Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Berto/Cotto fight
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2
JonnyBlaze
Cotto/Berto would be a amazing fight..They both have great defense and both have really good jabs..Cotto has his left hook and Berto has his right uppercut(signature punches,they both have every punch ya could use though)...Berto would counter Cotto a lot I think with his uppercut when Cotto would go to his body..Berto has great stamina and Cottos has become suspect to some people..I think Cotto has decent stamina though,not like Berto though..Berto looked just as fresh in the 12th round of the Forbes fight as he did in the first..I really wonder who's jab would become the dominating jab..This would be a huge factor in the fight..They are both pretty fast but Berto is lightning fast..Cotto has more power in my opinion but they both can punch..

Who do you think would win??
JonnyBlaze
One more thing..We have seen that Cotto is a sucker for the uppercut and Berto has the best uppercut at welterweight in my opinion..

frankypc
Obviously berto has the speed, and good combinations etc. But its easy to look fresh in the 12th round when your fighting against a guy who cant punch. And i dont know how bertos power compares with judah and or even margarito. I agree about the uppercuts because i was talking about the same thing with my father here as we watched the fight. But we have seen what cosme rivera did with just one flush punch against berto and cotto has way more power than cosme, i think berto because of inexperience gets really open for great counters when punching and cotto will take advantage of that. The surest way to win against cotto is be bigger, have lots of stamina and a granite chin (margaritos qualities) and i dont think berto has all those three. Maybe when they finally meet berto will have improved enough to pull it out. But yesterdays berto against cotto, i think cotto catches him with something real big. Hey its boxing and berto has the speed to catch him too. But if marg cant finish cotto with 3 straight uppercuts i dont think berto can, and also i think cotto's power will slowdown berto as the fight goes on, again...he is no margarito.
Mean Mister Mustard
Berto looked good with his stamina last night but, he seemed to slow down a notch in the middle rounds holding more and fighting in bursts. He picked it up later but whose middle rounds are when Cotto does his thing.

I liked Berto's defense, real old school stuff with the rolling and slipping. If he can work on it more I can see him make Cotto spend a lot of energy in the inside while he lands the sharper blows. A bit like the Campbell-Diaz fight except Cotto hits harder than Diaz plus he has better foot speed. So I don't know if Cotto would stand on the inside even after he sees he's getting the worst of it.

As of now the benefit of the doubt goes to Cotto who is more proven than Berto and who is an elite fighter. Berto's best opponents so far do not measure up to that.
D-MARV
Im Going out on a limb and say that Berto Stops Cotto in the Mid to late rounds. Uppercut will probably do Cotto In! To much speed for Cotto.
JD
Cotto by stoppage provided Margarito didn't beat it out of him.
BigG
I'm thinking Cotto would be too much..late stoppage..
D-MARV
Personally I think Cotto has seen his best days. He may be able to win a belt or two when Williams and Margarito move up, but I think he has reached his peak. Margarito beat it out of him.
Thegreatequalizer
i think this would be a great fight, but i think cotto would edge it out. either a late stoppage or decision.
salvador
QUOTE(JD @ Sep 28 2008, 12:20 PM) [snapback]405669[/snapback]
Cotto by stoppage provided Margarito didn't beat it out of him.


If Marg didn't beat it out of him, he will next summer. Cotto has 2 fights left in him: the softball Arum is throwing him in Feb and the rematch with Marg. Hopefully after that Cotto will resist the huge money DLH will certainly offer him to fight next fall.

I'd like to see Berto-Cintron or Berto-Clottey before making any judgement on his ability. Somehow I doubt he'd be throwing all those combinations against a guy who could hurt him.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 28 2008, 03:00 PM) [snapback]405692[/snapback]
If Marg didn't beat it out of him, he will next summer. Cotto has 2 fights left in him: the softball Arum is throwing him in Feb and the rematch with Marg. Hopefully after that Cotto will resist the huge money DLH will certainly offer him to fight next fall.

I'd like to see Berto-Cintron or Berto-Clottey before making any judgement on his ability. Somehow I doubt he'd be throwing all those combinations against a guy who could hurt him.

Berto probably should go against Clottey first before Cotto if he ever decides to fight Cotto,which I hope..I think Berto will always throw his combos because they are soo sharp and good that I would consider them apart of his defense even though they are offensive moves..Just like how some guys rely on non-stop punching to be their defense,but Berto has a really good defense too..Definitely old school like Mean said..I think Berto will keep improving like he did last night..He had to step his game up for sure against Forbes and he did..I was impressed..I was also surprised how everyone thought Forbes was a push over fight..Forbes was really competitive early before Berto really started to get to him more..His punches didn't slow up much throughout the whole fight..Another way to see that Berto is steppin it up is that he added swimming to his work out to help improve stamina even more..

