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Nay_Sayer
Read somewhere that ODLH is currently weighing 145lbs. Does anyone here think that the 147lb limit is going to be a problem for him?
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Nov 18 2008, 05:31 PM) [snapback]411725[/snapback]
Read somewhere that ODLH is currently weighing 145lbs. Does anyone here think that the 147lb limit is going to be a problem for him?

He won't have a problem... I saw some training pics and he looks a slim as I have see him in years!


This is a major advantage to Manny Pac!
If Oscar is draining himself then Manny Pac is going to annihilate him!
Big Slim Sweet
If Oscar says he's weighing 145 then you can take it to the bank. That man's as straight a shooter as they come.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Nov 18 2008, 04:46 PM) [snapback]411735[/snapback]
If Oscar says he's weighing 145 then you can take it to the bank. That man's as straight a shooter as they come.

You're kidding, right?
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Nov 18 2008, 06:50 PM) [snapback]411737[/snapback]
You're kidding, right?

Yes.
STEVENSKI
I hope DLH collapses with dehydration in the third round.
D-MARV
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Nov 18 2008, 06:01 PM) [snapback]411742[/snapback]
I hope DLH collapses with dehydration in the third round.

That would be a sight!
JD
I think he is going to look a little flat at 147.
D-MARV
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 18 2008, 06:10 PM) [snapback]411749[/snapback]
I think he is going to look a little flat at 147.

I agree, which is why Im going with Manny Pac.

What are the odds right now?
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Fitz @ Nov 18 2008, 05:13 PM) [snapback]411750[/snapback]
I hate this fight, it's a garbage fight. I like DLH, and don't hate Pacquiao as much anymore but still want to see him get knocked out though. So for me, the best thing to happen in this fight is for DLH to catch Pacquiao cold in the first round, so Pacquiao is twitching and then the idiots finally realise how bad of a mismatch this was from the start, they start booing and throwing shit in the ring.
That way, I see Pacquiaio get knocked out, he won't lose face though, and the people see this fight for what it really is.

Ok, so what do you think is really going to happen?
rusty_trombone
145? man, millie must be sucking him dry
BrutalBodyShots
I've got DLH stopping Pacquiao in about 6 rounds... similar to the Mayorga fight where DLH just proves to have too much fire power and hand speed as well. People talk a lot about Pacquiao's speed (which certainly IS superior to DLH's) but that isn't the big issue here... the issue is that Pacquiao hasn't IMO really seen speed like DLH can show... even though it's not sustained. DLH has dealt with lightning fast speed before... Mosley, Mayweather, etc.

I just picture Marquez rocking Pacquiao at 130 pounds 8 months ago and don't see how he can stand up to DLH's firepower (which at 147 is very respectable and P4P is on par with Marquez) 3 divisions above that.

I fully expect Pacquiao to come out guns a blazin' as always, certainly catching DLH with some quick shots like straight lefts. Shit maybe he even puts DLH on his ass for the first time in forever in the first or second round... but DLH has a great chin and will completely turn the fight around I believe and be landing the harder shots by rounds 3-4. I think Pacquiao will give a good account of himself with determination for another round or 2, but will get hurt by DLH's heavier shots and in about round 6 the ref will have seen enough with a hurt Pacquiao not going down (maybe like DLH stopping Vargas on the ropes).

Douchebag
this fight makes me sad sad.gif
JD
I'm interested.

At first, I was like Brutal...DLH by KO inside of 6.

But I really do not like Oscar at 147...he hasn't been there since '01, and the closest he was was against Forbes earlier this year - he looked average to me.

I am on the fence here.
BrutalBodyShots
I'd too be on the fence if Pacquiao weren't 5'6" and jumping from his 8th to his 10th weight class. He's good and all, but it's asking a lot for a guy that started at 106 or 108 to be nearly as effective at 147. Had he also shown to be iron jawed in the lower divisions it would be tougher to pick against him, but I still see him getting lit up by Marquez at 130 and it makes my DLH pick much more comfortable. Shit if DLH were anywhere near his prime he'd be able to win this fight with his jab alone due to the size advantage he has over Pacquiao, but that weapon isn't what it used to be for him.

