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BigG
I'm sure Margarito and Willimas have to make the lists now that Cotto's been KO'd..this is how I have it.

In your opinion what should be the P4P list?

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3a. Bernard Hopkins
3b. Joe Calzgahe
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Kelly Pavlik
7. Fernando Montiel
8. Paul Williams
9. Antonio Margarito
10. Miguel Cotto
11. Rafael Marquez
12. Ivan Calderon
13. Joel Casamayor
14. Cristian Mijares
15. Nonito Donaire
16. Jermain Taylor
17. Shane Mosley
18. Gerry Penalosa
19. Joan Guzman
20. Antonio Tarver

Next ten: Chad Dawson, Juan Manuel Lopez, Arthur Abraham, Ricky Hatton, Vic StarCHINNYan, Joshua Clottey, Jorge Arce, Chris John, Glen Johnson, Nate Campbell
STEVENSKI
1) Danny Williamz
2) Danny Williamz
3) Danny Williamz
4) Danny Williamz
5) Danny Williamz
6) Danny Williamz
7) Danny Williamz
8) Danny Williamz
9) Danny Williamz
10) Danny Williamz

Westside
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 17 2008, 10:03 PM) [snapback]400982[/snapback]
I'm sure Margarito and Willimas have to make the lists now that Cotto's been KO'd..this is how I have it.

In your opinion what should be the P4P list?

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquezs
3a. Bernard Hopkins
3b. Joe Calzgahe
5. Israel Vazquez
6. Kelly Pavlik
7. Fernando Montiel
8. Paul Williams
9. Antonio Margarito
10. Miguel Cotto
11. Rafael Marquez
12. Ivan Calderon
13. Joel Casamayor
14. Cristian Mijares
15. Nonito Donaire
16. Jermain Taylor
17. Shane Mosley
18. Gerry Penalosa
19. Joan Guzman
20. Antonio Tarver

Next ten: Chad Dawson, Juan Manuel Lopez, Arthur Abraham, Ricky Hatton, Vic StarCHINNYan, Joshua Clottey, Jorge Arce, Chris John, Glen Johnson, Nate Campbell

This is a crazy list Biggeorge..Some is accurate and some I don't know how they got there..Here is my list though of the top 10..I bet it could change as quickly as tomorrow but here is my top 10 TODAY..
1)Manny Pacquiao
2)Joe Calzaghe---how is B-Hop rated the same as Cal. in your top 10??He just lost to Cal.
3)Israel Vasquez
4)Juan Manuel Marquez
5)Bernard Hopkins
6)Kelly Pavlik
7)Paul Williams
8)Antonio Margarito
9)Christian Mijares
10)Joel Casamayor
slap
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Aug 18 2008, 09:29 PM) [snapback]401116[/snapback]
This is a crazy list Biggeorge..Some is accurate and some I don't know how they got there..Here is my list though of the top 10..I bet it could change as quickly as tomorrow but here is my top 10 TODAY..
1)Manny Pacquiao
2)Joe Calzaghe---how is B-Hop rated the same as Cal. in your top 10??He just lost to Cal.
3)Israel Vasquez
4)Juan Manuel Marquez
5)Bernard Hopkins
6)Kelly Pavlik
7)Paul Williams
8)Antonio Margarito
9)Christian Mijares
10)Joel Casamayor


yeah dudws list was crazy my top 10
1.MANNY PACQUIAO
2.MIGUEL COTTO(EVEN THOUGH HE WAS BROKEN DOWN EVERY BODY KNOWS IF THEY FIGHT AGAIN HE WILL WIN)
3.JOE CALZAGHE
4.KELLY PAVLIK
5.JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
6.PAUL WILLIAMS
7.ISRAEL VASQUEZ
8.RICKY HATTON
9.ANTONIO MARGARITO
10.SHANE MOSLEY
FIVE MORE WHO COULD BE HERE. WINKY WRIGHT JERMAIN TAYLOR JOAN GUZMAN CHRISTIAN MIJARES OSCAR DE LA HOYA
BigG
laugh.gif Well I think my list is good. Who do you guys think shouldn't be on there?

To answer your question I had Hopkins beating Calzgahe in a close fight that could have gone either way. Before that fight I had Hopkins ahead of Calzaghe in the P4P list.

