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Full Version: Ricky Hatton or Joe Calzaghe
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D-MARV
This is a topic I've wanted to talk about for a while now...

Ricky Hatton has wins over: Kostya Tszyu, Jose Luis Castillo, Vince Phillips, Ben Tackie/ His one loss was to a "PRIME" Floyd Mayweather.


Joe Calzaghe has wins over: Chris Eubank, Byron Mitchell, Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins, and Roy Jones Jr.

What do yall think?
JD
Calzaghe...without question.
Fitz
Calzaghe. Undisputed 168 champion and now considered the 175 champion.
Fitz
double post
Lil-lightsout
Slapper definately over the mauler. Joe is easily better then Ricky. Seriously, has Hatton beating any really good fighters in there prime? To lazy to check his record right now.

Also, you should post a better picture of Holyfield... like the one when James Toney puts him on the canvas laugh.gif . Just kidding.
STEVENSKI
Zags for sure.

That pick of Oldyfield was taken when he found out about all those backdated child support payments
thehype
Calzaghe
Blayde
Calzaghe. Absolutely no doubt about that ...
BigG
Its Joe without a doubt.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Nov 16 2008, 08:35 PM) [snapback]411366[/snapback]
Slapper definately over the mauler. Joe is easily better then Ricky. Seriously, has Hatton beating any really good fighters in there prime? To lazy to check his record right now.

Also, you should post a better picture of Holyfield... like the one when James Toney puts him on the canvas laugh.gif . Just kidding.



lets be fair the same question can be asked of joe calzaghe... lacy and kessler aside who else has he fought in their primes... eubank wasn't in his prime i can guarentee you that... just saying... fighter for fighter they seem to be on the same page right now in my own humble opinion... cant knock them for what they have done but if you gonna question hattons opponents joes have to be brought up to question as well... lets be real joe has big names on his resume at the END of their careers... i wouldnt blame him if he never fought again but real fight fans know the deal... joe beating jones is like marciano back in the day beating louis... its a good name to have on the record but after that it dont prove much, it probably proves a prime jones beats him.... if cal. is as good as he wants us to believe he is he needs to fight a young stud to prove his worth before he leaves us the fight fans wondering what might have been... 36 is not old for a fighter anymore he can do it... one more fight... a proving ground fight versus chad dawson shuts up any critics mouth for the guy if he can win the fight... you can argue that the money is not in the fight but he knows just like we the fans know who the people are to fight to prove yourself in that ring... not all the time the best fight is the big money fight so at the end of the day that will be a poor excuse when it comes down to proving he is the man... it will be a good excuse for him not to make the one of only a few fights that matter in that division... just my opinion... he owes it to the fans... if he continues who's next?.. antonio tarver?...lol... he owes it to the fans to go out cementing his place in history versus one of MAYBE his only 2 or 3 threats (dawson, johnson, hopkiins).... dawson is young and for sure in his prime an on top of his game right now.. its the fight to be made. when you look at it hatton has bigger balls cuzz he at least fought floydd who was considered the best pound for pound.... NOBODY CALZAGHE FOUGHT WAS CONSIDERED THE BEST IN THE WORLD WHEN THEY FOUGHT HIM... his biggest wins were over former #1's past their primes....
D-MARV
Right now I give the edge to Calzaghe! not because quality of opponents but because he has held the title for so long and had 20 defenses...

Next year or so can get interesting though. If Hatton gets by Malignaggi, then he will more than likley target the Pacman-De La hoya winner. If Calzaghe does ideed retire and Hatton has 2 or 3 more big fights, then Hatton's legacy can surpass that of Calzaghe's.
blackbelt2003
Calzaghe is obviously the better fighter.


But based strictly on achievements it's a little closer. Calzaghe has had only three recognised world title fights (Lacy, Bika and Kessler) compared to Hatton's five (Tszyu, Maussa, Urango, Collazo and Mayweather), but if you factor in fights that were world title fights in all but name, ie big 12 rounders against the best in the respective division, then you also get for Calzaghe: Hopkins, Jones Jr and possibly one or two of his earlier fights, say Eubank and perhaps Mitchell.
For Hatton you can add just Castillo.

So it looks, achievement-wise as though Calzaghe edges him, but it's close.


But of course p4p I would always pick Calzaghe to beat Hatton.