Another factor not really discussed yet is how Pacquiao will do stamina/speed wise with the additional weight. Conventional wisdom would suggest he'll be a hair diminished if anything hopping up 12 pounds. Also you can only carry your power up so far. I've never thought of Pacquiao to have P4P punching power in the first place... even in the lower divisions his speed was his power.

JD
If this were the younger, welter version of Oscar - I pick him without a second thought, and would not expect it to go past 6...like I was originally thinking here.

But this is the 35 year old-hasn't fought at 147 since '01-more hittable because he is more flat-footed-less stamina version.

I almost think the fact that Pac is 5'6" will help him, because Oscar will have a tougher time getting to his body. Oscar was so flat at 150 against Forbes, I really am concerned we will get more of the same, which would net us an entertaining fight.

I dunno...I am still not making a pick here.
BrutalBodyShots
Also one more thing, back to the punching power thing... Think about Mayorga for a second. The guy always showed to have a pretty darn good chin, taking bombs from good-very good punchers in Mosley, Trinidad, Forrest, Vargas etc. I'm not sure that DLH hits harder than any of those guys, but he was able to stop Mayorga faster than the others simply by using his speed and combinations. I find it hard to envision Pacquiao being able to stand up to even half the stuff that Mayorga was hit with... and like I said I wouldn't expect him to; you can only expect so much from a little guy moving up as far as he has.

Mean Mister Mustard
DLH will find it hard to catch Pacquiao cleanly. Pac Man's defense has greatly improved and even though he can still get caught more often than he should, his legs and upper body movement get him out of trouble really fast. DLH will have to work the body if he wishes to chop down the little guy.

I also agree that this is a crap fight and would have been much happier to see Margarito-DLH.
JD
The Mayorga fight was better then 2 and a half years ago...and, more importantly, was at 154 - not 147.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 18 2008, 09:09 PM) [snapback]411779[/snapback]
I almost think the fact that Pac is 5'6" will help him, because Oscar will have a tougher time getting to his body. Oscar was so flat at 150 against Forbes, I really am concerned we will get more of the same, which would net us an entertaining fight.


I think the only body Oscar should be concerned with is his own. He has shown to be much more vulnerable there (Mosley II, Hopkins, etc) than upstairs, and a few clean shots upstairs on Pacquiao would be more than enough to do the trick. This is one of the few times that I actually think a body attack isn't really necessary.

JD
I think head-hunting would be a bad idea here.

Though I do agree...some clean shots from Oscar would undeniably put Pac in a bad spot.

It is hard for me to vehemently argue one way or the next because I honestly am not sold on a pick either way right now.
BrutalBodyShots
A further from prime version of Mayorga went 71:59 with Vargas and Mosley after being stopped by DLH in about 16 minutes.

D-MARV
When the fight was first announced... I went with Oscar within 6! But after seeing Pacquiao in training @152, he appears to have the same hand speed and now he carries a little more pop! Oscar is making the mistake of losing the weight. Oscar would have been better served to weigh in around 156-158 on fight night! If he does indeed weigh 145 now then he will be flat (as JD mentioned) and his stamina would not hold! Manny Pac will take him into the later rounds and punish him. Interesting fight either way.
JD
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2008, 09:16 PM) [snapback]411785[/snapback]
A further from prime version of Mayorga went 71:59 with Vargas and Mosley after being stopped by DLH in about 16 minutes.


Ok...but...

The version that fought Oscar got busted for illegal substances (Lasix apparently) to suck weight because he was too heavy leading up to the fight...and even contemplated not fighting the day before the fight because he was not making enough money. Plus, as I said, it was 2 and a half years ago and at junior middle, not welterweight.

