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Full Version: James Toney vs. Archie Moore
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JonnyBlaze
Who do ya all think would win this dream match-up at 175 lbs??Toney's best weight was 168 but anything around that weight I'd consider his prime..He'd move up and down all the time around that time soo it doesn't really matter..I def. got to think about this one but I wanna know who you all think would win..I like both of em a lot soo it makes it even tougher..It'd be a great fight..If I gotta pick someone now I'd go with Archie based mostly on that I like him more..Archie is the original mongoose!!I also think that Archie is the best light heavy ever even though Ezzard Charles beat him at light heavy..I think it was just a styles thing..Archie and Ezzard both had styles that were really unique and could give anyone a problem,just like Toney these days..

Let me know who ya pick and why..I'll post who I've decided to offically pick later..
Spyder
James Toney lost to Montel Griffen TWICE at light-heavy...nuff said.

Mongoose ALL up in dat ass!
BrutalBodyShots
All James Toney mythical matchups have to come with the same qualifier that Hasim Rahman, Zab Judah, etc fights come with...

... an in shape, FOCUSED Toney ... right?

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Oct 27 2008, 04:29 PM) [snapback]408443[/snapback]
All James Toney mythical matchups have to come with the same qualifier that Hasim Rahman, Zab Judah, etc fights come with...

... an in shape, FOCUSED Toney ... right?

This fight would be both of them at their best..Like I said,I consider Toney to be at his best at 168 but I think 175 is no different for him besides the loses to Griffen..

After thinking about it more while in class(it was real boring soo I had spare time),I gotta go with Archie..I don't think I could go against Archie in any fight..If him and Ezzard fought another time back then I'd pick Archie still!!haha..I can't get enough of watchin him..His style is def. one of my top 5 favs..
King Eugene
QUOTE(Spyder @ Oct 27 2008, 04:53 PM) [snapback]408441[/snapback]
James Toney lost to Montel Griffen TWICE at light-heavy...nuff said.

Mongoose ALL up in dat ass!

LMAO...man you a fool. haha.gif haha.gif haha.gif
Damn how in the hell did he lose to Griffen

Still give me Toney on this one.
D-MARV
I dont have much film on Archie Moore! In fact, the only film I have on him is when he got his ass KTFO! I would have to study him more be fore I made a decision
Mean Mister Mustard
Old Man Moore had a lot of tricks up his sleeve along with his punching power so Toney would not have the edge in ring intelligence here.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(3King3 @ Oct 27 2008, 10:28 PM) [snapback]408503[/snapback]
LMAO...man you a fool. haha.gif haha.gif haha.gif
Damn how in the hell did he lose to Griffen

Still give me Toney on this one.


I remember both fights with Griffen. Griffen was an undefeated fighter who I think had the great Eddie Futch in his corner also at the time. He frustrated Toney in both fights, which were both very close fights and could have gone either way. Do not forget the same Montell Griffin then beat Roy Jones by DQ too. He gave Roy a very difficult time in there for a while before Roy hurt him and hit him while he was down to lose. Griffin was a damn good fighter at the time.

Toney, my all time favorite fighter, was a very erratic fighter. You just never knew who would show up. But at his very best, he could have beat anyone in any era.
King Eugene
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Oct 27 2008, 11:36 PM) [snapback]408524[/snapback]
I remember both fights with Griffen. Griffen was an undefeated fighter who I think had the great Eddie Futch in his corner also at the time. He frustrated Toney in both fights, which were both very close fights and could have gone either way. Do not forget the same Montell Griffin then beat Roy Jones by DQ too. He gave Roy a very difficult time in there for a while before Roy hurt him and hit him while he was down to lose. Griffin was a damn good fighter at the time.

Toney, my all time favorite fighter, was a very erratic fighter. You just never knew who would show up. But at his very best, he could have beat anyone in any era.

LOL yea it was kind of a rethorical question. I saw the fights. I just wish he wouldn't have lost. Yea Griffen was posing trouble for Jones for a while but it wasn't going to go the distance. Fight two proved that.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(3King3 @ Oct 27 2008, 11:40 PM) [snapback]408526[/snapback]
LOL yea it was kind of a rethorical question. I saw the fights. I just wish he wouldn't have lost. Yea Griffen was posing trouble for Jones for a while but it wasn't going to go the distance. Fight two proved that.


Yeah, I was pissed when Toney lost those fights. I remember Griffen-Jones 2, I was too cheap to pay for the PPV, but ended up watching/listening on scrambled tv and could not believe he destroyed him in the first round. Maybe we will see that R.J against Calzaghe laugh.gif
BigG
Griffin was very underrated...give the guy credit for being a 5'7 Light-Heavyweight and giving RJJ/Toney fits...he was a really smart technician...
King Eugene
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Oct 28 2008, 12:11 AM) [snapback]408536[/snapback]
Griffin was very underrated...give the guy credit for being a 5'7 Light-Heavyweight and giving RJJ/Toney fits...he was a really smart technician...

