Sept 1st Sun newspaper artical

RICKY HATTON is a man who can handle himself pretty well - and that's putting it mildy.
So, it was a surprise to see The Hitman a little unsteady on his feet after a big night out in London.

Ricky had spent the night at trendy West End nightclub Embassy and left looking as though he'd been another 10 rounds with FLOYD MAYWEATHER, even needing a helping hand to get into his waiting car.

I've been out drinking with the Manchester lad and he can't half put them away so God only knows what he was drinking.

A Heavyweight Punch maybe?

On leaving the club he was accosted by two blonde female fans and, more than happy to oblige, Ricky posed for pictures with the shoeless twosome.

Hat's off to him though, there aren't many drunken celebs who deal with their fans as politely as Ricky does.

Check the pictures out

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showb...icle1629780.ece

I like the hitman but boxers who drink are pretty stupid..I think its disrespectful to the sport..The best trained athletes in the world are boxers and seeing or hearing of them drinking is pretty bad I think..I box and only drink a few times a year and Ive heard Hatton say its a weekly thing..

Oh fuck off mate disrespectful my arse. If as fighter is in training or making weight then sure drinking is bad but to say it is disrespectful is just bullshit. I don't drink as a personal choice but I will be dammed if I care if anyone else does. He has made a shitload of dosh & so what if he drinks a bit. Better to have lived life a bit than to die having done nothing.

Fuck you dude..Why can't boxers smoke weed then??You'll say it's illegal I bet..Hatton doesn't drink a bit,he is a regular drinker..If he drank a few times a year or even once a month it wouldn't be a problem..Why do you think he always gets soo fat??Cause he drinks every fuckin week..I said I like him but I don't think he should be drinking..

How is it disrespectful??Partying only gets in the way of boxing..It shows lack of COMMITMENT..If you disagree,you're retarded..He has time to drink all he wants and get as fat as he wants after boxing soo why would he do it now??

Pac-man just stopped doing his partying and he looked better than ever against Diaz..Pac-man even said he is more focused now then ever since stopping the partying..Freddie Roach would agree with me too..

How is drinking living life and doing something??That straight up sounds stupid..I am not hating on people who drink at all,but boxers shouldn't be doing it on a regular basis..

Hell,my trainer will tell you the same shit..If you want his number to argue this with since it seems to bother you so much,just ask..

Sorry bud but I don't care about what your trainers take on this is. You seem like a guy who boxes & it is your total fucking life. Good for you I hope you go all the way (I really do) but when you get older & I am assuming you are a teenager you do not live your entire life around your job. You go in you do your 40 - 60 hours a week & you have leisure time. If you wish to relax by drinking beer & going to the clubs or football then that is fine you have worked hard & deserve to be able to chill out.

You talk about Hatton being fat well so what! When has he had trouble making weight for a fight? He is paid to make weight & fight & that is what he does & he does it quite well really as he is in the top 1% of his chosen occupation. Did you ever stop to think Hatton is so beloved because he is a "everyman" who loves a pie a pint & a punt & the average Joe identifies with him because he has similar interests as they do. You seem like a very anal guy talking absolute shit about commitment & respect. The only commitment a fighter has to make is to make weight & turn up in shape ready to fight. Hatton always does so there is no problem.

As for the weed thing I personally don't care if it is illegal or what if you want to chill out by punching a few hot ones then good for you just don't let it impact on your career just like drinking.

As I said disrespectful? More like delusional IMO.

There is NO WAY you can question Hattons dedication to boxing.


He's been at it since an early age, trains like an absolute demon and has fought some great fighers.....how is that not showing commitment?!?!


If he wants a drink...so what? He's a great role model for kids...showing that being modest, keeping your feet on the ground and hard work does pay off.


I suppose eating the occasional bit of fast food is disrespecting the sport too?


If Hatton struggled to make weight and has had fights cancelled due to him being over-weight, then yes...I suppose it would be bad for him to carry on living like he does with his beer and pies, BUT, the fact is, he doesn't have trouble and has never brought the sport down by not making weight (not making weight IS disrespectful to the sport).




I can understand where you're coming from, Blaze, but to say Hatton disrespects the sport is WAAAAAY off. He's done more for British boxing then nearly all the 'big' UK boxing stars.

