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The Boxing Fan
You all know me now as the "Hater of Boxing Politricks or Politics" but I also question Calzaghe wins. After reading an article on Boxingscene , this guy pretty much feels the same way I did about Roy never ducking Calzaghe. Basically what the guy is saying is the time Calzaghe came to prominence with his so called WBO title, the WBO was not recognized as a major sanctioning body. He also pointed out that when Hamed was champ, Juan Manuel Marquex was the mandatory for Hamed and Hamed was never forced to fight this guy. Now this is where I start wondering just like a alot of people about the plot or tactics of fighters and their promoters. As longs as you hold a so called major belt , you are not forced to be a mandatory for any major sanctioning body unless they deem it so. This tactics allows fighters to negotiate for better purses instead of it going to Purse bid and all that other cool stuff that can bog down a fight. I noticed Calzaghe and mainly, Dariusz Michalczewski, Naseem Hamed would vacate the other sanctioning body belt after they win the fight. The question I'm asking is why because at the time when these fighters were raising hell in their hayday, the mandatories in the WBO were just awful in my opinion. Also They had a habit of hand picking guys out of the other sanctions that were lesser opposition like the WBA #5 or IBF #4, but never a real threat as we learned with Hamed. You would see similiarity with the other sanctions and their ranking where a guy is almost consistent with each sanction body until he gest to the WBO back in the day. Now Where I'm going with this is why did these guys vacate belts and not fight the mandatories of the other Sanctioning bodies? Calzaghe is spectacular to watch. his dismantling of "Lefthook" and his out classing of the "the Viking Warrior" are accomplishments that must be recognized for his greatness. However, I remember guys like Liles, Nunn, and Johnson who were still around who could have been credible opponents for him to add to his resume. I also can't help but think about a Michalczewski fight that could have been made but either both promoters were to scared of the potential losses for their cash cows or something. I don't really know. To conclude my question which is not really an arguement because I'm not really sure, is Calzaghe outside of his wins over Eubanks,Lacy, Hopkins and The Dane, a champion of quality or quantity?
neophyte7
Calzaghe's so called win over a 43 year old Hopkins is dubious... history will record him being put on his ass quicker than he ever has in his american debut... he also asked the ref to stop a fight against byron mitchell...(watch this very suspect stoppage) I can understand Cal in this one hs he tasted Mitchell spun his head around like the exorcist with a right hand... Cal is not a legend. Some good opponents in 40 plus in Hopkins and Eubanks...
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Aug 10 2008, 07:41 PM) [snapback]399949[/snapback]
Calzaghe's so called win over a 43 year old Hopkins is dubious... history will record him being put on his ass quicker than he ever has in his american debut... he also asked the ref to stop a fight against byron mitchell...(watch this very suspect stoppage) I can understand Cal in this one hs he tasted Mitchell spun his head around like the exorcist with a right hand... Cal is not a legend. Some good opponents in 40 plus in Hopkins and Eubanks...

Intersting point, but he is a busy fighter. I just wonder about the quality or quantity of opposition.

D-MARV
What's the debate here?

Calzaghe is a "great" fighter and a Legend! simple as that. I dont like the guy but Im not gonna hate on him!
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 10 2008, 10:36 PM) [snapback]399977[/snapback]
What's the debate here?

Calzaghe is a "great" fighter and a Legend! simple as that. I dont like the guy but Im not gonna hate on him!

Whether his opposition was quantity or quality? The credibility of WBO at the time and if he was just a paper Championship.
D-MARV
QUOTE(The Boxing Fan @ Aug 10 2008, 11:08 PM) [snapback]399989[/snapback]
Whether his opposition was quantity or quality? The credibility of WBO at the time and if he was just a paper Championship.

Oh Ok gotcha!
I think his resume is padded a bit but he does have some quality wins on that resume!!!!
STEVENSKI
I don't think much of his style but he wins & has beat every fighter that was put in front of him.

There have been a lot of false pretenders to the 168lb throne & guys like Lacy & Kessler being beat show Zags was the man at 168.
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 10 2008, 11:21 PM) [snapback]400001[/snapback]
I don't think much of his style but he wins & has beat every fighter that was put in front of him.

