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ROLL DEEP
From what I've read, no one seems to have spoken in depth about Peter quitting.....most people have spoken about how good Kiltschko was.


For me, I was dissapointed in Peter for quitting. You can't just quit when you're involved in such a big fight and earning a lot of money.

He looked unprepared, had no clue about tactics to use and just sat there getting punched all fight. For a heavyweight champion, his performance and the way he quitted is a big dissapointment for me.

In fact, it SUCKED.

Its no way to act as the heavyweight champion.
salvador
The truth is that he ref could have just as easily stopped this fight as Peter had absolutely no chance and was getting busted up pretty badly round after round. And if the ref wasn't going to do it, his corner should have. That said, it's sad for the people of Nigeria and I don't think anyone will ever feel pressured to fight him before being considered hw champ.

Hopefully he saved enough money from his boxing career to buy a McDonalds so that he can work hard for the rest of his life and provide for his family and send his kids to college. All in all, it would be a pretty cool immigrant story if that turns out to be the case.
ROLL DEEP
But was it right for him to quit?

Was it acceptable?
WolfishPromistah
"But was it right for him to quit? Was it acceptable?"

Acceptable? Well I accept it, to one extent -- he's done at heavy.
It's time to know when it's time to go, son.

This is funny type stuff. On the one hand, I would love to support a view that a fighter is "smart" for knowing when he's over matched. However, the ideal, for me, is that he knows that before stepping into the ring in the first place against the threat. Apparently, Peter didn't, so he therefore paid by basically slaughtering his own reputation.

The idea that Peter will even be qualified as a contender in a PPV will be questioned. PPV numbers that would include him will be dismal, without doubt, so even the reward of potentially seeing him put soundly to sleep is not worth the price since no one will pay to chance it anyway. Overall, this poor performance cemented the end of Sam Peter's career in the heavy weight division of world class boxing, even though history has shown some guys came back and made pennies for themselves with a lighter challenge, before still quickly fading because there wasn't the same strength carried for the name there once was. If Peter could reinvent himself as a successful cruiser weight, however, "maybe" his trip can be a little longer.
salvador
Obviously it's not acceptable and it will stay with him for the rest of his (presumeably short) career. His will was broken and that's a character defining moment. He'll never be considered one of the greats. But I don't think anyone ever thought he was all that great to begin with.


Big Slim Sweet
I think his obvious lack of preparation was worse than his quitting on his stool.

Quitting on the stool is something that happens in boxing. Peter doing it was no worse than Tszyu or Freitas, etc.. Roberto Duran quit in a big fight. Joe Frazier too. Not saying I defend Peter quitting, but lots of guys have done it and will continue to do it. In some ways I understood Peter's decision. I mean, he had absolutely no chance of winning a single round against Vitali, let alone somehow pulling out the fight. I don't think there was any need or reason really for him to continue getting pummelled and humiliated and possibly knocked out just for the sake of pride or whatever. It didn't take away from Vitali's performance IMO. And even if Peter called himself a HW champion, anyone with an ounce of boxing knowledge knew that simply wasn't the case.

Personally what made me happiest about Peter quitting was that I didn't have to watch anymore.

As for Sam's preparation, well, that was disgraceful. He and his corner had no plan for even getting past Vitali's jab, which was the very first thing they should have been looking at. They had no idea how to win the fight and were obviously just counting on Vitali either being completely rusty and out of shape, or perhaps even pulling out with another injury and retiring. They didn't try and cut off the ring, didn't try to go to Vitali's ample body, nothing. They came for the payday, and maybe a trip to the Hofbrauhaus for some steins.

To me, that lack of preparation was far worse than Peter quitting on the stool when the outcome of the fight had already been clearly determined.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(WolfishPromistah @ Oct 16 2008, 10:47 AM) [snapback]407352[/snapback]
On the one hand, I would love to support a view that a fighter is "smart" for knowing when he's over matched. However, the ideal, for me, is that he knows that before stepping into the ring in the first place against the threat.

This would be another, more concise way of saying what I just said.
BigG
QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 16 2008, 03:51 PM) [snapback]407353[/snapback]
Obviously it's not acceptable and it will stay with him for the rest of his (presumeably short) career. His will was broken and that's a character defining moment. He'll never be considered one of the greats. But I don't think anyone ever thought he was all that great to begin with.


