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Byrd Man
taken from Wiki, so....you know....

QUOTE
Workprint

A workprint has been circulating on the internet recently of John G. Avildsen's "Director's Cut" of Rocky V. The opening credits are a lot different, using a different score. The music in the workprint is extremely different then the final version's music with many of the workprint's soundtrack consisting of Bill Conti's original themes as well as other songs in place of the hip-hop and rap themes in the final cut. Many alternate and deleted scenes exist, such as the same scene's in the final cut, but with different dialogue, as well as cut scenes such as Rocky getting drunk at the bar, Little Marie seen grown up as Rocky predict, a whore, as well as all 'new' street fight with an alternate scene with Mickey's last encouraging words. The copies of the workprint went on sale on Ebay.


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iron_mike
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Dec 31 2008, 08:27 PM) [snapback]418903[/snapback]
taken from Wiki, so....you know....
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Your sig quote is so wrong on at least 75 levels...
Byrd Man
QUOTE(iron_mike @ Dec 31 2008, 10:08 PM) [snapback]418907[/snapback]
Your sig quote is so wrong on at least 75 levels...

laugh.gif
Mean Mister Mustard
This sounds interesting. I think Rocky V is wrongly criticized. Is it any more ridiculous than Rocky IV? No.

There's so many good scenes in that movie; Rocky ignoring his son, just to live through Tommy Gunn, gunn's near breakdown in his first fight with Rocky as his trainer, Gunn blasting a sparring partner in the gym and not realizing why people arer pissed with him, The Duke's harassing phone calls to the Balboas. I mean just classic stuff.
MarzB
IMO this was the worse entry in the Rocky enterprise. I thought it was totally unneeded. I think I, II, III and VI are the ones that make the story complete. IV was only created to capitalize on "GLASNOST" that was occurring at the time in the 80's.

About Rocky V, I remember reading back then that Stallone wrote the ending originally that Rocky would be killed but the studios wanted a "happy" ending.
Spyder
QUOTE(MarzB @ Jan 1 2009, 05:17 PM) [snapback]418943[/snapback]
IMO this was the worse entry in the Rocky enterprise. I thought it was totally unneeded. I think I, II, III and VI are the ones that make the story complete. IV was only created to capitalize on "GLASNOST" that was occurring at the time in the 80's.

About Rocky V, I remember reading back then that Stallone wrote the ending originally that Rocky would be killed but the studios wanted a "happy" ending.

There was a big struggle between Stallone and the producers. Both parties felt completely different about how the movie should go...and the producers won.

Sly was pissed about it for years, which is why we got Rocky Balboa.
Byrd Man
I think also that Rocky V is unfairly maligned.

I like all the films. The fifth one is OBVIOUSLYthe weakest of the six but it's not nearly as bad as many try to make it out to be.

I'd rank them as such:

Rocky 1
Rocky 2
Rocky 3
Rocky 6
Rocky 4
Rocky 5

And I'd even be willing to put them all in order,except switching 6 and 5. 5's obviously the worst, but it was still entertaining and fun in a cheesy way.

BTW: am I the only one that is pissed that Rocky never beat the dogshit out of Paulie?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Jan 1 2009, 07:27 PM) [snapback]418951[/snapback]
I think also that Rocky V is unfairly maligned.

I like all the films. The fifth one is OBVIOUSLYthe weakest of the six but it's not nearly as bad as many try to make it out to be.

I'd rank them as such:

Rocky 1
Rocky 2
Rocky 3
Rocky 6
Rocky 4
Rocky 5

And I'd even be willing to put them all in order,except switching 6 and 5. 5's obviously the worst, but it was still entertaining and fun in a cheesy way.

BTW: am I the only one that is pissed that Rocky never beat the dogshit out of Paulie?


My Rank.

Rocky 4
2
1
3
5
6
Byrd Man
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Jan 1 2009, 07:40 PM) [snapback]418953[/snapback]
My Rank.