I dont believe Hatton drinks while he is in training. at least 24/7 implied that... I don't see it as a problem considering he works his ass off everytime he trains.

I did all my partying and getting fucked up in high school..I'm 24 and I go to college and box..I'm a full time student and most of my free time goes into training and the rest goes to being with my woman,chilling with friends,and playing basketball..So trust me,boxing is NO WHERE near my whole life,but I love boxing more than you could ever know..Also,I don't think you understand the word commitment when it comes to boxing..

Hatton trains extremely hard for fights,no doubt about it..I never said anything about that or making weight..Hatton is still young,soo he can still get into shape without much problem,but once he gets older I think it will be a lot harder to make weight..Just to let you know this whole convo. is not just about Hatton..

My friend Darnell Wilson(I talk to him on the phone often),who is a pro light heavyweight boxer, who knows Tarver from the amateurs and still talks to him sometimes told me Tarver went out partying the night before the Hopkins fight..Check Chad Dawson record if ya'll don't believe me about Darnell being a real fighter..He was 8-0 when he fought Dawson in 2004..He also beat Jermaine Taylor in the amateurs and lost to Pavlik and also fought Jeff Lacy..

Back to the topic though,I don't question Hattons dedication or love for boxing,so you all got me wrong..I just wish boxers were more like the Hopkins and Mayweathers who are always ready to fight in between fights..I believe fighters should relax for a period of time in between fights but not trash their body away..I think you'd need to be a boxer to understand me,cause I didn't expect most of you to..Physical health is the most important thing for a boxer,ya all know that though..Example---I used to get into fights and punch walls and stuff and not care about my body but my trainer really shed light on me and he and my family helped turn me around..My trainer really helped make me understand what its like and what your responsibilities are as a fighter(more than you'd think)..Maybe ya all might understand what I'm sayin a little more after sayin that(or ya might think I'm crazy)..

One last thing I'd wanna say,my skills are really good at boxing but I wish I was able to train as hard or even close to as hard as Hatton does..

"I think you'd need to be a boxer to understand me, cause I didn't expect most of you to."

Ummm I think Ricky Hatton is a boxer and he obviously disagrees with you. James Toney is a boxer and he DEFINATELY disagrees with you. Fernando Vargas and the list goes on and on....... these are some extreme examples, I know Hasim Rahman has blown up real big in between fights, there are heaps and heaps of examples of fighters not taking proper care of themselves in between bouts so although I resepct your argument don't go pulling that 'you've got to be a boxer' junk when the evidence clearly shows MANY elite level fighters go about their business a lot differently from you and dare I say have achieved a lot more in the ring.

Everyone's different bro and it sounds like you have a solid relationship with your trainer and that's great but that don't mean your way should be the universal way.

BTW good luck for any future fights.

Don't say that...makes you sound stuck up your own arse.


There are a few guys on here who box....some who've done quite well actually, so don't say that.



Plus, like Ollie Reed said, there are a load of boxers who drink and weight gain in there SPARE TIME.



If it was causing trouble and attracting bad press (drunken fighting, etc), then yes, it would be bad for the sport. But personally, I find Mayweather smacking a chick around more detremental to the sport than Hatton having a few pints.




Of course, anyone who drinks days before a fight (apart from Mayorga...he's allowed to because he's funny), is 'disrespecting' the sport. They're professionals doing a job so if they turn up drunk to work, or not in the shape they're paid to be in, then yes, thats bad.

Boxing never ends..Its a year round sport..Boxers are wayyy better trained athletes then football and basketball players..I've played both and nothing compares to boxing..

Thanks the good luck and thanks to everyone else who said anything to that extent..It seems to be my opinion and me vs. everyone elses..James Toney disagrees with me now I know,and he sucks now..All he has left is his skills to rely on,he is NEVER in shape anymore..The reason I said the "maybe you have to be a boxer" is to understand the responsibilities more..Hey,maybe it's just that I listen to my trainer and guys like Toney doesn't give a shit..Roy Jones,Floyd,Hopkins,even Ishe Smith all are guys who don't fuck around during off time and they are 3(not Ishe) of the best fighters in the 90's era..I don't think my way should be the universal way but I have my own opinion,which is what all this is..

I agree with you guys about Mayorga,it is funny as hell..He is just plain crazy..

I am in the amateurs and I just don't think it's right to be getting paid millions of dollars and then do that..

