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JLUVBABY
Lennox interview
Big Slim Sweet
Can't tell if your use of the word amazing is facetious or not, but assuming it isn't I agree. I always liked Lennox as a fighter and always liked hearing what he had to say. The stuff he says about Vitali-Peter is dead on, as was the stuff he said about boxing keeping you honest and how Oscar basically got caught lying to himself.
The CEO
Lennox Lewis will be fully appreciated at a later date....like Larry Holmes was/is....

I have no problem with him at all...easily in The Top 10 Heavies of all time....
Snoop
Great interview. My favorite part was about how a kid that gets bitten by a dog will always remember the dog. It's a shame that he doesn't articulate himself as well while doing live commentating on HBO. Maybe it's the whole "live and in public" that gets him.
Lil-lightsout
Pretty good interview. I always liked Lennox, he let his fists do the talking in the ring. I used to love going to his training camps and watching him train in the Poconos(used to live a few miles away).
JonnyBlaze
It sucks Lennox wasn't fully appreciated by everyone when he was champ..To me,he was always in my top 10 of favorite fighters ever..I really liked his style(except when he'd get too cocky and put his hands down after having things going his way)..
BGv2.0
Almost as impressive as his ring dominance was his INSANE ability to never blink during the ENTIRE F'N introductions!

He would stand in his corner just looking across the ring at his opponent and the camera would stay on him for a long time and he never once blinked....camera would pan away nad come back and it would still be the case.

Whenever we wacthed LEwsi fights all of us would try to play the staring game with him during the intro....we would lose! lol
Snoop
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Jan 12 2009, 10:33 PM) [snapback]420002[/snapback]
Almost as impressive as his ring dominance was his INSANE ability to never blink during the ENTIRE F'N introductions!

He would stand in his corner just looking across the ring at his opponent and the camera would stay on him for a long time and he never once blinked....camera would pan away nad come back and it would still be the case.

Whenever we wacthed LEwsi fights all of us would try to play the staring game with him during the intro....we would lose! lol

LOL. WTF? Interesting thing to notice. In some ways it does reflect his persona.
STEVENSKI
I love Len but his smirk before he gets caned by Rahman is priceless really.
Fitz
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jan 13 2009, 09:19 AM) [snapback]420026[/snapback]
I love Len but his smirk before he gets caned by Rahman is priceless really.


+1.

He always made me laugh, there has been a couple of times where he tries to act like some slick flamboyant boxer, but he looks like an oaf. He can't pull it off.
BigG
I never liked Lennox during his reign...but that was a good interview and he is a top 10 Heavyweight ever.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Jan 12 2009, 02:46 PM) [snapback]419989[/snapback]
Lennox Lewis will be fully appreciated at a later date....like Larry Holmes was/is....

I have no problem with him at all...easily in The Top 10 Heavies of all time....


thats why i called lennox amazing... like larry holmes he wont be appreciated until later.. actually i think you are seeing just ow much he is missed... the division is crap.. dont know if he would have beat vitali in a rematch but he still had some good nights left in him i believe...
MarzB
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Jan 12 2009, 07:40 PM) [snapback]420040[/snapback]
I never liked Lennox during his reign...but that was a good interview and he is a top 10 Heavyweight ever.


Ditto but I have MUCH more respect for him now and I did root for him when he faced that russian stiff(I know his name but screw him) and wished they would have let the fight continue to maybe the dudes eye ball would be hanging out now...

Lennox caught a lot of flack because of his size and at times the way he fought. When I didn't understand a lot about the nuances of boxing I hated him because he wouldn't put guys away at times. But looking back at his career he was great.

I definitely believe though that had Tyson NOT gone to prison and stuck with Kevin Rooney and they fought in '93 Tyson would have beaten him.
JonnyBlaze
Why didn't you guys like Lennox when he was champ??Everyone I've ever known that's watched boxing with me has liked Lennox and you guys seem to all not like him..
King Eugene
QUOTE(MarzB @ Jan 12 2009, 11:59 PM) [snapback]420114[/snapback]
I definitely believe though that had Tyson NOT gone to prison and stuck with Kevin Rooney and they fought in '93 Tyson would have beaten him.

I agree 100%

And for the record I hated Lewis after that fight. I onley started back being a fan after he beat the Russian and retired.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 13 2009, 12:02 AM) [snapback]420115[/snapback]
Why didn't you guys like Lennox when he was champ??Everyone I've ever known that's watched boxing with me has liked Lennox and you guys seem to all not like him..


Just some guesses, not my feelings.

1- He was not American, for the American fight fans.
2- He had that arrogance to him.
3- Never seen him with chicks, is he gay?
4- People still wanted Tyson to be the man.
5- Bowe and Holyfield were also around to root for.
6- Was not really that charasmatic.
MarzB
There was a promo he did for HBO with Kevin Kelley that was so gay I recall.

