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1zz
Look Calzaghe is most likely going into retire so let Hopkins and Dawson battle it out for the Ring belt.

Lil-lightsout
Yeah, atleast Hopkins would actually get in the ring with Dawson.
D-MARV
Dawson would beat any Light Heavy right now!
caneman
One thing is for sure, it would show what Chad really has...I don't think Chad is unbeatable as I actually had Glen Coffee beating him by 1 round myself.
JD
The only problem here is that Calzaghe is the Light Heavyweight king by virtue of beating Hopkins earlier this year.
neophyte7
He was awarded the victory... but he did not do any beating whatsoever...
Fitz
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 15 2008, 05:59 AM) [snapback]411045[/snapback]
The only problem here is that Calzaghe is the Light Heavyweight king by virtue of beating Hopkins earlier this year.


That's what I was thinking.
JD
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Nov 14 2008, 06:03 PM) [snapback]411059[/snapback]
He was awarded the victory... but he did not do any beating whatsoever...


Whether you or I feel Hopkins won, it was a draw or Calzaghe won has zero relevance whatsoever. I don't remember my exact card, but I either had it a draw, or a one point win for Calzaghe (I believe the latter).

Calzaghe is the light heavyweight champion.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 14 2008, 07:08 PM) [snapback]411061[/snapback]
Whether you or I feel Hopkins won, it was a draw or Calzaghe won has zero relevance whatsoever. I don't remember my exact card, but I either had it a draw, or a one point win for Calzaghe (I believe the latter).

Calzaghe is the light heavyweight champion.



The sad fact is this.........Calzaghe would lose to the following:

A Prime Jones (no problem)
A Prime Hopkins (even now if Bernard actually EXECUTED his game plan for Calzaghe)
Pavlik ( Easy victory for Kelly, Early Knock out.....Joe KNOWS this.)

He would have problems with:

Tarver
Dawson
Johnson
Even Wright!

All of which would have got beat by a 'Prime' Jones........

Point #1: Calzaghe has'nt proved anything to me yet,.....The only round where Jones actually fought....Joe was clearly outclassed!!!!...imagine a prime Jones......It would have been sad really..... black eye.gif.....Ha! the same wiht Bernard!

Point #2: Has anyone other than me noticed Joe has a GLASS JAW??? All of the fighters mentioned, with the exception of Wright, pack a serious punch......Shit even Kessler had Calzaghe hurt......Can somebody PLEASE finish this prick? What seems to be the problem?....Why does everyone get excited when the have Joe hurt?.. Its reminds me of Zab when he gets wild.....

Point #3: Joe will not give us the opportunity to find out.....No B-hop rematch,....No Dawson,....Definately no Pavlik......
JD
You should probably review what a fact is - those are not facts.

The FACT is that Joe Calzaghe is the light heavyweight champion because he beat the man that beat the man.

I do not like Calzaghe in the least, he irritates the ever living shit out of me...but some of you dudes are over emotional and try to pass of your hopes, wishes, dreams...whatever...as facts, when in fact, there is nothing factual about what you are saying.

Do I think Calzaghe would beat a prime Jones? Eh...no.
Prime Hopkins? Nope.
Prime Toney? Nah ah.

But these are my opinions, they are not facts...

As for this quote:

QUOTE
Calzaghe has'nt proved anything to me yet,.....The only round where Jones actually fought....Joe was clearly outclassed!!!!


LMFAO!!!! Does it make you fell better to think that? Cal put it on an old, faded Roy...and even carried him, but at no point was he outclassed. Jesus Christ, some of you guys watch shit, and disregard what it is you see just so you aren't forced to think, or actually alter your what your view was prior to seeing what you just watched.

Calzaghe is a hell of a fighter...give him some credit.
King Eugene
At the end of the day Calzaghe is still the champ. No matter weather we like it or not he officially beat Jones and Hopkins. He will retire thinking thats enough to seal his legacy.

Hopkins vs. Dawson is a long shot but still a shot.
JD
QUOTE(3King3 @ Nov 14 2008, 09:19 PM) [snapback]411080[/snapback]
At the end of the day Calzaghe is still the champ. No matter weather we like it or not he officially beat Jones and Hopkins.


Exactly.