Oscar looked good against Mayorga...I agree with you there. That Oscar will not show up here on fight night...does it mean he will not KO Pac? No, it doesn't - it just means the fight is not at junior middle, and it is not the version of Oscar from two and a half years ago. I expect something closer to the guy we saw 6 months ago, fighting at a catch-weight of 150, against former junior lightweight Steve Forbes - when he was hittable, flat, got tired, and went the distance.
D-MARV
QUOTE(caneman @ Nov 18 2008, 06:22 PM) [snapback]411755[/snapback]

Thanks Bro!


By The way, I hate your F*cking Sig! aggressive.gif
D-MARV
Manny Pac for a 12 round stoppage is 80-1... 11 round stoppage 60-1!
JD
If there is a stoppage, I tend to think Oscar would be the one scoring it.
D-MARV
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 18 2008, 09:37 PM) [snapback]411793[/snapback]
If there is a stoppage, I tend to think Oscar would be the one scoring it.

Oh I agree!

But 80-1 are some good odds!
JD
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Nov 18 2008, 09:40 PM) [snapback]411794[/snapback]
Oh I agree!

But 80-1 are some good odds!


Sure are...and for good reason.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE(Fitz @ Nov 18 2008, 07:13 PM) [snapback]411750[/snapback]
I hate this fight, it's a garbage fight. I like DLH, and don't hate Pacquiao as much anymore but still want to see him get knocked out though. So for me, the best thing to happen in this fight is for DLH to catch Pacquiao cold in the first round, so Pacquiao is twitching and then the idiots finally realise how bad of a mismatch this was from the start, they start booing and throwing shit in the ring.
That way, I see Pacquiaio get knocked out, he won't lose face though, and the people see this fight for what it really is.


I couldnt agree more.....I dont see Pacman doing nothing but making DLH mad in this fight.....

QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Nov 18 2008, 10:12 PM) [snapback]411781[/snapback]
DLH will find it hard to catch Pacquiao cleanly. Pac Man's defense has greatly improved and even though he can still get caught more often than he should, his legs and upper body movement get him out of trouble really fast. DLH will have to work the body if he wishes to chop down the little guy.

I also agree that this is a crap fight and would have been much happier to see Margarito-DLH.


This is, however, a fuckin circus fight.....If DLH really wanted to be #1 on my P4P list, he should have taken the fight with Margarito.....DLH may be the only that has what it takes to beat him....

I think Marg is stalling on signing with Mosely to see whats happens Dec.6
D-MARV
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Nov 18 2008, 09:45 PM) [snapback]411797[/snapback]
DLH may be the only that has what it takes to beat him....

How about Santos and Williams???? rolleyes_anim.gif
JD
Margarito's management should forget waiting for December 6th, and pay more attention to what happens November 22nd, because if Hatton wins - I tend to think that he has the inside track on the winner of DLH - Pac.
D-MARV
QUOTE(JD @ Nov 18 2008, 09:51 PM) [snapback]411800[/snapback]
Margarito's management should forget waiting for December 6th, and pay more attention to what happens November 22nd, because if Hatton wins - I tend to think that he has the inside track on the winner of DLH - Pac.

True That!

But if Pac pulls off the Upset... I expect to see Mayweather emerge
JD
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Nov 18 2008, 09:54 PM) [snapback]411801[/snapback]
True That!

But if Pac pulls off the Upset... I expect to see Mayweather emerge


He absolutely will.
BrutalBodyShots
What do you guys think about Oscar saying that after this fight he might drop down to 140? LOL


JD
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2008, 10:19 PM) [snapback]411804[/snapback]
What do you guys think about Oscar saying that after this fight he might drop down to 140? LOL


LOL...you know my answer.

Looks to me like a way to try and sell the Hatton fight.
Lil-lightsout
I think Oscar being this light is a good thing, shows he is actually training hard. I also think it would be better to be at fighting weight longer to get used to it, then to have to keep losing more and more weight as training progresses. Plus mentally he can focus on the training itself, and not worry about the weight issue.