I want to go with Damarv. and say Berto beats Cotto..I think Berto would be able to block the left hook and come with the right uppercut a lot..Berto may not be a Margarito but he does have a better uppercut NO DOUBT..Berto's uppercuts are 10 times sharper and shorter..If Berto and Cotto were in a clinch,Berto would still be able to get the cut in there..He showed that against Forbes..Few guys have had such short/sharp/hard uppercuts..Mayweather has this uppercut I'm talking about,but i t is no where near as hard as Berto's..Berto is great at finding small openings..
salvador
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Sep 28 2008, 06:39 PM) [snapback]405700[/snapback]
Berto probably should go against Clottey first before Cotto if he ever decides to fight Cotto,which I hope..

I want to go with Damarv. and say Berto beats Cotto..


Berto has a better chance of beating Cotto than beating Clottey. I really think that people are underestimating the psychological damage Cotto sustained in the fight with Marg. Cotto will never walk into a ring again with a bigger man KNOWING that he's going to win if he just keeps coming forward and going to the body. I'd take Clottey over Cotto right now all day.

As far as Berto beating any of the top guys, I'd have to see how he reacted to standing in front of serious power/skill before I could figure that out.

Berto's definitely the wild card at ww right now. It just keeps getting better!

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Sep 28 2008, 09:13 PM) [snapback]405727[/snapback]
I'm sure someone like Tszyu experienced a similar feeling against Phillips and came back better than ever.

Great point!!!He learned from his mistakes..
The Original MrFactor
I've heard thru the grapevine that Berto is "Chinny." i'd love to see how he fares against a top 10 guy with alot more KO's on his resume. Berto was dropped by Cosme Rivera and at times he looked like he got stunned by Stevie Forbes. I think if he gets in there with a determioned heavy hitter, like a Cotto, Berto's great offense witll diminish. He seemed to lose some sizzle last nite in the middle rounds. That was against Stevie Forbes. How much sizzle would he lose against a Cotto? This would be a very tough fight to pick. Berto could easily come out and throw a 10punch combo and catch Cotto and end the fight, or... Cotto can catch Berto with a clean counter hook while Berto gets on one of his all out punch high's.

I'd definately like to see this one. If pressed today, I'd go with Cotto by 4th rnd KO.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Sep 28 2008, 11:23 PM) [snapback]405745[/snapback]
I've heard thru the grapevine that Berto is "Chinny." i'd love to see how he fares against a top 10 guy with alot more KO's on his resume. Berto was dropped by Cosme Rivera and at times he looked like he got stunned by Stevie Forbes. I think if he gets in there with a determioned heavy hitter, like a Cotto, Berto's great offense witll diminish. He seemed to lose some sizzle last nite in the middle rounds. That was against Stevie Forbes. How much sizzle would he lose against a Cotto? This would be a very tough fight to pick. Berto could easily come out and throw a 10punch combo and catch Cotto and end the fight, or... Cotto can catch Berto with a clean counter hook while Berto gets on one of his all out punch high's.

I'd definately like to see this one. If pressed today, I'd go with Cotto by 4th rnd KO.

Berto was never stunned against Forbes..They tripped each other up a bit but I don't think anyone was hurt bad in the fight..Forbes may of gotten stunned once by a right uppercut that snapped his head back real bad but other then that I don't think anyone was fazed..

4th round KO??Wow..Ya must have little faith in Berto..Also,Cotto has been dropped before Margarito too..I think all fighters need to be dropped or stunned in the pros before their chin really starts to fully develop..Some guys gets dropped once and come back and their chin seems like it has improved a lot and some come back and it seems like their chin has been shattered..I think Berto's has developed and I think Cotto's has developed(we do have to see if it is still holding up after Margarito was all over it)..Anyone can get dropped if they are caught perfectly..Remember,Paul Malignaggi has knocked down guys based on just speed from his feather fists..Berto has sharpened up his defense and same with Cotto..
frankypc
Thing is cotto was droped at 140 where he looked extremely drained , in 147 the only fighter that has put him really bad conditions is margarito, and well, i would not know for sure but how comparable is bertos with margaritos?
BigG
But one thing....Berto is obviosuly the goods IMO..so it wouldn't surprise me if he beats anyone his size. But Margarito beats him bad because he makes Berto look like a midget...even though I feel Berto has more skills.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(frankypc @ Sep 29 2008, 12:12 AM) [snapback]405758[/snapback]
Thing is cotto was droped at 140 where he looked extremely drained , in 147 the only fighter that has put him really bad conditions is margarito, and well, i would not know for sure but how comparable is bertos with margaritos?

Berto has skills and defense and Margarito has non-stop pressure and non-stop punches and a insane chin..Very different fighters..The punch that Cotto is most open for is Berto's best punch though..Berto,like Margarito will be infront of you all night..Berto has one of the best jabs I've seen in a long time at welterweight and Margarito really doesn't have a jab..hahaha..