Rocky 4
2
1
3
5
6


Someone get this man a straightjacket.
JonnyBlaze
My ranking would go like this
2
3
1
4
6
5

I don't know why ya guys besides lil-lightsout are hating on Rocky 4..I really like it..I thought a lot happened in that one,especially with Apollo dying..I haven't seen 5 in forever and that tells ya a lot cause I just watched all the Rocky's a couple weeks ago when they were all on TV..I had 3 and 6 on dvd but just got all the rest in a box set..

Any of you seen Triumph of the Spirit or The Boxer??I really like both those as movies and I really like the boxing in The Boxer..It was funny to see Teddy Atlas boxing in TotS though..I really wish someone had any footage of him sparring or boxing back in his day..He's one of my all time favorite trainers..
D-MARV
My Rankings:
Rocky 2
Rocky 4
Rocky 3
Rocky 1
Rocky 6
Rocky 5

I thought 4 was classic...
MarzB
I hate on Rocky IV because it was a very deliberate attempt to capitalize on US and SOVIET relations of cooperation at the time. "EVIL EMPIRE" as the Soviet Union was referred to at the time. The story along with Bill Conti's music is what carried the Rocky's along with the training scenes. But surely the boxing could have been improved on and this movie was one of the worse offenders of just having "bad boxing" in it.

The one scene where "Drago" where showing his punching power and they measured it. OMG, people seemed so impressed with that and I'm like "whatever" even then I said that and I was a teenager at the time. The one thing I liked about Rocky 6 outside of the fact that the story was somewhat believable was that the choreographed boxing scenes were worked on with a real boxer and had "some realism" to it.

I've never understood why none of the Rocky's prior ever consulted with a real boxer because as a boxing fan, watching movies like this ( I know it's NOT real, duh)is almost an insult to your intelligence. NO human can sustain that amount of punishment. I personally believe "ROCKY" films is why GATTI was so popular because resembled the same punching bag Stallone was but I digress. The demons Rocky was battling in ROCKY IV were so contrived. Yes he's going to avenge Appolo's death even though Appollo based on the story was a much slicker boxer than ROCKY so he would never have absorbed that amount of punishment from that ROBOT Dolph.

Stallone I think at that time was running thin on ideas about the type of movies he wanted to make so he stuck with the "tried and true". He could have ended at 4 but don't even allow me to dissect 5. Good lord, what a waste.



Byrd Man
Cause Rocky 5 didn't have an ACTUAL boxer in it?

But yeah I get what you're saying.

And I absolutely LOVE all the Rocky films, even 5. I don't dislike 4, I like it a lot. I just ranked the others ahead.

I'd be willing to rank the 4th one as high as 4th and MAYBE 3rd, but not above the 1st two which were and are classics.
BGv2.0
I have collected work prints for many many years.....

For anybody considering getting this, just realize that a "workprint" is often of VERY low quality. Often you will have grainy scenes, inserted dailies with no sound, and 9/10 you will ALWAYS have a timecode ticking somewhere on the screen.

It's not as bad now as it was back in the day, as many films use digital recordings instead of print stock...so many newer workprints look spectacular nowadays.

But just be aware.

Some people have gotten workprints and turned out to be VERY dissapointed with what they got due to not really knowing ahead of time how these prints are often far from perfect.


And just for the record....coolest workprint EVER.....Heavy Metal!
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 2 2009, 01:04 AM) [snapback]418955[/snapback]
Any of you seen Triumph of the Spirit


That is a great movie with big dick Defoe in it. You know that was filmed on location in Auschwitz.
Mean Mister Mustard
I was reading some trivia about Rocky 4. Seems like Stallone wanted the fight scenes between him and Drago to look realistic so he told him the bodyshots should be real. Stallone then chancged his mind when Drago's punchs hurt too much.
Spyder
He mixed it up with Tarver too.
MarzB
I remember there was a site that had some good Rocky trivia but I've lost it.