As far as the Forbes fight, that was an ugly fight due to Steve's style. I think we will see a much sharper Oscar this time. Oscar has faced bigger and better competition, and no one has even seen Manny at this weight yet. That is a huge edge to Oscar. I just think Roach and Manny bit off a little more than they can chew, Oscar's power will eventually catch Manny and stop him. Pac can not outbox him all night, and I definately see him trading with Oscar, and at some point we will all see what type of chin Pacman has got. I will go with Oscar mid rounds KO.

Just a side note about Roach that I do not care for him as much as I used to.
1-He questioned Hopkins decision about fighting Pavlik, due to his showing against Joe C, which Roach trained him. He said he worried for Bernards safety. Well Hopkins looked way better against Pavlik without Roach.
2-He trained Israel Vasquez for his first fight with Rafael Marquez, and Marquez dismantled him and beat him good. Then Roach does not work with Vasquez for the rematch, think he said he was looking out for Israel's safety, and Vasquez gets a new trainer and looks way better in the rematch and stops Marquez in an awesome fight.
3-Now Roach gets dumped by Oscar after the Mayweather fight, and really pursues Pac going after Oscar now, which Pac did not sign right away. But Roach really wanted this fight, and eventually it gets signed. I personally think Roach is more interested in getting back at Oscar, then looking at Manny's best interest. Because to me, this is a dangerous fight for Manny, and Roach should catch alot of shit if Pac gets Ko'd. But I guess if Pac pulls off the upset, he will act as if he knew it all along.
Nay_Sayer
When was the last time Oscar fought a Southpaw?
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(BoxingStill#1 @ Nov 19 2008, 02:45 AM) [snapback]411797[/snapback]
I couldnt agree more.....I dont see Pacman doing nothing but making DLH mad in this fight.....


You mean the emotional kind of mad like when he was "KO'd" by Hopkins or the rage filled anger like he showed when he fought Vargas? The guy is a straight fraud who does not know how to get mad unless Millie puts a ladder in his pantyhose or wears his heels outside the house.


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Nov 19 2008, 02:54 AM) [snapback]411801[/snapback]
True That!

But if Pac pulls off the Upset... I expect to see Mayweather emerge


PBF is a straight fraud & that is the exact bitcmade move money would pull. I still wish Big Show had ruptured his spleen in front of his kids.
The CEO
DLH will carry Pacquiao like Mayweather did DLH....because all of them will be doing future business together....this fight stinks.
BrutalBodyShots
Anyone think that part of the reason that DLH didn't look spectacular in the Forbes fight was that he was training for Stevie fuckin Forbes? Without question DLH will prepare himself better when facing a P4P top 3 fighter than a contender loser.
mexi-cutioner
I don't know if Oscar going down to wait will hurt him significantly, since he did lose that weight in the last few weeks and has given himself time to adjust to the weight, unlike some fighters who are forced to shed 10 pounds the week of a fight which is both unhealthy and draining. One thing that may escape from DLH from the weightloss is the power and possibly endurance since he is probably taking in less(therefore less nutrients/energy for his body to use) in order to maintain weight.
After watching Manny workout during the media day i was impressed to see how he was at that weight. He is more jacked than ever, his legs looks HUGE!!!!!!!!! and he has mantained a high speed(if he has lost some speed it isn't significant loss) and has definitely added more pop to his punch. He looks extremely healthy whereas DLH looks pale and almost anorexic.

BTW, has anyone noticed the shiner under DLH eye????? Rumours are spreading that VIctor Ortiz kicked his A## in sparring which Golden Boy promotions claimed was false, however, Ortiz was recently kicked off of Delahoya's sparring team, anyone else find this suspicious??
torvix2000
If Ortiz really kicked DLH's ass... then they wouldn't fire him. No, he did not kick DLH's ass.

Pacquiao has always shown weaknesses. He was dropped by a jab... he was hurt by Larios... etc. etc. Then all of a sudden he can take on the hardest punches of Marquez, Barrera, and Morales... FLUSH SHOTS!