Fitz its just that time again we need a P4P list thread every 2 months or something.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(slap @ Aug 19 2008, 07:59 PM) [snapback]401212[/snapback]
yeah dudws list was crazy my top 10
1.MANNY PACQUIAO
2.MIGUEL COTTO(EVEN THOUGH HE WAS BROKEN DOWN EVERY BODY KNOWS IF THEY FIGHT AGAIN HE WILL WIN)
3.JOE CALZAGHE
4.KELLY PAVLIK
5.JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
6.PAUL WILLIAMS
7.ISRAEL VASQUEZ
8.RICKY HATTON
9.ANTONIO MARGARITO
10.SHANE MOSLEY
FIVE MORE WHO COULD BE HERE. WINKY WRIGHT JERMAIN TAYLOR JOAN GUZMAN CHRISTIAN MIJARES OSCAR DE LA HOYA

Cotto number 2??Cotto might not even be the same guy anymore after the loss he just had..He gave in to Margarito..Fighters who can give up once will always know they can again since they already had before..This isn't the case for all fighters and in Cotto's position,it was needed for him to do that otherwise he could of ended up dead possibly from all the flush punches he kept gettin hit with during those last few rounds..Margarito would destroy him if they ever fought again since Cotto knows what Margarito is all about in my opinion..How is Shane Mosley 10 and Ricky Hatton 8 in your opinion??Ricky Hatton is top 20 no doubt,but I don't think he is top 10 anymore..I am also a huge Shane Mosley fan and would like for him to be in the top 10 but only see him as a top 20 now a days..How could Winky Wright by in the top 10 still??He hasn't fought for a long ass time and inactivity leads to getting dropped to lower rankings in my opinion..I'm not tryin to get at ya(you'd really know if I was),but I'm curious how ya decided on these guys as top 10 P4P in all of boxing now..When I think about it,I do agree with your placing of Kelly Pavlik..B-Hop def. should be behind him on my list since I do think B-Hop is going to lose to him..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 19 2008, 08:02 PM) [snapback]401213[/snapback]
laugh.gif Well I think my list is good. Who do you guys think shouldn't be on there?

To answer your question I had Hopkins beating Calzgahe in a close fight that could have gone either way. Before that fight I had Hopkins ahead of Calzaghe in the P4P list.

Fitz its just that time again we need a P4P list thread every 2 months or something.

There are a couple people who I think should be placed differently in your top 10..Everyone you named in your top 20 should be in the top 20 but like I said,the placing would be different for me..As for top 20,Antonio Tarver would be a little higher on my list,but not too much higher.. Fernando Montiel should be top 20,not top 10 yet..His skill is amazing but he needs to get some bigger names I think to get into the top 10..I also don't know about Marquez being number 2..I Pac-man and Calzaghe are 1 and 2,no doubt..Marquez is 3 or 4 though..I had problems on deciding whether Vasquez or Marquez should be number 3..I do like Marquez more personally but Vasquez just won one of the best trilogies in boxing..So I guess your list isn't really too "crazy",I just would of placed some guys differently..
BigG
Marquez to me is better than Calzgahe. Marquez has a clear win over Barrera and IMO beat Pac at least once.

Calzgahe beat Jeff Lacy, a "B" fighter in Kessler and won a highly disputed over Hopkins.

Montiel is one of the most complete fighters in the world today and he is the best at 115 IMO.
blackbelt2003
Blackbelt's official list (NB this replaces anyone else's attempt at a p4p list. For future reference, all enquiries to p4p lists should be directed to this post)


1/ Manny PACQUIAO
Who else could it be? Quite obviously the best in the entire world, and his last performance against Diaz was the eye popper all p4p performers tend to have on their record.

2/ Joe CALZAGHE
Seeing Joe do the business now makes me mad that he left it so long. How could would Joe have been had he fought the best 10 years ago, instead of waiting? But, still, you can't grumble at dominant performance in p4p types Kessler and Hopkins.

3/ Juan Manuel MARQUEZ
Quite obviously one of the very best, but inconsistent. One day he'll beat Pac (but get a draw on the cards) the next he'll lose to Chris John. Then he'll go and spank Barrera, and then walk into a Pac-bomb (although it was still a close fight). With a bit more consistency, he'd be a shoe-in for the top spot.

4/ Kelly PAVLIK
Looking at Kelly's record, you wouldn't think of him as a p4p top 5'er...but seriously, who can you put above him? You can't put Hopkins, seen as B-Hop lost twice to Jermain Taylor, who Pavlik has beaten twice. You can't put Winky Wright for a similar reason. Of course, that unbeaten record and his middleweight title help a fair bit, too.

5/ Bernard HOPKINS
What does it say about the overall quality of this era when a middle aged guy who is 2-3-0 in his last five fights cracks the top 5 p4p? But every loss has been disputed, and in between he's beaten fringe p4p'ers in Wright and Tarver. You never know, he might go and add another name when he takes on Pavlik next, too.