There have been a lot of false pretenders to the 168lb throne & guys like Lacy & Kessler being beat show Zags was the man at 168.


what about Liles and Nunn and the other 168s before Kessler and Lacy. He would never challenge any of the other 168s until Lacy and Kessler. I just wonder if he was protected also. He would never challenge his Light Heavyweight counterpart Dariuz. That would have been a big European Fan fare fight.
King Eugene
I think he should have fought more Top Ranked Americans earlier in his career but he still beat everybody put in front of him. Some fighters just dont get enough credit for what they do in the ring now a days. Oh well you cant really take nothing from him.

He still loses to Jones!
BigG
I believe Calzgahe is overrated by some UK fans but all in all is a great fighter.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 12 2008, 04:59 AM) [snapback]400219[/snapback]
Calazghe isn't the greatest fighter technically. I find his style rather amateurish, but he gets the job done. Mainly due to his workrate. I also think he was protected and fought garbage, though he has picked up competition recently and anyone who holds it against him right now. Are haters. I suppose looking at him as a fighter as a whole, you can find criticism with him as he competition.
But in his most recent fights, three of those had been for a unified champion status. To say he has fought nobody still, is straight up garbage. As a current p4p fighter, he is well up there. As an all time p4p fighter, he still has a way to go.



Yeah, I agree.


His competition was hand picked and he was brought on too slowly. He was still fighting C class opposition when he should've been chasing the big names, like Jones, Johnson, Tarver, Dariuz, etc, etc.

Whether it was his fault or not, the fights never got made when they needed to, which obviously effects his legacy.



He has some great names on his resume...from Eubank when he first won the title, Kessler, Lacy, Reid, Woodhall, Lacy, Mitchell and of course, Hopkins, but you can't help feel that there's something missing.
BigG
It's because he never fought a truly great fighter in his prime and the only fighter great fighter he fought was an inactive 43 year old and he won in ugly fashion and controversially
BigG
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 12 2008, 04:02 PM) [snapback]400237[/snapback]
I like Hopkins also, but what's fair is fair. Hopkins can win in ugly fashion against Wright and grind out wins late in his career and his fans are happy. Calazghe does the same to Hopkins and gets called on it. Hopkins is a fighter who is hard to look good against. Even other fighters who have beaten him haven't looked great.


The difference is Hopkins is 43 and clearly beat Wright. Calzgahe was knocked down and arguably lost (could care less about Harold Letterman's garbage scorecard. He was the same guy who had Hatton winning 4 rounds against Mayweather)
D-MARV
I really don't like Calzaghe but he has had a great career!!! He could've fought a few names here and there but many greats have been called out on that matter. I break down his resume and see that the man is undefeated over 45 fights, fought decent fighters and a couple of very good fighters as well as Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins.( I thought Calzaghe's win over BHOP was close but clear!!!) and Hopkins, though 43, was still top 5 pound for pound! But the achievement that stands out to me is his 21 defenses of the WBO title!
all these accomplishments make him a great fighter, IMHO!


But STILL...


WAR ROY JONES JR!!!!!!!!


BigG
I am giving credit where credit is due. I said he was a great fighter. But ATG or p4p # 1? I'm sorry, Calzgahe is far from those things. Calzgahe has been overrated since beating the defensively inept Jeff Lacy. The same fans were also giving shit to Jermain Taylor for looking bad against Hopkins.
The Boxing Fan
[quote name='damarvelous1' date='Aug 12 2008, 12:26 PM' post='400240']
I really don't like Calzaghe but he has had a great career!!! He could've fought a few names here and there but many greats have been called out on that matter. I break down his resume and see that the man is undefeated over 45 fights, fought decent fighters and a couple of very good fighters as well as Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins.( I thought Calzaghe's win over BHOP was close but clear!!!) and Hopkins, though 43, was still top 5 pound for pound! But the achievement that stands out to me is his 21 defenses of the WBO title!
all these accomplishments make him a great fighter, IMHO!
But STILL...
WAR ROY JONES JR!!!!!!!!
[/quote
What exactly is being the WBO champion. Up until 3 years ago I use to look at the WBO's top ten contenders and compare it to the other sanctioning bodies and laugh. I was like what hell, who in the shit is this guy? Calzaghe is a great fighter don't get me wrong but his mandatories were garbage and a damn joke. He would never vacate to challenge another title holder or even hold on to the other belts. Thats where the damn politricking(politics) comes in because as long as he hold on to the WBO belt he is protected from purse bids and a mandatory contender that may beat him. He is also protected from being the mandatory contender to fight for one of the other belts. He and Warren could dictate terms and hand pick the "Bum of the month Club". I'm gonna go out on a limb and say i dont really think Kessler is that good. He is a B fighter at best to me. Lacy's inexperience and size(short) got him exposed. Hopkins age and lack of work Ethic and power wasn't enough. Outside of that I was asking myself, Ok what Bum is Calzaghe trying to fight today.
D-MARV
QUOTE(The Boxing Fan @ Aug 12 2008, 06:29 PM) [snapback]400279[/snapback]
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 12 2008, 12:26 PM) [snapback]400240[/snapback]

