Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Do Commentators with No Boxing Experience Irritate You?
FightHype Community > OTHER HYPE > Archives
Snoop
Last week in the Collazo/Berto fight, Max Kellerman (I'm assuming he's never boxed. Correct me if I'm wrong), made this comment that "boxers, unfortunately hold sometimes". It wasn't so much what he said, but the way he said it, as if fighters shouldn't be allowed to hold. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate wrestling contests in a boxing match (on TV or while sparring), but when it's done strategically, I have no problem with it and even understand why boxers do that. It just made me feel that Kellerman said it in a way that ONLY the audience matters, and it kind of pissed me off, like he was this immature spectator that had no regards for boxer's well-being.

I guess this question is posed more towards the posters who also practice the sweet science but I'm also interested in non-practicing viewers as well.
BigG
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Jan 22 2009, 08:12 PM) [snapback]421449[/snapback]
Last week in the Collazo/Berto fight, Max Kellerman (I'm assuming he's never boxed. Correct me if I'm wrong), made this comment that "boxers, unfortunately hold sometimes". It wasn't so much what he said, but the way he said it, as if fighters shouldn't be allowed to hold. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate wrestling contests in a boxing match (on TV or while sparring), but when it's done strategically, I have no problem with it and even understand why boxers do that. It just made me feel that Kellerman said it in a way that ONLY the audience matters, and it kind of pissed me off, like he was this immature spectator that had no regards for boxer's well-being.

I guess this question is posed more towards the posters who also practice the sweet science but I'm also interested in non-practicing viewers as well.


This is true - Holding is part of the sport.

Although I don't like it when they become like John Ruiz and Ricky Hatton.
Snoop
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Jan 22 2009, 09:30 PM) [snapback]421451[/snapback]
This is true - Holding is part of the sport.

Although I don't like it when they become like John Ruiz and Ricky Hatton.

No I agree with you completely.

It's just the way in which Kellerman said it made him sound like a sniveling little prick that thought boxers are at the disposal of public entertainment.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Jan 22 2009, 03:12 PM) [snapback]421449[/snapback]
Max Kellerman (I'm assuming he's never boxed. Correct me if I'm wrong),



I think he used to train, am not sure if he ever had any amateur fights. You do know he has been around boxing a long time? He used to have his own little boxing show before he was on ESPN FNF's.

He usually does not bother me at all, I think he has a ton of respect for fighters. Though he always has had his favorites(cough...Judah, Cough...Whitaker). I do not remember exactly how he said it on air about holding, so I can not comment on that.

As far as holding, I have no problem with a little of it, especially if you are hurt. Ruiz and Jermaine Taylor in his last fight is the type of holding that pisses me off.
thisneverworks
I agree with you as well snoopnick but I must say that I can't stand Kellerman. I find just about everything he says to be annoying and I think that he is not a good announcer AT ALL. I didn't mind him at ESPN quite as much because I didn't have to listen to him throughout an entire fight.
Snoop
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Jan 22 2009, 10:07 PM) [snapback]421457[/snapback]
I think he used to train, am not sure if he ever had any amateur fights. You do know he has been around boxing a long time? He used to have his own little boxing show before he was on ESPN FNF's.

It doesn't matter how long he's been around boxing, my question is if he's ever been INSIDE the ring.

You can watch crocodile wrestlers for your entire life, but you will NEVER understand what it's like to wrestle an 8 foot crock unless you've personally done it yourself.
Snoop
Also, I hope this doesn't turn out to be, "Is holding okay in boxing?" thread, because that is not the point of my question.
Snoop
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 22 2009, 10:16 PM) [snapback]421461[/snapback]
People with no boxing experience don't irritate me, unless they go on about how they would never quit in the ring and so on. But sometimes they can be knowledgeable than actual boxers. I would prefer to hear opinions from a lot of you posters (who a lot have no boxing experience) over guys that have boxed.

Don't get me wrong, I think commentators that have no boxing experience add an element to the game, that's why you always have a mixed commentating crew of boxing historians, technical analysts, and former fighters. It's when the ones that have never stepped in the ring say shit like, well, what you just said about "never quitting", that irks me.

And I think opinions from both sides are valid. That's why I asked for both.
Snoop
QUOTE(Fitz @ Jan 22 2009, 10:17 PM) [snapback]421463[/snapback]
Yeah I noticed that, I was like, don't turn it into a thread on how you hate Hatton or Ruiz.