I am not really sure why some people want to debate this...or even try to throw qualifiers at it...

"Roy didn't try"..."It was the cut"...blah blah blah blah. Calzaghe won, it is what it is.
Fitz
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Nov 15 2008, 01:02 PM) [snapback]411076[/snapback]
The sad fact is this.........Calzaghe would lose to the following:

A Prime Jones (no problem)
A Prime Hopkins (even now if Bernard actually EXECUTED his game plan for Calzaghe)
Pavlik ( Easy victory for Kelly, Early Knock out.....Joe KNOWS this.)

He would have problems with:

Tarver
Dawson
Johnson
Even Wright!

All of which would have got beat by a 'Prime' Jones........

Point #1: Calzaghe has'nt proved anything to me yet,.....The only round where Jones actually fought....Joe was clearly outclassed!!!!...imagine a prime Jones......It would have been sad really..... black eye.gif.....Ha! the same wiht Bernard!

Point #2: Has anyone other than me noticed Joe has a GLASS JAW??? All of the fighters mentioned, with the exception of Wright, pack a serious punch......Shit even Kessler had Calzaghe hurt......Can somebody PLEASE finish this prick? What seems to be the problem?....Why does everyone get excited when the have Joe hurt?.. Its reminds me of Zab when he gets wild.....

Point #3: Joe will not give us the opportunity to find out.....No B-hop rematch,....No Dawson,....Definately no Pavlik......


I don't like Calzaghe either, and I find a lot of thing to criticise him for, but you make unfair and bias arguments. The guys you mentioned in your list as guys Calzaghe would have trouble with, well they are guys MOST fighters will have trouble with.
What's with "shit even Kessler had Calzaghe hurt"? Kessler hits hard and Calzaghe has more right to probably be hurt from Calzaghe than Hopkins or Jones. You still sound angry and make bias arguments that even a Calzaghe hater like myself can see through.
BigG
QUOTE
Calzaghe is a hell of a fighter...give him some credit


I give him credit, doesn't change the fact the is an overrated slapper
JD
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Nov 14 2008, 09:49 PM) [snapback]411085[/snapback]
I give him credit, doesn't change the fact the is an overrated slapper


If it makes you feel better to say that, OK.

I do not like the guy, but I wouldn't call him overrated...especially when you look at how many people talk about what he isn't, as opposed to what he is. And G, you too will need to look up the word "fact".
JD
Side note...

I hate you bastards for making me feel like I am defending Joe Calzaghe here...all because you guys hate on his annoying ass.
The CEO
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 14 2008, 10:08 PM) [snapback]411087[/snapback]
Side note...

I hate you bastards for making me feel like I am defending Joe Calzaghe here...all because you guys hate on his annoying ass.


laugh.gif
King Eugene
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 14 2008, 10:08 PM) [snapback]411087[/snapback]
Side note...

I hate you bastards for making me feel like I am defending Joe Calzaghe here...all because you guys hate on his annoying ass.

laugh.gif Admit it, deep down in side you got a thing for him.
BrutalBodyShots
Everyone makes fun of Joe's awkward, sloppy style... his "slaps" etc... but the guy wins fights, bottom line. Whether or not you think he officially beat Hopkins, even those that have Hopkins winning that fight basically had it 6-6 in rounds with Hopkins winning with the knockdown point... so they were even in rounds. How many other guys out there do you think would win 6 or more rounds against Hopkins?

As for Jones, yeah he's faded as shit... but Joe won all but round 1 against him. Take any other fighter today and put him in there against that same shot Jones (dare I say even Hopkins) and would they pitch a 11-1 or 12-0 shutout against that shot Jones? What does that say? Not all too bad for a sloppy slapper, right?

BigG
JD..its okay you can admit you're a fan of Joe ...I am a still a fan of Zahir Raheem.

And Brutal...Johnson pitched a shutout before KNOCKING Roy Jones out. Jones is shot and Calzaghe is a ackward slapsman
D-MARV
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 15 2008, 03:31 AM) [snapback]411103[/snapback]
Everyone makes fun of Joe's awkward, sloppy style... his "slaps" etc... but the guy wins fights, bottom line. Whether or not you think he officially beat Hopkins, even those that have Hopkins winning that fight basically had it 6-6 in rounds with Hopkins winning with the knockdown point... so they were even in rounds. How many other guys out there do you think would win 6 or more rounds against Hopkins?