I really don't like Calzaghe but he has had a great career!!! He could've fought a few names here and there but many greats have been called out on that matter. I break down his resume and see that the man is undefeated over 45 fights, fought decent fighters and a couple of very good fighters as well as Lacy, Kessler, and Hopkins.( I thought Calzaghe's win over BHOP was close but clear!!!) and Hopkins, though 43, was still top 5 pound for pound! But the achievement that stands out to me is his 21 defenses of the WBO title!
all these accomplishments make him a great fighter, IMHO!
But STILL...
WAR ROY JONES JR!!!!!!!!

What exactly is being the WBO champion. Up until 3 years ago I use to look at the WBO's top ten contenders and compare it to the other sanctioning bodies and laugh. I was like what hell, who in the shit is this guy? Calzaghe is a great fighter don't get me wrong but his mandatories were garbage and a damn joke. He would never vacate to challenge another title holder or even hold on to the other belts. Thats where the damn politricking(politics) comes in because as long as he hold on to the WBO belt he is protected from purse bids and a mandatory contender that may beat him. He is also protected from being the mandatory contender to fight for one of the other belts. He and Warren could dictate terms and hand pick the "Bum of the month Club". I'm gonna go out on a limb and say i dont really think Kessler is that good. He is a B fighter at best to me. Lacy's inexperience and size(short) got him exposed. Hopkins age and lack of work Ethic and power wasn't enough. Outside of that I was asking myself, Ok what Bum is Calzaghe trying to fight today.

With all due respect... I think your statement is unfair. Kessler and Lacy were both undefeated fighters who have been dominating before they fought Calzaghe! Also, I know BHop wasn't in his prime form but he was still Pound for Pound and had come off victories over Tarver and Wright. I think that we are not giving Calzaghe the respect he deserves! I know his resume isn't great but hell... the man has beat everyone they put in front of him. In my eyes, I thought the Lacy victory was a great win! At the time Lacy was being compared to Mike Tyson. HE was a hard hitting youngster who many people felt was going to KO Calzaghe. Joe gets credit for that win... What Lacy has done since should not overlook the fact that Calzaghe had a lot to do with his career going down hill!
The CEO
"Lagacy" is appropriate....because his Legacy is lagging iMo...

He's a very good boxer...but his resume ain't nearly as good as his biggest fans say or think it is....the only reason he cracks the Top 100 ATGs is because he's undefeated with all those defenses....if one looks just a little deeper, and without bias, they will see his career for what it really is.....which is a quantity of wins over non quality in his backyard....he never fought or beat a Top 10 P4Per in their prime....
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 13 2008, 08:22 AM) [snapback]400345[/snapback]
What exactly is being the WBO champion. Up until 3 years ago I use to look at the WBO's top ten contenders and compare it to the other sanctioning bodies and laugh. I was like what hell, who in the shit is this guy? Calzaghe is a great fighter don't get me wrong but his mandatories were garbage and a damn joke. He would never vacate to challenge another title holder or even hold on to the other belts. Thats where the damn politricking(politics) comes in because as long as he hold on to the WBO belt he is protected from purse bids and a mandatory contender that may beat him. He is also protected from being the mandatory contender to fight for one of the other belts. He and Warren could dictate terms and hand pick the "Bum of the month Club". I'm gonna go out on a limb and say i dont really think Kessler is that good. He is a B fighter at best to me. Lacy's inexperience and size(short) got him exposed. Hopkins age and lack of work Ethic and power wasn't enough. Outside of that I was asking myself, Ok what Bum is Calzaghe trying to fight today.
With all due respect... I think your statement is unfair. Kessler and Lacy were both undefeated fighters who have been dominating before they fought Calzaghe! Also, I know BHop wasn't in his prime form but he was still Pound for Pound and had come off victories over Tarver and Wright. I think that we are not giving Calzaghe the respect he deserves! I know his resume isn't great but hell... the man has beat everyone they put in front of him. In my eyes, I thought the Lacy victory was a great win! At the time Lacy was being compared to Mike Tyson. HE was a hard hitting youngster who many people felt was going to KO Calzaghe. Joe gets credit for that win... What Lacy has done since should not overlook the fact that Calzaghe had a lot to do with his career going down hill!