Haha. That either. Because I hate Hatton and Ruiz for other reasons besides holding.

Dammit, I'm only fueling the fire.
BigG
To answer your question Snoop, it was kind of irritating..and Lennox said "Holding is part of the sport" right after.

Larry also says some annoying shit too.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Jan 22 2009, 02:12 PM) [snapback]421449[/snapback]
Last week in the Collazo/Berto fight, Max Kellerman (I'm assuming he's never boxed. Correct me if I'm wrong), made this comment that "boxers, unfortunately hold sometimes". It wasn't so much what he said, but the way he said it, as if fighters shouldn't be allowed to hold. Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate wrestling contests in a boxing match (on TV or while sparring), but when it's done strategically, I have no problem with it and even understand why boxers do that. It just made me feel that Kellerman said it in a way that ONLY the audience matters, and it kind of pissed me off, like he was this immature spectator that had no regards for boxer's well-being.

I guess this question is posed more towards the posters who also practice the sweet science but I'm also interested in non-practicing viewers as well.



The only one I have a problem with is old ass Larry Merchant. He has no respect for the sweet science. All he wants is blood and guts. Max Kellerman is knowledgeable but he comes across like he's trying to prove his dick size to the older commentators. All in all, boxers make the best commentators i.e Jones, Foreman, Lennox Lewis etc.
Snoop
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Jan 22 2009, 10:29 PM) [snapback]421466[/snapback]
To answer your question Snoop, it was kind of irritating..and Lennox said "Holding is part of the sport" right after.

Larry also says some annoying shit too.

Yeah I was glad Lennox was there to put his ass in check. Another time I was glad Lennox was on the team was during the Mares/Marchiano fight. Larry and Bob Papa were saying that they couldn't understand why the fight was 12 rounds for some "stupid belt". Lennox chimed in and said, "Well fighters that go 12 rounds get paid more. So that might be a factor."
D-MARV
Lennox cannot go a fight without talking bout how great he was.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Jan 22 2009, 04:31 PM) [snapback]421467[/snapback]
The only one I have a problem with is old ass Larry Merchant. He has no respect for the sweet science. All he wants is blood and guts. Max Kellerman is knowledgeable but he comes across like he's trying to prove his dick size to the older commentators. All in all, boxers make the best commentators i.e Jones, Foreman, Lennox Lewis etc.

I completely agree about Larry Merchant. All he does is bitch about the sport now, at least Max is enthusiastic about boxing. Larry is just too crotchety now.
Snoop
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Jan 22 2009, 10:44 PM) [snapback]421470[/snapback]
Lennox cannot go a fight without talking bout how great he was.

Hmm..I never really got that vibe. I always remember Lampley giving him ball-sucking compliments.
Big Slim Sweet
I don't mind commentators who don't have boxing experience. You can't just hand anybody a mic. You need professional broadcasters heading up the team. Overall, you just need the right balance. I like a current or retired fighter to add some insight the other guys can't as readily see too. But IMO, a broadcast team of say, Roy Jones, George Foreman and Lennox Lewis together would be awful.

What I personally can't stand are announcers with limited knowledge of the sport who just shit on everything. Wally Matthews on Versus to me is the worst. All he does is talk about how the fighters are protected and haven't fought anybody any good before. If you were a potential new fan to the sport who happened to turn the show on and heard all that you'd probably be like, 'What the fuck am I watching this shit for then?' Click.

Ironically, Merchant doesn't bother me this way. He's a crotchety old codger but he'll give props still when they're due. He tells it like it is and doesn't give a fuck how it's perceived. Loved him a few years ago after a show where Margarito and Rafa Marquez both blew guys out in a round or two and Larry during the wrap-up said, "This was junk."

Snoop
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Jan 22 2009, 11:32 PM) [snapback]421481[/snapback]
I don't mind commentators who don't have boxing experience. You can't just hand anybody a mic. You need professional broadcasters heading up the team. Overall, you just need the right balance. I like a current or retired fighter to add some insight the other guys can't as readily see too. But IMO, a broadcast team of say, Roy Jones, George Foreman and Lennox Lewis together would be awful.

What I personally can't stand are announcers with limited knowledge of the sport who just shit on everything. Wally Matthews on Versus to me is the worst. All he does is talk about how the fighters are protected and haven't fought anybody any good before. If you were a potential new fan to the sport who happened to turn the show on and heard all that you'd probably be like, 'What the fuck am I watching this shit for then?' Click.