I'll give him a little credit cause he was such a small guy with a big heart. But after he got KO'ed a couple of months ago in Chicago by a no name, he is a laughing stock to me.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Oct 27 2008, 09:48 PM) [snapback]408512[/snapback]
Old Man Moore had a lot of tricks up his sleeve along with his punching power so Toney would not have the edge in ring intelligence here.

I completely agree with this..Archie def. had more power than Toney..SHIT,Archie put down Marciano at heavyweight!!!!I also think Archie would have a very slight edge on ring intelligence too..

Biggeorge you're also right about Griffen..5'7 light heavy is crazy..He had a huge size disadvantage to make up for which he did..Griffen has been done though 3King3..He lost the fight in the Chi but he hasn't been his old self in awhile..He's 38 now and should just retire instead of losing worthless fights..Same thing happened to Tyson but Tyson was poor..
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Oct 27 2008, 10:36 PM) [snapback]408524[/snapback]
I remember both fights with Griffen. Griffen was an undefeated fighter who I think had the great Eddie Futch in his corner also at the time. He frustrated Toney in both fights, which were both very close fights and could have gone either way. Do not forget the same Montell Griffin then beat Roy Jones by DQ too. He gave Roy a very difficult time in there for a while before Roy hurt him and hit him while he was down to lose. Griffin was a damn good fighter at the time.

Toney, my all time favorite fighter, was a very erratic fighter. You just never knew who would show up. But at his very best, he could have beat anyone in any era.

Montell Griffen in his heyday should not be dismissed. He was a very difficult fighter. I myself never saw their first fight but I felt Toney took the rematch. If I recall, Lederman had it 117-111 for Toney as well. Not that Lederman's card means shit.

I agree with the last part of this post too. Toney had both the skillset and the mindset to beat any fighter from any era on his best day. Not saying he would necessarilly, just that he could. In a mythical matchup where you automatically assume best versus best he can never be dismissed.
JonnyBlaze
Toney can hang with any fighter of any era for sure!!!I don't think anyone has it in them to KO him..Archie would be my main guy if I had to pick who'd be able to KO Toney around the weight 175..Ya need someone craftly like him to KO him..Yet,I don't think anyone would KO him either way..He knows how to take a lot out of your punch if you're going to hit him,95% of the time..It's rare to see him hit flush in a fight..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Oct 28 2008, 12:10 PM) [snapback]408567[/snapback]
Montell Griffen in his heyday should not be dismissed. He was a very difficult fighter. I myself never saw their first fight but I felt Toney took the rematch. If I recall, Lederman had it 117-111 for Toney as well. Not that Lederman's card means shit.

I agree with the last part of this post too. Toney had both the skillset and the mindset to beat any fighter from any era on his best day. Not saying he would necessarilly, just that he could. In a mythical matchup where you automatically assume best versus best he can never be dismissed.


Now that you mention it, the rematch I thought Toney was going to get the nod, but the judges gave it to Griffin again. I used to agree with Harold alot, but the last couple of years I think sometimes he is losing it.
King Eugene
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Oct 28 2008, 03:56 PM) [snapback]408589[/snapback]
Now that you mention it, the rematch I thought Toney was going to get the nod, but the judges gave it to Griffin again. I used to agree with Harold alot, but the last couple of years I think sometimes he is losing it.

Harold doesn't have it all anymore. I remember once, one of my friends suggested we take shots after each round if your fighter lost that round from Harolds judging....shitting me if I went through with that one. LMAO
JonnyBlaze
Harold just needs laser eye surgery..
BigG
Harold ONLY had Mayweather up by 2 points at the Hatton fight...
JonnyBlaze
Back to the subject,I've been thinking about it and I think P4P Archie Moore was one of the biggest punchers..Ya gotta give him credit for that,no doubt..Hell,he has the KO record..131 KOs..
Spyder
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Oct 30 2008, 08:40 AM) [snapback]408767[/snapback]
Back to the subject,I've been thinking about it and I think P4P Archie Moore was one of the biggest punchers..Ya gotta give him credit for that,no doubt..Hell,he has the KO record..131 KOs..

A lot of those KO's came at heavyweight too!!
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Oct 30 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]408799[/snapback]
A lot of those KO's came at heavyweight too!!

Exactly!!I actually would go so far as saying P4P the best puncher..
Spyder
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Oct 30 2008, 04:42 PM) [snapback]408800[/snapback]
Exactly!!I actually would go so far as saying P4P the best puncher..

That's tough to argue. He's definitely one of the best, although there's been so many great punchers...it's hard to choose one over the other in a p4p sense.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Oct 30 2008, 03:49 PM) [snapback]408804[/snapback]
That's tough to argue. He's definitely one of the best, although there's been so many great punchers...it's hard to choose one over the other in a p4p sense.

For sure,it'd all come down to opinion or your personal favorite puncher..
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