You may be right in sense about Lacy. I just wonder if his wins were about anything. Kessler is a tough nut but he has fought mainly Euros. Out side of Lacy and kessler and Bhop, who else has he fought that was on quality opposition

The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Aug 13 2008, 09:06 AM) [snapback]400350[/snapback]
"Lagacy" is appropriate....because his Legacy is lagging iMo...

He's a very good boxer...but his resume ain't nearly as good as his biggest fans say or think it is....the only reason he cracks the Top 100 ATGs is because he's undefeated with all those defenses....if one looks just a little deeper, and without bias, they will see his career for what it really is.....which is a quantity of wins over non quality in his backyard....he never fought or beat a Top 10 P4Per in their prime....

thumbsup_anim.gif I may have to agree with alot of what you saying. alot of Quantityfor Calzaghe, but damn is he busy. Thats one thing i can say about the euro fighters, they throw slaps in bunches and sometimes punches in Hattons case who actually punches the whole time.
BigG
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 13 2008, 12:22 PM) [snapback]400345[/snapback]
What exactly is being the WBO champion. Up until 3 years ago I use to look at the WBO's top ten contenders and compare it to the other sanctioning bodies and laugh. I was like what hell, who in the shit is this guy? Calzaghe is a great fighter don't get me wrong but his mandatories were garbage and a damn joke. He would never vacate to challenge another title holder or even hold on to the other belts. Thats where the damn politricking(politics) comes in because as long as he hold on to the WBO belt he is protected from purse bids and a mandatory contender that may beat him. He is also protected from being the mandatory contender to fight for one of the other belts. He and Warren could dictate terms and hand pick the "Bum of the month Club". I'm gonna go out on a limb and say i dont really think Kessler is that good. He is a B fighter at best to me. Lacy's inexperience and size(short) got him exposed. Hopkins age and lack of work Ethic and power wasn't enough. Outside of that I was asking myself, Ok what Bum is Calzaghe trying to fight today.
With all due respect... I think your statement is unfair. Kessler and Lacy were both undefeated fighters who have been dominating before they fought Calzaghe! Also, I know BHop wasn't in his prime form but he was still Pound for Pound and had come off victories over Tarver and Wright. I think that we are not giving Calzaghe the respect he deserves! I know his resume isn't great but hell... the man has beat everyone they put in front of him. In my eyes, I thought the Lacy victory was a great win! At the time Lacy was being compared to Mike Tyson. HE was a hard hitting youngster who many people felt was going to KO Calzaghe. Joe gets credit for that win... What Lacy has done since should not overlook the fact that Calzaghe had a lot to do with his career going down hill!


the only thing comparable about Lacy and Tyson were physique and style. Other than that, it's an insult to Mike. Mike had better skills, better chin, better speed, better power.
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 13 2008, 04:46 PM) [snapback]400392[/snapback]
the only thing comparable about Lacy and Tyson were physique and style. Other than that, it's an insult to Mike. Mike had better skills, better chin, better speed, better power.

I
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(The Boxing Fan @ Aug 13 2008, 07:58 PM) [snapback]400414[/snapback]
I

I agree with you there
D-MARV
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 13 2008, 04:46 PM) [snapback]400392[/snapback]
the only thing comparable about Lacy and Tyson were physique and style. Other than that, it's an insult to Mike. Mike had better skills, better chin, better speed, better power.

I totally agree! The "media" was trying to make Lacy something he wasn't... but still a very good win for Calzaghe.
Mean Mister Mustard
For me Calzaghe's best win was against Kessler. I thought he won the Hopkins fight doing the only thing he could which was to outwork him. Then you have the Lacy destruction accompanied by wins over an old Eubank, SD againgst Robin Reid and a bunch of European fighters. A nice little career but nothing earth shattering.
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Aug 13 2008, 08:52 PM) [snapback]400425[/snapback]
For me Calzaghe's best win was against Kessler. I thought he won the Hopkins fight doing the only thing he could which was to outwork him. Then you have the Lacy destruction accompanied by wins over an old Eubank, SD againgst Robin Reid and a bunch of European fighters. A nice little career but nothing earth shattering.