Also,I want to say Andre Berto is not the same fighter as he was against Rivera..His defense has improved sooo much and he is over all a better fighter..I think Berto improves a lot in each fight..To tell ya the truth too,the Rivera knock down wasn't shit!!That was nothing,not a big knock down,it was just a punch he didn't see comin cause it was soo short and he moved into it..It was a knock down but not the kinda knock down you could ever say he has a weak chin based off of..I suggest you all forget that knock down..
salvador
QUOTE(Fitz @ Sep 28 2008, 10:13 PM) [snapback]405727[/snapback]
I don't think it's anymore than you are over estimating. The truth is, nobody knows. You are speculating and so would I if I said it won't effect him. We have to wait until we see him again.


Virtually everything on this board is speculation! If it wasn't, there'd be no reason for a board. rolleyes.gif

My speculation is based on the fact that Cotto hit Marg with EVERYTHING, and he never stunned Marg. From that fact alone, we can assume that it's highly unlikely that he'll ever have the same confidence in his power, particularly against a bigger man. We also know that Cotto was beaten down over the course of an entire fight and that he quit - a guy who has an entire country living and dying with him quit because he couldn't take the punishment. Those are some pretty damn big obstacles to overcome - particularly when the division he's in has so many bigger guys.

You're right in that we won't know until we see him in the ring again with a top contender, but I'm going to feel damn confident in my assessment until I'm proven wrong.

And though I seriously doubt Arum would be stupid enough to put Cotto in with Clottey in Feb like he's hinting he will, but if he does then Cotto will have suffered 2 straight punishing losses from bigger guys with better chins. At that point I'd say that he'll never under any circumstances be the same fighter he was before he stepped in the ring with Marg (which I'm already saying!).
frankypc
JohnnyBlaze i dont have any disagreement with you about Berto skills. He is a work in progress and still has so many good things going on for him, his speed is amazing and i love how he punches in combinations. But the thing is i dont think berto can be in fron of cotto all night not many people can take what cotto can dish. Also im not dissing berto because of his knockown in the cosme rivera fight, but at 147 only one fighter has droped cotto and it was from accumulation of punches, and berto as you said was caught by a perfect short punch as he was moving in, what garantees we have that cotto cant do the same in one of bertos outburts? and cotto hits harder then cosme rivera.

Hey its boxing and berto do have amazing skills, maybe he can pull it out, its not out of the question, but i dont think berto can bully around cotto and i think thats the only way to win against him.

Disclaimer: lol ( As always, i maybe wrong, whats stated above is just my opinion )
kidbazooka1
Berto's chin has never been tested by a real power puncher the only time he fought a guy with decent power he got floored hard by Rivera. Berto isn't in the same league as Cotto and Margarito and I doubt he'll ever be.

Cotto by brutal stoppage.
King Eugene
I would like to see Cotto with another Trainer...one who can improve his defense. I dont think he is done but I dont think he will get much better either. That lost may have made him a better fighter or like most people think, he may be done. I'm a go out on the limb and say whoever he fights next he stops in impressive fashion and shows everybody that he's not quite done yet!
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(Fitz @ Sep 29 2008, 08:01 PM) [snapback]405830[/snapback]
The same guy who couldn't stop a chinny and shot Corrales and the one that couldn't stop Judah? Where does the hype of this guy come from? All of this started for having a brave loss against Margarito.
Clottey is decent, but I swear people gave him a reputation rather than him earning it.



Well put........

Its crazy,......4 months ago them two wouldnt even be put in same sentence together just off the merit of Cotto's ability,....not to mention his accomplishments....

Now people have basically put Cotto in almost a gatekeeper position...........sad....
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Fitz @ Sep 29 2008, 08:01 PM) [snapback]405830[/snapback]
The same guy who couldn't stop a chinny and shot Corrales and the one that couldn't stop Judah? Where does the hype of this guy come from? All of this started for having a brave loss against Margarito.
Clottey is decent, but I swear people gave him a reputation rather than him earning it.



C'mon Fitz, you know exactly where his reputation came from. He was beating margarito to the punch for the 1st 4 rounds of their fight. People really hung on to that in order to justify Margarito as some stiff who shouldnt be in the same area code as a Floyd Mayweather. Then he arguably hurt his hand and chilled out for the next 8. Like you, I think Clottey is decent. He seems to be somewhat avoided by the top guys in the division too. He seems to get alot of his adulation because of a loss though. Always gotta question that...
slap
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Sep 28 2008, 11:16 AM) [snapback]405668[/snapback]
Im Going out on a limb and say that Berto Stops Cotto in the Mid to late rounds. Uppercut will probably do Cotto In! To much speed for Cotto.