Sal, you put too much on quitting. You say Cotto will never be the same because he quit, etc... Well Duran quit against Leonard and look what he went on to do...have brutal fights with Moore, Hearns, Hagler, Benitez, Barkley..etc...
D-MARV
I dont blame Peter for Quiting!!! He was getting his ass whipped.

"You live to fight another day"
salvador
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 16 2008, 01:30 PM) [snapback]407360[/snapback]
Sal, you put too much on quitting. You say Cotto will never be the same because he quit, etc... Well Duran quit against Leonard and look what he went on to do...have brutal fights with Moore, Hearns, Hagler, Benitez, Barkley..etc...


Those are 3 very different fighers.

Duran was in a league all his own and he quit because he was frustrated rather than because he was beaten into submission.

Cotto was flat out beaten into submission by a bigger man inside his own division. I sincerely don't believe that Cotto will ever walk into the ring with any of the bigger wws (Marg, Williams, Clottey) KNOWING he can beat them down over 12 rounds like he KNEW he could before the Marg fight. Cotto is a different fighter whether you want to believe it or not. Maybe I'll be proven wrong next summer, but I doubt it.

And I don't think too much about Peter's quitting really. I think his carrer has been shortened because he's been exposed as a mediocre fighter and now there won't be the same demand to see him. Where are the big paydays for him now? That said, I don't think Peter will ever have the same swagger and I don't think he'll be in any kind of hurry to tell anyone how great he is becuase that beatdown was so one sided.

ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Oct 16 2008, 10:55 AM) [snapback]407354[/snapback]
I think his obvious lack of preparation was worse than his quitting on his stool.


To me, that lack of preparation was far worse than Peter quitting on the stool when the outcome of the fight had already been clearly determined.


Yeah, this pissed me off too.



He had nothing to give against Vitali....had he not bothered watching videos? Had he not bothered with 7ft sparring partners? Had he not trained? His footwork was poor, as was his guard, covering and head movement. A VERY bad showing for a heavyweight 'champion'.


He just lumbered forward, being crap and getting hit.




It can't have been that he was crap in the first place, as a lot of people were picking him to win, but when he started fighting, it was obvious who was going to win.
FenderDG3
First off, agree with what a lot of you have said. To an extent I think open scoring plays a big part in his quitting on the stool. Vitali was hitting him with everything but the kitchen sink so it's obviously not the only reason, and it was a very easy fight to score so the scores that were announced shouldn't have been a surprise. I think, and I'm sure many of you agree that this is one more reason not to have open scoring.
STEVENSKI
I was hoping this was about him quitting the sport because he would be no loss.
JonnyBlaze
Its never ok to quit..I really didn't like how Dino Duva saying it was the corner who stopped when you could hear Peter saying "No,No more"..Peter was definitely scarred to come out for the next round if ya ask me..He knew something real bad was comin his way..Klitchko had him completely softened up and ready to take out..Peter should of let the ref or corner stop it to show he is a real warrior and is never done till someone makes him have to stop..Do I blame Peter??No,he was getting a madddd beating but he should of showed what kinda guts he has..
King Eugene
Yea it wasn't Peter corner that called the fight, he said himself "no, no more."

I wont be as hard on him as some of you guys are but I wont say he is finished until I see him fight again. If his next performance is just as lackluster then I'll be right along with you guys saying he needs to forever say "NO MAS"!
BGv2.0
I have yet to see the fight....but have a very good idea of how it played out due to all I've read.

On the issue of quitting......you have to remember.....that is an individual idea as to what is and is not proper.

Many people feel completely justified in quiting if the odds seem against them. VK himself had this same issue all those years back with Byrd.

I don't at all think there is a right or wrong "answer" to the issue.....it's an individual one.

Roll.....you, yourself are a fighter....and I'll bet you would rather be KOd than quit.

That's the way I myself feel.....I'd rather have my ass beat to a bloody pulp than quit. It's just different mentality.

What I do not understand in relation to this situation was that Peter still had 4 rounds to work with....even though all he had done was set there and eat punches.....at the very least way not go out there and try the most dirty, rough house tactics you can pull out of your sleeve....not Tyonesque tactics that will get you DQed right away....but things like wrestling and low blows...something that could throw a guy off to at least let you get in one long shot hayemaker.

AND....if ya got DQd or KOd....at least you tried.