Pretty much nailed it my friend thumbsup_anim.gif
The Boxing Fan
now Calzaghe is saying that he offered pavlik twice to fight before Pavlik blew up? Hmm thats interesting considering I'm not to sure Calzaghe will be Roy.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE(The Boxing Fan @ Aug 15 2008, 06:41 AM) [snapback]400690[/snapback]
now Calzaghe is saying that he offered pavlik twice to fight before Pavlik blew up? Hmm thats interesting considering I'm not to sure Calzaghe will be Roy.


Calzaghe will beat Roy because Roy is shot. Don't let his fake win over Tito fool you, Roy is shot and I'm pretty sure Calslappy will actually stop him, his high velocity of 'windmill handbag' shots doing Roy in.

Roy can't deal with pressure anymore.

For the record in their respective primes Roy has time to wave to his mum, make a cheese sandwich and fine tune his facial hair while STILL handing Joe a ferocious beating. The problem with this is Roy is about 5 years removed from his prime and his descent from said prime has been a marked one.

I mean some guys slowly descend from their primes, (think Toney or B-Hop), but Roy well he took the magic mountain ride down from his prime.



The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Aug 15 2008, 09:38 AM) [snapback]400697[/snapback]
Calzaghe will beat Roy because Roy is shot. Don't let his fake win over Tito fool you, Roy is shot and I'm pretty sure Calslappy will actually stop him, his high velocity of 'windmill handbag' shots doing Roy in.

Roy can't deal with pressure anymore.

For the record in their respective primes Roy has time to wave to his mum, make a cheese sandwich and fine tune his facial hair while STILL handing Joe a ferocious beating. The problem with this is Roy is about 5 years removed from his prime and his descent from said prime has been a marked one.

I mean some guys slowly descend from their primes, (think Toney or B-Hop), but Roy well he took the magic mountain ride down from his prime.

you think so eh, hmmm We'll have so see
blackbelt2003
Many people seem to hang on Calzaghe's million WBO title defences as proof of his legacy...boy, if that ain't misleading.


Look, truth of the matter is, Calzaghe has had THREE world title fights. One against Lacy, one against Bika and one against Kessler.


All those 'WBO' title fights count for nothing, because there's a million WBO champs in history with a zillion title defences. If you're going to start counting the WBO as a credible body it changes the whole face of boxing. It means Mike Tyson was never undisputed champion (because some Italian troll held the WBO title), it means Herbie Hide was a two time heavyweight champion (biggrin.gif), it means the only undisputed champion since 1988 has been Bernard Hopkins, it means Dariusz Michalczewski is one of the greatest light-heavyweights in history and it means Hewnry Akinwande-Scott Welch, probably the worst 12 rounder in history, was for a world title.


C'mon, guys, if we're gonna start recognising the WBO belt, what's next? The IBO? The WBU?

And to say Calzaghe-Hopkins was for the World Light-heavyweight Title is even more of a joke. How freely are we gonna accord 'world title status' to something? It's killing boxing!



Like I said, Calzaghe has had three world title fights, and that's not the stuff legends are made of.




Black
STEVENSKI
Blackbelt's midlands arse hates Taffs laugh.gif . They speak funny as well.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 16 2008, 11:51 AM) [snapback]400820[/snapback]
I slightly disagree. I do think the fight was to be recognised as the top dog at light heavy though. As it went Calazghe>Hopkins>Tarver>Jones. I do think there is some merit to that claim.



You can take a line from Jones to Tarver to Hopkins to Calzaghe, but linear titles are different from world titles, or else Shannon Briggs would have been one. Anyway, if you're looking at it that way then Zsolt Erdei is the linear champ, not Calzaghe. Or, in fact, you could say the linear title ended when Archie Moore retired.

For me, the fact that Hopkins-Wright and Hopkins-Calzaghe were supposed 'world titles' tells us why a magazine shouldn't get in on the sanctioning act.

If the WBC had nominated Hopkins-Wright for their light-heavyweight belt, Ring would have caned them for it.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Aug 16 2008, 11:59 AM) [snapback]400822[/snapback]
Blackbelt's midlands arse hates Taffs laugh.gif . They speak funny as well.