Dude r u crazy r sumtin take another look at berto he isn't as good as it seems cotto has good hand speed also and bertos not even close 2 being in cottos class berto makes 2 many mistakes pay attention 2 his fights when he thinks he's behind he fights like a mad man its like his whole game plan is out the window maybe if his name gets big enough floyd comes back and exposes this guy but if not cotto will ko berto in the late rounds
salvador
QUOTE(Fitz @ Sep 29 2008, 08:01 PM) [snapback]405830[/snapback]
The same guy who couldn't stop a chinny and shot Corrales and the one that couldn't stop Judah? Where does the hype of this guy come from? All of this started for having a brave loss against Margarito.
Clottey is decent, but I swear people gave him a reputation rather than him earning it.


The issue with Cotto is that he's too small for the bigger guys at ww. I don't understand what's so difficult for people here to understand about the fact that the ww division is really two divisions - the big guys who struggle like hell to make weight - Williams, Marg, Cintron, Clottey - and the smaller guys who moved up like Judah, Cotto, Floyd. Clottey steps into the ring at 170. Cotto doesn't have the firepower to blow through him like he did with the 140 pounders, which means he's going to have to change his entire game plan.

And where does Cotto's hype come from if it wasn't from his life and death struggle with the chinny Judah or his razor thin win over a fading 36 year old Mosley?

Just taking the two common opponents that they had, Judah and Marg, I'd take Clottey's performance in both of those over Cotto's.

And all I said was that Cotto would suffer a brutal loss, not a ko, and I'll stand by that all day all night.

And I'll say it again, the psychological damage done to Cotto in the Marg fight was career changing, regardless of what anyone here thinks. He will NEVER walk into he ring against a bigger man KNOWING that he's going to break him down over 12 rounds. And with Clottey in particular, he's going to have to take a hell of a lot more short, quick counter shots to find out.

I also don't think that Arum would be stupid enough to risk it before a Marg rematch, which would be another sign of what the experts with skin in the game think. We'll see.

BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(slap @ Sep 30 2008, 08:57 AM) [snapback]405880[/snapback]
Dude r u crazy r sumtin take another look at berto he isn't as good as it seems cotto has good hand speed also and bertos not even close 2 being in cottos class berto makes 2 many mistakes pay attention 2 his fights when he thinks he's behind he fights like a mad man its like his whole game plan is out the window maybe if his name gets big enough floyd comes back and exposes this guy but if not cotto will ko berto in the late rounds


Berto gets hit entirely too much to stand with Cotto.....If he moved a bit more it would be a solid fight.....
Forbes gave Berto a fit early...and had his moments throughout the fight.....I just dont see Berto taking too much of Cottos fire power.....Consider if Cotto initiates his jab, neutralizing most of Berto's offensive onslought....long night for Berto in my opinion...

[quote name='salvador' date='Sep 30 2008, 09:21 AM' post='405881']
And I'll say it again, the psychological damage done to Cotto in the Marg fight was career changing, regardless of what anyone here thinks. He will NEVER walk into he ring against a bigger man KNOWING that he's going to break him down over 12 rounds. And with Clottey in particular, he's going to have to take a hell of a lot more short, quick counter shots to find out.


But we dont know Cotto's mindset right now.........

I do however think it would be a mistake for Cotto to fight a banger like Toney,..Clottey,...or even Cintron right now...I think he needs to take a tune up...then we can see where he's at both mentally and physically.

And as far as matching big ww with small ww....I think Cotto was, and will be, the ONLY small ww to actually take a fight with a big ww.........EVERYBODY else seems to avoid this fact.......(with the exception of a desparate, aging Mosely)
BigG
Cotto dominated Judah more than Clottey did. Judah arguably took 4 rounds against Clottey...Judah won 1 round (first) and had an even round in another (cant remember the exact round...maybe it was 4?) Anyway, Cotto beat the piss out of Judah. Clottey more outpointed Judah. And Clottey was almost a fuckin Light-Heavyweight by fight time against a small Judah.

Margarito fans keep bringing up that Santos was 172 for their fight...well at least Marg is a really big guy compared to Judah.
salvador
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Sep 30 2008, 03:55 PM) [snapback]405893[/snapback]
Cotto dominated Judah more than Clottey did. Judah arguably took 4 rounds against Clottey...Judah won 1 round (first) and had an even round in another (cant remember the exact round...maybe it was 4?) Anyway, Cotto beat the piss out of Judah. Clottey more outpointed Judah. And Clottey was almost a fuckin Light-Heavyweight by fight time against a small Judah.

Margarito fans keep bringing up that Santos was 172 for their fight...well at least Marg is a really big guy compared to Judah.


Judah had Cotto seriously stunned early with an uppercut and dazed Cotto at least twice more with uppercuts before the 5th round. If he'd landed a couple more shots, Cotto easily could have been kod. Clottey was never even close to being hurt because Judah's too small to hurt him.