I believe he was drinking tea and ringing a bell asking Kevin questions. I think Kevin was fighting Jesse Benevides. The fact he was British had nothing to do with my dislike, I was a huge Nigel Benn fan. It was "him" and his image.
Big Slim Sweet
I remember that awful promo he did with Kevin Kelley. That certainly didn't help to endear him to the American fanbase.

Lennox and Tyson never would have fought in 1993. Lennox really crashed onto the scene when he destroyed Ruddock on Halloween 1992. Only then would people even have begun entertaining the notion of them fighting. The one realistic time they could have/should have fought other than when they did was in 1996, when Lewis was Tyson's WBC mandatory. Tyson however chose to drop the WBC title and face Holyfield instead for just the WBA belt. Tyson - despite what a lot of posters here like to say - was still a dangerous fighter at that time. Yeah, he'd grown rusty in prison, and he never recaptured that hunger he'd had in the late 80's. But he was no pushover. He was not shot. And Lewis in 1996 was still to a degree a work in progress, being put back together, less than two years removed from being KO'd by McCall. If nothing else the fight would have been a lot more competitive then than it wound up being in 2002.

To Americans, Lewis was the anti-Tyson: Relatively soft-spoken, sophisticated, cautious in the ring. I believe that was about 90% of the reason he was so hated here. American fight fans had not yet begun to let go of the image of a dominant Mike returning to his former savage glory. No one here was trying to see Lewis at the top of the mountain.

It's true that at the time Lennox had a reputation for not putting guys away as emphatically as he should, but when you look back at his career - particularly in contrast to the Klitschko's - he was in fact a tremendous finisher. People always talk about the Tua fight but that was his only real lemon where he opted for the decision over putting away a wounded duck. Look at what he did to Golota, Ruddock, Bruno, Morrison, Grant, Briggs, Botha, etc. When Lennox tells Percy that he would have knocked out Sam Peter or Hasim Rahman instead of just bludgeoning them into submission the way Vitali and Wlad did, he's 100% right.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 12 2009, 11:02 PM) [snapback]420115[/snapback]
Why didn't you guys like Lennox when he was champ??Everyone I've ever known that's watched boxing with me has liked Lennox and you guys seem to all not like him..


lennox lewis is saddly in the same position larry holmes was in back in the 80's.. larry holmes followed i guess you can say in the shadow of ali who was by that time a very beloved sports figure and thats who the people liked (peoples champ)... same with lewis and also holyfield.. they came at a time when public fascination was still in tysons favor and that actually lasted way longer than it should have into the 2000's far after his prime was over... thats just how life is... that is going to be the problem with lewis's lasting legacy... that and also the fact that for no reason of his own he didnt test his skills against tyson or holyfield or (even bowe that he never fought as a pro who at one point even though he didnt have a belt could have easily been the best heavyweight on the planet) sooner in his career... that is no fault of his own let me make that clear... my point is this, is lennox as good as we would like to think he is?... by time he fought holyfield, holyfield was considered washed up then and deff. past his prime... lennox deserved the first fight but he did not deserve that 2nd fight?.. i dont think so... he fought tyson when tyson was fighting for the money not for the legacy, his prime was over actually i think after the spinks fight, but point is it was a win over tyson the name but not the tyson that we know of as a killer, people seem to forget tyson was on anti depressants for that fight and they took him off them the week of the fight... not an excuse but at the same time its not a true berometer of how that fight would have played out with both men at their best... vitali klitschko had some unanswered questions that needed to be settled but never where... last but not least he was the recipient of two one punch knockouts against much lesser opposition... i think that sums up why lennox may not be fully appreciated.. that said i will say again i dont recall him ducking anybody and when he fought tyson and holyfield is not his fault that the fights took longer to take place than they should have... i think public perception will say that those fights took place too late in his career as his primes did not cross with theirs making it hard to really gauge what he really had vs. them... but i think the holyfield fights show that in his prime he was capable of giving lewis a beating... group all that together and you have your answer in my opinion... that and lewis was notorious for smack talking about getting the best of two past prime fighters that where loved by the general public...
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 13 2009, 05:02 AM) [snapback]420115[/snapback]
Why didn't you guys like Lennox when he was champ??Everyone I've ever known that's watched boxing with me has liked Lennox and you guys seem to all not like him..


I hated Lewis for beating Holyfield but grew to love him as a fighter.

He was witty & articulate & had tons of different accents he would use that cracked me up. He beat everyone he fought. He cleaned out his division leaving no doubt as to who was the man at his weight. He could not have done more as it is not his fault if fighters did not want to fight him.

As for the Tua fight I admire him for taking his stance in that. Tua had a devestating left hook which was his only real weapon so why risk catching one when you can use your advantages to win dominantly.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jan 13 2009, 05:12 PM) [snapback]420175[/snapback]
As for the Tua fight I admire him for taking his stance in that. Tua had a devestating left hook which was his only real weapon so why risk catching one when you can use your advantages to win dominantly.


Very good point. I agree with you, Lennox fought HIS fight to negate Tua's major left hook. If he would have fought Tua's fight and ended up getting KO'd, he would have got ridiculed for fighting a stupid fight.

