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Jack 1000
For any comments on the Toney-Oquendo fight.

Jack

Administrator
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Damn nobody else watchin this huh? I guess im the only one sick with a cold and cough tonight. It's not the most entertaining fight, but I got it 39-37 for Toney so far. This fight could go either way though. Oquendo is throwing and holding more, Toney is landing the harder shots.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Dec 13 2008, 10:28 PM) [snapback]416359[/snapback]
Damn nobody else watchin this huh? I guess im the only one sick with a cold and cough tonight. It's not the most entertaining fight, but I got it 39-37 for Toney so far. This fight could go either way though. Oquendo is throwing and holding more, Toney is landing the harder shots.


Not really interested in this one. Waiting for Holt-Hopkins
D-MARV
Hard fight to judge but Oquendo has picked it up the last few rounds.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I agree I think he's taken the last three rounds. I got him up 67-66.
Lil-lightsout
Totally unimpressed with Toney right now.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I got the fight 95-94 for Oquendo right now. There have been many close rounds though. Either way I think there's going to be some bitchin by the loser after the decision. Not many people look impressive against Oquendo either. He's a tough guy to look good against with his style.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Oquendo really took those championship rounds by outworking, outpunching, and even hurting Toney on one occasion. You never know though, the judges have taken fights from him before, and there were some close rounds. I had it 115-112 for Oquendo. Not a great fight, but far from a boring fight. It was better than I expected. Oquendo has always been a pretty good fighter.
Lil-lightsout
Toney wins because of the point deduction.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
There is no way in hell James Toney won that fight. He didn't do enough, and looked old in there. Oquendo always seems to be on the short end of these decisions. Kinda gotta feel for him.
JonnyBlaze
Fres won by 4 rounds..That was a major robbing..Toney sucks real bad these days..He is too fat and slow..I feel bad for my guy Fres..I'll probably hit him up in a few days to let him know how bad this was..This was probably the worst decision of the year..Toney knew he lost too..
Lil-lightsout
As Toney's biggest fan, he looked like shit in there. He could not let his punches go, and is still too overweight. After seeing Klit earlier today, and now Toney, I can clearly see Wlad would destroy Toney with ease. I hate to admit it but it is true, Toney's time has passed. Thanks for the 19 years I seen you fight James, great memories. Please retire.
Imperius3
Round 1: Toney 10-9
Round 2: Toney 10-9
Round 3: Toney 10-9
Round 4: Oquendo 10-9
Round 5: Oquendo 10-9
Round 6: Even 10-10
Round 7: Oquendo 10-9
Round 8: Toney 10-8 (point deduction)
Round 9: Toney 10-9
Round 10: Oquendo 10-9
Round 11: Oquendo 10-9
Round 12: Oquendo 10-9

114-114 for me.

I scored round 6 even. The point deduction hurt Oquendo. It was a very close fight. Oquendo landed more (especially in the championship rounds), and Toney landed the cleaner shots. It was one of those fights.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Dec 14 2008, 12:11 AM) [snapback]416372[/snapback]
As Toney's biggest fan, he looked like shit in there. He could not let his punches go, and is still too overweight. After seeing Klit earlier today, and now Toney, I can clearly see Wlad would destroy Toney with ease. I hate to admit it but it is true, Toney's time has passed. Thanks for the 19 years I seen you fight James, great memories. Please retire.

I agree..I feel for ya too man..I'm a huge Toney fan too..Wlad. would KO Toney..It'd be crazy to see Toney on the ground hurtin for real(not like the balance shot from Roy) but he would possibly be put to sleep for the count against Wlad..

Imperius--Are you blind??How was the fight a draw??Fres landed 50-60+ more shots and controlled mostly every round..Toney could barely even move..Fres by 4..I feel bad he got robbed the way he did again..Fres and Glen Johnson get robbed more than any fighter out there..Fres got robbed against Byrd big time and lost his opportunity to be able to call himself a ex-heavyweight champ..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Dec 14 2008, 12:13 AM) [snapback]416375[/snapback]
Round 1: Toney 10-9
Round 2: Toney 10-9
Round 3: Toney 10-9
Round 4: Oquendo 10-9
Round 5: Oquendo 10-9
Round 6: Even 10-10
Round 7: Oquendo 10-9
Round 8: Toney 10-8 (point deduction)
Round 9: Toney 10-9
Round 10: Oquendo 10-9
Round 11: Oquendo 10-9
Round 12: Oquendo 10-9

114-114 for me.

