louis had a really good jab to setup his big shots..I would have to go with Ali though because I think he had better skill..Ali would of beat Marciano easy but that simulated fight says otherwise,which is crazy..Ali would of beated Tyson with even more ease..
Tyson was never strong mentally which is one of the biggest parts of boxing which is also why he never could of been great in my opinion and just really good..Boxing is 90% mental and 10% physical..Only a true boxer would know this..Andrew Golota is a good example of this..If he was strong mentally,he could of been a amazing boxer but he decided to quit on his stool and to try to end fights quick and when they didn't end,he'd get disqualified..Tyson relied on people to be afraid of him and when they weren't,he'd lose or would have a extremely tough fight on his hands and would keep looking for one punch to end it..Tyson would be in my top 15-20 though..Tyson had a very short prime in my opinion..

No question Tyson was a front runner, but that still doesn't diminish the great physical skills he possessed in youth. I agree his prime was short, but there is no denying the skillset he was working with.

As for the Marciano argument, actually, I don't think heavyweights have the choice to weigh whatever they want. I think there is a minimum weight that must be made in order to qualify for a heavyweight bout. Officially that rule is 200lbs, though fighters have been known to come in at slightly under that (see Roy Jones Jr.) However, I don't see how any sanctioning body today could get away with consistantly letting a 189lb fighter step in the ring at heavyweight with a man weighing anywhere from 220-260lbs. (189lbs is the highest Marciano ever weighed in for a fight, according to boxrec.com.)

Ali was successful past his prime, indeed, for a time. He did, however, have controverstial wins (Norton), and embarrassing losses (Spinks, Berbick) to go alongside his post-prime success. Holyfield, too, had many embarrassing losses late in his career which, rightfully, are not held against him when contemplating his place in heavyweight history. (Losses to John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, James Toney, and Larry Donald are all most certainly attributed more to Holyfield's dimishing skills than to anything positive done by his opponents.)

Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse. Some people rank Tyson low or not at all, and that's fine by me, as long as they have legitimate arguments for it. You seem as if you do. Guys like Teddy Atlas don't have legitimate arguments, however. He ranks him low because he's an asshole with an agenda. That's shit I can't stand.
D-MARV
Here's my top 10 in no order except the top 3... Last time we had this thread I had Floyd Patterson and Jack Johnson on the list... I took them out and added Tyson and Tunney

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Foreman

Holmes
Lewis
Tyson
Frazier
Dempsey
Holyfield
Tunney


Warlord
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 11 2008, 07:53 AM) [snapback]400048[/snapback]
Here's my top 10 in no order except the top 3... Last time we had this thread I had Floyd Patterson and Jack Johnson on the list... I took them out and added Tyson and Tunney

I remember that shit, lol. I think I was the one who debated with you about Patterson and Johnson being on that list. laugh.gif What compelled you to replace them with Tyson and Tunney?
D-MARV
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 12 2008, 12:23 AM) [snapback]400193[/snapback]
I remember that shit, lol. I think I was the one who debated with you about Patterson and Johnson being on that list. laugh.gif What compelled you to replace them with Tyson and Tunney?

Well after we had that debate I went back and watched film on Jack Johnson... He really wasn't as great as I thought he was. The guys on my list would have pounded him, along with guys like Marciano, Patterson and Liston who would have beaten him as well!

Patterson is great IMO, but he's not top 10. I thought it through and I think he would have been top 15, maybe... but not top 10.
Warlord
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 15 2008, 07:57 PM) [snapback]400760[/snapback]
Well after we had that debate I went back and watched film on Jack Johnson... He really wasn't as great as I thought he was. The guys on my list would have pounded him, along with guys like Marciano, Patterson and Liston who would have beaten him as well!

Patterson is great IMO, but he's not top 10. I thought it through and I think he would have been top 15, maybe... but not top 10.

Good breakdown. You're a cool cat in my book, damarvelous1.
BigG
I have Johnson rated because he beat everyone in his time and had a huge impact on boxing. But the other greats would have pounded him for sure.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 16 2008, 05:05 AM) [snapback]400818[/snapback]
I have Johnson rated because he beat everyone in his time and had a huge impact on boxing. But the other greats would have pounded him for sure.

Definitely biggreorge..It's really messed up when boxing analysis's sometimes put Johnson as the best heavyweight ever..Guys like Bert Sugar and guys like him are biased in a way and if they like a certain style,they'll rate them higher than they should be..Being an exciting fighter doesn't make you great,only your skills can make you great..I just wish everyone would realize that,especially casual fans who think Tyson would destroy Ali..There is no way Tyson would have ever beaten Ali on his best day..Ali's jab is way better than Lennox Lewis' jab was and Lennox controlled Tyson with it..Height also gave Tyson problems and Ali is around a half foot taller than him,give or take..
D-MARV
Tyson was strong, fast and had really good defense. Ali would win but he would have to do more than just Jab his way to a victory
BigG
Ali beats Tyson but wouldn't surprise me to see Ali on the floor early or if Ali decided to lay on the ropes he could be on the receiving end of some vicious left hooks, body shots, uppercuts. But in the end Ali wins a decision because of toughness, chin, and skill
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 24 2008, 10:06 PM) [snapback]401795[/snapback]
Ali beats Tyson but wouldn't surprise me to see Ali on the floor early or if Ali decided to lay on the ropes he could be on the receiving end of some vicious left hooks, body shots, uppercuts. But in the end Ali wins a decision because of toughness, chin, and skill

Fitz,you're right that I am using the wrong Tyson..Tyson would use his head movement to get out of the way of some jabs but Ali was faster than anyone Tyson ever fought so he'd be getting hit more often with Ali's jab than anyone elses..I think it'd be like Ali/Frazier in a way..Frazier would bob and weave but Tyson would be slipping punches(also some bob and weaving)..Slipping in my opinion is a better than bob and weave for straight punches..It could be possible to see Ali on the ground in the fight too biggeorge..He did lay on the ropes a little bit early in his career but would also throw some amazing counter combos off the ropes..Ali did a real good job protecting his whole body while on the ropes although you could get him with some body shots sometimes..When Ali would be on his toes dancing,Tyson would be self destructing mentally cause he'd have to work so hard to get near Ali than Ali would combo and move..Ali would beat Tyson at the end of the day,everyday though..Ali's jab would be able to hold Tyson away and when Tyson would come in,right hands would rain down on him and left uppercuts would be comin from down below to raise Tyson's head to land the right..
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