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Box in Hand
Here I am respecting Shane Mosely and believing he didn't take performance enhancing drugs and today I read an article that he has admitted to taking them. Now, for that he should have to take an extra loss on his record and pay back his purse for that fight. Boxing in my mind is the best sport ever because it is Mano y Mano. It's about putting yourself through rigorous training and coming up with a good game plan. Fuck that cheating shit. Shane, you lost my respect and so does any other dope fiend boxers.

So I ask, what should be the penalty for fighter who use performance enhancing drugs?
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Dec 3 2008, 02:47 PM) [snapback]413922[/snapback]
Here I am respecting Shane Mosely and believing he didn't take performance enhancing drugs and today I read an article that he has admitted to taking them. Now, for that he should have to take an extra loss on his record and pay back his purse for that fight. Boxing in my mind is the best sport ever because it is Mano y Mano. It's about putting yourself through rigorous training and coming up with a good game plan. Fuck that cheating shit. Shane, you lost my respect and so does any other dope fiend boxers.

So I ask, what should be the penalty for fighter who use performance enhancing drugs?


That's a good question. Is his whole legacy tarnished or just pieces? I'm guessing it will not affect his legacy because people tend to have short span memories and just basically don't give a fuck. Look at Toney, his legacy is not tarnished, although the circumstances aren't identical. One fight for sure he was on juice or whatever was the second DLH fight. Yuo could see his body looked more ripped than usual. you really have to wonder how many boxers are on some illegal substance. For some reason or another boxing fans and experts think doping in boxing is rare and only a flaw of other sports but you look at some guys and you have to wonder if it is possible at all to do wha tthey do without extra help. In the spirit of this new confirmation I would just like to add a list of boxers who I think are on something.

Miguel Cotto- The way his body changed from lightweight to muscular Jr Welter is just sketchy. I also remember hearing Collazo's trainer claiming Cotto juiced.

Arthur Abraham- His back muscles don't look normal, same with Cotto.

Roy Jones was. Ruiz fight should be the eye opener.

Manny Pacquiao- I don't care how talented he is, the weight class jumping is just too suspicious.

D-MARV
I thought this was old news...

I agree with MMM on the sketchiness, I'm willing to bet that many current champions have juiced.
Big Slim Sweet
Count me as somebody who basically just doesn't give a fuck. I prefer guys didn't but my guess is 9/10 do it or have done it. If it bothers you so much I don't see how you can even be a sports fan anymore.

Anyway this is old news with Mosley. It kinda sucks for him that a different version of the exact same story keeps popping up on the ESPN ticker every few months reminding everyone about it, but that's the risk he took for getting involved.

Ironically I thought Mosley looked subpar during that era he was juicing (the Marquez fight likely too I think). He's looked better again since he took off some of that extra muscle. Who knows, maybe he used something to do that as well?

MMM I agree with you about the guys you mentioned. It's everywhere.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Dec 3 2008, 02:03 PM) [snapback]413927[/snapback]
That's a good question. Is his whole legacy tarnished or just pieces? I'm guessing it will not affect his legacy because people tend to have short span memories and just basically don't give a fuck. Look at Toney, his legacy is not tarnished, although the circumstances aren't identical. One fight for sure he was on juice or whatever was the second DLH fight. Yuo could see his body looked more ripped than usual. you really have to wonder how many boxers are on some illegal substance. For some reason or another boxing fans and experts think doping in boxing is rare and only a flaw of other sports but you look at some guys and you have to wonder if it is possible at all to do wha tthey do without extra help. In the spirit of this new confirmation I would just like to add a list of boxers who I think are on something.

Miguel Cotto- The way his body changed from lightweight to muscular Jr Welter is just sketchy. I also remember hearing Collazo's trainer claiming Cotto juiced.

Arthur Abraham- His back muscles don't look normal, same with Cotto.

Roy Jones was. Ruiz fight should be the eye opener.

Manny Pacquiao- I don't care how talented he is, the weight class jumping is just too suspicious.


Very good observation. Now that you mention it, Roy is kind of suspect and I'll need to see how Pac does against Oscar because there is no way Pac should win that fight unless he's on something.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Dec 3 2008, 02:33 PM) [snapback]413936[/snapback]
Count me as somebody who basically just doesn't give a fuck. I prefer guys didn't but my guess is 9/10 do it or have done it. If it bothers you so much I don't see how you can even be a sports fan anymore.