Judah clearly quit against Clottey after realizing that he had no chance of winning. He couldn't hurt Clottey and the fight was starting to get one sided and it was obvious that things were getting progressively worse for the smaller man. Maybe it was that Judah had his spirit permanently broken by Cotto, but I definitely thought he could have fought on against Clottey and he quit instead.

And my point with Clottey is that he's too big for Cotto. Marg wasn't a part of the discussion.

salvador
QUOTE(Fitz @ Sep 30 2008, 03:51 PM) [snapback]405892[/snapback]
I'm not saying Clottey can't beat Cotto, but like I said Clottey couldn't stop Corrales or Judah, I'm not so convinced he beats Cotto easily.


Judah quit in the Clottey fight because he didn't want any more of the increasingly rough punishment. In my mind, that's stopping Judah.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 04:02 PM) [snapback]405896[/snapback]
Judah had Cotto seriously stunned early with an uppercut and dazed Cotto at least twice more with uppercuts before the 5th round. If he'd landed a couple more shots, Cotto easily could have been kod. Clottey was never even close to being hurt because Judah's too small to hurt him.

Judah clearly quit against Clottey after realizing that he had no chance of winning. He couldn't hurt Clottey and the fight was starting to get one sided and it was obvious that things were getting progressively worse for the smaller man. Maybe it was that Judah had his spirit permanently broken by Cotto, but I definitely thought he could have fought on against Clottey and he quit instead.

And my point with Clottey is that he's too big for Cotto. Marg wasn't a part of the discussion.

Judah didn't hurt Clottey because Clottey has a really good chin..Clottey has never been really too hurt that I've seen and I really don't recall him being hurt at all really..Margarito threw almost 1700 punches against Clottey and Clottey was never knocked down..That says a lot..Judah was definitely not too small to hurt Clottey but was fighting a guy who is insanely hard to hurt..Judah didn't want to continue in the Clottey fight though..

Cotto and Clottey have 2 completely different chins..Cotto's chin is no where near as good..I think Cotto has a decent chin but not the type of chin Clottey or Margarito has..
King Eugene
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 09:21 AM) [snapback]405881[/snapback]
I don't understand what's so difficult for people here to understand about the fact that the ww division is really two divisions - the big guys who struggle like hell to make weight - Williams, Marg, Cintron, Clottey - and the smaller guys who moved up like Judah, Cotto, Floyd. Clottey steps into the ring at 170.

You dudes are killing me with this two divisions in one division stuff. They all fight in the same division making it ONE division. Thats like saying there is a big division 2 and a small division 2 in college football cause all the players at the big division 2 are way bigger than the players at the small division two. LOL such a bad analysist of the WW 147 pound division. So what if they come in the ring a heavier then their opponents. Its scheduled twelve round fights meaning its scheduled to last but it can end early so you train to fight twelve rounds with a guy no matter his size. You dont hear any of the so called "smaller WW" complaining about these guys are too big to be in their division.

And as far as Williams, Marg, Cintron, and Clottey........when was the last time you heard about these guys struggling to make weight. Some people just can cut weight easy. Last time I check Williams weighed in at 145 his last fight at WW. Dont sound like he's struggling to me. Just cause your big doesn't mean you struggle to make weight.

SO PLEASE KILL THE TALK OF TWO DIVISIONS IN ONE. A WELTERWEIGHT IS A WELTERWEIGHT AND A HEAVYWEIGHT IS A HEAVYWEIGHT. HOLYFIELD NEVER COMPLAINED AND LOOK AT HIM!!!
salvador
QUOTE(3King3 @ Sep 30 2008, 08:54 PM) [snapback]405916[/snapback]
You dudes are killing me with this two divisions in one division stuff. They all fight in the same division making it ONE division. Thats like saying there is a big division 2 and a small division 2 in college football cause all the players at the big division 2 are way bigger than the players at the small division two. LOL such a bad analysist of the WW 147 pound division. So what if they come in the ring a heavier then their opponents. Its scheduled twelve round fights meaning its scheduled to last but it can end early so you train to fight twelve rounds with a guy no matter his size. You dont hear any of the so called "smaller WW" complaining about these guys are too big to be in their division.

And as far as Williams, Marg, Cintron, and Clottey........when was the last time you heard about these guys struggling to make weight. Some people just can cut weight easy. Last time I check Williams weighed in at 145 his last fight at WW. Dont sound like he's struggling to me. Just cause your big doesn't mean you struggle to make weight.

SO PLEASE KILL THE TALK OF TWO DIVISIONS IN ONE. A WELTERWEIGHT IS A WELTERWEIGHT AND A HEAVYWEIGHT IS A HEAVYWEIGHT. HOLYFIELD NEVER COMPLAINED AND LOOK AT HIM!!!


When one of the smaller guys beats one of the bigger guys, call me. Until then, use your fucking head.