Ironically, Merchant doesn't bother me this way. He's a crotchety old codger but he'll give props still when they're due. He tells it like it is and doesn't give a fuck how it's perceived. Loved him a few years ago after a show where Margarito and Rafa Marquez both blew guys out in a round or two and Larry during the wrap-up said, "This was junk."

Good post. I should have rephrased the topic by asking if some things that non-experienced commentators make, irritate viewers who have boxed before.
Chi-Town
I echo a lot of you guys' sentiments. I don't have a problem with non-fighters calling fights as long as they don't say things that infer that they could/would do better than the fighter. I have to say though, that guys like Merchant and Lampley who have been sitting right below the ring apron during nearly all of the major fights for the last 30 years are qualified to make some criticisms. Lampley has shocked me on many occasions with his intimate knowledge of what goes on in the ring. From time to time he spouts off things that I would really only expect fighters to know.
Mean Mister Mustard
Teddy Atlas knows about boxing but he often makes comments that irritate me. Usually when the underdog is kicking the favourite's ass Atlas will always make it seem as if the fight is going the way it is because the favourite is not doing what he should do, as opposed to giving the underdog credit.
Chi-Town
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jan 22 2009, 05:37 PM) [snapback]421491[/snapback]
Teddy Atlas knows about boxing but he often makes comments that irritate me. Usually when the underdog is kicking the favourite's ass Atlas will always make it seem as if the fight is going the way it is because the favourite is not doing what he should do, as opposed to giving the underdog credit.



If an underdog is beating a guy that is heavily favored over him, it usually is a case of the favorite not doing what they should...thats why they're the favorite in the first place.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jan 22 2009, 07:37 PM) [snapback]421491[/snapback]
Teddy Atlas knows about boxing but he often makes comments that irritate me. Usually when the underdog is kicking the favourite's ass Atlas will always make it seem as if the fight is going the way it is because the favourite is not doing what he should do, as opposed to giving the underdog credit.

Very true. I think this is a trap a lot of trainers who commentate fall into. Manny Steward's the same way. Always talking about what so-and-so's not doing. I think as trainers they watch the fight and instinctively think about what they would be telling their charge to do differently.
Snoop
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jan 23 2009, 12:37 AM) [snapback]421491[/snapback]
Teddy Atlas knows about boxing but he often makes comments that irritate me. Usually when the underdog is kicking the favourite's ass Atlas will always make it seem as if the fight is going the way it is because the favourite is not doing what he should do, as opposed to giving the underdog credit.

I really like Teddy Atlas. I read his autobiography and that man has been through some shit in his life. He's also on the of the only boxing figures that seems that really cares about the sport, as being a humane industry.

I guess in his defense, most of the time when underdogs win an upset, it IS because the favorite is not doing something or is just passed it. I mean how many times have we said, "Well would so-and-so beat so-and-so had they been in their prime?" Most of the time, the answer is no.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Chi-Town @ Jan 23 2009, 12:25 PM) [snapback]421552[/snapback]
If an underdog is beating a guy that is heavily favored over him, it usually is a case of the favorite not doing what they should...thats why they're the favorite in the first place.


I agree sometimes that is the case, but most of these ESPN favourites are undefeated prospects who aren't really all that good so they aren't always that much better than the underdogs they fight. So you could say that they are about even in the ring.
rusty_trombone
Teddy Atlas is fucking annoying. Sorry, he just is. And he's shit in the corner, I'm sure everyone remembers the Michael Grant meltdown. 'You're lying to yourself....."
stateofthegame
I remember that George Foreman would always have to mention Oscar Delahoya on the broadcast even when Oscar was nowhere to be found.

It was about as annoying as early UFC's when Jeff Blatnik always talked about certain positions and moves to Greco-Roman wrestling. That and one show he kept saying that a guy slapped on a Bar Arm.
stateofthegame
One more thing, Teddy is annoying, but what I can't stand is everytime Terry Smith is on their air he talks down to him. I mean Terry is not the best out there, but he has been on ESPN2 several times and always comes to fight, yet all Teddy does is criticize him.

When Terry fought Kingpin Johnson, Teddy praised everything Johnson was doing. Even though Terry was the one being aggressive he argued that Johnson was the clear winner for countering and his pitty pat punches. Not a big deal I know and it happens that the aggressor loses fights, but the very next week the guy that one in the main event did exactly what Terry did and the opponent did exactly what Johnson did and Teddy was talking about how you can't win a fight that way. I mean the fight was mirror images of each other.