Anyway this is old news with Mosley. It kinda sucks for him that a different version of the exact same story keeps popping up on the ESPN ticker every few months reminding everyone about it, but that's the risk he took for getting involved.

Ironically I thought Mosley looked subpar during that era he was juicing (the Marquez fight likely too I think). He's looked better again since he took off some of that extra muscle. Who knows, maybe he used something to do that as well?

MMM I agree with you about the guys you mentioned. It's everywhere.



I do care because I am a fighter and an old school personality at that. No one can get me to not give a fuck. Boxing is my sweet science and there is nothing better than watching people like Bernard Hopkins (Never Juiced, just discipline) technically take apart high level fighters. Or watching old tapes of Sweet Pee as he boxed circles around people. Or Floyd, pot shot people to death. I'm standing my ground and saying that athletes these days are losing the essence of what it's about. It's about hard work, dedication and smarts. If you can't get it that way then ole well at least you tried, but how the fuck can they sleep at night knowing they cheated. That's my 2 cents from an ole school cat.
STEVENSKI
Guys like Roy & Toney have always used PE's. It is in their nature & character to cheat & scam their way to victories.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Dec 3 2008, 04:40 PM) [snapback]413938[/snapback]
I'm standing my ground and saying that athletes these days are losing the essence of what it's about. It's about hard work, dedication and smarts.

I hear you man. I guess for me I've just come around to assuming the worst.

Also, just to play devil's advocate for a second, I don't believe steroids really work by themselves (at least I don't think they do, I've never used them). To get maximum effect from them still takes hard work and dedication.
Fitz
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Dec 4 2008, 07:33 AM) [snapback]413936[/snapback]
Count me as somebody who basically just doesn't give a fuck. I prefer guys didn't but my guess is 9/10 do it or have done it. If it bothers you so much I don't see how you can even be a sports fan anymore.


I agree. I think at times, people make too much of a deal about it. People are naive if they think the only ones who do it are the ones that get caught. I don't have anything to back my statement up, but I too suspect that A LOT of fighters have done it. They have the perfect schedule for it, they can clean it out of there system during training and be clean by fight time. Most other sports don't always have that luxury.
I sometimes just make a big deal about it if it's a fighter I dislike like Jones Jr and just to work people up, but deep down inside I would prefer if they didn't do it, but it happens and I don't hold it against fighters too much.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 3 2008, 04:34 PM) [snapback]413953[/snapback]
I agree. I think at times, people make too much of a deal about it. People are naive if they think the only ones who do it are the ones that get caught. I don't have anything to back my statement up, but I too suspect that A LOT of fighters have done it. They have the perfect schedule for it, they can clean it out of there system during training and be clean by fight time. Most other sports don't always have that luxury.
I sometimes just make a big deal about it if it's a fighter I dislike like Jones Jr and just to work people up, but deep down inside I would prefer if they didn't do it, but it happens and I don't hold it against fighters too much.


Aw man, what is the world coming to? Whatever happened to good ole fashioned vegetables, supplements, road work, bagg work etc.? This is the hurt business and it is unfair if one athlete has an illegal disadvantage over the other. I can't remember the fighters name but he died in the ring a few years back after his opponent stuffed his gloves with metal. It's the same thing here because one person has a dangerous advantage over the other one in a business of hurt or be hurt.
Douchebag
I know I'm in the minority, but I say let them all juice or give them the option to do it openly. The fights will be more exciting.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Dec 3 2008, 05:50 PM) [snapback]413956[/snapback]
Aw man, what is the world coming to? Whatever happened to good ole fashioned vegetables, supplements, road work, bagg work etc.? This is the hurt business and it is unfair if one athlete has an illegal disadvantage over the other. I can't remember the fighters name but he died in the ring a few years back after his opponent stuffed his gloves with metal. It's the same thing here because one person has a dangerous advantage over the other one in a business of hurt or be hurt.


I agree with your stance and unfortunately at this moment I think it is safe to assume that most of the fighters who compete at the elite level, basically any fighter in the top 10 of a division, use performance enhancers. If that is the case what is a non using fighter supposed to do? Fight at a disadvantage to uphold his honor. The good thinkg about boxing is that hitting your opponent allows you opportunities to beat cheaters unlike in sports such as track and field where the only thing you can do is run and all depends on speed. In boxing however if the guy is using an ilegal substance but the other fighter is slicker or is able to stun him then the cheater will not be able catch him or he will become tentative and his advantage will be nullified. Also , steroids will not allow you to take a better punch.