But for me....I'll ALWAYS respect a guy that goes out on his shield. Take the Tyson/Lewis fight for an example. From early on Mike KNEW he was in way over his head...BUT....he knew he was making millions and he took his beating like a man. The guy had blood spilling out of just about every hole in his body.....and I respected that.

He could have quit that fight a few rounds before and nobody would have blamed him....but he took it and even made a half attempt to appear to be trying to get up at the end....

I had nothing but respect for Mike in that fight.

NOW....VK...with Byrd....that's a whole other story.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(3King3 @ Oct 16 2008, 07:25 PM) [snapback]407395[/snapback]
Yea it wasn't Peter corner that called the fight, he said himself "no, no more."

I wont be as hard on him as some of you guys are but I wont say he is finished until I see him fight again. If his next performance is just as lackluster then I'll be right along with you guys saying he needs to forever say "NO MAS"!

He may not be done but he'll never be the same thats for sure..He was picking up some skills during the Toney fights,like a jab!!!haha..I think Peter isn't comfortable throwing jabs against taller guys even though thats the most important punch against taller guys to help close distance..If they are lazy jabs though,you're a dead man if your opponent has a good straight right..He should of also known to work on catching Klitchko's jab with his glove,not his face..Peter obviously was completely stripped of his confidence along with his belt though..I can't imagine what he thought when he watched the fight(if he was even able to)..You can get your confidence back,like I hope Cotto does but I think after a beating like Peter took,he'll never be back on that level of confidence..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Oct 17 2008, 03:20 AM) [snapback]407431[/snapback]
With that said I think there are two different type of quitters. You see some who quit because they have just received way too much and are hurt and just don't want to continue. Then you see others who may quit out of frustration because things are just too hard. I don't really respect the second type of quitters I mentioned. The ones who quit because they just think they can't do it.

This was a combo between your 2 types..He was taking a baddd beating and he was extremely frustrated..After rounds 4 and 8 they did open scoring..After they announced Peter not having won 1 round,Peter said no more..Who knows if it was because of the scores or not..I do think it was a combo though..Peter knew there was nothing he could do besides keep getting hit and not hit Vitali..
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE(Fitz @ Oct 17 2008, 03:20 AM) [snapback]407431[/snapback]
I didn't see the fight so I can't comment on this one, but I have mixed feelings and it's depending on the situation. I can't really hate on someone who quits. Sure I may think he doesn't have the true fighting spirit but who am I to say that what he did is wrong? He may have a family to support, wife and kids. That might be his priority and prefers to keep his health than have respect from fans.
I may not look up to them as high as I do as others as a fighter, but it doesn't mean it is wrong. You look at people like the recent Leavander Johnson. He quits 4 rounds earlier and we have people questioning him like we have now. He fights 4 rounds more and this happens to him we have people who question the system, the referee or what ever and are all sorry and wish he knew when to quit. It's basically a catch 22.
You have a fighter that quits, fight fans look down to him and question his heart and him as a fighter, but you must remember, this is the opinion from boxing fans. You go to regular people who don't follow boxing and they will probably praise that same guy for having brains for keeping his health. It just depends what is more important to that person, pride or just afraid to get hurt and want to keep there health.

With that said I think there are two different type of quitters. You see some who quit because they have just received way too much and are hurt and just don't want to continue. Then you see others who may quit out of frustration because things are just too hard. I don't really respect the second type of quitters I mentioned. The ones who quit because they just think they can't do it.



I have to slightly disagree with Johnny, it was totally the second option.

Sure the guy was getting hit but I've seen dudes take far more sustained beatings than that and keep on going.

To be honest Vitali wasn't even stepping it up to the kill level, more just laying it on him the same way he would to a sparring partner in a session.

THAT'S why Peter quit in my opinion, he knew he was getting an ass whupping but that VItali hadn't even got out of 2nd gear to do it.

Really it's been coming for a while. Remember what everyone was saying after the 1st Toney fight?

'Man if James had any pop at HW that guy would've been killed.'

And that was short, fat James Toney, who while probably my favourite all time fighter, at his age and in that condition shouldn't have been able to do that to the supposed saviour of the HW divison.

Take a peep at the fight on YouYube Fitz and I think you'll be pretty disappointed in the way Peter slimes out of this one. And Dino Duva is a bigger piece of shit than normal for trying to suggest otherwise.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Oct 17 2008, 04:56 AM) [snapback]407436[/snapback]
I have to slightly disagree with Johnny, it was totally the second option.