And the smaller wws aren't complaining, they're just avoiding the bigger wws. Really, are you too fucking stupid to understand that? Did you watch Judah/Clottey, Marg/Cotto, Williams/Mitchell?
King Eugene
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 10:35 PM) [snapback]405928[/snapback]
When one of the smaller guys beats one of the bigger guys, call me. Until then, use your fucking head.

And the smaller wws aren't complaining, they're just avoiding the bigger wws. Really, are you too fucking stupid to understand that? Did you watch Judah/Clottey, Marg/Cotto, Williams/Mitchell?

Yea Dumb ass, a welterweight is a welterweight, not a welterweight 2X. So your telling me you have small middleweights and big middleweights as well and the smaller ones avoid the bigger ones. Please just not be bias and listen to yourself for a minute. It sounds so stupid to say small welterweights and big welterweights. Let me guess, they have a big welterweight WBC, IBF, WBO, belts and they have small ones too? LOL and Berto is the linear "Small" Welterweight Champ cause he is the only "Small" Welterweight with a belt. LMAO...get the fuck out of here. Oh and Diego Corralles was a "Big" Lightweight (or whatever division it was) when he fought Mayweather. So that made Mayweather the linear "Big" and "Small" Champ cause he fought a guy that put on 16 pounds before the fight. LOL you sound so damn retarded.

Oh and for the record Marg only beat Cotto cause he gassed. He would have lost if it wasn't for that and with Marg's strategy you didnt have to be a "BIG" WW to be Cotto, endurance, a good chin, and a high workrate is what beat him. Size had nothing to do with that fight.

Clottey beat Judah, cause he is an overall better fighter than Judah just like the "Small" WW's in Mayweather and Cotto.
salvador
QUOTE(3King3 @ Sep 30 2008, 10:56 PM) [snapback]405931[/snapback]
Yea Dumb ass, a welterweight is a welterweight, not a welterweight 2X. So your telling me you have small middleweights and big middleweights as well and the smaller ones avoid the bigger ones. Please just not be bias and listen to yourself for a minute. It sounds so stupid to say small welterweights and big welterweights. Let me guess, they have a big welterweight WBC, IBF, WBO, belts and they have small ones too? LOL and Berto is the linear "Small" Welterweight Champ cause he is the only "Small" Welterweight with a belt. LMAO...get the fuck out of here. Oh and Diego Corralles was a "Big" Lightweight (or whatever division it was) when he fought Mayweather. So that made Mayweather the linear "Big" and "Small" Champ cause he fought a guy that put on 16 pounds. LOL you sound so damn retarded.


So you honestly believe that Cotto has a chance against Williams? Do you honestly believe that Floyd (who bet $50k on Marg in the Cotto fight) turned down $8MM to fight Marg because he was inconsequential? - even though every commentator in the media was begging for the fight? Do you honestly believe that Judah, on his best night, could hurt Marg, Clottey or Williams?

Seriously, use your head. There's a reason these fights aren't happening. On paper, at least, you'd have to agree that a guy who's 5'6" with 67" reach would have a tough time competing with a guy 6'3" with an 82" reach and a 25 pound weight advantage, wouldn't you?

Did Cotto ever hurt Marg? Did Judah every hurt Clottey? Did Mitchell or Quintana ever hurt Williams? Would Floyd ever fight Marg or Williams?

If you're smart enough to type, you should be smart enough to recognize that a 15 pound weight advantage and a 6" reach advantage is consequential at ww. It's simple math.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 10:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
So you honestly believe that Cotto has a chance against Williams? Do you honestly believe that Floyd (who bet $50k on Marg in the Cotto fight) turned down $8MM to fight Marg because he was inconsequential? - even though every commentator in the media was begging for the fight? Do you honestly believe that Judah, on his best night, could hurt Marg, Clottey or Williams?

Seriously, use your head. There's a reason these fights aren't happening. On paper, at least, you'd have to agree that a guy who's 5'6" with 67" reach would have a tough time competing with a guy 6'3" with an 82" reach and a 25 pound weight advantage, wouldn't you?

Did Cotto ever hurt Marg? Did Judah every hurt Clottey? Did Mitchell or Quintana ever hurt Williams? Would Floyd ever fight Marg or Williams?

If you're smart enough to type, you should be smart enough to recognize that a 15 pound weight advantage and a 6" reach advantage is consequential at ww. It's simple math.

hahaha...Floyd beat De La Hoya soo shut up with this shit..End of discussion..Floyd would whoop Margarito..Williams would give Floyd a better fight than Margarito..Not because of height either..Should I call ya now and tell ya Quintana beat Williams??If ya really need to know how to get past a 82'' reach here it is..Williams will jab,you catch his jab with your right hand and while catching it step in with your left foot and throw your jab or double jab than you're in there..