Still, if these substances do give an unfair advantage that could, and will, make the difference in a lot of fights and that is not fair.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Dec 3 2008, 05:04 PM) [snapback]413960[/snapback]
I agree with your stance and unfortunately at this moment I think it is safe to assume that most of the fighters who compete at the elite level, basically any fighter in the top 10 of a division, use performance enhancers. If that is the case what is a non using fighter supposed to do? Fight at a disadvantage to uphold his honor. The good thinkg about boxing is that hitting your opponent allows you opportunities to beat cheaters unlike in sports such as track and field where the only thing you can do is run and all depends on speed. In boxing however if the guy is using an ilegal substance but the other fighter is slicker or is able to stun him then the cheater will not be able catch him or he will become tentative and his advantage will be nullified. Also , steroids will not allow you to take a better punch.

Still, if these substances do give an unfair advantage that could, and will, make the difference in a lot of fights and that is not fair.



Very good point of view. I still what they're doing is crap but good point of view.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Dec 3 2008, 04:55 PM) [snapback]413958[/snapback]
I know I'm in the minority, but I say let them all juice or give them the option to do it openly. The fights will be more exciting.



This is probably the funniest one yet. Interesting point. Let's make it legal so we can get lots of action, hmm very interesting.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Dec 3 2008, 07:30 PM) [snapback]413968[/snapback]
This is probably the funniest one yet. Interesting point. Let's make it legal so we can get lots of action, hmm very interesting.


iIt wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course some would still be at a disadvantage due to lack of funds to acquire the product but then again, most club fighters are pitted against top prospects on short notice while the prospect has had a REAL training camp with a good trainer while the other guy trains part time while he works at some other job. That's not fair and it's not quite the same thing but still.
King Eugene
You all make some good points and especially MMM. But I'm one of the guys who really dont care either. Cheaters never prosper and is always exposed eventually. No its not right but just cause you take them doesn't automatically mean its going to make you win and at the same time steroids is just like any legal PE meaning you have to still workout in order to make it work.

But isn't this Shane stuff old news though?
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(3King3 @ Dec 3 2008, 10:02 PM) [snapback]413998[/snapback]
You all make some good points and especially MMM. But I'm one of the guys who really dont care either. Cheaters never prosper and is always exposed eventually. No its not right but just cause you take them doesn't automatically mean its going to make you win and at the same time steroids is just like any legal PE meaning you have to still workout in order to make it work.

But isn't this Shane stuff old news though?


I think it is, now it is just official.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Dec 3 2008, 06:50 PM) [snapback]413956[/snapback]
Aw man, what is the world coming to? Whatever happened to good ole fashioned vegetables, supplements, road work, bagg work etc.? This is the hurt business and it is unfair if one athlete has an illegal disadvantage over the other. I can't remember the fighters name but he died in the ring a few years back after his opponent stuffed his gloves with metal. It's the same thing here because one person has a dangerous advantage over the other one in a business of hurt or be hurt.

I'm with ya man..I box too and would never want to cheat my way to the top..They should make another sport called steroid boxing so all the juicers can go there..Shit,if they wanna make their nuts smaller,they can do it legally in roid boxing..Old school guys never juiced and are for the most part tougher and can last longer than these guys of today..
Fitz
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 4 2008, 06:30 PM) [snapback]414029[/snapback]
I'm with ya man..I box too and would never want to cheat my way to the top..They should make another sport called steroid boxing so all the juicers can go there..Shit,if they wanna make their nuts smaller,they can do it legally in roid boxing..Old school guys never juiced and are for the most part tougher and can last longer than these guys of today..


But aren't you a big Evand............oh nevermind.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 4 2008, 03:35 AM) [snapback]414032[/snapback]
But aren't you a big Evand............oh nevermind.

Good idea..
Fitz
Are you autistic?
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 4 2008, 03:45 AM) [snapback]414036[/snapback]
Are you autistic?

I just don't think he did..It's never been proven as a fact and he's never admitted it like Mosley has..When I first heard about it,I'm not gonna lie but it hit me hard..None of ya would ever understand what Holy has done for me and I've never met him..In boxing and in life..