The arena in Rocky I & II was "said" to be the Spectrum but was actually the old LA Sports Arena. Whats surprising to me about that was the film was filmed in Philly so its obvious for the fight scene they did that in LA.

Most of you guys probably know this but in Rocky II, he's sparring with Roberto Duran. "Stone" was turning him pretty bad and very nimble on his feet. For lack of talking about something better, I'm gonna label my ranking of Rocky boxers or Rocky "wish matches". I'm not counting Tarver or "Mason The Line Dixon" in this evaluation,lol..

Clubber Lang vs. Appollo Creed

Clubber Lang vs. Ivan Drago

1. Appollo

2. Clubber

3. Rocky

4. Tommy Gunn

5. Spider Rico (LOL)

6. Ivan Drago.
Spyder
How do you rank Drago so low even though he killed Apollo?

And Rocky beat DOWN Lang in the rematch...that shit wasn't even close!

I give you Apollo over Lang. Creed/Lang would've looked like Jones/Hall.
Mean Mister Mustard
Gunn-Lang, that would have been a brawl and you know it wouldn't go the distance.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 2 2009, 10:33 AM) [snapback]418989[/snapback]
He mixed it up with Tarver too.



Big fn deal, I would have mixed it up with Tarver too. Did you see the way that he punched against Dawson, he could not have hurt a flyweight. Well maybe he had a little more pop from being so fat for that film, so then I just would have dropped with a bodyshot. Easy work.
Big Slim Sweet
My Rocky rankings:

1) Rocky - This is a flat-out classic, none of the rest come close.
2) Rocky 3 - C'mon, Apollo was everybody's favorite character in the series, right? This was his tale of redemption.
3) Rocky 2 - Good flick, but a little dull in spots.
4) Rocky 4 - Silly but fun. Loved that 'No Easy Way Out' montage in the lamborghini. Hated Apollo dying.
5) Rocky 6 - Not bad. Whatever.
6) Rocky 5 - Whatever.

And YES - Rocky needed to beat Paulie to a pulp. How many ways exactly did this low life fuck things up for him?
MarzB
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 2 2009, 12:42 PM) [snapback]418993[/snapback]
How do you rank Drago so low even though he killed Apollo?

And Rocky beat DOWN Lang in the rematch...that shit wasn't even close!

I give you Apollo over Lang. Creed/Lang would've looked like Jones/Hall.


You're basing it on what happened actually in the movie where I'm looking at their skills within the movie. I've already said theres no way that based on their skills (Appollo the slick boxer) Drago would have killed Appollo but they were exhausted of storylines so that was the angle they went with.

Spider Rico was a joke but I put him there because I saw Drago as a stiff, robotic lummox.
Byrd Man
No love for Union Cane???? lol

some trivia:

* He was played by real-life boxer Michael Williams.
* After the movie was finished the real Micheal Williams was suppose to face Tommy Morrison. The promoters called it "Union Cane vs. Tommy Gunn for real". However, Williams injuried himself and the fight never took place.
Spyder
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Jan 2 2009, 12:10 PM) [snapback]419002[/snapback]
Big fn deal, I would have mixed it up with Tarver too. Did you see the way that he punched against Dawson, he could not have hurt a flyweight. Well maybe he had a little more pop from being so fat for that film, so then I just would have dropped with a bodyshot. Easy work.


lol...Stallone is an actor and a midget, you gotta give him some props when he could just as easily choreographed a fight scene. Apparently Tarver actually dropped Sly... haha

QUOTE(MarzB @ Jan 2 2009, 01:39 PM) [snapback]419013[/snapback]
You're basing it on what happened actually in the movie where I'm looking at their skills within the movie. I've already said theres no way that based on their skills (Appollo the slick boxer) Drago would have killed Appollo but they were exhausted of storylines so that was the angle they went with.

Spider Rico was a joke but I put him there because I saw Drago as a stiff, robotic lummox.