I don't hate the Welsh, I just think they are vastly inferior to the rest of Western civilisation. And Eastern. And the Third World. And most of the animal kingdom. They're probably on a par, intelligence-wise, with advanced bacteria, but less deadly.



Black
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(blackbelt2003 @ Aug 16 2008, 09:59 AM) [snapback]400836[/snapback]
I don't hate the Welsh, I just think they are vastly inferior to the rest of Western civilisation. And Eastern. And the Third World. And most of the animal kingdom. They're probably on a par, intelligence-wise, with advanced bacteria, but less deadly.
Black

wow dude, thats was harsh black eye.gif
Asian Sensation
Whatever his legacy is now, I doubt he'd try to do anything risky to enhance it now. He's just getting old and he knows it.

I think he has a good legacy, he just will never get the respect and recognition of Americans because of his reluctance to come over early in his career. Not until the Lacy and Kessler fights did he get that one defining fight. I think he has cemented his reputation as the best 168-pounder ever. That said, 168 hasn't had many great wars to enhance it's image.
The Boxing Fan
QUOTE(Asian Sensation @ Aug 16 2008, 05:52 PM) [snapback]400883[/snapback]
Whatever his legacy is now, I doubt he'd try to do anything risky to enhance it now. He's just getting old and he knows it.

I think he has a good legacy, he just will never get the respect and recognition of Americans because of his reluctance to come over early in his career. Not until the Lacy and Kessler fights did he get that one defining fight. I think he has cemented his reputation as the best 168-pounder ever. That said, 168 hasn't had many great wars to enhance it's image.


Good pointz
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(The Boxing Fan @ Aug 16 2008, 10:08 PM) [snapback]400879[/snapback]
wow dude, thats was harsh black eye.gif



LOL, it's all good, I'm playing around. I love the Welsh really.


Black
streetlion1
Calzaghe really has no legacy as far as America is concerned and the caliber of competion he has faced (-Hopkins) was average at best...just another paper pound 4 pound champion.
BigG
Neither were P4P king after that fight. IMHO Hopkins won (6-5-1) but showed his age. The P4P kings are CLEARLY..Pacquiao and Marquez.


SLAPPY will never be an all time great unless he beats Chad Dawson and Kelly Pavlik (both are young and have a legit shot to beat him). If he decides to retire from boxing after the Roy fight then fuck him I wont miss him and his slappy flurries. Calzgahe's legacy is defending his belt against uknowns..beating an old ass Eubank, "beating" Hopkins, beating a very medicore champ in Jeff Lacy, and then beating a B fighter in Kessler.

JonnyBlaze
Calzaghe is a great fighter and he has had some wins over lesser opponents but I think his lagacy will be a good one..He's never lost,throws a lot of punches that are thrown wisely and not just swinging away on guys..After seeing the sneaky right hand B-Hop floored him with,I'm wondering what's going to happen in the Roy fight..Calzaghe in my opinion is not overrated at all..He has worked sooo hard to be where he is,none of it was given to him like in the case of Roy's insane natural ability..Calzaghe is #2 P4P easy..
maac
It is incredible how Calzaghe has been discredited in this forum (when it has been seen
Hopkins be demanded in that way, not anymore a 'Buda' in total control,
more well puffing and breathing heavily, preocuped, in those final rounds);
for those that likes an trained eye, enjoy the following read (anyways about other topic,
but that touches the actual):

Pavlik - Hopkins - Be ready to be excited
streetlion1
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 17 2008, 08:59 PM) [snapback]400970[/snapback]
Hmmmmmmm
But by beating Calazghe, this 'average paper' pound for pound champion was going to become #1 king if he was able to beat Calazghe? Just wondering smile.gif

Hopkins would've had to be placed up there had he won based on his past few fights which were all against better comp then Cal. has faced his whole career. 2 questionable "losses" to Taylor then Whooping Tarver and outboxing Wright. My prediction for the fight didnt happen but what I saw was a victory for Bernard Hopkins. I do feel B-Hop could've stopped him if he had listened to Roach when he told him to start being the aggressor and walk Cal. down......Calzaghe's legacy is that of a well-handled fighter who fought average competition (-Hopkins).
ROLL DEEP
Calzaghes resume and legacy is GOOD imo.


Above average, below great....It's good. He has got some decent names on there and has beaten everyone he's faced. At that level of boxing, it deserves credit. To stay champ for so long and have no L's on his record is a good feat.