6/ Antonio MARGARITO
That turbo charged, full powered performance over Cotto did wonders for the Mexican tough-guy. In fact, had Margarito not scraped by Clottey and been outhustled by Williams a few fights ago he'd be pushing for one of the top spots. He might still do it, too, if he can improve next time out against Clottey and get a DLH fight.

7/ Oscar DE LA HOYA
Mock if you like at putting a semi-retired 90's star with a patchy recent record in the top ten, but as I keep saying...who you gonna put above him? He nearly beat Mayweather, for chrissakes! Even after all this time, I feel comfortable saying Oscar De La Hoya is one of the best fighters in the entire world.

8/ Israel VAZQUEZ
I've been wanting to put Vazquez in the top ten since he first won his super-bantam title a few years ago. With that magnificent trilogy against Marquez, and a handful of other impressive wins over Gonzalez and Larios, I finally can. Roll on Vazquez-Marquez IV!!!

9/ Chris JOHN
In direct contrast with the above spot, I've been wanting to avoid putting John in the top ten...but how can I when he holds a win over JM Marquez? Even if you go with the view that John was lucky, it was a hellishly close contest anyway, and anyone who takes Marquez to the wire is clearly a top ten p4p guy. I wish he'd prove it a little more often.

10/ Cristian MIJARES
He may be unfashionable, and many of us may be secretly rooting for Montiel or Arce to beat him, but you can't argue with results, and the fact that Mijares has unified two of the three super-fly belts, beaten Arce and also decisioned the highly regarded Alex Munoz is damned good going. He's the most proven talent from bantamweight down.

11/ Paul WILLIAMS
12/ Ricky HATTON
13/ Miguel COTTO
14/ Jermain TAYLOR
15/ Nate CAMPBELL
16/ Rafael MARQUEZ
17/ Mikkel KESSLER
18/ Joel CASAMAYOR
19/ Shane MOSLEY
20/ David HAYE




Black
D-MARV
Very Good List except you have Oscar ranked way too high!
BigG
Black, I'd have Montiel in there instead of Kessler. Montiel's beaten way better comp...
blackbelt2003
I dunno, George, Montiel has been hot and cold. He's gone life and death with some below par opponents, and has also LOST to worse opponents than Kessler's, too.


I don't think he can go on there until he's fought Mijares.



Black
The CEO
QUOTE(blackbelt2003 @ Aug 22 2008, 07:43 AM) [snapback]401482[/snapback]
Blackbelt's official list (NB this replaces anyone else's attempt at a p4p list. For future reference, all enquiries to p4p lists should be directed to this post)
1/ Manny PACQUIAO
Who else could it be? Quite obviously the best in the entire world, and his last performance against Diaz was the eye popper all p4p performers tend to have on their record.

2/ Joe CALZAGHE
Seeing Joe do the business now makes me mad that he left it so long. How could would Joe have been had he fought the best 10 years ago, instead of waiting? But, still, you can't grumble at dominant performance in p4p types Kessler and Hopkins.

3/ Juan Manuel MARQUEZ
Quite obviously one of the very best, but inconsistent. One day he'll beat Pac (but get a draw on the cards) the next he'll lose to Chris John. Then he'll go and spank Barrera, and then walk into a Pac-bomb (although it was still a close fight). With a bit more consistency, he'd be a shoe-in for the top spot.

4/ Kelly PAVLIK
Looking at Kelly's record, you wouldn't think of him as a p4p top 5'er...but seriously, who can you put above him? You can't put Hopkins, seen as B-Hop lost twice to Jermain Taylor, who Pavlik has beaten twice. You can't put Winky Wright for a similar reason. Of course, that unbeaten record and his middleweight title help a fair bit, too.

5/ Bernard HOPKINS
What does it say about the overall quality of this era when a middle aged guy who is 2-3-0 in his last five fights cracks the top 5 p4p? But every loss has been disputed, and in between he's beaten fringe p4p'ers in Wright and Tarver. You never know, he might go and add another name when he takes on Pavlik next, too.

6/ Antonio MARGARITO
That turbo charged, full powered performance over Cotto did wonders for the Mexican tough-guy. In fact, had Margarito not scraped by Clottey and been outhustled by Williams a few fights ago he'd be pushing for one of the top spots. He might still do it, too, if he can improve next time out against Clottey and get a DLH fight.

7/ Oscar DE LA HOYA
Mock if you like at putting a semi-retired 90's star with a patchy recent record in the top ten, but as I keep saying...who you gonna put above him? He nearly beat Mayweather, for chrissakes! Even after all this time, I feel comfortable saying Oscar De La Hoya is one of the best fighters in the entire world.