Skillwise, Rocky schooled Lang with basic boxing. It was like Leonard-Duran II...Apollo Creed was a boxing genius, he would've beat that man down for all the trash talking. Like a Roy Jones-Richard Hall type of punishment!

aggressive.gif
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 2 2009, 11:33 AM) [snapback]418989[/snapback]
He mixed it up with Tarver too.

True,quite a few of those punches were for real..It even shows Tarver and Stallone hitting each other for real in the special features to get a good feel for the other guys punches..

You guys are crazy if you think Tarver doesn't have power..The Dawson fight is bad to look at if you're trying to decide if he does..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 2 2009, 06:32 PM) [snapback]419029[/snapback]
You guys are crazy if you think Tarver doesn't have power..The Dawson fight is bad to look at if you're trying to decide if he does..


It's called sarcasm grin.gif

Spyder- Yeah, I def give Stallone some props for taking some real shots, did not know he got dropped though.
FenderDG3
Rocky IV was great because it was a total political commentary on the '80s and I loved it. The "No Way Out" montage, the "Hearts on Fire" montage, and Rocky's speech at the end of the fight with Drago... absolutely priceless!!!! All kidding aside, you guys are right it was an attempt to capitalize on the US/Soviet relations of the late 80s and it was very cheesy. However, I actually liked it a lot. If I had to rank 'em it would go like this:

1. Rocky II- Not as good as the first, but I love the fact that Rocky got some redemption
2. Rocky I- Classic and it won 3 Oscars
3. Rocky IV- See above
4. Rocky VI- Loved the use of HBO PPV graphics and commentators
5. Rocky III- "Prediction.... PAIN!!!" ~ Clubber Lang
6. Rocky V- Easily the worst entry in the series, but not as bad as most people believe.

FYI- One of the two kids the beat-up and steal Rocky Jr.'s jacket is the actor who plays Eric ("E") on Entourage.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Jan 2 2009, 07:51 PM) [snapback]419031[/snapback]
It's called sarcasm grin.gif

Spyder- Yeah, I def give Stallone some props for taking some real shots, did not know he got dropped though.

One thing I will say is that Stallone has been scared this whole time through out the Rocky series of getting hit..He didn't like taking shots..He finally allowed it in Rocky 6 since he wanted to make a new standard for boxing movies..

Daniel Day-Lewis would spar and take beatings while making The Boxer..He once left the gym bleeding from the nose and mouth and came back the next day to spar..Someone attempted to stop him from getting back in the ring that day but he wanted to be the best he could for the movie and make it look and feel as real as possible..DD-L gets mad props from me..He's also one of my favorite actors..

Dafoe gave Teddy Atlas problems while training him for the Truimph of the Spirit movie..Dafoe quit smoking for the movie but when he got extremely frustrated with the boxing cause he thought he looked shitty doing it,started smoking again..Atlas got pissed and somehow boosted his confidence again and got him to stop smoking again and get back in the gym..

Those 3 breakdowns help show ya what kinda people these 3 are and how mentally strong they really are..DD-L,then Stallone,then Dafoe..I'm not gonna type another one up for Will Smith but he is on the same level as DD-L..He was sparring with James Toney and did get dropped but got back up and kept going to prepare him for Ali..DD-L vs. Will Smith would be a awesome fight in a boxing ring..They both look amazing in the ring and both have really good technique..
King Eugene
Rocky 4 and 5 are my favorite. Rocky went straight MMA style on him in 5. Prime example...you cant beat the master. Rocky 4 was just a beast to me. I like 3 as well with good ol clubber but I just liked the story line of 5. You can teach a man a lot but not everything. And I loved Dukes Don King impersonation.
iron_mike
Hmmm I'd have to say...
I
II
V
III
Rocky Balboa
IV

IV will always have a special place in my heart cause it was the 1st one I saw in the theater, but quality wise, I think it was Ring Magazine who said it best-it was a 90 minute MTV music video
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(Byrd Man @ Jan 1 2009, 06:43 PM) [snapback]418954[/snapback]
Someone get this man a straightjacket.



he's obviously a kid of the 80's...lol.. dont get him to hard.... rocky 1 by fare is the best rocky movie... rocky 3 gets my vote as the worst... 3 was cheesy but in reality i like them all...
Spyder
How can you say that Rocky 3 is the worst? It might possibly be the BEST boxing movie of all time!! (as Max Kellerman claimed around 7 years ago.)