I know a lot of athletes drink when not in training but some of ya try to make it seem like all athletes do and that's definitely not the case..There are plenty that are with me on the subject even though none of you are..

LOL, and I know Fitz said it right below ROLL DEEP's post, but the pre-fight cig during the limo ride to the arena and the post-fight cig in the ring after a victory is pretty funny. My only question is... if it's any other fighter besides Mayorga is it as funny??

I think that by the time he struggles to make weight like 99% of fighters in history who gain natural weight as they age he will have enough money to never work again.



How do you mean like Hopkins & PBF. Protracted contract negotiations & walking away from making the best fights but that is cool because they are always in shape for a potential fight?

What lil Ricky does doesnt matter anyway he sucks and is done with.

I think you understand what I'm trying to say..Boxing never does end though..You may be done with a fight,but then you're on to the next fight whether or not you have something planned..Which is what all boxers mean when saying "get back to the gym" after fights..

How are cyclists the toughest trained??Getting hit by someone is apart of training and something you need to get used to and also being able to continue after taking a lot of shots..I don't know anything about cyclists training soo I can't really say who is harder trained but I assume a boxer is because of the hell we have to go through..

I think i did maybe exaggerate the disrespecting the sport a little..Now that I think about it more it has something to do with my dad that I made that comment..I don't wanna talk about it or explain that..I do think now that I don't get messed up everyday that my opinion has changed on the subject which isn't cool to talk about other people doin it when I did but I wasn't boxing at the time when I was getting fucked up all the time..

Steve---I mean that Hopkins and Floyd are always ready for a fight on one day notice,which is something I really respect about fighters who are like that..

I wouldn't quite say that. Tell Terell Owens, Chad Johnson, Ray Lewis, LT, and many others that. I have done both as well and they both invilve alot of work!!!!


OH Im sure KOBE would disagree with your statement as well! But Boxing is a helluva sport and you do have to be in top shape, so it's debatable!

I respect all professional athletes and the effort they put into getting into shape, but I think the most fit or hardest trained athletes are the world class Ironmen, Triathletes, and marathon runners.

BTW... this is all speculation on my part. I've never trained for either of the three sports I listed!!

Ask Brian Minto who was a football player for a really long time..He said 1 day in the boxing gym was wayyyy crazier then "Hell week" in football..He's not the only football player to have said that either..

I respect all athletes so I hope I'm not coming off in a disrespectful way towards other sports..Basketball is one of my favorite sports and played it for a long time but it is easy compared to boxing..With boxing,you are your own team,no one can help you when you're getting nailed countless times in the head and body..Being able to recover from some beatings that Holyfield had taken and then had come back in the same round is crazy..Getting hit takes a lot out of you and I can't imagine getting hit 300 times by V. Klitchko like Danny Williams did..Boxers have to train sooo hard because they can die in the ring in ANY one of their fights,whether they are fighting the biggest puncher or the weakest puncher..Max Baer had killed people with 1 punch..

I do have madddd respect for marathon runners and actually when my trainer was a boxer he was involved in a lot of marathon runs..IronMen are also really insane trainers too..REALLY INSANE..It's funny how one sentence in my posts become multiple posts..haha..

Well I disagree with Minto as well. Terrell Owens weighs 230 pounds. Name one Boxer at that weight that is in that type of shape???

Like I said earlier... it's debatable! I feel like any athlete at the top of their game is in Top shape. Whether it's Floyd Mayweather, Michael Phelps, Jerry Rice (who ran 10 miles a day, "up hill") or any superior athlete... I don't agree with Boxing being the most demanding!

I agree with you about that, but to do all 3 for as far (distance wise) as they do and the endurance it takes to finish is insane. A marathon runner isn't a "jack of all trades". The Tour de France riders are sick too. I don't know a lot about the sport of cycling, but from what I do know it's almost like running a marathon a day for 14 days. Looking back over my post I meant to say that I was adding the 3 sports I listed to go along with cyclists.

It's weird you said that..After I wrote my post I was thinking about those female gymnasts I saw in the Olympics and it is mind blowing..I would put gymnasts up there with boxers..Those girls were amazing..I wonder what their work outs are like and what they do..