Sure the guy was getting hit but I've seen dudes take far more sustained beatings than that and keep on going.

To be honest Vitali wasn't even stepping it up to the kill level, more just laying it on him the same way he would to a sparring partner in a session.

THAT'S why Peter quit in my opinion, he knew he was getting an ass whupping but that VItali hadn't even got out of 2nd gear to do it.

Really it's been coming for a while. Remember what everyone was saying after the 1st Toney fight?

'Man if James had any pop at HW that guy would've been killed.'

And that was short, fat James Toney, who while probably my favourite all time fighter, at his age and in that condition shouldn't have been able to do that to the supposed saviour of the HW divison.

Take a peep at the fight on YouYube Fitz and I think you'll be pretty disappointed in the way Peter slimes out of this one. And Dino Duva is a bigger piece of shit than normal for trying to suggest otherwise.




Agreed. Watched the fight twice now, and like you say, Vitali didn't really step up another gear like he could've to force a stoppage/KO.


Peter was getting hit and getting hit clean....but it wasn't the type of BRUTAL beating that should've caused a fighter to quit, imo. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Peter, but I honestly think he didn't prepare properly, was getting frustrated, heard the open scoring and thought he'd take the easier option.

I've seen fighters fight through more punishment then Peter took....and I've also seen fighters turn up better prepared tactically.
Jack 1000
On Peter's Quitting:

Consider these factors,

Coming in, before the first bell, he looked like shit, he didn't try to change anything he did in the fight.

And this is another reason why Open Scoring can fuck off as far as I am concerned. With that optional WBC rule in effect, Sam was able to hear the scores and could have said, "Fuck this shit, I'm done!" Yea, I know that he was a beaten down fighter, but if conventional closed scoring was used, we could have seen a cool KO on a shit fight, and thanks to Open Scoring, we didn't even get that. Note I am not saying that Peter would have continued without Open Scoring, but the possibility exists that be hearing the scores it psychologically gave him an out.

Jack
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Oct 17 2008, 04:56 AM) [snapback]407436[/snapback]
I have to slightly disagree with Johnny, it was totally the second option.

Sure the guy was getting hit but I've seen dudes take far more sustained beatings than that and keep on going.

To be honest Vitali wasn't even stepping it up to the kill level, more just laying it on him the same way he would to a sparring partner in a session.

THAT'S why Peter quit in my opinion, he knew he was getting an ass whupping but that VItali hadn't even got out of 2nd gear to do it.

Really it's been coming for a while. Remember what everyone was saying after the 1st Toney fight?

'Man if James had any pop at HW that guy would've been killed.'

And that was short, fat James Toney, who while probably my favourite all time fighter, at his age and in that condition shouldn't have been able to do that to the supposed saviour of the HW divison.

Take a peep at the fight on YouYube Fitz and I think you'll be pretty disappointed in the way Peter slimes out of this one. And Dino Duva is a bigger piece of shit than normal for trying to suggest otherwise.

Dude you are right..Yet,we do slightly disagree..It all depends on how much punishment you think Klitchko delivered before the 8th..Klitchko normally softens his guys up before he brings on the real hard shit..Peter was softened up A LOT and the next round we would of seen Klitchko crank it up a notch..Peter was really messed up looking after that 8th round and must of been feeling like complete shit(more than a normal beating)..Peter got swelled up quicky from Klitchko but was lookin real bad after 8..He was looking like Arturo Gatti after a fight minus the cuts,lots of face swelling though..Klitchko dropped some bombs on him but was about to really lay it on..That's why I think it was a combo of the 2..Peter was hurting for sure,I can remember him getting stunned quite a bit by stuff Klitchko wasn't even throwing too hard..It did take a lot of guts to stay up from all that..He was completely softened up and ready to be put to sleep..Thats one thing I really like about him and Lennox Lewis,they would both soften guys up before taking them out..Of course they both had plenty of early KO's but they both liked to wait for the KO to appear and not just go for it..Smart boxing..
Imperius3
It depends on the situation, but I don't really see it as "quitting".