The only thing that disappointed me about him was that he committed adultery and is one the most religious guys in boxing..Him and Post-Ali George Foreman are 2 of the most religious guys to ever step in a ring..They both knew that too when they fought each other which I thought was pretty sweet..

Fitz
Haha. That's excellent.
King Eugene
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 4 2008, 02:35 AM) [snapback]414032[/snapback]
But aren't you a big Evand............oh nevermind.

laugh.gif
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(3King3 @ Dec 4 2008, 04:54 AM) [snapback]414055[/snapback]
laugh.gif

I could bring up Roy since he is your main guy but I won't.. friends.gif
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Fitz @ Dec 4 2008, 03:35 AM) [snapback]414032[/snapback]
But aren't you a big Evand............oh nevermind.

LMAO. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Holyfield was a serious steroid user, and that he was doing it at least as far back as the late 80's when he first made the move up to heavyweight. I remember even hearing rumors about it then. There were rumors about Leonard too when he came back all jacked in the late 80's. No doubt in my mind now he was on it. Same with Roy. I mean, come on, looking back it was obvious.

In boxing, I don't think steroids can really help you the same way they can in other sports. Too much is mental. It's not like track or swimming, where using steroids can directly make you a faster runner or swimmer, or weight lifting where it can directly make you stronger. Steroids can't make you a smarter boxer or teach you better footwork or allow you to take a better shot to the chin or give you the will and heart to get up and keep fighting no matter what adversity you're facing. I'm not saying they don't give fighters certain advantages like being able to train more hours or recovering from injuries faster, but in the end there's so much more that goes into it.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Dec 4 2008, 11:32 AM) [snapback]414108[/snapback]
LMAO. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Holyfield was a serious steroid user, and that he was doing it at least as far back as the late 80's when he first made the move up to heavyweight. I remember even hearing rumors about it then. There were rumors about Leonard too when he came back all jacked in the late 80's. No doubt in my mind now he was on it. Same with Roy. I mean, come on, looking back it was obvious.

In boxing, I don't think steroids can really help you the same way they can in other sports. Too much is mental. It's not like track or swimming, where using steroids can directly make you a faster runner or swimmer, or weight lifting where it can directly make you stronger. Steroids can't make you a smarter boxer or teach you better footwork or allow you to take a better shot to the chin or give you the will and heart to get up and keep fighting no matter what adversity you're facing. I'm not saying they don't give fighters certain advantages like being able to train more hours or recovering from injuries faster, but in the end there's so much more that goes into it.


Absolutely, in boxing there are more factors involved: speed, power, strenght, punch endurance, chin, defense, holding, dirty tactics, and so on, wheras in something like the 100m. track and field race there's only one lement invovled. Speed is everything and if you are juiced you have the advantage and there is nothing you can do it about it. In boxing however if the guy took something that gives him better stamina and spee (let's say) the other guy can say fuck it and just barge in on the inside, pummel his body and break his will. Illegal performance enhancers won't do shit if the will is broken.
D-MARV
EVANDER ON ROIDS... Noooo, get outta here!
JonnyBlaze
Roids don't help boxers..The extra muscle you gain isn't helpful..

Tommy Hearns is a prime example of why you don't need roids..He wasn't big but had long lean muscles..Hearns has mad power too..Guys like Lacy think it's all about the muscles but if he trimmed up he'd find he'd gain more power since he'd be throwing faster punches..
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 4 2008, 04:42 PM) [snapback]414164[/snapback]
Roids don't help boxers..The extra muscle you gain isn't helpful..

Tommy Hearns is a prime example of why you don't need roids..He wasn't big but had long lean muscles..Hearns has mad power too..Guys like Lacy think it's all about the muscles but if he trimmed up he'd find he'd gain more power since he'd be throwing faster punches..


Yeah when we talk about the illegal enhancers these guys use we should stop calling them Roids.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 4 2008, 08:56 AM) [snapback]414056[/snapback]
I could bring up Roy since he is your main guy but I won't.. friends.gif



No problem I will then. Roy is well known for being a drugs cheat & that is the real reason he got silver in Seoul. They knew even then that he was a cheat & a liar.

I always said Shaneo was jacked as well.