As for Jones, yeah he's faded as shit... but Joe won all but round 1 against him. Take any other fighter today and put him in there against that same shot Jones (dare I say even Hopkins) and would they pitch a 11-1 or 12-0 shutout against that shot Jones? What does that say? Not all too bad for a sloppy slapper, right?

I Hate to bag on Roy, BUT I think there are a few fighters that would pitch shutouts on Roy. Johson and Dawson to name a few! They wouldn't have have played with Roy like Calzaghe did but They would pitch shutouts! Also, Johnson KO'd Roy... Calzaghe didn't even hurt Roy let alone knock him out...


But again, I give Calzaghe credit for this win! Im not surprised that he won by a wide margin but I didn't think he would toy with Roy the way he did.
1zz
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Nov 15 2008, 11:33 AM) [snapback]411108[/snapback]
I Hate to bag on Roy, BUT I think there are a few fighters that would pitch shutouts on Roy. Johson and Dawson to name a few! They wouldn't have have played with Roy like Calzaghe did but They would pitch shutouts! Also, Johnson KO'd Roy... Calzaghe didn't even hurt Roy let alone knock him out...
But again, I give Calzaghe credit for this win! Im not surprised that he won by a wide margin but I didn't think he would toy with Roy the way he did.


What the fuck were you watching? LOL

I guess the real reason he went to hospital straight after the fight was to get a flu shot huh.
JD
QUOTE(3King3 @ Nov 14 2008, 11:58 PM) [snapback]411090[/snapback]
laugh.gif Admit it, deep down in side you got a thing for him.


I got a thing for logic and reason. Some of the over emotional dudes around here throw that shit out the window in the same way they pan Jim Lampley for doing it.

QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Nov 15 2008, 04:08 AM) [snapback]411104[/snapback]
JD..its okay you can admit you're a fan of Joe ...I am a still a fan of Zahir Raheem.


Like I said, a fan of logic and reason. Deluded and / or biased people sometimes get confused. I won't hold it against you.
BigG
Look, I'll say that Joe is a great fighter in THIS era....he proved he's a hell of a fighter against Lacy, Kessler and even Bernard Hopkins.

But hate aside..I did have Bernard winning a close fight against Calz because of the KD.

Calzgahe is at least one of the top 4 fighters in the world along with Hopkins, Pacman, Marquez.
JD
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Nov 15 2008, 08:54 AM) [snapback]411113[/snapback]
Look, I'll say that Joe is a great fighter in THIS era....he proved he's a hell of a fighter against Lacy, Kessler and even Bernard Hopkins.

But hate aside..I did have Bernard winning a close fight against Calz because of the KD.

Calzgahe is at least one of the top 4 fighters in the world along with Hopkins, Pacman, Marquez.


Some people had Hopkins by a point or so, I can see that. Like I said, I think I had Cal by a point...or even a draw, I do no recall, because the fight was so uninspiring, and I found myself fine with the decision.

As far as eras go...I really try not to look too hard at that kind of stuff until a guys career is over.

Is Calzaghe a first ballot hall of famer? I think so.
Is he a top P4P fighter? Again...I think so.
Is he an all time boxing icon? To me, absolutely not...but I am not from Wales.
BigG
Calzaghe is a HOFer for sure. I mean, you can't deny that. The fact that he is the greatest SMW of all time should get him in.

I clown around sometimes with the hate...I really DO respect the hell out of Calzaghe as a GREAT of our time (I respect anyone that steps in the ring).
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Nov 15 2008, 04:08 AM) [snapback]411104[/snapback]
And Brutal...Johnson pitched a shutout before KNOCKING Roy Jones out. Jones is shot and Calzaghe is a ackward slapsman


Actually the official judges had it 6-2, 5-3 and 5-3 in rounds (all with Johnson ahead obviously) at the time the fight was stopped... so Jones was credited with winning more rounds against Johnson than he was against Calzaghe.

So who else today aside from the Slapster do you think would win 11 or 12 rounds against Jones? Certainly there must be a ton of guys out there if the Slappy one can win 11, right?