Sometimes it's a noble way of bowing out.
BigG
Peter was owned, he heard he was way down on the cards...but I don't like quitting at all..but if the guy is truly fucked up then I'll give him a pass. I would have liked to see Peter go down swinging but was just on his way to a brutal stoppage..probably round 10. Klitschko handed him his ass...
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 18 2008, 05:12 PM) [snapback]407522[/snapback]
Peter was owned, he heard he was way down on the cards...but I don't like quitting at all..but if the guy is truly fucked up then I'll give him a pass. I would have liked to see Peter go down swinging but was just on his way to a brutal stoppage..probably round 10. Klitschko handed him his ass...

Yup!!Peter was about to get destroyed..Ya kinda got to give him a pass but ya know he won't be as strong mentally after giving up like that..Cotto is the same way,ya wanna give him a pass too since he basically did quit(some will say it was his corner but he knew he was done)..Cotto won't be as strong mentally I think but in his case I do see him coming back and being successful..Yet,if he does get in a tough situation again,he may not want to go through with it since he has been there before and layed down instead of being put down(kinda like in State Property if any of ya have seen that movie)..The bitch way out(except in State Property you die if ya get put down)..hahaha..
Boxingjunkie
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Oct 16 2008, 10:55 AM) [snapback]407354[/snapback]
I think his obvious lack of preparation was worse than his quitting on his stool.



Personally what made me happiest about Peter quitting was that I didn't have to watch anymore.



To me, that lack of preparation was far worse than Peter quitting on the stool when the outcome of the fight had already been clearly determined.


You summed it up right there with three sentences. Peter started his decline before this fight. He has looked terrible in his last couple of fights. He looked terrible against an old Maskaev until he landed one big punch. He should have walked through Maskaev in one round.

Unless he can rededicate himself and get back to the Peter of old, he is probably done as a contender.
neophyte7
AMEN, peter is horrible. His funky ass style began to stink.. here is a guy who had no skills, just come forward with no head movment and try looping shots to the opponent's head. He made Vitali look likd Muhammad ALI--- He can take his ass back to Africa. He quit on his stool and should leave it at that.
salvador
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Oct 19 2008, 01:40 AM) [snapback]407629[/snapback]
Cotto is the same way,ya wanna give him a pass too since he basically did quit(some will say it was his corner but he knew he was done)..Cotto won't be as strong mentally I think but in his case I do see him coming back and being successful..


Cotto quit. When the ref started counting, Cotto looked at him like he (the ref) was from Mars.

Cotto will be successful against smaller fighters because in his mind he still believes that he'll be able to blow through them over 12 rounds. He'll be a very different fighter against the bigger guys. He'll be more of a boxer - which might be good, but I doubt it becuase he's so small and his arms are so short.
D-MARV
QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 19 2008, 05:49 PM) [snapback]407719[/snapback]
Cotto quit. When the ref started counting, Cotto looked at him like he (the ref) was from Mars.

Cotto will be successful against smaller fighters because in his mind he still believes that he'll be able to blow through them over 12 rounds. He'll be a very different fighter against the bigger guys. He'll be more of a boxer - which might be good, but I doubt it becuase he's so small and his arms are so short.

Cotto Quit?????????????

WTF?
No, his spirit was literally beaten out of him.

Does this look like a man who quit or was beaten? You tell me...
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Oct 19 2008, 06:48 PM) [snapback]407731[/snapback]
Cotto Quit?????????????

WTF?
No, his spirit was literally beaten out of him.

Does this look like a man who quit or was beaten? You tell me...

Cotto quit cause he was in hell..
D-MARV
Cotto's Body shutdown on him! The second knockdown was clearly his body giveing up on him! No way he quit! He just physically couldn't take anymore!
salvador
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Oct 19 2008, 09:05 PM) [snapback]407749[/snapback]
Cotto's Body shutdown on him! The second knockdown was clearly his body giveing up on him! No way he quit! He just physically couldn't take anymore!


There was no "second knockdown". Cotto was in one corner, then backtracked from one corner across the ring to the other without taking a single shot. And when he got to the corner and there was nowhere else to go, he took a knee before Marg had a chance to throw a punch. It was his heart that quit.



The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 19 2008, 10:36 PM) [snapback]407767[/snapback]
There was no "second knockdown". Cotto was in one corner, then backtracked from one corner across the ring to the other without taking a single shot. And when he got to the corner and there was nowhere else to go, he took a knee before Marg had a chance to throw a punch. It was his heart that quit.


You may say that it was his heart that quit but his face is telling me a different story. LOL
Big Slim Sweet
There is a difference between what Cotto did and what Peter did. Cotto gave it his all until he literally had no more to give. Peter said, 'fuck it, I can't win.'