It is nice to see some intelligent boxing posts from you lately, but make sure to include your off the wall comments too sometimes. Don't go completely soft on us.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Jan 13 2009, 05:48 PM) [snapback]420182[/snapback]
Very good point. I agree with you, Lennox fought HIS fight to negate Tua's major left hook. If he would have fought Tua's fight and ended up getting KO'd, he would have got ridiculed for fighting a stupid fight.

It is nice to see some intelligent boxing posts from you lately, but make sure to include your off the wall comments too sometimes. Don't go completely soft on us.


lennox did his thang and tua didnt show up to fight.. tua had no hunger in that fight...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 13 2009, 07:03 PM) [snapback]420183[/snapback]
lennox did his thang and tua didnt show up to fight.. tua had no hunger in that fight...


I know that fight was while back, but I thought Tua came out strong the first two rounds swinging away, but then after that he kind of just gave up(due to Lewis). So don't you think Lewis is the reason Tua went in his shell and stopped trying? I think Tua had desire coming into the fight initually, but Lewis took it out of him during the fight.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 14 2009, 12:03 AM) [snapback]420183[/snapback]
lennox did his thang and tua didnt show up to fight.. tua had no hunger in that fight...


Tua came to fight but when you have a 240lb metronome knocking your head back you lose heart. Lewis executed the perfect fight plan & considering Tua had a proven chin Lewis jabbed & 1,2'd all night long. Sure he could have pressed the action more but at considerable risk. I think he also wanted to get some rounds under his belt as well.
JLUVBABY
this is for both (lil lightfoot and stevenski) responces... tua has the kind of style that has to keep pushing vs. lennoxs style.. tua would have had a chance in the last round of that fight had he kept triing.. he had the chin to do it.. call it what you want he didnt give himself a chance to win that fight.. he was always one punch away had he tried, he just had to keep pushing puttin on the pressure... best example of what he needed to do was jersey joe walcott vs. rocky marciano... joe had done beat the hell out of the rock but rock kept pushing... you see the outcome, another was all 3 frazier vs ali fights, smae thing tho ali won, those fights showed the resistance can be broken if you keep working on it... this was the same type of fight.. not all fights are won in the first few rounds, so what you down a good fighter gonna keep doing what he gotta do an work or finish the fight knowing he did what he could and left it all in the ring.. yall think tua left everything in the ring?.. i dont... tua clammed it up after a few rounds and it showed where his heart was when everything was on the line... we know he had the chin he went life an death with the prez... who maybe didnt hit quite as hard as lennox but threw some hella punches... when it mattered he didnt do what he needed to do to give himself a chance to win and that was suck it up and either go out like a warrior or get it done... that was for the championship he was supposed to put it all on the line.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jan 13 2009, 06:20 PM) [snapback]420190[/snapback]
Tua came to fight but when you have a 240lb metronome knocking your head back you lose heart. Lewis executed the perfect fight plan & considering Tua had a proven chin Lewis jabbed & 1,2'd all night long. Sure he could have pressed the action more but at considerable risk. I think he also wanted to get some rounds under his belt as well.


i understand what you saying but it was a championship fight.. if tua figured he was out gunned he should have gone for broke... imma say it like this i have more respect for shannon briggs going out on his shield fighting the way he did than i do for tua claming up like he did taking his best chance to win away from himself.. he wasnt gonna out box lennox.. briggs went out and gave it his best chance and it was what it was... tua went out clammed up and got shut out... if you are a puncher you gotta get int here and do what you do best and hope for the best.. it is what it is...
STEVENSKI
The Briggs vs Len fight is one of my favourite Lennox fights because he showed heart & desire in it as did Briggs.
Michigan Assassin
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 13 2009, 07:03 PM) [snapback]420183[/snapback]
lennox did his thang and tua didnt show up to fight.. tua had no hunger in that fight...


But in the interview he saus if he was fighting Peter instead of Vitali and Peter was just standing there he would've definately KO'd him.

But the Tua fight is the same exact scenario with Tua in the role of Peter. LL sure the hell didn't go for any knockout then. Which I don't really have a problem with but this revisionist history of his is annoying as shit.

Yeah he was great but he's retired now. So now he always seems to shit on the Klitschkos. It seems like he is the one that mentions them far more than they mention him nowadays.
STEVENSKI
Shut your gobs. All hail King Lennox!
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Jan 13 2009, 09:08 PM) [snapback]420203[/snapback]
The Briggs vs Len fight is one of my favourite Lennox fights because he showed heart & desire in it as did Briggs.

Me too..It was a real good fight..It's too bad Briggs shot up in weight cause he was best around 220-230..

Tua isn't as great as everyone wishes he was..He had insane power but if ya take away his left hook,he's not a problem..Chris Byrd owned that ass and never got hit with the left hook..Byrd is one of the smartest heavyweights ever I think,he could take away your game like B-Hop can..He'll take away everything,than get at ya..
ROLL DEEP
I've always been a fan of Lennox.