D-MARV
QUOTE(1zz @ Nov 15 2008, 07:30 AM) [snapback]411111[/snapback]
What the fuck were you watching? LOL

I guess the real reason he went to hospital straight after the fight was to get a flu shot huh.


Sure... Calzaghe was punching the daylights out of Roy but never once was did Roy appear to be out on his feet or even stunned in that matter!

Point being... I give Calzaghe props fo this win but he's not the only onethat could have that kind of performance against Roy. I thought Glen Johnson's performance was better than Clazaghe's.
BigG
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 15 2008, 02:54 AM) [snapback]411086[/snapback]
If it makes you feel better to say that, OK.

I do not like the guy, but I wouldn't call him overrated...especially when you look at how many people talk about what he isn't, as opposed to what he is. And G, you too will need to look up the word "fact".


And it DOES make me feel better saying that. haha.gif
JD
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Nov 15 2008, 12:47 PM) [snapback]411128[/snapback]
And it DOES make me feel better saying that. haha.gif


If it feels good...then do it.
slap
I'm a little confused about this fight because I believe b hop is just 2 smart 4 dawson but on the other hand I think dawson is just 2 skilled and or busy 4 hopkins but this fight should only happen if joe retires but I don't think he would fight dawson and I don't think he's going 2 fight hopkins again and even if he does I think he loses both fights
blackbelt2003
I don't think anyone can be called the 'world light-heavyweight champion' without having fought, at least, Chad Dawson.

In fact, I'm a little worried that people are starting to give so much credence to the Ring belt. That can only be bad for the sport, seeing as it's added to the light-heavyweight mess we currently have.


We have this 'man who beat the man' thing, but that is not an undisputed or world title, that's a LINEAR title. Big difference. Shannon Briggs was once the linear heavyweight champ. He was never the undisputed champ. He was never even a world champ.

Up until the invention of the Ring belt, it seemed to be the unwritten rule that an undisputed champion had to hold the WBC, WBA and IBF belts. All the fighters strived to do it. We had a short period where a lot of divisions got unified...heavyweight, light-heavy, middle, welter and jr welter. We got some great fights.


Now the Ring belt has come along and the unifications seem to have gone up in the air, in favour of these catchweight fights and celebrity matches masquerading as world title bouts. Guys like Joe Calzaghe think that because they hold the Ring belt they don't have to fight the likes of Chad Dawson, and instead can 'defend' against 40 year old Roy Jones Jr. This worries me.


If there was no Ring belt, Hopkins wouldn't have had the luxury of 'defending' against Wright and Calzaghe. He'd have had to go after Chad Dawson and the light-heavyweight division would have been distinctly different.



Right now, there is no World Light-heavyweight Champion.

We have three titlists, and a Ring/Linear champion.


Realistically, that Linear Champ needs to fight the WBC champ to clear up who actually is the best.




Black
BigG
Technically the linear champ is Zsolt Erdei isn't it....but who gives a crap about that fighter

Calzgahe is THE champion...end of story
JD
The sanctioning bodies are their own worst enemy, the randomness with which they compile their rankings makes them generally worthless. Further, the mere fact that you can lose one of the straps without even entering the ring makes it more ridiculous.

"Our #1 contender is Javier Jauregui by virtue of his win over Wes Ferguson; while you already beat him handily, you will need to fight him again to retain your title - should you go through with your fight against Juan Manuel Marquez, you will be stripped"

It's that sort of crap (which was a mythical example that sounds all too accurate) that makes it all so ridiculous.
buford54
The problem with anyone fighting Hopkins is that it almost never settles anything.
Against Dawson, Hopkins would probably lose on inactivity, but it would be similar to his "losses" to Taylor. He was obviously the superior fighter, but he was just too inactive for too long.
Bernard is one of my all time favorites, but his continuing to fight is holding up the division.

You have Joe C, who has a win over Hopkins, but it was pretty controversial, and proved that Hopkins was the better fighter, but couldn't keep up with the pace.
Dawson schooled Tarver, but Hopkins did that too.