Cotto gave up. Peter quit. I think there's a difference. I don't look down on either man for what happened, but Cotto's actions were certainly more admirable/less deplorable than Peter's.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Oct 20 2008, 11:22 AM) [snapback]407811[/snapback]
There is a difference between what Cotto did and what Peter did. Cotto gave it his all until he literally had no more to give. Peter said, 'fuck it, I can't win.'

Cotto gave up. Peter quit. I think there's a difference. I don't look down on either man for what happened, but Cotto's actions were certainly more admirable/less deplorable than Peter's.

I agree. I think Peter had plenty left but he quit because he knew he couldn't do nothing.

Cotto just couldn't go anymore! I doubt he would quit. Especially, if he may have had the lead at the time of the stoppage
BigG
There was about 1:30 left in the round and Cotto had NOTHING left. I don't see why the referee even allowed that to go on. The man was exhausted/beaten down/busted face/broken nose and obviously had nothing left.
Jack 1000
How can anyone compare the classic Margarito-Cotto fight to the fucking pile of shit that was Vitali-Peter? And all of the shit came from Peter's unmotivated, untrained ass? I read other comments on this board and others to gage a worldly representation of what communities think. Some say that Peter just could not handle the taller Vitali, and underestimated what Vitali was still capable of doing after the long lay off. Others compared it to Peter taking a dive. Still others say Peter just wasn't there. I have sort of backed off my Seldon and Tyson feelings on Peter. Those guys literally fell without being hit and Peter went in to be a punching bag for eight rounds. But what doesn't change is neither Peter nor his corner changed his strategy. The obviously didn't care about winning the fight.

Jack
salvador
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Oct 20 2008, 12:25 PM) [snapback]407821[/snapback]
Cotto just couldn't go anymore! I doubt he would quit. Especially, if he may have had the lead at the time of the stoppage


It's not debatable. Cotto was on his feet, had the wherewithal to get himself across the ring with ease without taking a single shot (he was kind of skipping backwards), saw Margarito closing in on him, and then decided to take a knee. I'm not comparing that with what Peter did, but Cotto definitely could have taken a few more punches before being physically unable to continue, but instead chose to quit. It's just a fact.

When I look at guys like Vargas in the Tito fight or Azumah Nelson in the Sanchez fight, it's hard to imagine that either of those guys would have taken a knee when Cotto did.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 20 2008, 10:09 PM) [snapback]407870[/snapback]
When I look at guys like Vargas in the Tito fight or Azumah Nelson in the Sanchez fight, it's hard to imagine that either of those guys would have taken a knee when Cotto did.


Thats cause they are not Puto Rican laugh.gif .
salvador
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Oct 20 2008, 08:20 PM) [snapback]407885[/snapback]
Thats cause they are not Puto Rican laugh.gif .


I know you're kidding, but I wonder how accepting the Mexican fans would have been if Marg had taken the same knee.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 21 2008, 01:47 AM) [snapback]407887[/snapback]
I know you're kidding, but I wonder how accepting the Mexican fans would have been if Marg had taken the same knee.


They would not have had to as Margarito is a warrior who would go out on his shield rather than take a knee. Mexicans know what being warriors is about Puto Ricans get daddy to throw in the towel. It is almost a genetic trait amongst them.
BigG
What about Australia? haha.gif
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Oct 20 2008, 10:32 PM) [snapback]407892[/snapback]
They would not have had to as Margarito is a warrior who would go out on his shield rather than take a knee. Mexicans know what being warriors is about Puto Ricans get daddy to throw in the towel. It is almost a genetic trait amongst them.

hahahahahahha
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 21 2008, 03:50 AM) [snapback]407893[/snapback]
What about Australia? haha.gif


What about the #1 P4P sporting nation on earth? Hell man we kick our own harder than a Hatton ball shot when they lose.