Holyfield beat guys who were 50 lbs more than him..You are soo concerned about size ya forgot about skill..If you got skill you can/should be able to overcome any physical disadvantage..What about Chagaev when he beat Valuev??He was smaller by a foot and weighed 100+ lbs less then him..He beat him..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 10:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
So you honestly believe that Cotto has a chance against Williams? Do you honestly believe that Floyd (who bet $50k on Marg in the Cotto fight) turned down $8MM to fight Marg because he was inconsequential? - even though every commentator in the media was begging for the fight? Do you honestly believe that Judah, on his best night, could hurt Marg, Clottey or Williams?

Seriously, use your head. There's a reason these fights aren't happening. On paper, at least, you'd have to agree that a guy who's 5'6" with 67" reach would have a tough time competing with a guy 6'3" with an 82" reach and a 25 pound weight advantage, wouldn't you?

Did Cotto ever hurt Marg? Did Judah every hurt Clottey? Did Mitchell or Quintana ever hurt Williams? Would Floyd ever fight Marg or Williams?

If you're smart enough to type, you should be smart enough to recognize that a 15 pound weight advantage and a 6" reach advantage is consequential at ww. It's simple math.

How come now that Cotto lost he can't beat Williams??Before he lost everyone was saying Cotto would beat Williams,Mayweather,and everyone in the division..Really weird..I was one of the guys who always said Williams would beat Cotto but thats not the point..I know plenty of people on here who were all over Cotto's nuts and now they downplay him by saying he can't beat a guy who before he lost would beat with ease..
King Eugene
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
So you honestly believe that Cotto has a chance against Williams?

Yea, a damn good chance. Quintana beat him once and correct me if I'm wrong but didnt Cotto beat Quintana and if not do you seriously think Quintana is better than Cotto?

QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
Do you honestly believe that Floyd (who bet $50k on Marg in the Cotto fight) turned down $8MM to fight Marg because he was inconsequential? - even though every commentator in the media was begging for the fight?

No, I believe he turned it down to fight an easier fight with more money and a more recognizable belt. Sounds like the smart thing to do to me. 10M is worth more than 8M the last time I checked.

QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
Do you honestly believe that Judah, on his best night, could hurt Marg, Clottey or Williams?

A focused and discipline Judah may not hurt all of them but there is a possibility he could beat them. But the Judah of today wouldn't. The "Small" Shane could. And as far as the so called "Small" WW ducking the so called "Big" WW, check again. They all aren't runing or scared. http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=16179

QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
Seriously, use your head. There's a reason these fights aren't happening. On paper, at least, you'd have to agree that a guy who's 5'6" with 67" reach would have a tough time competing with a guy 6'3" with an 82" reach and a 25 pound weight advantage, wouldn't you?

Of course they would have a big challenge ahead of them. You make it seem like the shit is impossible. You, a big boxing fan yourself should know to never count any of these elite fighters out at this level cause there has been major upsets, surprises, and a whole lot of other impossibles made possible in boxing. Buster Douglas knocked out Tyson and say what you want you never would have though Tarver or Glen Johnson would have knocked out Roy. You may have wanted it to happen but in all actuality you never really believed it would happen until it happen. Hell there have been many other suprises way bigger than this in boxing. Leonard wasn't suppose to beat Hagler and Holyfield wasn't suppose to do as good as he did in the heavyweight division. All I'm saying is you cant count these so called "Small" WW's out. A WW is a damn WW no matter how much he weighs on fight night.

QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
Did Cotto ever hurt Marg? Did Judah every hurt Clottey? Did Mitchell or Quintana ever hurt Williams? Would Floyd ever fight Marg or Williams?

No but he was beating him pretty handidly until he gassed. Judah isn't hurting many WW's these days, Quintana beat Williams without hurting him, and Floyd would school Margarito. He doesn't have to hurt him to beat him. Hell he didn't hurt ODLH (which I truly believe ODLH would beat Margarito) to be him. You yourself should know you can win a boxing match without knocking your opponent out. "SWEET SCIENCE"

QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]405932[/snapback]
If you're smart enough to type, you should be smart enough to recognize that a 15 pound weight advantage and a 6" reach advantage is consequential at ww. It's simple math.

Hey thats your opinion and the logical thing to think but I'm not going to say your completely wrong but you sure as hell aren't completely right.

A WELTERWEIGHT IS A WELTERWEIGHT!!!
BigG
Quintana just didn't beat Williams, he was landing a shitload of big punches and beat Williams UP. I know what happened in the rematch but still...
salvador
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Sep 30 2008, 11:50 PM) [snapback]405936[/snapback]
How come now that Cotto lost he can't beat Williams??Before he lost everyone was saying Cotto would beat Williams,Mayweather,and everyone in the division..Really weird..I was one of the guys who always said Williams would beat Cotto but thats not the point..I know plenty of people on here who were all over Cotto's nuts and now they downplay him by saying he can't beat a guy who before he lost would beat with ease..