With boxing,taking punches isn't just being tough..Taking any punch takes something out of your stamina,especially body shots..Head shots do too though..This is one of the reasons why sparring is necessary before having a real fight..You need to get your body basically beat up some to get it used to the effects on your stamina..I've never been hurt and even though you might not think the shots are effecting you,you'll find out later in the session that you're not as strong as you should be if you took more punches than normal(especially to the body)..I don't mind getting hit at all but after thinking about it more,the punches did lower my stamina..

I'm an amateur boxer myself, started fighting last year (3-0) and I've been boxing since I was 14 so thats almost 5 years now.

It would only be disgraceful to the sport if Ricky got wasted in a training camp for a fight. I don't mind drinking on a break

Ricky FATTON though is not as hungry as he used to be in my opinion. I think it's downhill for him, especially after the brutal assbeating he took at the hands of Money Mayweather. I don't think I'll consider him a top level fighter anymore. I think he'd get his ass torn to shreads vs. Cotto, Judah, Clottey, Margarito. And at 140, I think Paulie will beat him by UD.

It is a harsh but I also think it's true. Hatton is a really good fighter and was a top fighter up until the Mayweather fight...but to me he seems to wanna pull a Lacy and just retire after one last payday. He was talking about retirement before the Mayweather fight.

I ballooned up and haven't fought in a while...I'm planning to fight Novemeber this year, after I've lost some weight. I'm pretty much a Cory Spinks..have no KO's in 3 wins...with the way I fight I think a KO will happen very rarely for me...lol...it doesnt matter to me though you gotta do what you gotta do to win. The only time I've been hurt with in my first fight with a body shot..lol..but I didnt show it. But it did hurt. Funny, I was officially knocked down in round 1 of that fight (standing 8 count) glove almost touched the canvas...yet I didn't feel the punch at all. My legs just gave out on me for thats split second and I had my head back after a sec.

Don't let RayFanofRealBoxers hear you say that.

I fight at Junior Welterweight and the gloves I use are 12oz. I think my punching power is just average to below average anyway. I consider myself a pure boxer that occasionally works the body inside. I never looked for a KO.

Sup biggeorge,I like that ya fight like Spinks..I am 6'2,200 lbs and am also a pure boxer but all it takes is one shot from the right to end things..I keep my hands up like the Europeans do but fight more like a Lennox Lewis..I do have good movement too,soo I use that a lot..I set everything up with the jab and if I want get respect,throw the right..I don't look for KO's,but they happen..I don't throw the right a lot either since I like to have people thinking about my jab cause I got a good jab,then the right comes and they don't even think about it since they are watchin the left..I also have really good uppercuts and my left hook is good but I want to get more confident in it..One dude I was sparring with threw a 1-2 at me at the beginning of our sparring session and I nailed him with a right to the body and broke his ribs right there and KO'd him(it was 15 seconds into sparring)..I never throw as hard as I can in sparring either but probably got him with 60%..I'm also glad ya see things my way with this topic of drinking..

How would you break yourself down more??

Sometimes I do fight inside as I said and mix up left hooks to the body, inside lefthooks, right/left uppercuts but like I said I feel more comfortable with the jab, hit/move (run to some people). I also sometimes have a habit of getting trapped on the ropes and thats also usually where the inside work comes from. I'm a right handed fighter but my left is stronger (don't know how). My favorite punch besides the jab has to be the left hook to the body. That's the punch I've actually HURT or knocked guys down with in sparring. Watching all these world class fighters will really help you (Mayweather, Hopkins, Winky, Toney). You'll pick up so many tricks from them. Toney allows himself to get beat up on the ropes but stays very defensive minded and makes sure that HE punishes YOU everytime his back is against the ropes. One thing about me is when a guy can outbox ME in sparring, I turn into a Chavez sometimes and just work the body with the left hook and really try to hurt the guy but for the most part I'm really cautious fighter.

Being in control of a fight is the best feeling in the world. LOL. When you can do whatever you want with your opponent.

Fitz, seems like you train alot... you should try to join an amateur competition or something. It's really not much different than sparring actually...In fact for me some sparring sessions have been alot more brutal than the actual fights.

I laughed hard for a full five minutes when I read that.

I can picture Rayfan sitting in front of his computer screen with smoke coming out his ears!

Past it? At 24? You mad?!?!