He had ring smarts, skill, power, superb arsenal of techniques and for a dude that big, he was a good overall athlete.




He fought on all comers, defeated EVERYONE he ever faced and had a lenghty reign as champ.





The only things going against him were the 2 KO's he suffered and some people didn't find his style pleasing to watch. I liked his style.....I liked watching him break fighters down and pick his shots, but each to their own....
buford54
Eh...he was great, no doubt about it, but not quite what some people make him out to be.
Mind you, I missed a lot of his early stuff. I got into boxing around the time of Lennox/Holy 2 (I thought Holy edged that one). Then he fought guys like Grant, Tua, Botha, Rahman, and a shop-worn Tyson. He didn't bother fighting the other belt-holders and then he retired after looking terrible against Klitschko.
I hear about his fights with Briggs and how amazing they were. To me, for the last 6-7 years of his career he was fighting bums, using his huge reach advantage, getting KO'd by one of them in the process. He was always arrogant.
I never really liked the guy, and his comments after the Klitschko fight, and to this day, make me not miss him all that much.
I don't hate him, but I'm not upset that he's not still fighting.

If you look at a lot of his wins in light of history (Botha, Rahman, Tyson, Tua, Grant) they really don't impress me. It's not like any of them went on to do anything after Lewis. And I don't buy that Lewis ruined them. Rahman was a never was until he knocked Lenny out cold. Then he went on to lose the rematch, and his next 2 fights. He gained a title by mouthing off, drew against a 900 lb James Toney and lost it to the one man he should have wanted beat, Oleg Maskaev.
Grant went on to lose to everyone, ever. Botha? Tyson was great once, but everyone knew that he was way shot in the Lewis fight. Lewis even had to sue him to force him to fight, because Tyson wanted another 3 tune ups first.
Tua lost to Byrd, drew w/ Rahman, and dropped off the face of the earth.

Maybe his early wins against Jean Chanet for the EBU were unreal, but towards the end he largely coasted. Then to retire after lucking out in a fight he was losing...he pretty much did the same thing that Riddick Bowe had done to him years earlier (ditching the title rather than fighting him).






Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 13 2009, 08:33 PM) [snapback]420193[/snapback]
yall think tua left everything in the ring?.. i dont... tua clammed it up after a few rounds and it showed where his heart was when everything was on the line... we know he had the chin he went life an death with the prez... who maybe didnt hit quite as hard as lennox but threw some hella punches... when it mattered he didnt do what he needed to do to give himself a chance to win and that was suck it up and either go out like a warrior or get it done... that was for the championship he was supposed to put it all on the line.

Tua definitely quit in that fight and you're right it showed where his heart was. In hindsight we learned about the real David Tua that night. He did come out winging early though and actually smacked Lennox pretty good right at the end of the 2nd.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jan 14 2009, 01:30 PM) [snapback]420304[/snapback]
Then to retire after lucking out in a fight he was losing...he pretty much did the same thing that Riddick Bowe had done to him years earlier (ditching the title rather than fighting him).

What Lennox did to Vitali and what Bowe did to Lennox were not even remotely similar situations. Dude Lennox was old and no longer properly motivated. He was smart to retire. He already beat Vitali LEGITIMATELY and didn't owe him shit.

Bowe on the other hand was in the prime of his career and threw his title in a fucking trash can versus facing Lewis (who, by the way, had straight thrashed him a few years earlier in the 88 Olympics). Bowe didn't even attempt to offer a single legitimate excuse. He went on to fight two 40+ year olds instead. What he did was fucking pathetic and cowardly. And I like Bowe, I'm just calling it what it was.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Jan 14 2009, 05:35 PM) [snapback]420329[/snapback]
What Lennox did to Vitali and what Bowe did to Lennox were not even remotely similar situations. Dude Lennox was old and no longer properly motivated. He was smart to retire. He already beat Vitali LEGITIMATELY and didn't owe him shit.

Bowe on the other hand was in the prime of his career and threw his title in a fucking trash can versus facing Lewis (who, by the way, had straight thrashed him a few years earlier in the 88 Olympics). Bowe didn't even attempt to offer a single legitimate excuse. He went on to fight two 40+ year olds instead. What he did was fucking pathetic and cowardly. And I like Bowe, I'm just calling it what it was.

I think Lennox retired at a good time..He got lucky he cut Vitali otherwise he was soon to be going down(Lennox was dead tired and whether or not Vitali was,he had the heart to fight through fatigue)..Lennox tried to fight through his fatigue but was very flat footed and was really awkward when he'd move around the ring..He looked like every bit of energy was drained out of him like Mike Mollo did against Andrew Golota..Vitali wanted to go on in the fight but the doc. had to stop it..Shit,Vitali is INSANE for fighting with that cut..