Black
GMAN73
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Nov 17 2008, 03:52 AM) [snapback]411415[/snapback]
lets be fair the same question can be asked of joe calzaghe... lacy and kessler aside who else has he fought in their primes... eubank wasn't in his prime i can guarentee you that... just saying... fighter for fighter they seem to be on the same page right now in my own humble opinion... cant knock them for what they have done but if you gonna question hattons opponents joes have to be brought up to question as well... lets be real joe has big names on his resume at the END of their careers... i wouldnt blame him if he never fought again but real fight fans know the deal... joe beating jones is like marciano back in the day beating louis... its a good name to have on the record but after that it dont prove much, it probably proves a prime jones beats him.... if cal. is as good as he wants us to believe he is he needs to fight a young stud to prove his worth before he leaves us the fight fans wondering what might have been... 36 is not old for a fighter anymore he can do it... one more fight... a proving ground fight versus chad dawson shuts up any critics mouth for the guy if he can win the fight... you can argue that the money is not in the fight but he knows just like we the fans know who the people are to fight to prove yourself in that ring... not all the time the best fight is the big money fight so at the end of the day that will be a poor excuse when it comes down to proving he is the man... it will be a good excuse for him not to make the one of only a few fights that matter in that division... just my opinion... he owes it to the fans... if he continues who's next?.. antonio tarver?...lol... he owes it to the fans to go out cementing his place in history versus one of MAYBE his only 2 or 3 threats (dawson, johnson, hopkiins).... dawson is young and for sure in his prime an on top of his game right now.. its the fight to be made. when you look at it hatton has bigger balls cuzz he at least fought floydd who was considered the best pound for pound.... NOBODY CALZAGHE FOUGHT WAS CONSIDERED THE BEST IN THE WORLD WHEN THEY FOUGHT HIM... his biggest wins were over former #1's past their primes....


The only beef I have with your post is: RJJ and Bernard Hopkins really didn't want anything to do with Calzaghe until after he became a household name. He(Cal) lobbied for a fight with both guys from 2001-2005 and had no luck. RJJ and Hopkins were both doing the same thing JC is doing right now, chasing the almighty dollar, with fights vs. Ruiz, Tarver DLH and Taylor. All bigger names and less dangerous than the unknown(at the time)Calzaghe. Now the shoe is on the other foot, Calzaghe has star quality and is the drawing card. I am not saying it is right, but it is what it is. Even though it sounds retarded Calzaghe-Tarver is a much bigger fight than Calzaghe-Dawson right now. I am talking mainstream, because in the big picture of things Cal-Chad is huge to the hardcore fan, but to the casual fan Tarver is a much bigger name and the fight would be much bigger in terms of $ right now.
JonnyBlaze
Calzaghe
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(GMAN73 @ Nov 17 2008, 11:08 AM) [snapback]411444[/snapback]
The only beef I have with your post is: RJJ and Bernard Hopkins really didn't want anything to do with Calzaghe until after he became a household name. He(Cal) lobbied for a fight with both guys from 2001-2005 and had no luck. RJJ and Hopkins were both doing the same thing JC is doing right now, chasing the almighty dollar, with fights vs. Ruiz, Tarver DLH and Taylor. All bigger names and less dangerous than the unknown(at the time)Calzaghe. Now the shoe is on the other foot, Calzaghe has star quality and is the drawing card. I am not saying it is right, but it is what it is. Even though it sounds retarded Calzaghe-Tarver is a much bigger fight than Calzaghe-Dawson right now. I am talking mainstream, because in the big picture of things Cal-Chad is huge to the hardcore fan, but to the casual fan Tarver is a much bigger name and the fight would be much bigger in terms of $ right now.


my point was that at this point in joes career lets say he fights tarver.... another aged former has been that only claim to fame was he fought and also beat a past prime jones and never won any other big fight guy... it proves nothing for his legacy.. joe calzaghe has yet to prove he can beat a bonafide full fledge fighter at the level he appears to be at right now... if he wants the money he can fight tarver though i will say after the dawson loss i doubt that fight will sale.... he barely did 250,000 ppv fighting jones... if he truely wants the glory he will fight chad dawson... he needs a proving ground fight.... and dont get me wrong i am not triing to take away from his accomplishments but it is what it is... it would be nice to see him fight a guy that is in his prime and a guy that has the youth to deal with the volume of punches he is gonna bring all 12 rounds... the guy is dawson at this point.. he beats dawson and he gets my respect and i am sure most others as well like him or hate him..
rusty_trombone
hey, the same hopkins Joe C. just beat, is the same guy who abused a young, up and comer middleweight champion in his next fight. so I think Joe's win over Hopkins is actually a legit W. I have a feeling Joe would have given him problems, however old Hopkins was when the fought.