I think that Dawson fighting Hopkins would pretty much prove that there are 3 top fighters at LH, all of whom will always give each other a competitive fight.

blackbelt2003
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 17 2008, 01:08 PM) [snapback]411429[/snapback]
The sanctioning bodies are their own worst enemy, the randomness with which they compile their rankings makes them generally worthless. Further, the mere fact that you can lose one of the straps without even entering the ring makes it more ridiculous.

"Our #1 contender is Javier Jauregui by virtue of his win over Wes Ferguson; while you already beat him handily, you will need to fight him again to retain your title - should you go through with your fight against Juan Manuel Marquez, you will be stripped"

It's that sort of crap (which was a mythical example that sounds all too accurate) that makes it all so ridiculous.



I agree that they are their own worst enemies. Some of their rankings are laughable, and their refusal to rank other champions is what is harming boxing tremendously.

But with the mess that is the light-heavyweight division today, I just don't see how Ring magazine's belt is actually adding anything to the situation, apart from yet another guy claiming a title.



Black
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Nov 17 2008, 01:08 PM) [snapback]411428[/snapback]
Technically the linear champ is Zsolt Erdei isn't it....but who gives a crap about that fighter

Calzgahe is THE champion...end of story



I disagree, bro. If you're going on who is the best, it's Dawson. If you're going for who is the man who beat the man, it's Erdei.



Black
JD
When it comes to Light Heavy, I think most people go on beat the man (Hopkins), who beat the man (Tarver), who beat the man (Glen Johnson), who beat the man (Tarver), who beat Roy Jones.

Who knows...
Method
Chad Dawson is not THEE man at Lt Hvy.

He's a hot prospect, with a couple of decent names on his ledger, but, IMO, he just is not complete enough to be considered THEE man. He should at LEAST rematch Glenn Johnson and clean that up before any such talk can continue.
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(Method @ Nov 17 2008, 04:55 PM) [snapback]411440[/snapback]
Chad Dawson is not THEE man at Lt Hvy.

He's a hot prospect, with a couple of decent names on his ledger, but, IMO, he just is not complete enough to be considered THEE man. He should at LEAST rematch Glenn Johnson and clean that up before any such talk can continue.



I hear you, bro, but I feel like the same could be said of ANY light-heavyweights.

Hopkins, a legend he may be, but the only light-heavy he beat was Tarver. And Calzaghe squeaked by him and beat Old Jones Jr, which is lesser than Dawson's record of beating Johnson AND Tarver.



Black
buford54
That's the point. Ultimately, in today's division if you throw Glen Johnson into the mix, you have 4 guys who will almost always be competitive with each other (Dawson, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Johnson).
I'd like to see a tourney, with a Hopkins/Johnson fight, and a Dawson/Calzaghe fight.
Then the winners duke it out. WHile that is probably a Hopkins/Calzaghe rematch, at least we'd get a round of good fights.

I don't think there is a clear cut "the man" at LH though.
Method
I dont think Chad beat Johnson. I guess thats the diff.
PR316
B-Hop would beat him. For a guy that has the type of athleticism Dawson has, he sure gets hit alot. I question his chin too. He's been knocked down and hurt before and he leaves too many openings for Hopkins straight, precise shots. I honestly think his only real clear advantages against Hopkins are speed and youth. Everything else belongs to the old wise man.


I'd rather see Hopkins get a rematch with Calzaghe but we'll just have to wait and see.
streetlion1
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Nov 14 2008, 10:58 AM) [snapback]411014[/snapback]
Dawson would beat any Light Heavy right now!

Except Hopkins!
blackbelt2003
QUOTE(Method @ Nov 17 2008, 05:28 PM) [snapback]411449[/snapback]
I dont think Chad beat Johnson. I guess thats the diff.


I think Dawson put enough rounds in the bag to offset Johnson's work. But it was a close fight. Nobody beats Johnson convincingly, though, not at the moment. Even at age 40, the guy is an animal.


But it all points to the fact that light-heavyweight is an open mess. I just don't see how anyone can proclaim Joe Calzaghe some kind of 'undisputed champ' when there are fighters out there who can dispute it.




Black
D-MARV
QUOTE(streetlion1 @ Nov 19 2008, 01:33 PM) [snapback]411862[/snapback]
Except Hopkins!

I told myself after the Pavlik figh that I would never ever bet agianst Hopkins!
But I still favor Dawson over Hopkins
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