Bowe is a major pussy for backing out of a fight with Lennox and showed he never wanted piece of him even when he acted like he did(I believe this happened after one of the Holy/Bowe fights)..Bowe talked shit to Lennox who was ringside and Lennox basically told him to knuckle up and Bowe was saying he wanted to..When the fight was about to happen,Bowe pussed out and threw the belt in the garbage..I really wonder if Bowe felt like he was being cool doing that or not cause he was acting like he was when he did it..
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 14 2009, 09:13 PM) [snapback]420364[/snapback]
I think Lennox retired at a good time..He got lucky he cut Vitali otherwise he was soon to be going down(Lennox was dead tired and whether or not Vitali was,he had the heart to fight through fatigue)..Lennox tried to fight through his fatigue but was very flat footed and was really awkward when he'd move around the ring..He looked like every bit of energy was drained out of him like Mike Mollo did against Andrew Golota..Vitali wanted to go on in the fight but the doc. had to stop it..Shit,Vitali is INSANE for fighting with that cut..

Bowe is a major pussy for backing out of a fight with Lennox and showed he never wanted piece of him even when he acted like he did(I believe this happened after one of the Holy/Bowe fights)..Bowe talked shit to Lennox who was ringside and Lennox basically told him to knuckle up and Bowe was saying he wanted to..When the fight was about to happen,Bowe pussed out and threw the belt in the garbage..I really wonder if Bowe felt like he was being cool doing that or not cause he was acting like he was when he did it..


i think the bowe people thought that would make him look cool while in turn ducking away from the fight... that is one fight that should have been made during the early 90's that never happened... thing is i thought bowe could have beaten lewis back then.. i could be wrong but i thought he could.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 15 2009, 01:06 AM) [snapback]420376[/snapback]
i think the bowe people thought that would make him look cool while in turn ducking away from the fight... that is one fight that should have been made during the early 90's that never happened... thing is i thought bowe could have beaten lewis back then.. i could be wrong but i thought he could.

Bowe had been scared of Lewis since the Olympics if ya ask me..I think after that fight,he never wanted to be in the ring with him again..He felt the power of a 215-220 lb. Lewis and I doubt he wanted to see what it felt like to get him by him at 250(my favorite weight for Lennox)..He went from looking kinda skinny at 220 to looking like king kong at 250..I bet Bowe was shook as hell when Lennox got brought up..

We as fans got cheated out of a really awesome fight either way..If you have such a huge mental edge over someone,you got their number in the ring..B-Hop is the master of this and even though Lennox did this also,he was more under the radar about it I think like George Foreman in his comeback..
BGv2.0
QUOTE(Michigan Assassin @ Jan 13 2009, 09:39 PM) [snapback]420206[/snapback]
But in the interview he saus if he was fighting Peter instead of Vitali and Peter was just standing there he would've definately KO'd him.

But the Tua fight is the same exact scenario with Tua in the role of Peter. LL sure the hell didn't go for any knockout then. Which I don't really have a problem with but this revisionist history of his is annoying as shit.

Yeah he was great but he's retired now. So now he always seems to shit on the Klitschkos. It seems like he is the one that mentions them far more than they mention him nowadays.



No....it is not the same exact senario. Tua had displayed a MUCH better chin and ability to take punches as opposed to Peter. Also, Tua had shown on more than one occasion the ability to come from behind and get the stoppage.....as he did with Oleg.

Peter's chin has at times shown to be less than steller.

There is ZERO doubt in my mind that fighting Tua and fighting Peter are NOT one in the same.

He shits on Vitali.....he usually has nothing but good things to say about Wlad. And I don't blame him, How many years and still today do you hear Vitali piss and moan about a second chance?

He had his shot, he came up short....he should have let it go once Lewis officially retired.....but he kept asking for a rematch. If I were Lewis I'd dislike him too and make sure to ALWAYS point out his short comings.

I like Wlad....but Vitali seems to me like a grade a, first degree ASSHOLE! I enjoy Lewis talking shit about him....and there is nothing he can do about it but take it and continue to cry about a rematch! lol

jlupi
I was never a big fan of his. He certainly was talented and his size helped. I saw his defensive style as somewhat boring. He was KOd by journeymen, in a fair # of stinkers. to me he wasnt much diff than the klit bros.

His best fights were mercer (whitch at the time I thaught he lost) , ruddock and golata. He only gets half credit for a faded holy and a washed up tyson.
jlupi
Bowe on the other hand was in the prime of his career and threw his title in a fucking trash can versus facing Lewis (who, by the way, had straight thrashed him a few years earlier in the 88 Olympics). Bowe didn't even attempt to offer a single legitimate excuse. He went on to fight two 40+ year olds instead. What he did was fucking pathetic and cowardly. And I like Bowe, I'm just calling it what it was.