I guess what I am saying is Teddy is not consistent in his criticism and it is based more on who he thinks should win the fight.
JonnyBlaze
I've never liked Kellerman..

Teddy Atlas is the best commentator in my opinion..No one breaks fights down like Teddy does..Snoopnick,I've read his autobiography too and Atlas has been through a lot and always did what was best for his fighters..Atlas is a really good guy and I actually recieved a picture of him autographed with a note to me too when I wrote to him through ESPN..I'd really wanna meet or talk to him..
Byrd Man
Kellerman's the man!
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Jan 24 2009, 01:43 AM) [snapback]421682[/snapback]
I've never liked Kellerman..

Teddy Atlas is the best commentator in my opinion..No one breaks fights down like Teddy does..Snoopnick,I've read his autobiography too and Atlas has been through a lot and always did what was best for his fighters..Atlas is a really good guy and I actually recieved a picture of him autographed with a note to me too when I wrote to him through ESPN..I'd really wanna meet or talk to him..

Hey Blaze, do you want a signed copy of my autobiography? It's entitled, "I'm on ESPN2 & not HBO for a reason"
MarzB
I like Max. He's passionate about the sport and while I don't agree with everything he says, it's clear to see he truly ENJOYS boxing and would watch it at any level or if he wasn't paid to do it. Now contrast that to Merchant who is funny at times but I read somewhere someone making a great point that if the bout isn't a slug fest, he becomes bored with it. I literally hate when he (Merchant) says, "here comes the violence". Whatever. Sadly I think it'll be Merchant and not Max tonight.

To the question at hand I don't think someone has to have boxing experience (as a trainer or boxer) to be an effective announcer but have some knowledge and don't come off so biased. Examples would be.

Barry Tomkins and Al Bernstein. I know Bernstein was a singer but I don't think he's EVER boxed and it's very hard to tell because that guy is VERY knowledgeable about the sport and definitely displays poise during match ups that is rarely shown by a play by play guy. Tomkins is someone I've never understood why HBO got rid of instead of that weedhead Lampley. If Jim Lampley has fans then they're definitely a breed of their own. Its hard to imagine a guy who's seen so many fight could be so ignorant about the sport. He literally makes it very difficult to watch fights on HBO.

Mean Mister Mustard
Al Bernstein is one of the best if not the best. I can't believe they replaced him with Kellerman back in ESPN. Then they want to replaced that bald guy MOratta with Kellerman at Fox and now Merchan is next over at HBO. What is it about Kellerman that he can get a job anywhere he wants?
MarzB
I think Max is all of 35 if not younger so that bodes well for him. But I'd be willing to bet that Max is probably a DAMN good networker and probably knows how to shake the "right hands". Lets not act like Max has zero boxing knowledge. It's not like for instance Jillian Barberie (sp?) who while I think she's hot, I know she knows little about the NFL yet shes on the most popular NFL show for something as insignificant as "the weather chic". Max does bring something to the table.

Another guy I love although he's not a commentator but he knows his boxing is Steve Bunce in the UK. If you're unfamiliar with him he was the guy standing next to 'Nard when 'Nard went on his tirade in the UK last year leading to the buildup of the Calzaghe fight about how cold it was.

Bunce has his own boxing podcast and theres this guys Youtube channel I'm subscribed too where he post ANY and everything related to boxing thats featured on UK television on his channel. One of the shows he post is Steve Bunce's boxing hour.

http://www.setanta.com/UK/Articles/other-s...our/gnid-35529/

Snoop
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Jan 24 2009, 08:14 PM) [snapback]421725[/snapback]
Hey Blaze, do you want a signed copy of my autobiography? It's entitled, "I'm on ESPN2 & not HBO for a reason"

From my understanding based on something I read on this forum, Atlas was actually offered a HBO announcing job and turned it down because he didn't agree with the way HBO called its fights and also liked working closer to up and comers.
Snoop
QUOTE(MarzB @ Jan 24 2009, 09:01 PM) [snapback]421731[/snapback]
Barry Tomkins and Al Bernstein. I know Bernstein was a singer but I don't think he's EVER boxed and it's very hard to tell because that guy is VERY knowledgeable about the sport and definitely displays poise during match ups that is rarely shown by a play by play guy. Tomkins is someone I've never understood why HBO got rid of instead of that weedhead Lampley. If Jim Lampley has fans then they're definitely a breed of their own. Its hard to imagine a guy who's seen so many fight could be so ignorant about the sport. He literally makes it very difficult to watch fights on HBO.