What a fuckin shitty ass score card..Round 6 even??Round 8--2 points for Toney??A point deduction for a illegal shot doesn't mean you win the round too where as if you knock someone down ya have more of a reason to give someone a 10-8..Who knows what fight you were watching..
Col Reb
Did anyone see Pete Rose's girlfriend ringside? She was smoking hot! Looked like a girl I've seen late at night on Cinemax!
Imperius3
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 13 2008, 10:21 PM) [snapback]416377[/snapback]
What a fuckin shitty ass score card..Round 6 even??Round 8--2 points for Toney??A point deduction for a illegal shot doesn't mean you win the round too where as if you knock someone down ya have more of a reason to give someone a 10-8..Who knows what fight you were watching..


That's how I saw it. Where's your card?
D-MARV
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Dec 13 2008, 11:11 PM) [snapback]416372[/snapback]
As Toney's biggest fan, he looked like shit in there. He could not let his punches go, and is still too overweight. After seeing Klit earlier today, and now Toney, I can clearly see Wlad would destroy Toney with ease. I hate to admit it but it is true, Toney's time has passed. Thanks for the 19 years I seen you fight James, great memories. Please retire.

Well, if it were Tony Thompson, it wouldn't even been close.
D-MARV
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 13 2008, 11:09 PM) [snapback]416371[/snapback]
Fres won by 4 rounds..That was a major robbing..Toney sucks real bad these days..He is too fat and slow..I feel bad for my guy Fres..I'll probably hit him up in a few days to let him know how bad this was..This was probably the worst decision of the year..Toney knew he lost too..

Oquendo won the fight but he didn't impress me either. It needs to be more aggressive. I can see why he always ends up with the short end of the stick (I thought he beat Holyfield too).


Johnny I got one for you... Arrealo KO3 Oquendo. LOL
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Imperius3 @ Dec 14 2008, 12:33 AM) [snapback]416385[/snapback]
That's how I saw it. Where's your card?

My final score was 116-111..

Fres won that round where the point was deducted NO DOUBT,so right there Fres wins by decision on your card..

If ya want a score card here ya go..

1--Toney-10-9
2--Fres--19-19
3--Toney 29-28
4--Fres--38-38
5--Fres--48-47
6--Fres--58-56
7--Fres--68-65
8--Fres--77-74 ----9-9 round
9--Toney--84-86
10--Fres--96-93
11--Fres-106-102
12--Fres-116-111
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Dec 14 2008, 12:43 AM) [snapback]416388[/snapback]
Oquendo won the fight but he didn't impress me either. It needs to be more aggressive. I can see why he always ends up with the short end of the stick (I thought he beat Holyfield too).
Johnny I got one for you... Arrealo KO3 Oquendo. LOL

hahaha,You really love Chris"Man of Blubbler" Arreola..

Imperius3
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 13 2008, 10:46 PM) [snapback]416390[/snapback]
My final score was 116-111..

Fres won that round where the point was deducted NO DOUBT,so right there Fres wins by decision on your card..

If ya want a score card here ya go..

1--Toney-10-9
2--Fres--19-19
3--Toney 29-28
4--Fres--38-38
5--Fres--48-47
6--Fres--58-56
7--Fres--68-65
8--Fres--77-74 ----9-9 round
9--Toney--84-86
10--Fres--96-93
11--Fres-106-102
12--Fres-116-111


I gave Toney round 8 because I thought he won it, not because of the point deduction you putz. In my opinion your scorecard is too wide.

Anyway, it was a close fight with a lot of close rounds, including round 8. I'm not gonna insult anyone who had the fight either way. It was one of those fights.
Douchebag
Toney is my fav fighter all time but he needs to hang them up. He couldn't pull the trigger and I have never seen Toney take so many flush shots in a fight before. The fact that he was fighting a b- fighter a telling sign.............
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Dec 13 2008, 10:41 PM) [snapback]416387[/snapback]
Well, if it were Tony Thompson, it wouldn't even been close.


i think thompson would have got him out of there late...
BGv2.0
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Dec 14 2008, 12:46 AM) [snapback]416390[/snapback]
My final score was 116-111..

Fres won that round where the point was deducted NO DOUBT,so right there Fres wins by decision on your card..

If ya want a score card here ya go..

1--Toney-10-9
2--Fres--19-19
3--Toney 29-28
4--Fres--38-38
5--Fres--48-47
6--Fres--58-56
7--Fres--68-65
8--Fres--77-74 ----9-9 round
9--Toney--84-86
10--Fres--96-93
11--Fres-106-102
12--Fres-116-111


Can't get more dead on than that.....I had it 116-111 as well. Fres got jobbed BIG TIME in this fight.

I've never really been a bigger supporter of calling his past losses robberies because in both the fights with Byrd and Holyfield....he was so gassed and tanked out by the last 3-4 rounds that he was stummbling around like a fish...and it just looked AWFUL.