>>>>

I liked Bowe at his best but It was pathetic.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jan 14 2009, 01:30 PM) [snapback]420304[/snapback]
Eh...he was great, no doubt about it, but not quite what some people make him out to be.
Mind you, I missed a lot of his early stuff. I got into boxing around the time of Lennox/Holy 2 (I thought Holy edged that one). Then he fought guys like Grant, Tua, Botha, Rahman, and a shop-worn Tyson. He didn't bother fighting the other belt-holders and then he retired after looking terrible against Klitschko.
I hear about his fights with Briggs and how amazing they were. To me, for the last 6-7 years of his career he was fighting bums, using his huge reach advantage, getting KO'd by one of them in the process. He was always arrogant.
I never really liked the guy, and his comments after the Klitschko fight, and to this day, make me not miss him all that much.
I don't hate him, but I'm not upset that he's not still fighting.

If you look at a lot of his wins in light of history (Botha, Rahman, Tyson, Tua, Grant) they really don't impress me. It's not like any of them went on to do anything after Lewis. And I don't buy that Lewis ruined them. Rahman was a never was until he knocked Lenny out cold. Then he went on to lose the rematch, and his next 2 fights. He gained a title by mouthing off, drew against a 900 lb James Toney and lost it to the one man he should have wanted beat, Oleg Maskaev.
Grant went on to lose to everyone, ever. Botha? Tyson was great once, but everyone knew that he was way shot in the Lewis fight. Lewis even had to sue him to force him to fight, because Tyson wanted another 3 tune ups first.
Tua lost to Byrd, drew w/ Rahman, and dropped off the face of the earth.

Maybe his early wins against Jean Chanet for the EBU were unreal, but towards the end he largely coasted. Then to retire after lucking out in a fight he was losing...he pretty much did the same thing that Riddick Bowe had done to him years earlier (ditching the title rather than fighting him).


Honestly....if you did not even begin to watch Lewis until the second Holy fight.....you missed the bulk of the man's career.

The guys you call "bums".....were all that were there at the moment. And calling Rahman a bum is crazy. The guy is a multiple HW champion that has been in the ring with the likes of Wlad, Holy, Lewis and actually beat Lewis. Rahman may not have been the best HW to ever step in the ring.....but to call him a "bum" is simply incorrect.

And as for the "shop worn" Tyson....Mike had his chance MANY years prior when Lennox was his mandatory....and instead chose to pay him step aside money.....so IMHO you cannot blame Lewis for fighting Mike when he did....that was Mike's doing. I myself don't think it would have mattered though, as I think it would have been the same fight at either time....maybe a little more competitive....but still ending with a Lewis victory.

I'm curious as to if that string of victories does not impress you.....does the current Champion's resume with that same bunch do the job? Skipping out on Rahman 5x, and never even fighting the other 4 although being active when they were still as well?

I think this line says it all....."I never really liked the guy".

And that's what it comes down to.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 13 2009, 08:03 PM) [snapback]420183[/snapback]
lennox did his thang and tua didnt show up to fight.. tua had no hunger in that fight...


Go back and rewatch that fight. Tua showed up just fine was having no problems UNTIL he ate the first hard overhand right early in the fight......he wanted no part of that shit the rest of the way.
BGv2.0
QUOTE(jlupi @ Jan 15 2009, 02:09 PM) [snapback]420419[/snapback]
I was never a big fan of his. He certainly was talented and his size helped. I saw his defensive style as somewhat boring. He was KOd by journeymen, in a fair # of stinkers. to me he wasnt much diff than the klit bros.

His best fights were mercer (whitch at the time I thaught he lost) , ruddock and golata. He only gets half credit for a faded holy and a washed up tyson.


I never have argreed with the whole "fair number of stinkers" idea. I've heard that many times. But I followed the guys career from early on and along with those 3 you mentioned there were other really good fights as well.

Lewis/Bruno and Lewis/Tucker, Lewis/Briggs were very good fights which had back and forth action.

And waching him dispose of guys like Biggs/Butler/Jackson and Morrison were impressive as well.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 14 2009, 11:13 PM) [snapback]420364[/snapback]
Bowe is a major pussy for backing out of a fight with Lennox and showed he never wanted piece of him even when he acted like he did(I believe this happened after one of the Holy/Bowe fights)..Bowe talked shit to Lennox who was ringside and Lennox basically told him to knuckle up and Bowe was saying he wanted to..When the fight was about to happen,Bowe pussed out and threw the belt in the garbage..I really wonder if Bowe felt like he was being cool doing that or not cause he was acting like he was when he did it..


QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Jan 15 2009, 01:06 AM) [snapback]420376[/snapback]
i think the bowe people thought that would make him look cool while in turn ducking away from the fight... that is one fight that should have been made during the early 90's that never happened... thing is i thought bowe could have beaten lewis back then.. i could be wrong but i thought he could.


QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 15 2009, 01:14 AM) [snapback]420379[/snapback]
We as fans got cheated out of a really awesome fight either way..If you have such a huge mental edge over someone,you got their number in the ring..B-Hop is the master of this and even though Lennox did this also,he was more under the radar about it I think like George Foreman in his comeback..