Al Bernstein is P4P the best commentator in the game right now. I have never heard, nor could I imagine, him making obnoxious comments about how a boxer is a bitch for quitting on his stool or is a pussy for holding.

THAT is the only time I get frustrated with commentators that have no experience in boxing. It's like, dude, you go in there and get punched in the face for 12 rounds and tell me if you wouldn't want to hold sometimes.
Snoop
QUOTE(MarzB @ Jan 24 2009, 09:46 PM) [snapback]421736[/snapback]
I think Max is all of 35 if not younger so that bodes well for him. But I'd be willing to bet that Max is probably a DAMN good networker and probably knows how to shake the "right hands". Lets not act like Max has zero boxing knowledge. It's not like for instance Jillian Barberie (sp?) who while I think she's hot, I know she knows little about the NFL yet shes on the most popular NFL show for something as insignificant as "the weather chic". Max does bring something to the table.

Another guy I love although he's not a commentator but he knows his boxing is Steve Bunce in the UK. If you're unfamiliar with him he was the guy standing next to 'Nard when 'Nard went on his tirade in the UK last year leading to the buildup of the Calzaghe fight about how cold it was.

Bunce has his own boxing podcast and theres this guys Youtube channel I'm subscribed too where he post ANY and everything related to boxing thats featured on UK television on his channel. One of the shows he post is Steve Bunce's boxing hour.

http://www.setanta.com/UK/Articles/other-s...our/gnid-35529/

I like Max's passion. He definitely loves the sport and knows it inside and out. It's only when he says things like, "Oh boxers shouldn't do this because it makes the fight boring for our entertainment," is when he irritates me. Don't get me wrong, some fighters hold excessively, run away, or are just too damn idle, but when it's done STRATEGICALLY, I have no problem with it, mostly because I've stepped into that squared circle.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Jan 24 2009, 04:33 PM) [snapback]421740[/snapback]
From my understanding based on something I read on this forum, Atlas was actually offered a HBO announcing job and turned it down because he didn't agree with the way HBO called its fights and also liked working closer to up and comers.

well i don't actually know anything about it. but if that's the case, not only is he annoying, but stupid.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Jan 24 2009, 06:47 PM) [snapback]421752[/snapback]
well i don't actually know anything about it. but if that's the case, not only is he annoying, but stupid.

How??It's not about money or anything to Atlas..He loves boxing..He just wants to be apart of it..Read his book!!
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(snoopnick @ Jan 24 2009, 05:35 PM) [snapback]421741[/snapback]
Al Bernstein is P4P the best commentator in the game right now. I have never heard, nor could I imagine, him making obnoxious comments about how a boxer is a bitch for quitting on his stool or is a pussy for holding.

THAT is the only time I get frustrated with commentators that have no experience in boxing. It's like, dude, you go in there and get punched in the face for 12 rounds and tell me if you wouldn't want to hold sometimes.

I really like Al too..

What about Larry Merchant??hahahahaha..
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Jan 24 2009, 08:14 PM) [snapback]421734[/snapback]
What is it about Kellerman that he can get a job anywhere he wants?


He is jewish & according to the NOI doctrine that Ali preached jews are agents of the devil & they run everything. Scary isn't it.
Lil-lightsout
I really liked Barry Tompkins and Al Bernstein growing up on ESPN, they were a great team.

I hated Sean O' Grady, he was annoying to me. I loved Al Alberts on TNF's, he always made me laugh.
Col Reb
Larry Merchant is the best ever! I'd take him and Lampley all day over any of the experienced fighters. They have the personality that adds an extra dimension to the fight. Of former fighters, Foreman was my favorite. Roy was also good, but I think Lennox is terrible.
Snoop
QUOTE(Col Reb @ Jan 25 2009, 02:48 AM) [snapback]421782[/snapback]
Larry Merchant is the best ever! I'd take him and Lampley all day over any of the experienced fighters. They have the personality that adds an extra dimension to the fight. Of former fighters, Foreman was my favorite. Roy was also good, but I think Lennox is terrible.

Merchant and Lampley definitely knew how to make a fight sound better than it really was. But I appreciate the knowledge of the Showtime crew. They just had the fight analyzed better.

IMO, Roy was the best out of the three. Foreman just said funnyass shit, and Lennox is a terrible commentator. He has good ideas, just doesn't know how to articulate them.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.