Funny how after Balco goes down they all start losing.
HaydelHammer
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Dec 3 2008, 02:47 PM) [snapback]413922[/snapback]
Here I am respecting Shane Mosely and believing he didn't take performance enhancing drugs and today I read an article that he has admitted to taking them. Now, for that he should have to take an extra loss on his record and pay back his purse for that fight. Boxing in my mind is the best sport ever because it is Mano y Mano. It's about putting yourself through rigorous training and coming up with a good game plan. Fuck that cheating shit. Shane, you lost my respect and so does any other dope fiend boxers.

So I ask, what should be the penalty for fighter who use performance enhancing drugs?



as far as shane goes....this is OLD NEWS...were have you been?

and there is already a penalty...license gets suspended and title taken..etc. See James Toney Fat A$$ when he got caught.

I could care less if these fools take roids to be honest with you. It doesn't make you a better fighter imo, you still need skills just like any other sport.

for every already one skilled guy with a "name" that gets caught there are hundreds to THOUSANDS who take roids that absolutely SUCK A$$.



King Eugene
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 4 2008, 03:56 AM) [snapback]414056[/snapback]
I could bring up Roy since he is your main guy but I won't.. friends.gif

Hey you can say what you want to say about him. He and Richard Hall both cheated in that scenario. You dont hear me backing him up do you? You on the other hand thinks Holy does no wrong. I bet you cry everytim he loses dont you?
King Eugene
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Dec 4 2008, 12:21 PM) [snapback]414116[/snapback]
EVANDER ON ROIDS... Noooo, get outta here!

Dang, I just found that out today. I've been bamboozled!
King Eugene
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 4 2008, 06:54 PM) [snapback]414204[/snapback]
No problem I will then. Roy is well known for being a drugs cheat & that is the real reason he got silver in Seoul. They knew even then that he was a cheat & a liar.

I always said Shaneo was jacked as well.

Funny how after Balco goes down they all start losing.

Steven, I dont even pay attention to your Roy bashing anymore. Everyone knows you use to love him until you lost big money on him. And if you didn't then you still felt something cause you put big money on him. LOL
D-MARV
QUOTE(3King3 @ Dec 4 2008, 09:30 PM) [snapback]414223[/snapback]
Steven, I dont even pay attention to your Roy bashing anymore. Everyone knows you use to love him until you lost big money on him. And if you didn't then you still felt something cause you put big money on him. LOL

I truly believe that behind all the harsh words that Stevie spits out about Roy, he has a secret MAN CRUSH... Come on Steve, admit it!
King Eugene
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Dec 4 2008, 10:16 PM) [snapback]414229[/snapback]
I truly believe that behind all the harsh words that Stevie spits out about Roy, he has a secret MAN CRUSH... Come on Steve, admit it!

I was thinking the same thing and I think him and Mundine had a bad secret break up and thats why he talks about him the way he does.

Steven you can talk to us. We are only here to help..............and talk about boxing.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(HaydelHammer @ Dec 4 2008, 06:05 PM) [snapback]414206[/snapback]
as far as shane goes....this is OLD NEWS...were have you been?

and there is already a penalty...license gets suspended and title taken..etc. See James Toney Fat A$$ when he got caught.

I could care less if these fools take roids to be honest with you. It doesn't make you a better fighter imo, you still need skills just like any other sport.

for every already one skilled guy with a "name" that gets caught there are hundreds to THOUSANDS who take roids that absolutely SUCK A$$.


Hey ass crack, I've been on the same planet as you. It just became "Official" a few days ago so that's why I posted this topic. I still believe boxers need to fight off of God given abilities and not drugs. It's my opinion so respect it or kick rocks.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(3King3 @ Dec 4 2008, 10:18 PM) [snapback]414221[/snapback]
Hey you can say what you want to say about him. He and Richard Hall both cheated in that scenario. You dont hear me backing him up do you? You on the other hand thinks Holy does no wrong. I bet you cry everytim he loses dont you?

I never cry unless someone close to me dies..That's it..Roy was caught up using em,Holy has never been proved guilty of using em..Big difference..

Did ya miss my post about me talking about how I thought it was real bad that he committed adultery,especially since he is so religious??Guess not,read up first..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Dec 4 2008, 07:54 PM) [snapback]414204[/snapback]
No problem I will then. Roy is well known for being a drugs cheat & that is the real reason he got silver in Seoul. They knew even then that he was a cheat & a liar.

I always said Shaneo was jacked as well.

Funny how after Balco goes down they all start losing.

hahahaha
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