I never said that Cotto could beat Williams or Mayweather or Marg. In fact I argued vigorously with those who did because Cotto was too small for Williams and Marg, and because Floyd was way too fast and slick for Cotto. And as far as Floyd and DLH, the difference there is that Floyd is the fastest, most coordinated guy in the sport and DLH is a shell of his former self.

Cotto's game depends on his ability to outslug a guy, and in my mind that plan comes up short against bigger guys like Marg and Williams.

3King3, I would never completely count a top level fighter out of a fight with someone in his division and obviously Cotto could possibly get a ko over anyone in the division, I just think it's unlikely. And I think that it's even more unlikely now because I believe his confidence has been shaken and his entire fight plan depends on his bull like aggression. I doubt he's actually going to fight Clottey in Feb, but if he does we'll see how he fares.

And George, Quintana was a southpaw (I think Williams' first as a pro) and Williams had an off night - which he obviously proved. Mostly though, where did you get the idea that Quintana was beating Williams up? Quintana never hurt Williams and Williams didn't look like he'd taken any punishment at all after the fight - which I thought was close. Williams just looked like he'd taken a couple of valium before the fight.
BigG
He landed a high ammount of big winging punches, some which shook Paul up. In might not have been one-sided, but Paul was getting hit big and Quintana is not really a puncher.
BigG
Salvador, its funny you first said PWill would beat Floyd..then after Quintana schools PWill you say Floyd would be too much without a doubt..then now that PWill has 2 first round KOs you say he would punish Floyd. Do you really believe ANYONE would punish Floyd? Floyd has what it takes to beat anyone.
salvador
George,

You misunderstood me. I never said that Williams would beat Floyd - just that Floyd would never fight him. I've always thought that Floyd was the best out there and that he's too fast and too coordinated for anyone. But if anyone could beat him, it's Williams because of his size and because of the volume of his punches (same basic logic for Marg-Floyd). And Floyd knows that and that's why Floyd ain't never gonna fight him.

And that's the shitty thing about Floyd. He'll never get in the ring with anyone who has a chance of beating him - which is why comparing Floyd to SRR or anyone of that caliber is absurd.

Cotto ain't no Floyd. Floyd would fight Cotto all day all night and win 100% of the time - even before the Marg fight.
salvador
Actually George, you're right. I did say that Williams would beat Floyd "all day all night" and that was an overstatement in reaction to a spectacular performance. I think that Floyd would fight Williams from the outside and probably win a close and very boring fight on points - but that Floyd would get punished.

I stand corrected.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(salvador @ Sep 30 2008, 05:37 PM) [snapback]405897[/snapback]
Judah quit in the Clottey fight because he didn't want any more of the increasingly rough punishment. In my mind, that's stopping Judah.



Thats crazy.......Judah put on, perhaps, his best performance in 3 years............

I think your reaching a bit to prove what your saying......

PBF would expose Williams 2X as bad as a Quintana......It would be sad really........Im not saying he would dominate, but he would make him look completely average...

Cotto,...on the other hand, would have issues.....

Actually,....burn me if you may, but I see Berto giving Williams a real rough night.....

salvador
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Oct 1 2008, 04:56 PM) [snapback]406001[/snapback]
Thats crazy.......Judah put on, perhaps, his best performance in 3 years............


In the Clottey fight????
BoxingStill#1
Oh yeah,..Judah fought a hell of a fight before the stoppage.......

Clottey took advantage of that right hand lead........Which he landed whenever he wanted..

But other than that, Judah looked great........he came to fight and win....
salvador
Well, we disagree on that. To me the Clottey fight was the final confirmation that Zab just doesn't belong at 147 because he didn't have anything to hurt the much bigger man. On top of that, it was sad to see Zab quit when it seemed clear that he could have fought on.

Zab's fight with Cotto was his high water mark.
kidbazooka1
Im one of the guys who said Cotto would beat Willaims before the Marg fight and I still believe he can. Margarito has the style to beat Cotto I highly doubt Cotto would try to box the taller longer armed willaims the way he did Marg. Cotto would look to stay in the inside and pound away at Willaims body while smothering his punches.

I see Cotto stopping Williams with his body work. I also see Margarito starting faster in a rematch and beating Willaims aswell sh*t Margarito had him going late in the figt.
neophyte7
Berto is hype. He is fast, yet he gets credit for many punches that don't land cleanly by punchstat and HBO cheerleaders.2 pound Forbes was too small yet, gave Berto work. Berto is hittable as his defense is overrated. There was talk of him and Mosley... LOL. Mosley is strong has hell. He would KO Berto. Berto has yet to face a man that can punch with both hands and takes a great shot. Forbes takes a great shot, but is small and a light hitter historically. Berto would get his freakin face knocked off By Mosley...
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.