Puto Ricans quit in fights all the time. They seem to relish in it. Look at Toto their biggest hero/zero. he is a quitter & when he got Philly pimp slapped he ran home & stopped turning tricks for DKP. He let guys like Winky & Roid humiliate him & was flat out showerblocked by Hopkins.
salvador
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Oct 20 2008, 11:32 PM) [snapback]407892[/snapback]
They would not have had to as Margarito is a warrior who would go out on his shield rather than take a knee. Mexicans know what being warriors is about Puto Ricans get daddy to throw in the towel. It is almost a genetic trait amongst them.


that's funny as hell!
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 20 2008, 05:09 PM) [snapback]407870[/snapback]
It's not debatable. Cotto was on his feet, had the wherewithal to get himself across the ring with ease without taking a single shot (he was kind of skipping backwards), saw Margarito closing in on him, and then decided to take a knee. I'm not comparing that with what Peter did, but Cotto definitely could have taken a few more punches before being physically unable to continue, but instead chose to quit. It's just a fact.

When I look at guys like Vargas in the Tito fight or Azumah Nelson in the Sanchez fight, it's hard to imagine that either of those guys would have taken a knee when Cotto did.

Cotto might have been able to take a few more punches, but I don't think he could have been able to throw a few more punches. It's like staring at the chess board and seeing your opponent has check-mated you. He had done all he could and it was over and he knew it. That's not the same as Sam Peter, who saw he was outclassed and simply said fuck it.

Also Sal, you've been talking quite a bit here about there's no way Cotto will ever be the same fighter again after this loss, but then you compare him unfavorably to Vargas in the Tito fight? I realize I'm making a slight leap in logic here but still, do you think that taking it as far as Vargas did would have been better for Cotto's future?
BigG
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Oct 21 2008, 05:52 AM) [snapback]407900[/snapback]
What about the #1 P4P sporting nation on earth? Hell man we kick our own harder than a Hatton ball shot when they lose.

Puto Ricans quit in fights all the time. They seem to relish in it. Look at Toto their biggest hero/zero. he is a quitter & when he got Philly pimp slapped he ran home & stopped turning tricks for DKP. He let guys like Winky & Roid humiliate him & was flat out showerblocked by Hopkins.


What did you do to Tszyu when he quit against Fatton of all people? FATTON...
salvador
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Oct 21 2008, 11:33 AM) [snapback]407921[/snapback]
Cotto might have been able to take a few more punches, but I don't think he could have been able to throw a few more punches. It's like staring at the chess board and seeing your opponent has check-mated you. He had done all he could and it was over and he knew it. That's not the same as Sam Peter, who saw he was outclassed and simply said fuck it.

Also Sal, you've been talking quite a bit here about there's no way Cotto will ever be the same fighter again after this loss, but then you compare him unfavorably to Vargas in the Tito fight? I realize I'm making a slight leap in logic here but still, do you think that taking it as far as Vargas did would have been better for Cotto's future?


I never said that it was a bad idea for Cotto to quit, just that he quit. The truth is that his corner should have thrown in the towel, but they didn't and Cotto had to face the indignity of quitting. He had to face the truth that he had been separated from his will by a bigger stronger man.

The reason Cotto will never be the same again is because his confidence was shattered. He landed EVERYTHING he had right on Marg's chin and yet Marg kept punishing him. Cotto will never have the same confidence in his power when fighting the bigger wws. That makes him a different fighter than the guy who walked into the ring that night.

Vargas is an entirely different situation. His chin got permanently cracked in the first round of the Tito fight. But the thing is, Vargas got up and toughed it out regardless of the danger. And even though he lost that fight and pretty much every other big fight he was ever in, I think Vargas might be the most beloved guy in the sport just for that one performance alone. That's how fighters get into the hearts of boxing fans.

Careerwise, Cotto is in better shape to fight again because he quit. But I think that if he'd pulled a Vargas he probably would have made more fans that night.

It's impossible to put a pricetag on blind, stupid, in your face bravery, and boxing is the only sport in the world where that's a real possibility every time out.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 21 2008, 03:45 PM) [snapback]407923[/snapback]
What did you do to Tszyu when he quit against Fatton of all people? FATTON...


We cancelled his citizenship & shipped his arse back to Russia. What did you think we did call him a brave warrior & gave him a welcome home loser parade?
JonnyBlaze
I don't think you can take that against Tsyzu by quitting against Hatton..The stuff he did for the sport was huge..I think he just knew that it was his time to go away from the sport..Why do ya say that losing to Hatton is a bad thing??I don't think it is..He had good hand speed,quick footwork,and good power..Yeah,he did a lot of mauling in that fight which I think kinda helped break down Tsyzu..Before Hatton started this wrestling/grabbing shit I really liked him..He is a great body puncher..
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