You have the double knockdown win over Apollo to start the flick, Rocky's 10 consecutive title defenses, an exhibition match with Thunder Lips, the pre-fight buildup with Clubber Lang, Rocky-Lang I & II...AND the training alliance between Rocky and Apollo! What else could you possibly ask for?! Then they end the film with the start of Rocky-Creed III (unofficially).

That flick is the bees knees!
iron_mike
4. Rocky VI- Loved the use of HBO PPV graphics and commentators


Wasn't this filmed right before shit.....I wanna say Taylor Hopkins II? I know it was filmed before some big deal PPV fight a few years back
MarzB
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 3 2009, 04:25 PM) [snapback]419097[/snapback]
How can you say that Rocky 3 is the worst? It might possibly be the BEST boxing movie of all time!! (as Max Kellerman claimed around 7 years ago.)

You have the double knockdown win over Apollo to start the flick, Rocky's 10 consecutive title defenses, an exhibition match with Thunder Lips, the pre-fight buildup with Clubber Lang, Rocky-Lang I & II...AND the training alliance between Rocky and Apollo! What else could you possibly ask for?! Then they end the film with the start of Rocky-Creed III (unofficially).

That flick is the bees knees!


Totally agree and the dialogue was great. Mr T/Clubber's lines were clasic.

"Ahey WOH-MAN!! I bet you go to bed at night wanting a real man. Why don't you bring your pretty little self to my apartment and I'll show you a real man" laugh.gif

---
Announcer: Clubber do you accept the challenge of a rematch with Rocky Balboa

CL: I reject the challenge because a fighter as predictable as as Balboa is he is no challenge but I'll gladly take pleasure in wupping him again. But this time it won't be quick, I'm going to torture him,slow.

Announcer: What do you think about Rocky being trained by Appollo Creed

CL: I think nothing, one has been to another,lol (something like that).

Paulie had some great lines in that one that I can't recall off the top but Mr T's performance in that was the best of Rocky's competition next to Appollo by far.
------------------------------------

Oh another favorite line of mine (in Rocky II) was..

Mobster: So Rock, what'd you clear in that fight after taxes? You need to invest in condominiums..

Rocky: Ah, I don't use'em LMAO laugh.gif laugh.gif
Spyder
laugh.gif

You know what I'm talking about...that movie was GREAT!
FenderDG3
QUOTE(iron_mike @ Jan 3 2009, 03:15 PM) [snapback]419099[/snapback]
4. Rocky VI- Loved the use of HBO PPV graphics and commentators
Wasn't this filmed right before shit.....I wanna say Taylor Hopkins II? I know it was filmed before some big deal PPV fight a few years back


Yes it was, they waited until after the undercards were done so the crowd would be more full.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 3 2009, 04:25 PM) [snapback]419097[/snapback]
How can you say that Rocky 3 is the worst? It might possibly be the BEST boxing movie of all time!! (as Max Kellerman claimed around 7 years ago.)

You have the double knockdown win over Apollo to start the flick, Rocky's 10 consecutive title defenses, an exhibition match with Thunder Lips, the pre-fight buildup with Clubber Lang, Rocky-Lang I & II...AND the training alliance between Rocky and Apollo! What else could you possibly ask for?! Then they end the film with the start of Rocky-Creed III (unofficially).

That flick is the bees knees!

Best of all time??Nah,I'd go with Cinderella Man over Rocky 3..I bet a lot of you will disagree though..Rocky 3 is mad classic though..Ya also forgot that Mick dies in 3 too..A lot happened in 3..I first thought the exhibition with Hulk was pointless but cool until I found out that boxers vs. wrestlers has happened a couple times in the past..