It's not like you've never done anything. If you had been sitting around doing bugger all for the last 10 years, then maybe, yes, but by the sounds of it you've been active so it shouldn't be too bad.

Come on dude.....go for it.

Oh I know you didn't say they were, but in my post on previous pages when I first mentioned Triathletes and Ironmen/women I also included Marathon runners. So I didn't know if you missed that so I wanted to stress that marathon runners weren't jacks of all trades. I wasn't trying to be a dick if that's how it came off.

24 is not past it..I'm 24 too soo don't drag me into it too..hahahaha..You hear commentators say its too old but most of them don't know shit..

I train 6-7 days a week and if you wanna get really good abs,do a lot of running and a lot of crunches(different types since different types work different ab muscles,top,middle,and bottem)..I do boxing stuff everyday to stay on top of my game,play basketball a lot,run 6 times a week(run+sprints 3 days and run a lot the other 3)..My plan is to fight in the amateurs till I'm 27-28 and than turn pro..Antonio Tarver did it and soo many other guys did too,why can't you and me do it??Anything is possible if you believe in yourself..Amateur experience is the most important thing whether your style is fit for the amateurs or not..

Fitz, you're exactly right. I'm sure we've all done that as kids growing up, but as we matured we realized.... damn that takes some serious strength to do those things on the rings.

Yeah it's true. I should maybe think about it again. I think I would throw it out there to one of the trainers and see what he thinks, I'm sure they know whether you are capable or not, as I have sparred and trained with them for well over a year now, so they might be able to give me an honest answer.




Oh yeah, I must have missed it. I agree, about marathon runners. Also no, I didn't think you were being a dick, I just didn't know where the marathon comment came from as I must have missed it lol




Haha, I don't think 24 is too old if you were already involved. I was just saying for me, it may have been too old to start.

Can you give me a bit more info on you're running schedule? How long do you run for (time or length)? Also do you run just before or after your boxing/weight training? Or do you're running just by itself? I have spoken to people that will do there runs in the morning and then do weights or other training in the evening.
I would just prefer to do things in the one session and was doing running (only twice a week lol) before I started my boxing workout. I don't know if it has any major disadvantages.

We need to change the name of this thread too "Motivation". Im 23 and I want to fight bad. I still got a ways to go though. Im 266 and would like to get down to 235!!!! I fight like Tony Thompson but more athletic. Hands High, Southpaw, who works be hind a jab

Fitz with a 0-0 record you could easily be the main undercard on a Mundine PPV. If you had a few losses you could fight in the main event against "the man".

As long as your in your 20's its never too late to start boxing IMO.

LMAO, so true man.

Exactly look at Anthony Mundine. A multiple time WORLD SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION! He started boxing when he realised he was not the best footballer in the world & never would be so he decided to become a boxing champion.

Hey dude..I hope this will help you out and get you on a better running schedule..

I sometimes run late at night or around 3-5 during the day..It all depends on what I got goin on(with school for the most part)..I really like running at night cause I can think more clearly..I did my running today at 5 pm..I only do my work out afterwards if I am really busy that day with school..I highly suggest doing your running and resting afterwards sooo you can have a lot more strength when you get to your boxing..When I started boxing I was like you with my running,I hated it but now I have grown to like it..

MWF---4-5 miles jog plus I do 4 rounds of jumping rope when I do my actual work out..Find a good place with a lot of hills..I've slacked a little on jumping rope this summer though..haha..I like jumping on a padded surface to have less impact on my knees..

Tu,Th,Sat or Sun----2 miles plus sprints..The sprint intervals will kill you if you haven't done them yet..The treadmill is best for doing sprints..Ya want to put the treadmill as high as it can go (normally 10-12 mph) and run as hard as you can for a minute or 2(with a 1 minute rest/walk after)..Then do it all over again..If you do 1 minute--do 8-10 of these..If you do 2 minutes--do 4-5..I suggest you do the 1 minute interval,the 2 minute ones are pretty crazy..You could also go to your "hill" route and do another mile if ya got anything left..The sprints are intense man,especially when ya get to 2 minutes..

Do you do bag intervals??Which is non-stop punching as fast and as hard as you can for 2 minutes on the heavy bag??I do normally 5 rounds of that..Shadow boxing is for technique and intervals are for the heavy bag for me..This is just my thoughts and way of doing things..I do hit the bag for fun though..Remember this man,boxing is 90% mental/spiritual and 10% physical..If you think you can,you can..