Perhaps, when he moves up in weight his punch resistance gets higher. And he's moving up in weight again. If my suspicion is correct then DLH could be in trouble because of his low stamina. He better knock Pacquiao out early.
MarzB
I don't buy one bit that a man that walks around at 170-175 is now walking at 145 when he hasn't weighed IN (keyword) at that weight in damn near 10 years.

As Fitz says, "Dela Hoya is STRAIGHT SHOOTER as they come" laugh.gif so we should take him at his word

("Full investigation", "I'm in the best shape of my care/I fought Floyd with a torn rotator cuff", "I'm fighting Hopkins for those belts"(the $35 million had NOTHING to do with it we're supposed to believe)

If he's even 150 now as someone mentioned he'll be dehydrated by the time the fight happens and all Pac has to do is take him later in the fight where we know Oscar's "great stamina" will kick in.

I hate this matchup but I'd love nothing more to see Pac get a win.

If the shiner Dela Hoya has on his eye during the first 24/7 is any indication to how training is going, I'm loving Pac's chances even more.

Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Nov 18 2008, 07:54 PM) [snapback]411766[/snapback]
I've got DLH stopping Pacquiao in about 6 rounds... similar to the Mayorga fight where DLH just proves to have too much fire power and hand speed as well. People talk a lot about Pacquiao's speed (which certainly IS superior to DLH's) but that isn't the big issue here... the issue is that Pacquiao hasn't IMO really seen speed like DLH can show... even though it's not sustained. DLH has dealt with lightning fast speed before... Mosley, Mayweather, etc.

I just picture Marquez rocking Pacquiao at 130 pounds 8 months ago and don't see how he can stand up to DLH's firepower (which at 147 is very respectable and P4P is on par with Marquez) 3 divisions above that.

I fully expect Pacquiao to come out guns a blazin' as always, certainly catching DLH with some quick shots like straight lefts. Shit maybe he even puts DLH on his ass for the first time in forever in the first or second round... but DLH has a great chin and will completely turn the fight around I believe and be landing the harder shots by rounds 3-4. I think Pacquiao will give a good account of himself with determination for another round or 2, but will get hurt by DLH's heavier shots and in about round 6 the ref will have seen enough with a hurt Pacquiao not going down (maybe like DLH stopping Vargas on the ropes).

Nice assessment of the fight IMO. I agree - Pacquiao's speed will give DLH some problems early but it's not like he hasn't dealt with that before. Meanwhile there is just no way I see Pacquiao being able to absorb the shots that DLH is going to start landing at some point.

I picture Marquez rocking him too. I also picture Manny's first fight with Morales, and I think it was the first round when Eric was really trying to make a statement. Pacman caught him a couple shots that backed him up and then tried following him to the ropes and from there Morales came back hard and just started laying into him, bullying Manny completely across the ring throwing big time shots at him the whole way. At some point Oscar is going to realize he can do that too, and when he does there won't be much Manny can do about it.

I expect Pac to give a good account of himself for a while as well. He'll show toughness and stand up to some blows he's never stood up to before, but midway through the fight I just picture a worn down Manny getting winded from the beating he's taking and getting wild in there and Oscar putting him down for good with a coutner left hook. I'll say round 7. And believe me, I would love to be wrong here.

QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Nov 18 2008, 11:58 PM) [snapback]411807[/snapback]
Just a side note about Roach that I do not care for him as much as I used to.
1-He questioned Hopkins decision about fighting Pavlik, due to his showing against Joe C, which Roach trained him. He said he worried for Bernards safety. Well Hopkins looked way better against Pavlik without Roach.
2-He trained Israel Vasquez for his first fight with Rafael Marquez, and Marquez dismantled him and beat him good. Then Roach does not work with Vasquez for the rematch, think he said he was looking out for Israel's safety, and Vasquez gets a new trainer and looks way better in the rematch and stops Marquez in an awesome fight.
3-Now Roach gets dumped by Oscar after the Mayweather fight, and really pursues Pac going after Oscar now, which Pac did not sign right away. But Roach really wanted this fight, and eventually it gets signed. I personally think Roach is more interested in getting back at Oscar, then looking at Manny's best interest. Because to me, this is a dangerous fight for Manny, and Roach should catch alot of shit if Pac gets Ko'd. But I guess if Pac pulls off the upset, he will act as if he knew it all along.