Carl Weathers is on my top 5 list of best actor/boxers along with Will Smith and Daniel Day Lewis..
Mean Mister Mustard
So wasn't Rocky overrated as a fighter all along? I mean he beats Apollo Creed, ok. Then he beats a couple of tomato cans, Mick said it himself. Gets beat by Lang, avenges it. Gets pummeled by Drago before pulling off a miracle win. That's about it. Why is he considered the ATG heavyweight in the universe the movie takes place in? Is he the best the heavyweights ever produced in the move? Come on.
Spyder
MMM and Fitz...here's the thing with Rocky. Yes he takes a beating, and yes it would probably get stopped...but he never gives up.

That's the point of all the Rocky movies. Don't give up and keep fighting. If you do, then you will never feel like a loser...even if you lose.

Jonnyblaze, you're right...I forgot to mention Mickey's death. Epic event! That allowed Mick to haunt Rocky's punch drunk psyche like Obi Wan! laugh.gif
Byrd Man
By the way here's the one thing that I don't think many people picked up on.

In Rocky 1, Rocky is talking to Gazo. He's talking about how he's taking Paulie's sister out and Gazo's douchebag driver is like "I hear she's retarded" and is talking shit.

So then right before driving off, the driver says "take her to the zoo...I hear retards like the zoo"

So...............fast forward to the beginning of Rocky II and ....THE SUMBITCH TOOK HER TO THE ZOO!!!!!!


The fuck is THAT shit?

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 4 2009, 01:35 AM) [snapback]419136[/snapback]
MMM and Fitz...here's the thing with Rocky. Yes he takes a beating, and yes it would probably get stopped...but he never gives up.

That's the point of all the Rocky movies. Don't give up and keep fighting. If you do, then you will never feel like a loser...even if you lose.

Jonnyblaze, you're right...I forgot to mention Mickey's death. Epic event! That allowed Mick to haunt Rocky's punch drunk psyche like Obi Wan! laugh.gif

It really sucks Mickey died..He was the man!!Only if there were a thousand Mickeys in the world of boxing today training guys..To have a relationship with your trainer the way they had is special and rare to find..I once thought I had one building up to something like that with one of my trainers but he didn't come through for me in the end..He basically told me that he trained me for a long while and he made me the boxer I am today but "every boxer moves on to another trainer and doesn't stay with who he started with.."It's true but in some cases,not true..To find a trainer like Mickey is insanely rare..I like the Star Wars analogy you used too..haha..

I think within the Rocky story,the most changes happened in the third for sure..Rocky learns to BOX in this one for fucks sake..hahaha..We all never saw it coming the first time we saw it..
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Spyder @ Jan 4 2009, 12:35 AM) [snapback]419136[/snapback]
MMM and Fitz...here's the thing with Rocky. Yes he takes a beating, and yes it would probably get stopped...but he never gives up.

That's the point of all the Rocky movies. Don't give up and keep fighting. If you do, then you will never feel like a loser...even if you lose.

Jonnyblaze, you're right...I forgot to mention Mickey's death. Epic event! That allowed Mick to haunt Rocky's punch drunk psyche like Obi Wan! laugh.gif


I agree, I'm not disputing that.

By the way, another funny thing about the 3rd fight is that after Apollo trains Rocky, he is supposed to be loighter and faster. For the rematch against Mr T the announcers say something like "Wow, look at Rocky, he lost weight. He looks like a middleweight." Which is funny because not only does he look the same, but seeing as how he Rocky's physique is all mucle you wonder what he could have lost as weight.
The CEO
Stallone is VERY insecure of his height....he's like 5' 6", 5' 7" in real life.......and he sets his scenes up to try and cover it up....this insecurity is most apparent on two occasions....when he's doin' his final runs with children....and....when Apollo brings Rock back to his gym in the ghetto......those gotta to be the shortest adult extras of all time....outside of Oompa Loompas and The Lollipop Guild....laugh.gif
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