Yep, your like me. I do 4 rounds of skipping before each boxing workout just for a warm up and to loosen up. For a stage I was going to the athletics track and doing 100m sprints. I would do a 100m spring, then go for a slow jog around the track, come back do 100m sprint then another slow jog around the track. So kind of similar but not quite.
I seen some teenage kids who are training to fight do what you're doing though. They sprint then job back, sprint and jog back and do that for about 3 rounds or something.
To be honest, I don't have much of a structure at the moment with my bag work, I was actually going to ask the trainers on Tuesday for advice but totally forgot. Basically after I done my 4 rounds skipping, I will then go do a round on floor to ceiling then go do some hard rounds on the bag, when I'm fucked I then go do something a little less strenuous like some shadow boxing or floor to ceiling again to get back some energy and then do some heavy bag work again. I kind of go through stages over the round when doing bag work. Go hard for a little bet and then just work on technique.
All up, my workouts can go for anywhere from 45 minutes to like an hour and 15 minutes, just depends how much energy I have. I wouldn't mind starting on some running again.
The other thing I recently started doing is getting some 1.25kg dumbells or one of the really light ones and shadow box with those in the mirror. Man, my shoulders are fucking burning after that. I also started doing 6 push ups in between rounds also.

I don't want to tell ya what you should be doing,I just want to help ya or give ya new ideas..As for shadow boxing,I do 8 rounds of shadow to work on technique,speed,and cardio..The last 30 seconds of the round,I throw as fast and as many punches as I can(straight punches)..I'd also SUGGEST(you don't have to) doing shadow boxing after skippin rope..Try to go all out for 2 mins on the bag instead of mixing it up with technique,then do technique rounds if you want after the non-stop punching..Another thing I do is get 3 lb. dumb bells in each arm and do non-stop straight punches for 2 minutes..Ceiling to floor bag is really fun,definitely helps keep ya sharp..I wish I owned one but do use it when I go to my boxing gym..Remember,I am just giving you more options or ideas..Let me know if you decide to try them out and how they went for ya..

Also,what are you Calisthenics like??

Cool cool. I do the same thing as you with the dumbells. I shadow box with them, totally fucks you. Also, floor to ceiling is my favourite equipment. Love using it, I also like fighting close in with it, not long.
I will try some of the things. At the moment, I don't have a structure on my boxing training. I kind of go there, have a vague kind of stucture, but just kind of play it by ear.
Isn't calithneics this?


If so, I don't do any of that, lol.

Oh yeah, also yesterday when I went training. I got on the pads for a couple of rounds with one of the trainers. First time someone ever asked me this. First off, I'm a natural right hander and box naturally orthodox also. But the trainer told me I was a natural lefty, and I was like, no I'm not. He then asked me if I still write use my right hand, and I said I used my right hand for everything.
He said my left hand is much stronger than my right and it was funny, at the time I was kind of jabbing. Well it wasn't your typical jab I was doing, I kind of turn and pivot right at the end so it is kind of a mixture between a jab and a hook except I don't have a bent arm, I keep it straight. I usually don't lead with that punch, but use it as a follow up if I'm doing a 1,2,3. But yeah, I kind of always knew I had a better left than right, but first time anyone ever mentioned it. Just everything I do with my left is better.
I also switch to southpaw also at times, like Cotto does. Never asked a trainer on there thoughts on this, so I asked him and he said if you can do it, do it at times, but he personally wouldn't. I like to switch southpaw at times also, only problem I have from the southpaw stance is my defence isn't as strong from that position.

I switch to southpaw sometimes too and my defense isn't as good either..I don't spar too much outta southpaw though soo that's probably why..I would suggest staying righty since if your left is better and right handed stance is what you're most used to keep it and you'll have an advantage having your better hand in front..My trainer always wants me to convert because my right jab is extremely hard and my right hook is really good too but I like my left jab more..It doesn't do as much damage but it still makes everyone bleed..

Cals. for me are my push ups and crunches..I do 2-3 rounds of non-stop push up..Slow push ups though and I do 3 different kinds,so 40 seconds per different type..I do diamonds,regular,and wide push ups..I also do 300-500 crunches a day..I do 60-100 real slow and hold em as long as I can(this takes a long time)..