8/ Israel VAZQUEZ
I've been wanting to put Vazquez in the top ten since he first won his super-bantam title a few years ago. With that magnificent trilogy against Marquez, and a handful of other impressive wins over Gonzalez and Larios, I finally can. Roll on Vazquez-Marquez IV!!!

9/ Chris JOHN
In direct contrast with the above spot, I've been wanting to avoid putting John in the top ten...but how can I when he holds a win over JM Marquez? Even if you go with the view that John was lucky, it was a hellishly close contest anyway, and anyone who takes Marquez to the wire is clearly a top ten p4p guy. I wish he'd prove it a little more often.

10/ Cristian MIJARES
He may be unfashionable, and many of us may be secretly rooting for Montiel or Arce to beat him, but you can't argue with results, and the fact that Mijares has unified two of the three super-fly belts, beaten Arce and also decisioned the highly regarded Alex Munoz is damned good going. He's the most proven talent from bantamweight down.

11/ Paul WILLIAMS
12/ Ricky HATTON
13/ Miguel COTTO
14/ Jermain TAYLOR
15/ Nate CAMPBELL
16/ Mikkel KESSLER
17/ Joel CASAMAYOR
18/ Shane MOSLEY
19/ David HAYE
20/ Antonio TARVER
Black



This is the worst list I have ever seen.




CEO
The CEO
lol....you know I'm messin' with ya...although I do disagree with several of the positions....
salvador
1.) Pacquiao
2.) Pavlik
3.) Williams
4.) Wlad
5.) Margarito
6.) Calzaghe
7.) JMM
8.) Vasquez
9.) Haye
10.) Campbell
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 22 2008, 07:00 AM) [snapback]401484[/snapback]
Very Good List except you have Oscar ranked way too high!



Where would you put DLH?
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Aug 22 2008, 01:10 PM) [snapback]401505[/snapback]
Where would you put DLH?


in a body bag.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(blackbelt2003 @ Aug 22 2008, 06:43 AM) [snapback]401482[/snapback]
7/ Oscar DE LA HOYA
Mock if you like at putting a semi-retired 90's star with a patchy recent record in the top ten, but as I keep saying...who you gonna put above him? He nearly beat Mayweather, for chrissakes! Even after all this time, I feel comfortable saying Oscar De La Hoya is one of the best fighters in the entire world.

Oscar was no where near close to beating Floyd..Hatton had a way better performance against Floyd before he got KO'ed than DLH did in 12 rounds..DLH was throwing worthless flurries against Floyd that did nothing..The stuff DLH did against Floyd looked ok the first time ya watch the fight but if you watch it again you'll see how dominated he got..People were going crazy for Oscar when he was being completely ineffective..It's kinda funny how a crowd going crazy for him when he was throwing punches that weren't landing could make the judges score rounds for him..DLH is a way better fighter than Hatton skill wise,but DLH fought Floyd the wrong way and he admitted it too..Oscar had a chance to win if he had never stopped jabbing,which is his best offensive weapon..His left hook(second best weapon) finishes people but when Oscar jabs a lot there aren't many guys who can compete with him..Oscar knows if he would have jabbed more and stuck to his game plan and not wasted so many useless punches he had a chance..When Floyd is on the ropes,he is just like Ali,it's stupid to throw too many shots at him if he is in a defensive/counter punching mode..Oscar let Floyd counter him time and time again on the ropes..DLH will always be great because of the boxing skills he has..Ya can lose speed and relexes but ya don't lose boxing skill(B-Hop,Holyfield,DLH,Ali,Holmes)..You won't be as great as you were without the speed,reflexes,and all the other stuff but your skill will always keep you competitive..
BigG
Black, you actually have a point about Oscar. I don't rate him because he really hasn't had a big win in how many years? But skillwise he is STILL one of the best alive today and he can still beat anyone around his weight class with the exception of Margarito and Cotto, IMO.
D-MARV
QUOTE(ROLL DEEP @ Aug 22 2008, 01:10 PM) [snapback]401505[/snapback]
Where would you put DLH?

Top 20, maybe top 15, but not top 10!!!! What has he done in the last 5 years to make him a pound for pound fighter?

I don't think the mayweather fight was that close, I had Mayweather winning 9 to 3
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Why is there never any love for Ivan Calderon?
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Aug 23 2008, 05:45 AM) [snapback]401592[/snapback]
Top 20, maybe top 15, but not top 10!!!! What has he done in the last 5 years to make him a pound for pound fighter?

I don't think the mayweather fight was that close, I had Mayweather winning 9 to 3



Depends on what you want from a p4p list. Is it about 'who has done the most in the last two years?' or is it 'pound for pound who is the best fighter?'.