I think all-time Joe is clearly head and shoulders above Hatton.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Nov 17 2008, 03:24 PM) [snapback]411478[/snapback]
. joe calzaghe has yet to prove he can beat a bonafide full fledge fighter at the level he appears to be at right now...

I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say Hopkins was definitely legit when they fought, considering his performance against pavlik in his next fight. The B-Hop win over Pavlik, certainly lends a level of credibility to Joe's win over him.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Nov 17 2008, 08:03 PM) [snapback]411531[/snapback]
I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say Hopkins was definitely legit when they fought, considering his performance against pavlik in his next fight. The B-Hop win over Pavlik, certainly lends a level of credibility to Joe's win over him.

Rusty sign me up on the Margarito fan hate wagon..
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Nov 17 2008, 07:41 PM) [snapback]411539[/snapback]
Rusty sign me up on the Margarito fan hate wagon..

nice.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Nov 17 2008, 06:03 PM) [snapback]411531[/snapback]
I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say Hopkins was definitely legit when they fought, considering his performance against pavlik in his next fight. The B-Hop win over Pavlik, certainly lends a level of credibility to Joe's win over him.


i agree with the hopkins assessment... hopkins is still quality even in his 40's... but it can still be argued that joe has yet to beat a top flight young fighter in his prime that is on that same level... dawson has emerged to be that fighter... and i am not saying dawson def. beats joe or vice versa but i am saying it is the true litmus test joe needs before he ends his career if he is anywhere interested in his place in boxing history.... he's got the names on his resume but it is nothing more than that... b-hop aside cuzz like i said i agree with you on that one but gosh the guy is still what 43?... even if he loses the fight he passes the guard and we are not left wondering what MIGHT have happened... the fight can be made if joe wants it.
D-MARV
If Jermain Taylor was to fight Kessler and beat him... Would he be ranked top 5 p4p?

His resume we look like Calzaghe's except he fought and beat BHop twice!
D-MARV
QUOTE(Fitz @ Nov 18 2008, 05:28 PM) [snapback]411722[/snapback]
Taylor got knocked out by Pavlik, lost a decision to Pavlik second time around and has 4 controversial decisions that went his way and Ouma gave him all he could handle. But other than that, they are the same.

Your missing my point!

My point is that Calzaghe biggest win were against Hopkins, Kessler and Lacy... If Taylor was to go on and defeat Kessler would this hve any effect on Calzaghe's legacy!
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Nov 18 2008, 05:00 AM) [snapback]411619[/snapback]
i agree with the hopkins assessment... hopkins is still quality even in his 40's... but it can still be argued that joe has yet to beat a top flight young fighter in his prime that is on that same level... dawson has emerged to be that fighter... and i am not saying dawson def. beats joe or vice versa but i am saying it is the true litmus test joe needs before he ends his career if he is anywhere interested in his place in boxing history.... he's got the names on his resume but it is nothing more than that... b-hop aside cuzz like i said i agree with you on that one but gosh the guy is still what 43?... even if he loses the fight he passes the guard and we are not left wondering what MIGHT have happened... the fight can be made if joe wants it.

yeah, i guess dawson might be a test for his gay welsh ass. Dawson might be a bit too green though, even if zags is a polesmoker
Maxy
Neither Hatton or Calzaghe are popular on these boards but the truth is Ricky Hatton at least dared to be great...he took on the P4P no.1 when Mayweather was at his peak.

Yeah he got beat down but he took the fight in his opponents country and got outclassed, but at least he took the fight when it mattered.

Joe waited too long for his biggest fights to have any real meaning.

P4P Joe probably beats Hatton but he's done everything far too late to get any respect for his achievements.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Maxy @ Nov 20 2008, 01:14 PM) [snapback]412075[/snapback]
Neither Hatton or Calzaghe are popular on these boards but the truth is Ricky Hatton at least dared to be great...he took on the P4P no.1 when Mayweather was at his peak.

Yeah he got beat down but he took the fight in his opponents country and got outclassed, but at least he took the fight when it mattered.

Joe waited too long for his biggest fights to have any real meaning.

P4P Joe probably beats Hatton but he's done everything far too late to get any respect for his achievements.

Well Said
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