But, obviously, there ARE names missing for one reason or another from his record, which does harm his legacy.

I think his legacy is good.

GMAN73
QUOTE(The Boxing Fan @ Aug 10 2008, 10:45 PM) [snapback]400009[/snapback]
what about Liles and Nunn and the other 168s before Kessler and Lacy. He would never challenge any of the other 168s until Lacy and Kessler. I just wonder if he was protected also. He would never challenge his Light Heavyweight counterpart Dariuz. That would have been a big European Fan fare fight.


First off Liles beat Nunn in 1994 and was totally used up by 1999 when he got KO'd by Byron Mitchell. JC beat Eubank in 1998 as did one Sven Ottke, they never met and for all intent's and purpose's it was Ottke avoiding Calzaghe.

Michaelchewski and/or Ottke never wanted anything to do with each other until 2008, and really didn't want any part of Calzaghe.

Calzaghe is a true top tier fighter, plus he is a lefty, fast and has a solid chin. A ton of guys with his attribute's have been ducked and dodged throughout the years. Now, all of a sudden because he is wildly popular(somewhat) RJJ and Hopkins wanted to fight him, but if anyone know's JC's history, RJJ and B-Hop didn't want to fight from 2000-2005, And I can't blame them, they were legitimate household names', and Cal was a mainstream nobody.

Guy like Joe Calzaghe do not duck people. nono.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE(GMAN73 @ Aug 24 2008, 02:17 PM) [snapback]401733[/snapback]
First off Liles beat Nunn in 1994 and was totally used up by 1999 when he got KO'd by Byron Mitchell. JC beat Eubank in 1998 as did one Sven Ottke, they never met and for all intent's and purpose's it was Ottke avoiding Calzaghe.

Michaelchewski and/or Ottke never wanted anything to do with each other until 2008, and really didn't want any part of Calzaghe.

Calzaghe is a true top tier fighter, plus he is a lefty, fast and has a solid chin. A ton of guys with his attribute's have been ducked and dodged throughout the years. Now, all of a sudden because he is wildly popular(somewhat) RJJ and Hopkins wanted to fight him, but if anyone know's JC's history, RJJ and B-Hop didn't want to fight from 2000-2005, And I can't blame them, they were legitimate household names', and Cal was a mainstream nobody.

Guy like Joe Calzaghe do not duck people. nono.gif

I think you're giving JC too much props!!!!!

First of all he does not have a solid chin... Maybe a good one but not solid, I seen him hurt or stunned in many fights but he does have good recovery!

Secondly, Please don't start saying that BHOP nor RJJ wanted nothing to do with JC, cuz that is you're opinion and you dont have the facts to back that up!!!!!
GMAN73
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 24 2008, 01:27 PM) [snapback]401736[/snapback]
I think you're giving JC too much props!!!!!

First of all he does not have a solid chin... Maybe a good one but not solid, I seen him hurt or stunned in many fights but he does have good recovery!

Secondly, Please don't start saying that BHOP nor RJJ wanted nothing to do with JC, cuz that is you're opinion and you dont have the facts to back that up!!!!!



First off:The guy is 45-0 and no matter what you say, or believe that is a fact, period!

What is your opinion of a solid chin? This guy has been fighting at the championship level for over a decade, and he has been down 2-3 times. I think that could be classified as solid. Probably a little better than RJJ but a little weaker than B-Hop. Keep in mind buddy, you don't make 21 defense's being "chinny". nono.gif

I am a much bigger Hopkins/Jones fan than I am a Calzaghe fan so I give credit where credit is due, but Hopkins and Jones are impossible to deal with now and were even more so when Calzaghe was clamoring for a fight with each of them in the early 2000's.

RJJ didn't even want Hopkins from 1993 on, and I still think he want's to take that chance ever again. haha.gif

D-MARV
QUOTE(GMAN73 @ Aug 24 2008, 02:39 PM) [snapback]401738[/snapback]
First off:The guy is 45-0 and no matter what you say, or believe that is a fact, period!

What is your opinion of a solid chin? This guy has been fighting at the championship level for over a decade, and he has been down 2-3 times. I think that could be classified as solid. Probably a little better than RJJ but a little weaker than B-Hop. Keep in mind buddy, you don't make 21 defense's being "chinny". nono.gif

I am a much bigger Hopkins/Jones fan than I am a Calzaghe fan so I give credit where credit is due, but Hopkins and Jones are impossible to deal with now and were even more so when Calzaghe was clamoring for a fight with each of them in the early 2000's.