Good points about Roach and I agree here as well. Not long ago I thought this man really knew his shit but that seems less and less to be the case now. If Manny gets overwhelmed the way most of us expect him to it should fall squarely on Roach.

QUOTE(MarzB @ Nov 19 2008, 12:06 PM) [snapback]411844[/snapback]
As Fitz says, "Dela Hoya is STRAIGHT SHOOTER as they come" laugh.gif so we should take him at his word

Uh, that was me that said it. laugh.gif I want the credit!

Oh, I noticed the shiner too.
mexi-cutioner
QUOTE(torvix2000 @ Nov 19 2008, 05:53 AM) [snapback]411835[/snapback]
If Ortiz really kicked DLH's ass... then they wouldn't fire him. No, he did not kick DLH's ass.

Pacquiao has always shown weaknesses. He was dropped by a jab... he was hurt by Larios... etc. etc. Then all of a sudden he can take on the hardest punches of Marquez, Barrera, and Morales... FLUSH SHOTS!

Perhaps, when he moves up in weight his punch resistance gets higher. And he's moving up in weight again. If my suspicion is correct then DLH could be in trouble because of his low stamina. He better knock Pacquiao out early.


I dont recall Pacquiao being dropped by a jab?? I don't recall him being dropped in a while, and if you're talking about his first fight vs Barrera when he was called for KD in the first round, it was clear in the replay he tripped over Barrera's lead foot and was never caught by a Barrera clean punch on that bad call. The way Pac fights, I think it's impressive how he hasn't been KD or beeen really badly hurt that often. He sticks his head in and if you watch him, hes almost always getting hit by clean shots yet it rarely affects him. Moving up 12 pounds against a pretty strong hitter we will be able to see how his chin fairs out against a much bigger man, yet it is clear that against fighters 135 and lower, he has a pretty good chin to me. The only KOs he had in his career were body shots in which he had to drain himself to make weight.
streetlion1
Oscar looks like he is in good shape and in the training videos I've seen still looks very quick. I was thinking Oscar would knock him out in 4 rounds but I'll give Manny some credit and say his speed and style will give Oscar some trouble. Manny is in the fight the whole way until he gets K.O.ed around 7 or 8
kidbazooka1
Like DLH said if he did it the right way it shouldn't effect him if not he might just be in trouble.
MarzB
My bad Big Slim, respect due agree.gif agree.gif

I gotta comment more about this. When does it get to the point of being "TOO MUCH"??

I could understand a nutritionist for the sake of getting down in weight but got damn. First you got Nacho, then you bring in Angelo Dundee and then your brother has some muscle machine. What next, a neurologist that'll measure Oscar's brain waves and they'll dictate the fight plan based on the results?? All this for PACQUIAO!!!!

I just find it amazing not to say modern boxers can't take up the advantages of modern technology but amazing that with all these tools, PLENTY of boxers have developed better skills than Dela Hoya and surely if they were going in with the advantages he had, would they need all this CRAP? Yes I said it. CRAP

In the end it'll come down to punches, who hits who the most. Real difficult. NONE of this means a damn thing if he reverts back to his old style once he's hit or hurt.

For the record I think unless Dela folds his chair this fight is his to lose. But the way he's acting he's giving me doubts,lol.

Hopkins for example brings in a lot of people but I can see why. John David Jackson can hold left handed mitts like no other trainer can plus he's still athletic enough to spar with you. Bro Naz has his thing and Mackie has his.

If Dundee's an advisor, what the hell is Nacho??
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