That was not the case tonight....he took the championship rounds easy and the majority of the fight.....this is the one fight I will agree with public perception.....where he got screwed!

JT....a "throwback" fighter..... rolleyes_anim.gif yeah right.....a true throwback would have flat out said he got his ass kicked on that night and he should have walked over to Fres and put the damn belts on him....lol

BUT...hopefully this will take a little steam out of the JT bandwagon....because even his most hard core fans should not be able to look at that fight and NOT see how shot he is.
Jack 1000
Didn't see this one. What were the official cards?

Jack
BGv2.0
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Dec 14 2008, 03:27 AM) [snapback]416409[/snapback]
Didn't see this one. What were the official cards?

Jack


I might be off on one Toney card.....

115-112 JT
116-111 Fres
115-113 JT (Marty Denkins card)
MarzB
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Dec 14 2008, 02:14 AM) [snapback]416402[/snapback]
Toney is my fav fighter all time but he needs to hang them up. He couldn't pull the trigger and I have never seen Toney take so many flush shots in a fight before. The fact that he was fighting a b- fighter a telling sign.............


Totally agree. He still has the ability to be elusive but he can't counter in combinations. Most of all IMO James Toney's issues presently stem from conditioning issues. Fres won the fight and James knows it too. James has been robbed before but how many decision has James received that he shouldn't have gotten??

As much as I love James skills, he's too damn bullheaded to sit it down and he has "name recognition" where I can see a fight being made with him. I heard James recently say that he wish he took his conditioning more serious but I guess thats all talk considering how he looked last night.

Btw, I agree about Pete Rose's girl.
Big Slim Sweet
James Toney is a shot fighter. It pains me to say that cause he's a living legend and one of my absolute all-time favorites, but it was pretty obvious watching him lumber around the ring last night that his time is gone forever.

And it's not just that his conditioning needs to improve. Sure, it could and should be better, but two years ago his conditioning was just as bad and he was still able to time his counters and throw punches with snap.

I had it 115-112 Fres. I gave James the first three rounds and round 9 and that's it. A better fighter would have stopped James late IMO.

WTF was with him falling out of the ring in round 4? It didn't appear that Fres really pushed or tripped him. Looked like James more or less just collapsed in a heap for a moment. It was embarrassing, and while falling down has nothing to do I suppose with fighting it seemed clear to me that in this case the two went hand in hand. His balance is just terrible.

Yeah he's still tough for an opponent to catch clean, but even that skill - once unparalleled - is starting to slip.

I hope the Goosen's sit down with him and really tell him straight but I doubt they will. He's still one of Dan's biggest cash guys. And even if they did sit down with hm, James would surely just tell them to fuck off or whatever and go find someone else to train and promote him, the way I'm assuming he did with Roach (assuming Roach told him he was shot). He'll be back in the ring, and soon enough he'll get beat up for real in there.

James Toney never did quite achieve what he could have in boxing with his talents but he still managed to have a hall of fame career and become one of boxing's last icons. He'd make a great trainer for a younger fighter but I doubt he has the patience for that. A few years ago he would have been able maybe to make the transition to color commentating but his speech has deteriorated to the point where I can't see that happening anymore either.

He's been one of THE integral figures for me throughout my life as a boxing fan. I'll miss having him around the sport.
D-MARV
Throw Toney in there with Valuev and call it a career!
Jack 1000
I think James Toney is a lot like Bernard Hopkins in terms of the difficulty and controversy in scoring so many of his fights because James is able to rely on street smarts, and some good occasional inside fighting to make rounds always close and to be given that 50/50 crapshoot. I even remember the first 4 rounds of Toney-Holyfield being anywhere from a 3-1 for either guy to a 2-2 split before Toney started killing Holyfield from the 5th to the 9th leading to the painful one-sided fight it became after round 4. Tony always fights in this close, competitive manner, but not enough in a dominant manner. This is why so many of his fights are going to be these 115-113 for either guy to 114-114 draws. This is similar to a lot of Hopkins fights.

The difference is that Toney, even in his prime, was often a lazy bastard who didn't care about conditioning and never reached his full potential because of it. Who knows how good an always in condition Toney would have been? He might have been able to win some of those debatable decisions more in his favor. Hopkins in contrast always seemed to look ready to fight and cares about fighting. Bernard certainly is not the fighter that he once was, but his body doesn't look bad like Toney's often did even in his prime.

Toney's style is most likely going to create controversial decisions. That's just the way he fights.

Jack
STEVENSKI
Put Toney in with Wlad & lets see him get carried off into retirement. I think Toney is a embarrasment to boxing both the shape he is in & the way he carries himself.
King Eugene
Toney wants no part of Wlad. After most fights he calls them out but not last night. Hell that fight was so damn boring I fell asleep from rounds 3-5
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