If it's the former, you're right, all DLH has done lately is beaten up on Mayorga and ran Mayweather close (and consensus opinion is that it WAS close, regardless of your own personal view).

If it's the latter, DLH is comfortably one of the ten best fighters in the world right now.



Black
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Aug 23 2008, 07:27 AM) [snapback]401601[/snapback]
Why is there never any love for Ivan Calderon?




Because Ivan Calderon has never won a legit world title and has never beaten a legit world champ.


His best wins are over faded former titlists and Hugo Cazares, who is no great shakes himself. How can you be a p4p guy when you haven't attempted to fight the best in your divisions?

Yutaka Niida, Edgar Sosa, Ulises Solis, Muhammad Rachman, Oleydong Sithyodthong...Calderon has passed all of these guys up, whereas guys like Vazquez, Mijares, Campbell and other bottom end p4p guys have consistently sought out the other titlists.



Black
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE(blackbelt2003 @ Aug 23 2008, 05:04 AM) [snapback]401605[/snapback]
Because Ivan Calderon has never won a legit world title and has never beaten a legit world champ.
His best wins are over faded former titlists and Hugo Cazares, who is no great shakes himself. How can you be a p4p guy when you haven't attempted to fight the best in your divisions?

Yutaka Niida, Edgar Sosa, Ulises Solis, Muhammad Rachman, Oleydong Sithyodthong...Calderon has passed all of these guys up, whereas guys like Vazquez, Mijares, Campbell and other bottom end p4p guys have consistently sought out the other titlists.
Black


Well I like him. What is it something like 14 defences of his title. Legit or not (in your eyes) you still have to go out and defend the title. It never fails to amaze me how many quality fighters slip up and lose to someone they shouldn't lose to.

It is also why I begrudgingly give Joe Cal his props, because although he didn't fight top top quality opposition until recently he still went out and defended his title year in and year out without ever having a 'bad'night. And by bad night I mean a night where he had a shock loss, he always found a way to win. And that to me is an accomplishment in itself.

So if Oscar is good enough to make some people's top 10 Iron Boy is good enough to make mine.

blackbelt2003
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Aug 23 2008, 01:15 PM) [snapback]401607[/snapback]
Well I like him. What is it something like 14 defences of his title. Legit or not (in your eyes) you still have to go out and defend the title. It never fails to amaze me how many quality fighters slip up and lose to someone they shouldn't lose to.

It is also why I begrudgingly give Joe Cal his props, because although he didn't fight top top quality opposition until recently he still went out and defended his title year in and year out without ever having a 'bad'night. And by bad night I mean a night where he had a shock loss, he always found a way to win. And that to me is an accomplishment in itself.

So if Oscar is good enough to make some people's top 10 Iron Boy is good enough to make mine.



I hear you, bro, goign undefeated takes some doing, and for Calz and Cald to do so over such a long time means they are damned good fighters....but I'd rather go with the tried and tested guys, who maybe HAVE lost a few, but against a higher quality of opposition.

And remember Mijares has gone unbeaten as super-fly champ, too, but against the very best in the division and with a real, recognised world belt rather than a spurious WBO one. Remember, there was a Thai fighter (Something Dutchboygym), who went unbeaten in 20-odd defences of the WBF belt. Should he be on there?



Black
D-MARV
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 23 2008, 01:34 AM) [snapback]401598[/snapback]
I strongly disagree. Hatton didn't do well against Mayweather at all. I just remember him holding his own for a couple of rounds and then seeing him get his head snapped back violently for the rest if the fight. Got the shit beat out of him hard (like Gatti-Mayweather hard) in like round 7 or 8. Mayweather then finished him off soon later.
The difference was that Mayweather embarassed Hatton, while many fans felt Mayweather embarassed himself against Oscar.

Hatton nor Oscar did very well against Mayweather! Hatton was outclassed by the more superior boxer and Oscar was punching gloves all night. I can count on one hand how many punches Oscar landed flush on "Money" and only 1 punch in the whole fight had any type of effect!

But let's not get off topic here! Pound 4 Pound I have, in no order except top 4...

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Kelly Pavlik
4. Bernard Hopkins

Antonio Margarito (I have really grown to respect him over the past few weeks)
Juan Manuel Marquez
Wladimir Klitschko
Miguel Cotto
Izzy Vasquez
Rafael Marquez


10-20, no order...
Paul Williams
Nonito Donaire
Joan Guzman
Nate Campbell
Christian Mijares
Chris John
Shane Mosley
Oscar De La Hoya
David Haye
Arthur Abraham
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