It was after the first Bowe-Holyfield fight. Bowe came up to Lewis at ringside and started talking shit. I got into a debate with some guys on this board a few years back and ended up rewatching the incident and quoting the dialogue between them. Basically Bowe said he wasn't afraid of Lennox and that Razor Ruddock had been. Lennox came back and said he was going to knock Bowe out and Bowe started saying 'Then do it then. Do it." Read between the lines of these comments and it certainly appeared to me at least that Bowe was intimidated by Lennox.

Bowe definitley thought throwing the belt in the trash was a cool thing to do and that it would cover his true intentions. Kind of like the smart-ass on the playground growing up who makes more and more jokes when he's being called out instead of actually fighting. He keeps 'winning the moment' so to speak but never actually backs up his words with real action.

JLuv, back in those says I thought Bowe would knock LL out if they fought too. But I know better now. Like Blaze said, Bowe was scared of Lennox and that mental edge LL had on him would have spelled doom for Riddick. Especially considering that the key to Bowe winning would have been to make it an inside fight. Had he fought scared, which he would have, he would have just stayed on the outside and gotten gradually tore up.

But as fans, we definitely were cheated out of that fight. It would have been such an important fight at that time for the heavyweight division. But Bowe - and Rock Newman esoecially - knew what was up.
BGv2.0
All anybody has to do is go back and watch the Bowe/Lewis AMA fight to see what more likely than not would have taken place.

If you can shake Bowe at a much lighter weight thru headgear.....there is a pretty good chance that at 230+ without head gear....you will have success.

But it is a shame we don't have it written in stone.....it would have been a nice fight.
buford54
QUOTE(BGv2.0 @ Jan 15 2009, 01:19 PM) [snapback]420423[/snapback]
Honestly....if you did not even begin to watch Lewis until the second Holy fight.....you missed the bulk of the man's career.

The guys you call "bums".....were all that were there at the moment. And calling Rahman a bum is crazy. The guy is a multiple HW champion that has been in the ring with the likes of Wlad, Holy, Lewis and actually beat Lewis. Rahman may not have been the best HW to ever step in the ring.....but to call him a "bum" is simply incorrect.

And as for the "shop worn" Tyson....Mike had his chance MANY years prior when Lennox was his mandatory....and instead chose to pay him step aside money.....so IMHO you cannot blame Lewis for fighting Mike when he did....that was Mike's doing. I myself don't think it would have mattered though, as I think it would have been the same fight at either time....maybe a little more competitive....but still ending with a Lewis victory.

I'm curious as to if that string of victories does not impress you.....does the current Champion's resume with that same bunch do the job? Skipping out on Rahman 5x, and never even fighting the other 4 although being active when they were still as well?

I think this line says it all....."I never really liked the guy".

And that's what it comes down to.


I completely understand all of your points. I think we're looking at the same thing from opposite perspectives.
Maybe bum is too harsh a word for Rahman. Maybe a "waste of talent?" Other than his 1 win over Lewis, in which Lewis was obviously out of shape, who did he beat? Nobody. He lost to Maskaev, Tua, Lewis (rematch), Holyfield, Ruiz, Maskaev and Klitschko. His highlights in the interim were his draw w/ Toney, and his near loss to Al "Ice" Cole. That's not a world-beater, to me.

He was a 2x champ because Lewis decided not to train for their first fight, and he picked up a belt that Vitali left on the ground. He won a "non-fight" over Monte Barrett for a vacant title. That's why I hate the whole "2X World Champ" thing, because it doesn't factor in who the man beat.

While some blame rests on Mike...many people pay mandatories step aside money when there is a bigger fight available and don't get criticized. Who was Lennox Lewis when Mike was in his prime? I'm sure his name wasn't so big then.

Mike had fought twice in 2 years, with his latest win coming over "The Danish Pastry" Brian Nielsen. He said he wanted 2 or 3 more fights before fighting Lennox. I forget the details of how Lennox forced the fight, but I believe it involved the court room, and he definitely capitalized on Mike's rust.

I don't give the new champions any more credit than I give Lennox. They are beating the same bums that Lennox beat. The whole division stinks, by and large. Lennox ruled over a crappy division, and now the Klitschko's do. But to your point, Lennox never did fight Ruiz or Wlad, who were active champs while he was as well.
One difference is that other than his fight w/ Lennox, Vitali's never been knocked out by a "tune-up."


Ultimately, you're right, I don't really like Lennox, and I never did, so I view him in a negative light. In large part it's because he retired directly after his absolute worst performance, rather than giving Vitali the rematch (that he promised him in the ring) and winning convincingly. Maybe I'll look up some of his early fights and get a new respect for him.





JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 15 2009, 05:46 PM) [snapback]420453[/snapback]
LOL. How many defences has he had? And out of all the names you mention, he lost to every single one of them, and even though he beat Lewis, it was a fluke punch. Bum maybe harsh, but he is mediocre at best.

Well the bulked up Rahman is mediocre at best but the slimmer Rahman who fought Tua the first time and Sanders is was pretty good IMO..Rahman put Tua down in the second fight but wasn't ruled a knock down I believe..Rahman,being very stupid came in the second Tua fight around 260 I think..He was so much better when he was slimmer instead of the extremely slow and flat footed Rahman when he was bulked up..Rahman has always had a great jab too by the way..
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(jlupi @ Jan 15 2009, 06:09 PM) [snapback]420419[/snapback]
to me he wasnt much diff than the klit bros.