RJJ didn't even want Hopkins from 1993 on, and I still think he want's to take that chance ever again. haha.gif

45-0 is a fact!!! what are you trying to say here??? I never said that he has been beaten before...

When I think of Solid chins, I think of guys like Margarito and Chavez... The fact that Calzaghe has only been down 2 or 3 times is due to his underrated defense, lack of top opposition and his superior activity, that keeps his opponents busy trying to avoid his punches. Everytime I have seen Calzaghe hit flush by a solid puncher he appeared to be stunned!

I agree that RJJ and BHop are impossible to deal with but does that mean they were backing down from Calzaghe??? I dont think so, Do you?


GMAN73
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 24 2008, 03:04 PM) [snapback]401744[/snapback]
45-0 is a fact!!! what are you trying to say here??? I never said that he has been beaten before...

When I think of Solid chins, I think of guys like Margarito and Chavez... The fact that Calzaghe has only been down 2 or 3 times is due to his underrated defense, lack of top opposition and his superior activity, that keeps his opponents busy trying to avoid his punches. Everytime I have seen Calzaghe hit flush by a solid puncher he appeared to be stunned!

I agree that RJJ and BHop are impossible to deal with but does that mean they were backing down from Calzaghe??? I dont think so, Do you?



What I meant in my reply: is that when a guy is 45-0 and was a brilliant amateur as well, any props he receives are well deserved. Not that you stated he had lost, My comment was on giving him too much credit.

Margarito needs his chin, because anything less, with his skill set would make him a knockout waiting to happen. Plus his stamina is extraordinary, and like I just stated, without the stamina he'd be a TKO waiting to happen.
Chavez's chin was one of many qualities he possessed that was superior to most of his opponents.

Anyone can be rocked, I said solid chin, I believe? Not supernatural like Hagler or LaMotta or Holyfield. Solid.

I never, ever use the word's backing down. I think promoters, sanctioning bodies, lawyers, agents and money really get in the way of some great fights.

If you notice my username(GMAN73) it is in homage to a fighter who travelled abroad and pretty much gave up his life because of what seemed to be foulplay. So RJJ and Hopkins not going to Europe, and JC not crossing the ocean is totally acceptable in my eyes. Your safety and life is on the line in boxing, and if you don't look out for your best interests, no one will. ok.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE(GMAN73 @ Aug 24 2008, 10:55 PM) [snapback]401789[/snapback]
What I meant in my reply: is that when a guy is 45-0 and was a brilliant amateur as well, any props he receives are well deserved. Not that you stated he had lost, My comment was on giving him too much credit.

Margarito needs his chin, because anything less, with his skill set would make him a knockout waiting to happen. Plus his stamina is extraordinary, and like I just stated, without the stamina he'd be a TKO waiting to happen.
Chavez's chin was one of many qualities he possessed that was superior to most of his opponents.

Anyone can be rocked, I said solid chin, I believe? Not supernatural like Hagler or LaMotta or Holyfield. Solid.

I never, ever use the word's backing down. I think promoters, sanctioning bodies, lawyers, agents and money really get in the way of some great fights.

If you notice my username(GMAN73) it is in homage to a fighter who travelled abroad and pretty much gave up his life because of what seemed to be foulplay. So RJJ and Hopkins not going to Europe, and JC not crossing the ocean is totally acceptable in my eyes. Your safety and life is on the line in boxing, and if you don't look out for your best interests, no one will. ok.gif

Gotcha!!!

By the way... I do think Calzaghe has had a great career and deserves any recognition he gets. I still believe his chin is a little suspect. Im eager to find out what happens "if" RJJ can land a flush punch on him.
GMAN73
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 24 2008, 10:03 PM) [snapback]401792[/snapback]
Gotcha!!!

By the way... I do think Calzaghe has had a great career and deserves any recognition he gets. I still believe his chin is a little suspect. Im eager to find out what happens "if" RJJ can land a flush punch on him.


You know if RJJ lands flush on anyone they might be in trouble dntknw.gif . I know JC isn't the prettiest puncher out there, but in big fights(I don't count Hopkins because he makes everyone fight his fight)He seems to be a lot straighter and authorotative with his shots.
Plus they are both fleet of hand and foot, which doesn't bode well for clean punching.
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