Except the fact that he became unified undisputed champion, defeated every man he faced & won a olympic gold medal you are right. Not that these type of things matter. Unlike the vagina brothers Lewis never offered any excuse when he was KO'd except to say that is what happens when you get caught with a big punch.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jan 15 2009, 09:52 PM) [snapback]420456[/snapback]
Mike had fought twice in 2 years, with his latest win coming over "The Danish Pastry" Brian Nielsen. He said he wanted 2 or 3 more fights before fighting Lennox. I forget the details of how Lennox forced the fight, but I believe it involved the court room, and he definitely capitalized on Mike's rust.

I don't give the new champions any more credit than I give Lennox. They are beating the same bums that Lennox beat. The whole division stinks, by and large. Lennox ruled over a crappy division, and now the Klitschko's do. But to your point, Lennox never did fight Ruiz or Wlad, who were active champs while he was as well.
One difference is that other than his fight w/ Lennox, Vitali's never been knocked out by a "tune-up."


Lennox knew time was running out on his career & wanted Mike in a mega PPV fight that the FANS were demanding. Mike knew it was coming & all those years he fought palookas came back to pay him dividends. He had time to train properly for the fight & chose not to. No ones fault but Mike. Mike always needs "2 or 3 more fights" to be ready.

Why would LL fight guys that were given his belts? Lennox was undisputed champion & we all know that. They were no more champions than I am.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(buford54 @ Jan 15 2009, 05:52 PM) [snapback]420456[/snapback]
I completely understand all of your points. I think we're looking at the same thing from opposite perspectives.
Maybe bum is too harsh a word for Rahman. Maybe a "waste of talent?" Other than his 1 win over Lewis, in which Lewis was obviously out of shape, who did he beat? Nobody. He lost to Maskaev, Tua, Lewis (rematch), Holyfield, Ruiz, Maskaev and Klitschko. His highlights in the interim were his draw w/ Toney, and his near loss to Al "Ice" Cole. That's not a world-beater, to me.

While some blame rests on Mike...many people pay mandatories step aside money when there is a bigger fight available and don't get criticized. Who was Lennox Lewis when Mike was in his prime? I'm sure his name wasn't so big then.

Mike had fought twice in 2 years, with his latest win coming over "The Danish Pastry" Brian Nielsen. He said he wanted 2 or 3 more fights before fighting Lennox. I forget the details of how Lennox forced the fight, but I believe it involved the court room, and he definitely capitalized on Mike's rust.

Ultimately, you're right, I don't really like Lennox, and I never did, so I view him in a negative light. In large part it's because he retired directly after his absolute worst performance, rather than giving Vitali the rematch (that he promised him in the ring) and winning convincingly. Maybe I'll look up some of his early fights and get a new respect for him.

Rahman's KO of Corrie Sanders was a good win. Easily the second best of his career. Also, I think almost everyone agrees he deserved the win over Tua in their rematch. Plus the way he lost their first fight was a tough break for him. But by and large Rock was not much more than a mediocre heavyweight.

Who was Lennox Lewis when Mike was in his prime? Well if you're talking about 1988, he was an amateur. If you're talking around the time Tyson paid him $4 million step aside money (while many pay step aside money, not many pay that much), he was universally considered one of the top three heavyweights in the world, whose fights were always aired on HBO. His name was definitely well known (even if not well liked).

I don't really recall the details of how Lennox managed to force Tyson into fighting him by suing him. I remember Tyson had a fight lined up with Ray Mercer that got scrapped, and that Lewis said he thought Mercer would likely beat Mike if they had fought. For years the Lennox fight was dangled like a carrot over Mike's head in post-fight interviews, and every time he said he needed 2-3 more fights, but then wouldn't fight again for another year. The reality is that Mike knew at that point Lennox was going to beat the shit out of him. I'm not sure how a lawsuit forced him into that fight. In that case, why hasn't Margarito sued Mayweather? Or Marquez sued Pacman for his threematch? Doesn't make sense, but I could be wrong.

Also, it's pretty ridiculous to say Lennox owed Vitali a rematch because he promised him one in the ring after the fight. Fighters say shit all the time. What else was he going to say that point? Vitali was acting like an ass so he just said, sure whatever, more or less to pacify him. And that was certainly not LL's worst performance. (I think we can all think of at least two that were worse). Plus he was old. If you turn 38 and suddenly find yourself unable to do the things in the ring you're used to doing, isn't the smart thing to consider maybe you're not the fighter you once were, and that maybe you should think about not fighting anymore before you get yourself seriously hurt?

Buford, you seem like a reasonable guy, so just admit this: You wanted LL to rematch Vitali because you believe Vitali would have KO'd him, and you really, really wanted to see LL get KO'd again.

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